Read the stips!! Batman/Punisher vs Thor

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DarkSaint85
Hand to hand only.

Default battlefield, 500m between the two teams.

Punisher has no guns/knives/weapons, but has his usual body armor.

Batman has no gadgets, but has his costume (cape/cowl/gauntlets/boots/batsuit. It's been enchanted, though, so ALL his little tricks and gadgets are removed. No tasers, or acid filled calluses, or smoke capsule teeth, or magical nose hairs, nothing.

Thor is classic - he has both his normal arms. Unworthy showings can be used though. No Mjolnir, or Jarnbjorn, or goats.

Can the duo win?

Edit: if too much, Round two is:. Both Bruce and Frank get adamantium K-bars.

Bentley
How are they supposed to put Thor down? They'd tire themselves to death before beating him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Bentley
How are they supposed to put Thor down? They'd tire themselves to death before beating him.

Pressure point attacks.

Round two also has the humans armed with Ka-bar knives.

DarkSaint85
ROUND THREE:

ALL contestants get the same type of knife. They have to slash each other ten times.

If a combatant is slashed ten times, he's out.

cdtm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pressure point attacks.




Doesn't Thor wear armor?

DarkSaint85
Classic Thor, as I said.

https://www.wallpaperwarehouse.com/upload_media/product/preview/1489783759QRJSHFLZ_1489783759.jpg

cdtm
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Classic Thor, as I said.

https://www.wallpaperwarehouse.com/upload_media/product/preview/1489783759QRJSHFLZ_1489783759.jpg


Yeah, him. I thought his costume was essentially body armor.

DarkSaint85
Not....not really. His neck is exposed. His arms. His flanks.

His helmet can be knocked off.

cdtm
As ridiculous as it is, I can see Bruce and Frank hurting him with pressure point attacks in a comic. Not because of a low showing from Thor, specifically (Although he has plenty of low end showings), but because Marvel writer's are just terrible, when it comes to leveling fights between heralds and streets.


I mean, Daredevil vs Namor should end with Murdoch breaking every bone in his hand, as soon as he launch's a punch at his jaw. Yet, he actually push's his chin back, and seems to stun him.


Then there's stupid stuff like T'challa dropping Cage. All those gunmen should have aimed for his pressure points.

carver9
This is sad

AlbertoJohnAvil
This is still a massive spite in Thor's favor

Uh saint you realize that Thor manhandled and was stated to be stronger than Classic Iron Man without Mjolnir right?

A punch from Thor would put these two in a coma

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
This is sad

Contribute or stop trolling, please.

Wolverine has slashed Thor plenty. Now, Punisher and Batman aren't as fast as Wolverine (or are they?????) But there are two of them here, and they're both pretty skilled.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Wolverine claws has also slashed Gladiator, and WWH Hulk..

Dude please do not put Punisher in the same category as Logan

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
This is still a massive spite in Thor's favor

Uh saint you realize that Thor manhandled and was stated to be stronger than Classic Iron Man without Mjolnir right?

A punch from Thor would put these two in a coma

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11133/111333401/6500158-1233.jpg

Strength is good. But:
https://i.imgur.com/RsDySMz.jpg

carver9
Thor stomps

DarkSaint85
Moreover, remember people: there are THREE rounds.


Rd1: h2h fighting.
Rd2: Batman/Punisher get adamantium knives
Rd3: Everyone gets an adamantium knife, the team have to slash Thor 10 times, Thor has to slash EACH of the team 10 times to win.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Thor stomps

Reasoning? Or have you stopped backing your stance up these days? Does he stomp in all 3?

AlbertoJohnAvil
Yeah, Thor wins

obvious bait is obvious

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yeah, Thor wins

obvious bait is obvious

You haven't given any reasoning.

In Rd1, sure, he could KO them (although I can show Batman and Frank having incredible durability).

Rd2? Why can't they keep stabbing and slashing him? These two are pretty damn ruthless.

Rd3 - they only need to slash him ten times (so 5 times each). Can he not defend/attack against two HUMANS?

Please stop trolling and actually debate.

cdtm
Lot of bias around here! thumb down

D-Block
Thor stomps while massively holding back so he doesn't kill these 2

DarkSaint85
Based on?

