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The Black Swordsman replaces Frodo as the ring bearer. What happens?

Cool Thread. I guess the real question is, how resistant would Guts be to the ring? If he can resist it then he simply walks into Mordor in the most direct way possible while hacking apart anything that comes close and then simply glares the ring into Mt Doom with the shear power if his manliness. Seriously, not much could stop him imo.

Guts would be quickly corrupted by the Ring. There no real question about it.

Well, he lives day and night with the Godhead corrupting his mind, invading his dreams, so he's kind of used to it. And the Berserker Armor completely submerges him without help, but he somehow manages to not attack his allies.

Sauron's close enough the Godhead to focus him on beating him, even if he becomes corrupted.

If Guts becomes corrupted he becomes the new dark lord.

Originally posted by cdtm
Sauron's close enough the Godhead to focus him on beating him, even if he becomes corrupted.

Sure. Sauron's ****ed, no doubt about that.

Yeah Guts could definitely resist the corruption until he drops it in Mt. Doom. And anything that tries to stop him gets cut in half. He's fought off far more powerful creatures than most of what is in LotR, abd many of those times he was at a disadvantage or outnumbered or injured.

The witch king can't be killed by a man, so that's at least one thing he can't kill...

That was due to a prophecy not some magic power that makes him invulnerable to men. Altough he does have spells of invulnerability placed on him by Sauron which were undone by Merry's magic sword. I expect Dragonslayer is sufficient to undo these spells as well.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
The witch king can't be killed by a man, so that's at least one thing he can't kill... I mean, Guts could hack the Witch-King into pieces.

Also Eonwe might be able to take him without the Berserk armor.

Tulkas, Ungoliant, and Melkor would also be able to take him out.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure. Sauron's ****ed, no doubt about that. Sauron would probably lose to Guts without Berserk Armor, with it Sauron dies IMME-DIATELY even at his strongest.

Sauron would feeb Guts lol wtf.

Many of the Apostles Guts has wtfpwned would wreck LotR.

Originally posted by KingD19
Many of the Apostles Guts has wtfpwned would wreck LotR. No apostle in the series is as powerful as the Balrog, or Smaug. Or Gandalf for that matter.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sauron would feeb Guts lol wtf. Sauron's gotten beaten by a handful of Mortals, he's shit. Guts has better showings overall.

Originally posted by NemeBro
No apostle in the series is as powerful as the Balrog, or Smaug. Or Gandalf for that matter. Grunbeld is definitely > Smaug.

Start shaking in your boots kid, when I get home you're going down.

I'd like to see it.

Smaug was taken down by a arrow, all's said and done. Wouldn't have scratched the Apostle.

Another thing, is most of the LOTR enemies aren't Balrog level anyways. They're Orcs, and Trolls, and giant spiders, and undead things. Nothing Guts hasn't fought before.

Those just seem like feats of might. Which Guts is no slouch with. Tell me the next time someone in LOTR has the precision to split steel with a sword, or when they're able to arrow-time in one of their weakest forms, or when they're able to cut through one of the hardest materials on their respective universe using something that was inferior as a metal.

Guts is far too fast, he can create tornadoes with his attacks and dodge lightning, in the Berserk armor his strikes are strong enough that they are comparable to that of a cannonball, but in reality they are much stronger due to the cutting edge that the Dragonslayer provides.

I mean honestly, Guts fights things like the Balrog every single damn day, literally every single day, and still wins, he cuts it in half with one swing if we're talking the Berserk armor. Plus Sauron would really have to beat on him to kill him, as the Berserk armor forces you to fight until you lose every drop of blood and all your bones are broken.

Sauron just doesn't seem all that impressive to me, especially based off what you just showed.

Lets not forget all the countless people he get trounced by. He got scared shitless by Eonwe when he was tasked with bringing him in (which is understandable since Eonwe was apparently "the greatest with arms in all of Arda".) But then he gets defeated by Huan, Luthien, surrendered to Ar-Pharazon.

C'mon man, Guts is just an overall better combatant, Sauron is known for his might, but he's more known for his deception and cunning. He's been defeated more then once.

He can't compete on par with the Valar in combat though, and we both know it, they are ALL flat-out better, he's bitched out to people less then Maiar.

Also, yes, a giant fire demon falling from a massive height broke off a huge mountainside, thats surprising, but it's still not really a combat feat.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'd like to see it.

Smaug was taken down by a arrow, all's said and done. Wouldn't have scratched the Apostle.

Another thing, is most of the LOTR enemies aren't Balrog level anyways. They're Orcs, and Trolls, and giant spiders, and undead things. Nothing Guts hasn't fought before. "Giant Spiders".

Bud you know Ungoliant beat Morgoth and trapped Tulkas, right? Tulkas, one of the Valar who defeated Morgoth in single combat.

Btw, just for the record, I don't think Guts is taking on most of the higher ups, but combatively, Sauron is legitimately one of the weakest Maiar and is known more for his deception and cunning, when he does take people on 1v1 he usually gets ****ed up.

In fact, Gandalf/Olorin at full power would also give the dude a great fight, may even defeat him.

