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https://i.postimg.cc/Yh7VBmhV/psw.jpg

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Who wins?

classic starbrand wins, current loses

Starbrand casually beat Thor, Hyperion, Doctor Strange, and Hulk. While holding back.


So this is a decent fight, considering Superman can do the same.

Hm why so?
current Starbrand Oneshots graviton ,nitro and blizzard While they were powered by eternities childern
https://imgur.com/a/1YsZcND

Nullifies energy.
https://imgur.com/a/kuFKQOJ

Apart from that Starbrand has swept a builders fleet with a wave of his hand
Same builders that put Mother of the universe in a coma, By the end of his mini series post secret wars
He can control his power output.

Superman is subject to many non direct attacks.

Yeah, Starbrand.

Any non-Ellis/Hickman version of the Starbrand should win.

Superman resisted 5d imp power.

Where is the voice of reason, Abhi, when you need him? Is there an h1-b signal? Basically the Bat Signal for Indians?

Bruh

Star brand stomps.

Star brand has done nothing beyond Superman at peak capacity.

Superman 6/10.

Originally posted by carver9
Star brand stomps.

Which powerful characters has he BEATEN recently?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which powerful characters has he BEATEN recently?


Starbrand took on Thor,hulk and Hyperion at the same. and above for other mentioned feats.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Starbrand took on Thor,hulk and Hyperion at the same. and above for other mentioned feats.

Did he BEAT Thor/Hulk/Hype at the same time?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did he BEAT Thor/Hulk/Hype at the same time?

no, but is it not a feat?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
no, but is it not a feat?

My question remains for carver, then

Btw, my final post is up in our BZ, so once you're done we can get the judges in.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Starbrand took on Thor,hulk and Hyperion at the same. and above for other mentioned feats.

Superman one shotted Starro and Despero.

He's also the only character to repeatedly reverse Emperor Jokers reality warps.

Originally posted by cdtm
Superman resisted 5d imp power.

Where is the voice of reason, Abhi, when you need him? Is there an h1-b signal? Basically the Bat Signal for Indians? Holy shit

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Holy shit


See, this is why I should never be sober.


This post could be the poster for a "keep cdtm drunk" kmc drive.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which powerful characters has he BEATEN recently?

Killed a Beyonder.

https://m.imgur.com/a/qByJI

Like taint, Carver bases his life around a dozen or so scans. Methinks this one is #8..

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Like taint, Carver bases his life around a dozen or so scans. Methinks this one is #8..

Lol... well I could've posted him stomping the Avengers and taking out a group of Builders while also defeating Aleph but I posted a recent scan for him...

https://m.imgur.com/a/8XCtf

Now my question goes back to Saint. Name a powerful character Rebirth Superman have defeated.

Originally posted by carver9
Killed a Beyonder.

https://m.imgur.com/a/qByJI

That's nothing....Thor and Hype were killing dozens

Rebirth is the same as pre 52. Mod ruling

So I see you have nothing, lol. Did he DEFEAT the Avengers?

Originally posted by carver9
Now my question goes back to Saint. Name a powerful character Rebirth Superman have defeated. 1). There's no such thing as "Rebirth Superman", as he's the same Superman since 1986.
2). Starbrand has at his absolute max, the ability to destroy a planet:
http://i.imgur.com/wWZRZYT.png
3). But functional full-power, along with the combined power of Hyperion, Blue Marvel, Spectrum and Jane Thor is only about 200 nukes:
https://imgur.com/a/VlK4chq
4). Superman has no-sold plantary level explosion mid-sentence:
https://imgur.com/a/q67TkBl
5). In that form, Beyonders were weak sauce, and were turned into trees, shattered en-masse etc.

"lolololol"

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's nothing....Thor and Hype were killing dozens

Rebirth is the same as pre 52. Mod ruling

So I see you have nothing, lol. Did he DEFEAT the Avengers?

Scans of Thor and Hype KILLING Beyonders.

So you have nothing for Rebirth Superman? I'm sure you can post at least ONE powerful opponent hes defeated since rebirth...hes been active for a while now.

In no way shape form or fashion does your imgur pic state that planetary is where he maxes out. It said he needs the power to destroy a planet to defend one. Basically inferring that that's his power steering minimum

destroying even one Ivory King is a feat past planetary. Carol can wreck a planet at base but can't beat a Ivory King

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
In no way shape form or fashion does your imgur pic state that planetary is where he maxes out. It said he needs the power to destroy a planet to defend one. Basically inferring that that's his power steering minimum

destroying even one Ivory King is a feat past planetary. Carol can wreck a planet at base but can't beat a Ivory King

Exactly and it doesnt even matter because using statements, Superman himself even admits he cant destroy a planet. The showing he posted with the planet exploding... its debatable if he was even on the planet when that happened. It's crazy that he quotes statements from the Avengers title when statements made within JLA books are far worse.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
In no way shape form or fashion does your imgur pic state that planetary is where he maxes out. His power is specifically designed to be planetary-level.

Here it is again:
https://imgur.com/a/xrFfJvm

Read some comics, kido.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Basically inferring that that's his power steering minimum Quite the contrary, we saw his functional full power as being a few dozen nukes, nowhere near that. Balls-to-the-wall he is planetary.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
destroying even one Ivory King is a feat past planetary. No, it is not.

Originally posted by carver9
Exactly and it doesnt even matter because using statements, Superman himself even admits he cant destroy a planet. The showing he posted with the planet exploding... its debatable if he was even on the planet when that happened. It's crazy that he quotes statements from the Avengers title when statements made within JLA books are far worse. My cowardly "i sit on the sidelines and hope somebody helps me" friend, statements? We have actual, raw numbers of Starbrand's full power, directly stated, compared to nukes. He is far below planetary when not exploding his power in totality, and then he is planet-busting at his utmost limit.

Okay, let's do this slowly. This is super early Starbrand, who obviously doesn't even know who he is. Or what he is. Since then he's had above planetary feats. Beyond that, you don't need to be any specific power level to beat Clark. You just have to be able to exploit a weakness. His psychic resistance is shit. Jean Grey could stop him. He's susceptible to draining or other energy manipulation. His magic resistance is no higher than anyone elses (it's technically not a "weakness" like people say.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Okay, let's do this slowly. I'm not slowing down, just so you can keep up.

Speaking of slow, you should start posting in your battlezone.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
This is super early Starbrand, who obviously doesn't even know who he is. Or what he is. This is not Starbrand talking:
https://imgur.com/a/ngBnOqh

"To properly defend a thing, it requires an amount of energy equaling what's needed to destroy a thing. Defending a planet requires the ability to destroy one"

His total energy is specifically equal to the power necessary to destroy the Earth.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Since then he's had above planetary feats. No, kid.

The feat you used? Against the Beyonder?

It is specifically stated to use his entire power capable of destroying a planet.

Kevin: "In killing me, the Beyonder doomed himself -- UNLEASHING the cosmic power of the Starbrand I never wanted this... The power to protect or destroy A WORLD.":
http://i.imgur.com/dxwuiLfm.jpg


Kevin: "If I blow, it's not a Beyonder that buys it... It's the ENTIRE PLANET EARTH! I never wanted this... The power to protect or destroy A WORLD.":
http://i.imgur.com/sRKt35Im.jpg


Kevin: "Last, reabsorb ALL THAT STARBRAND ENERGY... So that I don't blow up THE WORLD!":
http://i.imgur.com/Y612JEim.jpg http://i.imgur.com/U7BV84Om.jpg

As I said, read some comics, and stop wasting my time.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Beyond that, you don't need to be any specific power level to beat Clark. You just have to be able to exploit a weakness. His psychic resistance is shit. So you're trolling now?

You're boring me.

Shoosh.

Go in exile for a while, start expanding your knowledge, and then come back in a few years and say hello.

Planetary?

What if Starbrand had to destroy a planet 1000x the size of earth?

