Apocalypse vs Juggernaut

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CosmicComet
https://www.sowhowins.com//Character%20Pictures/Apocalypse.jpg

vs.

https://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Juggernaut-Marvel-Comics-X-Men-Cain-Marko.jpg


The most recently seen versions of each.

Horrificus
Juggernaut.

CosmicComet
Why?

Horrificus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Why? Apoc has nothing that can harm Juggernaut.
He should not b able to make contact with his flesh at all.
We saw what Apoc did with Hulk. This is one case where being magically protected AND armored would b an asset.

Like a soldier climbing around on a tank. Juggernaut can cause physical damage until he comes up with something permanent.

CosmicComet
Why can't he harm Juggernaut?

Juggernaut being totally invulnerable is a myth that has been dispelled over and over again.

Even a massively holding back Green Scar was able hurt Juggernaut very clearly with punches. Even Professor Hulk hurt him badly.

Juggernaut just recently lost to a very weak version of Thor, getting teeth knocked out.

Apocalypse no sold a Jarnbjorn wielding Thor and slapped him around.

Apoc also isn't a one trick pony like Cain is. He is versatile as hell and could probably play keep away indefinitely until he knocks that helmet off, then its naptime.

Horrificus
I guess it depends on which appearance of Juggernaut we want to reference.
Both characters taken at their best, Cain would eradicate Apoc.
I chalk Apoc's win against a young Thor, up to lack of experience in battle and the use of his powers.
And, Juggs has been seen to display his powers in different ways at times. Ways that Apoc would not b able to deal with.

krisblaze
Lmao whaaaat, easiest win for Apocalypse ever.

He's like the anti-juggernaut.

He's malleable, he teleports/flies and he has telepathy.

Horrificus
Originally posted by krisblaze
Lmao whaaaat, easiest win for Apocalypse ever.

He's like the anti-juggernaut.

He's malleable, he teleports/flies and he has telepathy.
That is a terrible argument. Not one thing u listed, can help him in a fight with Juggernaut. But, Juggernaut CAN hurt Apoc. Unless he keeps teleporting away.

Your problem is, that if we do not lowball each other, Juggernaut wins.
And if u lowball, I can lowball also and Juggernaut wins anyway.
There is no way for Apoc to win if both characters r treated the same. And his Elbow Hoses arent gonna help him here.
And if u have it in your head that Juggernaut is just a strong brick, u need to look into his feats and capabilities.

krisblaze
How will telepathy not stop him?

CosmicComet
Have these two ever fought in comics at all?

If not it's surprising.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Have these two ever fought in comics at all?

If not it's surprising.

Never, afaik.

But Apoc did send the War Hulk after Juggs, to test the Celestial might.

https://tinyurl.com/y8ycqa9p

Parmaniac
Was about to post this thumb up

CosmicComet
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Never, afaik.

But Apoc did send the War Hulk after Juggs, to test the Celestial might.

https://tinyurl.com/y8ycqa9p

Yeah I know.

I feel like it indirectly shows Apoc's superiority to Cain as I doubt he would let one of his horsemen reach greater power than himself.

But I'm sure others would argue otherwise.

But it's crazy how they never came to blows. To of the most famous x-men villains.

StiltmanFTW
True.

There are many fights that haven't happened yet, though.

Magneto vs. Graviton is another example.

abhilegend
Or magneto vs Juggernaut

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by abhilegend
Or magneto vs Juggernaut

Yeah, but that one at least happened in some alternate realities.

CosmicComet
So not even alternate realities/What ifs have Cain and Apoc battled? Damn.

Insane Titan
Apoc wins handily

Horrificus
If niether gets lowballed, Cain wins.
If both get lowballed, Cain wins.
As long as they r handled evenly, Cain wins.
Apoc has no way of harming Cain.
Cain CAN harm Apoc.

If they both use powers and abilities and feats rarely seen, Cain is completely beyond Apoc.

If u dont agree, layout more specific rules and we will go from there.

