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Since not too many from a previous thread thought too much of SS's cosmic bolts, does he have enough to atominize HP version of DD? If so how would DD reform since he can't be killed the same way twice? How would this battle go?

DoS DD would pummel the shit out of Surfer. H/P is spite, tbh.

Barring BFR, obv.

He's treying to atominise DD, Galan.

Can Silver Surfer devolve him?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's treying to atominise DD, Galan. Basically my post is a two fold question, can he atomonize Doomsday and if not can Surfer defeat him at all?

The answer to both: only if he can approximate power equal to that of Entropy itself.

Lmao
DD destroys him

????????

Wow! Just Wow. Wasnt this the same h/p doomsday a few months back that lost to wwh comfortably?? Now he's destroying surfer???

Or was that carver's doing

Originally posted by The Spectre+
Wow! Just Wow. Wasnt this the same h/p doomsday a few months back that lost to wwh comfortably?? Now he's destroying surfer???

Or was that carver's doing Hahahaha.......

Originally posted by The Spectre+
Wow! Just Wow. Wasnt this the same h/p doomsday a few months back that lost to wwh comfortably?? Now he's destroying surfer???

Or was that carver's doing

Lmao!!!

So, in this case, why would Doomsday ever touch Surfer ? 🤔

Stalemate, since Norrin cant hurt him.

Or a black hole sends him away.

Edit: the questions seems to be whether or not Surfer can atomize DD.

The answer is no.

DD can touch Surfer whenever he wants, since he's far far faster tactically.

DD

Originally posted by The Spectre+
Wow! Just Wow. Wasnt this the same h/p doomsday a few months back that lost to wwh comfortably?? Now he's destroying surfer???

Or was that carver's doing

The Surfer would be unable to lock DD down the way that he can lock the Hulk down due to his gamma empowered condition. However technically, if DD is powered by solar radiation, I suppose that it would be possible for the Surfer to exploit this. Forum Surfer is actually worse than forum Flash due to his crazy power set. Why so few rep him in debates has always weirded me out, because he's actually crazy powerful.

Originally posted by panthergod
DD can touch Surfer whenever he wants, since he's far far faster tactically.

No he isn't. wtf are you on?

Originally posted by panthergod
DD can touch Surfer whenever he wants, since he's far far faster tactically.

If Surfer is in the air, his chances of doing that are zero in a forum setting.

But combatants start on the ground.

And DD is faster than Flash

Originally posted by Stoic
No he isn't. wtf are you on?

Surfer is physically slower than Spider-Man. He has zero speed feats superior to elite GLs. Cry about that fact.

Doomsday Wars feats can apply to HP, from my understanding. So Doomsday plummets Surfer to the ground.

The Surfer can become intangible at will, phase DD's molecules, make him one with his board, and remotely pilot him into a star.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But combatants start on the ground.

And DD is faster than Flash

Hyperbole at its best. The Surfer outpaced the destruction of 616 space, while you stick to a statement that has no feats to back it. If DD were as fast as the Flash, he would have been scoring 10 hits for every one that Superman scored, Superman would have never made DD Rex look like a statue, and Darkseid wouldn't have ever tagged him with his Omega beams. But if you want to go that route, Sentry has the power to drive Galactus off, and is in fact as powerful as a million exploding stars. By feats DD is nowhere near as fast as the Surfer, nor does the Surfer have to ever get into a brawl with him.

Originally posted by panthergod
Surfer is physically slower than Spider-Man. He has zero speed feats superior to elite GLs. Cry about that fact.

You have an aggressive strain of autism

Originally posted by Stoic
The Surfer can become intangible at will, phase DD's molecules, make him one with his board, and remotely pilot him into a star. I doubt merely intangible ability do any good against doomsday,Doomsday already broken MMH intangible ability in doomsday wars.
https://i.imgur.com/7DjNUgI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/amUM6a4.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
The Surfer can become intangible at will, phase DD's molecules, make him one with his board, and remotely pilot him into a star.



Hyperbole at its best. The Surfer outpaced the destruction of 616 space, while you stick to a statement that has no feats to back it. If DD were as fast as the Flash, he would have been scoring 10 hits for every one that Superman scored, Superman would have never made DD Rex look like a statue, and Darkseid wouldn't have ever tagged him with his Omega beams. But if you want to go that route, Sentry has the power to drive Galactus off, and is in fact as powerful as a million exploding stars. By feats DD is nowhere near as fast as the Surfer, nor does the Surfer have to ever get into a brawl with him.

DD killed Superman, the guy who races Flashes for fun. That's a pretty good feat.

Omega Beams can catch up to Flash.

DD Rex is not DoS Doomsday.

Plus, don't forget:

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0qvrwKr/18.jpg

Booster is from the future. He knows pretty much all there is about the present day JLA. He's essentially a JLA fanboy - so if he thinks DD is faster than Flash....

Originally posted by Damborgson
You have an aggressive strain of autism

Cry more Thorbag. But it must feel good sticking up for a character that hasn't had as much of a humiliating track record recently as Thor, right ?

Nothing I said is disputable.

Originally posted by panthergod
Cry more Thorbag. But it must feel good sticking up for a character that hasn't had as much of a humiliating track record recently as Thor, right ?

Nothing I said is disputable.

You think Doomsday would blitz Surfer at a 5km standard forum distance lol. While on his board no less lol.

And you think this is not disputable ?

Also going after Thor

Originally posted by Damborgson
You think Doomsday would blitz Surfer at a 5km standard forum distance lol. While on his board no less lol.

And you think this is not disputable ?

Also going after Thor

Who said it was 5km?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Who said it was 5km?

.5km, excuse me.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You think Doomsday would blitz Surfer at a 5km standard forum distance lol. While on his board no less lol.

And you think this is not disputable ?

Also going after Thor

DD caught up with the Flash momentarily in tactical speed.

So in s forum battle, absolutely.

Surfer is not a true speedster. He's more like a GL.

Well yeah. DD could wreck Thor and Surfer together, just like Darkseid did.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Surfer can become intangible at will, phase DD's molecules, make him one with his board, and remotely pilot him into a star.



Hyperbole at its best. The Surfer outpaced the destruction of 616 space, while you stick to a statement that has no feats to back it. If DD were as fast as the Flash, he would have been scoring 10 hits for every one that Superman scored, Superman would have never made DD Rex look like a statue, and Darkseid wouldn't have ever tagged him with his Omega beams. But if you want to go that route, Sentry has the power to drive Galactus off, and is in fact as powerful as a million exploding stars. By feats DD is nowhere near as fast as the Surfer, nor does the Surfer have to ever get into a brawl with him.

DD has anti energy being countermeasures. There is no evidence Surfer can counter DDs invulnerability, and diving him into a star would make him invincible, since he's ADAPTED to the climate of Krypton and ABSORBS ambient stellar energy.

By feats, in a forum battle Surfer is s statue DD can tear apart.

Btw, wut are HPdd speed feats?

Blitzing an amped Superman.

Edit: by blitz, btw, I'm not talking about the usual Flash or anime style flurries.

Any quantifiable ones?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Any quantifiable ones?

How do you mean?

By actual speeds in km/hr, he has none - but combat speeds rarely do . I mean, otherwise Flash is speed blitzing Dark Phoenix and the Living Tribunal etc....

Otherwise what?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blitzing an amped Superman.

Edit: by blitz, btw, I'm not talking about the usual Flash or anime style flurries. Also..

DoS DD was so fast in combat that Superman had problems matching his speed:
https://imgur.com/a/FNuvOtn

...which corroborates Booster Gold's statement:
https://imgur.com/a/BlxIxRb

And Maxima also remarks on his speed:
https://imgur.com/a/s3ttsMY

And others:
https://imgur.com/a/2SxQdkQ

Doomsday's high-end super-speed is quite well documented.

And DD even blitzing MMH before he could uses his phase power
https://i.imgur.com/1RMG55u.png

Originally posted by panthergod
DD caught up with the Flash momentarily in tactical speed.

So in s forum battle, absolutely.

Surfer is not a true speedster. He's more like a GL.

Well yeah. DD could wreck Thor and Surfer together, just like Darkseid did.

Wtf is tactical speed. Combat speed?

Doomsday isn't catching Surfer at all, if Surfer lifts into the air, at half a KM away. He has one option, jump at him.

