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No weapons for Ares, who wins ?

Colossus

Ares

Colossus.

Originally posted by carver9
Ares

DC Ares in a Curb Phuck.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Colossus.



What's wrong with that?

Ares seems a lot stronger than Colossus. I still remember when he knocked out A-Bomb when Loeb Rulk couldn't. Even in his death he did a shit load better than Colossus would have.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
What's wrong with that?

Ares seems a lot stronger than Colossus. I still remember when he knocked out A-Bomb when Loeb Rulk couldn't. Even in his death he did a shit load better than Colossus would have.

He didn't knock him out. He knocked Rick down.

Unless they had some other fight?

His eyes were glazed over looking up and Banner had to hit Ares so he missed Rick's head by a c-hair. When he (finally) got up he was rubbing the back of his head like he was nursing a donkey punch.

The only reason you can say he wasn't fully out was because his eyes were slitted open, but incapacitated enough for Ares to stand on him and swing his axe either way. Plus he was portrayed as seemingly stronger.

Ares

Faillossus will find a way to lose.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
His eyes were glazed over looking up and Banner had to hit Ares so he missed Rick's head by a c-hair. When he (finally) got up he was rubbing the back of his head like he was nursing a donkey punch.

The only reason you can say he wasn't fully out was because his eyes were slitted open, but incapacitated enough for Ares to stand on him and swing his axe either way. Plus he was portrayed as seemingly stronger.

So Ares is nothing without his axe. Gotcha

Seriously though, it's worth noting that Rulk actually fought a feral version of A-Bomb --- Rick in control of... anything, really, is a major downgrade.

It was a nice skill showing of Ares, that's for certain. He also had a nice fight with Herc. Everything else from him was a major disappointment.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So Ares is nothing without his axe. Gotcha

Seriously though, it's worth noting that Rulk actually fought a feral version of A-Bomb --- Rick in control of... anything, really, is a major downgrade.

It was a nice skill showing of Ares, that's for certain. He also had a nice fight with Herc. Everything else from him was a major disappointment. Rick was done before then

Is it though?

A disappointment from a Gods point of view. Colossus wishes he did half the shit Ares has done though.
Every fight he's had with Herc and even his B&T fight with Thor blow Colossus out of the water.

I'm just waiting until somebody brings up Colossus going into a close slugfest with Gladiator.

Ooh no weaps?

Hmm... Ares still.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Rick was done before then

Is it though?

A disappointment from a Gods point of view. Colossus wishes he did half the shit Ares has done though.
Every fight he's had with Herc and even his B&T fight with Thor blow Colossus out of the water.

You got it the other way round. Ares wishes so.

Colossus has done much better than him against Savage and World War Hulk. Remember, Ares got two- and one-shotted.

He's a weak godling whose entire purpose was to remind readers that DC treats Olympians with a much greater respect.

Comics are inconsistent.
Look at young Colossus vs Savage Hulk.
Look at Colossus vs Gladiator
Look at Colossus vs WWH (especially the speech Hulk gives)
Colossus could definitely give Herc a fight (before losing), the same way Thing has given Hulk decent fights and Colossus has done the same.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You got it the other way round. Ares wishes so.

Colossus has done much better than him against Savage and World War Hulk. Remember, Ares got two- and one-shotted.

He's a weak godling whose entire purpose was to remind readers that DC treats Olympians with a much greater respect. He's done better, but that doesn't mean he didn't get two shotted by Savage, then one punched into quicksand, and had his arms folded up and gave up. His fighting skill was played up, but his durability wasn't portrayed as any better.
Plus the WWH issue had everyone getting one shotted by Hulk. Thing, She-Hulk, Doc Samson, Ares. It's really not that bad in the grand scheme of things.

That's fine. Colossus still loses though.

You need to turn off your inner thorbag, Bran. It's like a cancer, I can see it extending to all Asgardians and even Olympians now.

Ares went to sleep, Colossus didn't. If not for Ares' healing factor, he probably would've stayed in a coma forever.

He's not fully bulletproof, uses ineffective weapons that get cut to pieces by bone claws, his hf is not good enough to be a factor on the battlefield... even with the Pr curse, I can't see him beating Colossus.

There IS this feat, where Sentry, WM and Carol Marvel couldn't hold him

https://i.postimg.cc/Wh7qZfN1/b8_UE96i_d.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There IS this feat, where Sentry, WM and Carol Marvel couldn't hold him

https://i.postimg.cc/Wh7qZfN1/b8_UE96i_d.jpg
Immortal Hulk level.


Trans!

Iirc it was stated that sentry/void needed to use a lot of energy to tear Ares in half.

Enough energy that it left him drained enough to eventually lose in the Siege arc.

I don't imagine Sentry ripping Colossus in half would require that much effort.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Iirc it was stated that sentry/void needed to use a lot of energy to tear Ares in half.

Enough energy that it left him drained enough to eventually lose in the Siege arc.

I don't imagine Sentry ripping Colossus in half would require that much effort.

It was in a What if, Cosmic.

Sure, each What if begins its tale by describing the 616 events first and then going into the alternate reality scenario... but it's still questionable, especially when discussing (and overanalyzing) it on battleboards like ours.

