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Wonder Woman takes on Blue Marvel, who wins

Fight takes place on the moon
All out/bloodlusted
current versions
win by K/O or Death
Wonder Woman has standard gear/power levels
Who wins?

Wonder Woman, every time.

Been done to death. WW is one tier above BM

How would she handle his energy attacks?

starts with a b, ends with a t

Love Wondy but I would give Blue Marvel an advantage over almost any Herald due to his anti-matter blast, strength, durability, etc...

carver's logic

WW>All other DC heralds

Marvel heralds>WW even though he loves her, carver claiming to be a WW fan reminds me of when Surtur claiming to be a superman fan, . It's hilarious

in carver's mind: Hulk>Gladiator>Blue Marvel>WW>>>Superman

when in reality it's the exact reverse

Originally posted by MrMind
carver's logic

WW>All other DC heralds

Marvel heralds>WW even though he loves her, carver claiming to be a WW fan reminds me of when Surtur claiming to be a superman fan, . It's hilarious

in carver's mind: Hulk>Gladiator>Blue Marvel>WW>>>Superman

when in reality it's the exact reverse

Something is wrong with you. I have given Wonder Woman the edge against Gladiator and said that she could possibly beat the Hulk due to the lasso. Even gave her the edge against Surfer. Get out of your feelings. Dont get mad because I'm not following the crowd and repping DC in almost every thread.

But where are you with Pr's question, Carver?

What's Pr question?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=16932664#post16932664

Aaahhhh... you're talking about the comment I made when someone said "if a character didn't use all of his abilities during that fight, it is considered PIS". And then the person asked me "did he use his speed? If he didnt, the fight doesnt count and its PIS". And then I said, "so fights where people doesnt use all of their abilities are considered PIS" and this person said "yes, especially if the person is smart enough to use said abilities". Then I gave up on the argument because my jaw couldnt drop low enough.

Erm....you're kinda misrepresenting the argument, but ok.

Yes, that's the question Pr asked.

Originally posted by MrMind
starts with a b, ends with a t

I get the bracelets, i mean how well would she take a direct hit.

Bracelet or no, having a ranged advantage is a really good advantage

Range blasting Wonder Woman is the worst tactic you can have.

Tbf, going up close is also a bad tactic lol

Pretty much.

Unless you can surpass her strength/speed, you're going to have a bad time under most circumstances.

If Blue Marvel isnt careful, the fight could probably go like this...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-1.jpg
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-2.jpg
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-3.jpg
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-4.jpg

And that's her holding back.

Or this and he was taking on the entire JLA...

http://buzzpreview.buzzcomics.net/2017-06/DC/WWPG1.png
http://buzzpreview.buzzcomics.net/2017-06/DC/WWPG2-3.png
http://buzzpreview.buzzcomics.net/2017-06/DC/WWPG4.png
http://buzzpreview.buzzcomics.net/2017-06/DC/WWPG5.png

Originally posted by MrMind
carver's logic

WW>All other DC heralds

Marvel heralds>WW even though he loves her, carver claiming to be a WW fan reminds me of when Surtur claiming to be a superman fan, . It's hilarious

in carver's mind: Hulk>Gladiator>Blue Marvel>WW>>>Superman

when in reality it's the exact reverse

Lol every post from Carver is adding to your assessment.

I cant post anything from her stomping Marvel characters, lol. Now if you want, I can look for some crossovers of her slapping Hercules around?

She defeats Mongul and another kryptonian and have him helpless...

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111208716/5646705-4301545-4118608-7014275516-41186.jpg

He's seen rage

Diana

Originally posted by carver9
If Blue Marvel isnt careful, the fight could probably go like this...

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-1.jpg
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-2.jpg
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-3.jpg
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/superman-vs-wonder-woman-darkseid-war-4.jpg

And that's her holding back.

Let me get this straight. On your opinion, Diana outmaneuvered a Superman that was amp casually and bloodlusted, yet you believe Blue Marvel can take on a Diana that wants to kill him?

Originally posted by SquallX
Let me get this straight. On your opinion, Diana outmaneuvered a Superman that was amp casually and bloodlusted, yet you believe Blue Marvel can take on a Diana that wants to kill him?

Anti-Matter. That's the only thing I cant see her countering. Without it, Blue Marvel gets his skull ripped clean off of his neck.

But AntiMatter from Blue Marvel isn't exactly potent...

Blue Marvel wins.

Diana can basically trap his soul in her lasso.

http://i.imgur.com/IHfmqBr.jpg

That really won't work.

Yeah - can't see what is supposed to be one of the (if not the) most skilled fighters in the herald class laying themselves open to an attack like that without PIS.

But I guess some do.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But AntiMatter from Blue Marvel isn't exactly potent...

Was this said on panel?

Well you're the one who always talks about feats. Who has he taken out, on his own, with blasts alone?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well you're the one who always talks about feats. Who has he taken out, on his own, with blasts alone?

That's not really cause to claim that his energy blasts are weak though. You're only assuming this,, while in the meantime every superhuman action that he makes is due to the energy that he possesses. It was powerful enough to trap a cosmic that went on to help combat the Dark Celestial beings that Galactus was tasked to defeat.

You also doubt that he can hit her, but I wonder if that would be the case if Sentry, Namor, or Hyperion fought her? Or is this a racial issue?

Originally posted by MrMind
starts with a b, ends with a t

Not sure how that would help here?

https://m.imgur.com/OJeeVov

Originally posted by Stoic
That's not really cause to claim that his energy blasts are weak though. You're only assuming this,, while in the meantime every superhuman action that he makes is due to the energy that he possesses. It was powerful enough to trap a cosmic that went on to help combat the Dark Celestial beings that Galactus was tasked to defeat.

You also doubt that he can hit her, but I wonder if that would be the case if Sentry, Namor, or Hyperion fought her? Or is this a racial issue?

Erm....no it's not a racial issue.

For a start, you don't know my ethnicity lmao.

Sentry has speed feats. Namor would lose. Hyperion has speed feats. Blue Marvel? Erm......

