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In the 'Darkseid vs Galactus' John Byrne made Orion look like a joke in his battle against SS, very much Marvel bias, between two high powered heralds I have no problem with SS coming out on top, but he should have had to work much harder for the victory, I felt that DC should have been embarrassed by that, so.............

Let's try this again, I using the Orion who effortlessly tossed aside the JLA and tore out Darksied's heart against current SS, who wins and why?

Both companies agreed that what happened in that fight would have been the likely outcome . Kind of like the battles that took place during the Justice League vs the Avengers crossover. Many people thought that Galactus should have done better against Krona, which was just as much of a one sided beat down as the one that the Surfer gave Orion.

Originally posted by Stoic
Both companies agreed that what happened in that fight would have been the likely outcome . Kind of like the battles that took place during the Justice League vs the Avengers crossover. Many people thought that Galactus should have done better against Krona, which was just as much of a one sided beat down as the one that the Surfer gave Orion. Not buying it this "likely outcome", Orion has battled far more powerful opponents than SS and put up a much better fight than that.

Originally posted by lawest9
Not buying it this "likely outcome", Orion has battled far more powerful opponents than SS and put up a much better fight than that.

This happens again with Orion admitting again that the surfer is a foe like none he has ever faced before...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564683/SmartSelect_20190712-092322_Chrome.jpg.html

When Surfer gets serious, he basically kills him in one attack...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564686/SmartSelect_20190712-092221_Chrome.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564689/SmartSelect_20190712-092246_Chrome.jpg.html

Orion beats the utter shit out of him.

mmm

Originally posted by Digi

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. Neither is a random post by a supposed writer on a message board, blogs, tweets, etc. There have been too many of these so called interviews which go against what's shown on panel. Especially when there is no dialogue to refute what's happening on panel. Most writers are clear with the intentions of the plot and story arc.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

It must be fun living as Carver; every day must be full of new experiences for him.

lol wait people accept Superman beating Thor but not Orion vs Surfer?
you SERIOUS?

Orion beats Darkseid due to the prophecy thingy. Surfer's also gotten more powerful during the years

Orion as well

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lol wait people accept Superman beating Thor but not Orion vs Surfer?
you SERIOUS?

Orion beats Darkseid due to the prophecy thingy. Surfer's also gotten more powerful during the years

Erm., they don't, lol.

Is this another one of your hilarious misunderstandings?

as much as people dislike the confrontation, it happened. both companies sees Surfer as the superior, it's canon too

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
as much as people dislike the confrontation, it happened. both companies sees Surfer as the superior, it's canon too ok, but STILL should have been a closer fight, guess the Astro Force is no match for the Power Cosmic.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lol wait people accept Superman beating Thor but not Orion vs Surfer?
you SERIOUS?

Orion beats Darkseid due to the prophecy thingy. Surfer's also gotten more powerful during the years Orion still will have to have the power to carry out the prophecy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
mmm

I understand thats the rules and all but can you explain why lol...?



Both companies acknowledged JLA/Avengers really happened for their characters.
DC did it in a few books...like JLA #102 (iirc) and JLA:Trinity...and Marvel did it in their 616 entries for Grandmaster, Terminus, Avengers, Monica Rambeau, and Galactus.

Dunno if I have the JLA #102 scan...but I have others...
Remember this scene from JLA/Avengers....?

https://i.postimg.cc/JyktPw0m/sups.jpg

It appeared again in a DC book...last panel, lower right.

https://i.postimg.cc/zHXzm4zy/low.jpg

Also read this scan...

https://i.postimg.cc/kVcLrGBy/redk.jpg

..and this one.

https://i.postimg.cc/87d0WcBV/toss.jpg


There was also a recent easter egg from JLA/Avengers in new JL issue that confirms the events happened still

Lol are you really that arrogant to believe that you're imparting some mystical knowledge that none of us have ever seen before time and time again on the forums?

It's explained at length why we don't use crossovers.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I understand thats the rules and all but can you explain why lol...?



Both companies acknowledged JLA/Avengers really happened for their characters.
DC did it in a few books...like JLA #102 (iirc) and JLA:Trinity...and Marvel did it in their 616 entries for Grandmaster, Terminus, Avengers, Monica Rambeau, and Galactus.