From Forum Rules:

With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

It's been done to death, one side shows the Bendis interview, other side shows that dumb What if and we still have no mod ruling on the matter.

PS. Ares is not even fully bulletproof.

Neither is Little Jimmy but He can beat Clodussus with ease.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There IS this feat, where Sentry, WM and Carol Marvel couldn't hold him

https://i.postimg.cc/Wh7qZfN1/b8_UE96i_d.jpg

He was quite promising in the first Mighty Avengers issues, yes.

Remember Tony recruiting him?

1. https://abload.de/img/10zrcr.jpg
2. https://abload.de/img/2o3ocs.jpg
3. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1753404-the_mighty_avengers_01__028.jpg

Ares is WAAAAY stronger than Colossus. He's near Herc level.

Lol, Cyclops made a deal with Hela, for Valkyrie to be empowered, so they could stop Ares. No other X-men had a chance. He said all this, as Colossus was standing to his left.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It was in a What if, Cosmic.

Sure, each What if begins its tale by describing the 616 events first and then going into the alternate reality scenario... but it's still questionable, especially when discussing (and overanalyzing) it on battleboards like ours.

From Forum Rules:

With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

It's been done to death, one side shows the Bendis interview, other side shows that dumb What if and we still have no mod ruling on the matter.

PS. Ares is not even fully bulletproof.

Yeah, I know it was a what if, but as you said it didn't even get to the what if part there. It just described how he lost in canon.

What exactly did Bendis say anyway?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Immortal Hulk level.


Trans!
Oh shit you're right.

Except Sentry is omniversal

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Ares is WAAAAY stronger than Colossus. He's near Herc level.

Lol, Cyclops made a deal with Hela, for Valkyrie to be empowered, so they could stop Ares. No other X-men had a chance. He said all this, as Colossus was standing to his left.

Suuuuure...

He needed super gauntlets just to reach Herc's level

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yeah, I know it was a what if, but as you said it didn't even get to the what if part there. It just described how he lost in canon.

What exactly did Bendis say anyway?

That Reynolds wanted to lose, that's what made it possible for the heroes to beat him.

Allowing What ifs would make one big mess here. Did you know that Wolverine held back because his orders were to capture the Hulk...?

That can still work with the opening statement in the what if.

Sentry wanted to lose so he went overkill on Ares, using way more energy to kill him than he needed to. He could have tentacled thru Ares' skull but opted to tear him in half.

What if usage should be a case by case basis anyway. Not a blanket all or nothing.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
What if usage should be a case by case basis anyway.

Exactly what I was saying. That's why a mod ruling would be nice.

We know that Ares' durability is shit, though. It seems more that the effort of killing a "god" - overpowering his immortality gimmick - can be exhausting. That's why Mjolnir cracked vs. Bor. Of course, barely any writer sees it that way.

Colossus just needs to KTFO Ares here.

Ares just has that stupid nonsensical 'piercing durability' weakness that a lot of bricks are given since writers don't know shit.

He may be pierced by a bullet but he would be totally fine in a building busting explosion (even though shrapnel would be flying everywhere and that would be way worse than a bullet wound).

I just ignore that type of durability oddity for the most part and go by general showings.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Ares just has that stupid nonsensical 'piercing durability' weakness that a lot of bricks are given since writers don't know shit.

He may be pierced by a bullet but he would be totally fine in a building busting explosion (even though shrapnel would be flying everywhere and that would be way worse than a bullet wound).

I just ignore that type of durability oddity for the most part and go by general showings.

Sucks against blunt, too. Hulk destroyed him in what, two panels? Twice.

1. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5527981-0536430407-Savag.jpg
2. https://tinyurl.com/yb2gka2e

~~

1. https://store.donanimhaber.com/8d/51/a5/8D51A53049258A3765CA53F932C8ECB8.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You need to turn off your inner thorbag, Bran. It's like a cancer, I can see it extending to all Asgardians and even Olympians now.

Ares went to sleep, Colossus didn't. If not for Ares' healing factor, he probably would've stayed in a coma forever.

He's not fully bulletproof, uses ineffective weapons that get cut to pieces by bone claws, his hf is not good enough to be a factor on the battlefield... even with the Pr curse, I can't see him beating Colossus. Speaking of which

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bd7d3149078e184623daef4757a2e878-c


Colossus only got slapped with a backfist and hit with a clap that didn't do a while lot besides get the attention of everyone. He wasn't hit enough to say him being awake is a great feat, let alone hit in the same issue where all his rivals were one shotted. What did happen however, is his arms were broken and he laid there like a baby.

No.

He just sucks against Hulk.

Hulk seems to have a soft spot for guys like piotr and ben. He is countless billions of times stronger than both but opts to not kill them with a finger poke.

Iirc Ares even damaged Super God Hercules a little bit in Chaos War. Better than any Colossus feat ever.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Speaking of which

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bd7d3149078e184623daef4757a2e878-c


Colossus only got slapped with a backfist and hit with a clap that didn't do a while lot besides get the attention of everyone. He wasn't hit enough to say him being awake is a great feat, let alone hit in the same issue where all his rivals were one shotted. What did happen however, is his arms were broken and he laid there like a baby.

