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Trigon (at his peak in New Teen Titans) vs. Surtur (from Everything Burns)

Who wins?

hard to argue against peak Trigon, he was conquering dimensions

Trigon wins.

conquering dimensions is hard to quantify. in terms of personal power and feats, trigon would be hard pressed to match surtur who has destroyed a galaxy and battled classic odin evenly for prolonged periods of time. it could be argued that he may have been shown as more powerful than odin at points. what has trigon done to match? he has a lot of narration that is suggestive, but few quantifiable feats. surtur wins based on feats imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
conquering dimensions is hard to quantify. in terms of personal power and feats, trigon would be hard pressed to match surtur who has destroyed a galaxy and battled classic odin evenly for prolonged periods of time. it could be argued that he may have been shown as more powerful than odin at points. what has trigon done to match? he has a lot of narration that is suggestive, but few quantifiable feats. surtur wins based on feats imo. well,but trigon alread absorbed his own dimension(conquered dimension,which is why in new teen titans volume 2,trigon became bigger than volume 1,because he literally consuming all the worlds in that universe),and he will did that to dc universe(canon
universe)if not for raven aided by azarath's souls(another dimension) to stop trigon
https://i.imgur.com/ToV0Gsl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2lU1Cs5.jpg

Read Trigon's origin in the New52. He's far beyond Surtur.

we are talkin about pre52 trigon not new52 here Golgo

destroyed a galaxy is nothing, trigon has destroyed galaxies and UNIVERSE
https://imgur.com/hnMXwa6
https://imgur.com/W4xD52G
https://imgur.com/wwKIRvg
https://imgur.com/Xc6VrQM
https://imgur.com/ddQtNcG

violence of the universe boiled inside him, he consumed all the worlds in his universe
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/5187/893458-trigon_4.jpg

stole the soul of a Universe
http://i.imgur.com/PSXbsJz.jpg

statements are almost as good as feats when you are on that level, even if he's not capable of one shotting a universe, he is still powerful enough to take over and cause universal destruction. So he's on a bigger scale
He is def universal level to say the least, I'd say a notch above galaxy busting skyfather like surtur

like i said, he has lots of good exposition. he has almost no on-panel feats, and since narration and exposition mean almost nothing (nate grey is compared to dark phoenix, but i don't see him as being able to beat down galactus....) in a forum setting, surtur wins based on feats.

we also don't know much about his universe. a pocket dimension? full-sized universe equal to the prime universe? seems unlikely to me. i see him more along the lines of dormmamu or mephisto than i do as any universal level power. /shrug

Surtur was amped during Everything Burns... They had to use a plot device to beat him.

Originally posted by leonidas
he has almost no on-panel feats since narration and exposition mean almost nothing in a forum setting

That I don't really agree with

a lot of high end level characters have very few on panel showings, can't just say they automatically lose. Their standing on the cosmic hierarchy need to take into account



I'd assume when writer wrote universe they meant it to be at least bigger than a galaxy aka common sense.

also to be fair most galaxies that's been destroyed in comics, has no defined size either

Surtur never destroyed a full galaxy either.

and i remember raven origin story in new teen titans said raven when she trigon part power out of control,would destroy universe and more

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
and i remember raven origin story in new teen titans said raven when she trigon part power out of control,would destroy universe and more

I agree, but you have to be careful around here, because at times there is a very fine line that separates feats from hyperbole. I mean, I once read that if Cyttorak had not been imprisoned within the Crimson Cosmos, that he would have destroyed all of creation.