Dunno if I have the JLA #102 scan...but I have others...
Remember this scene from JLA/Avengers....?

https://i.postimg.cc/JyktPw0m/sups.jpg

It appeared again in a DC book...last panel, lower right.

https://i.postimg.cc/zHXzm4zy/low.jpg

Also read this scan...

https://i.postimg.cc/kVcLrGBy/redk.jpg

..and this one.

https://i.postimg.cc/87d0WcBV/toss.jpg


There was also a recent easter egg from JLA/Avengers in new JL issue that confirms the events happened still

Are you asking about JLA/Avengers, or just crossovers in general?

If it's the former, then yes, we've always known that JLA/Avengers is a special case, but the benefits of making it usable don't outweigh the drawbacks. It's one arc, with a handful of showings for each character if at all. Making it canon should make no difference, but alas, this is KMC.

Originally posted by carver9
This happens again with Orion admitting again that the surfer is a foe like none he has ever faced before...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564683/SmartSelect_20190712-092322_Chrome.jpg.html

When Surfer gets serious, he basically kills him in one attack...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564686/SmartSelect_20190712-092221_Chrome.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564689/SmartSelect_20190712-092246_Chrome.jpg.html

You do know Orion has previously took on Darkseid right?

Are you saying Silver Surfer is more powerful than Darkseid then?

Originally posted by SquallX
You do know Orion has previously took on Darkseid right?

Are you saying Silver Surfer is more powerful than Darkseid then?

bruh tbh your ignorance disturbs me.

JUST BECAUSE Orion's DESTINED to beat Darkseid does not mean he can beat Darkseid level characters. it's the same case with Drax and Thanos.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Are you asking about JLA/Avengers, or just crossovers in general?

If it's the former, then yes, we've always known that JLA/Avengers is a special case, but the benefits of making it usable don't outweigh the drawbacks. It's one arc, with a handful of showings for each character if at all. Making it canon should make no difference, but alas, this is KMC.

understandable

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lol wait people accept Superman beating Thor but not Orion vs Surfer?



Oh you thought there were no double standards here lol

Regardless, Dc/Marvel crossovers are not used here (and with good reason).

Originally posted by SquallX
You do know Orion has previously took on Darkseid right?

Are you saying Silver Surfer is more powerful than Darkseid then?

I didnt say anything. Read what ORION is saying.

Orion beats the dogshit out of the eunuch.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh you thought there were no double standards here lol

Regardless, Dc/Marvel crossovers are not used here (and with good reason).
Thor probably got the best deal he could against Superman, Busiek is fair like that. If it was say Jurgens or Loeb, Thor wouldn't even get lip service he received in JLA/Avengers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion beats the dogshit out of the eunuch.

dc doesn't agree with you

Originally posted by carver9
I didnt say anything. Read what ORION is saying.
You know Hunger is totally non canon, right? It shows DC and Marvel were part of one universe even and even the writer said Orion would beat Surfer if everyone goes all out.

http://m.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18726&PN=0&TPN=4

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
dc doesn't agree with you
The writer doesn't agrees with you either.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
This is just one example btw

There's another showing of a New God creating And What looks to be positioning Galaxies.
Remember because this is New Genesis And the 4th world, the Universe and Galaxy being created and shown here is definitely what we'd consider Normal size to us, because There they dwarf the universe in size.

https://i.postimg.cc/w700jJrb/pbloj.jpg

Alberto doesn't agree with Alberto.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The writer doesn't agrees with you either.

lol seriously

Orion doesn't have the power scope to rock with silver surfer.

Spacebattles doesn't agrees with spacebattles.