Surfer isn't as impressive as some think, but he's damn fast and mobile:

https://i.imgur.com/j3MiFiA.jpg

And catching flash, not that impressive. On a forum, I assure you that Doomsday would not catch flash, just like Deathstroke would not catch him.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Wtf is tactical speed. Combat speed?

Doomsday isn't catching Surfer at all, if Surfer lifts into the air, at half a KM away. He has one option, jump at him.

Surfer isn't as impressive as some think, but he's damn fast and mobile:

https://i.imgur.com/j3MiFiA.jpg

And catching flash, not that impressive. On a forum, I assure you that Doomsday would not catch flash, just like Deathstroke would not catch him.

That's because Deathstroke has plenty of non Flash level showings, that lead us to conclude that on a forum, he's not touching Flash.

Does Doomsday?

Doomsday can literally receive over four thousand hits, point blank, before being able to respond to Superman, who is slower than Flash. Before being able to mount any sort of offense.

Doomsday is deceptively quick, when close. But how on Earth is he jumping at Silver Surfer before he moves 10 feet to the right on his board lol ? In the air no less ?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Doomsday can literally receive over four thousand hits, point blank, before being able to respond to Superman, who is slower than Flash. Before being able to mount any sort of offense.

Doomsday is deceptively quick, when close. But how on Earth is he jumping at Silver Surfer before he moves 10 feet to the right on his board lol ? In the air no less ?

He can? H/P Doomsday?

You need to then prove he is unable to react, rather than just tanking....I can post a scan of any heralds being shot at by guns, doesn't mean they were too slow to react.

Same way he gets to hit Superman et al when they're in the air. By hitting them before they can move.

He wasnt tanking, as he was bleeding, roaring and when able, grabbed Superman by the face. 4000 blows later.

To truly tank something, he would have had not have little to no reaction to it. Otherwise it affected him, like this did.

Now youd have to be the one who can prove he'd catch Surfer level speed at a .5km distance ...by jumping. On a forum where plot does not inhibit the characters and Surfer can easily avoid such tactics by not being retarded.

Originally posted by Damborgson
He wasnt tanking, as he was bleeding, roaring and when able, grabbed Superman by the face. 4000 blows later.

To truly tank something, he would have had not have little to no reaction to it. Otherwise it affected him, like this did.

Now youd have to be the one who can prove he'd catch Surfer level speed at a .5km distance ...by jumping. On a forum where plot does not inhibit the characters and Surfer can easily avoid such tactics by not being retarded.

See my first sentence.

Was it H/P?

The version that Superman was blitzing; I know some versions of SD were beaten to death by some random Krypyonians, so I cannot comment on all the various versions.

The last appearance of the original DD was when Imperiex killed him.

Any DD after that is altered/rebuilt.

Egads!!!

Dambo, is this true?????

On the other hand, rebirth Doomsday was said to be faster than before .

On the other hand of the other hand, Superman blitz-punching him is not a good argument, since at his level of speed, he makes other speedsters look like normal humans. He'd make Byrne Superman look like he's standing still.

I'm here to introduce chaos, is what I'm saying. Thee nay.

On THE OTHER hand, Superman said Damage punched him harder than DoS Doomsday.....And obviously didn't die this time.

So is Superman just that much more powerful? Dambo is such a Superfan.

What is HPdd's lunging speed?

Speak plain, friend SmellyHymen17.

given basic knowledge ss would see dd as a brute. he may take off into the air, but i doubt it would be at max speed. i think it likely he WOULD be surprised by dd's speed and likely have his head caved in because of it.

if they fought a second time, i do NOT think dd could catch ss before he took off. of course there's nothing ss could do to affect dd at all and in time, i think it likely dd would evolve the ability to fly. in fact, wasn't he able to fly in the issue where imperiex killed him? or was he still jumping and being thrown by superman....?

I thought my post was pretty clear.


I dunno.. I prefer more concrete feats is all.
Quantifiable ones would be nice. Some of the stuff shown or mentioned earlier were more akin to lip service and platitudes rather than solid ones. I mean they're nice, but...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I thought my post was pretty clear.


I dunno.. I prefer more concrete feats is all.
Quantifiable ones would be nice. Some of the stuff shown or mentioned earlier were more akin to lip service and platitudes rather than solid ones. I mean they're nice, but...

But....

He killed Superman. I mean, this isn't the case where someone calls Batman the most dangerous man alive and he isn't actually the most dangerous man, or when Daredevil actually shows fear....it wasn't just lip service. Superman was beaten to death. And during the ONE storyline where we take his feats from (whether it be DoS, or H/P), they consistently talk of his speed.

I mean, we don't say Captain America is stronger than DD in a benchpress, do we? After all, Cap has quantifiable benchpressing feats, Doomsday does not.

Lip service and platitudes is when they don't feats, AND actually have feats to the contrary. So in the example with Deathstroke, we have numerous showings where in fact, he does NOT possess Flash-level speed.

I mean, who wins in a foot race - Batman, with quantifiable running feats, or the Living Tribunal?

Who's smarter, Tim Drake (with a quantifiable IQ) or the Kree Supreme Intelligence (who does not have an IQ score attributed to it, AFAIK?)

Who has stronger leg muscles, Batman (with quantifiable legpress numbers) or Superman (who does not)?

Who can curl more, Kingpin or Darkseid?

AO killed Supes. I wouldn't 100% proclaim he's faster.

Same reason i don't believe J'onn is as powerful(more powerful)or as strong(stronger) no matter how many times J'onn or Supes himself says it on panel.

Aren't there "numerous" showings of DD getting tagged by infinitely slower opponents?

Heck I even recall Supes claiming that OMAC may be stronger than him. Uhh what?

Batman and LT running? Kingpin and Darkseid curling...? That's dumb.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's dumb.

That's exactly what your argument is.

Character A has quantifiable feats.

Character B does not.

Ergo, A is faster/stronger/tougher than B.

Replace A with Surfer, and B with Doomsday. That's what you're saying.

Replace A with Kingpin, and B with Darkseid. That is what your logic leads us to. Glad we agree on that point. Just because there are no quantifiable feats, does not necessarily mean we can't gauge their levels.

As for the rest of your post:

AO? Neither would you 100% proclaim he's SLOWER, either, would you? Because if he is, then it's PIS.

J'onn has never killed Superman. DD has. So not just lip service.

'Numerous' showings? Care to show H/P DD having these numerous showings then?

OMAC being stronger? Again, I agree with you - lip service and platitudes only get you so far. The difference you are not grasping, however, is that OMAC never beat Superman. DoS DD...well, clue is in the name, lol. H/P DD smacked an amped Superman (who had his speed amped as well) around.

It's lip service when the results suggest otherwise.

I mean, Superman has quantifiable strength, speed, skill and durabilty feats.

DD has none of these.

Based on your logic, therefore, Superman annihilates DD. We can go even further.

Batman has quantifiable strength, speed, skill, and durability feats. DD does not.

Batman beats the snot out of DD.

Not really my argument.

In a battleboard he is slower. Unless of course he has some really good speed feats that match Superman.

I'm accepting what was mentioned for DD up to a point... Just not accepting he has the speed of Flash or faster than Flash circa early 90's let alone current Flash.. Why? ...Because he lacks more concrete feats based of course on what u said that, "he has none"...
And in a battleboard, concrete feats should hold more weight than statements.

Concrete feats like what, Superman struggling to match his speed?

It's the weirdest thing. No one doubts Doomsday is as strong or stronger than DoS-era Superman when he overpowers him or matches his strength.

But when Superman has trouble keeping up with his speed? Apparently he has no concrete speed feats that enable him to match Superman.

i'm a huge dd fan but that doesn't mean i think he covers the distance to blitz ss before ss can....move. at least not if he's TRYING to evade. this isn't batman or deathstroke. ss is among the fastest character in comics....

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I doubt merely intangible ability do any good against doomsday,Doomsday already broken MMH intangible ability in doomsday wars.
https://i.imgur.com/7DjNUgI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/amUM6a4.jpg

Where did John turn intangible?

In Matt Fraction's Defenders, Surfer literally was able to turn himself to snow existing as an intangible consciousness and separated his consciousness into individual atoms or something of the sort.

Dambo has a point. If we use a "forum setting" (Which I'm not a fan off tbh), Doomsday can't touch Surfer.

Surfer could literally travel entire galaxies before Doomsday crosses half of 0.5km based on some of his depictions. Surfer isn't always a speedster and sometimes is oddly unimpressive. But he has enough combinations of ridiculous sensory perceptions/cosmic awareness and travelling speed feats, that he should on paper make the Flash his b*tch.....BUT that's not how comics work.