Is this a sexism issue? Because she's a woman? Lmao see how easily it can be turned on you?

All I asked for were feats of his antimatter being powerful enough to not be considered 'potent'. That's all lol.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Not sure how that would help here?

https://m.imgur.com/OJeeVov

Because a bloodlusted Diana is going to stand there?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm....no it's not a racial issue.

For a start, you don't know my ethnicity lmao.

Sentry has speed feats. Namor would lose. Hyperion has speed feats. Blue Marvel? Erm......

Is this a sexism issue? Because she's a woman? Lmao see how easily it can be turned on you?

All I asked for were feats of his antimatter being powerful enough to not be considered 'potent'. That's all lol.



Because a bloodlusted Diana is going to stand there?

It wasn't turned on me, but if you believe that conti is onward.Youre original assessment was that he could not hit her. He's hit Namor, beat down Hyperion, and flattened Sentry. Then he subdued a cosmic with his power, and that's not enough to contend here?

Originally posted by Stoic
It wasn't turned on me, but if you believe that conti is onward.Youre original assessment was that he could not hit her. He's hit Namor, beat down Hyperion, and flattened Sentry. Then he subdued a cosmic with his power, and that's not enough to contend here?

So nothing about his antimatter blasts. Thanks.

That's like me using all of Superman's feats and linking it to his HV blasts, lol.

'Everything he does uses solar power, so imagine his strength and speed feats, but in his HV!!!'.

Doesn't work like that, sport.

Edit: if you really want to get pedantic, then we can link it to his solar flare attack, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm....no it's not a racial issue.

For a start, you don't know my ethnicity lmao.

Sentry has speed feats. Namor would lose. Hyperion has speed feats. Blue Marvel? Erm......

Is this a sexism issue? Because she's a woman? Lmao see how easily it can be turned on you?

All I asked for were feats of his antimatter being powerful enough to not be considered 'potent'. That's all lol.



Because a bloodlusted Diana is going to stand there?

His blasts are an effective part of his arsenal. And his power use is diverse:

https://m.imgur.com/lMotU64

BM has fought both of the above evenly and defeats a version of one. None of them out speed him.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
His blasts are an effective part of his arsenal. And his power use is diverse:

https://m.imgur.com/lMotU64

BM has fought both of the above evenly and defeats a version of one. None of them out speed him.

'A version', apparently, is what passes for feats now? Lol.

So you think those guys were fighting with speeds on par with a bloodlusted Diana? I mean, Carver has shown some feats, but I'm sure I can post some of her speed feats as well?

Honest question. I mean, after all I can show speedsters being hit in comics, are you seriously going to argue that their opponents possess that level of speed as well?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well you're the one who always talks about feats. Who has he taken out, on his own, with blasts alone?

I cant show you what you're asking for because he doesnt use his blasts against opponents. Example, in his fight against Hyperion, he blasted him but not directly. The blast circled around Hyperion body (intention NOT to kill) but it still damaged him.

Originally posted by carver9
I cant show you what you're asking for because he doesnt use his blasts against opponents. Example, in his fight against Hyperion, he blasted him but not directly. The blast circled around Hyperion body (intention NOT to kill) but it still damaged him.

It circled around Hyperion's body, and yet Hyperion nearly shit on himself from the pain huh?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'A version', apparently, is what passes for feats now? Lol.

So you think those guys were fighting with speeds on par with a bloodlusted Diana? I mean, Carver has shown some feats, but I'm sure I can post some of her speed feats as well?

Honest question. I mean, after all I can show speedsters being hit in comics, are you seriously going to argue that their opponents possess that level of speed as well?

Yeah a version that was easily as powerful as the one that cut Namor's head off, or the one that has given Thor, Hulk, and Gladiator a hard time.

Originally posted by Stoic


Yeah a version that was easily as powerful as the one that cut Namor's head off, or the one that has given Thor, Hulk, and Gladiator a hard time. Didn't it take the entire Exiles team with two separate versions of Hyperion in order to defeat King Hyperion?

And yet a punch from a weakened and injured Exiles Sasquatch had him on his knees for a period

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b3e86955a0b0052baa344e21eaf2a3f6/tenor.gif

Originally posted by carver9
I cant show you what you're asking for because he doesnt use his blasts against opponents. Example, in his fight against Hyperion, he blasted him but not directly. The blast circled around Hyperion body (intention NOT to kill) but it still damaged him.

Ok. So you don't have any showings of it's potency.

So my initial statement, that is not as potent, still stands. Thanks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'A version', apparently, is what passes for feats now? Lol.

So you think those guys were fighting with speeds on par with a bloodlusted Diana? I mean, Carver has shown some feats, but I'm sure I can post some of her speed feats as well?

Honest question. I mean, after all I can show speedsters being hit in comics, are you seriously going to argue that their opponents possess that level of speed as well?

All Hyperions are versions, since none of them are indigenous to 616. King Hyperion is able to effectively fight two other versions because he bloodlusts.

Now tell me why would BM not possess that level of speed? He has no history of being blitzed or dominated speedwise the way that Hulk, Thor and Surfer have. BM is actually a character with practically no low showings.

There was never any indication of Miss America having superspeed until Monica observes her moving in slow motion while Monica is in light speed mode. No blur lines before or after and when BM knocks out Ultimate Hulk, we see a blur circle that is indicative of a speed attack. What kills me is this speed dominance commonly embraced by DC fans that isn't supported by the comics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok. So you don't have any showings of it's potency.

So my initial statement, that is not as potent, still stands. Thanks.

He presented the attack on King Hyperion. I showed the diverse use of his energy. Youbrepo d by splitting hairs.

Current Diana is a lord of Chaos. She destroys Blue Marvel 10/10.

https://i.imgur.com/bB20FDx.jpg

dude...seriously....

Read the OP. Current versions!

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Read the OP. Current versions!

It says standard power levels.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
All Hyperions are versions, since none of them are indigenous to 616. King Hyperion is able to effectively fight two other versions because he bloodlusts.