Originally posted by MrMind
That I don't really agree with

a lot of high end level characters have very few on panel showings, can't just say they automatically lose. Their standing on the cosmic hierarchy need to take into account



I'd assume when writer wrote universe they meant it to be at least bigger than a galaxy aka common sense.

also to be fair most galaxies that's been destroyed in comics, has no defined size either

the bigger problem comes from the word 'conquering'. meaning he conquered, not destroyed. likely with an army. who inhabited the universe? any real powers oppose him?

and

galaxies are galaxies. they don't need a specific size. pocket dimensions/pocket universes are much different than regular universe though. hell can be considered a universe sized dimension, but no one would equate it with the prime universe, like no one would equate mephisto with eternity. pocket universes are ruled by beings LIKE mephisto, dormammu, satanish, blaze, satanus, etc.... i see no reason to elevate trigon beyond the likes of those beings.

here is odin saying he has the power to overthrow a universe as well:

https://imgur.com/a/lWvdXqN

also stating surtur destroyed a galaxy. do we take odin's word that he could rule the universe? maybe, if the universe we're talking about is asgard. but do we really think he could overthrow the prime universe? i don't think so... narration=/=feats. never has and never will. it can SUPPORT feats, but the feats need to exist. trigon has next to zero feats, so the narration is effectively meaningless in a forum setting. /shrug

Originally posted by Stoic
I agree, but you have to be careful around here, because at times there is a very fine line that separates feats from hyperbole. I mean, I once read that if Cyttorak had not been imprisoned within the Crimson Cosmos, that he would have destroyed all of creation. i agree,but i think this depend on whom said those words,and later description,like if a regular person(jimmy,perry,cat,etc)said superman is the most powerful being on earth,then this won't be a solid prove,but if the atom(ray),batman,lex,metron those persons said that,then these words should be considering,and later,if superman performs is enough,then those words should be valid.

and raven was said that by azar(whom constantly against trigon dimension from dimension,and she's power is enough just a fraction power inhabitant in arella is enough to purify azarath souls corrupted by trigon which could devouring azarath dimension iirc),and trigon performs:literally killed entire universe,he was the universe evil itself,conquering his own dimension when he at young age,defeating all heroes on earth just by spreading his power(which is pre-crisis version,coie was after this story) etc

Originally posted by leonidas

and

galaxies are galaxies. they don't need a specific size. pocket dimensions/pocket universes are much different than regular universe though. hell can be considered a universe sized dimension, but no one would equate it with the prime universe, like no one would equate mephisto with eternity. pocket universes are ruled by beings LIKE mephisto, dormammu, satanish, blaze, satanus, etc.... i see no reason to elevate trigon beyond the likes of those beings.

here is odin saying he has the power to overthrow a universe as well:

https://imgur.com/a/lWvdXqN

also stating surtur destroyed a galaxy. do we take odin's word that he could rule the universe? maybe, if the universe we're talking about is asgard. but do we really think he could overthrow the prime universe? i don't think so... narration=/=feats. never has and never will. it can SUPPORT feats, but the feats need to exist. trigon has next to zero feats, so the narration is effectively meaningless in a forum setting. /shrug
dude,about your size problem,trigon need dc prime universe to feeding up his universe which the one he absorbed and killed universe.this was new teen titans volume 2 first story......and been adaptions in many other versions(like animation)i thought this should be a general knowledge..........

Surtur the poster?

Trigon dies after reading a few of his posts.

Originally posted by leonidas
the bigger problem comes from the word 'conquering'. meaning he conquered, not destroyed. likely with an army. who inhabited the universe? any real powers oppose him?

and

galaxies are galaxies. they don't need a specific size. pocket dimensions/pocket universes are much different than regular universe though. hell can be considered a universe sized dimension, but no one would equate it with the prime universe, like no one would equate mephisto with eternity. pocket universes are ruled by beings LIKE mephisto, dormammu, satanish, blaze, satanus, etc.... i see no reason to elevate trigon beyond the likes of those beings.


nobody said he only conquered

I guess you overlooked the scans
it said trigon:
ravaged galaxies
brought an entire universe to its knees
violence of the universe boiled inside him, he consumed all the worlds in his universe

it said universe...so not sure why you think its pocket dimension

and you must not have read your own scan--4th one--conquered a universe. 'brought a universe to his knees' is simply synonymous.

know who else conquered a universe--annihilus. he conquered the negative zone which has also been called a universe. annihilus=universal power? universe gets thrown around a lot. fact is we know next to nothing about what he conquered or how he did. i just showed you odin saying he could overthrow the universe but i don't see you calling him universal.

no feats for trigon makes this a dead discussion. narration=/=feats. it's pretty simple.