Nah, he took a punch, too.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No.

He just sucks against Hulk.

Hulk seems to have a soft spot for guys like piotr and ben. He is countless billions of times stronger than both but opts to not kill them with a finger poke.

Iirc Ares even damaged Super God Hercules a little bit in Chaos War. Better than any Colossus feat ever.

And he doesn't suck against... who, exactly?

Herc? He's always prepped for him.

Wonder Man? Sucker shots for comic relief, not a fight.

Ikaris? Got disarmed and humiliated.

Namor? Same.

Maybe Bucky? No, got treated like a z-list villain.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nah, he took a punch, too. WOAH!

Anyway
http://imgur.com/PDLAvVV

http://imgur.com/DL7A7di


And maybe the whole reason this whole Ares hate is going on

http://imgur.com/tBEBUFS

Originally posted by One Big Mob
WOAH!

Yes, very impressive compared to Ares' performances.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Anyway
http://imgur.com/PDLAvVV

http://imgur.com/DL7A7di

Knocking the spit out of Sentry's mouth. Seriously? That's a feat now?

Yes, Zeus got knocked down on his ass. Colossus wouldn't be able to replicate that feat, iyo?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
And maybe the whole reason this whole Ares hate is going on

http://imgur.com/tBEBUFS

Not really.

He's an underachiever with little feats under his belt. Bendis' jokes were the best thing about the character, which says a lot.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
WOAH!

Anyway
http://imgur.com/PDLAvVV

http://imgur.com/DL7A7di


And maybe the whole reason this whole Ares hate is going on

http://imgur.com/tBEBUFS

Ah.

The last scan. Escaped my memory. Now it all makes sense.

This is what a z-list villain can do.

Wolverine stalemated him in Avengers/Invaders.

It's cool to hate on characters Pr likes... that's what is really happening here. Ares was never popular on KMC, don't pretend otherwise.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes, very impressive compared to Ares' performances.



Knocking the spit out of Sentry's mouth. Seriously? That's a feat now?

Yes, Zeus got knocked down on his ass. Colossus wouldn't be able to replicate that feat, iyo?



Not really.

He's an underachiever with little feats under his belt. Bendis' jokes were the best thing about the character, which says a lot. I don't even think that punch exists first off, and second, Hulk wasn't swinging with the gusto that he was in WWH 2. He still completely bypassed his durability pretty effortlessly. He didn't knock him out, he just crunched his arms up. Looks great.


Um yeah? Why wouldn't it be? He hurt a raging Sentry. Colossus would have crinkled his arm up against Sentry.
Keep in mind you're downplaying a punch that effected Sentry while uplaying Colossus merely being awake after Hulk took it easy on him.

Would Colossus be able to knock down and rock a Skyfather? No. You speak of very little feats under his belt, but Colossus has no feats near this level with many feats under his belt. What would you be basing this on?
His best feats are fighting an underperforming Gladiator and knocking out Hulk with some almost surprise attacks. Then he has nothing, like nothing that even comes close actually. At least Ares is shown consistently enough to pack a punch.

OK. He still wins though.

Colossus for the overwhelming majority.

Love ya zop but you are totally wrong my dude.

Cyclops literally made a deal with a devil while Colossus fought Gargan because he had no other Dark Avenger to match. This was a consistent theme across different writers and books.

Ares would literally two piece Colossus...

Originally posted by zopzop
Colossus for the overwhelming majority. I agree.

Colossus fights Hulk and gets respect, Ares fights Hulk and gets humiliated.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I don't even think that punch exists first off

https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_008.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_008.jpg If you study the panels in that fight Colossus was basically fighting WWHulk for quite a while with minimal help.

Watch this. Omg, the spit!!!

https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_015.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Watch this. Omg, the spit!!!

https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_015.jpg Cheapshotted him. And even Beast made Hulk bleed with a kick in that arc.
Hulk wasn't in smash mode until his fight with Juggernaut in that series. He was specifically not trying to kill anyone, and the damage he caused Juggernaut pretty much shows how much he was throttling down before hand.

There's a difference between hurting the most subdued Hulk we saw that entire arc, and making Sentry "THE SPIT" when he's in full on kill mode. You're also writing off the Sentry fight purely because of the one scan I used, when the Sentry fight was a great showing for Ares, ending aside. He took two huge punches right off the bat, choked, rammed, elbowed, and all this from a being who was operating at a level capable of tearing him in half. Right before getting torn in half he hit Sentry hard enough to spit and effect him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_008.jpg That's better though. But again, we look at him arriving at the X-Mansion. Beast took quite a few shots from him as well and only got knocked out twice, the other times he was groggy but shown to be getting up. If we apply your same logic across the board we have everyone who took more than one shot or one shot without being KO'ed as more durable than Ares... and She-Hulk, Doc SamPson, and Thing. It's applicable across the board, or we realize Hulk was going a little bit harder in the main arc.

He took some shots and that's a good feat, but we're talking about this like Hulk wouldn't have one shot Colossus if he were at the rage he was at in WWH 2.

