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Both characters are Pre-New 52, and they're arm wrestling on an adamantium table.

Orion.

Orion

Cap

Why?

Better strength fts.

Like what?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like what?

https://imgur.com/a/Q7A6d

Orion got a better showing than that against Superman in King of the world.

I've never seen Orion do something like that to the League

Cap have better strength fts.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I've never seen Orion do something like that to the League
He actually stood up to a sunamped Superman who J'onn said was more than entire Justice League combined.

https://imgur.com/a/RO2LAhI

It took J'onn, Diana, Supergirl, Superboy, Barda and Steel to momentarily hold him.

https://i.postimg.cc/rDLjtjkq/Screenshot-485.png

^you count Orion using the astroforce as pure physical strength?

Here's what happens when Orion goes strength to strength with Superman.

Get stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/y3c91qWc/Screenshot-486.png

Gets stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/kVHtWMbW/Screenshot-487.png

Only time ehe has an advantage is when the others gang up on Supes


https://i.postimg.cc/dD2LVj42/Screenshot-488.png

How you think this "feat" is anywhere as impressive as the Shazam/JL feat doesn't surprise me one bit

Reeling from a punch is not being "stomped"! Orion was up and fighting right after. In the Shazam/JL fight, was Superman present? And if he was, doesn't Shazam's magic enhance his punches against him?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
https://i.postimg.cc/rDLjtjkq/Screenshot-485.png

^you count Orion using the astroforce as pure physical strength?

Here's what happens when Orion goes strength to strength with Superman.

Get stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/y3c91qWc/Screenshot-486.png

Gets stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/kVHtWMbW/Screenshot-487.png

Only time ehe has an advantage is when the others gang up on Supes


https://i.postimg.cc/dD2LVj42/Screenshot-488.png

How you think this "feat" is anywhere as impressive as the Shazam/JL feat doesn't surprise me one bit
Getting punched away is being stomped?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Getting punched away is being stomped?



It's certaintly not "standing" up to

Meanwhile Shazam was actually giving the JL problems

Yes, it was standing up to him.

Individually to each Justice league members. This Superman was stronger than entire Justice League combined minus Orion.

Show me where he "stood up" to him

He used the astroforce literally. we see this on panel

He's only able to punch away Supes when the others gang on up him

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Show me where he "stood up" to him

He used the astroforce literally. we see this on panel

He's only able to punch away Supes when the others gang on up him
In the meanwhile did we see any damage to Orion by the repeated punches by Superman? He was fine.

Superman at normal level has almost beat Cap to death.

I mean we're discussing strength feats though, not durability

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I mean we're discussing strength feats though, not durability
So Orion is more durable than he is strong?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So Orion is more durable than he is strong?

I don't know what point your getting at. I asked for a strength feat, and you're switching it up to "well OrIoN Was Unharmed!!"

might as well show an actual strength feat that'd put him above Shazam

To be fair, I would say Captain Marvel's fight with Dreadnaught is comparable, if not more impressive, to Orion's fight with Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In the meanwhile did we see any damage to Orion by the repeated punches by Superman? He was fine.

Superman at normal level has almost beat Cap to death.

When?

Originally posted by carver9
When?

He's referring to their fight in Action Comics Annual #4.

When Superman was possessed by Eclipso.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
https://i.postimg.cc/rDLjtjkq/Screenshot-485.png

^you count Orion using the astroforce as pure physical strength?

Here's what happens when Orion goes strength to strength with Superman.

Get stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/y3c91qWc/Screenshot-486.png

Gets stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/kVHtWMbW/Screenshot-487.png

Only time ehe has an advantage is when the others gang up on Supes

https://i.postimg.cc/dD2LVj42/Screenshot-488.png

How you think this "feat" is anywhere as impressive as the Shazam/JL feat doesn't surprise me one bit
Wasnt he sun amped here?


Orion

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wasnt he sun amped here?


Orion

Yes, he was, but we don't know to what extent.

I doubt he was at OWAW levels.

However, I think Captain Marvel's fight against Dreadnaught is comparable to what Orion did.

Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
He's referring to their fight in Action Comics Annual #4.

When Superman was possessed by Eclipso.

Yep. I knew exactly which fight he was talking about. Cap wasnt going all out. Can someone answer this, does Eclipso possession amp the user?

Originally posted by carver9
Yep. I knew exactly which fight he was talking about. Cap wasnt going all out. Can someone answer this, does Eclipso possession amp the user?

It seems to give normal people superhuman stats, but I'm not sure how much, or if the amount would matter in the case of someone like Superman.

