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If you want to watch a Christian doing some desperate mental gymnastics and squirming to hang on to the crux of Christianity here is a debate with Matt Dillahunty, who is logically spot-on as usual. It's a little uncomfortable to watch at times because he squirms so much, but I found it mostly enjoyable. And yes, the Christian does pathetically bring out the "victim card" at one point, so yeah, there's that bit of entertainment...

Oh, and the moderator's stupid little "Christianity is true" shirt is a nice piece of propaganda.

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So the question is: is it unreasonable to believe that a cosmic entity created the universe and then one day impregnated a human in order to give birth to itself, then had itself die, then had itself brought back only to be reunited with itself?

Originally posted by Surtur
So the question is: is it unreasonable to believe that a cosmic entity created the universe and then one day impregnated a human in order to give birth to itself, then had itself die, then had itself brought back only to be reunited with itself?

Yeah, I agree that's all ridiculous, but if you watch the discussion the guy wanted to focus on the agreed-upon "evidence" of history, not silly mythology like that (you'll see why I put it in quotes in a second). The "evidence" that even some atheist historians will acknowledge. And that's at least a smart strategy if you're going to be talking to someone like Dillahunty. But this supposed "evidence" is really just the "claims," not the evidence. And it's mundane stuff like the fact that ancient Romans crucified people and put them in tombs. And that obviously doesn't prove a resurrection. And any claims of a "resurrected Jesus" are often 2nd hand, 3rd hand, etc. There is no concrete evidence. Only the claims.

And the atheist historian that Mike (the guy in the video) mentions is Bart Ehrman, who is also quoted as stating that there are really no extra-Biblical sources in the first Century of Christianity to even support the existence of Jesus, but whatever. Mike still says he's "so overwhelmed by so much evidence." Typical Christian propaganda.

Hey Leech, why dont you make threads about how stupid Islam beliefs are?

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Hey Leech, why dont you make threads about how stupid Islam beliefs are?

I'm not nearly as familiar with Muslim nonsense. I grew up with fundamentalist Christianity, so it's what I know the best. But yeah, I'm sure Islam has more than its share of nonsense, like Muhammed flying to heaven on a white horse or some shit like that. It's hard to even make up such stupid shit... oh, wait, maybe it's not

Someone needs to, though, to counter all the Islamic propaganda posts we get here from eninn in particular.

You do it.

Obviously resurrection is not a reasonable belief. Even the notion of history as we know it now was in diapers back in the day so it's difficult to find a reliable source between the ton of propaganda the Roman Empire produced. Both of those things are reason enough not to have any record of any paranormal event that happened inside Roman dominion.

Nah, its not unreasonable.

But then, i believe all myths are true.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I'm not nearly as familiar with Muslim nonsense. I grew up with fundamentalist Christianity, so it's what I know the best. But yeah, I'm sure Islam has more than its share of nonsense, like Muhammed flying to heaven on a white horse or some shit like that. It's hard to even make up such stupid shit... oh, wait, maybe it's not

Someone needs to, though, to counter all the Islamic propaganda posts we get here from eninn in particular.

You do it. Hellfire, where your toe grows as big as a mountain. Islam has just as many silly things.

Originally posted by Bentley
Obviously resurrection is not a reasonable belief. Even the notion of history as we know it now was in diapers back in the day so it's difficult to find a reliable source between the ton of propaganda the Roman Empire produced. Both of those things are reason enough not to have any record of any paranormal event that happened inside Roman dominion.



Yup. But many Christians (like this brainwashed Mike in the video) still spread lies to the young and impressionable claiming, "There's so much evidence."

Matt Dillahunty is great because he grew up with the Bible so he knows it well, too, but eventually started using critical thinking.

http://reasonrevolution.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/20799365_477372439285336_399481002981492667_n.jpg

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I'm not nearly as familiar with Muslim nonsense. I grew up with fundamentalist Christianity, so it's what I know the best. But yeah, I'm sure Islam has more than its share of nonsense, like Muhammed flying to heaven on a white horse or some shit like that. It's hard to even make up such stupid shit... oh, wait, maybe it's not

Someone needs to, though, to counter all the Islamic propaganda posts we get here from eninn in particular.

You do it.