Now tell me why would BM not possess that level of speed? He has no history of being blitzed or dominated speedwise the way that Hulk, Thor and Surfer have. BM is actually a character with practically no low showings.

There was never any indication of Miss America having superspeed until Monica observes her moving in slow motion while Monica is in light speed mode. No blur lines before or after and when BM knocks out Ultimate Hulk, we see a blur circle that is indicative of a speed attack. What kills me is this speed dominance commonly embraced by DC fans that isn't supported by the comics.

Forum rules, brah.



WW is bloodlusted here. She has her standard gear (not getting into Golgo's points, lol). So that's her sword, shield, lasso, tiara.

You say BM has no low showings. But neither does he have ANY high speed feats, either. All you are doing is scaling off his opponents....well, WW has fought and tagged Flash, care to match speed feats between Flash and Namor? Flash and Hyperion? Sentry? I mean, this is the character who blocked the Omega Beams in her first appearances, then stabbed DS' eyes out. Said beams were nearly hitting Flash. She's pretty much the best at dealing with long range energy attacks - and the Omega Beams are way more versatile than BM's antimatter.

At the end of the day, for BM to win, WW has to stand there and allow herself to get hit. Or to slow herself down just so he has a chance.

But this is a forum fight, not a comic fight.

We have DS (at pretty much point blank range; certainly shorter than the 500m both combatants start at):
https://imgur.com/a/FGkcF

Apollo (not the Wildstorm guy):
https://imgur.com/a/WVbUH

Cheetah (although this was when she was GoW):
https://imgur.com/a/JLzXN

Zod (Whilst fighting Faora at the same time):
https://imgur.com/a/q9xJH

Reverse Flash:
https://imgur.com/a/gJLuG

HV:
https://imgur.com/a/T09J0

Supergirl (who was fighting Flash evenly, but SPECIFICALLY says she's too fast:
https://imgur.com/a/MfQwX

But yeah, somehow, BM is going to be able to get a bubble around her as she stands there and lets him bubble her up. A bloodlusted WW, no less.

So again you're saying that he has absolutely no way to hit her, or he won't be able to because he's too slow, while Aquaman had no problem hitting her. Blue Marvel , and the guys that he has hit are all much faster than Aquaman. And it does work that way sport. It's their powers that give them ability strength. You didn't prove anything other than your intent to ignore on panel evidence. His blast hurt King Hyperion who is probably more durable than she is in general. A version of Hyperion was also able to fight evenly in a heated battle with Gladiator, or are you going to also pretend that Gladiator is slow? At this point, I can see how heavily you lean to one side that you're even resorting to lying.

Originally posted by Stoic
So again you're saying that he has absolutely no way to hit her, or he won't be able to because he's too slow, while Aquaman had no problem hitting her. Blue Marvel , and the guys that he has hit are all much faster than Aquaman. And it does work that way sport. It's their powers that give them ability strength. You didn't prove anything other than your intent to ignore on panel evidence. His blast hurt King Hyperion who is probably more durable than she is in general. A version of Hyperion was also able to fight evenly in a heated battle with Gladiator, or are you going to also pretend that Gladiator is slow? At this point, I can see how heavily you lean to one side that you're even resorting to lying.

Yes, I am saying she is too fast for him. Slower characters tag fast characters in comics all the time; Flashs greatest enemy is a gorilla with normal stats, lol. If you want to play who tags whom, Batman becomes the greatest Leaguer lol. On panel, in a canon comic.

In a forum fight with PIS off, no, unless you have some speed feats of BM?

Wait are you sharing ALL Hyperion feats together now? Jeez.

But yeah, read the ruling I quoted above.

That's fine. You are dependent on forum rules to make your case. In unrestricted debate based strictly on the canon comics where the characters officially reside, he wins IMO.

WW is too experienced, skilled and fast to lose.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
That's fine. You are dependent on forum rules to make your case. In unrestricted debate based strictly on the canon comics where the characters officially reside, he wins IMO.

So in comics where PIS is able to reign supreme (where slow characters can tag faster characters) then sure.

I mean, you've literally not shown any speed feats from BM. And have just shown what, him fighting King Hype? The same one who was gettingtagged by depowered Juggy (hardly known as a speedster) and weakened Sasquatch?

So does that mean they're all the same in terms of speed?

Meanwhile, I've got actual speedsters like Supergirl explicitly saying she's too fast for her. I have Omega Beams which were chasing Flash, being deflected at close range by her bracelets. The gap in showings is too far.

Blue Marvel's speed:

https://imgur.com/a/Fi5IjCB

https://m.imgur.com/a/0R4SNkQ

Yeah, I'll vote WW is superior in speed.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Blue Marvel's speed:

https://imgur.com/a/Fi5IjCB

https://m.imgur.com/a/0R4SNkQ

Finally, something....ish.

The inevitable question, of course - how fast is Rodstvow? Because he defeated BM, who admitted he was unable to stop him in that dimension.

Here is the issue I have with 'speed lines' as an indication of speed.

It's not.

I know it's a common thing in anime, so I can understand people's love for it.
Street levellers do it all the time - and I would NOT call them speedsters.

Here's a weakened Robin doing it:
https://i.postimg.cc/5tG3ZrJ9/80lyOPx.png

Here's Batman doing it:
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/198/4480/400/batman%201.jpg

Sure, it's not exactly the same as the BM example - but my point still stands, I think.

In BM's case, there is an extremeness of speed lines to the point of being awashed in them when he charges Rodstvow. Along with that, we see two individuals who are quite visibly affected by the force of his movement when he runs between them and Rodstvow has absolutely no time to react.

Rodstvow's motion towards BM shows classic speed lines accompanying ghost images that are overwhelmingly used to portray extreme speed and BM effectively counters that attack with a good amount of speed lines accompanying his counter. If you look at the entire fight between the two teams, you hardly see speed lines with any movements of the other characters except for Monica in her light form.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
In BM's case, there is an extremeness of speed lines to the point of being awashed in them when he charges Rodstvow. Along with that, we see two individuals who are quite visibly affected by the force of his movement when he runs between them and Rodstvow has absolutely no time to react.

