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bump

world forger stomps.

dont bump this again. its a cut and dry win tbh

LT

Don't have much confidence in current LT.

as far as we know it takes either a more powerful multiverse level being to beat world forger, or superman wearing his full plot armor.

LT is neither.

Superman one punching WF is the worst that has ever happened in comic and to comics.

Durability feats for LT?

lol durability feats for wf besides being ko'd by superman and killed by barbatos?

Lmao i get that joke good one Leo

I asked first. 😌

This forum have gone completely crazy.

heh tbf, i don't think either has much to offer in terms of actual durability feats. what are wf's offensive feats--aside from slamming a weak superman into a planet....?

He doesnt need fts. Hes multiversal powerful.

I went full carv.

I AM actually interested in their battle feats.

All WF has is his attack on Superman, and the way he shut MMH down effortlessly. And was able to BFR them to Apokolips.

LT has been around since like the 60s, in the other LT vs Spectre thread he didn't seem to have any feats?

Isn't the World Forger supposed to be to Mxyzptlk what Mxyzptlk is to the inhabitants of the multiverse?

https://i.imgur.com/D2d4z1Bm.jpg

Iirc, LT withstood the IG attack of magus that erased the other abstracts, before casually reversing the danger and bringing them back

Originally posted by Genii96
Iirc, LT withstood the IG attack of magus that erased the other abstracts, before casually reversing the danger and bringing them back
Didn't happen like that.

Originally posted by Astner
Isn't the World Forger supposed to be to Mxyzptlk what Mxyzptlk is to the inhabitants of the multiverse?

https://i.imgur.com/D2d4z1Bm.jpg
I love this artwork.

Originally posted by Genii96

Iirc, LT withstood the IG attack of magus that erased the other abstracts,

before casually reversing the danger and bringing them back
It was actually God-Warlock's attack: The LT just sat there calmly.

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/41423956_W1.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/41423957_W2.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
It was actually God-Warlock's attack: The LT just sat there calmly.

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/41423956_W1.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/41423957_W2.jpg


Oh yeah, warlock, thanks

WF

LT easily.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol durability feats for wf besides being ko'd by superman and killed by barbatos?


WF still being conscious is a better durability feat then LT Warlock brush off.




In seriousness, he did casually create a universe eater in Barbatos. Between that and forging every part of the multiverse, including hypertime, this call for "combat feats" is pretty funny. As if his position on the cosmic food chain is in doubt, relative to someone like, say, Galactus or Eternity.

Tie or LT

Originally posted by leonidas
lol durability feats for wf besides being ko'd by superman and killed by barbatos?

a punch that destroyed the entire multiverse, only knocked world forger down. that's better than any durability feats LT ever had

World Forger for sure

Going with WF

Originally posted by MrMind
a punch that destroyed the entire multiverse, only knocked world forger down. And did no harm to the planet, or the rest of the Justice League isn't taking down the Living Tribunal. At this point in time World Forger needs more showings.

Fixed.

WF.

World Forger lacks feats.

WF survived a Multiverse destroying punch point blank range.

He got hit, and whatever force that he could not dampen with his face was enough to vaporize the anvil and a more mature multiverse.

He also built 2 multiverses along with hypertime, dark multiverse, along with sphere of goda
He built a dimension just to trap Superman
He created the future justice league
He picked up barbatos like picking up a bat. Barbatos is a full multiversal monster himself
He's hardly fearless, his top feats trumps LT by a large margin

World Forger is the most ftless character on KMC who have moved up in rank for nothing. This is the only character I've seen on KMC who doesnt need showings to justify his tier. Wonder why? LT doesnt have any showings either. Beings like Beyonder should be ranked at the pinnacle of power if beings like WF can do NOTHING but still get ranked as being able to take out Franklin, Galactus and LT. This has become far more than just sad at this point in time.