And which rounds?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11133/111333401/6500158-1233.jpg

Strength is good. But:
https://i.imgur.com/RsDySMz.jpg
Round 1 and 2 r spite.
Also pressure points r not a given when Thor is not written down.
http://i.imgur.com/BdLMbDam.jpg

Round 3.
Still Thor. His strength is too much. He can prolly keep them off balance with shockwaves or ground quakes and such. If he uses his speed it's even worse.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Round 1 and 2 r spite.
Also pressure points r not a given when Thor is not written down.
http://i.imgur.com/BdLMbDam.jpg

Round 3.
Still Thor. His strength is too much. He can prolly keep them off balance with shockwaves or ground quakes and such. If he uses his speed it's even worse.

No groundquakes or shockwaves or t claps. He's fighting with honour, attempting to slash them before they slash him. Like with Wolverine, who slashed him plenty.

Pressure points still affected him there in that scan...in round two, they can target those points with knives now. But accept that it's not a given. Debatable, one might say.

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Round 1 and 2 r spite.
Also pressure points r not a given when Thor is not written down.
http://i.imgur.com/BdLMbDam.jpg

Round 3.
Still Thor. His strength is too much. He can prolly keep them off balance with shockwaves or ground quakes and such. If he uses his speed it's even worse.

This

AlbertoJohnAvil
The only reason Thor sometimes comes off slower is because he massively limits his physical speed and strength to avoid accidental undue damage or death to mortals and their environment. Thor can swing his hammer, attack and travel at many times the speed of light.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Contribute or stop trolling, please..

I asked nicely.

Reported.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Odinson and Gorr were knocking each other from planet to planet throughout a star system in moments Anyone that ever thought Thor's "combat speed" was slow, or anything less than massively faster than light is simply ignorant

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The only reason Thor sometimes comes off slower is because he massively limits his physical speed and strength to avoid accidental undue damage or death to mortals and their environment. Thor can swing his hammer, attack and travel at many times the speed of light.

Fair enough. Mjolnir isn't here though.

cdtm
He can emit lightning without the hammer.

Edit. Whoops, forgot the stips.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough. Mjolnir isn't here though.

He has a feat of him moving so fast he pops a sonic boom in Heimdalls ear. I'll post it soon lol

AlbertoJohnAvil
Here's an example though. On you if you wanna accept it, personally it's still Thors power but whateves

Speed of Lady Thor.... Covering 400,000,000 miles in two punches. Basically no longer then a second and a half.

An average punch speed is at 11 m/s. Where maximum for humans is at 14 m/s. What I wrote up there was on a whim but the truth is clearly faster

If you really want to be accurate (hoping my calculations correct here) with what I've just said a human takes 0.18 seconds to perform a single punch.


.18 x 5 = more or less one second. 5 x 400 mil equals. 2 billion miles. 2 billion miles in a second. Light travels at 187,000 miles per second. Which means they travelled at 10660 times the speed of light casually while fighting...

It takes a nano second to reach the speed of light which is 187000miles. They did that 10,000 times over within the fight.

Nuff said lol

https://i.postimg.cc/DJL4QWct/pas.jpg

MrMind
team takes turn gangbang thor, this thread needs more stilt

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No groundquakes or shockwaves or t claps. He's fighting with honour, attempting to slash them before they slash him. Like with Wolverine, who slashed him plenty.

Pressure points still affected him there in that scan...in round two, they can target those points with knives now. But accept that it's not a given. Debatable, one might say.

Not sure why not using ure strength is not honorable. embarrasment
Weird because he's so exponentially stronger than both that there can accidental battefield destruction. But ok...

K so he's nerfed even further... Hmm.
R 1 and 2 still spite.
R3 he can lose if he takes it easy. He can win if he actually uses his speed. Only thing with that he's not a "speedster" so I dont see his control over his speed as nuanced as a traditional speedster. I see him using his speed more forcefully which can kill these squishies. Hmm...

It did? Which scan? Looks like it pretty much failed in my scan.

D-Block
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Based on?

And which rounds?

Didn't notice the rounds in the OP my bad. He could lose round 3 if he fights like he normally does against street level guys. If he cuts loose he could still win IMO

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not sure why not using ure strength is not honorable. embarrasment
Weird because he's so exponentially stronger than both that there can accidental battefield destruction. But ok...

K so he's nerfed even further... Hmm.
R 1 and 2 still spite.
R3 he can lose if he takes it easy. He can win if he actually uses his speed. Only thing with that he's not a "speedster" so I dont see his control over his speed as nuanced as a traditional speedster. I see him using his speed more forcefully which can kill these squishies. Hmm...

It did? Which scan? Looks like it pretty much failed in my scan.

