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I've always wondered where Qui-Gon really is relative to other duelists. I think he suffers a bit from "Maul killed him lol"-ism and the result is that he gets underrated. Now, I'm not saying Jinn could go up against Yoda or anything, I just want to start a discussion about where he fits. In terms of the "tier" system, I would think he's a very high 7 bordering 8, or a very low 8 - somewhat similar to how Windu goes from 8 to 9 when he uses Vaapad against Sidious. What really stops Qui Gon from being solid tier 8 is his stamina in prolonged lightsaber combat, at least against a solid 8 Juyo practicioner like Maul. However the sources give off the impression that Jinn and Maul were about even with each other until Jinn started tiring.

Thoughts?

He's a seven. Nearing the top but still below Fisto, Mundi and Plo.

Originally posted by Xiggy
He's a seven. Nearing the top but still below Fisto, Mundi and Plo.
Mundi?

Originally posted by CactusJoe
Mundi?

Indeed.

Mundi, exhausted and demorilsaed gave Legends Grevious the same fight as a Fresh Qui Gon did to Maul in TPM.

Jinn doesn't have abnormally low stamina, he just can't keep up with Maul's pace. He's a solid 7, probably no worse than Plo Koon.

Lmfao

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Lmfao
Ah, a B-team hater. Fits well with being a Kenobi lover https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png
https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png
https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/tg5Ws.png

The feat on Hypori vs the cyborg is a little bit better considering circumstances.

Isn't the level between two tiers a stomp? Like shouldn't an 8 stomp a 7? Gin did considerably well, well enough that I'm not sure about giving Maul such a decisive advantage.

Originally posted by Xiggy
The feat on Hypori vs the cyborg is a little bit better considering circumstances.
Not convinced. Mundi had more help and got stomped worse.

In their first fight Maul had him dead to rights in 30 seconds, in the second Maul didn't waver from a position of superiority as he lured Jinn to a better tactical location and gutted him without dropping a bead of sweat.

So, about what he would do to Plo Koon.

Tf have Tiin and Kolar done to show parity to Jinn lol?

For the record I have Fisto solidly above Jinn, so perhaps your "omg B team hater, abc lover pqr hater" crap could use some rest.

The gaps between levels get higher as the tiers progress apparently.

So Jinn is closer to Maul than Maul is to Sidious.

Still.. Jinn is not really a match for Maul. based on their two fights. On Tatooine Jinn was exhausted after a bout lasting 40 seconds. He only survived long enough on Naboo because Maul was steering the Jedi as far away from the other battles as possible. This is explained in the novel.

There is no need to carry the salt from an year old debate where you were made to look like a neanderthal till today

IIRC, in their first fight, Maul is taken off guard by how Jinn anticipated his attacks and balanced himself perfectly. I think that's pretty impressive for an Ataru specialist going up against a Juyo specialist. If Jinn is a 7, he's like, a very high 7.

Whatever gives you pleasant dreams bro

Jinn may not be a match for Maul, but where is the source that says Maul had him dead to rights on Tatooine?

Even so, it's patently obvious that he is a greater challenge to Maul than Mundi is to Grevious so idk what Zig is onto here

Originally posted by CactusJoe
Not convinced. Mundi had more help and got stomped worse.

The help is irrelevant. It would be like citing the significance of Fisto, Tinn and Kolar to the outcome of Mace and Sidious.

The main point is in the circumstances and what they mean. A low point in mental and physical energy causes GM Luke to drop several tiers. Mundi is in that position against Grievous, and lasts a while on his own off panel.

Then you have to factor in Styles. Grievous is a cyborg with rotatable joints and vertebrates wielding three lightsabers. This is unseen territory for Mundi,

On the other hand, Jinn is fresh against maul with the latter sporting a classic stance with a training weapon.

Nothing personal. Don't have time for a CaV lol

Above Koon, below the B-Team.