Originally posted by MrMind
He also built 2 multiverses along with hypertime, dark multiverse, along with sphere of goda
He built a dimension just to trap Superman
He created the future justice league
He picked up barbatos like picking up a bat. Barbatos is a full multiversal monster himself
He's hardly fearless, his top feats trumps LT by a large margin

Scans of him building 2 multiverse and hyper time and the dark multiverse.
Scan of him building the dimension he trapped Superman in.
Scans of him creating the future justice League.
Scans
Scans
Scans

I'm honestly thinking about Battlezoning this. I cant stand battle zones but I honestly feel this is worth it.

Originally posted by MrMind
He also built 2 multiverses along with hypertime, dark multiverse, along with sphere of goda
He built a dimension just to trap Superman
He created the future justice league
He picked up barbatos like picking up a bat. Barbatos is a full multiversal monster himself
He's hardly fearless, his top feats trumps LT by a large margin

None of those feats put him above LT. not even close. at all

any reality warper can trap superman, it's not exactly mission impossible.
Barbatos was universal

LT is above the celestials whos feats dwarfs World Forger

Nothing about Superman punch was multiversal

Carver spent his whole life hating on DC, that's dedication

in effect, it's something like this: just because something can create a multiverse, there's nothing saying it takes the kind of power needed to destroy a multiverse to destroy it. I gave examples. Off the top of my head, steel is made in a crucible and forged on an anvil, neither which are as strong as steel. The entire basis for the multiversal argument relies on the flawed logic that the Forge has to be as strong as a multiverse. It doesn't. There are plenty of examples of materials being used to make a product far stronger than the thing it's created on or in 🤷🏿‍♂️

The expression "I made it with my own two hands" has been around for a long while.. yes it doesn't truly mean they used just their hands as many carpenters have used this to explained that it was only them whom created something, Doesnt mean no tools where used...

It takes Alpheus two hands to do what he did.
The hammer doesnt just work by itself lol..
He powers it, or shall I say The hammer channels his power (Kinda like Mjolnir for thor)

Originally posted by MrMind
Carver spent his whole life hating on DC, that's dedication

I gave Captain Marvel an edge of my favorite character.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=643646&highlight=%22Gladiator+vs+Captain+Marvel%22

Gave Wonder Woman the edge over Jane...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=634191&pagenumber=2

Gave Orion the edge of Hercules. Even said Wonder Woman could beat Hulk with the lasso. Pull a majority. Just because I dont hug DC before I go to bed at night doesnt mean I just wank Marvel.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The expression "I made it with my own two hands" has been around for a long while.. yes it doesn't truly mean they used just their hands as many carpenters have used this to explained that it was only them whom created something, Doesnt mean no tools where used...

It takes Alpheus two hands to do what he did.
The hammer doesnt just work by itself lol..
He powers it, or shall I say The hammer channels his power (Kinda like Mjolnir for thor)

Do you have scans of WF creating a Multiverse? Dont feel like going back and read it.

Originally posted by carver9
Do you have scans of WF creating a Multiverse? Dont feel like going back and read it.

Nope.

I think it's a big possibility WF might be multiversal, but i'll wait to see what he does

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Nope.

I think it's a big possibility WF might be multiversal, but i'll wait to see what he does

Maybe I need to reword my question. Did he create anything outside of the forge? Here is him creating while being inside of the forge...

https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Justice-League-22-spoilers-6.jpg

Here is him retreating to go back inside of the forge...

https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Justice-League-22-spoilers-14.jpg

If the answer is yes to any of the above, he destroys LT imo. If the answer is no then...

Originally posted by carver9
I gave Captain Marvel an edge of my favorite character.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=643646&highlight=%22Gladiator+vs+Captain+Marvel%22

Gave Wonder Woman the edge over Jane...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=634191&pagenumber=2

Gave Orion the edge of Hercules. Even said Wonder Woman could beat Hulk with the lasso. Pull a majority. Just because I dont hug DC before I go to bed at night doesnt mean I just wank Marvel.