CosmicComet
You are a broken record.


Anything that doesn't fit your mythical portrayal of juggernaut is 'lowballing'

Dude has been hurt many times by bricks that Apocalypse can hang with strengthwise.

He got owned by War Hulk, due to the power he was given. Power that Apocalyse rated as less than his own. He wasn't even remotely surprised that war hulk overpowered juggernaut's enchantment.

War Hulk, an Apocalypse minion, defeated Juggernaut.

Cain can't even touch the guy if he doesn't want to be touched. He is hyper limited. Even during the days where he had extra powers he wasn't doing much other than generic energy ball projection. And he gave all that extra power up to Oblivion iirc.

Not that the old version of juggs is even relevant to this thread.

Horrificus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
You are a broken record.


Anything that doesn't fit your mythical portrayal of juggernaut is 'lowballing'

Dude has been hurt many times by bricks that Apocalypse can hang with strengthwise.

He got owned by War Hulk, due to the power he was given. Power that Apocalyse rated as less than his own. He wasn't even remotely surprised that war hulk overpowered juggernaut's enchantment.

War Hulk, an Apocalypse minion, defeated Juggernaut.

Cain can't even touch the guy if he doesn't want to be touched. He is hyper limited. Even during the days where he had extra powers he wasn't doing much other than generic energy ball projection. And he gave all that extra power up to Oblivion iirc.

Not that the old version of juggs is even relevant to this thread. I didn't say anybody lowballed Cain.
"owned", do u mean when War Hulk used Cain's momentum for a sidestep and toss? I just want to b clear in this.
R u talking about this, when u r stating that War Hulk "owned" Cain?
U r calling that a defeat.

Damborgson
I dont think Apoc has anything in his arsenal that can put Cain down.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Damborgson
I dont think Apoc has anything in his arsenal that can put Cain down.

Cement truck > Celestial tech, confirmed big grin

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Horrificus
I didn't say anybody lowballed Cain.
"owned", do u mean when War Hulk used Cain's momentum for a sidestep and toss? I just want to b clear in this.
R u talking about this, when u r stating that War Hulk "owned" Cain?
U r calling that a defeat.

Cain is one of my favourites, but c'mon now.

He didn't exactly look better in the rest of that comic.

Damborgson
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cement truck > Celestial tech, confirmed big grin

A cement truck isn't standard gear for Apoc Stilt, come on man erm


wink

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Damborgson
A cement truck isn't standard gear for Apoc Stilt, come on man erm


wink

True, that kind of tech is beyond Celestials, anyway.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Horrificus
I didn't say anybody lowballed Cain.
"owned", do u mean when War Hulk used Cain's momentum for a sidestep and toss? I just want to b clear in this.
R u talking about this, when u r stating that War Hulk "owned" Cain?
U r calling that a defeat.

Dude. Your recollection of the events is flat of wrong.
You are mixing up WWH with War Hulk.

What happened was that War Hulk had casually overloaded Creel.
And then Cain surprised him out of nowhere and tackled War Hulk.
He pushed him a few thousand feet until War stopped his momentum dead. There was fear in Cain's eyes. Then War grabbed Cain with a tentacle and tossed him. Cain landed and started looking for War, but the narration clearly said Cain was hesitant and apprehensive. Dude was scared of War.

And then when they finally got in a tussle again War casually sent Cain flying with a punch while talking shit to him. And Cain wasn't just knocked away, he was clearly hurt by the punch. He started talking slowly, with ellipses in his sentences, and he took several pages to get back to his feet.

War was about to chop his head off if not for Creel.
Yeah, it was absolutely a defeat for Cain. He was down for longer than a 10 count, certainly a win for War.

During the narration while Apocalypse was viewing the battle he specifically said this battle was a test of his own Celestial based powers against Juggernaut's to see which was superior, and that he got his answer.

Ozymandias was on the New World Order team with Juggernaut and he was treating Apocalypse as a power that was beyond comprehension, despite being in the same room as Juggernaut.