It's mind control, right?

Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
Yes, he was, but we don't know to what extent.

I doubt he was at OWAW levels.

However, I think Captain Marvel's fight against Dreadnaught is comparable to what Orion did.

If you're talking when Dreadnaught was duplicating Superman's powers, I don't think he duplicated them to 100% considering how Superman treated Dreadnaught in a rematch when he resisted Psi-Phon.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep. I knew exactly which fight he was talking about. Cap wasnt going all out. Can someone answer this, does Eclipso possession amp the user?

Cap being an idiot and the Wisdom of Solomon failing him doesn't dispute it.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep. I knew exactly which fight he was talking about. Cap wasnt going all out. Can someone answer this, does Eclipso possession amp the user?

Eclipso amps by mixing his energy with their energy, so it's incompatible with Superman. Compare Superman's fights with normal humans possessed to his fight with Lar Gand. If it amped Kryptonians/Daxamites, it sure didn't show with Lar.

I just want to see Orion's combat showings that's superior. ABC logic comparison with Superman never works

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I just want to see Orion's combat showings that's superior. ABC logic comparison with Superman never works

So you're going to pull this card when outside New Gods he has almost nothing but fights against Superman. He did fine against Black Adam despite being at a flight disadvantage.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So you're going to pull this card when outside New Gods he has almost nothing but fights against Superman. He did fine against Black Adam despite being at a flight disadvantage.

we're discussing strength feats delta

besides, Supes far surpassed Orion awhile ago in PC. before new 52 continuity

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
we're discussing strength feats delta

besides, Supes far surpassed Orion awhile ago in PC. before new 52 continuity

So? Orion still was more impressive in KOTW than what you showed for Cap.

Originally posted by Delta1938
So? Orion still was more impressive in KOTW than what you showed for Cap.

ok show a better strength feat.

Delta, you do this everytime. show some evidence for once

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's mind control, right?

Totally. I see your point. So it pretty much shows that Eclipso fought in Superman's, place making the reference moot to a certain extent that supercedes lesser puppeteer manipulations. Eclipso is nearly as invasive as Starro. Good catch.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
ok show a better strength feat.

Delta, you do this everytime. show some evidence for once

A better feat has already been shown. Your arguments to dismiss it doesn't change the fact. Why am I going to show evidence that's already been posted but you say doesn't count 'cuz reasons?

And what the **** does this have to do with anything?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil


besides, Supes far surpassed Orion awhile ago in PC. before new 52 continuity

I already addressed abhi's scan. you can read right?

Superman surpassing Orion means ABC logic doesn't work

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I already addressed abhi's scan. you can read right?

Superman surpassing Orion means ABC logic doesn't work

No you didn't. You argued because Orion used Astro-Force at one point it wasn't pure strength then made stupid claims of Orion getting stomped. If we use your logic, it's still Orion's advantage because he used Astro-Force once, Captain Marvel is magically powered.

What the **** logic are you using? Regardless of your opinion on how they placed, that doesn't dismiss the fights they've had, especially in relation to others.

Orion didn't have a strength advantage against Sun amped Superman either like abhi claimed. Do YOU agree that he did?

Yes or no

Before coming in making assumptions, re read my post before being wrong as usual. This is why you're extremely ignorant on superman topics bruh

There is one case that makes me believe that Captain Marvel Shazam may be stronger. There was an issue that he had with Firestorm. Firestorm dropped a large lead block on Orion, which trapped him beneath it. Would the same thing happen to Shazam?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Orion didn't have a strength advantage against Sun amped Superman either like abhi claimed. Do YOU agree that he did?

Yes or no

Before coming in making assumptions, re read my post before being wrong as usual. This is why you're extremely ignorant on superman topics bruh

Abhi never claimed Orion had the strength advantage. Maybe YOU need to reread posts before making assumptions and see why you're extremely ignorant.....bruh.

Originally posted by Stoic
There is one case that makes me believe that Captain Marvel Shazam may be stronger. There was an issue that he had with Firestorm. Firestorm dropped a large lead block on Orion, which trapped him beneath it. Would the same thing happen to Shazam?

And Hulk has lost to snakes and fire hoses.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
https://imgur.com/a/Q7A6d

This is me showing a strength feat


This is abhi posting a "strength" feat that's supposedly better

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion got a better showing than that against Superman in King of the world.


GO on a break again Delta, you're messing up. this is embarassing at this point

Originally posted by Stoic
There is one case that makes me believe that Captain Marvel Shazam may be stronger. There was an issue that he had with Firestorm. Firestorm dropped a large lead block on Orion, which trapped him beneath it. Would the same thing happen to Shazam?

