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Discuss and why

Yes.

He has snuck past Superman, WW, MMH, the Spectre etc.

It's difficult with Logan though; He has an undisclosed 6th sense that's allowed him to pick up on threats there were no way to perceive through the basic senses.

Here's the thing, batman's suit can conceal his scent and lower the noise he makes so along with his stealth that is why he has feats on sneaking up on kryptonians
However lets not pretend a super has never once found him or that he hasn't been found by less or outdone by less
Now Logan has also been outdone however unlike the supers he has centuries worth of experience dealing with stealth masters and even a number that had tech to help them

Logan picked up on a Shiva droid approaching him because he could smell the solder on it's circuit-boards:
https://i.postimg.cc/yWfx16Dw/lgv.jpg

The dude's picked up on "off" scents in the middle of a city from the edge of a wilderness.
https://i.postimg.cc/Xrjsw8jZ/dusll.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/dZcBDRNV/5uf.jpg

having super senses and having the mindset to keep your head (metaphorically) on a swivel are two separate things. People fool and sneak up on Superman and MMH all the time


while Superman has better over all senses idk if his senses have been shown like Logan's.
I have to find scan but Logan can literally tell the difference between heroes from another dimension even though they're copies , he can sniff out things that don't even have a scent in sewers and can track a person even if they hadn't been there in days .
I've never seen superman do this.


You COULD argue He has wider range. But that doesn't mean better/equal to specific qualities/"match-ups."


Wolverine can sense peculiar shifts in air pressure offering potential threats.
https://i.postimg.cc/Jy44V911/wosl.jpg

Scaling to individual he's prepped for across decades =/= An answer for a guy who randomly senses ghosts.

You can post those wide range of senses but not the core concentration or versatility of them .
None of them people use their noses to see whole events .
They also can't make out individuals who have no scent among other more potent aromas.

https://i.postimg.cc/fkZs6G51/logv.jpg

Superman can see souls. DNA. Hell, he even has 4D vision.

He has heard things from when he's in deep space. Identify specific heartbeats from across the world. Hears shootings from across the world.

And he was STARING/ACTIVELY LOOKING AT Batman when Batman disappeared from him.

The question was CAN Batman sneak up on Logan. Not "will he every time." You bringing up Superman has caught Batman trying to doesn't invalidate DarkSaint bringing it up, when the topic is can he. It doesn't matter if Superman detects him 999 times out of a thousand, given the topic is CAN. Given some of Superman's sensory feats in scale, from detecting specific individuals because of their heart beat out of a city's worth, to hearing Kyle whisper "help" while in another star system(at least) even though there's no air in space, coupled with his mental processing, go a long way in countering your argument that he's not specifically a detect stealthy people type of character.

Also, though rarely used, Superman does indeed have a superhuman sense of smell and has done stuff like determining opponents were hard light constructs because they had no scent.

This is without addressing you dismissing other examples DS gave.

So to answer your question, yes, Batman can.

But Superman can see auras. Smell brownies through space. Has 4d vision. Can detect when things have no scent.

And that's ignoring Batman sneaking past the Spectre. You know, Gods wrath.

Your not fully understanding my point here.

Won't let me quote you but.....you think Superman can't detect that stuff too? He has. I even cited him knowing opponents were hard light constructs due to lack of scent. He's detected pheromones. Has sensed tiny changes in air pressure. And, last I checked, Superman can hear more than a heart beat. If he can be woken up by Kyle whispering "help me" in at least another solar system if not galaxy(I don't think distance was given) then he should be able to hear Batman blinking. Yet, Batman has still gotten around without Superman noticing him, even if on occasion. Comics. Whether you like the answer or not, even if it's 1/1,000, the answer to your question is yes.

Are you protesting because you don't think he'd normally be able to and you very poorly worded your topic title, or are you arguing Batman can't ever sneak by him and don't like the arguments given?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But Superman can see auras. Smell brownies through space. Has 4d vision. Can detect when things have no scent.