Infallible the Maia are not, the more they take on people the more they take on mortals, the more they seem to get ****ed up. Guts sword also exists on an astral plane, so anything cut by his blade, whether it's the witch king, the balrog, gods, demons, everything is getting ****ed up by that blade.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Start shaking in your boots kid, when I get home you're going down. ALSO I'd like to say, Grunbeld in his second form is not getting hurt by Smaug, not even close, his skin is made of material much stronger then even diamonds, so at best they can't hurt each other. Guts, however, if he gets close, is chopping that dragon to pieces, he can definitely chop that MF's head clean off if he gets close enough, and thats without the Berserk armor, with it, you now have a dude that is strong enough to hit with a force as great, if not greater then what Smaug can produce as a whole, can't be killed unless Smaug tries to eat him (really bad ****in move), if Smaug tries smacking him, he gets that limb cut off, if he tries eating him, he either gets his head cut off or cut in half, there are literally so many ways Guts can kill that MF it'll make your head spin.

Ancalagon is a completely different story and will roast him in 3.5 seconds.

Guts

He'll eventually make his way to Mt Doom.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"Giant Spiders".

Bud you know Ungoliant beat Morgoth and trapped Tulkas, right? Tulkas, one of the Valar who defeated Morgoth in single combat.

Don't know anything about that. Only one's I've seen were killed by hobbits and dwarves.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Btw, just for the record, I don't think Guts is taking on most of the higher ups, but combatively, Sauron is legitimately one of the weakest Maiar and is known more for his deception and cunning, when he does take people on 1v1 he usually gets ****ed up.

"Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel."

Literally right at the beginning of the book. Sauron is undoubtedly one of the strongest of the Maiar. You brought up his defeats earlier but not only were some out of context, but the rest of those characters are among the strongest in the Legendarium.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
In fact, Gandalf/Olorin at full power would also give the dude a great fight, may even defeat him.

Not a chance. Gandalf has admitted his own inferiority to Sauron.

Originally posted by ares834
"Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel."

Literally right at the beginning of the book. Sauron is undoubtedly one of the strongest of the Maiar. You brought up his defeats earlier but not only were some out of context, but the rest of those characters are among the strongest in the Legendarium.



Not a chance. Gandalf has admitted his own inferiority to Sauron.

Fair enough on the last one, but that could mean anything, it could mean that he was Melkor's greatest ASSET as opposed to his greatest warrior.

Originally posted by cdtm
I've heard a lot of this, actually.

The thing is, for all this talk of power, you simply don't see it in the main story. Sauron, he gets stabbed through by a sword, while wearing the One Ring. Gandalf, he runs from common trolls and flees from Forrest fires.

Maybe they were simply weakened, for whatever reason. Not in their "final form". Fair enough, but that's what Guts will be facing in this scenerio. Not a Demi-God who can bust mountains, but a hoard that couldn't stop a hobbit and his party.

Guts should never even SEE the Balrog, because he's in no way flee from the army Gandalf and his charges were, who Gandalf himself really should have been able to fend off, but for whatever reason, didn't. Gandalf chose not to use his powers to the fullest, its not his fight, the whole reason the Maiar and Valar didn't get involved is because they wanted humans to fight for themselves.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Gandalf chose not to use his powers to the fullest, its not his fight, the whole reason the Maiar and Valar didn't get involved is because they wanted humans to fight for themselves.

Which seems like the same fan pandering given with Palpatine and Vader.

Doesn't matter, Gut doesn't needs to beat Maiar and Valar non combatants. He just need to clear the main campaign.

Originally posted by cdtm
Which seems like the same fan pandering given with Palpatine and Vader.

Doesn't matter, Gut doesn't needs to beat Maiar and Valar non combatants. He just need to clear the main campaign. It's outright stated, hell he doesn't even go by his real name, he uses the name "Gandalf".

He could've ended the Witch-King but got beaten by him, he could've easily killed that Balrog with little to no effort, but he didn't.

Hell even today Gothmog vs Sauron is still debated (Gothmog being the most powerful Balrog that ever lived).

But yes, mortals can beat Maiar, but they really shouldn't be able to, it goes against everything they are and what they represent and what they can do.

Granted they are the most powerful of their kind one they do take on Maiar 1v1, but still.

I think the way it works is, Olorin is at the bottom of the Maiar, with Eonwe being at the top undoubtedly.

But Guts could probably take on the Ringwraiths by himself, yeah, he's faced similar odds against similar creatures and still one.

Originally posted by cdtm

Guts should never even SEE the Balrog, because he's in no way flee from the army Gandalf and his charges were, who Gandalf himself really should have been able to fend off, but for whatever reason, didn't.

From the film's standpoint: Guts would face the Balrog, Gandalf was forced to go through Moria because Saruman conjured a snowstorm and lighting and blocked the mountain pass (Caradhras).
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In the book it's different, Gandalf wanted to cut through Moria, as he believed it would have been safer and more covert, believing the Orcs were shattered after the Battle of Five Armies and possibly Dwarves still made their home somewhere in Moria, while Aragorn wanted to take Caradharas and he won the argument initially, but heavy snow made them change course.