Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I was recently rewatching Rebels and came across this scene-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51gcEVBd6i8

Just seems brutal as ****. Almost sadistic. So it got me wondering if canon Thrawn is intended to be more on the evil spectrum?

Not evil, imo. Just brutally efficient. Some of his actions might be perceived as evil but the intention behind them likely isn't.

Based as ****.

Originally posted by Beelzebub
Not evil, imo. Just brutally efficient. Some of his actions might be perceived as evil but the intention behind them likely isn't. This.

There was a problem with the craftsmanship of Imperial vehicles that were being produced at that factory. Sacrificing one worker so the rest could see what would happen to them if the vehicles they assembled continued malfunctioning was the most efficient means of immediately bolstering the overall production quality of that factory. After all, if the workers continued producing subpar equipment, they would essentially be committing suicide.

That said, Thrawn is not 'evil' in the conventional sense -- he is actually portrayed as an exceedingly honorable warrior/tactician in the canon novelizations. However, with a few rare exceptions, he doesn't view people as people, per se(be them Imperial or enemy) -- he views them as assets that can be used/manipulated to help him achieve his desired results for the Emperor. If some of those assets have to die in order for said results to be achieved in the most direct and efficient way possible, then so be it. He has no real attachment either way.

Lol I like the justification for evil. Very villain like of you Galan.

Yeah no shit he is

The Empire is evil.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol I like the justification for evil. Very villain like of you Galan. You can't be evil if you have no morals to begin with.



https://i.imgur.com/oP6MKm3.png

Originally posted by Galan007
This.

There was a problem with the craftsmanship of Imperial vehicles that were being produced at that factory. Sacrificing one worker so the rest could see what would happen to them if the vehicles they assembled continued malfunctioning was the most efficient means of immediately bolstering the overall production quality of that factory. After all, if the workers continued producing subpar equipment, they would essentially be committing suicide.

That said, Thrawn is not 'evil' in the conventional sense -- he is actually portrayed as an exceedingly honorable warrior/tactician in the canon novelizations. However, with a few rare exceptions, he doesn't view people as people, per se(be them Imperial or enemy) -- he views them as assets that can be used/manipulated to help him achieve his desired results for the Emperor. If some of those assets have to die in order for said results to be achieved in the most direct and efficient way possible, then so be it. He has no real attachment either way. Doesn't that still make him evil though?

It's all perspective. Is doing what's right for your people at all costs inherently evil? No. But you can do things that would be considered 'evil' to reach that end goal.

Tbh, whenever a villain is doing something for other people/the greater good of a certain group, be it family, species, planet etc. - whether the right method or not - I don't see them as particularly bad.

Exactly.

There is rarely ever any malicious intent behind Thrawn's actions. He simply provides results in the most effective, efficient, and direct way possible. Does that make him 'evil' in the same sense as Palpatine, Vader, or even Tarkin? Absolutely not.

With that being said, Thrawn does not advocate killing for the sake of killing(as most Imperial figureheads do.) He actually prefers to take his enemies alive whenever possible/practical.

Evil is based on intent, not outcome. At least, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
You can't be evil if you have no morals to begin with.



https://i.imgur.com/oP6MKm3.png

That is not a good joke.

Well, he's on the "evil" side. So in that sense, he's evil.

As a person, discounting advocating for the Empire, not really. As moral as any other qualified military commander on Earth during wartime.

Originally posted by gold slorg
As moral as any other qualified military commander on Earth during wartime.


So any other qualified military commander on Earth during wartime would start randomly killing his own soldiers if there was a traitor among them?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
So any other qualified military commander on Earth during wartime would start randomly killing his own soldiers if there was a traitor among them? Umm this has actually happened many, many times in civilized history...and more times than not the military officiants in question had very evil intent behind what they were doing.

But I want to keep this discussion in the realm of SW. Not RW.