Rodstvow's motion towards BM shows classic speed lines accompanying ghost images that are overwhelmingly used to portray extreme speed and BM effectively counters that attack with a good amount of speed lines accompanying his counter. If you look at the entire fight between the two teams, you hardly see speed lines with any movements of the other characters except for Monica in her light form.

So you're saying his speed lines are what, twice as extreme as Robin's? 10x? Even at 100x as extreme (lol), you're essentially saying BM is 100x faster than a street leveller. Because you're basing it all off art lines, which is extremely subjective. And this is pretty much all we have as proof of Marvel's speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're saying his speed lines are what, twice as extreme as Robin's? 10x? Even at 100x as extreme (lol), you're essentially saying BM is 100x faster than a street leveller. Because you're basing it all off art lines, which is extremely subjective. And this is pretty much all we have as proof of Marvel's speed.

I also included the full body ghost images accompanying speed lines with regard to Rodstvow as well as the evident strain on the two metahumans caused by the force BM generates. Zum inflicts less strain on the citizens he passes by:

https://imgur.com/a/OsSmHTw

Dont understand why speed is the main topic here but I'll participate. Flies from New York to Greece, defeats an enemy and return during mid convo...

https://m.imgur.com/2BiVUuM
https://m.imgur.com/vJlGhWM
https://m.imgur.com/zQERLP8

Originally posted by TheHulkster
I also included the full body ghost images accompanying speed lines with regard to Rodstvow as well as the evident strain on the two metahumans caused by the force BM generates. Zum inflicts less strain on the citizens he passes by:

https://imgur.com/a/OsSmHTw

Wait wait wait, are you saying because Zum didn't affect the squishy humans (collateral damage argument) Adam is faster? Just wondering what the point of that scan is.

Originally posted by carver9
Dont understand why speed is the main topic here but I'll participate. Flies from New York to Greece, defeats an enemy and return during mid convo...

https://m.imgur.com/2BiVUuM
https://m.imgur.com/vJlGhWM
https://m.imgur.com/zQERLP8

How is that a showing of his combat reflexes lmao. Is travel speed now = combat speed? Delicious. Shall I post Supergirls travel speed feats? Flash? Then say hey, WW still tagged them?

Greece to NYC is nothing compared to the two I ust mentioned lmao.

Oh, I'm sure you're going to say 'but he also fought Ultimo in that time, but you have no scans showing how he did it. He could have just flown through Ultimo, without stopping.....No combat reflexes needed.

But yeah, you probably shouldn't distract Hulkster lmao.

Blue Marvel has a long ways away to catch up to WW, in terms of speed feats. Her showings against Superman and Cheetah are superior.

Honestly dunno why BM threads are so popular, such a generic character

Here's a street leveller, awash with speed lines, running past multiple opponents and affecting them. I'm going to curse his claws, because it obv shows it's him clawing them up lol...but imagine it was just him punching and pushing past them as he ran.

https://i.postimg.cc/PJnDRJdL/CJOtdJO.png

But yeah, I'm going to say how Zum didn't even affect the civvies, yet Wolverines speed is high enough to affect them

Or, you know, Batman moving so fast that his body distorts, giving him two heads:
https://i.postimg.cc/pTsGXGgP/impulse50-batimpulse1.jpg

But yes, that makes him BM level.

Prove that there is any shoulder bargering in any of those examples. You can't make things up. I'm sure that neither Gladiator nor Blue Marvel have six foot wide shoulders 😂.

How is Wolverine cutting guns related to velocity generated force? Where is Wolverine awashed in speed lines? He is not even pictured in the panel.

And your Batman example is a joke. Keep searching for something to justify your need for BM to not be able to touch Diana.

Why is it an "SPEED!" "MMMFTL!! DURR HURR" argument with dc swallowers everytime they have a disadvantage?

Diana's been TAGGED CONSISTENTLY plenty of times by less

I wouldn't put it beyond Batman to actually speed-blitz Blue Marvel

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Prove that there is any shoulder bargering in any of those examples. You can't make things up. I'm sure that neither Gladiator nor Blue Marvel have six foot wide shoulders 😂.
They're.....not standing six foot apart lmao:
https://m.imgur.com/a/Fi5IjCB
Now who's making things up? Where did you get six feet?



My point was that Wolverine was covered in speed lines, and interacted with the guys. Surely the fact you can't even see him makes him even faster lol.



A joke? He shows the same distortion as in your scan....I mean what, is your example twice as impressive (so BM is twice as fast)?

My point is that using art alone is a pretty dodgy way to prove your point.

I on the other hand, have ACTUAL speedsters SPECIFICALLY remarking WW is too fast for them. Not too strong, or too skilled, or too fierce...too FAST.

And that was when she WASN'T bloodlusted, like she is here.

Look, I'm NOT saying BM is slow. He has superspeed. But WW is the the character SPEEDSTERS find fast, lol. There are levels to this.

All you have, is a showing where BM ultimately lost.

not that speed is relevant, Adam one-shotted the same trans tier Pagan who was dominating an entire roster of George's Perez Avengers that consisted of Thor, Ionic Wonder Woman, and vision. He also smiled from attacks like amped she hulk

And WW has her lasso

And Marvel has FTL reaction

And WW can consume his soul.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
And Marvel has FTL reaction

Proof of this?

So again...

You think this example:

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Blue Marvel's speed:

https://imgur.com/a/Fi5IjCB

https://m.imgur.com/a/0R4SNkQ

Is comparable to this example:

https://i.imgur.com/DHM4OIX.jpg

Where Supergirl specifically uses her energy attacks, WW is trying to talk to her, AND she is specifically too fast for Supergirl?

And in this thread, WW is now bloodlusted, and has her sword? The same sword she had no hesitation in using to carve DS' eye out with?
https://i.imgur.com/tUJkVka.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Why is it an "SPEED!" "MMMFTL!! DURR HURR" argument with dc swallowers everytime they have a disadvantage?