He's not that nerfed, especially compared to Batman who has zero gadgets.....or Punisher, who has zero guns.....plus, he's still a fricking high herald no? One of the highest in Marvel, who goes trans on occasion?

Against two humans. Complaining (or remarking) that he's nerfed is.....weird.

Btw, I don't think I need to remind everyone that they fight in character here. Just without powers.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's not that nerfed, especially compared to Batman who has zero gadgets.....or Punisher, who has zero guns.....plus, he's still a fricking high herald no? One of the highest in Marvel, who goes trans on occasion?

Against two humans. Complaining (or remarking) that he's nerfed is.....weird.

Btw, I don't think I need to remind everyone that they fight in character here. Just without powers.
Round 1 and 2 Thor.

Round 3...
Ermm.. Not really complaining but...
U want him to fight two people out of his normal portrayal against two who r still fighting within their normal portayal.
Its moot even mentioning "going trans" because now he has to walk on even more egg shells in these stips.
Not to mention your stipulation of no shockwaves and such was not originally in your op. It was added only after it was brought up.
Hence why i said weird.

StiltmanFTW
https://i.imgur.com/0hQyd5L.gif

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Round 1 and 2 Thor.

Round 3...
Ermm.. Not really complaining but...
U want him to fight two people out of his normal portrayal against two who r still fighting within their normal portayal.
Its moot even mentioning "going trans" because now he has to walk on even more egg shells in these stips.
Not to mention your stipulation of no shockwaves and such was not originally in your op. It was added only after it was brought up.
Hence why i said weird.

Forum rules. I can add clarifications within two days or twonpages.. I thought it was clear originally that I wanted a knife fight, hence the addition of knives. Which is why I didn't mention it - I didn't think Thor needed to resort to t claps and groundpounds. Did you not say he could dig a trench faster than the eye could see? With such a guy, ten slashes would be nothing, especially as he would be holding something as light as a simple knife.

He's holding his strength back perhaps (you're the expert here) but he has ZERO reason to hold his speed and skill back. He doesn't want to get cut, so under these stips, and with his speed and skills gleaned from thousands of years of fighting, surely he can slash these guys before they slash him?

I mean, replace Thor under these stips with Flash, or Quicksilver, or Spidey, or Wolverine - they could all do it. Flash and QS obv faster than the other two, sure, but no one would cry that Flash is walking on eggshells. He sees a blade, he'll avoid it.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Forum rules. I can add clarifications within two days or twonpages.. I thought it was clear originally that I wanted a knife fight, hence the addition of knives. Which is why I didn't mention it - I didn't think Thor needed to resort to t claps and groundpounds. Did you not say he could dig a trench faster than the eye could see? With such a guy, ten slashes would be nothing, especially as he would be holding something as light as a simple knife.

He's holding his strength back perhaps (you're the expert here) but he has ZERO reason to hold his speed and skill back. He doesn't want to get cut, so under these stips, and with his speed and skills gleaned from thousands of years of fighting, surely he can slash these guys before they slash him?

I mean, replace Thor under these stips with Flash, or Quicksilver, or Spidey, or Wolverine - they could all do it. Flash and QS obv faster than the other two, sure, but no one would cry that Flash is walking on eggshells. He sees a blade, he'll avoid it.
Did i say that? I guess ure referencing this? Actually it says "almost faster". A human would most likely see him as a blur here. Havent brought that up at all in this thread actually.
http://i.imgur.com/JYifKLAm.jpg

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Only thing with that he's not a "speedster" so I dont see his control over his speed as nuanced as a traditional speedster. I see him using his speed more forcefully which can kill these squishies.
Look above.
Although he has traditional speedsterlike showings, he's not your traditional speedster. Even with the scan above, slashing someone without killing them takes a little more refinement.
But if we're gonna take his best showings of movement, then he prolly can outslash them.

Stoic
It's funny how Thor went from Odin this and that, to nearly despising Odin these days.

I think that Thor's constitution, toughness, strength, and the natural speed he'd get from being that strong vs his weight should be too much for these guys. However, Batman can hurt Grundy, which should allow him to hurt Thor (even though it makes little sense).

In reality, these two would have better luck toppling a mountain than beating a guy capable of being tossed through one and having the endurance to get up after it.

-Pr-
How is this not abhorrent spite?

Badabing
Bat kick?

-Pr-
Well yes, but outside of that.

Badabing
In a comic, Batman would wing it until Thor gets pissed and uses an AOA attack. Not sure if Frank would last nearly as long as Bats. Bats/Cap or Bats/DD would be fun. This would be entertaining to watch but wouldn't end well once Thor gets pissed.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
How is this not abhorrent spite?