So you picked DC twice in 85000 of your posts good for u

Originally posted by carver9
Scans of him building 2 multiverse and hyper time and the dark multiverse.
Scan of him building the dimension he trapped Superman in.
Scans of him creating the future justice League.
Scans
Scans
Scans
Uh what?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
None of those feats put him above LT. not even close. at all

any reality warper can trap superman, it's not exactly mission impossible.
Barbatos was universal

LT is above the celestials whos feats dwarfs World Forger

Nothing about Superman punch was multiversal
Barbatos shook the entire multiverse with just his scream.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cwuy8izHMXA/WoTn87uD4nI/AAAAAAAAN7w/s9zQusC7IZEgZVk6f3HuWJDYvaJoliYVACHMYCw/s1600/RCO015_w.jpg

Did Barbatos become stronger than Worldforger?
Barbatos killed his master.

It can be argued that Forger was weakened in third dimension hence could be killed by Barbatos.

Originally posted by CatL18
Did Barbatos become stronger than Worldforger?
Barbatos killed his master.

This is one of the reasons I asked the questions above. Hes creating things while being in the Forge. Has he done anything outside of the Forge? Can anyone answer this please.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It can be argued that Forger was weakened in third dimension hence could be killed by Barbatos.

Where was this said?

Originally posted by carver9
Where was this said?


Justice League 30.

Originally posted by carver9
This is one of the reasons I asked the questions above. Hes creating things while being in the Forge. Has he done anything outside of the Forge? Can anyone answer this please.
Wut?

This is like asking what feats TOAA and the Presence have outside of their creations...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Barbatos shook the entire multiverse with just his scream.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cwuy8izHMXA/WoTn87uD4nI/AAAAAAAAN7w/s9zQusC7IZEgZVk6f3HuWJDYvaJoliYVACHMYCw/s1600/RCO015_w.jpg

That doesn't come close to showing he's multiversal.

Show him DESTROYING a multiverse then we'll consider barbatos multiversal

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
That doesn't come close to showing he's multiversal.

Show him DESTROYING a multiverse then we'll consider barbatos multiversal
By that logic, let's see what LT has done to consider it multiversal.

Originally posted by carver9
This is one of the reasons I asked the questions above. Hes creating things while being in the Forge. Has he done anything outside of the Forge? Can anyone answer this please. facepalm

Originally posted by abhilegend
By that logic, let's see what LT has done to consider it multiversal.

no by NO logic, Barbatos has done nothing multiversal ever. period. and YOU know this

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
no by NO logic, Barbatos has done nothing multiversal ever. period. and YOU know this
Except shaking the multiverse you mean.

shaking isn't the same as destroying.


imagine thinking shaking means you can destroy a multiverse on a whim. getting desperate i see huh abhi

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
shaking isn't the same as destroying.


imagine thinking shaking means you can destroy a multiverse on a whim. getting desperate i see huh abhi

You said Barbatos has done NOTHING multiversal, ever, period.

But he HAS. He's shaken the multiverse with a scream. That's hardly nothing.....

Multiversal as I mean in creating or destroying a multiverse. That's implication of multiversail power

Shaking the universe doesn't require Universal level strength

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
shaking isn't the same as destroying.


imagine thinking shaking means you can destroy a multiverse on a whim. getting desperate i see huh abhi
Where did you said destroying multiverse is the only thing classified as multiversal? By that account, LT is not multiversal either, he hasn't even shaken the multiverse.

to be multiversal you'd need to destroy one or create one.

LT was stated and shown to be above the cosmic entities including Eternity

Alot of heroes has "shook" reality. doesn't automatically make them universe busters

Originally posted by abhilegend
Where did you said destroying multiverse is the only thing classified as multiversal? By that account, LT is not multiversal either, he hasn't even shaken the multiverse.



No one else says this, just him.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
to be multiversal you'd need to destroy one or create one.