Anyways, Doomsday would still punch him to the death imo unless this is "Herald of Galactus" mindset Surfer I think.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Where did John turn intangible?

In Matt Fraction's Defenders, Surfer literally was able to turn himself to snow existing as an intangible consciousness and separated his consciousness into individual atoms or something of the sort.

Dambo has a point. If we use a "forum setting" (Which I'm not a fan off tbh), Doomsday can't touch Surfer.

Surfer could literally travel entire galaxies before Doomsday crosses half of 0.5km based on some of his depictions. Surfer isn't always a speedster and sometimes is oddly unimpressive. But he has enough combinations of ridiculous sensory perceptions/cosmic awareness and travelling speed feats, that he should on paper make the Flash his b*tch.....BUT that's not how comics work.

Anyways, Doomsday would still punch him to the death imo unless this is "Herald of Galactus" mindset Surfer I think. "you must have found some way around his phase powers",and in panel MMH been wrecked by DD
And I'm not familar with marvel,So about SS and DD who will win,I can't say.

I counter is based on your descriptions.....

DD could altering energy and defeating radiant,even counter and defeat waverider

And speak speed.DD's opponents also have many impressive speed feats.Like superboy and supergirl already could instantaenously travel to source wall in Teen Titans volume 3 ending.But they still been beaten by DD(or more accurately,his clone,but DD clones are far weaker than DD,since DD could defeated a clone just by one strike)

DD though maybe not have strictly speed feats(Actually,his strength,durable etc also not strictly).But he is a character beating other characters to shows how powerful he is.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not really my argument.

In a battleboard he is slower. Unless of course he has some really good speed feats that match Superman.

I'm accepting what was mentioned for DD up to a point... Just not accepting he has the speed of Flash or faster than Flash circa early 90's let alone current Flash.. Why? ...Because he lacks more concrete feats based of course on what u said that, "he has none"...
And in a battleboard, concrete feats should hold more weight than statements.

Concrete feats like killing Supes, as everyone around remarks how fast he is?

Who wins in a bench press contest, Gorr or Cap America? Quantifiable benching feats only please.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Concrete feats like killing Supes, as everyone around remarks how fast he is?

Who wins in a bench press contest, Gorr or Cap America? Quantifiable benching feats only please.

That is not a proper example lol.

Strength is not downplayed like speed is in comics.

https://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/shadowdragon03.jpg

Despite that, we know shadow dragon is still an ant to Superman speed wise.

But this happens:

https://i.imgur.com/FIF9OX6.jpg

And we can be pretty sure that Wraith is a monster.

Why? Because strength comparisons don't usually put writers in a corner like speed showings do.

Originally posted by Damborgson
That is not a proper example lol.

Strength is not downplayed like speed is in comics.

https://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/shadowdragon03.jpg

Despite that, we know shadow dragon is still an ant to Superman speed wise.

But this happens:

https://i.imgur.com/FIF9OX6.jpg

And we can be pretty sure that Wraith is a monster.

Why? Because strength comparisons don't usually put writers in a corner like speed showings do.

Except Shadow Dragon never beat the crap out of Superman. DD did.

OK, if you want to keep it to pure speed feats....

Who's faster in a foot race, Gorr or Cap America? Quantifiable running feats only please.

Maybe....Swimming? Who's faster in a swimming race, Lois Lane or Gorr?

Because at this point, where does it end? Who is faster, Flash or DD? Superman or DD? Cyborg or DD? Dr Doom or DD? Emma Frost or DD? Wolverine? Batman? Alfred? The Penguin? Thor?

All those guys have quantifiable speed feats. DD hasn't. Are you seriously going to ignore everything else, and say he's slower than all of them? That if I amped Penguin with adamantium claws, he's going to speed blitz Doomsday and cut his head off (let's assume he's been told to do so)?

That would essentially mean you're arguing that the entirety of DoS is PIS, as Superman, despite not holding back his speed, was unable to avoid DD.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Concrete feats like what, Superman struggling to match his speed?

It's the weirdest thing. No one doubts Doomsday is as strong or stronger than DoS-era Superman when he overpowers him or matches his strength.

But when Superman has trouble keeping up with his speed? Apparently he has no concrete speed feats that enable him to match Superman.

https://imgur.com/a/FNuvOtn

While some of the others may be chimed up to generic 'omg he moves so fast', this scan, in particular, is so blatant, that it really shouldn't be argued. I mean, imagine any other two characters in this exact circumstances , with Runner getting the crap beaten out of him and struggling, explicitly, by his own words, to match his speed -- this wouldn't even be a question. On top of this, we have multiple other statements, from multiple other characters, comparing him to Flash, or saying he is ridiculously fast to corroborate it . It's..really clear cut.

To put it even easier - if we make a thread where we have DoS Superman vs Doomsday - would anybody in their right mind argue Superman speed blitzes him, considering the above?

I think the argument is misguided - it shouldn't be "is DD that fast" and more like "would his first action be to blitz Surfer before he could take off?". DD is an instinctual beast, not a combat genius, for example.

Just because DD looks like a slow moving brick doesn't mean he is one.

To acknowledge DD is super fast in combat is basically admitting slow grounded bricks like Hulk has zero chance against them

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Concrete feats like killing Supes, as everyone around remarks how fast he is?

Who wins in a bench press contest, Gorr or Cap America? Quantifiable benching feats only please.
Uhh gorr can rip moon chunks and hurl them into space. I'm sure one can quantify(quesstimate) that.


Also about getting tagged by slower folks, i may have conflated other forms of DD. In hpdd though fodders seemed to not have a problem tagging him. They were mostly on the receiving end however. Then again he really didn't need to move fast against weak opponents. It seemed like he was just shrugging off their attacks. *shrug*



Basically this is how i see it. If char a and b are both stated to be as fast or faster than character c(a well known character with all kinds of speed feats), but only char a has a slew of quantifiable or or semi-quantifiable feats to go along with statements, I'll always side with char a > char b. Char a has statements and actual raw feats to back them up.

In any given arc or book, any character can be depicted or viewed differently by the writer and artist team. A character will not always be operating at the same levels all the time. Sometimes a character who is strong struggles with a mountain or a building. Then all of a sudden they can crush planets like nothing. Same for speed. Sometimes they seem to be only operate at high mach. Then all of sudden in another book they are operating just under or even way over light speed.
Then you have a character compared to them. What level did the book team have the character(fast or strong) they were compared to at? Were they high mach or around light? Were they at mountain level or planet crusher?
Hence why i think having raw feats to go along with statements is pretty important. It fleshes out a character more and gives a better picture in terms of battleboards.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Uhh gorr can rip moon chunks and hurl them into space. I'm sure one can quantify(quesstimate) that.
So zero benching feats. Thus, Cap has actual quantifiable feats - he wins.

Does not need to be Gorr. Let's use......TOAA. What quantifiable speed feats does he have? Living Tribunal?


So like when Superman gets hit by bullets. Doesn't mean he's slower than bullets, right?


What if char B kills char A? Or Char A goes up directly against B, and says that he's too slow for B? That's a nice direct comparison right there, no?


So in short, TOAA, Living Tribunal, The Presence et all lose in battle boards according to you. Lois Lane is faster than all these three.

Where would you place DoS Doomsday? Is he Jimmy Olson level? Bibbo Bibbowski level? Riddler level? Alfred? Assume I give each of these guys a Phantom Zone projector, and all they need to do is point and shoot at DD....Are you saying they will be able to outreact DD and win?

What if they had Wolverine's strength level, and adamantium claws....Would they be able to speed blitz and chop his head off? We know how easily the claws slice through heralds like Gladiator, so minimal strength is needed.

facepalm
If he can rip moon chunks(quantifiable) and hurl these chunks(quantifiable), why would he need quantifiable bench numbers > Cap? Huh??


Yes. Though he can be hit by "slow" opponents, doesn't mean he is slow. Never disagreed there. Was balancing the idea that he moves at "fast" nearly all the time. I just want to take into account everything since we don't have much in the way of raw numbers for him.

That would be nice. Again though feats > statements. I would have to refer again to the idea that characters do not operate exactly the same in any given book even when written by the same author. And in this medium, we have a ton of writers that have different views and writing the same character.


