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3 posts - opener - rebuttal -closer

Fighting on oppostite ends of the globe

Darksaint - Flash (Wally)

Alberto - Thor (Odinson)
https://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Flash1.jpg

vs

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111202308/5253561-3046183-4971655227-29326.png

Standard rules, no BFR, win via incapacitation, death or KO.

Alberto opener:

So judges. Thank you for your patience.

But it was not needed - for I have already won.

Read my opponent's OP again:



IOW, 'I fully recognise that Flash is faster, and has the first strike advantage - therefore, I agree the first attack belongs to him'.

Now, what was my first attack?



Game, set, match. Wally has stolen the speed of the entire planet, not once, but twice (the first time being in the race with Kraakl, and the second posted here). He didn't need line of sight, but even if he did, I posted a scan of him casually crossing the Earth:
https://i.postimg.cc/QMPTZL9v/32.jpg

The distance is 12,430 miles. Assuming Flash is ONLY travelling at lightspeed, that makes it....0.07 seconds, lol.

And then, ASSUMING I needed to do more.....I could just open a portal to the Speed Force, and hold Thor there:
https://i.postimg.cc/BvykgqZw/17.jpg

The Sun burnt his entire arm off. Infinite energy would destroy him.

And I don't even need to touch him:
https://i.postimg.cc/pd3tyVKB/flamagneta11.jpg

Or I could just explode him (remember, I have infinite energy at my fingertips):
https://i.postimg.cc/jj9GRy9j/o0UP9BA.jpg

I simply MUST address one point, though. Not that he EVER had a snowball's chance in hell, but his main offensive tactic? That was to drain me.

Cast your mind back, judges, to the 90s. A supervillain by the name of Savitar, who had dedicated HIS ENTIRE LIFE to studying the Speed Force, came and waged a war against all speedsters. Drained their energy using speedsteal tricks.

Except for Wally:
https://i.postimg.cc/nL5yYNv2/spedclosete.jpg

Judges, in summary:
His defence, gone/nonexistent. He gambled on me punching really hard, and Thor weathering it. But he has no defence against my speed, nor against my speedsteal.

His offense, IF he manages to even try it? Nonexistent. Wally is so closely tied to the speed force, villains whose main power is doing PRECISELY that are unable to do so with him.

ok 1.

https://postimg.cc/t13TFMzz

"Outrunning time" which what Wally was doing in that scan is a vague, non-quantifiable, DC concept. In DC, the "Time barrier" can be broken by moving beyond lightspeed, Speed is Distance/Time. Once you can no longer figure out how far someone traveled, in a certain measurable amount of time, you're no longer talking about Speed and it becomes Non-quantifiable


About this scan where Wally "speed stole" the entire planet?
Justice League of America #75.


Increasing the size of Wonder Woman's lasso, he sends her, Superman and Martian Manhunter to drag the Earth back into orbit. Flash goes to the North Pole to absorb the stress they are putting on the Earth's surface.

Here's the page preceding the one people cite for Flash.

https://imgur.com/a/Lm7JgWn

Diana's Lasso of Truth was increased in size to wrap around the planet, so she, Martian Manhunter and Superman can pull the Earth back into orbit after a villain throws enough water into orbit to disrupt said orbit. What Flash actually does is absorb the kinetic energy of the stress those three are putting on the Earth.
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/JLA-1997/Issue-75?id=39341

So no, not a straight up "speed steal".


Speed is much irrelevant here. Omni directional cosmic lightning https://imgur.com/a/RDjaKR8

Thor can literally kill Wally with an AOE cosmic lightning, Dodging is pointless if there's nowhere to dodge to. for reference in Avengers Assemble #8 Thor's lighting was able to cover up cosmic Cube Thanos who massively dwarfed planets in size
https://imgur.com/a/Y6Uqi2G


https://imgur.com/a/paOak2T

https://imgur.com/a/oUZTnHk

His lightning once spreaded across the entire moon
https://imgur.com/a/qOfsIfQ



Did you read your own scan? he specifically says all he was only able to take was Amazo's super speed bexause he was so wounded, they can only take X amount of KE. Flash took X amount, and all it did was make Amazo not as fast as Flash. Flash is really fast, so that's not a bad feat by any metric.


Justice League of America #23 Amazo is shown moving still
https://imgur.com/a/CREwk5G

https://imgur.com/a/BfHB8c5

One thing about Thor is he's far more versatile for example, he can a swirl of the hammer to erase your memories of everything
leaving you mentally nothing

https://imgur.com/a/HSDjCs0

Control gravity to keeping you grounded and negate your speed. so much for speed huh?
https://imgur.com/a/grkQ1AU

Thor himself has shown the ability to stop time. whats speed gonna do If decides to stop time in a localized area around Diana?
https://imgur.com/a/IAIpHWh

for reference Here's Bruce banner explaining why thors able to manipulate time. It's because of his hammer being made of Uru. With when span at a high enough speed
https://imgur.com/a/NLwVyn9

Also does anyone remember the time young Thor his Gorr so hard it's opened up a worm hole sending him to another place in space? I do
https://imgur.com/a/VoCkBFQ


Wally's outclassed here.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
ok 1.

https://postimg.cc/t13TFMzz

"Outrunning time" which what Wally was doing in that scan is a vague, non-quantifiable, DC concept. In DC, the "Time barrier" can be broken by moving beyond lightspeed, Speed is Distance/Time. Once you can no longer figure out how far someone traveled, in a certain measurable amount of time, you're no longer talking about Speed and it becomes Non-quantifiable
Read the scan again.