LT was stated and shown to be above the cosmic entities including Eternity

Alot of heroes has "shook" reality. doesn't automatically make them universe busters


By your own logic, WF is above Mxy, who he's simply using as demolition to clear out the old structure, before he puts in the new.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
to be multiversal you'd need to destroy one or create one. That's not true at all.

Barbatos *was* made to eat universes.

How many universes has LT made or destroyed?

Originally posted by Galan007
That's not true at all.

It's true on every other forums, and in general i'm not sure why this is new to you guys.

Multiversal creation or destruction are not the *only* feats that make a character multiversal. That's ridiculous.

Originally posted by Galan007
Multiversal creation or destruction are not the *only* feats that make a character multiversal. That's ridiculous.

ok quantify shaking the multiverse.

it takes a galaxy worth of energy to shake the universe

Originally posted by cdtm
How many universes has LT made or destroyed?

living tribunal transcends all this creations, he judges all.
He transcends the overspace which is beyond and above eternity, are you serious?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
living tribunal transcends all this creations, he judges all.
He transcends the overspace which is beyond and above eternity, are you serious? Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
to be multiversal you'd need to destroy one or create one.

Hahahahah

I can shake a car.

LT job ISN'T to destroy the multiverse though, he governs it

Whatever your trying to do isn't debunking anything I said

Originally posted by carver9
I can shake a car. Physical analogies are irrelevant here, tbh.

Can you shake the sky by yelling?

exactly

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
living tribunal transcends all this creations, he judges all.
He transcends the overspace which is beyond and above eternity, are you serious? iow, none?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
iow, none?
Feat-wise, LT is quite weak. He lost to the Protege, lost to the mecha Beyonders, lost to HOTI Thanos, lost to Lord Chaos & Master Order, the list goes on. He also failed to defeat Korvak, and was blinded by Magus using a couple of Cosmic Cubes. And so on. This guy's history is a history of failure.

He did manage to ALMOST trap Dr. Strange once. I guess that counts for something?

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-af3d3f3578b14c41eb211327216c576a-c

Originally posted by Magnon
Feat-wise, LT is quite weak. He lost to the Protege, lost to the mecha Beyonders, lost to HOTI Thanos, lost to Lord Chaos & Master Order, the list goes on. He also failed to defeat Korvak, and was blinded by Magus using a couple of Cosmic Cubes. And so on. This guy's history is a history of failure.

He did manage to ALMOST trap Dr. Strange once. I guess that counts for something?

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-af3d3f3578b14c41eb211327216c576a-c
And like swag, he really only governs magical balance...

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil

Alot of heroes has "shook" reality.

doesn't automatically make them universe busters
Like Odin vs Seth shaking the multiverse.

So, under these guidelines ... they're "multiversal" ... ... and, lol.

Originally posted by Magnon

Feat-wise, LT is quite weak.

1) He lost to the Protege,

2) lost to the mecha Beyonders,

3) lost to HOTI Thanos,

4) lost to Lord Chaos & Master Order,

5) the list goes on.

6) He also failed to defeat Korvak,

7) and was blinded by Magus using a couple of Cosmic Cubes.

8) He did manage to ALMOST trap Dr. Strange once.
1) Protege copied LT's power amongst others.

2) "mecha?" ... Anyway, the BeyonderS (post 85' Beyonder retcon)
have always secretly been the most powerful in Marvel.

3) HOTI was the power of TOAA.

4) Due to a stipulated circumstantial plot CIS in Ewing's new cosmology.

5) What else ya got on this "list?"

6) Scans of LT battling Korvac?
Scans of Korvac even ever knowing the LT was ever there?
Scans of the LT attacking Korvac with his own power?

7) LT was not "blinded" ... that's just false. Magus hid himself from LT's senses, nothing more.

8) ... Dr Strange conceded the LT could've erased him with a thought.
Luckily for Strange, the LT was only testing Strange.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I'll return with actual LT feats later.