Hes been wrapped in titanium twice and struggled both times to break free. Orion is a great fighter but his strength fts suck.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
This is me showing a strength feat


This is abhi posting a "strength" feat that's supposedly better




GO on a break again Delta, you're messing up. this is embarassing at this point

You actually are this bad. Most of the fight is a durability showing by your own standards, the only real strength showing of note is overpowering Martian Manhunter.

Abhi didn't say Orion had a strength advantage, he said Orion's showing against Superman is more impressive than what you have for Cap. You can disagree all you want, but this is an utter reading comprehension fail. And I'm the one embarrassing myself? Pot meet kettle.

Originally posted by carver9
Hes been wrapped in titanium twice and struggled both times to break free. Orion is a great fighter but his strength fts suck.

No, not contradicting yourself at all.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You actually are this bad. Most of the fight is a durability showing by your own standards, the only real strength showing of note is overpowering Martian Manhunter.

Abhi didn't say Orion had a strength advantage, he said Orion's showing against Superman is more impressive than what you have for Cap. You can disagree all you want, but this is an utter reading comprehension fail. And I'm the one embarrassing myself? Pot meet kettle.

It's literally an arm wrestling match, and abhi asks for a strength feat, and I show it to him but he shows a durability feat/strength and you think he wasn't implying that Orion was stronger?

Superman fanboys are hilarious. you're pure entertainment my guy

why don't we ask abhi if he think Orion has a strength advantage and see how wrong you are... like usual?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It's literally an arm wrestling match, and abhi asks for a strength feat, and I show it to him but he shows a durability feat/strength and you think he wasn't implying that Orion was stronger?

Superman fanboys are hilarious. you're pure entertainment my guy

why don't we ask abhi if he think Orion has a strength advantage and see how wrong you are... like usual?

Why is your reading comprehension so poor? Orion went toe-to-toe against Superman when Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and more combined could barely restrain him. Regardless of whether you think this is less impressive than Cap overpowering J'onn or not, you claimed Abhi said he had the advantage against Superman. Which Abhi never said. You're setting yourself up for reality to rape you.

If getting knocked away is getting stomped, we have very different definitions. In fact your definition is stupid. As is your argument to dismiss Orion's showings.


You can laugh all you want, you're merely proving how utterly oblivious you are. I feel like I'm arguing with someone arrogantly claiming victory because he says 2+2=purple.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Why is your reading comprehension so poor? Orion went toe-to-toe against Superman when Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman and more combined could barely restrain him. Regardless of whether you think this is less impressive than Cap overpowering J'onn or not, you claimed Abhi said he had the advantage against Superman. Which Abhi never said. You're setting yourself up for reality to rape you.

If getting knocked away is getting stomped, we have very different definitions. In fact your definition is stupid. As is your argument to dismiss Orion's showings.


You can laugh all you want, you're merely proving how utterly oblivious you are. I feel like I'm arguing with someone arrogantly claiming victory because he says 2+2=purple.

go to sleep bro please

I'll wait for abhi response.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I don't know what point your getting at. I asked for a strength feat, and you're switching it up to "well OrIoN Was Unharmed!!"

might as well show an actual strength feat that'd put him above Shazam
Uh, what?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Orion didn't have a strength advantage against Sun amped Superman either like abhi claimed. Do YOU agree that he did?

Yes or no

Before coming in making assumptions, re read my post before being wrong as usual. This is why you're extremely ignorant on superman topics bruh
Are you on weed? Where did I say it was a strength edge for Orion?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I'll wait for abhi response.

Do you need him to straight up say he didn't say that? Probably given your reading comprehension is 2nd grade. So who embarrassed himself again?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you on weed? Where did I say it was a strength edge for Orion?

YOU were implying It was. stop backtracking now

You got caught in your lie

I posted a blatant strength feat when you asked Carv for one, and you tried to post a "comparable" one then switched it to a durability feat when I addressed it.

NOBODY asked whether Orion was durable

Originally posted by abhilegend
In the meanwhile did we see any damage to Orion by the repeated punches by Superman? He was fine.

Superman at normal level has almost beat Cap to death.

"Well ORIoN WAS unharmed!!"

Meanwhile the match is specifically arm wrestling.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
YOU were implying It was. stop backtracking now

You got caught in your lie

I posted a blatant strength feat when you asked Carv for one, and you tried to post a "comparable" one then switched it to a durability feat when I addressed it.