Diana's been TAGGED CONSISTENTLY plenty of times by less

Blue Marvel has been tagged by King Hyperion (who, by the by, beat him):
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/88267/3956357-age_of_heroes_03_pg_17_copy.jpg

Same King Hype who was getting tagged by a depowered Juggernaut:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11121/111213429/5514024-0983585902-52372.jpg

And had his neck broken by Namorita:
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5514088-6947276320-13504.jpg

He's also been tagged by Miss America:
https://imgur.com/a/GQGim72

Yeah, but Miss America is super duper fast!!

Miss America, having problems with a street leveller (ok ok, Low Meta lol):
https://imgur.com/a/EmYZeQJ

ADAM! BEHIND YOU!!!
https://imgur.com/a/Vkd562m

FTL Blue Marvel, struggling with the Chitauri.

Note: I am ONLY bringing these up because low showings are being used as if they mean something.

Blue Marvel is sooooo fast!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So again...

You think this example:



Is comparable to this example:

https://i.imgur.com/DHM4OIX.jpg

Where Supergirl specifically uses her energy attacks, WW is trying to talk to her, AND she is specifically too fast for Supergirl?

And in this thread, WW is now bloodlusted, and has her sword? The same sword she had no hesitation in using to carve DS' eye out with?
https://i.imgur.com/tUJkVka.jpg



Blue Marvel has been tagged by King Hyperion (who, by the by, beat him):
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/88267/3956357-age_of_heroes_03_pg_17_copy.jpg

Same King Hype who was getting tagged by a depowered Juggernaut:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11121/111213429/5514024-0983585902-52372.jpg

And had his neck broken by Namorita:
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5514088-6947276320-13504.jpg

He's also been tagged by Miss America:
https://imgur.com/a/GQGim72

Yeah, but Miss America is super duper fast!!

Miss America, having problems with a street leveller (ok ok, Low Meta lol):
https://imgur.com/a/EmYZeQJ

ADAM! BEHIND YOU!!!
https://imgur.com/a/Vkd562m

FTL Blue Marvel, struggling with the Chitauri.

Note: I am ONLY bringing these up because low showings are being used as if they mean something.

and you wonder why I don't waste my breathe on you. everything with you is lowball, stop it. It's getting toxic

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
and you wonder why I don't waste my breathe on you. everything with you is lowball, stop it. It's getting toxic

Wait did you even read my post?

I only brought it up because YOU, YOU were the one who tried to bring low showings in here, lmao.

Keep this behavior up, and you'll soon be on the ignore list.

Lmao.

Not sure why that's a threat? You can ask Carver...all it means is that I can keep replying to you, pointing out all of your errors....and you can't reply.

You'll basically become my punchbag. And everyone else in the forum can read my replies to you, and still see me making fun of you.

It's the dream, actually. You'll never report me, because you can't see what I'm abusing you with....if I ever do. I can say what I want

....ok....
Have fun with that i guess

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They're.....not standing six foot apart lmao:
https://m.imgur.com/a/Fi5IjCB
My point is that using art alone is a pretty dodgy way to prove your point.

I on the other hand, have ACTUAL speedsters SPECIFICALLY remarking WW is too fast for them. Not too strong, or too skilled, or too fierce...too FAST.

And that was when she WASN'T bloodlusted, like she is here.

Look, I'm NOT saying BM is slow. He has superspeed. But WW is the the character SPEEDSTERS find fast, lol. There are levels to this.

All you have, is a showing where BM ultimately lost.

Aren't both characters bloodlusted? Amazing the one sided thinking.

Speedsters declaring Diana as to fast for them is PIS. Unusable. A bloodlusted BM would unleash overwhelming power on her.

And what does someone morphing into a cosmic entity have anything to do with this?

BM STILL doesn't have anything that can bypass the lasso. Diana was able to hold Superman AKA the God of Strength during the Darkseid Wars.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Aren't both characters bloodlusted? Amazing the one sided thinking.

Speedsters declaring Diana as to fast for them is PIS. Unusable. A bloodlusted BM would unleash overwhelming power on her.

And what does someone morphing into a cosmic entity have anything to do with this?

Love how you don't actually address my points though

So in short:


I never used low showings, Alberto started bringing them up so I thought I'd nip it in the bud. But thanks for noticing the Juggy scans were to show that using the old 'A beat B who has XYZ showings, therefore scale off them' argument is wrong.

Unless of course, B EXPLICITLY says A beat them using a property that's being argued.
Good to see that you acknowledge showings from Pre 52 WW as equally valid(as the majority of your showings are). Does that mean I'm allowed to use high showings from pre-52? Note all my showings so far haven't been
A few thousand times more impressive than Batman? How did you arrive at this figure, seeing as this is incredibly subjective, just as I have been pointing out all this time?
No counter to my question for them being six feet apart?
Yes, if you get pushed backwards your hair would fly up.
Selectively crying PIS? ALL I said was when a slower character tags a faster one, it's ALWAYS PIS. It's up to YOU to prove WW is slower than Supergirl...good luck when Supergirl has, in a canon comic, admitted she's faster
One sided thinking? Isn't that what you did a few pages back, saying WW was just going to stand there whilst BM tried to bubble her up, something that he acknowledges needs more finesse? MY point was, when WW was calm, she was fast enough to outspeed Supergirl. When bloodlusted, she'd likely be faster. YOUR point is......?


I never used low showings, except WHEN BROUGHT UP BY ALBERTO.

Thought that point needed to be reinforced, lol.

His blast didnt even touch Hyperion (I guess he did this because he didnt go into the fight with the intent to kill) and it nearly dropped him...

https://m.imgur.com/lMotU64

Originally posted by carver9
His blast didnt even touch Hyperion (I guess he did this because he didnt go into the fight with the intent to kill) and it nearly dropped him...

https://m.imgur.com/lMotU64

That scene is what I was referring to when I posted. His blast didn't do any damage to Hyperion.
His blasts basically has 0 feats.

Originally posted by h1a8
That scene is what I was referring to when I posted. His blast didn't do any damage to Hyperion.
His blasts basically has 0 feats.