It's silly to compare nigh omnipotents to virtual ants. Why?? Why even go there? That's apples and oranges... Or even worse.

Why would DoS be Jimmy or Bibbo level?
Dunno. How fast is the projector? Is dd reacting pre-operation or reacting when fired? Beats me.



I'm gonna leave the last one alone. It's nearly lunch hear and I'm hungry. My brain can't take anymore of your apples and oranges.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
facepalm
If he can rip moon chunks(quantifiable) and hurl these chunks(quantifiable), why would he need quantifiable bench numbers > Cap? Huh??

If Doomsday can out speed Superman, and Superman clearly comments several times on his speed, and he keeps up and ultimately beats him to death....Why does he need quantifiable speed feats? Huh??


We have one writer for DoS, and one for H/P. They both are of the view DD is pretty damn fast.


To show you how ludicrous your argument is. I am using the EXACT logic you use. One side has quantifiable feats, the other, doesn't.

Ok, let's use... Cap America vs Thanos, bench press. Too high? How about Thor. Quantifiable BENCHING only, please. Or let's use speed
Who's faster, Thanos or Cap?


Jimmy has quantifiable speedfeats. DD doesn't.

This is what your argument is. I have speed feats for Alfred. I do not have speed feats for Doomsday. Ergo, Doomsday is slower than Alfred. Or at the very least, I cannot say DD is faster than the 80yr old butler of Batman.

Replace Alfred with whatever character you want - in this case, Surfer - and that's your exact statement. I could use Alfred, or Jimmy Olsen, or Perry White.....Assuming all I needed was a speed feat, that automatically puts them above DD.

Because apparently, being called faster than Flash and in the same comic beating DC's top dog to death isn't a feat.....

Edit: in short,let's approach it from your end.

DD is NOT Flash level. He's not Surfer level. So where is he? Almost every and anyone you name will have quantifiable speed feats. Is he herald level at least? Meta? Street?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except Shadow Dragon never beat the crap out of Superman. DD did.

OK, if you want to keep it to pure speed feats....

Who's faster in a foot race, Gorr or Cap America? Quantifiable running feats only please.

Maybe....Swimming? Who's faster in a swimming race, Lois Lane or Gorr?

Because at this point, where does it end? Who is faster, Flash or DD? Superman or DD? Cyborg or DD? Dr Doom or DD? Emma Frost or DD? Wolverine? Batman? Alfred? The Penguin? Thor?

All those guys have quantifiable speed feats. DD hasn't. Are you seriously going to ignore everything else, and say he's slower than all of them? That if I amped Penguin with adamantium claws, he's going to speed blitz Doomsday and cut his head off (let's assume he's been told to do so)?

That would essentially mean you're arguing that the entirety of DoS is PIS, as Superman, despite not holding back his speed, was unable to avoid DD.


You're trying real hard to make this more confusing than it actually is lol.

Doomsday, is still very fast. Fast enough to be a threat to top tiers speed wise, but in no way shape or form does that mean he can cross .5kms before Surfer moves into the air on his board. He doesn't have feats of that nature.

What I am 100% sure of is that if Surfer would engage up close like tends to do, is that he would be easily taken by surprise and knocked off his board. Doomsday is full of feats like that. But being able to blitz a light speeder from that distance, when Surfer can see him as unless its specified, they are with a visible straight shot of each other?

That's ridiculous. You still need to take into consideration of the nature of the speed feats.

I have no idea what the lois lane or Penguin examples are supposed to prove.

Of course its PIS. isn't that the conclusion we came to ? Every time Superman is hit, it is PIS ? At least for forum purposes ?

No but really, Doomsday has proven that up close he's capable of making Superman get hit from his own speed. Doesn't mean he's faster than Superman.

The Lois Lane and Penguin examples are there because celey (who I was messaging when you replied to my post) says feats > statements, and at the same time disregards tagging Superman consistently even as he comments on the speed, as a feat.

So that leaves DD with nothing.

Penguin has some speed feats, I'm pretty sure. Shite ones, but they're still there. If DD has no feats, and statements are disregarded, then.....Penguin is faster than DD. Because you have nothing to base your judgement of DDs speed on.

How fast was Supes operating? Zomgz ftl or mach? How fast was flash operating?


Yes, I accept that. He is pretty fast. No argument there.


Again that's not my argument. What's ludicrous is comparing LT to ants...
U would have been better off comparing let's say Blue Marvel to Classic Hype. Although BM seems fast and had tangled with speedsters like King Hype and and Current Hype, I'd choose Classic Hype > him in speed. Why, because he has slightly better concrete speed feats than BM. He's kept up with King Hype and Gladz. He also has on panel nanoseconds combat feats. So he has relative, statements, and raw feats covered. It's really that simple.


Lol.. No one is saying Dd has no speed feats. Not sure why u keep putting up that strawman. What i keep saying is he does not have clear, quantifiable speed feats. You said it yourself. I'm not completely disregarding his speed showings as I've repeated in some form more than once.

I've always thought Entropy Bubble ftw. Given everything Surfer can do (I mean, would anyone have guessed he could turn to snow??), I don't see an e-bubble as beyond him.

Surfer rewrites his DNA

Alberto has joined the fray.

I've yet to hear one reason any competent matter manipulator (down to at least molecular levels) or reality warper cannot simply rewrite or destroy Doomsday's DNA (molecules) and just eliminate the entire source of his abilities. His powers aren't magic or divine or anything other than biologically based due to rapid forced evolutuon.
And, "because DC writers haven't thought of it yet" isnt a reason.

You show surfer rewriting someone's DNA on the level of trans tier H/P Doomsday and then you might have a point.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You show surfer rewriting someone's DNA on the level of trans tier H/P Doomsday and then you might have a point.

Soon as you show Doomsday resisting molecular rewrite from a wielder of the power cosmic

You made the claim, you need to be able to prove it works. I don't have to prove that it doesn't, because it has yet to be established as a viable tactic. It needs proof to back it up and be taken into consideration.

Otherwise, you might as well say Surfer could do that to Imperiex. after all, Why not? Has Imperiex resisted molecule manipulation by a power cosmic wielder?

lol when ignore is your best option.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Soon as you show Doomsday resisting molecular rewrite from a wielder of the power cosmic That which is asserted without evidence is just as easily dismissed without evidence.

Both zen and accurate.

This was a beautiful read. Thank you all.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You made the claim, you need to be able to prove it works. I don't have to prove that it doesn't, because it has yet to be established as a viable tactic. It needs proof to back it up and be taken into consideration.

Otherwise, you might as well say Surfer could do that to Imperiex. after all, Why not? Has Imperiex resisted molecule manipulation by a power cosmic wielder?

Surfer literally transmutes whatever the **** he wants. Has created life on a planetary scale.....but we need "proof" he can do something as simple as rewrite the DNA of a being with zero counter to the Power Cosmic?

https://i.postimg.cc/23YPSN87/sad.jpg

Making obliterator useless by rearranging the molecules of his gun to make them shoot harmless light.

sad this even had to be posted, I'd like to believe that it wouldnt need to be shown that Surfer can and does transmute and manipulate matter at an atomic level.

It's not in question whether or not he can do it, but I cant help you if you think that him transmitting guns is the same as transmuting trans tier Doomsday.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
https://i.postimg.cc/23YPSN87/sad.jpg

Making obliterator useless by rearranging the molecules of his gun to make them shoot harmless light.

sad this even had to be posted, I'd like to believe that it wouldnt need to be shown that Surfer can and does transmute and manipulate matter at an atomic level.
So you believe that this would work on DD because it worked on a gun.....

Next thread : Surfer transmutes the Living Tribunal. Doomsday ALSO punches the LT out, as he's shown zero counters to a fist to the chin.

ss actually has a much more pertinent feat he COULD show to at least create some discussion in place of the complete disaster of an example he did show. but it wouldn't matter still. dd's ability to evolve would make that type of attack meaningless regardless.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Next thread : Surfer transmutes the Living Tribunal. Doomsday ALSO punches the LT out, as he's shown zero counters to a fist to the chin.

That three-headed freak deserves it

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
https://i.postimg.cc/23YPSN87/sad.jpg

Making obliterator useless by rearranging the molecules of his gun to make them shoot harmless light.

sad this even had to be posted, I'd like to believe that it wouldnt need to be shown that Surfer can and does transmute and manipulate matter at an atomic level. Jesus christ.

Stop.