He is defending Earth, you absolute idiot.

So a Starbrand doesn't have the capability of destroying other planets? Does it have to be the size of his home planet?

Nah, I didn't forget, I'll post soon

Why do you think Statement means That's the limit to his power

Abstracts couldn't beat an Beyonder, but Starbrand beating one doesn't impress you in the slightest? show me a beyonder getting beat by anybody else in a fight they got rid of them by setting off there own molecule man bombs

If other planets can be destroyed by the total energy required to destroy the Earth, then he can destroy them.

Stop asking stupid questions, celey.

Don't make me regret 'clicking here'.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Nah, I didn't forget, I'll post soon

Why do you think Statement means That's the limit to his power

Abstracts couldn't beat an Beyonder, but Starbrand beating one doesn't impress you in the slightest? show me a beyonder getting beat by anybody else in a fight they got rid of them by setting off there own molecule man bombs

He is literally made to have the total energy to destroy Earth.

When he destroyed the Beyonder, he was literally stated to have done so with the totality of his planet busting power.

You're.

Boring.

Me.

Seriously. The scans are right there. I have a game to watch in a few moments, and you're wasting my time.

Phil... Take deep breaths. No one is here to attack u.

I can't take deep breaths, since you smell.

All things aside, I am legitimately bored of this thread. I wanted to have some fun with carver, and I ended up disappointed.

Oh well. Onto the next one. I'll have to Saint him until he responds.

Originally posted by Stoic
Lowballs in the air anyone have a bat?

That last scan.. I would call that a speed feat.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Where, in this entire post, does Kevin exert more energy than the one required to destroy the Earth, which is explicitly the energy he has?

Celey, why do you keep wasting my time with your incoherent ramblings?

Not sure what is so incoherent. It's pretty clear what I'm saying.

Where is it stated that he has the power to protect or destroy an earth sized planet? I thought he has the power to protect or destroy a world

So you do want to waste my time.

I suggest you spend the next hour, with all your brain power, on the last page. Or, to help you, this scan:
https://imgur.com/a/ngBnOqh
Then, use the remaining neurons, and ask yourself: "Which planet does Starbrand defend?"
https://imgur.com/a/FeRqNbw

1+1. Quick math!

I literally only took you off ignore for 30 minutes. Back you go. Has to be a new record.

Have a nice forum life, celey.

Lol..

Phil.. I just posted a Kree Starbrand overpowering a sentient sun.... Screams "only planetary" to u?

Same Starbrand was destroying worlds that she deemed a possible threat to her planet prior to meeting Kevin.



Seriously though. I haven't seen anyone act like a little beetch the way u do. i mean... is it that time of the month again?

I don't know the first bloody thing about the Starbrand, but this thread is awful either way. Please try to have at least a little ****ing civility.

Originally posted by carver9
Scans of Thor and Hype KILLING Beyonders.

So you have nothing for Rebirth Superman? I'm sure you can post at least ONE powerful opponent hes defeated since rebirth...hes been active for a while now.

Rebirth=pre 52. Mod ruling.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Planetary?

What if Starbrand had to destroy a planet 1000x the size of earth?

Why stop there?

Why not infinity times the size of Earth?

https://media3.giphy.com/media/U2BASTIsaw8WQ/giphy.gif

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why stop there?

Why not infinity times the size of Earth?
Infinite powaaa is kinda stooopid. Hey, u never know.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Infinite powaaa is kinda stooopid. Hey, u never know.

But that's the reasoning you have.

That Kevin's power scales directly in proportion to the size of the planet he is defending. Like a planetary Jack Hawksmoor.

He's 'only' meant to protect Earth. So he is 'only' Earth-level in scale.

It's like having an engine, designed to power a car.

You then come in and say, yeah, but what if that car was the size of an aircraft carrier?? Nobody said how large this car was!!!

None of this matter since Superman himself said he can not even destroy a World...

Originally posted by carver9
I think this is worst tbh. Superman telling us that out of everyone in the Universe, there is only one being that can destroy a world.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3918076-fe+7+-+darkseid.png

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Rebirth=pre 52. Mod ruling.

You have nothing. This is kinda like the Thor thing. He gets bashed consistently due to his combat showings whereas that weight isn't distributed towards other characters. This is Rebirth Superman, not Superman. Post those fts please.

Originally posted by carver9
This is Rebirth Superman, not Superman. Post those fts please.

how can you be so dumb carver....

Originally posted by MrMind
how can you be so dumb carver....

Hey, Rebirth Superman I thought was asked here but the title says Superman. If it said "Rebirth" Superman, people usually just want to see fts primarily during and after rebirth took place.

Originally posted by carver9
Hey, Rebirth Superman I thought was asked here but the title says Superman. If it said "Rebirth" Superman, people usually just want to see fts primarily during and after rebirth took place.

Lol.

Can you not read?

Even OP pic isn't Rebirth lol.

You're a funny guy, Carter. What's the use of all your phone tech when the human hardware is sub par?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But that's the reasoning you have.

That Kevin's power scales directly in proportion to the size of the planet he is defending. Like a planetary Jack Hawksmoor.

He's 'only' meant to protect Earth. So he is 'only' Earth-level in scale.
Not what I'm saying

My point is it is faulty to pigeonhole his max power at just "planetary" or in your case "earth planetary" based on what he's done and who he has gone up against.
I've already posted some scans on why I lean towards this idea.

But delving more into it, let's take a favorite villain of yours for example. Graviton was bloodlusted and a proxy for an abstract's power. He's on average what, close to or planetary in power? This time he's bloodlusted and empowered by an abstract. In fact he was powered up "exponentially".
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8jmyU-ZXVHg/Wb9EZMoUxhI/AAAAAAABrIk/wxcjzjwi4WQ8spz7x2Vm_peZrLeUfaTrACLcBGAs/s1600/048_0010.jpg

What's worse is he was bloodlusted and joined by two others who were powered up "exponentially" by two other abstracts. He had already beaten all 3 earlier and was actually going rounds with them in a 2nd encounter.


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's like having an engine, designed to power a car.

You then come in and say, yeah, but what if that car was the size of an aircraft carrier?? Nobody said how large this car was!!!
Read above.

Also...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I disagree. Yes I believe he has the power to destroy a planet, but I just don't think it's fair to consign his powers to just that. It's obvious It's not as simple as just planet destroying considering three abstracts were not able to easily dispose of him. There's a more complex, more esoteric quality to them besides just busting a planet. You also disregarded my other points. What if the planet is ten times the size of Jupiter? Are u just relegating him to an earth sized planet?
What if the threat is coming from powers beyond just planetary? Doesn't it also say he has the "power to protect a planet"? Do we just take all those similar statements about power to protect and assume that he can protect earth from all powers beyond planetary that is threatening earth?

Anyways I think based on feats it is not fair to simply say that the upper limits of his power is easily relegated to planetary.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not what I'm saying

My point is it is faulty to pigeonhole his max power at just "planetary" or in your case "earth planetary" based on what he's done and who he has gone up against.
I've already posted some scans on why I lean towards this idea.

But delving more into it, let's take a favorite villain of yours for example. Graviton was bloodlusted and a proxy for an abstract's power. He's on average what, close to or planetary in power? This time he's bloodlusted and empowered by an abstract. In fact he was powered up "exponentially".
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8jmyU-ZXVHg/Wb9EZMoUxhI/AAAAAAABrIk/wxcjzjwi4WQ8spz7x2Vm_peZrLeUfaTrACLcBGAs/s1600/048_0010.jpg

What's worse is he was bloodlusted and joined by two others who were powered up "exponentially" by two other abstracts. He had already beaten all 3 earlier and was actually going rounds with them in a 2nd encounter.



Read above.

Also...

But we have plenty of comic examples showing that powerups are not necessarily the sum of their parts.