FTFY

if we're discussing full power, i don't see how Orion can contend against Surfer variety of hax

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lol seriously

Orion doesn't have the power scope to rock with silver surfer.
Oh, is that so? Name a better showing.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Jack-Kirby-s-Fourth-World-1997/Issue-5?id=52198

Oblivion bomb was destroying entire universe, astro force contained and nullified it.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
if we're discussing full power, i don't see how Orion can contend against Surfer variety of hax
Motherbox drains Surfer. End.

lol read the next issue, it shows that all he did was slow down the process. he didn't actually "contain" it

Norrin could just do this do the Dog of War's flying chariot.

https://i.imgur.com/q62YTMs.jpg

He could do this to any if his gadgets.

https://i.postimg.cc/14PVQhSX/etns.jpg

Astro force don't mean nothing to Norrin. Since Eternals are essentially New gods of Marvel and Ikkrus is up there in power I would even more than Orion. Norrin could asborb anything he would throw at him.

https://i.postimg.cc/0rcj1zZX/gfu.jpg

Orion has received a massive push lately. He wins a small majority.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
New Gods are the most powerful beings in the multiverse. He's going up against dozens of multiversal beings

Canon fact.

Alot of people forget Orion's wristbands have circuitry in them. That means Surfer can hax them.

Orion's harness has numerous modules that can be disconnected, reattached, reconfigured, etc. There's a module that is a Magnetism Based Tractor Beam (Surfer can hax that). There's a module that can convert and/or absorb certain frequencies of energy (Surfer can hax that). There's a module that can amp Orion's strength as long as he's in direct contact w/ the harness (this can be beaten by knocking him out of the harness. Supes has done it before.


Also, the Great Darkness Saga revealed that the harness is vulnerable to Density/Molecular Manip. Thus, Surfer can hax it.

People forget that you're an idi- oh, no they don't.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Orion has received a massive push lately. He wins a small majority.

lol true, but so has Surfer

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
People forget that you're an idi- oh, no they don't.

save the feels for somebody that cares.


look at the power sets. Orion is basically superman without flight meanwhile silver surfer is a stable version of new 52 Captain atom for the most part. We COULD include Orion using his mother box but realistically how often do we see him use it beyond boom tubes and healing?

Surfer has controlled the energies of the crunch. I doubt the Astro Force will do anything here if Surfer doesnt want it too.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer has controlled the energies of the crunch. I doubt the Astro Force will do anything here if Surfer doesnt want it too.

a weakened surfer at that lol which is pretty insane

Surfer never controlled the crunch energies. Why lie it makes you look worse.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You know Hunger is totally non canon, right? It shows DC and Marvel were part of one universe even and even the writer said Orion would beat Surfer if everyone goes all out.

http://m.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18726&PN=0&TPN=4

Why is it not the case that Galactus travels to the New God's realm from the MU?

"Dare I channel the energies of the crunch, BEND THE VERY ESSENCE OF THE CREATION EVENT TO MY WILL".

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186194/4115080-annihilation-heraldsofgalactus2-036.jpg

Like I said before, he CONTROLLED the energy from the crunch.

Originally posted by carver9
"Dare I channel the energies of the crunch, BEND THE VERY ESSENCE OF THE CREATION EVENT TO MY WILL".

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186194/4115080-annihilation-heraldsofgalactus2-036.jpg

Like I said before, he CONTROLLED the energy from the crunch.
No carver, that's not the same. Channeling the energy is impressive as Hell, but it's not the same as controlling it. If he were controlling he'd have done something like called in bolts of energy the way Thor calls down lightning from the sky and thereby avoided almost dying from it. Never overstate an already impressive feat because in the end it'll come off as less impressive.

Originally posted by carver9
"Dare I channel the energies of the crunch, BEND THE VERY ESSENCE OF THE CREATION EVENT TO MY WILL".

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186194/4115080-annihilation-heraldsofgalactus2-036.jpg

Like I said before, he CONTROLLED the energy from the crunch. learn to read and actually understand what stuff means ffs

Originally posted by carver9
This happens again with Orion admitting again that the surfer is a foe like none he has ever faced before...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564683/SmartSelect_20190712-092322_Chrome.jpg.html

When Surfer gets serious, he basically kills him in one attack...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564686/SmartSelect_20190712-092221_Chrome.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/41564689/SmartSelect_20190712-092246_Chrome.jpg.html

Unusable

Orion's prophecy fulfillment is to defeat Darkseid are you THAT ignorant?
seriously read up on new gods. this is ridiculous

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Norrin could just do this do the Dog of War's flying chariot.

https://i.imgur.com/q62YTMs.jpg

He could do this to any if his gadgets.

https://i.postimg.cc/14PVQhSX/etns.jpg

Astro force don't mean nothing to Norrin. Since Eternals are essentially New gods of Marvel and Ikkrus is up there in power I would even more than Orion. Norrin could asborb anything he would throw at him.

https://i.postimg.cc/0rcj1zZX/gfu.jpg Originally posted by abhilegend
Motherbox drains Surfer. End.