And that's ignoring Batman sneaking past the Spectre. You know, Gods wrath. Also this version Spectre was Hal THE one who harness the Logoz

YOU think he's sneaking up on Logan because he sneaks past characters who don't even consistently have heightened sense of smell?
You do know that some writers don't incorporate their senses into stories (either because they forgot they have them or because they just didn't care and needed it to work for the story) so in most cases it's as if they don't even have it.
Logan on the other hand, that's like one of his biggest things is that he has heightened senses, so the writers bring it up quite frequently and tend to utilize it more.

Yes but full capacity. Superman was actively trying to find him. And he disappeared from him.

Now, your question was can he. I've proven that yes, he can, even if it's one occasion out of 1000, or 2000.

In general, every time Batman hides from Supes, he's hidden .

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
YOU think he's sneaking up on Logan because he sneaks past characters who don't even consistently have heightened sense of smell?
You do know that some writers don't incorporate their senses into stories (either because they forgot they have them or because they just didn't care and needed it to work for the story) so in most cases it's as if they don't even have it.
Logan on the other hand, that's like one of his biggest things is that he has heightened senses, so the writers bring it up quite frequently and tend to utilize it more.

Writers not highlighting it doesn't mean it's not active given heightened senses is literally standard. Unless you can prove the writer specifically intended Superman didn't have all his senses enhanced, this argument is irrelevant.

You didn't answer my question. Did you mean "can he do it for a majority" and poorly worded it because fail is fail, or do you legitimately think Batman can't ever and don't like the arguments being used to show he can?

If he can sneak up on Superman, he can sneak up on Logan.

Plus, being sneaky is one of those things Batman is just ridiculously good at. Like, his stealth is almost a superpower at this point.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If he can sneak up on Superman, he can sneak up on Logan.

Plus, being sneaky is one of those things Batman is just ridiculously good at. Like, his stealth is almost a superpower at this point. Yeah but him sneaking up on logan is like him sneaking up on DD. I really dont buy that,

Superman has better hearing feats than DD.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is Batman, WITHOUT using smoke or flashbangs, or any tech, doing his stealth act. Cap wouldn't even find him.

Despite being shot in the back, he disappears from some goons and kidnaps Two Face. IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. WHILST THEY'RE LOOKING AT HIM:
https://i.postimg.cc/hf9rJQJS/allstarbatman1-batman2facetallgrassfield2.jpg

Yah, but those are some no name goons.

How about...Azrael? WHILST AZRAEL IS LOOKING AND TALKING STRAIGHT AT HIM:
https://i.postimg.cc/JGJTbdFC/batstealth-azreal27.jpg

Nah. How about Gotham AND Gotham Girl, both of whom are looking at him, and talking at him, and are using their Ultra Vision?
https://i.postimg.cc/qhRbyJP1/batman2-batmangothamstealth4.jpg
.....
https://i.postimg.cc/0zYBqHG0/batman2-batmangothamstealth5.jpg

Nah. Gotham and Gotham Girl are nobodies.

How about hiding from the ENTIRE JLA for an hour?
https://i.postimg.cc/kRSyvBfv/jla1-batjlastealth1.jpg

Nah. How about MMH AND Superman, WHILST they're looking at him, IN BROAD DAYLIGHT (also, Aquaman, lol)?
https://i.postimg.cc/47q5czb3/jlmidsummernightmare3-batmilitarystealth2.jpg

Nah. HOW ABOUT Superman, WW, Zauriel, and THE FRIGGING SPECTRE, lol, in broad daylight?
https://i.postimg.cc/k6BsDjSZ/spectre24-batmagicstealth6.jpg
.........
https://i.postimg.cc/DWC5vVSL/spectre24-batmagicstealth7.jpg

He literally sneaks up behind them.

And this is all without smoke or blackout bombs or flashbangs. Just Batsy, sneaky sneaky. In some cases, in broad daylight, in front of people.

Originally posted by HueyFreeman
Yeah but him sneaking up on logan is like him sneaking up on DD. I really dont buy that,

There isn't a character in comics that a writer wouldn't show Batman sneaking up on. It passed the point of being realistic a long time ago.

Batman stealth feats are ridiculous.

But Nightwing wins /thread.

http://i.imgur.com/KeZSJJL.jpg

Originally posted by -Pr-
There isn't a character in comics that a writer wouldn't show Batman sneaking up on. It passed the point of being realistic a long time ago.