Even if, you're contrasting a high end feat against an apparently low end feat iyo. In that case, Colossus has done better against Hulk. Ares has done better against Thor. That still leaves us with Ares having better feats however, and a seemingly higher standing within the universe. Ares hits harder and it's pretty arguable that he's more durable too. If this was a "Who can fight Hulk better" thread, then Colossus would probably win.

Colossus. But it'd be a tough fight.

Even while crippled Colossus admits that WWH is too dangerous to get close too.

https://lowbrowcomics.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/world_war_hulk_-_x-men_002_010.jpg

Lol, WWH could control his strength and abilities with superhuman mathematical accuracy, to the point where he could create an omni-directional shockwave and avoid fatalities in the immediate area. It was his most impressive super power imo as far as Pak is concerned.

He could hit Aunt May and let her live if he wanted to. If he wanted Colossus dead, he'd have punched a hole right through him.

Ares would literally make Colossus into a urinal, because he's that savage. The original Oeming Ares mini is more impressive than anything Colossus has ever done put together, to the power of 3. Including the Gladiator fight, and the one time he held up the Quinjet or something, lol.

Ares is way faster, much more durable in terms of damage soak, infinitely more skilled, and just flat out much stronger. He'd destroy Colossus with ease. This is a flat out major point across a 7 issue crossover between the X-men and Dark Avengers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnZ8hlG64Jo

You think Colossus would ever have that kind of respect? Bro, that's more respect than Thor got.

Colossus can stalemate your average Sentry for a while, Ares losing to him was PIS

Since we are using abc logic
Colossus has beaten the Hulk and was in a prolonged fight with Gladiator.. What feats by Ares tops that?

Zeus, Sentry, Chaos War King...

I think Ares also had a nice showing vs Nate?

Ares Strength CL70
Colossus Strength CL100
Strength goes to Colossus

Durability/Invulnerability goes to Colossus. Except if Ares is allowed to use Vibranium weapons.

H2H goes to Ares obviously. Though peter is good he shouldn't be on that level.

I think this is a rather close one. Skill over stats most of the time but without weapons Colossus should win more often than not imo. With weapons, dunno most likely Ares if the metal is hard enough.

Originally posted by h1a8
Since we are using abc logic
Colossus has beaten the Hulk and was in a prolonged fight with Gladiator.. What feats by Ares tops that? Hes done ok vs Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Bentley
I think Ares also had a nice showing vs Nate?

He was beating Nate.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1792101-dark_x_men_03_0012.jpg

'But you.....I have no counter for you....'

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1792105-dark_x_men_03_0016.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1792106-dark_x_men_03_0017.jpg

The war God....is winning.

Then he has some nice feats, like keeping portals open when it's mathematically impossible:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1654695-sw09004.jpg

And getting into slugfests with Herc:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/2930527-ih_115_dcp_014.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/2930529-ih_115_dcp_016.jpg

That's the level he's on. And that's not bringing in his full history throughout the years.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Hes done ok vs Juggernaut.

And amped Juggernaut.

Ares' "feats" are about doing a whole lot of nothing.

Yeah, Ares was a chump bck when he started, definitely got a good bumplatet on tho, between his mini,dark avengers and chaos war

Very few feats, all things considered.

He had his time to shine. He spent it all on being a different kind of comic relief than Hercules.

Pr is a global now, he'll ban all Brans of KMC, starting with Bran Prime.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Very few feats, all things considered.

Yup. 40+ years of history and there's maybe like two feats that really stand out. I bet in terms of pure strength (ie lifting feats) Colossus' showings > anything Ares has done. I'd take Colossus for durability too. The only advantage I'd give Ares is fighting skill.

Still, Colossus never does this kind of fun stuff:

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/5431359-contest+of+champions+%282015-%29+010-007.jpg

Ares is on a completely different tier from Colossus. At his best, he was like a more brutal, less versatile/powerful Wonder Woman with a healing factor. An amalgam of Wolverine and Thor. He got jobbed plenty, but he also did pretty well.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was beating Nate.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1792101-dark_x_men_03_0012.jpg

'But you.....I have no counter for you....'

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1792105-dark_x_men_03_0016.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1792106-dark_x_men_03_0017.jpg

The war God....is winning.

Then he has some nice feats, like keeping portals open when it's mathematically impossible:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/1654695-sw09004.jpg

And getting into slugfests with Herc:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/2930527-ih_115_dcp_014.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/2930529-ih_115_dcp_016.jpg

That's the level he's on. And that's not bringing in his full history throughout the years.

Someone should post Ares vs Rogue/Gambit.

Put it this way.

If I made a Gladiator vs Superman thread, and used Glads' Colossus showing as proof that Superman wins...I'd be crucified (and rightly so).

Everyone would say how I was low balling, using PIS, whatever.

Yet, it's used here as if Colossus is a generic herald buster

When he, with two amps (Cyttorak and P5) was unable to KO Stilts fav, Puny Parker, despite him wanting to do so.

Either Peter is that good, or Piotr is that shit.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Either Peter is that good
He's that good. His jobber aura is mighty. Firelord, Masterson Thor, Hulk (who he KOed with a garbage truck, etc..) can all verify it's potency.

early on ares was shown as a direct peer of thor and hercules. he got watered down a bit then seemingly was given a bit more respect by marvel. in general i'd take ares for a slight majority here. overall i don't think there is an awful lot separating these 2.