Surfer should win.

Orion. Since no one is holding back, he has the power of a Sky Father or better.

Originally posted by Stoic
Orion. Since no one is holding back, he has the power of a Sky Father or better. Has this been proven? If so when and where?

Originally posted by lawest9
Has this been proven? If so when and where?

He draws his power from the Source, like the Hulk does from the Gammaverse. Both near infinite power sources in comic canon. The Surfer can also draw on large quantities of the Power Cosmic. The strongest that the Silver Surfer has ever been hinted on becoming rivaled Galactus in power. He was emotionally compromised though, so I'm not entirely sure that he can normally tap into that amount of PC. I've never seen Orion on the level of Galactus either though. The only comic written into canon that gave me any sense of measurment between Galactus, Darkseid, Orion, and the Silver Surfer happened during the Hunger, which IMO was falsely skewed in terms of power levels. Which is why it shouldn't be ever used.

The Source allows for Orion to become as powerful as Darkseid who has Celestial levels of power. The only fair way that I can see this being a steal for Orion, is if he could take that amount of power from the Source at any given time of his choosing. Or, is it a thing that happens only when he faces off against Darkseid? We have to consider what the Source is before jumping to conclusions.

Originally posted by Stoic
He draws his power from the Source, like the Hulk does from the Gammaverse. Both near infinite power sources in comic canon. The Surfer can also draw on large quantities of the Power Cosmic. The strongest that the Silver Surfer has ever been hinted on becoming rivaled Galactus in power. He was emotionally compromised though, so I'm not entirely sure that he can normally tap into that amount of PC. I've never seen Orion on the level of Galactus either though. The only comic written into canon that gave me any sense of measurment between Galactus, Darkseid, Orion, and the Silver Surfer happened during the Hunger, which IMO was falsely skewed in terms of power levels. Which is why it shouldn't be ever used.

The Source allows for Orion to become as powerful as Darkseid who has Celestial levels of power. The only fair way that I can see this being a steal for Orion, is if he could take that amount of power from the Source at any given time of his choosing. Or, is it a thing that happens only when he faces off against Darkseid? We have to consider what the Source is before jumping to conclusions. Yes.........I still maintain that the Orion/SS fight shouldn't have been so one sided, far less opponents than Orion have given the Surfer a better fight than that.

Originally posted by lawest9
Yes.........I still maintain that the Orion/SS fight shouldn't have been so one sided, far less opponents than Orion have given the Surfer a better fight than that. '
per Byrne's portrayal at the time Orion is 300 years old.. he was a rookie and later got upgrades in skill in JK4W by Byrne in the modern era.

He wasn't anywhere near formidable enough to defeat Darkseid--who is FAR beyond Surfer as he later became by the Simonson run.

Even Darkseid hadn't absorbed multiple Pantheons worth of power as he had b y the modern era.

per Byrne's portrayal those were less powerful, less formidable version of Darkseid and Orion, respectively.

How do you believe a battle between them would have went had big G and SS were to have fought the current versions?

Originally posted by panthergod
'
per Byrne's portrayal at the time Orion is 300 years old.. he was a rookie and later got upgrades in skill in JK4W by Byrne in the modern era.

He wasn't anywhere near formidable enough to defeat Darkseid--who is FAR beyond Surfer as he later became by the Simonson run.

Even Darkseid hadn't absorbed multiple Pantheons worth of power as he had b y the modern era.

per Byrne's portrayal those were less powerful, less formidable version of Darkseid and Orion, respectively.

Where does all of this info come from,?

Bump.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Where does all of this info come from,?

Comics.

Read them.

Surfer traps him in titanium and yes, it will work...