Hyperion was on his knees struggling to get words out. Yes, it damaged him.

No if catching people unawares is due to speed instead of finesse more times than not, Batman should've been caught more times than not. It's not to say that in certain situations that speed wouldn't work, because logically it would. This really comes down to the character that is doing the sneaking. However, Blue Marvel is far faster than many of the characters that have hit Wonder Woman. If I need to spell it out to you, what I am saying is that Adam would be able to hit her. So, if you are, or have been trying to fortify an argument that paints him looking like a statue, there are plenty of examples on her side alone that nullifies it.

Her lasso could end this.

Whether she wins or not, it would not mean that she was more powerful than he is. She isn't. Nor is she an entire tier above him. She may win, but it would be more because of her brand of exploitative attacks, and ability to subdue beings above her power level. Even this notion can't be assured with 100% certainty, because shit happens.

Originally posted by Stoic
No if catching people unawares is due to speed instead of finesse more times than not, Batman should've been caught more times than not. It's not to say that in certain situations that speed wouldn't work, because logically it would. This really comes down to the character that is doing the sneaking. However, Blue Marvel is far faster than many of the characters that have hit Wonder Woman. If I need to spell it out to you, what I am saying is that Adam would be able to hit her. So, if you are, or have been trying to fortify an argument that paints him looking like a statue, there are plenty of examples on her side alone that nullifies it.

But what feats of speed does BM have? I have been asking this.

Because he fights speedy characters and THEY don't outspeed him? But OTHER characters have ALSO fought these same speedy characters and weren't outsped.

King Hyperion? Depowered Juggernaut.

Sentry? Hercules (and depowered Rulk, who wasn't Loebforce).

Namor? Captain America.

Now, you will argue that these were all low showings for King Hype, Sentry, and Namor.

I agree 3000. But why are those fights low showings for the three, and yet, when they fight BM and HE isn't outsped, are those BM fights not low showings for the three?

I'm not trying to throw low showings at BM. I am asking why are his fights with King Hype et al not seen as low showings for those characters. We assume that they are all fighting at their peak efficiencies when facing Adam, because..?

And again, I ALSO have speedy characters vs WW. But with THEM, they specifically mention her speed. How she's 'too fast'.

We also have 'objective' showings. Omega Beams don't have slow or fast gears, and in the n52, in their first showing, they were fast enough to nearly hit Flash, who was running out of breath. Yet, WW was fast enough to react to them, block them, then cut their source out.

You're literally naming "low showings" for Blue Marvel right now when I haven;t even started with a single example yet you wanna call ME a lowballer LMAO?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You're literally naming "low showings" for Blue Marvel right now when I haven;t even started with a single example yet you wanna call ME a lowballer LMAO?

It's called nipping it in the bud. Do you understand, or do I need to walk you through it?

By doing so, I make you look stupid if you decide to start using low showings. Because I have already pre-empted you.

Wasn't I on ignore? LMAO.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


But what feats of speed does BM have? I have been asking this.

Because he fights speedy characters and THEY don't outspeed him? But OTHER characters have ALSO fought these same speedy characters and weren't outsped.

King Hyperion? Depowered Juggernaut.

Sentry? Hercules (and depowered Rulk, who wasn't Loebforce).

Namor? Captain America.

Now, you will argue that these were all low showings for King Hype, Sentry, and Namor.

I agree 3000. But why are those fights low showings for the three, and yet, when they fight BM and HE isn't outsped, are those BM fights not low showings for the three?

I'm not trying to throw low showings at BM. I am asking why are his fights with King Hype et al not seen as low showings for those characters. We assume that they are all fighting at their peak efficiencies when facing Adam, because..?

And again, I ALSO have speedy characters vs WW. But with THEM, they specifically mention her speed. How she's 'too fast'.

We also have 'objective' showings. Omega Beams don't have slow or fast gears, and in the n52, in their first showing, they were fast enough to nearly hit Flash, who was running out of breath. Yet, WW was fast enough to react to them, block them, then cut their source out.

Why are you not mentioning that the Omega beams hit Superman?

I like a good laugh

I didn't nitpick or lowball though, I made a very general statement which is common with comics, that's not lowballing like Hulkster said. YOU just wanted to post those irrelevant low ends because you felt like it, NOBODY tempted you buddy

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you not mentioning that the Omega beams hit Superman?

Well if you noticed, I've been trying to avoid mentioning Supes - hence the use of Faora/Zod, 'HV', Supergirl.....

And yes, they hit Superman too. But Flash is faster than Supes, so I thought it was more....impressive that they nearly caught THE fastest guy in running in DC.



By the by, Pr was asking for clarification on your Doomsday question in the Comics Discussion thread.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I like a good laugh

I didn't nitpick or lowball though, I made a very general statement which is common with comics, that's not lowballing like Hulkster said. YOU just wanted to post those irrelevant low ends because you felt like it, NOBODY tempted you buddy

General statements are useless when we have the full capacity rule, buddy

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil




so even if he gets tagged all the time by slower opponents, unusable.

Now replace 'Flash' with 'WW', as I have proven that she possesses that level of speed.

Saying she 'generally' gets tagged by slower opponents is moot because she is now fighting at FULL capacity.

BM? All we have is some art that proves he has SOME level of superspeed. That's all I am saying. Doesn't mean he has the level to react to WW.

comics doesn't work that way.

https://i.postimg.cc/bZrHThjN/6986731-7238498014-69867.jpg

Damage with no remotely any impressive superspeed or sort was able to tag Flash, while the same dude struggled to touch Batman

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
comics doesn't work that way.

https://i.postimg.cc/bZrHThjN/6986731-7238498014-69867.jpg

Damage with no remotely any impressive superspeed or sort was able to tag Flash, while the same dude struggled to touch Batman

But this is the forum now, not comics.

So as my quote of the full capacity rule said, even if XYZ doesn't happen in every single fight, if they can do it in a forum fight, it's fair game.