NOBODY asked whether Orion was durable
Well I wasn't aware standing up to a sunamped Superman isn't a strength feat.

Thanks for the education.

ermm

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
"Well ORIoN WAS unharmed!!"

Meanwhile the match is specifically arm wrestling.
Strength and durability are proportional in comics unless you are juggernaut.

No it isnt. Strength doesn't equal durability.

Thats the not the same for everybody in comics

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you on weed? Where did I say it was a strength edge for Orion?


Hey now, leave the weed outta this.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Abhi never claimed Orion had the strength advantage. Maybe YOU need to reread posts before making assumptions and see why you're extremely ignorant.....bruh.



And Hulk has lost to snakes and fire hoses.

You seem to be awfully upset about this. The Hulk has variable levels, which can be used to explain lows in a comic. Orion was stopped by an extremely heavy object that suddenly became heavier. What do fights have to do with strength, and leverage? You were going back and forth arguing battle feats in an attempt to prove who'd win an arm wrestling competition. I brought up something that questions Orion's ability to win here, and asked if anyone thought that Shazam would be pinned beneath a similar weight? What was your answer? Anyway have fun.

Originally posted by Delta1938
If you're talking when Dreadnaught was duplicating Superman's powers, I don't think he duplicated them to 100% considering how Superman treated Dreadnaught in a rematch when he resisted Psi-Phon.


I got the impression that Dreadnaught was completely duplicating their powers because Clark suspected that Dreadnaught was being overloaded with power and Psi-Phon confirmed it.

Plus, Clark had a personal force-field given to him by Dr. Hamilton, and he was beating on a weakened/powerless Dreadnaught since Clark said "I really hate to hit a foe when he's down."

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
No it isnt. Strength doesn't equal durability.

Thats the not the same for everybody in comics
In most cases it is. And Orion is such a case.

Originally posted by Stoic
You seem to be awfully upset about this. The Hulk has variable levels, which can be used to explain lows in a comic. Orion was stopped by an extremely heavy object that suddenly became heavier. What do fights have to do with strength, and leverage? You were going back and forth arguing battle feats in an attempt to prove who'd win an arm wrestling competition. I brought up something that questions Orion's ability to win here, and asked if anyone thought that Shazam would be pinned beneath a similar weight? What was your answer? Anyway have fun.
It was caused by sudden weight increase and lack of leverage. Orion later flexed out of the titanium cage.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In most cases it is. And Orion is such a case.

prove it

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
prove it
Why? When he is weaker in strength, his durability also decreases just like that.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
YOU were implying It was. stop backtracking now

You got caught in your lie

I posted a blatant strength feat when you asked Carv for one, and you tried to post a "comparable" one then switched it to a durability feat when I addressed it.

NOBODY asked whether Orion was durable

He's not backtracking. He never implied it, it's your poor reading comprehension. Actually I think you're lying, you know you got caught looking like a retard by misunderstanding his post and are accusing him of lying to try and cover yourself.

Nah I'm giving you way too much credit. You actually think he's backtracking.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? When he is weaker in strength, his durability also decreases just like that.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He's not backtracking. He never implied it, it's your poor reading comprehension. Actually I think you're lying, you know you got caught looking like a retard by misunderstanding his post and are accusing him of lying to try and cover yourself.

Nah I'm giving you way too much credit. You actually think he's backtracking.

Here comes the ad hominem attacks.

Originally posted by Stoic
You seem to be awfully upset about this. The Hulk has variable levels, which can be used to explain lows in a comic. Orion was stopped by an extremely heavy object that suddenly became heavier. What do fights have to do with strength, and leverage? You were going back and forth arguing battle feats in an attempt to prove who'd win an arm wrestling competition. I brought up something that questions Orion's ability to win here, and asked if anyone thought that Shazam would be pinned beneath a similar weight? What was your answer? Anyway have fun.

I'm the one upset? I think you're projecting, because you got pretty defensive here. I cited Hulk's examples because characters have bad showings. Your defensive arguments are irrelevant, because even if we take a calm Hulk's Class 70 as literally 70 tons, Hulk shouldn't be losing to those.

And yeah, I had forgotten about Orion breaking out of it like Abhi cited.

https://tinyurl.com/yyn7es7l

I dunno, maybe it is easier to break out of titanium with no leverage than to support the weight he lifted. But even if we pretend this is a valid argument, does it counter the multiple fights he's had with Superman?

Superman feats doesn't transfer to Orion

Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
I got the impression that Dreadnaught was completely duplicating their powers because Clark suspected that Dreadnaught was being overloaded with power and Psi-Phon confirmed it.