Because in round 1, Batman alone has showings of taking down herald level foes. He's used pressure points on Grundy, Super Titan Gladiator, has KOd Cheetah with a punch, and taken out another of WWs foes (I forgot his name) with MA. That's skill.

Speedwise, he has tagged Kid Flash, outrun HV after it was fired, escaped from Jay etc. That's speed.

Has taken blows from Mongul, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman etc. That's durability.

Conversely, Thor HAS shown to have been vulnerable to pressure point attacks (Mantis, who hit him with her fragile wrists). HAS been shown to have been outsped by street levellers.

And now, Batman has Frank backing him up, who has some skill himself, is speedy enough to have tagged Spidey, and is durable as phuck.

Round 2? They have knives that they're familiar with. The aforementioned pressure points? Imagine being stabbed with them.

Round 3? They each need to slash Thor five times. Thor needs to make 20 slashes before they do so. I think it's VERY competitive. Again, Bruce alone has taken Lobo's fingers off before he even noticed.

Bada: no AOA attacks are allowed. It's pure h2h in round 1, knives against Thor in 2, and essentially a game of tag in round 3 (the slashes don't have to KO anyone, they just need to happen).

Badabing
My bad. I'm not at my best. Lol.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Round 2? They have knives that they're familiar with. The aforementioned pressure points? Imagine being stabbed with them.



And Frank has plenty of knife feats...

Originally posted by Galan007
Punisher:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183350_The_Punisher_2016-_223-012.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183351_The_Punisher_2016-_223-013.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183352_The_Punisher_2016-_223-014.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183353_The_Punisher_2016-_223-015.jpg

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183354_The_Punisher_2016-_223-016.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183355_The_Punisher_2016-_223-017.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183356_The_Punisher_2016-_223-018.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38183357_The_Punisher_2016-_223-019.jpg

Outlier? Not really, as Frank was smart enough to go for the weak spots back in 1990:

- http://i.imgur.com/DULjNHo.jpg
- http://i.imgur.com/JeLLuQT.png

The knife throw was fatal and took care of the guy.

He's accurate as f*ck with knives, even at a distance:

http://i.imgur.com/1E2FJop.png

Does the same thing to Black Widow's gauntlet:

http://i.imgur.com/zjQ9dJi.png

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And now, Batman has Frank backing him up, who has some skill himself

thumb up

These guys... they use judo throws and karate kicks and wrestling holds and dance an' punch like boxers, like the greats...

https://i.imgur.com/ZakYbJY.jpg

Shōrin-ryū:

https://i.imgur.com/f5UNwbJ.jpg

Chin Na:

https://i.imgur.com/N376oZD.jpg

Hwa Rang Do:

https://i.imgur.com/UpBOeVH.jpg

Ninjutsu (of course):

https://i.imgur.com/gRy2mvb.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
is speedy enough to have tagged Spidey.

And can dodge him, too...

http://i.imgur.com/iLTBFcc.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
and is durable as phuck.

That he is... rolling on floor laughing

http://i.imgur.com/vwrEfsj.jpg

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because in round 1, Batman alone has showings of taking down herald level foes. He's used pressure points on Grundy, Super Titan Gladiator, has KOd Cheetah with a punch, and taken out another of WWs foes (I forgot his name) with MA. That's skill.

Speedwise, he has tagged Kid Flash, outrun HV after it was fired, escaped from Jay etc. That's speed.

Has taken blows from Mongul, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman etc. That's durability.

Conversely, Thor HAS shown to have been vulnerable to pressure point attacks (Mantis, who hit him with her fragile wrists). HAS been shown to have been outsped by street levellers.

And now, Batman has Frank backing him up, who has some skill himself, is speedy enough to have tagged Spidey, and is durable as phuck.

Round 2? They have knives that they're familiar with. The aforementioned pressure points? Imagine being stabbed with them.

Round 3? They each need to slash Thor five times. Thor needs to make 20 slashes before they do so. I think it's VERY competitive. Again, Bruce alone has taken Lobo's fingers off before he even noticed.

Bada: no AOA attacks are allowed. It's pure h2h in round 1, knives against Thor in 2, and essentially a game of tag in round 3 (the slashes don't have to KO anyone, they just need to happen).
Batman is not herald level stop it

Bruce is presented as a guy who is fantastically better than anything in the real world, but who still wears bullet-proof armor and dodges gunfire because it'll put a hole in him. Who consistently struggles with metahumans. Who uses gadgets and his tactical mind to make up for the lack of power. Etc. He doesn't outspeed lasers, he's not noted in-comic as being 'faster' than a speedster

StiltmanFTW
He's not.