Colossaunaut is an example. Sodom Yat with GL ring and Ion entity is another. Beating those two guys because 'logically', a Daxamite with the most powerful weapon in the universe (which amps a human to HH levels), PLUS the embodiment of will, should make such a character trans/abstract, means that......

I mean, I get what you're saying. But that really assumes comic writers sit down and say OK, Graviton has these high feats back in the 90s. So let's scale upwards....

With power levels like that, Kevin Starbrand would have atomised Thor, lol. After all, a non-amped Graviton effortlessly pinned Thor not once:
http://i.imgur.com/jYLQDQO.jpg

but twice:
http://i.imgur.com/FNVmx7A.jpg

And Kevin managed to defeat a Graviton who was amped 'exponentially'. What's worse is he was bloodlusted and joined by two others who were powered up "exponentially" by two other abstracts. He had already beaten all 3 earlier and was actually going rounds with them in a 2nd encounter.

So you can see the dangers of scaling, right?

Kevin >>>Amped Graviton >>>>>>>>Graviton > Thor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Kevin >>>Amped Graviton >>>>>>>>Graviton > Thor. I'm not seeing the issue

Though I agree with Darksaint:

Powerups are powerdowns.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But we have plenty of comic examples showing that powerups are not necessarily the sum of their parts.

Colossaunaut is an example. Sodom Yat with GL ring and Ion entity is another.
DS, it's not the same thing. In the Starbrand instance, they weren't just 'powered up' they were under the complete control of the abstracts. They stayed that way until the link between them and the abstracts was severed and they had no idea what was going on.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Carol can wreck a planet at base
Carol Danvers? When did this happen?

News to me. Carol couldn't even beat down Hulk in that stupid Infinity skirmish between Reed and Cap (The one where the imbecil writer has the academic beat the soldier in battle tactics. Because comic book writers are all nerds who were "bullied" in school, and use their writing to live out their fantasies of sticking it to the jocks.)

Originally posted by zopzop
DS, it's not the same thing. In the Starbrand instance, they weren't just 'powered up' they were under the complete control of the abstracts. They stayed that way until the link between them and the abstracts was severed and they had no idea what was going on. Zop! Finally, somebody worthwhile.

Where did Starbrand, in his fight against them, display greater than his defined power - in those same series? And by the same series, I mean literally the same issue where he's fighting them, where the totality of his power is specified:
https://imgur.com/a/1xx0ux1

Those in the background? Those are the posessed villains, as you may know. It's stated twice, within consecutive pages, that he is Earth-busting level.

It is stated again, just in case people don't read, after the villains are depowered, that his power is Earth-busting:
https://imgur.com/a/5oUuloI

That's three times him being stated to be Earth-busting power, in the same fight you're arguing he is far more than that. I hope this is clear, so I'll repeat it again: in the same fight, he is stated, 3 times, that his powers is Earth busting - which is literally the core concept of the character, reiterated multiple times.

So, I'm asking, because I have the issues right in front of me, and he doesn't exceed that. Where are the villains exerting more power than it takes to bust the Earth and where does Starbrand overpower that power?

Do you have any proof, for any of this, or just because they are used as marionettes by cosmic beings, it means they are automatically an imaginary-level where it's convenient, despite the lack of feats - and even moreso - even if they are - what exactly would put Starbrand - who is, and I can't stress this enough, specifically stated to be Earth-power three times in the same fight - above that aforementioned power?

Please pin-point me at the exact page he shows energy levels above Earth-busting.

Lol... none of those scans say EARTH busting. It say WORLD busting... that could be a planet 3 times to a 1000 times bigger than Earth. It's an open statement.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... none of those scans say EARTH busting. It say WORLD busting... that could be a planet 3 times to a 1000 times bigger than Earth. It's an open statement. He has the equivalent energy to destroy the Earth.

Here, choco bambo:
https://imgur.com/a/ngBnOqh
https://imgur.com/a/FeRqNbw

Tell me if you need help reading :*

Lol.

https://i.postimg.cc/RhvphGP8/NqKVIXD.jpg

'The 5.0 L "Coyote" V8 is a car engine, meant to power a Mustang'

'Nobody said it was limited to a Mustang!!!!! It's a CAR engine - that's an open-ended statement. What if by 'car', you meant a machine that was 1000x the size of a Mustang? 2000x?

Such a mystery!!'

https://i.imgur.com/El3nO5B.png

What did kindergarden level comic books mean by this?

I don't really care about scope; dude hits hard as **** in an apparently limited area.

That being said, he's (Kevin) generally crap - at this level - unless you use apparently only his highest 2 showings. Dude got ass raped by Mexi-Ghost Rider not too long ago. I'm sure no one wants to balance out his shit showings...

If I was to create this character, I'd have made him a mexican cocaine dealer who brands his minions and is a Batman villain.

"Alfred, why do all these cokeheads have stars imprinted on their anuses?"

I don't understand the argument.

The space heater in my garage can heat up to 800sq/ft. It says so right on the box. I don't assume that's just a low-end figure, and that it can really heat an entire city when used at full capacity.

My heater is garbage and I need to buy a new one. I can leave it on all day and it only drops the temp about 5 degrees at best.

I can't touch my bar with my bare hands when it's super cold out or I get frostburn... one day I will fully insulate it when I get sick of it being so chilly.

@Phil...

The scans you posted still say "world". Earth isn't the only World. It's an open ended statement. Nothing states the only planetary body he can destroy is Earth.

Him protecting Eatth doesnt mean that his only limitation is earth either. How and why are you even making this comparison limited to one specific. Superman himself said that he protects Metropolis. I feel confident you would not limit his power level to city busting. Nothing has been shown proving he cant destroy something of this size...

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1804/JupiterOpal_HubbleMasztalerz_1880.jpg

I was going to mock your post when I started reading it by saying something about Jupiter. Then I clicked your clicky link...

Great minds think alike.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't understand the argument.

The space heater in my garage can heat up to 800sq/ft. It says so right on the box. I don't assume that's just a low-end figure, and that it can really heat an entire city when used at full capacity.

Example: Thanos has the power to destroy a World.

Tell me galan, does this automatically mean he can destroy only earth level planets?

If someone say Galactus or whomever is a world eater, I dont think about just Earth.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I was going to mock your post when I started reading it by saying something about Jupiter. Then I clicked your clicky link...

Great minds think alike.

You are my siamese twin.

Was Thanos designed to destroy Earth?

Was Galactus?

It's written clear as day he was designed to protect Earth, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol.

https://i.postimg.cc/RhvphGP8/NqKVIXD.jpg

'The 5.0 L "Coyote" V8 is a car engine, meant to power a Mustang'

'Nobody said it was limited to a Mustang!!!!! It's a CAR engine - that's an open-ended statement. What if by 'car', you meant a machine that was 1000x the size of a Mustang? 2000x?

Such a mystery!!'

Originally posted by carver9
@Phil...

The scans you posted still say "world". Earth isn't the only World. It's an open ended statement. Nothing states the only planetary body he can destroy is Earth.

Him protecting Eatth doesnt mean that his only limitation is earth either. How and why are you even making this comparison limited to one specific. Superman himself said that he protects Metropolis. I feel confident you would not limit his power level to city busting. Nothing has been shown proving he cant destroy something of this size... The Starbrand is, explicitly, created to protect Earth. It's not a matter of him choosing to protect Earth - he could choose to protect the moon, or Mars, if he wants, but the power itself was designed for Earth, and it's capabilities are related to it.

Do you understand?

Let's try this again:

https://i.imgur.com/El3nO5B.png

Do you need me to break down each individual sentence?

Originally posted by carver9
You are my siamese twin. Connected at the foreskin

Originally posted by carver9
Example: Thanos has the power to destroy a World.

Tell me galan, does this automatically mean he can destroy only earth level planets?