Originally posted by MrMind
That three-headed freak deserves it

Good point.

If anything, he's three times more susceptible to chin punching.

Maths.

Three heads yet not one penis was seen.

How could that be?

By the way we are aware that HP Doomsday was temporarily wounded by an energy sword? Sure he healed from it but I don't think that would have happened so quickly if Superman had chopped Doomsday's head off.

So I if Superman was a better fighter and was able to chop Doomsday into little pieces it could be argued that Superman wouldn't have needed the entropy. An energy sword is a molecular attack ( in the sense that it can affect you on the molecular level) but not as sophisticated as what SS did to Obliterator. Obliterator looks like a subskyfather level character to me and was about to kill SS and Mantis before SS did that trick. His energy weapons were overpowering SS and they were too much for SS. Also the tech had weapons analysis and was able to deduce that Mantis was plant life and created an attack that would killer her based on her physiology (obvioulsy I have to point out that I'm not arguing Mantis =Doomsday I'm just saying the tech could do more than just brute force). So Obliterator's tech isn't just 'some gun'.

Eventhough the OP stated specifically atomize whats stopping SS from weaponzing his board? Isn't SS capable of engaging him with his other powers and then using his board to chop his head off while HP Doomsday is distracted? Is Superman's energy sword > SS board in terms of damage? Could SS 'atomize' Doomsday with his board?

Eh?

a.) That sword was New God tech.
b.) Superman's stats were significantly amped by MotherBox.
c.) It was a full-force swing followed immediately by a dose of high intensity HV.


...Despite that, it just gave DD a petty flesh wound(which he healed from nigh-instantly), because he is immensely durable/dense. IOW, Superman was physically incapable of chopping DD into tiny pieces... That small gash was all he could muster.

DD also has no organs.

So it's debatable that decapitating would even work. I mean, if he has no brain (comics, amirite??)

Originally posted by Galan007
Eh?

a.) That sword was New God tech.
b.) Superman's stats were significantly amped by MotherBox.
c.) It was a full-force swing followed immediately by a dose of high intensity HV.


a) Doesn't SS have showings that are comparable to a motherbox? For example SS was able to KO The Champion, this is by the way before he became a jobber.
b) Did it increase his stats or did it just give him weapons and a HF? Not sure if it specifically stated that.
c) Yes but it wasn't the HV that cut DD.

Originally posted by Galan007

...Despite that, it just gave DD a petty flesh wound(which he healed from nigh-instantly), because he is immensely durable/dense. IOW, Superman was physically incapable of chopping DD into tiny pieces... That small gash was all he could muster.

That didn't look like a small gash to me it looked like it was not far away from a neck size cut. Also I'm not sure if that sword is > SS's board travelling at top speed. Superman was able to distract DD and use his speed. So SS can distract DD and chop his head off, by engaging him from the front and having the board come up from behind and take his head off.



Originally posted by DarkSaint85
DD also has no organs.

So it's debatable that decapitating would even work. I mean, if he has no brain (comics, amirite??)

Based on what we saw in the comics it would work. If DD is going to close up his ears to protect his brain from sonic attacks decapitation will work.

Originally posted by Deadline
a) Based on what we saw in the comics it would work. If DD is going to close up his ears to protect his brain from sonic attacks decapitation will work. I doubt that,from anatomy of a metahuman specifically stated DD could spawn from a cell.
And in comic,DD in apokolips now been almost obliterated by entropy aegis to dust.But still returned in GOG wars story arc

Originally posted by Deadline
a) Doesn't SS have showings that are comparable to a motherbox? For example SS was able to KO The Champion, this is by the way before he became a jobber.
b) Did it increase his stats or did it just give him weapons and a HF? Not sure if it specifically stated that.
c) Yes but it wasn't the HV that cut DD. a.) Comparable in what way?

b.) MotherBox increased all of Superman's stats:
https://i.imgur.com/VsCYmay.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6AAoOWk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fsJIOHg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/npnWoUW.jpg

c.) The HV was used tactically by Superman to try and hurt DD more while he was 'injured' by the sword strike. It obviously didn't work, but still...

Originally posted by Deadline
That didn't look like a small gash to me it looked like it was not far away from a neck size cut. It was a small gash to his left flank that healed nigh-instantly:

https://i.imgur.com/GqMLImz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TXSQcC7.jpg


Don't know why you think causing such a minor injury equates to Superman(nevermind Surfer) being able to fully decapitate DD..? To do that he'd have to get through bone as well... And it should go without saying, but DD's bone structure is obviously FAR more durable than his flesh:
https://i.imgur.com/e8bHr4v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q68AaQp.jpg

Originally posted by Deadline
Also I'm not sure if that sword is > SS's board travelling at top speed. Superman was able to distract DD and use his speed. So SS can distract DD and chop his head off, by engaging him from the front and having the board come up from behind and take his head off. A piece of New God tech being swung as hard as possible by an amped Superman > a board strike from Surfer.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I doubt that,from anatomy of a metahuman specifically stated DD could spawn from a cell.
And in comic,DD in apokolips now been almost obliterated by entropy aegis to dust.But still returned in GOG war story arc

Yea but SS still wins because DD is taken out temporarily. The OP stated if SS could win not if he could beat DD permanently. Not even the entropy took DD out permanently it was still a win.

Originally posted by Galan007
Jesus christ.

Stop.

what?

Surfer can accelerate or reverse your evolution. What's DD counter to that?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Surfer can accelerate or reverse your evolution. What's DD counter to that?

You tell me Alberto

Since your own evolution is already reversed

Looking at the absolute state of some posters, I'm starting to get nostalgic for Carver.

Silber Urper matter manipulates DD's neck and his head falls off and his body shoots out harmless light out of said neck.

Can Surfer transmute the Hulk?

Hulk isn't made of matter, he's made of RAGE

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Can Surfer transmute the Hulk?

Not sure, but I'm betting that he could trap him in his board and remotely fly him into star. Actually, he can and has. He took full control of the Hulk's powers reverting him back to Banner. He also messed with Lunatik's genes, which made it improbable for him to leave an alien planet.

Why are you suddenly unsure if Surfer can mess with Hulk's DNA?

Well I'm actually positive that he can. Read my entire post.

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) Comparable in what way?

That SS can do comparable damage to motherbox Superman.
1. SS has koed a non jobbing Champion. That Champions was trans, so is HP Doomsday.
2. Been able to match Thanos's energy output while in a weakened state.
3. Was able to transmute Obilterator's tech. I'm not sure why this is such a bad example when a significant portion of his powers comes from his tech. Obilterator is trans and his tech makes him so. SS was not able to match him in offensive energy and his tech was also highly durable. It was able to withstand the heat emersed in a molten planetoid and his body armour wasn't damaged by an angry SS charging it with his board (SS thought Obilterator had killed Mantis). This doesn't nccesarily contradict that he could chop his head off because a precise, calculated attack is more deadly than an attack done in blind rage.

Originally posted by Galan007

b.) MotherBox increased all of Superman's stats:
https://i.imgur.com/VsCYmay.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6AAoOWk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fsJIOHg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/npnWoUW.jpg

c.) The HV was used tactically by Superman to try and hurt DD more while he was 'injured' by the sword strike. It obviously didn't work, but still...


It didn't state to what level it amped his abilities. I suspect if had been a massive boost to his abilities I think it would have said so. The amp could have been as little as 10% or 20%. If that's the case don't see why we would think that Superman is beyond SS in power.

Originally posted by Galan007

It was a small gash to his left flank that healed nigh-instantly:

https://i.imgur.com/GqMLImz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TXSQcC7.jpg


It's not a small gash, let me rephrase that if that was his neck that's a large portion of it gone. It didn't heal instantly it took more than a few seconds, with somebody who can react in nanoseconds that's a long time.

Originally posted by Galan007

Don't know why you think causing such a minor injury equates to Superman(nevermind Surfer) being able to fully decapitate DD..? To do that he'd have to get through bone as well... And it should go without saying, but DD's bone structure is obviously FAR more durable than his flesh:
https://i.imgur.com/e8bHr4v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q68AaQp.jpg


That doesn't neccesarily prove anything. The artist might have simply wanted to draw it that way. Most importantly in that comic Superman was able to break some of Doomsday's bone claws with one hand why would I assume that if he went for his neck with two hands he couldn't slice through it?



Originally posted by Galan007

A piece of New God tech being swung as hard as possible by an amped Superman > a board strike from Surfer.