This. I could see him sneaking up in Spiderman to

Originally posted by Delta1938
Writers not highlighting it doesn't mean it's not active given heightened senses is literally standard. Unless you can prove the writer specifically intended Superman didn't have all his senses enhanced, this argument is irrelevant.

You didn't answer my question. Did you mean "can he do it for a majority" and poorly worded it because fail is fail, or do you legitimately think Batman can't ever and don't like the arguments being used to show he can?

Logan's senses act in a different capacity from what we've seen in concerns to his olfactory.
Either wa,y that isn't the pillar of my argument so much as Batman knows Superman down to the genetic coding and has prepped for his entire team with successful counter measures in multiple ways.
What Batman can do in concerns to Supes isn't, imo, the same as what he can pull off with another character at random, especially if that character has an equivalent training/background.
(Logan has Batman matched in fictional ninja goofiness which arguably does give Batman some edge in skill/training against most metas/supers he's around.)
And, Superman's superior range of senses still don't make up for Logan's random undisclosed 6th sense that he's proven to have when presented with opposition that ought not to have been sensed in the first place.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Logan's senses act in a different capacity from what we've seen in concerns to his olfactory.
Either wa,y that isn't the pillar of my argument so much as Batman knows Superman down to the genetic coding and has prepped for his entire team with successful counter measures in multiple ways.
What Batman can do in concerns to Supes isn't, imo, the same as what he can pull off with another character at random, especially if that character has an equivalent training/background.
(Logan has Batman matched in fictional ninja goofiness which arguably does give Batman some edge in skill/training against most metas/supers he's around.)
And, Superman's superior range of senses still don't make up for Logan's random undisclosed 6th sense that he's proven to have when presented with opposition that ought not to have been sensed in the first place.

So "nuh uh doesn't count." The straw grasping.

You might also want to look atDS' scans, for someone arguing "this isn't all my argument" you're apparently fixated on Superman doesn't count despite better feats 'cuz reasons while not acknowledging a number of otther examples your mental gymnastics against Superman doesn't cover.

So Batman has prepped for the Wrath of God itself.

I mean, let's not oversell things here. Bucky fooled Logan by smearing printer ink on himself. No 6th sense there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes.

He has snuck past Superman, WW, MMH, the Spectre etc.

***Gotham

Was so shocked Batman could do that even with his super senses

I've posted all those scans.

Funny thing is, it's not even the first time I posted it for Alberto.

Wolverine has danger sensory feats that aren't covered by Superman's superior senses; All there is to it.

Mental gymnastics; Like you or whoever else ignoring Wolverine sensing danger when there was nothing physical to perceive? Right.

Puck has snuck up on wolverine. It can be done

No reason to ignore the high end from both characters unless you're fixated towards a bias leaning. jn
There's a possibility Batman can sneak up on Logan. I'm not near convinced that he definitely would or would for a majority out of 10. Your use of Logan's low end while ignoring his high end doesn't convince me otherwise.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Wolverine has danger sensory feats that aren't covered by Superman's superior senses; All there is to it.

Mental gymnastics; Like you or whoever else ignoring Wolverine sensing danger when there was nothing physical to perceive? Right.

Except Superman can see auras. Nothing physical there. Yet he can see them.

And couldn't detect Batman.

The Spectre......I mean, are you going to suggest the Spectre can't perceive immaterial things ?

He couldn't detect Batman.

Bucky covered himself in ink and snuck attacked Wolverine. Where was this danger sensor? The Wolvie sense?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No reason to ignore the high end from both characters unless you're fixated towards a bias leaning. jn
There's a possibility Batman can sneak up on Logan. I'm not near convinced that he definitely would or would for a majority out of 10. Your use of Logan's low end while ignoring his high end doesn't convince me otherwise.

Well, what are BATMAN'S low showings of sneaking? Let's be consistent.

High end Batman is sneaking past the Wrath of God himself.

Low end Batman is......?

High end Wolverine can detect air pressure changes (something that WW can do as well, btw: Batman still snuck by her)

Low end Wolverine? Puck, apparently lmao.