The point is, LT's combat feats are just as bad -- or worse -- than WF's. Almost always when LT engages in a fight he loses. He's not powerful enough to guard his abilities against duplication (unlike Scathan), he's not strong enough to defeat a couple of mecha Beyonders (unlike Starbrand and Ex Nihilo & Abyss), he's not omniscient enough to pierce through the veil cast by a couple of Cosmic Cubes, etc.

Losing a fight, even if the opponent is very powerful, isn't much of a feat. Hank Pym is not universal+ even though he lost a fist fight against Eternity. Wolverine is not universal+ even though he lost a brawl against IG Thanos.

Originally posted by Magnon

The point is, LT's combat feats are just as bad -- or worse -- than WF's.
... iyo.
Originally posted by Magnon

Almost always when LT engages in a fight he loses.
False.
Originally posted by Magnon

He's not powerful enough to guard his abilities against duplication (unlike Scathan)
Interesting.

How powerful is Scathan?
Originally posted by Magnon

he's not strong enough to defeat a couple of mecha Beyonders

(unlike Starbrand and Ex Nihilo & Abyss)
Ex Nihilo/Abyss/Gardners didn't "defeat" anyone.
They warped a non-reactive (didn't defend itself or attack anyone) Beyonder into a tree.

In a surprise attack: Starbrand (using its full power suicide style)
dispersed the vulnerable shell of one Beyonder
beyond the point where it could re-incorporate itself with said shell. (m-body)

Starbrand never confronted any Beyonder directly.

---------------------------------------------------------

Obvious PIS/CIS in any case, unless you're actually trying to make the allusion,
that either Starbrand or Ex Nihilo/Abyss/Gardners or even together, are > LT.

The LT that was portrayed as the totality of infinite universeS of Marvel rolled into one.
Originally posted by Magnon

he's not omniscient enough to pierce through the veil cast by a couple of Cosmic Cubes, etc.
Scans of the LT attempting to pierce through the "veil?"

The CCUs actively hid Magus from the spectrum of perception.
This has nothing to do with LT's omniscience.
Originally posted by Magnon

Losing a fight, even if the opponent is very powerful, isn't much of a feat. Hank Pym is not universal+ even though he lost a fist fight against Eternity. Wolverine is not universal+ even though he lost a brawl against IG Thanos.
...

Originally posted by Galan007
Physical analogies are irrelevant here, tbh.

Can you shake the sky by yelling?
Technically... yes. Sounds are vibrations in the air after all

The entire sky?

Living Tribunal wins against WF and One Punch Superman simuntaneously.

LT loses to beings that would be unfazed by sun Amped Superman best punch

Where did they do any such thing?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Like Odin vs Seth shaking the multiverse.

So, under these guidelines ... they're "multiversal" ... ... and, lol.

Carver! Pr still awaits you!!

I dont debate with mods.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Where did they do any such thing?

most of the jl members survived the impact

Originally posted by carver9
I dont debate with mods.

Cool.

So if I ask it, you'd answer, right?

As far as collateral damage is concerned, it's kinda like how in dragon ball goku has his vaunted feat of how his and beerus's punches are going to destroy the universe, despite the fact that zero collateral damage occured on earth? Goku seems to get full credit for that feat despite the collateral damage being nill. In fact, if we are going to go by collateral damage actually caused the dragon ball characters are not anywhere close to the power they get scaled at. I mean hell, bulma, corrin, normal humans, etc. don't get killed as a result of collateral damage all the time. So, if you use the collateral damage route for Supes, you need to use it for all of dragon ball as well. Otherwise, you're a hypocrit. So, pick one. Does collateral damage have to 100% scale to the implied damage or potential damage or are we allowed a bit of suspension of disbelief for the sake of the plot? Whatever you choose, be prepared to apply it equally to DC, Marvel, Dragonball, etc. and don't just pick and choose where it gets used. Thanks.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
most of the jl members survived the impact
So? They weren't the target of the punch.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
most of the jl members survived the impact

It literally doesn't matter.

Collateral damage only ever matters when writers want it to, and is an absolutely appalling angle to base an argument on.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It literally doesn't matter.