If someone say Galactus or whomever is a world eater, I dont think about just Earth. Even if we throw the entire 9 book series of the Carver rulebook out, you can't piggyback off two vastly more capable characters and try and sandwich Starkev in there like he fits. Galactus can destroy more than a world because he has. Thanos could be limited to city busting capabilities for all it matters in the face of his raw power feats. CarvbranD has neither to go against his limited scope.

Thanos and Galactus aren't limited to Earth levels because they've done better... consistently.

Originally posted by zopzop
I get what you're saying Philo. I mean it specifically states the SB is meant as a planetary defense system. But you got to take into account this 'planetary' defense system took on a living STAR and 3 universal abstracts that were out for his blood. Also worth noting that Earth is a special planet that for all intents and purposes serves as Eternity's heart. You'd think it's defense system would be something special too.
https://i.postimg.cc/xcMdfj5p/RCO016.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/6TD3x4rG/image.jpg
Recapping Earth is Eternity's heart, the universe won't end until it's destroyed, it can't be destroyed as long as the Starbrand is there protecting it. Three abstracts that represent universal creation, destruction, and rebirth wanted Starbrand dead. They were having a hard time doing it. IMHO that means he's packing a lot more than just planet busting power.




I'm laughing because that actually makes sense. This really is the worst of days.

Originally posted by zopzop
I get what you're saying Philo. I mean it specifically states the SB is meant as a planetary defense system. But you got to take into account this 'planetary' defense system took on a living STAR and 3 universal abstracts that were out for his blood. Also worth noting that Earth is a special planet that for all intents and purposes serves as Eternity's heart. You'd think it's defense system would be something special too.
https://i.postimg.cc/xcMdfj5p/RCO016.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/6TD3x4rG/image.jpg
Recapping Earth is Eternity's heart, the universe won't end until it's destroyed, it can't be destroyed as long as the Starbrand is there protecting it. Three abstracts that represent universal creation, destruction, and rebirth wanted Starbrand dead. They were having a hard time doing it. IMHO that means he's packing a lot more than just planet busting power.

Great post.

If only those universals had something comparable to the Penance Stare in their arsenal...

Originally posted by zopzop
I get what you're saying Philo. I mean it specifically states the SB is meant as a planetary defense system. But you got to take into account this 'planetary' defense system took on a living STAR and 3 universal abstracts that were out for his blood. Also worth noting that Earth is a special planet that for all intents and purposes serves as Eternity's heart. You'd think it's defense system would be something special too.
https://i.postimg.cc/xcMdfj5p/RCO016.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/6TD3x4rG/image.jpg
Recapping Earth is Eternity's heart, the universe won't end until it's destroyed, it can't be destroyed as long as the Starbrand is there protecting it. Three abstracts that represent universal creation, destruction, and rebirth wanted Starbrand dead. They were having a hard time doing it. IMHO that means he's packing a lot more than just planet busting power. He didn't take '3 universal absttracts out for blood', they used the 'zombified' villains as amped puppets, he got just about killed, there was no actual page of him exerting 'above planetary busting' power, and there's no actual evidence that the villains themselves were above planet-busting. That's why I'm asking what you're referring to, specifically - as in page showing them busting stars, Starbrand overpowering them in a 'kamehameha' -- anything really. Just because they were 'amped by Abstracts' doesn't mean a whole lot - that's like saying Firestorm is powered by a Universe. It's all flashy words, to cover for the lack of actual concrete power feats. Kolobus was the Ghost of a Dead Star that literally wanted to 'possess' a structure, btw https://imgur.com/a/jSsLU76] so, again, it's not like 'the full power of a star', anymore than it was the 'power of abstracts'.

Yes, he is important, he is seen as a cosmic being etc. But his raw power in itself is, quite categorically, by definition , planet-busting. It's kind of like Living Tribunal talking nice to the the lower abstracts, when he could wipe his ass with them.

Originally posted by carver9
Now my question goes back to Saint. Name a powerful character Rebirth Superman have defeated.

A weakened Superman new to his powers beat a 5D Imp while being attacked from different point in time.

Originally posted by zopzop
I get what you're saying Philo. I mean it specifically states the SB is meant as a planetary defense system. But you got to take into account this 'planetary' defense system took on a living STAR and 3 universal abstracts that were out for his blood. Also worth noting that Earth is a special planet that for all intents and purposes serves as Eternity's heart. You'd think it's defense system would be something special too.
https://i.postimg.cc/xcMdfj5p/RCO016.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/6TD3x4rG/image.jpg
Recapping Earth is Eternity's heart, the universe won't end until it's destroyed, it can't be destroyed as long as the Starbrand is there protecting it. Three abstracts that represent universal creation, destruction, and rebirth wanted Starbrand dead. They were having a hard time doing it. IMHO that means he's packing a lot more than just planet busting power.

I feel like your post is what the writers intended; they just didn't give us the feats to back up.

Kind of like when narration tells us a character is a top tier fighter, but never shows them fight someone in h2h.

Originally posted by zopzop
For some reason I can't quote you so I have to rely on quickquotes. Philo, it specifically stated that these three abstracts wanted the Earth destroyed so they could restart the universe. Each one of them represented an aspect of Eternity : universal creation, destruction, rebirth. They COULD NOT KILL HIM and they were trying their best.

We've seen at least one of these abstracts before, Entropy, he's a legit universal level abstract (see the Genis-Vel series) and he was there trying his best to kill the SB. He wasn't fighting the abstracts, he was fighting villains amped by those abstracts. The same way when Hulk fights Juggernaut, he's not fighting Cyttorak.

Only they were literally featless with the amp.

And they literally almost killed him. What the--?

Again, what scene is the one where Starbrand shows above planet busting power? Is taking a beating a sign of how much he can dish out, too?

Captain Marvel has taken beatings from the Spectre standing. Is he now abstract level, too? And Spectre has feats....unlike amped...uh...Nitro.

Here's Superman no-selling a Living Universe and then hurting him, since we're at the part where we throw big words around:

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t/40224730_consciousuniverse.jpg

Originally posted by -Pr-
I feel like your post is what the writers intended; they just didn't give us the feats to back up.

Kind of like when narration tells us a character is a top tier fighter, but never shows them fight someone in h2h. infinite punch dimension

In the scan Phil posted, he also say he was testing Superman. Does not matter anyways because Starbrand is obviously above planetary level. I'll reply to the above post soon, watching the game.

testing(and i find this more like an excuses to escape,because when nebula man saying his words,he has paused frequently,and is has been superman knock down then he said these words),but that doesn't change the fact that superman withstanding his attack casually,and even beating nebula-man(and BTW,this living universe is actually JLA acquired from wonderworld in JLA issues,and this living universe masters been crashed by maggedon,who superman one-shotting him,absorb maggedon energy source and deactive maggedon)

it does pretty clearly state across multiple books that it is now defined as a planetary system intended to protect a people as they approach some ill-defined ascendency or something (as opposed to the original being a universal level threat). those 'people' are clearly humans, which would add further proof that this new star brand was intended to protect earth itself. the open-ended part that i see is that the limit of its power isn't clearly defined. it can destroy the earth, sure, but is that the limit? i dunno. we really can't know imo. what if a threat came to earth that had more power than it took to shatter the earth? would that threat exceed the star brand's scope or could it further elevate itself to match and defend the planet? again, i dunno. based on the level of the original brand, i personally wouldn't rule it out though. /shrug

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
testing(and i find this more like an excuses to escape,because when nebula man saying his words,he has paused frequently,and is has been superman knock down then he said these words),but that doesn't change the fact that superman withstanding his attack casually,and even beating nebula-man(and BTW,this living universe is actually JLA acquired from wonderworld in JLA issues,and this living universe masters been crashed by maggedon,who superman one-shotting him,absorb maggedon energy source and deactive maggedon)

So you're saying it is an excuse? Gotcha. Also, what fts does Nebula have?

Superman, easily.

a bit off topic here but does anybody remember that superman villian that can convert his psionic energy into anything he imagines? i forget his name.