But his strikes have affected heralds... especially heralds with pretty much the same type of invulnerability as Thor - such as Wonder Woman:

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-41a385fcf80ffea7c4eeb535e2f61169.webp

You complained about the Public Enemies instance, when Grundy was initially mind-controlled (said control broke when he got exposed to Batman's tear gas)...

... so how about this showing, then?

https://i.imgur.com/dt5lF9a.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2plbEeU.jpg

Posted it before, but you ignored it.

This time, it was Grundy who had the element of surprise against Bruce --- he still got KO'd.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Grundy varies and is INCONSISTENT

I mean, Bruce has been KO'ed by far, far less than that. If we're going to look at every single appearance he's had. He's been badly beaten up by far, far less than Wonder Woman. He's also threatened enough by bullets to actually want to DODGE when people shoot at him. For goodness sakes he lost to Slade with prep recently

So my question is do we acknowledge that sometimes the writing is just bad? Or does every single feat count here, cherry-picked to please the picker's side of the discussion?

AlbertoJohnAvil
Spidey and Cap also affected heralds a dozen times, more than Batman

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Grundy varies and is INCONSISTENT

Like every character in DC and Marvel comics.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I mean, Bruce has been KO'ed by far, far less than that. If we're going to look at every single appearance he's had. He's been badly beaten up by far, far less than Wonder Woman. He's also threatened enough by bullets to actually want to DODGE when people shoot at him. For goodness sakes he lost to Slade with prep recently

He has.

So it should be easy for you to argue for Thor winning the first round and perhaps even the second. Bring it on.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
So my question is do we acknowledge that sometimes the writing is just bad? Or does every single feat count here, cherry-picked to please the picker's side of the discussion?

It's not exactly cherry-picking, if said feats get replicated enough times.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Spidey and Cap also affected heralds a dozen times, more than Batman

Which you failed to prove in the other thread.

Not saying you're wrong -- you just failed to deliver.

AlbertoJohnAvil
yes it is. This isn't outlier Batman we're discussing, it's normal Bruce whos a peak human/meta

AlbertoJohnAvil
What other thread?

This is my first mentioning Spidey and Cap affecting heralds. I don't remember

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
yes it is. This isn't outlier Batman we're discussing, it's normal Bruce whos a peak human/meta

Who also happens to wear a really durable armor.

He survived Shazam's lightning. He survived Superman's heat vision.

Tanked punches from Super Titan Gladiator.

Got blindsided and smashed into concrete by a jokerized Diana.

It keeps happening.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
What other thread?

This is my first mentioning Spidey and Cap affecting heralds. I don't remember

Oh, you know. The one in which you pretended to have read Captain America comics - specifically the one with him fighting Rhino for the whole issue stick out tongue

AlbertoJohnAvil
0_0 Rhino isn't a herald

...what are you talking about...?

StiltmanFTW
You tried to prove in that thread that Cap hits harder than Batman, the point is. And you failed to do so.

Also... strength/durability-wise, Rhino can be considered a herald - he's no different than Grundy (who happens to be in the low herald tier); he has his low and high showings.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Ohhh that one

Yeah no I debunked you on that.

AlbertoJohnAvil
We can save that topic for another time, but Both Cap and SPidey has just as much outliers as Batman, it not more

I go by with what makes sense, not lightspeed superman tanking batman

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Ohhh that one

Yeah no I debunked you on that.

No, you didn't.

You didn't even read the comic you referenced.

StiltmanFTW
And when I gave you the issue number... you still couldn't find the comic.

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because in round 1, Batman alone has showings of taking down herald level foes. He's used pressure points on Grundy, Super Titan Gladiator, has KOd Cheetah with a punch, and taken out another of WWs foes (I forgot his name) with MA. That's skill.

Speedwise, he has tagged Kid Flash, outrun HV after it was fired, escaped from Jay etc. That's speed.

Has taken blows from Mongul, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman etc. That's durability.

Conversely, Thor HAS shown to have been vulnerable to pressure point attacks (Mantis, who hit him with her fragile wrists). HAS been shown to have been outsped by street levellers.

And now, Batman has Frank backing him up, who has some skill himself, is speedy enough to have tagged Spidey, and is durable as phuck.