I don't see what Surtur can do to Trigon, tbh.

Originally posted by leonidas
and you must not have read your own scan--4th one--conquered a universe. 'brought a universe to his knees' is simply synonymous.

know who else conquered a universe--annihilus. he conquered the negative zone which has also been called a universe. annihilus=universal power? universe gets thrown around a lot. fact is we know next to nothing about what he conquered or how he did. i just showed you odin saying he could overthrow the universe but i don't see you calling him universal.

no feats for trigon makes this a dead discussion. narration=/=feats. it's pretty simple.

Leo, like I said just even if trigon has not one shot a universe, he is still more powerful than someone who can destroy a single galaxy
Pre52 Trigon
he torn the entire universe asunder
https://imgur.com/nDbC8jd
he was the primal energy that formed at the beginning of of universe, comparing it to Galactus or Eternity, sounds similar?
https://imgur.com/PVCjLWJ
same level threat as spectre
https://imgur.com/5jiphSH
one tenth of his power is able to destroy the universe!
https://imgur.com/5iVeDK4
even her daughter raven contained forces great enough to destroy the universe
https://imgur.com/subhpNz
power threaten the fabric of universe itself
https://imgur.com/39WBgWz
universe after universe fallen under his might
https://imgur.com/4Ki96rd

new52 Trigon,
Heart of Darkness that has the power of 100 GALAXIES got absorbed by trigon easily
https://imgur.com/JWUgzLa
https://imgur.com/AcrzLoO
https://imgur.com/xqIRaPQ


his son who was consier much weaker than him was able to play poker in omniversal nexus-where millions of universes colliding around and through them, which means they are able to withstand that amount of energies
https://imgur.com/R7YipBV
https://imgur.com/rcTvNQx

trigon was conquering thousands of worlds/universes
https://imgur.com/PMx3k2S
https://imgur.com/JQ81blb

Trigon's power is just insane.

raven's power(trigon part,of course)been pointed not just by raven herself,but also azar,and not only destroy universe,but can do more
https://i.imgur.com/oXRrtTO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/igyzAux.jpg

i'm afraid i'm done with this thread. if you want to take narration as fact, that's on you i guess. i guarantee that will NEVER win a debate--ever. i would happily bz this match with one or both of you. it wouldn't last very long. if you don't like it, let the mods know, but narration will never be meaningful in any match unless it's backed up by on panel feats and AGAIN, trigon has next to none. you really expect anyone to believe a tenth of trigon=universal destroyer? based on what?? lol

i actually like trigon a lot, and i find it really unfortunate that he has never really had his spotlight moments. but i can't help that. anyway, feel free to keep posting him saying how powerful he is, or others saying how powerful he is. until he actually SHOWS something of note, he loses this match.

well,i think perspective a character how powerful should to understanding and comprehension story.because basically,this is comics,not a gallery.and we're debating comics.
and actually,based on your standard "feat".then a bunch of comics so-called martial artist actually never showed they suppose art style,like batman,he virtually mastered all martial arts on earth,but how much martial styles you saw he used in comics?and this mean batman not him supposed description be?certainly not
of course,you could uses your standard to judge comics feats,but i couldn't agree we should absolutely has same perspective or standard feats as yours.

Trigon had a kid - Raven
I think Surtur was a bit of an Incel

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Trigon had a kid - Raven
I think Surtur was a bit of an Incel



that's why he's always trying to invade asgard

Jealous of Odin getting all them poontangs

Originally posted by MrMind


that's why he's always trying to invade asgard

Jealous of Odin getting all them poontangs

Surtur had thousands of children iirc. He also tortured them.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Surtur had thousands of children iirc. He also tortured them. Yeah, but all Surts kids are flaming like their old man.

Trigon decimates him.