Originally posted by carver9
So you're saying it is an excuse? Gotcha. Also, what fts does Nebula have? in my opinion,should be an excuse(like i said those reasons).nebula-man appearaces deficient,only know is that he is a living universe(because he is the same thing appearance in JLA issues,so this should be certain).

Originally posted by ghostman
a bit off topic here but does anybody remember that superman villian that can convert his psionic energy into anything he imagines? i forget his name. saviour

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
saviour

yes!!! thanks brother

Originally posted by carver9
So you're saying it is an excuse? Gotcha. Also, what fts does Nebula have?

you don't even try to hide your double standard, what fts do the trio of villains starbrand was fighting have?

Originally posted by MrMind
you don't even try to hide your double standard, what fts do the trio of villains starbrand was fighting have?

Graviton has held every single hero on Earth in place and this same Graviton had a freaking Abstract inside of his body powering him up. There were 2 more beings amped by abstract power.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
in my opinion,should be an excuse(like i said those reasons).nebula-man appearaces deficient,only know is that he is a living universe(because he is the same thing appearance in JLA issues,so this should be certain).

Hhhhmmmm...

Originally posted by carver9
None of this matter since Superman himself said he can not even destroy a World...

Has this point been addressed or has it been run from?

Originally posted by carver9
Graviton has held every single hero on Earth in place and this same Graviton had a freaking Abstract inside of his body powering him up. There were 2 more beings amped by abstract power.

Which ones?

The Starbrand has the power to protect or destroy a world. Where is it defined that their max power output is based on the size of their home planet? The repeated statement itself is a bit open. What if the threat was beyond planetary? Doesn't it also have the power to "protect" the world?

Other things of note. I've already mentioned this, but visuals help. The Kree Starbrand literally overpowered a sentient Sun.
"The Kree Starbrand is too powerful! Her fire supersedes Kolobus!"
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2621ts5.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/ao9vl1.jpg
That sun's true form? It dwarfs the earth.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/18yhkw.jpg

And what was stated about the Kree Starbrand and Earth Starbrand in regards to their power level?
"...evenly matched in power."
http://oi66.tinypic.com/314t4b8.jpg

So now we have both Starbrands either overpowering or getting the best over a sentient sun. Seems planetary?

And prior to this encounter, the Kree Starbrand had just destroyed the Skrull homeworld. She had the same calling card and everything... Power to protect and destroy a world. Was the Skrull homeworld larger or smaller than Kree Pama(Kree homeworld)? Beats me.....
http://oi67.tinypic.com/wivsid.jpg

The Kree homeworld however may have been a large planet seeing as it has a ring system and had multiple moons. Not definitive, but huge posiblity.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/ng381f.jpg

So many things to consider just to pigeonhole the Starbrands purely as having max power output in relation to the size of their home planets. Just doesn't jive with me.

It's also implied that the earth starbrand can destroy Kree-Pama and of course vice versa. I thought their max output is based only on the size of their respective planets?
http://oi64.tinypic.com/ao9vl1.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/j9n8r4.jpg

If one planet is larger then the other, then one of them does not have the power to destroy the other's planet. But then again both planets could be the same in size. That goes the same for the Skrull homeworld that was one-shotted. It must have been equal to or smaller than the Kree planet. These things are highly unlikely.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It's also implied that the earth starbrand can destroy Kree-Pama and of course vice versa. I thought their max output is based only on the size of their respective planets?
http://oi64.tinypic.com/ao9vl1.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/j9n8r4.jpg

If one planet is larger then the other, then one of them does not have the power to destroy the other's planet. But then again both planets could be the same in size. That goes the same for the Skrull homeworld that was one-shotted. It must have been equal to or smaller than the Kree planet. These things are highly unlikely.

It was also stated that the user of the Starbrand was limited only by their imagination.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
The Starbrand has the power to protect or destroy a world. Where is it defined that their max power output is based on the size of their home planet? The repeated statement itself is a bit open. What if the threat was beyond planetary? Doesn't it also have the power to "protect" the world?

Other things of note. I've already mentioned this, but visuals help. The Kree Starbrand literally overpowered a sentient Sun.
"The Kree Starbrand is too powerful! Her fire supersedes Kolobus!"
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2621ts5.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/ao9vl1.jpg
That sun's true form? It dwarfs the earth.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/18yhkw.jpg

And what was stated about the Kree Starbrand and Earth Starbrand in regards to their power level?
"...evenly matched in power."
http://oi66.tinypic.com/314t4b8.jpg

So now we have both Starbrands either overpowering or getting the best over a sentient sun. Seems planetary?

And prior to this encounter, the Kree Starbrand had just destroyed the Skrull homeworld. She had the same calling card and everything... Power to protect and destroy a world. Was the Skrull homeworld larger or smaller than Kree Pama(Kree homeworld)? Beats me.....
http://oi67.tinypic.com/wivsid.jpg

The Kree homeworld however may have been a large planet seeing as it has a ring system and had multiple moons. Not definitive, but huge posiblity.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/ng381f.jpg

So many things to consider just to pigeonhole the Starbrands purely as having max power output in relation to the size of their home planets. Just doesn't jive with me.

Good chance that the Kree home world was bigger than Earth, since the Kree are naturally several times stronger than a Earth human.

Originally posted by zopzop
For your Hulk/Juggernaut example to be relevant here, you'd have to have Cytorrak funneling power into Juggernaut AND taking full control of him. The trio of villains were literally the avatars of the abstracts : they were channeling their power, speaking, and acting through them.

And they didn't almost kill him. He actually took them out with one attack. But they were released and then all 4 of them got in a prolonged fight. The abstracts didn't gain the advantage till after the SB was distracted. That was a monstrous showing for the SB.

Regarding your Superman example, I have no problem with that. Even Masterson Thor brought Power Stone amped Thanos during the IG saga to his knees. But we all know how that fight ended. Why would 'taking control of him' be relevant, when we're talking about power, zop? They're different things and, furthermore, we saw what happened the first time Starbrand faced them while they were 'controlled' - they were completely nullified by being in Antarctica , they were restrained casually, and the 'controlled by abstracts !! Nitro' was school-busting level Both the villains, and Juggernaut, are avatars given power - they're conduits, not the power of Cyttorak/Abstracts themselves.

I asked you a question, too, Zop - where, exactly, did Starbrand exhibit above planetary destroying energy projection? Show me the page, the panel, anything. Show me where the avatars did, and show me where Kevin overpowered it.

It's simple: do you have it, or do you not?

We function on proof here. Not vague statements. "The Sun!" was a dead one, a ghost trying to possess a structure. The "abstract villains!" were simply mind-control zombie villains who were amped, and who have no feats to back your position.

I asked you another question, is Shazam Spectre-level, because he took attacks for him? By your own logic. You dodged this, too. And he did it much better than Starbrand, who was near-death, and was lucky the villains' connection to the abstracts was stopped. Do you want me to go on? Superman took attacks from Emperor Joker, who warped the Multiverse. Superman took attacks from Dominus, who was choking Eternity and was far above her . Does that mean that he can evaporate the Universe with heat vision? Shall I go on? Your logic doesn't hold up, not only because you don't differentiate durability and energy projection , but because that's not the way any of this works.

I feel like I'm playing poker with you, you have nothing in your hand, and you keep avoiding showing me the cards.

Originally posted by cdtm
News to me. Carol couldn't even beat down Hulk in that stupid Infinity skirmish between Reed and Cap (The one where the imbecil writer has the academic beat the soldier in battle tactics. Because comic book writers are all nerds who were "bullied" in school, and use their writing to live out their fantasies of sticking it to the jocks.)

Well said.

And that is a disgrace, disrespecting Cap like that.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Has this point been addressed or has it been run from?

Stop trolling with stupid arguments.

think about some of the characters we've seen with power to literally destroy a planet--terrax did it on panel, monica was about to destroy an alternate earth. do we say that starbrand is only equal to them? maybe he is, but my impression is he is a lot more powerful than they are.