Originally posted by Xiggy
The help is irrelevant. It would be like citing the significance of Fisto, Tinn and Kolar to the outcome of Mace and Sidious.

The main point is in the circumstances and what they mean. A low point in mental and physical energy causes GM Luke to drop several tiers. Mundi is in that position against Grievous, and lasts a while on his own off panel.

Then you have to factor in Styles. Grievous is a cyborg with rotatable joints and vertebrates wielding three lightsabers. This is unseen territory for Mundi,

On the other hand, Jinn is fresh against maul with the latter sporting a classic stance with a training weapon.
Will reply when on a pc

He is probably around the level of Koon, above Tiin and Kolar but below Kit

Doesn't Koon have some pretty good acolades?

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Whatever gives you pleasant dreams bro

Jinn may not be a match for Maul, but where is the source that says Maul had him dead to rights on Tatooine?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-26-2018/85Bt30.gif

Jinn peeled over after 35 seconds with Maul.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Whatever gives you pleasant dreams bro

Jinn may not be a match for Maul, but where is the source that says Maul had him dead to rights on Tatooine?

Even so, it's patently obvious that he is a greater challenge to Maul than Mundi is to Grevious so idk what Zig is onto here TPM novel:

Qui-Gon had barely managed to scramble up the rampway and into the interior of the ship before the hatch sealed and the Nubian began to accelerate. He lay on the cool metal floor of the entry, his clothing dusty and damp with his sweat, his body bruised and battered. He breathed deeply, waiting for his pounding heart to quiet. He had barely escaped with his life, and the thought was worrisome. His opponent was strong and had tested him severely. He was getting old, he decided, and he did not like the feeling.

Junior novel:

He made it! "Qui-Gon's on board, " he told Olie as the ramp closed. "Get us out of here!"

Without waiting to see whether the pilot obeyed, Obi-Wan started for the main hall. The young boy followed him. They found Qui-Gon in a dusty heap just inside the entry, covered with sweat and breathing hard. I've never seen him in such bad shape after a fight! If we hadn't gotten to him when we did...

---

Probably others.

After running for a considerable amount of time in the heat of Tantooine.

Originally posted by Meatpants
After running for a considerable amount of time in the heat of Tantooine. Prove this actually mattered.

35-45 seconds seems to be about how long a fight between a 7 and 8, or 8 and 9 will take in pure sabers, give or take some time for other factors.

Originally posted by Meatpants
After running for a considerable amount of time in the heat of Tantooine.

The exhaustion is from the fight.

Qui gon is running at a pace that allows 9 year old Anakin to stay behind in close proximity. And Anakin isn't breathing heavily or collapsing as soon as he gets on the ship.

I'll totally prove how running Kilometers through the desert of Tantooine does nothing to your stamina.

Originally posted by Meatpants
I'll totally prove how running Kilometers through the desert of Tantooine does nothing to your stamina. Jedi can spar at high intensity for hours without breaking a sweat. Maul actually had a wound and had been fighting random ****ers before taking Jinn on, you don't hear him whining about it.

Jinn didn't whine about running either. Anyway I want to see what other people have to say before stepping in.

Originally posted by Meatpants
Jinn didn't whine about running either. Anyway I want to see what other people have to say before stepping in. Coward.

Originally posted by Meatpants
I'll totally prove how running Kilometers through the desert of Tantooine does nothing to your stamina.

This is Star Wars Jedi, Not fat peoples boot camp US.

Probably Koon level.

But yeah Fisto has the best feats of the B-Team, Koon and Jinn, due to handling Greivous (even chopping off an arm) and legitimately blocking a few Saber blows from an all out Sidious (opposite Windu of course).

Don't think Windu being there mattered, IIRC Sidious was so fast that Windu didn't really have a chance to defend anyone except himself.

Originally posted by Meatpants
Don't think Windu being there mattered, IIRC Sidious was so fast that Windu didn't really have a chance to defend anyone except himself.


Was thinking Sidious would be slower fighting 2 opponents than 1.