I'm not sure where the scan is of Logan sensing ghosts, btw.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Bucky fooled Logan by smearing printer ink on himself. No 6th sense there.

That sounds ****ing hilarious.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That sounds ****ing hilarious.

https://i.postimg.cc/d7NRnH8R/RCO008.jpg

................

https://i.postimg.cc/wySXY147/RCO011.jpg
.....................

https://i.postimg.cc/SYCWSmHV/RCO012.jpg

He then goes berserker and snaps those handcuffs, Bucky then gets saved by his accomplice (who sneaks up on Logan, without printer ink) and shoots him.

And yes, Bucky is pretty naked there.

That isn't a reason to ignore Logan's high end in a discussion about capabilities. Low ends are red herrings for this discussion which is why they aren't convincing in a conversation of probabilities.
Air pressure changes? Logan's picked up on ghosts and characters that had cloaking devices rendering them "completely undetectable" except for Wolverine sensing them anyway.

And Superman has seen auras and souls.

The Spectre has...well, he's seen his fair share of souls.

Martian Manhunter can also detect invisible/intangible foes (White Martians). Guess who snuck by him?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Wolverine has danger sensory feats that aren't covered by Superman's superior senses; All there is to it.

Mental gymnastics; Like you or whoever else ignoring Wolverine sensing danger when there was nothing physical to perceive? Right.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No reason to ignore the high end from both characters unless you're fixated towards a bias leaning. jn
There's a possibility Batman can sneak up on Logan. I'm not near convinced that he definitely would or would for a majority out of 10. Your use of Logan's low end while ignoring his high end doesn't convince me otherwise.

You've gone from mental gymnastics to dismiss feats and complaining that people are arguing Batman can at all to bringing up strawmen and arguing a vague "danger sense"(can you even prove it's a literal sixth sense and not he's good enough it acts like a 6th sense) to not outright dismissing Superman's feats but saying they don't make up for this supposed sixth sense, and complaining Batman's feats won't make it a majority.

This is..... sorta progress. But initially I didn't care beyond you arguing it wouldn't be at all. Now I'm thinking Batman can do it for a majority, even arguing the high ends for both, after the examples outside Superman, including examples that should be similar to this "danger sense," that DarkSaint showed. Especially after all the arguments you made to dismiss Superman, going into detail that would only apply to Superman.

Batman also snuck up on Daredevil.

Random hand ninjas can sneak up on Logan iirc.

Logan isn't detecting Batman if Batman doesn't want him to. Period.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://i.postimg.cc/d7NRnH8R/RCO008.jpg

................

https://i.postimg.cc/wySXY147/RCO011.jpg
.....................

https://i.postimg.cc/SYCWSmHV/RCO012.jpg

He then goes berserker and snaps those handcuffs, Bucky then gets saved by his accomplice (who sneaks up on Logan, without printer ink) and shoots him.

And yes, Bucky is pretty naked there.

LMAO so that's why "printer ink" is listed as a weakness of his in the handbook

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://i.postimg.cc/d7NRnH8R/RCO008.jpg

................

https://i.postimg.cc/wySXY147/RCO011.jpg
.....................

https://i.postimg.cc/SYCWSmHV/RCO012.jpg

He then goes berserker and snaps those handcuffs, Bucky then gets saved by his accomplice (who sneaks up on Logan, without printer ink) and shoots him.

And yes, Bucky is pretty naked there.

Some great sixth sense attuned to danger displayed there.

Yes easily. Spite thread.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Discuss and why

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No reason to ignore the high end from both characters unless you're fixated towards a bias leaning. jn
There's a possibility Batman can sneak up on Logan. I'm not near convinced that he definitely would or would for a majority out of 10. Your use of Logan's low end while ignoring his high end doesn't convince me otherwise.

So, yes, he can. Thanks all.

geezus, of course he can. how did this nonsense thread make it this far.... (looks through thread). oh yeah, that's how.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Writers not highlighting it doesn't mean it's not active given heightened senses is literally standard. Unless you can prove the writer specifically intended Superman didn't have all his senses enhanced, this argument is irrelevant.