Originally posted by cdtm



I'm laughing because that actually makes sense. This really is the worst of days.


Sorry Zop, for some reason I thought your post was Carvers.

Coming from you, it makes sense, that it makes sense.

Originally posted by leonidas
think about some of the characters we've seen with power to literally destroy a planet--terrax did it on panel, monica was about to destroy an alternate earth. do we say that starbrand is only equal to them? maybe he is, but my impression is he is a lot more powerful than they are. Yes, but power levels aren't universally translated into all comic book arcs, under different writers. Starbrand is, by definition, the total energy it takes to destroy a planet. Just because Terrax is the same in a completely different arc , it doesn't mean that Starbrand should be above that.

Let's take a theoretical example, like Nitro. If his power is defined a nuke level, and he blows up and hurts Thor, but in a different arc we saw Thor can tank being inside the sun, does that mean that Nitro is not nuke level, but supernova level? Replace this with another example, and the logic still wouldn't hold.

Originally posted by panthergod
Stop trolling with stupid arguments.

Superman officially being declared as unable to destroy a world is quite relevant.

Said more than once.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Superman officially being declared as unable to destroy a world is quite relevant. you

Your attempt at lying about the way this character is portrayed is not relevant, no.

Superman has destroyed planets. As a side effect. He withstand planet destroying attacks. Thus, your hilarious desperation is amusing as usual.

breaking feats down into arcs and writers is something i'm rarely comfortable doing. terrax either has the power to shatter/break a planet, or he doesn't. we don't qualify feats by writers or arcs. he's done it, so imo that is his power level. of course pis plays a role in some feats and common sense plays a role in others. maybe terrax used his earth control but it didn't look like it and that didn't appear to be the writers intent so i consider the feat viable. we also don't know what it means to destroy the planet, if we're nitpicking. disintegrate it? erase it completely? shatter it like terrax? they all take different-vastly different--levels of power. and what about the sentient sun? was it only sub-planetary in power? seems odd.

i'm not saying with any sort of definitiveness that starbrand can match power with a greater-than-planetary level threat. but by the same token, given its history in comics overall, i certainly wouldn't be surprised (nor would i throw out such a showing or label it pis) to see some other writer have it perform well above that were such a thing required to defend the earth. were the avatars starbrand faced powerful enough to destroy a planet? doesn't seem unreasonable to think so. the fact that he didn't appear to use greater-than-planetary-force to beat them may or may not be relevant. every time superman is ko'd was the force used to do so greater than the greatest force he's been shown to withstand?

a slippery slope. like i said, i'm not sure who wins, but i'm personally not comfortable attributing a definitive ceiling yet to starbrand.

Originally posted by leonidas
breaking feats down into arcs and writers is something i'm rarely comfortable doing. terrax either has the power to shatter/break a planet, or he doesn't. we don't qualify feats by writers or arcs. he's done it, so imo that is his power level. of course pis plays a role in some feats and common sense plays a role in others. maybe terrax used his earth control but it didn't look like it and that didn't appear to be the writers intent so i consider the feat viable. we also don't know what it means to destroy the planet, if we're nitpicking. disintegrate it? erase it completely? shatter it like terrax? they all take different-vastly different--levels of power. and what about the sentient sun? was it only sub-planetary in power? seems odd.

i'm not saying with any sort of definitiveness that starbrand can match power with a greater-than-planetary level threat. but by the same token, given its history in comics overall, i certainly wouldn't be surprised (nor would i throw out such a showing or label it pis) to see some other writer have it perform well above that were such a thing required to defend the earth. were the avatars starbrand faced powerful enough to destroy a planet? doesn't seem unreasonable to think so. the fact that he didn't appear to use greater-than-planetary-force to beat them may or may not be relevant. every time superman is ko'd was the force used to do so greater than the greatest force he's been shown to withstand?

a slippery slope. like i said, i'm not sure who wins, but i'm personally not comfortable attributing a definitive ceiling yet to starbrand. It is, in fact, his history in comics and literal definition that makes me say it's planetary. A being created with the exact energy to destroy a planet he is meant to protect, who is repeatedly shown and stated to release all of his power in a planet destroying blast - it does't take any more blatant than that, unless there's a guy named Hiroshima, and he explodes with 'nuclear power'.

We both know comics don't work the way you describe them here. Do you think that when Starbrand was written, did the writer think "Hm, what's the absolute highest feat, ever, of all these characters he's facing? He's that, +1!". No, he defined him as more powerful than them, and put him at planet-busting. What ruffles the feathers of everybody here is that if Starbrand is only planet-busting, then that means Thor/Hulk/etc., being so much comparatively weaker, and Kevin being inexperienced when he faced them, look like bugs.

But...again, that's not how comics work. Why do you think I usually go by relative comparisons, and not feats? I wanted to have fun with carver here and make him cry that Hulk was treated like a bug by a planet-buster, but the triggered suspects, as usual, started babbling. In one comic, a writer might think that the Thors and Hulks of the world would be KOd by a nuke, in another they might tank moons exploding. Now, leo, in this situation - what do you do, do you think that the nuke was actually a planet-busting nuke, or do you accept that characters get scaled up and down all the time?

In this case, if Terrax would meet Starbrand in a comic, what do you think would happen? He'd get scaled down as below a 'planet buster' and get his ass kicked.

As I said before, there's big words here "abstracts", "sun" that don't hold up under scrutiny, when you realize they're just amping villains and ghost sun who tries to possess stuff. But the fact that he is, by definition, in totality of his energy a planet buster? That this is repeated multiple times - in the same stories used where it's being tried to argue above? What about him going full power, and only being capable of having an output comparable to that of a nuke? Let me guess....all of these are, in actually, not usable, but the vague fights against wishful thinking powerlevels are.

Meh.

His power adapts
So to defend a planet he needs to equal such power
An will adapt to.future Adversaries higher than simply planet tier if need be
That's seen when he fights the children of eternity
Starbrand pulls more power if it deems it necessary

He matches the power needed to destroy a certian thing as said in that piece of dialogue
Mentioning the destruction output of a planet is due to Starbrand shepherding the earth an if it needs to kill other earths that endanger it
Literally in his mini series that's what the kree Starbrand does
An same as Kevin matches her power
That's the point of the Starbrand is to adapt to the something willing to endanger what he protects

Starbrand in comic history has always been a adaptive defense system
Specially Ereshkigal who endangered the Mutiverse If it went on an contended with the tribunal
Far from Simply planetary

The scan is self explanatory
Your defining a power with one piece out of multiple peaces of dialogue
Even then the care takers an the new universe
Clearly defined
The adaptive power if Starbrand
Hence both ereshkigal an Kevin Kevin Conner

Philo, you are reading into the scans wrong. Teleporting them to the Antarctic wasn't supposed to literally negate their powers, it was to reduce the collateral damage (back when Nightmask and Starbrand still thought they were fighting mortal villains).
https://i.postimg.cc/FdY2LZG7/RCO008-w.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1V62W3kS/RCO010.jpg

As to the rest of your post, Starbrand was shown to be above legit planet busting heralds like Thor/Hyperion/Hulk/etc.. Look how he annihilated the Builder's fleet with a wave of his hand. He beat down a living star that was larger than the Earth. He held his own against the avatars of three universal abstracts that wanted him dead so they could restart the universe.

I get that you are asking for SB showing >than planet busting power but you ain't gonna get it. Hell, Eternity's best feat is blowing up a planet on panel and Thanos said he unleashed all his fury. Do you really believe that's his max power output?

Originally posted by zopzop
Philo, you are reading into the scans wrong. Teleporting them to the Antarctic wasn't supposed to literally negate their powers, it was to reduce the collateral damage (back when Nightmask and Starbrand still thought they were fighting mortal villains).
https://i.postimg.cc/FdY2LZG7/RCO008-w.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1V62W3kS/RCO010.jpg Zop, what did you use as your argument? That they were possessed and powered - not just powered like Juggernaut. I pointed out that being 'possessed' means nothing, and use them being nullified to show just that.