It starts with the sound barrier. Then the lightspeed barrier. THEN the time barrier.

Read your VERY OWN words:


IOW, as per YOUR words, to break the time barrier, one must FIRST break the lightspeed barrier. Read my other scans, where Wally is confirmed by Jay to be FTL.

But this is all moot, and a red herring, judges!! Don't be distracted!!! We all agree - hell, this entire BZ challenge occurred as a result of the fact - that Thor is far far slower than anything being presented here.


Read Wally' OWN words: It's like absorbing the energy of a bullet. Only bigger. A LOT &^%&&% bigger:
https://i.postimg.cc/1Rf2L03B/26.jpg

What does Wally do with bullets?
https://i.postimg.cc/MG4K6N2B/41.jpg

At this point, my opponent is just throwing semantics around, judges. Don't be fooled.

Match starts, and Thor is frozen.



I'm going to be honest here, judges. I didn't click a single one of those scans.

YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER.

Sure, I'm 100% in agreement that Thor is powerful. 10,000% in agreement. I also agree that he's versatile as phuck. I'm NOT disputing that.

That's the respect, now the disrespect.

Remember this:
http://i.imgur.com/33SaQEY.gif

That's two HUMAN level guys, facing off. No matter what the other guy does, though, he's simply too slow for Tyson. One opening, was all Tyson needed, and he took it. And he won. Here, the gap - even BEFORE the speedsteal - is so astronomical that it beggars belief. Thor struggles against speedsters Wally would outreact and blitz.

Here, a VERY young Wally (who still didn't know how to timetravel) was fast enough to fool ZOOM:
https://i.postimg.cc/Xvm6fLmw/zomfaeye3.jpg

Let that sink it. Zoom.

Who cares that Thor can summon lightning? He's never getting the chance to do it against ONE Wally, let alone an entire army of Wally's, let alone when he's being slowed/frozen. Keep this scene in mind, only, imagine they're Flashes instead of Gogs:
https://i.postimg.cc/qBXzKf5K/5EZvoLO.jpg



So many holes to pick here.

1. Wally isn't badly injured in this BZ match, he's as fresh as a daisy. So being able to speedsteal a trans-level character whilst half dead? Amazing feat.

2. They can ONLY take X amount of energy??? Really??

https://i.postimg.cc/g0Qk1XHV/overload.jpg
An 'endless supply at my fingertips'.

At his VERY first attempt, he stole all the speed right out of another speedster:
https://i.postimg.cc/Zq290CtV/1.jpg

3. So what is your argument now....that Flash CAN take Thor's superspeed, leaving Thor...slower?

IOW, Flash - Wally West - the Flash who breaks the lightspeed barrier for fun - is too fast for Zoom to see - is now facing, what, a human level Thor?

Lol, OK. I can roll with that.


All fun looking, interesting sounding feats. Didn't open any of them - I suspect (judges, tell me if I'm right) that they all involve Thor either needing a distraction, OR taking time to twirl his hammer? I mean, are we really going to say he's going to be able to do it against a - no, THE FTL speedster? Whilst possessing NO superspeed? Versatility, sure, Thor has it in spades. But he's not even going to be able to grasp the fact that he's being beaten, so quickly would the fight end.

Who wins in a fight, a trained sniper from 100m away or a guy with a Swiss Army knife that can also open bottles and cans?

Remember how this BZ challenge started:
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
....Yeah I don't really got nothing for Diana's speed. took me awhile but even if I brought him holding back against mortals he'd still be at a massive disadvantage. ex Flash, (should've rethought this)
etc etc it's kinda difficult to make a case for Thor's history against speedsters to be honest. apologies Damb.

Summary
Judges, real talk. My opponent acknowledges that Thor's history against speedsters (all of whom are nowhere near Wally) sucks. He acknowledges that Wally would be able to land the first hits:


Of course, he gambled poorly, and didn't realise that I was actually speedstealing instead. Making Thor EVEN SLOWER.

But even after being shown it, he acknowledges that it worked against Amazo. So....Thor now has what little superspeed he had, taken away.

That was ONE Flash.

ONE.

Now, we have an entire army. If I am being charitable, I could just leave him frozen. If not, well, see my OP.

Thanks for reading.

Good job to both ! Congratulations to DS

Thank you judges.

Thanks all!