Actually, Apocalypse was a beast in that entire issue. He got a ton of respect. He did something Cain had never done; he casually overpowered a furious savage hulk. He made it look easy. Hulk was pissed, because just moments before he had been tricked by the X-Men and the Apocalypse teleported him out of there.

His eyes were red while he was trying to break out of Apocalypse's tentacled grip, but he couldn't. Apocalypse willing let Hulk go, and Hulk was keeled over coughing big time from the struggle. And then Apocalypse gave him a tour of Egypt, showing him the ghosts of his past, and Hulk willingly followed. Apocalypse overpowered Hulk so badly that it was a sonning. No, literally, Hulk was talking to himself via the figment of Brian Banner that lives in his head and that figment said Hulk was seeing another father figure in Apocalypse. laughing

It was hilarious. Apocalypse was talking shit to Banner the whole time after he overpowered him and Hulk didn't say or do shit about it even though he was unrestrained and free to try. He followed Apocalypse around like a puppy and got subjected to experiments, even though the issue before he was pissed as phuck at the X-Men even though they were trying to help him and didn't belittle him.

Yeah, I'm gonna double down on Apocalypse winning. The way he easily overpowered Hulk in that issue is underrated. It was a huge strength showing, and done casually.

On the other hand that one fight where Xavier showed up and TK'd Cain unconscious to break up his fight with Hulk was pretty damning. Once Hulk got pissed enough he easily overpowered and tossed Cain around like trash. Yet an even stronger Hulk years later couldn't even budge Apocalypse.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yeah I know.

I feel like it indirectly shows Apoc's superiority to Cain as I doubt he would let one of his horsemen reach greater power than himself.

But I'm sure others would argue otherwise.


War Hulk, especially during that era, would be >>> Apocalypse imo. He was the nexus at that point IIRC.

CosmicComet
I read the issue again and the opposite was implied.

War Hulk was a faithful servant to Apocalypse.

After Apocalypse easily overpowered Hulk, Banner willingly followed him around despite Apocalypse talking down to him throughout the issue.

Apocalypse basically said War's power was greater than anyone save his own after he overpowered Cain's unstoppable enchantment. And he continued saying the fight was a reflection of the power difference between his own celestial tech and juggernaut's powers.

Inedian
Apocalypse

Horrificus
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I read the issue again and the opposite was implied.

War Hulk was a faithful servant to Apocalypse.

After Apocalypse easily overpowered Hulk, Banner willingly followed him around despite Apocalypse talking down to him throughout the issue.

Apocalypse basically said War's power was greater than anyone save his own after he overpowered Cain's unstoppable enchantment. And he continued saying the fight was a reflection of the power difference between his own celestial tech and juggernaut's powers. ok, good enough.
If i get 5 f'ing minutes of freetime to myself, I will post a response.
Regardless, its a fight I would like to see.

Bentley
Apocalypse is everything Juggernaut wants to be when he grows up.

Philosophía
Apocalypse headbutts Cain's helmet off then shapeshifts into cement for the win.

StiltmanFTW

Philosophía
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Magneto later literally eats that cement and shits out Joseph and Polaris? https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t/39717712_apoc1.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t/39717713_apoc2.jpg

StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud

JFC. Your collection keeps growing.

Horrificus
Ok big grin

First of all, I have a question: R u guys saying, that because Apoc uses some Celestial technology, his power is equal to that of the Celestials?
Because, well, that's stupid.
And, I'm pretty sure that if it gave him even the tiniest fraction of their power, their would not b any Marvel Comics. No matter what crap he states on-panel, it cannot b taken as gospel.

StiltmanFTW
Cain, who had enough power to slay Cyttorak, got pwnt by a cement truck.

Might take some time to steal one of those rare vehicles, but I'm pretty sure Apoc and his Horsemen can do that.

abhilegend

Inedian
And what happens next in that issue?

It's not canon tough.

Philosophía

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