If being 'possessed by abstracts' were so powerful, moving them in another location on Earth would make no difference if their power is above Earth busting level.

That Nitro "possessed by the abstracts" was just school busting level.
https://imgur.com/a/THC7hoX

They were restrained by being surrounded in amber :
https://imgur.com/a/CEsYcsH

That is, fairly simple. Understand your point, and why it is wrong?
Why being possessed means nothing?

Originally posted by zopzop
As to the rest of your post, Starbrand was shown to be above legit planet busting heralds like Thor/Hyperion/Hulk/etc.. Look how he annihilated the Builder's fleet with a wave of his hand. Characters don't get other character's feats, especially when the former characters aren't going all out.

Originally posted by zopzop
He beat down a living star that was larger than the Earth. It was the ghost of a dead star, who was trying to possess a structure. Do you understand how that is different from an actual star?


Originally posted by zopzop
He held his own against the avatars of three universal abstracts that wanted him dead so they could restart the universe. I keep asking you this, and you keep dodging.

Seriously Zop, focus.

Answer questions.

1). Where did the zombified amped villains display above planet-busting power
2). Where did Starbrand face and overpower that planet busting power.

Show me the scan.

You have no case otherwise. Big words don't replace arguments.

Do you understand this?

I mean, this is so ... easy, and I know you've read comics. There's plenty of people amped by abstract entities, that are not 'above planet-busting'. I'm just wondering, at what point, you realize that saying big words will get you nowhere.

Originally posted by zopzop
I get that you are asking for SB showing >than planet busting power but you ain't gonna get it. Finally

Originally posted by zopzop
Hell, Eternity's best feat is blowing up a planet on panel and Thanos said he unleashed all his fury. Do you really believe that's his max power output? Wh---at? No, because Eternity has better feats of power, and contains the Universe.

The same way Starbrand, is the defender of Earth, and contains the power to destroy it.

Originally posted by zopzop
Philo can you change/update your username? I can't quote you for some reason and I think it's cause of that special character in your username?

Raz comes here once per 3 years and even when he does, it doesn't mean he'll accept any username changes.

He did few months ago and everyone got shocked their requests from years ago got accepted

He promised to take care of the glitches (such as the one you're talking about), then disappeared. Typical

Originally posted by zopzop
Back to the thread :
The heroes ASSUMED they were fighting the base unamped human villains, that's why they thought it was a good idea to move the fight to a different location where innocent people wouldn't get harmed in the cross fire. Later they found out that they weren't fighting mere humans. Your argument, when Juggernaut was brought up as being amped by an abstract level being, is that on top of being amped, the villains were also possessed. I showed you that possession doesn't mean anything, that possessed Nitro was school busting-level, and the villains were affected by being placed at, and casually beat, in the Antarctic.

Do you understand why being amped by abstracts and possessed means nothing, and that unless you have proof of power, it's just empty statements?

Originally posted by zopzop
Also how many times does it have to be said, collateral damage ins't an indication of true power level. Molecule Man hit Beyonder with a blast that could have slagged several billion dimensions, Marsha's apartment wasn't even singed. According to you, MM and Beyonder weren't even herald level because that fight didn't' wreck the planet. Nitro's whole power is collateral damage. He was school level, yet possessed by 'abstract power!!'.

Blizzard was affected by the Antarctic cold, also while possessed by 'abstract power'!!!

Do you...understand your non-argument?

I keep asking you questions, zop.

But have you realized that you have zero argument here, in terms of feats? How long will you keep running on water?

Originally posted by zopzop
Thane trapped Thanos in amber, so that means Thanos isn't herald level?

Also, do you have examples of Eternity doing more than busting a planet on panel? Because according to Thanos, he hit him with all his might and the only thing that got wrecked was the planet Thanos was on. Thanos would know Eternity's limit seeing as how he had the HotU at the time. But common sense says Eternity is capable of more than that. You seem to have a hard time understanding the different situations, by comparing Eternity to Starbrand , yet at the same time have a hard time understanding the similarity in situations, between Juggernaut and the villains.

Can you keep at least a semblance of logical consistency, Zop?

You keep trying to deviate -- Eternity, the embodiment of the Universe being said to destroy the Earth with his power being a contested assertion, doesn't mean that Starbrand, by definition, being a planetary busting energy level is untrue. In order for you to prove it untrue, you'd have to contest it on its own merit, which you are blatantly, and even self-admittedly, unable to do so.

I will give you one more post to provide scans of:
1). Zombified amped villains display above planet-busting power
2). Starbrand face and overpower that planet busting power.

I'm not going to keep pointing out the abysmal line of thinking here, just for you to shout again and again "Abstract!! Sun!!", then having it shut down, then shouting again, etc.

So...go ahead. Show me. One last chance.

But...we both know there isn't any. We both read all of his apperances. And we both know...there's nothing there.

can't tell if trolling or serious. But I pretty much explained that scan with starbrand history of being adaptive and Nightmask clearly explained there power was beyond there normal output

Apart from that your scans irrelevant
Starbrand Sealed graviton in Cosmic amber
Even before
They actually caused any damage lol
That's why Nightmask is baffled that that move Kevin did could have killed them
Since Kevin doesn't usually do that

Starbrand killing a Beyonder is ridiculous. remember this is the same ivory King that defeated most of the abstracts including Eternity

too much to quote all of it. i'm not fully following your logic as regards relative showings and scaling. you say if terrax fought starbrand he'd get his a$$ kicked. of course. but you think that's because he wouldn't be portrayed at world cracking levels? for the sake of a forum fight, why does it matter how it would be portrayed in a comic? how many times have we seen someone say something like--"hal's shield withstood this attack, and this guy has broken worlds, ergo hal's shields can withstand world breaking powa!!11!" it literally happens every day in the forum. not sure why terrax v starbrand would be any different. hell, think of those 3 loser villains amped in the hotm hulk arc and how many times they were used to show hulk's level.

think about this for a second--imagine if superman fought and defeated 3 abstract empowered entities, one of whom at base was graviton, i honestly shudder at the conclusions that would be reached by some..... and imagine for a second if superman actually KILLED (not fought off or vaguely defeated in some pis-riddled scene) a beyonder! seriously, the forum would likely melt down. lol THAT melt down would be NOTHING compared to the LITERAL sh!tstorm that would ensue if someone then claimed it took only PLANET-BREAKING levels of power to kill a beyonder!

obviously none of that is aimed at you, one of the most rationale superfans out there (usually lol )

my opinion on this subject is clearly just that and i readily admit to speculating but like i said, i don't like to place hard ceilings, especially when i'm not even sure what this 'destruction' would look like. it would also seem strange to me to place him on saturn, with all the times he has said he can destroy a "world" as opposed to "earth", then see him fail miserably to destroy saturn. lol he'd be like--sorry guys, only had enough juice to destroy earth, specifically. sounds silly, and i'm not poking fun, seriously, it just doesn't sound right to me placing such a hard cap on such a massive concept.

you disagree, i know, and believe me i am totally cool with that. i feel like this wasn't my clearest post, maybe because i'm going more off feel and opinion than anything else. /shrug

I'll tldr, since I spent already too much time on the subject, lol.

I think Starbrand is, intrinsically by his very origin, very defined as Earth-energy destroying power, at his peak. Since he doesn't have much wiggle room in terms of scale, the other characters scale around him, if they really need to . You can even see HIM scale down, when he faced the nuke-barrier around the Earth, and he went "just one of the rest".

Starbrand would also murder Terrax on the forum, in terms of absolutely every ability, raw power and whatever else can be considered. As in, without even getting into scaling.