Plus, Clark had a personal force-field given to him by Dr. Hamilton, and he was beating on a weakened/powerless Dreadnaught since Clark said "I really hate to hit a foe when he's down."

I think you're mistaking what I said. I'm not talking when Clark as Clark with the force field fought Dreadnaught, I'm talking another issue (I think same title under the same writers but could be wrong) and Superman fought Dreadnaught while resisting Psi-Phon's telepathy. Dreadnaught got wrecked, and I wouldn't attribute it to superior skill/experience on Superman's part. So I don't think Dreadnaught duplicated powers to 100%.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Here comes the ad hominem attacks.

Your tears of unfathomable sadness are delicious.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Superman feats doesn't transfer to Orion

Quote where anybody claimed this. And I want a direct statement, not some weak ass "implied" when it actually wasn't.

You're basing Orion off a holding back Superman.
How does that make him superior to Shazam

Shazam's actually beaten Superman before unlike Orion

Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
Both characters are Pre-New 52, and they're arm wrestling on an adamantium table.


An ad hominem table? Does the table insult Billy's manliness, or patriotism?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You're basing Orion off a holding back Superman.
How does that make him superior to Shazam

Shazam's actually beaten Superman before unlike Orion

You didn't actually read the comic. And Superman was clearly at a higher level than Billy overpowering J'onn.

Plus magick makes any argument you have irrelevant. Also Captain Marvel only won via sucker punching. Fail is fail, just like "Abhi said Orion had the advantage."

Still waiting for someone claiming Orion gets Superman's feats.

Originally posted by Delta1938
You didn't actually read the comic. And Superman was clearly at a higher level than Billy overpowering J'onn.

Plus magick makes any argument you have irrelevant. Also Captain Marvel only won via sucker punching. Fail is fail, just like "Abhi said Orion had the advantage."

Still waiting for someone claiming Orion gets Superman's feats.


Shazam's also overpowered J'onn, how does that change anything?

I haven't seen not one instance where Superman had the raw strength dvantage over Shazam in their fights without some mind control involved

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Shazam's also overpowered J'onn, how does that change anything?

I haven't seen not one instance where Superman had the raw strength dvantage over Shazam in their fights without some mind control involved

Yeah, J'onn+Wonder Woman/Supergirl/Barda/ect >J'onn. Superman was barely restrained by them combined. Orion still matched him. More impressive than overpowering J'onn.

You mean where Superman if anyone is hindered? Great argument there.

But by your own logic every time there wasn't sucker punching involved Superman showed the advantage. You argued Orion's fight didn't count because he blasted Superman with Astro-Force. By that very logic, Captain Marvel's mystical nature compensates for Superman a superiority. So just by nature of Superman matching him, Superman>Captain Marvel. And this would be an always thing unlike a single blast of Astro-Force.

But then you said Orion got stomped because.....he got knocked away. Here's Captain Marvel getting stomped despite magick on his side.

https://tinyurl.com/y6tqutcy
https://tinyurl.com/y2eyl8pu

And this despite Cap's mystical nature. On top of it there's a case to be made Superman was weakened (even if a little) from prior Kryptonite and red solar energy exposure.

Or are you going to backtrack on what disqualified for it being strength and backtrack on what's getting stomped? Or maybe you'll use the retarded mind control argument. Retarded because it's Superman who will be at the disadvantage. Oh you're going to try and argue Eclipso wasn't holding back but Superman was against Orion? Eclipso wanted to possess Captain Marvel so he certainly wasn't going all out, and it's pretty inane to think Superman is going to hold back when facing Orion and the JLA plus more, unless your definition of "holding back" is "no be a murderous sociopath."

There's other examples I can give but I think this is enough until you clearly establish you're backtracking.

I'll also accept your concessions that Abhi wasn't implying Orion had the advantage, and you made up people giving Orion Superman's feats.

That's Eclipsed Superman. Eclipso confers amps, and likely makes him resistant to magic.

I ask Delta for a feat of Superman having the advantage without mind control and he proves a feat with mind control (eclipso) but he calls my comprehension skills poor. amazing

Eclipso is KNOWN for amping, period. irrelevant. Post a fight where Superman has an advantage

Originally posted by cdtm
That's Eclipsed Superman. Eclipso confers amps, and likely makes him resistant to magic.

Exactly. But Delta doesn't read so this is expected

Originally posted by cdtm
That's Eclipsed Superman. Eclipso confers amps, and likely makes him resistant to magic.