Can we compare lifting and durability feats (since they are the easiest to measure), then move on from there?

Originally posted by leonidas
early on ares was shown as a direct peer of thor and hercules. he got watered down a bit then seemingly was given a bit more respect by marvel. in general i'd take ares for a slight majority here. overall i don't think there is an awful lot separating these 2. WWHulk compares Colossus strength to his old levels.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
WWHulk compares Colossus strength to his old levels.

No he didn't.

This is what he said:

https://i.postimg.cc/N2kSLYdq/533fdaaf8f3c42e16ca7ce94706856b8--world-war-hulk-hulk-smash.jpg

MIGHT'VE made a DECENT opponent. That is terrible. Dont know why anyone would consider that a compliment.

Just before WWH crunks him.

Casually breaks his arms. Colossus showings before this should be evidence WWH was holding back, tremendously.

Put it this way.

Colossus was manhandled - literally - by WWH. Who specifically says that maybe in the past (i.e. when he was weaker/not holding back) Colossus MIGHT have made a decent opponent.

Otoh, Ares fights evenly with Herc. Who WWH says had the best chance of stopping him.

That shows their levels.

Yep

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Put it this way.

Colossus was manhandled - literally - by WWH. Who specifically says that maybe in the past (i.e. when he was weaker/not holding back) Colossus MIGHT have made a decent opponent.

Otoh, Ares fights evenly with Herc. Who WWH says had the best chance of stopping him.

That shows their levels.

No, that shows some ABC-logic level shit.

I expected this from Carter, not you.

We are the Three Who Are One. One Dark Carver.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We are the Three Who Are One. One Dark Carver.

Before his WWH upgrade, Hulk couldn't even put a dent in Colossus' armor

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Colossus was manhandled - literally - by WWH. Who specifically says that maybe in the past (i.e. when he was weaker/not holding back) Colossus MIGHT have made a decent opponent.


Hulk meant that Colossus would've put a decent fight back when he was powerless Bruce Banner. There is your compliment.

Mustafa will kick you out of your apartment soon.

A good combination of people came together for Ares here.

On the other side you have Stilt, Zop, Juggernaut, and h1.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Put it this way.

Colossus was manhandled - literally - by WWH. Who specifically says that maybe in the past (i.e. when he was weaker/not holding back) Colossus MIGHT have made a decent opponent.

Otoh, Ares fights evenly with Herc. Who WWH says had the best chance of stopping him.

That shows their levels. How did Ares do vs WWHulk?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
How did Ares do vs WWHulk?

It was one of his greatest showings ever.

First he missed, then got one-shotted.

Somehow, Ares managed to do worse than when he first encountered the Hulk. Guess he was really focused, wonderful performance.

No worse than Beast.

Point being WWH scaled to his opponents as he wasn't trying to kill nobody and held back all throughout.

It's not feasible to make the comparison with green scar as the common opponent.

Colossus would get annihilated by a semi serious Hercules. Colossus would get owned even harder by nate grey

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No worse than Beast.

Point being WWH scaled to his opponents as he wasn't trying to kill nobody and held back all throughout.

It's not feasible to make the comparison with green scar as the common opponent.

Colossus would get annihilated by a semi serious Hercules. Colossus would get owned even harder by X-Man.

Much worse than Beast, actually. Hank actually connected with his strikes and took some hits.

Don't want to use WWH, fine. Savage Hulk got flash-ko'd/stunned by Piotr --- while Ares broke his pathetic spear and got two-shotted.

Colossus wouldn't even get a look in for Chaos War.

And do you think Iron Man would need these guys to take Piotr in?
https://i.postimg.cc/vgwzM8x8/1753404-the_mighty_avengers_01_028.jpg

This is Tony. The guy who, every time he preps for someone (Thor, Hulk, Phoenix) he overestimates his own worth and underpreps.

And here he is, needing ten guys to bring him in.

C'mon. Nothing following that issue proves Stark would need a team to deal with Ares - and you know it.

Seems like he was stroking Ares' dick, so he could get him on the team. Manipulating lesser godlings is easy like that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
There IS this feat, where Sentry, WM and Carol Marvel couldn't hold him

https://i.postimg.cc/Wh7qZfN1/b8_UE96i_d.jpg

He threw them off casually like they weren't even there.

The only manipulating people do of Colossus is of his consciousness.

Cool.

Ares damaged voidtry, zeus, and even supergod herc. Was able to fight on par with Nate Grey.

Colossus is full of some of the worst lows for a mid level brick ever. And he is a full on unambiguously lawful good type of hero and his track record is still garbage. Ares has some low showings but they are right in line with Colossus', and he has the excuse of being a villain/anti hero to cover some of his losses, and yet his highs are far beyond anything Colossus has done.

Yeah, Colossus has his infamous Gladiator fight but that fight was so low level that Colossus got ko'd by a falling building yet was able to take Glad's blows fine. Lol. Shows you that was more like Gladiator's worst performance ever than Colossus' best.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Cool.

Ares damaged voidtry, zeus, and even supergod herc. Was able to fight on par with Nate Grey.