You haven't specified how powerful the amp was. We know in comics that speed can massively increase your power why on earth couldn't SS's board travelling many times the speed of light not be able to produce more power than Superman standing still?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not saying that HP DD isn't durable enough to withstand such an attack, but I'm not sure why it'd be out of character for Surfer to decapitate DD with his board. We're not talking about a hero or anything like that, DD is basically a monster and Surfer's done such things to monsters before...

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/f/90/4c8a9faeb239c/detail.jpg

Hasn't Surfer been able to KO Hulk with his board?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not sure why teleporting him to the end of time would be necessary just for a forum win. Supes and Waverider were concerned with totally removing DD from the equation, so a temporary win wouldn't do for them. Any form of BFR would suffice for a forum win. And personally I've never understood why solar draining against HP DD to bring him back down to grey suit DOS DD levels isn't an option for someone like Surfer, but hey maybe that's just me.

Now there's an idea...a solar drain. 🤔

Doomsdays adaptability should let him cut the process off mid attack, unless he drains him near instantly, which seems unlikely.

But it should still be at least moderately effective.

So what's stopping DD from draining Surfer to a far easier degree? Surfer has the worst record vs power absorption of nearly any top tier.

Surfer wins.

OP says this is blasty blast only no? Hard to see him winning. Stalemate at best.

Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Keep in mind this after Doomsday had already survived the full destructive energy of a Guardian (another being vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd) sacrificing himself at a far weaker level than what he was when he first lost to Superman who had to go ALL OUT to defeat.

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?

How powerful do these same posters think Darkseid, Wave Rider, Guardians, Superman, Imperiex Probes, and the rest of the Justice League are? Since Norrin Radd is going to be slicing Doomsday to pieces and turning him into a cupcake with a wave of his hand?

Is this the Molecule Man vs Doomsday or Silver Sufer?

Originally posted by Sensui
Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Keep in mind this after Doomsday had already survived the full destructive energy of a Guardian (another being vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd) sacrificing himself at a far weaker level than what he was when he first lost to Superman who had to go ALL OUT to defeat.

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?

How powerful do these same posters think Darkseid, Wave Rider, Guardians, Superman, Imperiex Probes, and the rest of the Justice League are? Since Norrin Radd is going to be slicing Doomsday to pieces and turning him into a cupcake with a wave of his hand?

Is this the Molecule Man vs Doomsday or Silver Sufer?

Beautiful post
Couldn't have said it better myself

Originally posted by Sensui
Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Keep in mind this after Doomsday had already survived the full destructive energy of a Guardian (another being vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd) sacrificing himself at a far weaker level than what he was when he first lost to Superman who had to go ALL OUT to defeat.

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?

How powerful do these same posters think Darkseid, Wave Rider, Guardians, Superman, Imperiex Probes, and the rest of the Justice League are? Since Norrin Radd is going to be slicing Doomsday to pieces and turning him into a cupcake with a wave of his hand?

Is this the Molecule Man vs Doomsday or Silver Sufer?

Savage

Originally posted by Sensui
Doomsday wins and ain't even close.

Here's Doomsday, a being that overpowered Darkseid (a character vastly more powerful than Norrin Radd who has NO HISTORY of defeating a Darkseid level being, given his PATHETIC combat history against Thanos), countered and defeated the TEMPORAL Energies of Waverider, a universal temporal manipulator also more powerful than Norrin Radd, and walked through a MASSIVELY amped Superman who before he used the Motherbox (a new god technological device that can literally make folks one with Multiverse like Cyborg and can easily absorb the energies of the entire Oan Central Battery) and still came up short against Doomsday and needed the energy of Entropy at the end of the Universe to stop him.

Completely forgot about HP Doomsday beating Darkseid haven't read it in ages. I was simply going through HP Doomsday issue 3 and forgot the rest. He has been able to beat Champion and Obilterator who are both trans tier. This is what Champion has been capable of doing and this before he start jobbing.. Champions previous showings were referenced in the comicbook.

https://imgur.com/a/dLFL7Sx

Originally posted by Sensui

And yet we've got posters talking about Norrin Radd cutting off Doomsday's head?!!!! When the heck has the Power Cosmic Loser to Thor managed to cut off ANYONE's head that is as Invulnerable as Doomsday? Where has Norrin Radd transformed someone as durable as Doomsday into another element? Cause he manipulated the molecules of a damn hand gun? Cause he once did something on a planetary level?


SS didn't just transmute a gun it was technology from an Elder of The Universe those guys are in trans teir and as I pointed out that tech was overpowering SS. He didn't just transmute the gun it was his whole tech.

Well he was able to easily stun a angry Hulk. It didn't loook like the board was going anywhere near top speed.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5060040

Maybe the Hulk was weakened so.... To be fair Thanos did compare Champion with power gem to Hulk.

Just to point out regarding draining:

DoS Doomsday went 150,000 years without sunlight, buried underground, wrapped in a shroud. After being killed (so had his reserves emptied as it were).

Is he still dependent on sunlight? Arguably no.

Originally posted by Deadline
That SS can do comparable damage to motherbox Superman.
1. SS has koed a non jobbing Champion. That Champions was trans, so is HP Doomsday. H/P Doomsday slaughtered Darkseid and numerous Imperiex Probes like they were low-level fodder(among many, many others.) The thought of him 'only' being trans-level is funny.

Originally posted by Deadline
It didn't state to what level it amped his abilities. It should be noted that at this point in his chronology, Superman's natural powers were already MASSIVELY amped due to his exposure to Kryptonite X...

When Henshaw attempted to kill Supes via blasting him with k-nite, Eradicator jumped in the way of the blast before it directly touched Supes(essentially sacrificing himself), and the bleed-over energies then passed into Superman. After this happened, Supes was not only returned to full power, but he felt better than ever:
https://i.imgur.com/A5Fc715.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZUOr1em.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IMFlneF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PpaVx4Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JqED6sp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TL1K0F7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jsqwvoo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uYRKnL.jpg
"I'm rejuvenated in a way I never thought possible! Something tells me I'll be able to handle anything better than ever!"
______________________________________

Soon thereafter(the same month/year the H/P arc began), it would be revealed that Superman had become immensely more powerful. Examples...

"Just tapped him a little... And he flew back like I hit him with my best haymaker!":
https://i.imgur.com/KgUftR4.jpg

"Even using as little effort as possible, I'm still stronger...faster...and more powerful than EVER before!":
https://i.imgur.com/vyiofCJ.jpg
______________________________________

Superman's amp was then expanded on...

Hamilton: "You're absorbing solar radiation --and OTHER energies-- much faster than EVER before! This is because you've been irradiated by something vaguely familiar to Kryptonite -- call it Kryptonite-X."

Superman: "The last time I was exposed to Kryptonite, it passed through the Eradiactor first... Recharging my powers instantly!"

Hamilton: "A bit of foreshadowing there, I'd say. Bluntly, there's no physical way to expend your energy fast enough. Your powers will keep increasing until your body can't contain them.":
https://i.imgur.com/O04ni6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kuppq8g.jpg
______________________________________

Superman himself mentioned his increased power during the H/P arc(before he had even obtained a MotherBox)...

"I'm BETTER than before, too! STRONGER.":
https://i.imgur.com/DNjZeeh.jpg
______________________________________

His amplified power during the H/P-era was reinforced again here...

"After his recovery, was stronger than EVER. Good thing, too -- 'cause Doomsday had cheated death as well! Even with the EXTRA power, he still needed some gizmo called a 'Mother Box' to HELP HIM stand up to Doomsday.":
https://i.imgur.com/xTntuCb.jpg



So as you can see- during the events of the H/P arc, Superman's natural abilities were hyper-amped to such an extent that he compared the power behind his LIGHTEST TAP to that of his BEST HAYMAKER before the amp.. And what was his BEST HAYMAKER previously? I'd say it was undoubtedly the final blow he used to 'kill' DoS Doomsday:
https://i.imgur.com/6dZAU4m.jpg

...Food for thought.


That being said, MotherBox sensed the threat H/P Doomsday posed, and amped/equipped Superman specifically to handle him. IOW, it was an AMP on top of Superman's existing AMP:
https://i.imgur.com/4RGKnUR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9SoKBzh.jpg
"MotherBox sensed the situation, and armed me for battle with Doomsday! Hopefully I've caught up to Doomsday's next level of evolution!"