Already been covered earlier.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I ask Delta for a feat of Superman having the advantage without mind control and he proves a feat with mind control (eclipso) but he calls my comprehension skills poor. amazing

Eclipso is KNOWN for amping, period. irrelevant. Post a fight where Superman has an advantage

Even if we pretend you're not making stupid qualifiers to cover your inability to counter this (like the Eclipso argument has already been covered) you're completely ignoring the point that by YOUR OWN STANDARDS on dismissing the Orion fight because Astro-Force used once, your entire argument for Captain Marvel is invalid because magick.

You will ignore that you didn't respond to magick invalidates by your own standards. You embarrassed yourself yet again.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Exactly. But Delta doesn't read so this is expected

Originally posted by Delta1938


Eclipso amps by mixing his energy with their energy, so it's incompatible with Superman. Compare Superman's fights with normal humans possessed to his fight with Lar Gand. If it amped Kryptonians/Daxamites, it sure didn't show with Lar.

The irony is delicious.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Already been covered earlier.



Even if we pretend you're not making stupid qualifiers to cover your inability to counter this (like the Eclipso argument has already been covered) you're completely ignoring the point that by YOUR OWN STANDARDS on dismissing the Orion fight because Astro-Force used once, your entire argument for Captain Marvel is invalid because magick.

You will ignore that you didn't respond to magick invalidates by your own standards. You embarrassed yourself yet again.




The irony is delicious.


THE Astroforce AMPS Orion are you serious?

How is that in any way shape or form the same as Cap Marve being magically powered by Shazam? It's his power source obviously. your logic isn't making any sense here but glad to know you don't have any argument

Lar Gand was also on the dark side of the moon for quite awhile, though.

Eclipso amps, sure. That doesn't mean Lar suddenly stops needing solar energy to top off his reserves.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
THE Astroforce AMPS Orion are you serious?

How is that in any way shape or form the same as Cap Marve being magically powered by Shazam? It's his power source obviously. your logic isn't making any sense here but glad to know you don't have any argument

I didn't say the Astro-Force amps Orion. He has amped his punches, but I wasn't referring to that and it's pretty clear you think I said it's a strength amp. No, you dismissed the fight because he blasted Superman.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
https://i.postimg.cc/rDLjtjkq/Screenshot-485.png

^you count Orion using the astroforce as pure physical strength?

Here's what happens when Orion goes strength to strength with Superman.

Get stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/y3c91qWc/Screenshot-486.png

Gets stomped

https://i.postimg.cc/kVHtWMbW/Screenshot-487.png

Only time ehe has an advantage is when the others gang up on Supes


https://i.postimg.cc/dD2LVj42/Screenshot-488.png

How you think this "feat" is anywhere as impressive as the Shazam/JL feat doesn't surprise me one bit

Or did you think Abhi was claiming an Astro-Force blast=strength? I think that'd actually be worse than you dismissing the fight because Orion started it with a blast.

And my point was by your standards then nothing Cap does is legit against Superman because the mystical effect. Of course this argument was based on giving you more credit than I'm starting to think I should have.

Now you're just idiotic. There is no indication that Superman was amped, Cap only mentioned Superman fought more savagely.

Originally posted by cdtm
That's Eclipsed Superman. Eclipso confers amps, and likely makes him resistant to magic.
facepalm

Originally posted by cdtm
Lar Gand was also on the dark side of the moon for quite awhile, though.

Eclipso amps, sure. That doesn't mean Lar suddenly stops needing solar energy to top off his reserves.

And Superman had been fighting in darkness for quite a while. Not as long as Lar was there, but all his fighting certainly would have used up more energy.

Yes, Eclipso amps, but even if we ignore the way it works is incompatible with Kryptonians and Daxamites, your argument that Lar was on the dark side of the Moon would require him being weaker than the normal humans Eclipso possessed that Superman fought given how badly Superman beat him despite the suffocating disadvantage.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I didn't say the Astro-Force amps Orion. He has amped his punches, but I wasn't referring to that and it's pretty clear you think I said it's a strength amp. No, you dismissed the fight because he blasted Superman.



Or did you think Abhi was claiming an Astro-Force blast=strength? I think that'd actually be worse than you dismissing the fight because Orion started it with a blast.