Colossus is full of some of the worst lows for a mid level brick ever. And he is a full on unambiguously lawful good type of hero and his track record is still garbage. Ares has some low showings but they are right in line with Colossus', and he has the excuse of being a villain/anti hero to cover some of his losses, and yet his highs are far beyond anything Colossus has done.

Yeah, Colossus has his infamous Gladiator fight but that fight was so low level that Colossus got ko'd by a falling building yet was able to take Glad's blows fine. Lol. Shows you that was more like Gladiator's worst performance ever than Colossus' best. The main reason Gladiator is seen so low is because of Claremont. Pretty much all his lows are written by him including the Colossus fight.

It's the same guy who wrote him going h2h with Cyclops (although non canon).

Anyone else remember that time when an amped Maestro had trouble taking down ares?

https://i.imgur.com/M4sLQwT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WOCYWwz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/f9MdluY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zVegw5K.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He threw them off casually like they weren't even there.
Ok? Doc Samson threw off : Hercules, Namor, Wonder Man, and Iron Man. Not only did he throw them off him, he actually went H2H against them for a little while. Much more impressive than Ares' showing. Yet no one here thinks Doc Samson would get the majority against any of the characters he threw off him.

Originally posted by zopzop
Ok? Doc Samson threw off : Hercules, Namor, Wonder Man, and Iron Man. Not only did he throw them off him, he actually went H2H against them for a little while. Much more impressive than Ares' showing. Yet no one here thinks Doc Samson would get the majority against any of the characters he threw off him.

Not my point.

Point was, Stilt said NOTHING he did after that was on that level to suggest a team was ever needed to take him down.

The only one putting considerable effort into holding him seems to be Simon, though. And he jobbed awfully during that era - forgot how to fly, got pwnt by Norman and so on.

Sentry is using one hand and Carol is not even touching Ares.

It really looked promising back then, that I admit.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
A good combination of people came together for Ares here.

On the other side you have Stilt, Zop, Juggernaut, and h1.

I sided with Ares due to skill and speed. Slight edge though and not a stomp.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not my point.

Point was, Stilt said NOTHING he did after that was on that level to suggest a team was ever needed to take him down.
That's my point. Stilt was right. That Ares/Sentry/WM/Carol showing doesn't suggest you need a team to take down Ares. Just like the Doc Samson/WM/IM/Namor/Hercules showing doesn't suggest that you need a team to take down Doc Samson (because we know his history).

Originally posted by deathslash
Anyone else remember that time when an amped Maestro had trouble taking down ares?

https://i.imgur.com/M4sLQwT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WOCYWwz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/f9MdluY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zVegw5K.jpg

That showing makes it more believable that Colossus wins. You are not doing Ares any favors.

Um... what?

So Maestro, whilst trying to subdue Ares, is unable to KO him with three shots.

h1: This proves Colossus can beat him.

@zop: They're all trying to restrain him. He flings them off casually. You think IM on his lonesome would be enough to physically restrain him, when those three couldn't? OK.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
A good combination of people came together for Ares here.

On the other side you have Stilt, Zop, Juggernaut, and h1.

i spurted a bit of beer here....

Originally posted by h1a8
That showing makes it more believable that Colossus wins. You are not doing Ares any favors. lol, what? Ares shrugs off multiple punches from an amped Maestro and then briefly floors him and you think that demonstrates that Colossus would win? LOL, he just came out of a stasis crystal (numerous alternate reality heroes couldn't break out of theirs, Maestro and Sentry included), got blitzed by an amped version of the the hulk, and then briefly downs him.

To be fair, all he did to Maestro is kick him in the dick.

Fun fact: that Maestro's armour is taken from an Iron Hulk:
https://i.postimg.cc/0bs369pY/RCO014_1469312163.jpg

And Maestro only needed 4.5 mins to defeat the Grandmaster:
https://i.postimg.cc/vD9kH468/RCO014_1469313604.jpg

But yeah, Colossus can replicate that

Originally posted by Damborgson
To be fair, all he did to Maestro is kick him in the dick. He stopped his punch. I'm pretty sure if you look around you can find an h1 quote about punch stopping and his thoughts. Then again, h1 doesn't give a shit about what he said before, only what he can twist now.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fun fact: that Maestro's armour is taken from an Iron Hulk:
https://i.postimg.cc/0bs369pY/RCO014_1469312163.jpg

And Maestro only needed 4.5 mins to defeat the Grandmaster:
https://i.postimg.cc/vD9kH468/RCO014_1469313604.jpg

But yeah, Colossus can replicate that Collector was packing enough power to break the shield too.
Mind you he implied later he was stronger in his own dimension than he was with the Iso, but still, enough power to break a piece off the shield.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@zop: They're all trying to restrain him. He flings them off casually. You think IM on his lonesome would be enough to physically restrain him, when those three couldn't? OK.
Again see my Doc Samson example, much more impressive than the Ares' one and no one believe IM wouldn't destroy Doc Samson in a fight (just like he would Ares).
https://i.postimg.cc/bZR5LNLt/757445-samson3.jpg
They're not trying to 'restrain' him, they are actively beating the sh|t out of him and he still threw them off like feebs.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@zop: They're all trying to restrain him.