1. https://i.imgur.com/bYBBvBU.jpg and he STRUGGLED to break free.
2. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111188740/4629254-6696647862-45284.jpg

And as shown before, Surfer have used his matter manipulating abilities offensively

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Orion's prophecy fulfillment is to defeat Darkseid are you THAT ignorant?
seriously read up on new gods. this is ridiculous

No genius, Orion destiny is to battle Darkseid, it was never hinted by Kirby that he would won. We just know they will battle each other.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer traps him in titanium and yes, it will work...

1. https://i.imgur.com/bYBBvBU.jpg and he STRUGGLED to break free.
2. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111188740/4629254-6696647862-45284.jpg

And as shown before, Surfer have used his matter manipulating abilities offensively

Ok.

Orion throws a brick at him, after putting him in an armbar.

works every time.

Oh, and Firestorm contained Thor, so he's well beyond Surfer.

Originally posted by SquallX
No genius, Orion destiny is to battle Darkseid, it was never hinted by Kirby that he would won. We just know they will battle each other. orions beaten darkseid at least 3 different times that i know of, with each win being credited to the father/son prophecy

Originally posted by panthergod
Ok.

Orion throws a brick at him, after putting him in an armbar.

works every time.

Oh, and Firestorm contained Thor, so he's well beyond Surfer. LOL!!!!!!!!............Black Panther provided a blueprint.....hahahahahahaha.

Orion.

Originally posted by panthergod
Comics.

Read them.

Give me the specific issues and I will.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Give me the specific issues and I will.

Read Byrne's JK4W and Genesis storyline.

Or don't.

I couldn't care less.

Originally posted by panthergod
Ok.

Orion throws a brick at him, after putting him in an armbar.

works every time.

Oh, and Firestorm contained Thor, so he's well beyond Surfer.

... the brick scene isnt even canon.
... the writer confirmed that Surfer allowed the armbar and Surfer confirmed it in the comic.

Thor isnt in this thread.

Do better next time.

Originally posted by carver9
... the brick scene isnt even canon.
... the writer confirmed that Surfer allowed the armbar and Surfer confirmed it in the comic.

Thor isnt in this thread.

Do better next time. Really?.......did he also allow BP to drain his power cosmic and ko him?

Originally posted by carver9
... the brick scene isnt even canon.

Cool, Motherbox creates some soup for Surfer to Drink, then.



BP>Surfer HTH, period. keep making laughable excuses.




Thor is superior to Surfer. Period.

Firestorm> Surfer in transmutation skill and tactics.

Further, Orion didnt have his Astro Harness on iirc.


Like how post- Byrne upgrade modern Orion does FAR better than Surfer and Thor together against Darkseid?

Originally posted by carver9
... the brick scene isnt even canon.
... the writer confirmed that Surfer allowed the armbar and Surfer confirmed it in the comic.

Thor isnt in this thread.

Do better next time.
I think you're mixing up instances C. The brick thing is canon, it's from his first series. Though it is from the era where he was weakened from being tapped on Earth.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I think you're mixing up instances C. The brick thing is canon, it's from his first series. Though it is from the era where he was weakened from being tapped on Earth.

Figured he was lying.

Originally posted by panthergod
Figured he was lying.
I doubt he was intentionally lying. I recently pointed out that the Surfer/Mexican thing is non-canon, he probably just got confused about who attacked Surfer with the brick.

Originally posted by panthergod
Read Byrne's JK4W and Genesis storyline.

Or don't.

I couldn't care less.

Well, you made the assertion. You should be able to provide specifics.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Well, you made the assertion. You should be able to provide specifics.

These facts are old news to people who read comics or even have been paying attention to the various showings these characters have.

You don't pay attention? Not my problem.

Originally posted by panthergod
These facts are old news to people who read comics or even have been paying attention to the various showings these characters have.

You don't pay attention? Not my problem.

Ok. You made it up. Gotcha.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I doubt he was intentionally lying. I recently pointed out that the Surfer/Mexican thing is non-canon, he probably just got confused about who attacked Surfer with the brick.

Thanks

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Ok. You made it up. Gotcha.

Nope.

