Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Does anyone think that transformation would ever be viable again?

No. The transformation is absolute shit. Always has been.

Disappointing, but doesnt it work for Cumber?

Yeah, but as far as whose canon, Caulifla might always make use of it in the future.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Disappointing, but doesnt it work for Cumber? if he had access to other power-ups, I bet he'll toss ssj3 aside.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah, but as far as whose canon, Caulifla might always make use of it in the future. That seems to be the form she wants to unlock now for whatever reason.

So yeah.

Originally posted by vansonbee
if he had access to other power-ups, I bet he'll toss ssj3 aside.

Maybe the power drain doesnt exist in Heroes.

No. Which is a shame because it was absolutely brilliant in its design and execution. It was a form that gave an immense boost in power at the increased cost of stamina.

But instead we got the Super Saiyan God forms, which are much more powerful without any downside. In my opinion the Super Saiyan God form should've been what Ultra Instinct was, a unreliable transformation that would resurface when Goku fought enemies he'd normally had no chance against, and it should've only been used once or twice.

I had really hoped for SSJ3 to be mastered, like Goku did with normal super saiyan.

To get rid of the downside. But when God came along....not much point anymore.

Since he loses a lot of stamina in the ssj3 form, why not use it as a form to train in as?

It is my opinion that SSJ3 essentially represents the upper-echelon of power/transformation that the standard U7 Saiyans could achieve with 'normal' ki(I'm excluding Broly here, because he's a 'mutant' among Saiyans)... And even that is pushing it, because SSJ3 was only attained by Goku in the afterlife, where his undead body didn't have the same stamina limitations of his mortal body. In all likelihood, it is a form that should have never existed on the mortal plane, and it is entirely possible that Goku may not have ever been able to attain SSJ3 under regular circumstances/training with a mortal body. That would explain why a power-hungry warrior like Vegeta, who has ALWAYS trained rigorously, was still never able to reach SSJ3.

Anywho, SSJ3's primary drawback has always been its massive ki consumption. Even during the ToP, Goku still remarked on how quickly it drained his stamina when he briefly powered up to SSJ3 against Caulifla/Kale... And that was with him knowling of the stamina issues he'd previously had with SSG/SSB. So yeah, it's a very impractical form unless you can get the job done in a few seconds.


tl;dr
At this point I really don't think SSJ3 can ever be truly 'mastered/perfected' -- certainly not to the same extent as FPSSJ, at least, where it doesn't cause any extra drain on the user at all.

Good post, Galan.

Even in GT, SSJ3 form was not unreliable (for different reasons, but still).

We did find out that SSJ2 form could be significantly enhanced, though --- as Vegeta (BoS, "you slapped my Bulma" moment) and Future Trunks (when he sparred with SSJ3 Goku) showed us.

So maybe one day, they'll find a way to fix SSJ3's flaws or increase its power output. Won't surprise me one bit.

Originally posted by Galan007
It is my opinion that SSJ3 essentially represents the upper-echelon of power/transformation that the standard U7 Saiyans could achieve with 'normal' ki(I'm excluding Broly here, because he's a 'mutant' among Saiyans)... And even that is pushing it, because SSJ3 was only attained by Goku in the afterlife, where his undead body didn't have the same stamina limitations of his mortal body. In all likelihood, it is a form that should have never existed on the mortal plane, and it is entirely possible that Goku may not have ever been able to attain SSJ3 under regular circumstances/training with a mortal body. That would explain why a power-hungry warrior like Vegeta, who has ALWAYS trained rigorously, was still never able to reach SSJ3.

Anywho, SSJ3's primary drawback has always been its massive ki consumption. Even during the ToP, Goku still remarked on how quickly it drained his stamina when he briefly powered up to SSJ3 against Caulifla/Kale... And that was with him knowling of the stamina issues he'd previously had with SSG/SSB. So yeah, it's a very impractical form unless you can get the job done in a few seconds.


tl;dr
At this point I really don't think SSJ3 can ever be truly 'mastered/perfected' -- certainly not to the same extent as FPSSJ, at least, where it doesn't cause any extra drain on the user at all.

It doesnt make sense if Goku can master blue, which is said to draw much more stamina than red, but cant master SSJ3.

Also who could we compare SSJ3 Goku presently to in power?

Nothing makes sense in Super.

Nothing

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
It doesnt make sense if Goku can master blue, which is said to draw much more stamina than red, but cant master SSJ3. You're also comparing god ki to normal ki.

Perhaps it is easier to master SSB then it is to master SSJ3, due to the types of ki they use? After all, Goku mastered the stamina drain of SSG/SSB in a relatively short period of time, whereas he never came close to mastering the stamina drain of SSJ3 over the course of several yearS.

...Either that or he simply hasn't focused on trying to master SSJ3 ever since he gained the god forms. /shrug

Yeah, why try to master mortal ki when you have god ki?

Originally posted by Astner
No. Which is a shame because it was absolutely brilliant in its design and execution. It was a form that gave an immense boost in power at the increased cost of stamina.

But instead we got the Super Saiyan God forms, which are much more powerful without any downside. In my opinion the Super Saiyan God form should've been what Ultra Instinct was, a unreliable transformation that would resurface when Goku fought enemies he'd normally had no chance against, and it should've only been used once or twice. Yeah I completely agree with this.

I feel like Ss3 being sidelined had more than a little to do with the hair being more difficult to draw. Every drawback he probably just added to the form to avoid putting it on the page. That's one thing about Toriyama that always annoyed me. He picks and chooses when to care lol

I mean, would explain why Raditz remained underutilized despite being Goku's brother. That and Vegeta had simpler looking hair for Tori to repeatedly redraw far as Goku having a saiyan rival.

If someone's not doomed for having spots like Cell for reentry in Dragon Ball, then it's the hair.

I actually like that brothers are forgettable in the DB universe. That's better than the "every family member have to be epic and memorable" schtich many other fictions force down or throats.

I like that too as Vegeta after one of the longest cases of character development ever is shaping up to be more of an adopted brother to Goku. The animosity feels more like sibling rivalry now whereas before you really felt like vegeta could turn on Goku at any time.

Originally posted by Bentley
I actually like that brothers are forgettable in the DB universe. That's better than the "every family member have to be epic and memorable" schtich many other fictions force down or throats.

Brothers are forgettable in real life, too

Depends on how close one is with their family, which Goku isnt the role model for anyway. Terrible family man all around.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Terrible family man all around.

No shit...

https://tinyurl.com/y3kclyz6

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Brothers are forgettable in real life, too

I didn't want to say it like that... But yes.