We don't have to draw a long exciting fight scene. If the fight ends in a single panel, it ends in a single panel. Namor can stand there all day and get punched by Cap A, because he can take punches from an enraged She-Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and Cap Marvel:

https://i.postimg.cc/75VWyGFn/RCO014.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/K1FHVrHY/RCO015.jpg

But in comics? Cap, without using his shield, makes him bleed, lol:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMFdBPKk/RCO020-1557328955.jpg

We ignore the last scan. Because we don't care if it happened in canon comics, because PIS and the Full Capacity rule work against it.

I mean, using your argument, then Namor vs Cap is a legit fight, and not spite at all, because Cap has shown he is fast enough to punch Namor, and strong enough to hurt him (and is certainly skilled enough).

But just try making that fight on the forum, lol.

In comics, it looks good for the slower/weaker fighter to tag the stronger/faster character.

In forum fights, it becomes a massacre.

Guess that's reasonable

This is what I mean. So using Hulkster's examples, Deathstroke and Batman have tagged WW (and even hurt her). But how do we have those showings, AND the numerous showings where she reacts to HV and Omega Beams etc?

We all agree that they are low showings. Therefore, unusable. I cannot say Deathstroke has FTL reactions, even though he has tagged Flash. I cannot say Spiderman takes heralds down.

So, back to the topic on hand. BM fights King Hyperion. We say KH is superfast. Does that mean BM is superfast, just because he was able to fight evenly with KH? Remember my scan above with Cap A and Namor. Remember that KH ALSO fought rather evenly with a depowered Juggy.

What makes us believe that the KH BM fought was bringing his A-game?

With WW/Supergirl, we have Supergirl specifically commenting that WW was too fast. We have the Omega Beams being deflected, even after they have hit superfast characters, and were exhausting even the fastest characters in DC (though not catching them).

This is my argument.

Do you think speed gives her the majority though?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But this is the forum now, not comics.

So as my quote of the full capacity rule said, even if XYZ doesn't happen in every single fight, if they can do it in a forum fight, it's fair game.

We don't have to draw a long exciting fight scene. If the fight ends in a single panel, it ends in a single panel. Namor can stand there all day and get punched by Cap A, because he can take punches from an enraged She-Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and Cap Marvel:

https://i.postimg.cc/75VWyGFn/RCO014.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/K1FHVrHY/RCO015.jpg

But in comics? Cap, without using his shield, makes him bleed, lol:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMFdBPKk/RCO020-1557328955.jpg

We ignore the last scan. Because we don't care if it happened in canon comics, because PIS and the Full Capacity rule work against it.

I mean, using your argument, then Namor vs Cap is a legit fight, and not spite at all, because Cap has shown he is fast enough to punch Namor, and strong enough to hurt him (and is certainly skilled enough).

But just try making that fight on the forum, lol.

In comics, it looks good for the slower/weaker fighter to tag the stronger/faster character.

In forum fights, it becomes a massacre.
See now I'm obligated to disagree cause you used Cap as an example lol. Cap hits that level too frequently IMO. Don't get me wrong because I do consider to be extremely high end for him, but not infrequent enough to toss it out completely. I mean he does that kind of thing at least 2 or 3 times a year and it's not like he's at the top of the list when it comes to number of appearances.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Do you think speed gives her the majority though?

Speed, PLUS the haxx weaponry she has (which is boosted by the bloodlust stip).

Her lasso and sword are one shot weapons IF she can land them. I believe she has the skill to use them, AND the speed to land the hits.

Both sides are bloodlusted, true. But if I face Mike Tyson, and we're both bloodlusted....but I have a gun (which is faster than him)....doesn't matter if he's stronger, or more versatile, or more skilled at cooking/fighting/rapping/whatever. I am faster than him, and I have the will to use my gun for a killing shot.

Fight starts, he goes to attack me, I shoot him.

Originally posted by darthgoober
See now I'm obligated to disagree cause you used Cap as an example lol. Cap hits that level too frequently IMO. Don't get me wrong because I do consider to be extremely high end for him, but not infrequent enough to toss it out completely. I mean he does that kind of thing at least 2 or 3 times a year and it's not like he's at the top of the list when it comes to number of appearances.

Lol well replace with any other example you wish, where there is a discrepancy between showings. I used that because Albert already used a DC (so wanted a Marvel version) and that was the first that came to mind.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Do you think speed gives her the majority though?

Speed, PLUS the haxx weaponry she has (which is boosted by the bloodlust stip).

Her lasso and sword are one shot weapons IF she can land them. I believe she has the skill to use them, AND the speed to land the hits.

Both sides are bloodlusted, true. But if I face Mike Tyson, and we're both bloodlusted....but I have a gun (which is faster than him)....doesn't matter if he's stronger, or more versatile, or more skilled at cooking/fighting/rapping/whatever. I am faster than him, and I have the will/skill to use my gun for a killing shot.

Fight starts, he goes to attack me, I shoot him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol well replace with any other example you wish, where there is a discrepancy between showings. I used that because Albert already used a DC (so wanted a Marvel version) and tha
Yeah see, virtually anyone else on the lower end of the spectrum I totally support the point, just not Cap lol. Though I'd take at least some issue with outright dismissing such a thing from Batman too.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah see, virtually anyone else on the lower end of the spectrum I totally support the point, just not Cap lol. Though I'd take at least some issue with outright dismissing such a thing from Batman too.

Cool, ok, use Black Panther lol. Suggest whoever you want.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


But what feats of speed does BM have? I have been asking this.

Because he fights speedy characters and THEY don't outspeed him? But OTHER characters have ALSO fought these same speedy characters and weren't outsped.

King Hyperion? Depowered Juggernaut.

Sentry? Hercules (and depowered Rulk, who wasn't Loebforce).

Namor? Captain America.

Now, you will argue that these were all low showings for King Hype, Sentry, and Namor.

I agree 3000. But why are those fights low showings for the three, and yet, when they fight BM and HE isn't outsped, are those BM fights not low showings for the three?

I'm not trying to throw low showings at BM. I am asking why are his fights with King Hype et al not seen as low showings for those characters. We assume that they are all fighting at their peak efficiencies when facing Adam, because..?