You didn't answer my question. Did you mean "can he do it for a majority" and poorly worded it because fail is fail, or do you legitimately think Batman can't ever and don't like the arguments being used to show he can?
Yeah but that type of logic falls flat on the forum. That type of reasoning can easily be flipped to say that by the same token, if Character A tags Character B(who has super speed) successfully, then it's proof Character A can hit people moving at Character B's top speed. Another example would be using an instance of a character with transmutation losing a fight without transmuting his opponent is automatic proof that his opponent can resist transmutation.

That's not to say that Supes doesn't posses a sense of smell equal to Logan's, nor does it mean that Logan's sense of smell can't be bypassed, I'm just saying that Batman sneaking up on or sneaking away from Supes doesn't indicate that he can sneak past Logan's sense of smell UNLESS it was expressly stated that Supes was trying to "smell him out". A case could be made for heightened senses being the most prominent victims of PIS of any power in comics because lots of people have some form of heightened sense that's constantly getting bypassed for no apparent reason.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but that type of logic falls flat on the forum. That type of reasoning can easily be flipped to say that by the same token, if Character A tags Character B(who has super speed) successfully, then it's proof Character A can hit people moving at Character B's top speed. Another example would be using an instance of a character with transmutation losing a fight without transmuting his opponent is automatic proof that his opponent can resist transmutation.

That's not to say that Supes doesn't posses a sense of smell equal to Logan's, nor does it mean that Logan's sense of smell can't be bypassed, I'm just saying that Batman sneaking up on or sneaking away from Supes doesn't indicate that he can sneak past Logan's sense of smell UNLESS it was expressly stated that Supes was trying to "smell him out". A case could be made for heightened senses being the most prominent victims of PIS of any power in comics because lots of people have some form of heightened sense that's constantly getting bypassed for no apparent reason.

This argument falls apart given his title is "Can Batman sneak up on Logan?" I went in arguing differently than I would because it's not "Will he in X scenario," but a broad can he.
His arguments to me were an attempt to dismiss every time he's done it to Superman.

I do understand the speed argument (which is problematic but decent) but raised an eyebrow on the matter manipulation argument. I guess I just haven't seen someone use that argument, I wouldn't think resistance because it wasn't used unless they said they didn't try because of that. Maybe if it was their only power, but unlikely.

Originally posted by Delta1938
This argument falls apart given his title is "Can Batman sneak up on Logan?" I went in arguing differently than I would because it's not "Will he in X scenario," but a broad can he.
His arguments to me were an attempt to dismiss every time he's done it to Superman.

I do understand the speed argument (which is problematic but decent) but raised an eyebrow on the matter manipulation argument. I guess I just haven't seen someone use that argument, I wouldn't think resistance because it wasn't used unless they said they didn't try because of that. Maybe if it was their only power, but unlikely.
Oh it's been used before. It's not one that comes up all that often because it's a ridiculous argument that dies quickly, but it's popped up before... sometimes I miss nvr lol.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh it's been used before. It's not one that comes up all that often because it's a ridiculous argument that dies quickly, but it's popped up before... sometimes I miss nvr lol.

Fangirl still denies being Nvr. I actually came on well after both were banned but have had the misfortune of coming across her a couple other areas.

He could sneak up on him, sure. It would be a bad idea though.

He could beat Wolvie in a battle too

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
LMAO so that's why "printer ink" is listed as a weakness of his in the handbook

Daniel Way had no respect for Logan, lol.

But to be fair, Bucky still got assraped there. Not a point DS is trying to make, ik, just saying.

Yah. Wolvie went feral and had Bucky at his mercy.

Martian Manhunter (who Batman has snuck past) is not only one of the world's best telepaths, he also has 14 other senses:

https://i.postimg.cc/V6hvhkTG/RCO018-1560932954.jpg

As I see it Joker would likely sneak up on Logan too

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Martian Manhunter (who Batman has snuck past) is not only one of the world's best telepaths, he also has 14 other senses:

https://i.postimg.cc/V6hvhkTG/RCO018-1560932954.jpg he was also easily skimming through the minds of everyone on earth in the same issue

I think so, one thing about Wolverine is he isn't very smart