And my point was by your standards then nothing Cap does is legit against Superman because the mystical effect. Of course this argument was based on giving you more credit than I'm starting to think I should have.

wait you think the same thing applies to shazam whenever he visibly damages Superman? It's his power source, are you literally saying the feat doesn't count for shazam because his power source is magic? desperate times

You know... It's pretty funny because Superman's pretty resistant to Magic so it would have less effect if you wanna use that

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
wait you think the same thing applies to shazam whenever he visibly damages Superman? It's his power source, are you literally saying the feat doesn't count for shazam because his power source is magic? desperate times

You know... It's pretty funny because Superman's pretty resistant to Magic so it would have less effect if you wanna use that

I'm making arguments I usually wouldn't to work within YOUR logic and arguments. Or I should say what I perceived as your logic and arguments. I believed you dismissed the fight because Orion blasted him. Like it seemed you argued just because he used an energy blast the entire fight was invalid as a strength feat. So I brought up Captain Marvel's mystical nature.

Now I'm starting to think I was wrong, that you were actually replying as if Abhi said the blast was a strength showing.....which is worse than what I thought you were arguing. So my apologies if I gave you more credit than you deserved.

Ironically regardless of what you were arguing with Abhi, your argument that Cap actually had beaten Superman is invalid given it used Zeus amping(since you need it spelled out for you, I don't think this is an official term but it's used online to name what Cap did). Something you haven't addressed.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I'm making arguments I usually wouldn't to work within YOUR logic and arguments. Or I should say what I perceived as your logic and arguments. I believed you dismissed the fight because Orion blasted him. Like it seemed you argued just because he used an energy blast the entire fight was invalid as a strength feat. So I brought up Captain Marvel's mystical nature.

Now I'm starting to think I was wrong, that you were actually replying as if Abhi said the blast was a strength showing.....which is worse than what I thought you were arguing. So my apologies if I gave you more credit than you deserved.

Ironically regardless of what you were arguing with Abhi, your argument that Cap actually had beaten Superman is invalid given it used Zeus amping(since you need it spelled out for you, I don't think this is an official term but it's used online to name what Cap did). Something you haven't addressed.

What do you think my argument is before I respond to that

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
What do you think my argument is before I respond to that

My ORIGINAL interpretation of your argument was "Orion used the Astro-Force once in the fight so the entire fight is invalid as a strength feat." But now I'm thinking even that is giving you too much credit.

I was arguing the feat didn't confirm he was stronger than Shazam

Originally posted by Delta1938
I think you're mistaking what I said. I'm not talking when Clark as Clark with the force field fought Dreadnaught, I'm talking another issue (I think same title under the same writers but could be wrong) and Superman fought Dreadnaught while resisting Psi-Phon's telepathy. Dreadnaught got wrecked, and I wouldn't attribute it to superior skill/experience on Superman's part. So I don't think Dreadnaught duplicated powers to 100%.

Well, in the issue I'm referring to Drednaught was overloaded with power; Clark suspected it and Psi-Phon confirmed it.

I think the only power Dreadnaught didn't duplicate was Martian Manhunter's invulnerability because he wanted to toy with him.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I was arguing the feat didn't confirm he was stronger than Shazam

Then why bring up Astro-Force at all? And regardless of what you want to believe, it's still better than what you brought up.

And glad you dropped accusing Abhi of backtracking because you were wrong (love how arrogant your were that I'd be proven wrong and we'll wait for what Abhi says then you accused him of lying because he "implied" it instead of you admitting your failed reading comprehension). Or that anybody gave Orion Superman's feats. I mean I rarely see people giving a character the feats of someone else, that's just not what's being argued. Except for Hulk is Hulk, but we all know he's you with slightly better English.

Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
Well, in the issue I'm referring to Drednaught was overloaded with power; Clark suspected it and Psi-Phon confirmed it.

I think the only power Dreadnaught didn't duplicate was Martian Manhunter's invulnerability because he wanted to toy with him.

Yes, I know. I've read the story. And a later comic, I do believe by the same writers(could be wrong), had Superman face them again but now that he knew how Psi-Phon worked he resisted the telepathy. You argued how Cap fared against Dreadnaught duplicating Superman, my point was because a later fight Superman was clearly superior to Dreadnaught duplicating his powers, I don't think Dreadnaught is actually equal to who he duplicates(skill and experience aside). And Superman was fairly casual in the beat down. It was ONLY Superman that Dreadnaught duplicated in the later comic, and Superman had no force field nor was in his Clark identity.