They are irrefutable.facts. Orion got an upgrade in skill per Byrne, and Modern Darkseid absorbed multiple pantheons worth of power per Byrne. Period.

I don't give a shit about what you believe or accept.

Even questioning this means you have no place speaking about these characters. Stop lying and trolling.

Originally posted by panthergod
Nope.

They are irrefutable.facts. Orion got an upgrade in skill per Byrne, and Modern Darkseid absorbed multiple pantheons worth of power per Byrne. Period.

I don't give a shit about what you believe or accept.

Even questioning this means you have no place speaking about these characters. Stop lying and trolling.

Please show where you get your specifics on where any of this fits in The Hunger chronology. Where did you get that Orion was a rookie 300 years old in Hunger and show where any of the things you state happen after Hunger and not before.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Please show where you get your specifics on where any of this fits in The Hunger chronology. Where did you get that Orion was a rookie 300 years old in Hunger and show where any of the things you state happen after Hunger and not before.

You've been told where the information is.

Read comics. Youve been told everything you need to know. No, I'm not going to waste my time doing your work for you. You aren't worth the minuscule effort. So far, you can't even comprehend the extremely simple statements I've already made based on your goofy misinterpretations(I never said Orion was 300 years old IN HUNGER, idiot). It's hilarious.

What, you're arguing that The Hunger takes place during the modern era..? THAT is your argument?

That this was Galactus AFTER Surfer betrayed him, and not during the millenia of time Surfer originally served as his Herald..?-- or that this takes place AFTER Kirby's New Gods #1, even though the war between Apokolips and New Genesis hadn't restarted due to the Pact..? You're so obtuse you're literally going to pretend that the entire premise of the story -- that it takes place in the distant past-- doesnt exist so you can ignore factual story point you're too ignorant to read yourself..? J

Just how hilariously desperate are you..?

Originally posted by panthergod
You've been told where the information is.

Read comics. Youve been told everything you need to know. No, I'm not going to waste my time doing your work for you. You aren't worth the minuscule effort. So far, you can't even comprehend the extremely simple statements I've already made based on your goofy misinterpretations(I never said Orion was 300 years old IN HUNGER, idiot). It's hilarious.

What, you're arguing that The Hunger takes place during the modern era..? THAT is your argument?

That this was Galactus AFTER Surfer betrayed him, and not during the millenia of time Surfer originally served as his Herald..?-- or that this takes place AFTER Kirby's New Gods #1, even though the war between Apokolips and New Genesis hadn't restarted due to the Pact..? You're so obtuse you're literally going to pretend that the entire premise of the story -- that it takes place in the distant past-- doesnt exist so you can ignore factual story point you're too ignorant to read yourself..? J

Just how hilariously desperate are you..?

You said "per Byrne's portrayal at the time Orion is 300 years old.. he was a rookie and later got upgrades in skill in JK4W by Byrne in the modern era.". This statement was discussing the events of Hunger. Now what are you claiming to have meant?

Hunger takes place before Galactus first visits Earth. How long before is never specified in anything I've seen. Galactus is stated in the book to have ALREADY combed the universe for countless mellinia at this point. I haven't seen anything stating "distant" past. They could have left for Earth right then.

Surfer get a lot of hate here. Thor does as well. Hulk does as well. Hyperion, the Beyonders, Blue Marvel, Gladiator... there's more but the people above are the most hated right now.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer get a lot of hate here. Thor does as well. Hulk does as well. Hyperion, the Beyonders, Blue Marvel, Gladiator... there's more but the people above are the most hated right now.

we get it, if we don't suck off marvel characters we hate them, shut up carver

Originally posted by MrMind
we get it, if we don't suck off marvel characters we hate them, shut up carver

Is that what you got from my post?

I mean DC characters are just generally more powerful. Like most Leaguers in general would probably beat most of their Avenger counterparts (imho), but I just always felt Surfer was unusually amped for a mainstream Marvel character. He can do anything!!

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
I mean DC characters are just generally more powerful. Like most Leaguers in general would probably beat most of their Avenger counterparts (imho), but I just always felt Surfer was unusually amped for a mainstream Marvel character. He can do anything!!
No, that's green Lantern. Surfer can't do anything he wants.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer get a lot of hate here. Thor does as well. Hulk does as well. Hyperion, the Beyonders, Blue Marvel, Gladiator... there's more but the people above are the most hated right now.