Carol isn't.

Bob does a half-assed effort with one hand.

Originally posted by zopzop
Again see my Doc Samson example, much more impressive than the Ares' one and no one believe IM wouldn't destroy Doc Samson in a fight (just like he would Ares).
https://i.postimg.cc/bZR5LNLt/757445-samson3.jpg
They're not trying to 'restrain' him, they are actively beating the sh|t out of him and he still threw them off like feebs.

lol they were most definitely NOT trying to beat the sh!t out of him. he suckered them, admitted simon was stronger and they were barely attending him when he threw them off to utterly no effect. he only entered the battle because they were too powerful to tackle hulk and and he was afraid they would do too much damage. the feat looked sort of impressive i guess, until you read the entire meeting in context. i mean wtf? even when they battled the hulk they were basically laughing and popping jokes.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol they were most definitely NOT trying to beat the sh!t out of him. he suckered them, admitted simon was stronger and they were barely attending him when he threw them off to utterly no effect. he only entered the battle because they were too powerful to tackle hulk and and he was afraid they would do too much damage. the feat looked sort of impressive i guess, until you read the entire meeting in context. i mean wtf? even when they battled the hulk they were basically laughing and popping jokes.
Do you not see Hercules punching him in the face, while Namor, IM and Wonderman attempt to restrain him?

Originally posted by zopzop
Do you not see Hercules punching him in the face, while Namor, IM and Wonderman attempt to restrain him?

That's nothing, man!

Look at what Danvers contributed in the Ares scan! Look and tremble!

http://i68.tinypic.com/e5pkp1.png

Few inches more and Ares could've sued her for the sexual assault!

She was using both hands to amp Sentry's one arm.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
She was using both hands

Oh yes, she was.

https://tinyurl.com/yd4zn5cw

Doc SamPson knocks out Colossus too

Zopzop, everyone of the old guard has read that comic. The context made it very clear that Samson wasn't even as strong as any of the four.

On the OTHER hand, a few issues earlier to that feat, Tony said he estimated it would take 5 of his toughest Avengers (Sentry, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel etc.) to take down Ares. 6 for safety.

Not comparable at all with the context given.

Fyi, Sampson would beat the utter shit out of Colossus.

Originally posted by h1a8
That showing makes it more believable that Colossus wins. You are not doing Ares any favors.

Lol.

That punch catch and breaking out of the stasis is way more impressive than anything Colossus has ever done.

I'm just confused as to how some people are surprised? Cyclops, a master strategist, literally made a deal with the Devil to create an amped Valkyrie to stop Ares. Nothing else the X-men had could stop him on Utopia, and there were some heavy hitters there.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.

That punch catch and breaking out of the stasis is way more impressive than anything Colossus has ever done. That's just what Colossus wants though.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
A good combination of people came together for Ares here.

On the other side you have Stilt, Zop, Juggernaut, and h1.

Colossus isn't the hero KMC deserves, but he is the hero we need. He will unite us.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zopzop, everyone of the old guard has read that comic. The context made it very clear that Samson wasn't even as strong as any of the four.
No sh|t, that's my whole point! Neither is Ares in that Sentry/WM/Carol scan.


If you believe Simon, Carol, or Sentry individually wouldn't wipe the floor with Ares, I don't know what to tell you.

Originally posted by zopzop
Do you not see Hercules punching him in the face, while Namor, IM and Wonderman attempt to restrain him?

no, actually, i don't. looks to me like he's just sort of charging into him, maybe getting ready to hit him or grab him with his left hand. and even if that WAS a punch it was the weakest punch herc has ever thrown and so clearly not indicative of them trying to beat the sh!t out of him. even if you're right its meaningless and only serves to prove my point. lol

this has gone well off the rails btw, and the topic is getting buried beneath strawmen--poorly crafted strawmen....

https://i.imgur.com/241hsPT.jpg

lol

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It was one of his greatest showings ever.

First he missed, then got one-shotted.

Somehow, Ares managed to do worse than when he first encountered the Hulk. Guess he was really focused, wonderful performance. Sounds bad@ss to me.

Colossus at least put of a fight and got some respect from Hulk.

All Ares got was an ass whooping.

Originally posted by leonidas
no, actually, i don't. looks to me like he's just sort of charging into him, maybe getting ready to hit him or grab him with his left hand. and even if that WAS a punch it was the weakest punch herc has ever thrown and so clearly not indicative of them trying to beat the sh!t out of him. even if you're right its meaningless and only serves to prove my point. lol

this has gone well off the rails btw, and the topic is getting buried beneath strawmen--poorly crafted strawmen....

What did you expect? It's a thread with one character written horribly when it comes to consistency, and a character that for some inexplicable reason people love to hate.

It was never going to be done well.

Originally posted by -Pr-
What did you expect? It's a thread with one character written horribly when it comes to consistency, and a character that for some inexplicable reason people love to hate.

It was never going to be done well. which character is which?

Colossus isn't as inconsistent as Ares so he's the latter, which means Ares is the former.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Sounds bad@ss to me.

Colossus at least put of a fight and got some respect from Hulk.

All Ares got was an ass whooping.

Whooped and disarmed... twice.