Eninn can't be reasoned with, he's either a troll or one of those lunatics who thinks muslims invented math and air planes.

Originally posted by Surtur
Eninn can't be reasoned with, he's either a troll or one of those lunatics who thinks muslims invented math and air planes.

Oh, I know there's no reaching him, but it would be nice to have someone pick all his nonsense apart with a fine comb so it doesn't persuade any passers-by.

I don't understand why someone would think religion can be "proved" by evidence. If such thing could happen it would at the very least render other religions vastly inferior.

There is no dignity in spreading faith through obvious falsehoods

Originally posted by Bentley
I don't understand why someone would think religion can be "proved" by evidence. If such thing could happen it would at the very least render other religions vastly inferior.

There is no dignity in spreading faith through obvious falsehoods

There are already religions that are inferior to others, it has nothing to do with their god and everything to do with their beliefs.

Originally posted by Surtur
There are already religions that are inferior to others, it has nothing to do with their god and everything to do with their beliefs.

Well, I don't necessarily disagree. Ultimately superiority comes to cultural choices which differ over time, specifically trying to move beliefs from one context to another in which they no longer have the same sense it's contentious at best.

Both christians and jews traditionally adapt to the cultures in which they function which I'm pretty sure is not meant to be the case for all practices. They are thus, a bit more context friendly most of the time.

Originally posted by Bentley
Well, I don't necessarily disagree. Ultimately superiority comes to cultural choices which differ over time, specifically trying to move beliefs from one context to another in which they no longer have the same sense it's contentious at best.

Both christians and jews traditionally adapt to the cultures in which they function which I'm pretty sure is not meant to be the case for all practices. They are thus, a bit more context friendly most of the time.

Yeah Christians and others have adapted to modern times, at least a lot better than Islam has.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Hellfire, where your toe grows as big as a mountain. Islam has just as many silly things.
Is that a terrifying metaphor for gout?

A related article...

The evidence that Jesus ever existed is weaker than you might think

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Hey Leech, why dont you make threads about how stupid Islam beliefs are?

Nope... not when there is overwhelming evidence to support it, it's not. Over 500 people saw Jesus alive after He died. Sorry, but I don't believe they all lied. It's not like they got any reward for saying it.


Christians started going thru great persecution soon after His death/resurrection like being fed to the lions, beheaded, crucified, set on fire, and stoned. If they just had renounced Christ then they could've avoided all of it. Who would ever go thru such persecution over a lie?


Also, His body was never found. The romans and the jews who betrayed Christ had a great interest in making sure His body never disappeared. Yet it still did.


So, nah... it's not unreasonable at all. In fact, it is more reasonable to believe it than it isn't.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Nope... not when there is overwhelming evidence to support it, it's not. Over 500 people saw Jesus alive after He died. Sorry, but I don't believe they all lied. It's not like they got any reward for saying it.

You'd need extra-Biblical accounts to take such claims seriously.


Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Christians started going thru great persecution soon after His death/resurrection like being fed to the lions, beheaded, crucified, set on fire, and stoned. If they just had renounced Christ then they could've avoided all of it. Who would ever go thru such persecution over a lie?

Even assuming they did, it's not good enough evidence to rise to the level of the claim. In all intellectual honesty you have to admit that. It's much more likely that people were deceived or deluded through myth than a magic man actually rose from the dead. Sorry, that's just the truth of it.


Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Also, His body was never found. The romans and the jews who betrayed Christ had a great interest in making sure His body never disappeared. Yet it still did.

Again for such an extraordinary claim you'd think there would be more mention of it in sources besides the Bible. The evidence is insufficient, and so is your skepticism. Otherwise you'd have to accept all sorts of other crazy claims about Muhammad and various other religious figures, Hindu gurus, etc.

Did you watch or listen to the debate?

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Nope... not when there is overwhelming evidence to support it, it's not. Over 500 people saw Jesus alive after He died. Sorry, but I don't believe they all lied. It's not like they got any reward for saying it.

Oh, really? What are their names? Where are their individual accounts? And why is it not mentioned anywhere outside of the bible?



Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Christians started going thru great persecution soon after His death/resurrection like being fed to the lions, beheaded, crucified, set on fire, and stoned. If they just had renounced Christ then they could've avoided all of it. Who would ever go thru such persecution over a lie?