Collateral damage only ever matters when writers want it to, and is an absolutely appalling angle to base an argument on.

They ran out new arguments to spin and now appear to be reusing some of the earliest ones.

Yet another confirmation that WF can destroy a universe...
Ouch
https://www.superherohype.com/comics/464799-exclusive-preview-justice-league-31?slideshow=12049#/slide/5

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Yet another confirmation that WF can destroy a universe...
Ouch
https://www.superherohype.com/comics/464799-exclusive-preview-justice-league-31?slideshow=12049#/slide/5

nobody ever claimed he wasn't universal

He is greatly weakened lol

Is that a preview? If it, I'ma wait til the full comic come out to give my full input y'know lol? dont wanna jump to conclusions imo

I think he's in the same league as the Monitor/Anti-Monitor at their bests if i remember correctly

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Is that a preview? If it, I'ma wait til the full comic come out to give my full input y'know lol? dont wanna jump to conclusions imo

I think he's in the same league as the Monitor/Anti-Monitor at their bests if i remember correctly

It's direct from the comic lol. Not like the one below all mentioned in the comments and we only saw the gatekeeper within the pages.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
nobody ever claimed he wasn't universal the word they used is reality not universe. Big difference.

What?

"reality" is USED synonymously with universe in comics MOST of the time, How is that a "big difference"

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
What?

"reality" is USED synonymously with universe in comics MOST of the time, How is that a "big difference"

you can't have multiple realities I the universe because each reality may have their own unique laws of physics but a reality can have multiple universes. That's the difference.

That's your head canon. whenever a comic mentions "reality" it's usually referring to an universe

Like honestly STOP trolling. the comic specifically mentions "A universe"

A is singular

https://i.postimg.cc/JDTPWT9P/Screenshot-509.png

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
nobody ever claimed he wasn't universal

Seems like something is on the ground. What is that he is clashing his hammer on top of?

Originally posted by carver9
Seems like something is on the ground. What is that he is clashing his hammer on top of?

Crisis anvil. I assume the same one he formed under his own power in Justice League #25

Originally posted by carver9
Seems like something is on the ground. What is that he is clashing his hammer on top of? so you're saying anyone can strike the anvil and create the universe?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
That's your head canon. whenever a comic mentions "reality" it's usually referring to an universe what's up with the insult? If you want to counter it, you are more than welcome to and I'm willing to change my mind if you can prove that a universe means the same thing as reality in comics.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Crisis anvil. I assume the same one he formed under his own power in Justice League #25

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/42664745/SmartSelect_20190903-230021_Chrome.jpg.html

Originally posted by carver9
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/42664745/SmartSelect_20190903-230021_Chrome.jpg.html



He was going to use that one to create a multiverse. Here just a universe but likely still an anvil he formed and to help channel its power

Originally posted by -K-M-


He was going to use that one to create a multiverse. Here just a universe but likely still an anvil he formed and to help channel its power

Did you read it though? Read the part about Mxy.

Originally posted by Diesldude
so you're saying anyone can strike the anvil and create the universe? wait the anvil was destroyed in the 6th dimension so I'm not sure what he's striking. Have to wait for the comic to come out.

@KM...

Appears a special event had to take place for that to happen though. As if he needed Mxy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.

So if I ask it, you'd answer, right?

Carver, hello!

What was his question?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Hey; I realise it's not for everyone, but I'll take the occasional reboot over each X-Man having two to three distinct origins that clash with each other.



But they're different, somehow?

Originally posted by carver9
@KM...

Appears a special event had to take place for that to happen though. As if he needed Mxy.

To replace the multiverse with his old one with the new. Yes

Carver, hello!

Originally posted by carver9
@KM...

Appears a special event had to take place for that to happen though. As if he needed Mxy. do you have any proof of this?

bumpo

Forger oneshots

WF

that's what I'm wondering as well

Him against the IG

Wasn't a direct fight and Forger literally creates IG level of artifacts.