Why would I admit i was wrong if i never was in the first place? YOU can think what you like, my point still stands, and i'm waiting for YOU TO provide a single scan of Superman ever having an advantage against shazam without some estoretic control

You've been dodging that for awhile now Delta. Im not doing this "He said! she said!" either you show what i ask for, or your concession is accepted.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Why would I admit i was wrong if i never was in the first place? YOU can think what you like, my point still stands, and i'm waiting for YOU TO provide a single scan of Superman ever having an advantage against shazam without some estoretic control

You've been dodging that for awhile now Delta. Im not doing this "He said! she said!" either you show what i ask for, or your concession is accepted.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Why would I admit i was wrong if i never was in the first place? YOU can think what you like, my point still stands, and i'm waiting for YOU TO provide a single scan of Superman ever having an advantage against shazam without some estoretic control

You've been dodging that for awhile now Delta. Im not doing this "He said! she said!" either you show what i ask for, or your concession is accepted.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Why would I admit i was wrong if i never was in the first place? YOU can think what you like, my point still stands, and i'm waiting for YOU TO provide a single scan of Superman ever having an advantage against shazam without some estoretic control

You've been dodging that for awhile now Delta. Im not doing this "He said! she said!" either you show what i ask for, or your concession is accepted.

Yes, just like you didn't run away from that BZ you agreed to. No, you were wrong then you accused Abhi of lying.

Your qualifiers are as stupid as your attempts to say Abhi backtracked.

Carter's cheerleading only proves me right.

concession accepted.
Next time you engage with me, bring some proof. I don't do back n forth, don't care about you enough.

good talk though, i'll discuss it with abhi if he provides what I ask for

Originally posted by Delta1938
Yes, I know. I've read the story. And a later comic, I do believe by the same writers(could be wrong), had Superman face them again but now that he knew how Psi-Phon worked he resisted the telepathy. You argued how Cap fared against Dreadnaught duplicating Superman, my point was because a later fight Superman was clearly superior to Dreadnaught duplicating his powers, I don't think Dreadnaught is actually equal to who he duplicates(skill and experience aside). And Superman was fairly casual in the beat down. It was ONLY Superman that Dreadnaught duplicated in the later comic, and Superman had no force field nor was in his Clark identity.

I know what issue you're referring to (Adventures of Superman #469), but there was no context that indicated Dreadnaught duplicated Superman's powers again.

I didn't see any mention of it.

Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
I know what issue you're referring to (Adventures of Superman #469), but there was no context that indicated Dreadnaught duplicated Superman's powers again.

I didn't see any mention of it.


It was pretty obvious he was nowhere near Superman's level of power in the JLA fight. Literally everyone had the upper hand on him, from Martian Manjobber, to Aquaman, to fraggin Elongated Man.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
concession accepted.
Next time you engage with me, bring some proof. I don't do back n forth, don't care about you enough.

good talk though, i'll discuss it with abhi if he provides what I ask for

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
concession accepted.
Next time you engage with me, bring some proof. I don't do back n forth, don't care about you enough.

good talk though, i'll discuss it with abhi if he provides what I ask for

You really are this unaware.

Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
I know what issue you're referring to (Adventures of Superman #469), but there was no context that indicated Dreadnaught duplicated Superman's powers again.

I didn't see any mention of it.

Duplicating powers was his thing. They conned people into thinking Psi-Phon transferred powers, but it was really Psi-Phon telepathically disabled and Dreadnaught duplicated. What else do you think he was doing?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
concession accepted.
Next time you engage with me, bring some proof. I don't do back n forth, don't care about you enough.

good talk though, i'll discuss it with abhi if he provides what I ask for
Discuss what?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Discuss what?


Proof that Superman had an advantage without "esoteric control."


Which by his definition seems to mean any sort of outside influence, e.g. as if they'd ever fight in character, without being tricked or forced into it.


This isn't Marvel, Superman and Captain Marvel don't have throwdowns as part of a pissing contest.

Cap straight up said Superman only fought more savagely, there was no indication that Superman was somehow stronger.

https://i.postimg.cc/4HN74ZMj/image.jpg

Originally posted by Delta1938
Duplicating powers was his thing. They conned people into thinking Psi-Phon transferred powers, but it was really Psi-Phon telepathically disabled and Dreadnaught duplicated. What else do you think he was doing?



When Superman was talking to Dreadnaught's wife Dreadnaught crash landed near them and Superman said "I'm not an expert on Dreadnaught's physiology, but he looks okay."

So, that tells me he was trying to rely on his own physical power to beat Superman since he thought Psi-Phon would have been able to disable Superman's powers.

Psi-Phon blocks the powers of heroes and then encodes Dreadnaught to fake having them

The actual level Dreadnaught's powers are has nothing to do with the level of power the heroes themselves possess, since they're not stolen -- just mimicked.