...Yet the amp it gleaned STILL wasn't remotely enough to contend with Doomsday, which is absolutely staggering given what MotherBox can do.

Originally posted by Deadline
It's not a small gash, let me rephrase that if that was his neck that's a large portion of it gone. It didn't heal instantly it took more than a few seconds, with somebody who can react in nanoseconds that's a long time. It's a very small gash relative to Doomsday's person, lol. Moreover, Doomsday pulled the sword out and in the next panel the wound is healed. So yes, DD healed nigh-instantly, as I've been saying.

Originally posted by Deadline
That doesn't neccesarily prove anything. The artist might have simply wanted to draw it that way. Correct. The artist 'drew it' the exact way I'm describing: DD's flesh was atomized by Imperiex's entropic blast, while his bone structure remained intact. Ergo DD's bones are VASTLY more durable than his flesh.

Originally posted by Deadline
Most importantly in that comic Superman was able to break some of Doomsday's bone claws with one hand Are you talking about Superman managing to break the knee-protrusion of Doomsday during DoS? First and foremost, that was a far inferior version of DD than the one being discussed here.

Originally posted by Deadline
why would I assume that if he went for his neck with two hands he couldn't slice through it? Because an all-out strike from a MASSIVELY AMPED Superman only managed to give DD a minor fleshwound... Yet you'd have me believe that Superman(let alone Surfer) could have sliced through DD's BONES as well? Give me a break.

Originally posted by Deadline
You haven't specified how powerful the amp was. *see above*

Originally posted by Deadline
We know in comics that speed can massively increase your power why on earth couldn't SS's board travelling many times the speed of light not be able to produce more power than Superman standing still? Do I think a board-strike from Surfer is even remotely comparable to the power a MASSIVELY AMPED Superman can generate with an all-out swing from a New Genosian sword? Lol, absolutely not.

Aside from that, who is the strongest and most durable being that Surfer has bisected with a board-strike?

Doesn't Apokoliptian smog cover the planet, blocking sunlight, Galan?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Doesn't Apokoliptian smog cover the planet, blocking sunlight, Galan? Not entirely sure.

However, I am confident that Doomsday's power isn't wholly dependent on solar radiation. As you mentioned, Bertron stated that Doomsday's body was nourished by solar energy that he could store for "A millennium"(ie. 1,000 years) if need be:
https://i.imgur.com/7ZUmxPX.jpg

But as of the Annual, a 'dead' Doomsday, whose energy reserves would've already been completely expended, was imprisoned for ~250,000 years in a sealed box, and buried thousands of feet underground on earth -- obviously NO solar energy of any type was able to reach him during this time. Despite this, DD still ultimately managed to recover/heal from his 'death' at the hands of Radiant, break free of said prison, and go on his tirade during DoS... And considering that even his deepest reserves of solar energy would have been entirely depleted for hundredS of thousandS of yearS by the time of DoS, it is perfectly logical to assume that he simply adapted beyond the need for any sort of solar nourishment... Adapting to become more 'perfect' is DD's whole shtick, after all.

...There's also the fact that Krypton(where DD was created) didn't even have a yellow sun, iirc, so exactly what type of solar energy would have 'nourished' DD in the first place? Just the red spectrum, or...?

@ds--yes it does.

@stoic--no, i do NOT think surfer is capable of meddling with dd's genetics. you're comparing evolving all the people on a planet--which is a cool feat--but not one of those beings was remotely comparable to dd. jonn and prof x are both easily capable of reading the minds of an entire planet. but have them try and read the mind of a SINGLE high level tp and what happens? SCOPE and DEPTH of power are wildly different in most cases. this would be one imo.

this is a being darkseid was VISIBLY afraid of. that speaks VOLUMES. darkseid's omega beams have some crazy feats--including....evolving a disintegrated desaad. the beams can do pretty much anything. we don't often think of them as versatile, but they are--enormously. take 5 mins to check out some of the feats they have. in their own way, the OE is nearly as versatile as ss.

and yet darkseid was AFRAID of dd and even went so far as to claim he was BEYOND death.

the implication is clear as day to me--dd was beyond darkseid's power. even the initial OE only worked for a very brief period of time before he evolved against it. given the feat history of the omega effect that is a pretty staggering thing. dd was evolving against superman on the fly as well. in addition, we know temporal powers had no effect on dd directly and again, looking at waverider's powers and feats, that is also staggering.

so we have an amped superman with a MB, waverider and darkseid, all utterly ineffective against this version of dd. each has access to hugely versatile feats. imo that puts dd on a level well beyond what ss would be able to affect--at least for long. i could see him devolving dd to a puddle, then turning around thinking he'd won, only to have dd rise and kill him. dd is simply on a level beyond ss.

as for sunlight--he went without for 250 000 years or something--and when he first woke up was still powerful enough to demolish the league--with ease.

in short, i don't see anyway at all ss could drain him to a point where dd would be weak enough for ss to finish--not before dd killed him. we could suppose he flies around trying to constantly drain him from a distance (confined by the bf), but he's never really done anything like that, afaik, and dd is plenty fast as well. he'd hit ss at some point for for. i'm still unsure if he was flying in owaw as well, but i know he did evolve the ability to fly by the time the gog wars version arrived so evolving flight is not out of the question either if it were actually required. it wasn't in that final battle with superman waverider.

@galan.

Originally posted by Galan007
It should be noted that at this point in his chronology, Superman's natural powers were already MASSIVELY amped due to his exposure to Kryptonite X...

When Henshaw attempted to kill Supes via blasting him with k-nite, Eradicator jumped in the way of the blast before it directly touched Supes(essentially sacrificing himself), and the bleed-over energies then passed into Superman. After this happened, Supes was not only returned to full power, but he felt better than ever:
https://i.imgur.com/A5Fc715.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZUOr1em.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IMFlneF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PpaVx4Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JqED6sp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TL1K0F7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jsqwvoo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uYRKnL.jpg
"I'm rejuvenated in a way I never thought possible! Something tells me I'll be able to handle anything better than ever!"
______________________________________

Soon thereafter(the same month/year the H/P arc began), it would be revealed that Superman had become immensely more powerful. Examples...

"Just tapped him a little... And he flew back like I hit him with my best haymaker!":
https://i.imgur.com/KgUftR4.jpg

"Even using as little effort as possible, I'm still stronger...faster...and more powerful than EVER before!":
https://i.imgur.com/vyiofCJ.jpg
______________________________________

Superman's amp was then expanded on...

Hamilton: "You're absorbing solar radiation --and OTHER energies-- much faster than EVER before! This is because you've been irradiated by something vaguely familiar to Kryptonite -- call it Kryptonite-X."

Superman: "The last time I was exposed to Kryptonite, it passed through the Eradiactor first... Recharging my powers instantly!"

Hamilton: "A bit of foreshadowing there, I'd say. Bluntly, there's no physical way to expend your energy fast enough. Your powers will keep increasing until your body can't contain them.":
https://i.imgur.com/O04ni6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kuppq8g.jpg
______________________________________

Superman himself mentioned his increased power during the H/P arc(before he had even obtained a MotherBox)...

"I'm BETTER than before, too! STRONGER.":
https://i.imgur.com/DNjZeeh.jpg
______________________________________

His amplified power during the H/P-era was reinforced again here...

"After his recovery, was stronger than EVER. Good thing, too -- 'cause Doomsday had cheated death as well! Even with the EXTRA power, he still needed some gizmo called a 'Mother Box' to HELP HIM stand up to Doomsday.":
https://i.imgur.com/xTntuCb.jpg



So as you can see- during the events of the H/P arc, Superman's natural abilities were hyper-amped to such an extent that he compared the power behind his LIGHTEST TAP to that of his BEST HAYMAKER before the amp.. And what was his BEST HAYMAKER previously? I'd say it was undoubtedly the final blow he used to 'kill' DoS Doomsday:
https://i.imgur.com/6dZAU4m.jpg

...Food for thought.


That being said, MotherBox sensed the threat H/P Doomsday posed, and amped/equipped Superman specifically to handle him. IOW, it was an AMP on top of Superman's existing AMP:
https://i.imgur.com/4RGKnUR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9SoKBzh.jpg
"MotherBox sensed the situation, and armed me for battle with Doomsday! Hopefully I've caught up to Doomsday's next level of evolution!"

...Yet the amp it gleaned STILL wasn't remotely enough to contend with Doomsday, which is absolutely staggering given what MotherBox can do./B] wow. didnt actually realize how powerful superman and doomsday were. great post

loki...?