Like he has to turn to another opponent then back to Fisto. Gives Fisto more time to block.

Good point. I just vaguely remember the book mentioning that Windu barely had a chance to even help anyone.

Originally posted by Meatpants
Don't think Windu being there mattered, IIRC Sidious was so fast that Windu didn't really have a chance to defend anyone except himself.

But a jog with a 9 year old boy totally mattered for Qui Gon before fighting Maul....

Originally posted by Xiggy
But a jog with a 9 year old boy totally mattered for Qui Gon before fighting Maul.... Ouch, talk about pulling the rug out from under.

Wasn't saying it was a major factor or anything.

Originally posted by Meatpants
Wasn't saying it was a major factor or anything. You posited that Windu being there to help Fisto didn't matter, but walking through a desert at a brisk pace a 9 year old could keep up with to some extent did.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Above Koon, below the B-Team.

He is in the Netherworld of The Force.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
He is in the Netherworld of The Force.
KEK, that legit got a chuckle out of me.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
KEK, that legit got a chuckle out of me.

Lets put it this way, not anywhere high.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
Lets put it this way, not anywhere high.

Qui-Gon was pretty high to me when he spoke about The Force.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
Lets put it this way, not anywhere high.


Well that depends what you class as high.

PLO Koon, Mundi And Kit Fisto are all high in my book. Given they are all Council Members when the Jedi were at the height of their powers.

And Qui-Gon definitely fits somewhere between them IMO.

How did you come with the name of Darth Thor, Senior Member?

Do you have written stories where Thor is evil?

Is it because he can use lightning?

Just a random way to mix Marvel with Star Wars.

There's clever meaning in my username.

Hey, I may be an idiot (the bulk of us SW fans are), but I'm a happier idiot than you.

How would Kit Fisto fare against Jinn in a dueling contest?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol yeah this.

Why not Thor Skywalker?

Wasn't Qui-Gon's age cited as a reason for his fatigue?

So Jinn gets tired and Dooku does not? It is true what they say. The newer generation is frail and weak.

Boomer

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Why not Thor Skywalker?


Taken by some YouTube guy. Wouldnt wanna pretend im him.

Like would anyone believe that...

Originally posted by Meatpants
How would Kit Fisto fare against Jinn in a dueling contest?

Many people, myself included, consider Kit above that level because of his spar with Kenobi in Cestus Deception. The latter noted Kit was restricting himself just so Kenobi could keep up with him. It can be presumed that this Kenobi is at least Jinn's equal in sabers.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Wasn't Qui-Gon's age cited as a reason for his fatigue?

IIRC, yes. His age coupled with his heavy use of Ataru is supposed to have heavily contributed to fatigue in dueling over time. My interpretation from the source material is that Jinn and Maul were at a parity until Jinn begins to tire, to which point Maul's youth and extensive training take over.

I've always wondered why Jinn didn't do something to combat increased fatigue. He became more grounded in fights and relied more on experience as the years went by, but I don't see how retooling Ataru would really help. But then again, when was there ever any reason to adapt for fighting a Sith? He was already one of the best duelists in the order, and there was no reason to drastically change or alter his fighting style I guess.

My recommendation would have been to utilise more Makashi (he definitely would have been heavily familiar with the form) and take on Soresu to shore up his defences, as Kenobi did.

Originally posted by Xiggy
Many people, myself included, consider Kit above that level because of his spar with Kenobi in Cestus Deception. The latter noted Kit was restricting himself just so Kenobi could keep up with him. It can be presumed that this Kenobi is at least Jinn's equal in sabers.

I've heard of this, but I don't know the details. Is this AotC Kenobi?

^ Pretty much yeah. Right after AOTC.

But there is also power scaling next to Ventress to consider.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Pretty much yeah. Right after AOTC.

Do you have the quote? Interested in reading it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor But there is also power scaling next to Ventress to consider.

How do you mean?