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Who wins, Martian or Eternal.

I <3 Ikaris, but no. Martian Manhunter is stronger, the greater telepath, and overall more powerful. Ikaris makes him work for the win but MM will take it.

Criminally underrated

Originally posted by zopzop
I <3 Ikaris, but no. Martian Manhunter is stronger, the greater telepath, and overall more powerful. Ikaris makes him work for the win but MM will take it.
Well, you ARE an Ikaris fan, so that carries some weight. Thanks!

Originally posted by zopzop
I <3 Ikaris, but no. Martian Manhunter is stronger, the greater telepath, and overall more powerful. Ikaris makes him work for the win but MM will take it.

Do you think J'onn is stronger than Namor? I'd place him very near that range of strength imo. I can't see anything cut and dried about MM beating Ikaris and see this as an extremely tough fight for either of them

Even if Ikaris could win the physical confrontation on stamina and have a similar strenght level MM's shapeshifting still gives him an edge over all imo.

The telepathy really throws the rest of the battle off the loop.

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you think J'onn is stronger than Namor? I'd place him very near that range of strength imo. I can't see anything cut and dried about MM beating Ikaris and see this as an extremely tough fight for either of them
Yes, IMHO, MM is stronger than Namor. Just recently AM and Mera couldn't handle MM physically and had to result to weakness exploit to bring him to his senses. Like I said, Ikaris would give MM one hell of a fight, but in the end MM would win.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, IMHO, MM is stronger than Namor. Just recently AM and Mera couldn't handle MM physically and had to result to weakness exploit to bring him to his senses. Like I said, Ikaris would give MM one hell of a fight, but in the end MM would win.
Doesn't Ikaris have the ability to boost his strength? Also, can't his eye beams present a problem here?

No one is stronger than Namor

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, IMHO, MM is stronger than Namor. Just recently AM and Mera couldn't handle MM physically and had to result to weakness exploit to bring him to his senses. Like I said, Ikaris would give MM one hell of a fight, but in the end MM would win.

Namor would be able to hold off Mera and Arthur as well if we're talking about a pure physical confrontation. Namor is one step away from being one of comics super heavyweights... kind of like J'onn.

Don't ever sleep on Namor, because he doesn't really have a horrible record against any particular character, and if he has been beaten with ease, it's come at the hands of a Thanos type powerhouse, or through weakness exploitation.

Either would take this on any given day, because J'onn isn't taking this without being severely injured.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
No one is stronger than Namor



Certainly not Manjobber who got bullied, torched and sodomized by some village folks...

Originally posted by Stoic
Namor would be able to hold off Mera and Arthur as well if we're talking about a pure physical confrontation. Namor is one step away from being one of comics super heavyweights... kind of like J'onn.

Don't ever sleep on Namor, because he doesn't really have a horrible record against any particular character, and if he has been beaten with ease, it's come at the hands of a Thanos type powerhouse, or through weakness exploitation.

Either would take this on any given day, because J'onn isn't taking this without being severely injured.
Excellent postage.

Originally posted by Stoic
Namor would be able to hold off Mera and Arthur as well if we're talking about a pure physical confrontation. Namor is one step away from being one of comics super heavyweights... kind of like J'onn.

Don't ever sleep on Namor, because he doesn't really have a horrible record against any particular character, and if he has been beaten with ease, it's come at the hands of a Thanos type powerhouse, or through weakness exploitation.

Either would take this on any given day, because J'onn isn't taking this without being severely injured.
Namor is not holding off Mera and Arthur at the same time. Each of them individually have given Wonder Woman a hard time in a brawl.

Namor does have respectable super strength and fighting ability but his stamina and durability (especially out of the water) is suspect as phuck. That's what holds him back. MM would maul him physically (and that's not even taking into account MM's more exotic powers).

Ikaris would do much better than Namor vs MM because he can at least counter some of MM's powers.

Originally posted by zopzop
Namor is not holding off Mera and Arthur at the same time.

As long as Mera doesn't opt to use her hydrokinesis, he'd easily replicate and surpass Supes' feat...

Originally posted by zopzop
Namor is not holding off Mera and Arthur at the same time. Each of them individually have given Wonder Woman a hard time in a brawl.

Namor does have respectable super strength and fighting ability but his stamina and durability (especially out of the water) is suspect as phuck. That's what holds him back. MM would maul him physically (and that's not even taking into account MM's more exotic powers).

Ikaris would do much better than Namor vs MM because he can at least counter some of MM's powers.

Namor probably has superior relative physical strength showings in both number and quality compared to Martian Manhunter.

I say relative, because the only thing he can't match, would be Martian Manhunter/Superman/Diana moving the Earth briefly, but he also duked it out with Hyperion, in the same story they referenced him stopping two planets so I don't think that's a deal breaker.

Martian Manhunter's heat vision(?) might seal the deal I guess..

Martian Vision*

Namor has a long history of resisting fiery attacks well and absorbing energy ones... not that it matters, because J'onn is too f*cking dumb most of the time to even remember he can emulate HV with his filthy alien eyes.