Imagine not knowing that DNA is comprised of molecules called nucleotides. And the ability to manipulate said molecules gives one the master key to that DNA holder's entire physiology.

Because a Darkseid avatar trying to box with Doomsday and Surfer using his massive hax to alter Doomsday's DNA are even remotely comparable right?

Surfer is shown accelerating dudes evolution.
https://i.postimg.cc/47FsSXfj/pgli.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Imagine not knowing that DNA is comprised of molecules called nucleotides. And the ability to manipulate said molecules gives one the master key to that DNA holder's entire physiology.

Because a Darkseid avatar trying to box with Doomsday and Surfer using his massive hax to alter Doomsday's DNA are even remotely comparable right?

Surfer is shown accelerating dudes evolution.
https://i.postimg.cc/47FsSXfj/pgli.jpg

..and that Darkseid avatar>>>Surfer and Thor together. Cry more.

Again anti energy defenses against the Radiant. Instantly adapted to Waverider. That is TWO flagrant Surfer analogues he wrecked with ease.

And that dude is nothing compared to a Mangog level being like Doomsday.

Originally posted by leonidas
loki...?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Imagine not knowing that DNA is comprised of molecules called nucleotides. And the ability to manipulate said molecules gives one the master key to that DNA holder's entire physiology.

Because a Darkseid avatar trying to box with Doomsday and Surfer using his massive hax to alter Doomsday's DNA are even remotely comparable right?

Surfer is shown accelerating dudes evolution.
https://i.postimg.cc/47FsSXfj/pgli.jpg

imagine not knowing... wtf are you talking about? darkseid LITERALLY rebuilt desaad--a new god--from nothingness after completely disintegrating him. nearly anything ss can do with pc ds can do with the oe only at a far greater level and dd treated ds like a child and nearly immediately evolved beyond the oe.

there is not a single ss scan you can show that i haven't seen. it's a pity your comprehension doesn't extend to inferencing and understanding implicit messages (or explicit, apparently.)

i've seen enough of your nonsense to know its pointless to talk to you though. carry on.

Leo knows nothing about Surfer, as you can plainly see from his signature. Mjolnir indeed.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Surfer is shown accelerating dudes evolution.
https://i.postimg.cc/47FsSXfj/pgli.jpg And this proves what, exactly? That Surfer would try and speed up Doomsday's evolution here?

Lol, good lord.

Translation: *Darkseid didn't even try something in a comic(written to make DD look invincible), that according to me he can do.... so that means that Surfer can't do something he obviously is capable of*

Originally posted by Galan007
H/P Doomsday slaughtered Darkseid and numerous Imperiex Probes like they were low-level fodder(among many, many others.) The thought of him 'only' being trans-level is funny.

It should be noted that at this point in his chronology, Superman's natural powers were already MASSIVELY amped due to his exposure to Kryptonite X...

When Henshaw attempted to kill Supes via blasting him with k-nite, Eradicator jumped in the way of the blast before it directly touched Supes(essentially sacrificing himself), and the bleed-over energies then passed into Superman. After this happened, Supes was not only returned to full power, but he felt better than ever:
https://i.imgur.com/A5Fc715.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZUOr1em.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IMFlneF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PpaVx4Q.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JqED6sp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TL1K0F7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jsqwvoo.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8uYRKnL.jpg
"I'm rejuvenated in a way I never thought possible! Something tells me I'll be able to handle anything better than ever!"
______________________________________

Soon thereafter(the same month/year the H/P arc began), it would be revealed that Superman had become immensely more powerful. Examples...

"Just tapped him a little... And he flew back like I hit him with my best haymaker!":
https://i.imgur.com/KgUftR4.jpg

"Even using as little effort as possible, I'm still stronger...faster...and more powerful than EVER before!":
https://i.imgur.com/vyiofCJ.jpg
______________________________________

Superman's amp was then expanded on...

Hamilton: "You're absorbing solar radiation --and OTHER energies-- much faster than EVER before! This is because you've been irradiated by something vaguely familiar to Kryptonite -- call it Kryptonite-X."

Superman: "The last time I was exposed to Kryptonite, it passed through the Eradiactor first... Recharging my powers instantly!"

Hamilton: "A bit of foreshadowing there, I'd say. Bluntly, there's no physical way to expend your energy fast enough. Your powers will keep increasing until your body can't contain them.":
https://i.imgur.com/O04ni6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kuppq8g.jpg
______________________________________

Superman himself mentioned his increased power during the H/P arc(before he had even obtained a MotherBox)...

"I'm BETTER than before, too! STRONGER.":
https://i.imgur.com/DNjZeeh.jpg
______________________________________

His amplified power during the H/P-era was reinforced again here...

"After his recovery, was stronger than EVER. Good thing, too -- 'cause Doomsday had cheated death as well! Even with the EXTRA power, he still needed some gizmo called a 'Mother Box' to HELP HIM stand up to Doomsday.":
https://i.imgur.com/xTntuCb.jpg



So as you can see- during the events of the H/P arc, Superman's natural abilities were hyper-amped to such an extent that he compared the power behind his LIGHTEST TAP to that of his BEST HAYMAKER before the amp.. And what was his BEST HAYMAKER previously? I'd say it was undoubtedly the final blow he used to 'kill' DoS Doomsday:
https://i.imgur.com/6dZAU4m.jpg

...Food for thought.


That being said, MotherBox sensed the threat H/P Doomsday posed, and amped/equipped Superman specifically to handle him. IOW, it was an AMP on top of Superman's existing AMP:
https://i.imgur.com/4RGKnUR.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9SoKBzh.jpg
"MotherBox sensed the situation, and armed me for battle with Doomsday! Hopefully I've caught up to Doomsday's next level of evolution!"

...Yet the amp it gleaned STILL wasn't remotely enough to contend with Doomsday, which is absolutely staggering given what MotherBox can do.

It's a very small gash relative to Doomsday's person, lol. Moreover, Doomsday pulled the sword out and in the next panel the wound is healed. So yes, DD healed nigh-instantly, as I've been saying.

Correct. The artist 'drew it' the exact way I'm describing: DD's flesh was atomized by Imperiex's entropic blast, while his bone structure remained intact. Ergo DD's bones are VASTLY more durable than his flesh.

Are you talking about Superman managing to break the knee-protrusion of Doomsday during DoS? First and foremost, that was a far inferior version of DD than the one being discussed here.

Because an all-out strike from a MASSIVELY AMPED Superman only managed to give DD a minor fleshwound... Yet you'd have me believe that Superman(let alone Surfer) could have sliced through DD's BONES as well? Give me a break.

*see above*

Do I think a board-strike from Surfer is even remotely comparable to the power a MASSIVELY AMPED Superman can generate with an all-out swing from a New Genosian sword? Lol, absolutely not.

Aside from that, who is the strongest and most durable being that Surfer has bisected with a board-strike?

https://enuze.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/us-intelligence-has-known-russian-hackers-infiltrated-power-grids-for-months.gif

Originally posted by Ambient
How fast exactly can DD's evolving powers work? Pretty fast.

The moment something 'new' was used against him...even if it was only used for a moment...he adapted to counter it entirely.

Superman initially thought that his flight would be enough to keep him out of Doomsday's reach. Doomsday then evolved the ability to shoot his claws out of his fists at very high speed, and reel them back in at will...on the fly:
https://i.imgur.com/4vqD7QD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ldTXr32.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6n3dA5j.jpg
*Note that his claws were also equipped with a poison that was potent enough to affect Superman. That seemed like a newly-evolved ability as well.

A page or so later, DD adapted beyond the New Genosian 'Ultrasonics' that Superman was actively using against him...also on the fly:
https://i.imgur.com/8PChZAa.jpg

We saw this again when Waverider used his powers on DD for a brief moment, just to glimpse his personal timeline:
https://i.imgur.com/jWBXyEa.jpg

When Waverider attempted to use his powers in a completely different manner against DD a few pages later, we find that DD was not only immune to his temporal energy all together, but was able to cause a feedback in Waverider that sent his cumulative energies hurling out of control:
https://i.imgur.com/TxVkNMa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/e82y4rH.jpg


IOW, a single use of the power cosmic against DD here...no matter how rudimentary...could very well render DD immune to the power cosmic across the board(at least where Surfer's application of it is concerned.) Just like we saw with Waverider.