Some Buddhists have been willing to immolate themselves. Does that make their beliefs true? Some Muslims have been willing to detonate explosives strapped to their bodies, and fly planes into buildings. Does that make their beliefs true?



Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Also, His body was never found. The romans and the jews who betrayed Christ had a great interest in making sure His body never disappeared. Yet it still did.

How do you know there was a body? And how do you know that it was never found?



Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
So, nah... it's not unreasonable at all. In fact, it is more reasonable to believe it than it isn't.

That is not how the burden of proof works.

Oh, Adam... you just so desperately want God and the Bible to be a "fairy tale" don't you? You know that He would not approve of your lifestyle (and you know what I mean by this). Hate to break it to you, but what happened at Sodom and Gomorrah (God raining fire from the sky & wiping both cities off the face of the earth) were real, actual events... not just "stories" as you no doubt have managed to convince yourself of.


When Judgment Day comes, and rest assured, it will, there will be no second chances.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Oh, Adam... you just so desperately want God and the Bible to be a "fairy tale" don't you? You know that He would not approve of your lifestyle (and you know what I mean by this). Hate to break it to you, but what happened at Sodom and Gomorrah (God raining fire from the sky & wiping both cities off the face of the earth) were real, actual events... not just "stories" as you no doubt have managed to convince yourself of.


When Judgment Day comes, and rest assured, it will, there will be no second chances.

Still not evidence. Just claims.


It's okay to be skeptical, eThneo. You should try it sometime. Especially when the claims are difficult to believe it's best not to be so gullible.

I guarantee you wouldn't be so gullible if the claims were reports of Elvis being seen alive, or f#cking Stephen Hawking seen alive tap-dancing or something.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ.


https://s24195.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/DiwWlqaVAAAMc6e.gif

Same thing I said above goes for you too, PL.

Your evolutionary religion is a lie. It certainly isn't science. Mankind did not evolve from apes or any other lower life form. We were created by God, Himself.


Accept Jesus Christ, before it is too late.

Thanks, bro. My dad is a fundamentalist, too. I grew up that way. (Thank the God I don't believe in) I got out. Reality is so much more interesting and fascinating than delusion.

Threats aren't evidence either, btw, and won't convince anyone.

Worship Odin or burn forever.

...

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Hey Leech, why dont you make threads about how stupid Islam beliefs are?



He participated in one, if he didn't start it ...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t644795.html

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Hey Leech, why dont you make threads about how stupid Islam beliefs are? Originally posted by bluewaterrider
He participated in one, if he didn't start it ...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t644795.html


An obvious example of Whataboutism.

Hey, these people are discrediting Christianity, which can't be logically defended, so all I can do is say, "But what about Islam? Huh?? (the only religion arguably worse than mine)" crybaby

We should do a religion tier thread

Originally posted by Bentley
We should do a religion tier thread I mean... if you like watching dumpster fires...

A relevant and very good discussion on the subject. This one doesn't get heated or hostile at all, so it's a more pleasant discussion. Richard Carrier is a brilliant speaker and writer on this topic and related topics...

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Originally posted by Surtur
So the question is: is it unreasonable to believe that a cosmic entity created the universe and then one day impregnated a human in order to give birth to itself, then had itself die, then had itself brought back only to be reunited with itself?


Yes, that's why Mormons don't believe in the Trinity idea...

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, that's why Mormons don't believe in the Trinity idea...

You Mormons are so awesome. Kudos to you!

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, that's why Mormons don't believe in the Trinity idea... That's actually pretty progressive. It was kinda debunked along time ago that Trinity was responsible for the One's resurrection. Most Zionists still believe it, unfortunately, though a simple skimming of Revelations reveals it to be an obvious heresy.

That's what gets me...

It's roughly calculated that Jesus died nearly 1,989 years ago.

Simply, that's nearly 2,000 years of blind faith & no proof.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
That's what gets me...

It's roughly calculated that Jesus died nearly 1,989 years ago.

Simply, that's nearly 2,000 years of blind faith & no proof.

Yup, it's unfalsifiable. Anyone not indoctrinated should know that it can be dismissed in the absence of significant evidence.

There's simply no good reasons to give it serious consideration.

Which Resurrection? Jesus or Tupac?