Telepathy seals the deal on this one. And MM is strong enough to compete. He aided superman in stopping Brainiac's ship, which was a lot bigger than earth.

^^^Ikaris has TP, too.

Manhunter is on another level unless Ikaris has the Prime Eternal powers.

He probably still has them...

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
X. Retcons/Changes

The Prime Eternal

Hopefully if my beginning post was "loud enough" you would have known that I wanted you to check this section first,

because in my opinion if you do not you will become very confused.

The Eternals have been subject to some retcons and changes in their past. In particular the role of the being who becomes

the Prime Eternal (ruler of the Earthbound Eternals) has frequently changed suit. I will now begin to explain the long

story that is the tale of the Prime Eternals.


As we know being the so called current ruler of the Eternals (back in the 1970's) was Zuras. His rule was unchallenged.

During the events of Thor #300, when the Fourth Host of the Celestials was at the peak of making a judgement, Zuras

created a Uni-Mind with the rest of his Eternals. Minus ones such as Ikaris and Sersi. Zuras was killed in the Uni-Mind

along with many of his kin.

http://i.imgur.com/Vtl1o3N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Cqk8PDh.jpg

Since Zuras has been killed. There currently is no Prime Eternal to lead these great beings onwards. The honour to lead

the Eternals next falls on Thena, daughter of Zuras.

http://i.imgur.com/l6k7txe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/s57IktB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7x3ML0h.jpg

After Thena had been in rule for a while, there were suspicions of foul play by the Prime Eternal herself. As she still

harboured love for the Deviant Kro. In the end Ikaris challenged Thena for the right to be Prime Eternal. With the winner

to be decided in a battle.

http://i.imgur.com/Xk88RUd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eSD9rX2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/z6UTP28.jpg

Ikaris won the battle, he was now officially the Prime Eternal. And with it came abilities such as this. Being able to

form the ritual of the Uni-Mind for example.

http://i.imgur.com/KKIg7Jh.jpg

For a long while in the comics, Ikaris has a 100% sure position, he is the Prime Eternal. Volume 3 is where it

begins to get very weird. As volume 3 is where the huge Retcon for the Eternals come into play, which I will now discuss.

(don't worry the Prime Eternal discussion will still go on, note I will be splitting it into a separate section as to not

clutter).

The Retcon

For many a decade we knew this as the official origin of the Eternals.

http://i.imgur.com/lT2sHp6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c7zoUIL.jpg

Well this was all to change.

Instead of being mere thousands of years old they were retconned into being millions of years old!

http://i.imgur.com/cfBYGSG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wfO4l27.jpg

This is an extreme jump in years to be retconned. You may wonder how it all happened. It all starts with the "child"

Eternal known as Sprite.

In Volume 3 of Eternals, a huge amount of things have changed. Every single Eternal bar Ikaris and Thena(who both could

resist the power to resist what I shall soon explain).

As soon as Volume 3 kicks in most of the Eternals all complteltey forget the past lives (compared to nothing like this

last volume). Here are some images of the people who have forgotten themselves.


Druig

http://i.imgur.com/FP3QXfC.jpg

Makkari

http://i.imgur.com/Xx1Dzt6.jpg

Sersi

http://i.imgur.com/A6Gg3TX.jpg

And most shockingly of all... Zuras (note Ajak is the person next to him)

http://i.imgur.com/uFyntuV.jpg

The Eternal who was supposedly murdered by the Celestials when they formed the Uni-mind has returned somehow. Here is how

it happened.

Here is Sprite explaining it to Makkari. Or rather the still unawakened version of him.

http://i.imgur.com/B5npdAH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GxTenRW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pw6rEEQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KQboSt6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5PBaBYh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U95Qiuc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IzQTw4G.jpg

So Sprite has been casting illusions and warping reality for millions of years. Or rather this is the retcon that

was presented and this is how it was explained. Sprite took Zuras and Ajak and gave them the illusion that they had been

speaking to a Celestial. Sprite organised a Uni-Mind powered by Celestials and used that to warp it into what we face

today.

And there are two other retcons around the Eternals. another thing organised by Sprite.

I will be calling this the Celestial Retcon.

Eternals since thanks to Sprites meddling (or the retcon) are now honour bound to protect the Celestial race. If an

Eternal would attempt to attack a Celestial they would be risking certain death.

http://i.imgur.com/59F1Z09.jpg

And here is a brief set of scans from The Eternals v3 that explains this perfectly. With many of the Eternals offering

explanations. Thena telling Iron Man she can't approach the Celestial. Ikaris mind controlling Hank Pym into not

attacking the Celestial because of this honour bound oath.

http://i.imgur.com/qwmZyQG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pZig4Bb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PwFB2Cm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YpyBX9a.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TlGM1Qh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/q7cx0B5.jpg


Here is the next set of retconns.