Blu Marvel and Hype are hated?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blu Marvel and Hype are hated?

Blue Marvel is hated more than the others.

How so?

Wrong, GLs are faster than Surfer in flying, they absolutely have done matter manipulation on every level and have phased more often than Surfer has. Also its not just constructs, a GL can do anything if he has enough willpower (Even resurrected dead people and restore universe once it was destroyed).
They don't have superstrength per say but they hit hella hard with their constructs.

Surfer is jack of all trades and master of none. He isn't as powerful as posters think he is, he has hard established limitations and will always job to Thor or Thanos.

I wouldn't call Surfer being Thanos' ***** jobbing.

The eggplant is better than him at everything he does and is even tankier. It just makes sense.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I wouldn't call Surfer being Thanos' ***** jobbing.

The eggplant is better than him at everything he does and is even tankier. It just makes sense.

Agreed. Likewise, I'm wondering where Abhi gets the idea of Surfer always jobbing to Thor. Blood and Thunder is it. Their first fight has surfer dominating, albeit with an amp. That's not jobbing. Their last encounter is a complete stalemate.

And I would like to see proof that GLs are faster.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer get a lot of hate here. Thor does as well. Hulk does as well. Hyperion, the Beyonders, Blue Marvel, Gladiator... there's more but the people above are the most hated right now. Surfer, Thor and Hulk are hated on because on this forum and several others they are massively overrated by their fanboys. The others you listed really aren't hated and we all know who the real most hated character on comic forums really is.

Originally posted by playa1258
Surfer, Thor and Hulk are hated on because on this forum and several others they are massively overrated by their fanboys. The others you listed really aren't hated and we all know who the real most hated character on comic forums really is.

On THIS forum? I doubt that. Hulk cant pull a win on KMC against some of the second hand bricks in DC on this site. Thor gets bashed daily. Surfer, as powerful as he is has been voted against by every high Herald in that bracket. I agree that Hulk and Thor get a lot of love on other sites but I'm talking about KMC; they are hated here.

Who is the real hated character on KMC? You better not be thinking who I think you are talking about.

Overrated: Martian Manhunter
Flash
Silver Surfer
Hulk
Thor
Doctor Doom

Underrated: Superman
Lex Luthor
Hal Jordan
Orion
Gladiator
Juggernaut

That's my personal top 6 for over and underrated. As for the Superman hate I feel since Baz is gone that it has lessened here but the Multiversal feat really brought the heat and traffic here and other places.

TBH, there isn't a single universally-loved character on KMC. Almost every one of the more popular characters has at least one or two fervent fanboys, and at least the same amount of haters.

That is true. That is why with Baz gone I feel the hate for Supes has gone down.

Hulk on the other hand is not being done any favors by Carver or Hulkster.

Originally posted by playa1258
That is true. That is why with Baz gone I feel the hate for Supes has gone down.

Hulk on the other hand is not being done any favors by Carver or Hulkster.

A story as old as time, that is.

Originally posted by playa1258
Overrated: Martian Manhunter
Flash
Silver Surfer
Hulk
Thor
Doctor Doom

Underrated: Superman
Lex Luthor
Hal Jordan
Orion
Gladiator
Juggernaut

That's my personal top 6 for over and underrated. As for the Superman hate I feel since Baz is gone that it has lessened here but the Multiversal feat really brought the heat and traffic here and other places.

I hate battle zones but I would most definitely BZ you on this topic. Especially using the people you mentioned above as being hated here.

I don't do BZ but I'm sure Abhi would BZ over both Hulk and Superman hate.

Originally posted by playa1258
That is true. That is why with Baz gone I feel the hate for Supes has gone down.

Hulk on the other hand is not being done any favors by Carver or Hulkster.

Please cite and link these posts by me that involve Hulk.

Are you serious???? 😄😄😄😄

I need to find out who popularised the term "space cheese" and ban them.