First time, it was his own fault; the spear broke on the Hulk's hide.

During WWH, Ares' sword shattered when he got smashed.

Originally posted by leonidas
no, actually, i don't.

Really?

http://i64.tinypic.com/23o0g1.png

Colossus. Outside of few hax showings (X-man), Ares on average is depicted as a super strong brick. Same as Colossus. Except weaker.

I agree. Barring every showing in which he's absolutely superior to what Colossus has done in his full career he's not that impressively above Clossus.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Whooped and disarmed... twice.

First time, it was his own fault; the spear broke on the Hulk's hide.

During WWH, Ares' sword shattered when he got smashed.



Really?

http://i64.tinypic.com/23o0g1.png

i guess it's the complete lack of motion lines. i dunno. and the total lack of any effect. i mean his head is being held. like i said--if it was a punch, it was the worst punch of his career and if anything only supports the idea that they weren't actually trying to hurt samson. /shrug

It's so soft and undynamic looking that he literally may just be pushing his forearm into samson's face.

Lol at you lot.

Stop, you're making the Ares camp look bad. I'm reporting Leo.

You're all blind.

Hercules is clearly trying to grab Wonder Man's hand to take it off Samson, but trips and misses.

Herc is always a bro.

I really wanted to compare lifting (strength) and durability feats (since they are the easiest to gauge) between these two. Then we could move on from there.

In comics, characters are inconsistent.
Basically any character with superhuman strength can shrug off punches from another, but far stronger, character.

We got highs and lows. Showings can be twisted in two ways.
1) A lower character doing well against a stronger character could be that the stronger character is having a low showing while the lower character remains the same.
or
2)
the lower character having a high showing while the higher character stays the same.

But never a combination of the two.

That's why quantifiable feats are important (lifting, punching things at a distance, pulling, etc.

Thing has done well against beings who are many times stronger than him.
In reality, if someone is just 3 times more powerful than you then you would appear as a child to them. Thing is about 100 tons. He fights beings that has exerted more than 1000 tons and does well.

Finally, let's say 1 character is 100 tons and another is 105 tons. Not a big difference right? Fight should be nearly even if everything else is even?
Wrong! If the two pushed against each other then the stronger will win by 5 tons. That's enough to send the weaker back like a ping pong ball. And with 5 tons more force, you can manhandle anyone with extreme ease. Grab their wrists and have them to anything you want.

ABC logic is very faulty in comics.

Then what happens if you don't have lifting feats?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then what happens if you don't have lifting feats?
Which is odd for a brick with 40+ years of showings no?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then what happens if you don't have lifting feats?

Striking feats, pulling feats, breaking feats, or any other quantifiable feats.

Originally posted by zopzop
Which is odd for a brick with 40+ years of showings no?

Does Ares really not have that many?

Originally posted by zopzop
Which is odd for a brick with 40+ years of showings no?

Not really.

Post Doomsday's lifting feats. I bet he has fewer strength feats, than, say, Amadeus Cho or Jane Thor. Despite having nearly 30 years of showings.

Post Mangog's lifting feats. He's been around for 50 years now.

Bet he has fewer lifting feats than Jane. In a slugfest, no weapons (with a stip that Jane doesn't go back to Make a wish after 15 mins), who wins? Jane, due to her superior lifting?

For most of his history, Ares was a villain. Arguably, he still was even when in the Avengers. They just don't get the lifting feats apart from existing as a foil to the heroes.

Its like I said to Carver once:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think it depends on how many showings they have.

Deathstroke has plenty of showings, where, whilst he tags Flash, also has many showings where he is much slower than Flash (hit by bullets, for example).

Therefore, fights don't count as much. Feats do. Because of PIS, or WIS, or whatever, where he has to be shown to be a threat - thus, dumbing down the other side. Why else would Toyman be a fricking threat, lol.

LT? Darkseid? Fights count much more. They don't have as many appearances. ABC scaling is needed. When they enter a fight, it's a pretty damn big deal.

Captain Marvel? He has a fair few appearances. So his feats need to be taken into account. Orion? Fewer - and then, he only seems to be trotted out for fights (he IS the Dog of War, after all). So his fights count for more.

Ares has been around for 40+years, yes, but it's not as if he was the Joker or something.

As has been mentioned before during a test of strength WWHulk commended Colossus on his strength, yea he bent his arms back but Ares would have faired worse in that same situation.

Fact.

He didn't comment him on his strength - he commended him on his guts.

As in, hey, well done for stepping up even though you have zero chance of doing anything to me.

That's the fact. No commendation of Colossus' strength, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is what he said:

https://i.postimg.cc/N2kSLYdq/533fdaaf8f3c42e16ca7ce94706856b8--world-war-hulk-hulk-smash.jpg

Not fact.

Ares' best striking feats are far above anything Colossus has done.

Hulk held back less against Ares. All there is to it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He didn't comment him on his strength - he commended him on his guts.

As in, hey, well done for stepping up even though you have zero chance of doing anything to me.

That's the fact. No commendation of Colossus' strength, lol. He made the comments during the strength test.

He was commending him on his strength. I know you hate Colossus but deal with it.

Question if Ares is below colossus y remove his axe?