Eternals still can't die so to speak. But if they do suffer sufficient enough injury that they do die (i.e the famed

molecular dispersal) they are reassembled by the machine. They can basically be genetically created and rewritten.

http://i.imgur.com/R9TS1cF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2DfWpCS.jpg

As more perfectly described here by Phastos, "a device that perfectly replicates Eternals, then somehow integrates their

conciousness fully intact into their new husk".

http://i.imgur.com/D8zeFFM.jpg

Phastos again states here that without that machine if they die they will be gone for good.

http://i.imgur.com/m8nIM41.jpg


And finally this the quite sad scene when Zuras finds out. As much as Sprite should have paid for his heinous actions. I

can't help but feel it shouldn't have been this way. Sprite also explains what he did a bit more here too.

http://i.imgur.com/oQ5bfgb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UkMrus3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/H35hKUb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yhyrG2e.jpg

Quite sad really. But that is the retcon in it's whole.

Now, back to the Prime Eternal discussion

Back to the Prime Eternal

So as we know already that Ikaris is the Prime Eternal. Then with the advent of Zuras returning back to life. We suddenly

see that Zuras has somehow taken Ikaris's position.

http://i.imgur.com/YyJhbGR.jpg

(this scan is from the Eternals v4 annual)

Without any word mentioned or uttered. This annoyed me quite a bit. Because I thought that Ikaris had done his due by the

Eternals. He had shepherded them through hard times. And that Zuras didn't deserve the right to take up the position of

Prime Eternal. But I then came to these scans as I neared the end of the v4 run of Eternals.

The remaining Eternals are discussing whether Ikaris should remain as the Prime Eternal. When all of a sudden Zuras (the

supposed Prime Eternal again) arrives with the other Eternals. And Ikaris begins the ritual of the Uni-Mind with the

Dreaming Celestial and Zuras openly joins it. Confirming the fact that Ikaris remains the Prime Eternal!

http://i.imgur.com/xwtqCIq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7Hpjfb4.jpg

And you see even now I am confused. Zuras was made the Prime Eternal by a writer. Ikaris then performs the ritual of the

Uni-Mind which is more proof than anything. Specifically as it was in front of Zuras. I tend to believe that Ikaris

remained the Prime Eternal but I would welcome peoples opinions on the matter. I have gave most of my opinion here.



This is the end of my respect thread and I would very much like to thank everyone who reads this.

http://i.imgur.com/Vi7y8xxl.jpg

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Manhunter is on another level unless Ikaris has the Prime Eternal powers.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He probably still has them...
Yeah, i was just throwing that out there, as i remembered the scans being posted in an old thread.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Manhunter is on another level unless Ikaris has the Prime Eternal powers. Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He probably still has them...
We have to be careful with the "Prime Eternal" designation. Originally it meant whoever had the title inherited Zuras' power and was leader of the Eternals. Later writers played fast and loose with this title.

For example, even after the Ghaur Dreaming Celestial arc, some writers still had Thena as leader of the Eternals. When Blastaar 'killed' the Eternals, it was Thena that was their leader not Ikaris (this despite taking place after Ikaris challenged her for leadership and won).
https://s8.postimg.cc/tufajyyup/image.jpg

So unless the writer SPECIFICALLY mentions him as Prime Eternal AND states that he inherited Zuras' power, we shouldn't just assume he has the title and power.

^^^didnt realize the writers had gone that direction. Its something if used should be stipped.

The Green Alien dude.

Originally posted by zopzop
Namor is not holding off Mera and Arthur at the same time. Each of them individually have given Wonder Woman a hard time in a brawl.

Namor does have respectable super strength and fighting ability but his stamina and durability (especially out of the water) is suspect as phuck. That's what holds him back. MM would maul him physically (and that's not even taking into account MM's more exotic powers).

Ikaris would do much better than Namor vs MM because he can at least counter some of MM's powers.

Lol what? Namor's durability is among the most consistent especially against the elite heralds,and he hasn't had a problem worth stamina since way after he dumped his Speedos




Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Martian Vision*

Namor has a long history of resisting fiery attacks well and absorbing energy ones... not that it matters, because J'onn is too f*cking dumb most of the time to even remember he can emulate HV with his filthy alien eyes.


True,his only real low end heat showing is Hyperion recently, prior to that it tooka sustained blast to his spine from three HTs(,one of them Hammond,who dropped hype with one blast) to take down an infected namor.



OT
It depends on the to resistance of ikaris tho,but it can go both ways

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Telepathy seals the deal on this one. And MM is strong enough to compete. He aided superman in stopping Brainiac's ship, which was a lot bigger than earth.


Yeah MMH is great at helping Superman push/lift things Kal can push/lift on his own.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah MMH is great at helping Superman push/lift things Kal can push/lift on his own.

Uhh. Superman needed his help. It was a massive feat.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Uhh. Superman needed his help. It was a massive feat.

In truth all the support MMH was doing was moral.

SMH

Originally posted by Bentley
In truth all the support MMH was doing was moral. The secret is is that he was actually intangible at the time.

Correct. He didn't want to overexert himself, he would die.

Originally posted by Bentley
In truth all the support MMH was doing was moral.

That kind of talk would just make the House of El more arrogant. Don't do it.