Slightly unrelated but I was one of the dumb kids who thought the moon was actually made of cheese well into 4th grade. There was a good week I was super bummed I could never be an astronaut because I was lactose-intolerant.... Just a dumb, sad, gassy kid... what were we talking about?

The earliest I found was from 2011

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nice rant. Wonder woman lifted half of eternity too. It was you who was saying that because gladiator busted a piece of rock(albeit a giant rock), he's the strongest herald. Now Bill destroyed planetS in his fight with stardust, so now he is the strongest one, right? These space cheese feats are meaningless, superman turned the wheels of Maggedon who was bigger than entire solar system and pushed a ship through hyperspace which was towing earth and moon simultaneously. He also nearly broke earth by just free falling from upper atmosphere while nearly dead and almost powerless. Don't try to get in a feat war with Superman/Thor. Not even surfer has feats like them, gladiator who?

You're welcome

Edit: actually, just found one from 2010, from Rage.

Not EVEN Surfer???

Originally posted by playa1258
Overrated: Martian Manhunter
Flash
Silver Surfer
Hulk
Thor
Doctor Doom

Underrated: Superman
Lex Luthor
Hal Jordan
Orion
Gladiator
Juggernaut

That's my personal top 6 for over and underrated. As for the Superman hate I feel since Baz is gone that it has lessened here but the Multiversal feat really brought the heat and traffic here and other places.

I still haven't seen it as a multiversal punch. I don't care which character did it. It simply made no sense to make it into something that it clearly was not. It was a great punch but give me a break. And my opinion has nothing to do with hate.

Originally posted by Stoic
I still haven't seen it as a multiversal punch. I don't care which character did it. It simply made no sense to make it into something that it clearly was not. It was a great punch but give me a break. And my opinion has nothing to do with hate.

Its not

Thor has significantly more appearances than Surfer and Superman has more than both.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Thor has significantly more appearances than Surfer and Superman has more than both.

So what?

Post Crisis Superman>Thor>Surfer. Period.

Superman has resisted and even no sold molecular manipulation before.

Originally posted by panthergod
So what?

Post Crisis Superman>Thor>Surfer. Period.

Superman>Surfer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Conor Mcgregor>Thor

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
Lmao my brother!



I still have to respectfully disagree. Matter manipulation is no joke! Thor and Supes both can't do it even close to Surfer can as far as I know. Surfer has atomized weapons and enemies alike during battle, he reconstructed Beta Ray Bill's hammer with it, I can go on and on and on. So the "he just doesn't have the feats" bit just isn't true! I can be wrong, but honestly nothing anyone has said so far has convinced me, but maybe I'm still dumb! I'm still sometimes sad and often gassy!

Basically look at all the fights Surfer had against his peers (Thor, Firelord, BRB, etc.). How strong are his blasts? How well on average does he affect his peers with his blasts?

Has Surfer atomized (through MM) something or someone without touching them?

Has he atomized someone (through MM) or something with high level durability (a peer to him)?

Now if you believe that durability isn't a factor of resisting MM then
do you believe Surfer can atomize Odin or Thanos or Zeus or Thor or etc.

Note: A durable object or material has a much stronger bond (takes more power to separate or break the bonds) and therefore would be harder to MM than a less durable object.

I went back to read it and it actually looks he atomized the weapon with eye beams:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HpJDRHQg7l4/VoTiVmEHN7I/AAAAAAAAWy4/b26xVuOcYcc/s1600-Ic42/RCO022.jpg

Before that moment Algol was beating Surfer pretty bad with it as both a blunt object and a tool that was "draining his power" as seen on the two pages prior:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U8uyURAMGtI/VoTiVcCxEoI/AAAAAAAAWy4/QkYeNf9hZ6Q/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pz77HCMYp1s/VoTiVnT_ETI/AAAAAAAAWy4/_GGm1epb6rw/s1600-Ic42/RCO021.jpg

So SS was supposedly "weakened" when he did this, just this guy figured out one of the few things really piss him off and get him engaged enough to try (that dead ho Shalla. Get over it bruh)

Do I really think he's capable of reducing Doomsday or Thor to atoms from a distance like it's nothing? Hell no. Those guys aren't jokes either. But don't take the respect from his name just cuz others overdo it!