And again, I ALSO have speedy characters vs WW. But with THEM, they specifically mention her speed. How she's 'too fast'.

We also have 'objective' showings. Omega Beams don't have slow or fast gears, and in the n52, in their first showing, they were fast enough to nearly hit Flash, who was running out of breath. Yet, WW was fast enough to react to them, block them, then cut their source out.

Because in his Official Marvel bio, it specifically states that he has super speed, just like it states that he he has super strength, extremely intelligent, super durable, and has very powerful antimatter powers. Do we take heed to all the rest and dismiss the speed part? Gladiator has shown speed against Thor.

Originally posted by Stoic
Because in his Official Marvel bio, it specifically states that he has super speed, just like it states that he he has super strength, extremely intelligent, super durable, and has very powerful antimatter powers. Do we take heed to all the rest and dismiss the speed part? Gladiator has shown speed against Thor.

.....you know what we feel about handbooks and bio.

And again...I am NOT disputing he has superspeed. I am doubting he has the level of speed needed.

Luke Cage has super strength. Is it on Hulk's level? Course not. But his bio says he has super strength, right?

Edit: after all, Supergirl has superspeed too. WW was even faster than her. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by carver9
Hyperion was on his knees struggling to get words out. Yes, it damaged him. Get out of here.
At best it hurt him momentarily. But he was fine afterwards with no signs of damage. Making Hyperion go arrrgh with zero lasting damage (or any visible) isn't really a great feat when it comes to high heralds. That showing doesn't convince me that he can damage Diana's bracelets (she will block) or even ko her with a single blast.

Originally posted by Stoic
Because in his Official Marvel bio, it specifically states that he has super speed, just like it states that he he has super strength, extremely intelligent, super durable, and has very powerful antimatter powers. Do we take heed to all the rest and dismiss the speed part? Gladiator has shown speed against Thor. There are so many different levels of super speed that it ain't funny.
Everyone agrees that BM has some level of superspeed. But it's not on the level of WW.

Originally posted by h1a8
Get out of here.
At best it hurt him momentarily. But he was fine afterwards with no signs of damage. Making Hyperion go arrrgh with zero lasting damage (or any visible) isn't really a great feat when it comes to high heralds. That showing doesn't convince me that he can damage Diana's bracelets (she will block) or even ko her with a single blast.

I dont think you're grasping the big point here. The...blast...did...not...touch...him. He fell to his knees in pain from a blast that didnt even connect with his skin. Do you get it now? A direct hit would've did far more damage.

So the argument is that BM's attacks will deal more damage than the Omega Beams? Ok.

What are you talking about?

Well.....Diana can block it. She's been in close proximity to OBs before without it hurting her...so being in close proximity to BM shouldn't hurt her, unless we are saying it does more damage.

Whatever you're arguing DS, Wonder Woman would be in for the fight of her life. You preaching stomp doesn't take away from Adams abilities and obvious extreme power.

At full capacities, WW is in for the fight of her life against Darkseid and banned members of the forum.

Put it this way. I bet Supergirl has better speed feats than BM.

And WW, without being bloodlusted, and trying to talk her down, handled her easily and was too fast for her.

Hulk has better strength fears than Darkseid. So Hulk is stronger.

Absolutely, Hulk has better strength fears than Darkseid, Hulk fears strength.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Hulk has better strength fears than Darkseid. So Hulk is stronger.

When Hulk drags the multiverse down with him just by falling down, let me know

But he's not in this thread, and I refuse to be drawn on this.

The Omega Beams have better speed feats than Blue Marvel. WW was faster.

Supergirl has better speed feats than Blue Marvel. WW was faster.

WW has a one shot weapon in her sword, and in her lasso. She has the skill to use them.

BOTH sides are bloodlust, but BM isn't able to do anything about it before WW goes for his head (like she did with Darkseid).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When Hulk drags the multiverse down with him just by falling down, let me know

But he's not in this thread, and I refuse to be drawn on this.

The Omega Beams have better speed feats than Blue Marvel. WW was faster.

Supergirl has better speed feats than Blue Marvel. WW was faster.

WW has a one shot weapon in her sword, and in her lasso. She has the skill to use them.

BOTH sides are bloodlust, but BM isn't able to do anything about it before WW goes for his head (like she did with Darkseid).

That dragging crap has nothing to do with strength. Hulk has superior strength fears than Darkseid. Hulk is stronger.

This would end up being an episode of blacked

My auto-correct keeps changing "feats" to "fears".

Oh and Abhi was joking got it

Originally posted by TheHulkster
That dragging crap has nothing to do with strength. Hulk has superior strength fears than Darkseid. Hulk is stronger.

And Batman benches more than the Living Tribunal totally agree.

Unless you have bench pressing feats of the LT?

Originally posted by h1a8
There are so many different levels of super speed that it ain't funny.
Everyone agrees that BM has some level of superspeed. But it's not on the level of WW.

He was able to go punch for punch with guys that can go punch for punch with Gladiator, so your entire claim is baseless.

Originally posted by Stoic
He was able to go punch for punch with guys that can go punch for punch with Gladiator, so your entire claim is baseless.

But where does it end? You still haven't answered my question.

He goes punch for punch with guys who go punch for punch with Captain America. He isn't outsped by guys who don't outspeed a depowered Juggernaut. Why do you assume King Hype was using his full powers, when they didn't use their full powers in other fights?

Simple question.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And Batman benches more than the Living Tribunal totally agree.

Unless you have bench pressing feats of the LT?

I would expect you to agree. It's your logic.

Ah, we're at that stage where you have nothing. Cool.

Who is more skilled? Hmm.

The fact that depowered Juggy wasn't too slow to hit Hype. Otherwise, we are now saying that Blue Marvel = King Hype = depowered Juggy in speed. And let's not go down the rabbit hole of who a depowered Juggy is in speed terms.

Zarda isn't WW.

Now we're not even using feats, just confidence? Lol.

My point still remains. WW has gear and speed to stomp BM here. We don't even need to bring skill into it, but it can also play a part.