Originally posted by Mendax
Umm this has actually happened many, many times in civilized history...and more times than not the military officiants in question had very evil intent behind what they were doing.



Key part underlined.

Of course massive loads of atrocities happen in war times. But point is we still accept them as atrocities, and have a code of conduct we support even during war times.

For example its well known during war times there are many cases of rape, even from the so called civilised sides. But we still accept that as an awful crime.

How else are they going to let off steam? Anti-rape propagandist smh.

Thrawn wasn't even a rapist, afaik. Poor analogy all around.

Was an example of a war crime.

But I get it. Everyone freaks out over the R word. Which is why I used it

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Key part underlined.

Of course massive loads of atrocities happen in war times. But point is we still accept them as atrocities, and have a code of conduct we support even during war times.

For example its well known during war times there are many cases of rape, even from the so called civilised sides. But we still accept that as an awful crime.

The thing is, there are plenty of things things people would consider "evil" if it were to happen in normal everyday life that is accepted during wartime. And again, evil is dependent on your definition of the word.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thrawn wasn't even a rapist, afaik. Poor analogy all around. But Trench was.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Was an example of a war crime.

But I get it. Everyone freaks out over the R word. Which is why I used it Again, it's all about perspective.

Thrawn did not maliciously kill that worker for the lulz. The worker was killed because he was producing faulty equipment that was malfunctioning on the field of battle and subsequently killing Imperial troops. His death served as an 'inspiration' to the rest of the workers to start doing their jobs properly, and was responsible for drastically improving the overall production quality of that factory. This, in turn, actually saved an untold number of Imperial soldiers from dying by way of their own poorly constructed equipment.

Moreover, had that worker been doing his job adequately from the get-go, he would've had nothing to fear as the speeder wouldn't have exploded in the first place.

^ You know firing him probably could have worked too right?

Simply firing the worker wouldn't have motivated the other workers nearly as much, if at all. The problem with poor craftsmanship(and malfunctioning equipment) would have persisted, and Imperial troops would have continued dying as a corollary.

Perspective.

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense. But you'd think they would have started with a lesser punishment then death right off the bat, lol.

Oh I'm sure local Imperial management tried several other alternatives beforehand, but none of those directives/punishments worked on a broad enough scale to permanently fix the issue.

You can't tell me that having the third highest ranking being in the entire Empire directly intervene was a first resort. If something as simple as a quality control issue at a single factory on a single world warranted Thrawn's direct attention, it means the problem had likely persisted for a considerable amount of time without being resolved... So when Thrawn finally intervened, he handled it in the most efficient(and permanent) way possible.

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply firing the worker wouldn't have motivated the other workers nearly as much, if at all.


It probably would actually. Even Imperials need to pay the bills. They could easily be blacklisted on top so they cant find alternative jobs.

Also im getting worried you truly believe in your argument.

If they would have fired every worker that was producing shoddy equipment at that factory, they would've also lost a good portion of their staff, and therefore would not have been able to produce an adequate quantity of vehicles to reach their quota. This is counterproductive.

One worker's death(at the hands of his own poorly constructed vehicle, mind you) not only resolved the production quality issue of that factory by making an irrefutable statement to the rest of the workers, but also saved the lives of untold numbers of Imperial troops who had to rely on said equipment in the field. Prior to this, Imperial troops were dying and battles were being lost solely because of the subpar vehicles that factory was producing.


It was a direct and efficient resolution. Sacrifice one to save hundreds/thousands.

Galan seems to outsmart all of you.

Not only that but the workers seemed to have been conscripted into the job or only taken the job in order to sabotage the equipment from what I remember of the episode.

One of the reasons for Thrawn's visit is because he suspected purposeful sabotage from the workers, and wanted to investigate the factory personally.

Hmm I suppose if they werent saboteurs theyd have nothing to worry about with Thrawns random selection.

And knowing the Empire theyd be executed if found guilty of that crime anyway.

Will have to find something more evil to prove Thrawns evilness hmm