@ the beyonder stuff, we had something similar with Mangog recently. He roflstomped Asgard, then he got evaporated, alongside Mjolnir, by the sun. How many times have you seen me argue that Superman heat visions Mangog, Mjolnir and all of Asgard into ash? The Beyonders were turned into trees, destroyed by planetary-level explosion etc.

Starbrand being planetary doesn't really matter much to me, I wanted to anger carver, but then everybody took it seriously, one thing led to another...I legitimately think him getting plowed by zombie Graviton and literal whos amped by some cosmic beings was unimpressive as shit...as was the 'ghost' sun, and I'm not being facetious here. I do like some of the details of those fights though, but there's literally nothing there...that's why I kept asking for specific scenes. But JUST big words like 'abstract' and 'Sun' don't impress me....especially when I read those issues. And given the circles this discussion has been taking place , you can see that they're not as concrete as they sound. Green Lanterns actually DO have feats that don't require "Superman punched infinity, here he punches GL shields, ergo GL shields are infinity!", unlike Starbrand here.

So....yeah. Agree to disagree. With you too, zop. This discussion has taken more pages than issues the character has.

Superman 10/10

Kree-Pama(Kree homeworld) is the size of Earth and both are equal to or larger than Tarnax VII(Skrull planet).

Originally posted by leonidas
breaking feats down into arcs and writers is something i'm rarely comfortable doing. terrax either has the power to shatter/break a planet, or he doesn't. we don't qualify feats by writers or arcs. he's done it, so imo that is his power level. of course pis plays a role in some feats and common sense plays a role in others. maybe terrax used his earth control but it didn't look like it and that didn't appear to be the writers intent so i consider the feat viable. we also don't know what it means to destroy the planet, if we're nitpicking. disintegrate it? erase it completely? shatter it like terrax? they all take different-vastly different--levels of power. and what about the sentient sun? was it only sub-planetary in power? seems odd.

i'm not saying with any sort of definitiveness that starbrand can match power with a greater-than-planetary level threat. but by the same token, given its history in comics overall, i certainly wouldn't be surprised (nor would i throw out such a showing or label it pis) to see some other writer have it perform well above that were such a thing required to defend the earth. were the avatars starbrand faced powerful enough to destroy a planet? doesn't seem unreasonable to think so. the fact that he didn't appear to use greater-than-planetary-force to beat them may or may not be relevant. every time superman is ko'd was the force used to do so greater than the greatest force he's been shown to withstand?

a slippery slope. like i said, i'm not sure who wins, but i'm personally not comfortable attributing a definitive ceiling yet to starbrand.

Well written Leo. I'm clapping. The Starbrand is as powerful as the users imagination. The Sentient Star was obviously powerful enough to destroy the Earth, as it posed a threat to all life on the planet. Hyperion alone showed planetary level strength, and he was treated like a weakling. As was the Hulk and Thor. The he got into it with three extremely powerful beings that were being powered up by Abstracts, and it still isn't enough to stop the cherry picking.

Originally posted by leonidas
too much to quote all of it. i'm not fully following your logic as regards relative showings and scaling. you say if terrax fought starbrand he'd get his a$$ kicked. of course. but you think that's because he wouldn't be portrayed at world cracking levels? for the sake of a forum fight, why does it matter how it would be portrayed in a comic? how many times have we seen someone say something like--"hal's shield withstood this attack, and this guy has broken worlds, ergo hal's shields can withstand world breaking powa!!11!" it literally happens every day in the forum. not sure why terrax v starbrand would be any different. hell, think of those 3 loser villains amped in the hotm hulk arc and how many times they were used to show hulk's level.

think about this for a second--imagine if superman fought and defeated 3 abstract empowered entities, one of whom at base was graviton, i honestly shudder at the conclusions that would be reached by some..... and imagine for a second if superman actually KILLED (not fought off or vaguely defeated in some pis-riddled scene) a beyonder! seriously, the forum would likely melt down. lol THAT melt down would be NOTHING compared to the LITERAL sh!tstorm that would ensue if someone then claimed it took only PLANET-BREAKING levels of power to kill a beyonder!

obviously none of that is aimed at you, one of the most rationale superfans out there (usually lol )

my opinion on this subject is clearly just that and i readily admit to speculating but like i said, i don't like to place hard ceilings, especially when i'm not even sure what this 'destruction' would look like. it would also seem strange to me to place him on saturn, with all the times he has said he can destroy a "world" as opposed to "earth", then see him fail miserably to destroy saturn. lol he'd be like--sorry guys, only had enough juice to destroy earth, specifically. sounds silly, and i'm not poking fun, seriously, it just doesn't sound right to me placing such a hard cap on such a massive concept.

you disagree, i know, and believe me i am totally cool with that. i feel like this wasn't my clearest post, maybe because i'm going more off feel and opinion than anything else. /shrug

Be careful, or Sophia will put you on ignore for questioning her weak one sided logic that only make sense to those of us with extremely narrow minds.

Supermans faced down powers far greater then Starbrands.

Emperor.Joker would finish him in one move. If Joker could kick Darkseid, Highfather, Ganthet, Phantom Stranger, and Spectre out of the game, Starbrand, who is inferior to all.of them, wouldn't last a second.


Superman beats Starbrand with a whistle, just like he did True Darkseid.

Originally posted by panthergod
you

Your attempt at lying about the way this character is portrayed is not relevant, no.

Superman has destroyed planets. As a side effect. He withstand planet destroying attacks. Thus, your hilarious desperation is amusing as usual.

And Starbrand has exceeded planet destroying level by a wide margin. Do you even know what is going on in this thread and the basis behind the points being made? Read the thread before commenting.

Originally posted by cdtm
Supermans faced down powers far greater then Starbrands.

Emperor.Joker would finish him in one move. If Joker could kick Darkseid, Highfather, Ganthet, Phantom Stranger, and Spectre out of the game, Starbrand, who is inferior to all.of them, wouldn't last a second.


Superman beats Starbrand with a whistle, just like he did True Darkseid.

Superman doesn't defeat EJ in head to head combat. Why do folks so dishonestly treat it as such? EJ could have defeated Superman with a whistle

Originally posted by TheHulkster
And Starbrand has exceeded planet destroying level by a wide margin. Do you even know what is going on in this thread and the basis behind the points being made? Read the thread before commenting.

Do YOU know what's going on?

Supermans exceeded multiversal power before. The Source Wall energies are easily of multiversal potency, and Superman was swimming in it, without any shielding or protection.


Superman is underrated as a "herald", when the truth is he can scale to any level imaginable.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Superman doesn't defeat EJ in head to head combat. Why do folks so dishonestly treat it as such? EJ could have defeated Superman with a whistle

No, he could not. Because he did not.


Superman is not Jokers "nemesis". Batman is. Why would Joker not do as he did to Spectre, or Darkseid?

Because he could not. Superman resisted his reality warps, and fought back. Just like Superman stored raw bleed in his mouth, something the Monitors swore was impossible. But as the captions said, "Superman can."

That's Grant Morrison's Superman. Dude has no limits

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Kree-Pama(Kree homeworld) is the size of Earth and both are equal to or larger than Tarnax VII(Skrull planet).
That would be like Hal destroying Warworld and creating a supernova, Superman casually oneshotted him while holding back.

Originally posted by cdtm
Do YOU know what's going on?

Supermans exceeded multiversal power before. The Source Wall energies are easily of multiversal potency, and Superman was swimming in it, without any shielding or protection.


Superman is underrated as a "herald", when the truth is he can scale to any level imaginable.

When did this happen? Scans please.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That would be like Hal destroying Warworld and creating a supernova, Superman casually oneshotted him while holding back.

Characters don't get other character's feats, especially when the former characters aren't going all out.

That's exactly his point .....

Originally posted by carver9
When did this happen? Scans please.

Where are your scans of BM?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Characters don't get other character's feats, especially when the former characters aren't going all out.

Superman outperforming multiple Galactus level beings is absolutely a feat.