Round 2? They have knives that they're familiar with. The aforementioned pressure points? Imagine being stabbed with them.

Round 3? They each need to slash Thor five times. Thor needs to make 20 slashes before they do so. I think it's VERY competitive. Again, Bruce alone has taken Lobo's fingers off before he even noticed.

Bada: no AOA attacks are allowed. It's pure h2h in round 1, knives against Thor in 2, and essentially a game of tag in round 3 (the slashes don't have to KO anyone, they just need to happen).

I was really, really hoping you were going to say you were just trolling, or taking the piss.

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I'll be closing this soon for spite, too. WTF, y'all.

Badabing
Good call Pr. Batman stomps poor, slow Thor given the thread stips. biscuits

StiltmanFTW
Bada is one of the biggest Wayne fans on the site, I trust him more than some new global who needed to wait 1.5 decade for a promotion whistle whistle whistle

Seriously, though... there are 3 rounds, stips got adjusted...

Physicals are not everything. Frank choked and knocked out Tiger Shark who was juiced up and standing in the water.

Batman... is Batman.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No, you didn't.

You didn't even read the comic you referenced.

Yes, I absolutely debunked you on that. bringing up something that you got corrected on from months ago IS pretty funny though laughing out loud

Batman IS NOT herald level. period

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yes, I absolutely debunked you on that. bringing up something that you got corrected on from months ago IS pretty funny though laughing out loud

Batman IS NOT herald level. period

No, Alberto.

You didn't read the comic. You couldn't even find it after I gave you the issue details.

Why do you keep lying?

Magnificent M
Unless it's totally out-of-character, Thor could spam thunderclaps and end it easily.
Ah, who am I kidding, he's too dumb to do that.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Believe what you want, if you still feel salty about it take it up with somebody else. simple as that, now let's get back on topic

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Believe what you want, if you still feel salty about it take it up with somebody else. simple as that, now let's get back on topic

Why did you lie about reading the comic and being familiar with the context of Cap/Rhino fight?

It's obvious you've seen nothing more than a single scan taken out of context.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Magnificent M
Unless it's totally out-of-character, Thor could spam thunderclaps and end it easily.
Ah, who am I kidding, he's too dumb to do that.

He's dumb, yeah.

But even if he fought smart... he's been forbidden from using such tactics by the threadstarter:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No groundquakes or shockwaves or t claps. He's fighting with honour, attempting to slash them before they slash him.

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bada is one of the biggest Wayne fans on the site, I trust him more than some new global who needed to wait 1.5 decade for a promotion whistle whistle whistle

Seriously, though... there are 3 rounds, stips got adjusted...

Physicals are not everything. Frank choked and knocked out Tiger Shark who was juiced up and standing in the water.

Batman... is Batman.

I read it. I still think it stinks of some weird, petulant shit. Hence my disappointment.

Badabing
Thor is too slow. Batman picks him apart with ease. biscuits

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
I read it. I still think it stinks of some weird, petulant shit. Hence my disappointment.

Weird petulance?

I'm surprised at that assessment. I genuinely think a case can be made for 3, and yes, for 1 and 2. Not petulance - Batman and Frank have the showings. Thor has the showings.

It's not about lifting or punching strength here. Nor is it about durability (adamantium and pressure points negate that in comics). The duo have the skills and the speed, I think, to win 3, and is debatable (as all good matchups should be) for rounds 1&2.

Batman is severely nerfed by having no gadgets, Thor cannot use long range or storm/electrical powers, and has no Mjolnir. Punisher has no weapons sans knife in 2&3.

No one arguing for Thor 'stomping' has shown any scans proving he can 100% be immune to pressure point attacks. Nor have they shown any scans proving 100% that he can slash 20x before they each slash 5x.

Instead we are seeing 'ground pounds', 'thunderclap spams', AoE attacks.... essentially, everything to ensure Thor isn't going up close and personal with these guys.

When up close and personal is how he usually fights, he just doesn't get his energy attacks.

Put it this way. If I made a Thor vs Batman/Punisher thread, and stipulated strength and durability were equalised.....this wouldn't be an issue.

My point is that strength and durability are negated by my original stips anyway.

carver9
Unless Thor isnt bright, he ends this fight as soon as it starts. Thunderclap that would drop both, then walk over to each and finish the job. Easy win for him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Unless Thor isnt bright, he ends this fight as soon as it starts. Thunderclap that would drop both, then walk over to each and finish the job. Easy win for him.

THUNDERCLAPS ARE NOT ALLOWED. I've said this over and over again.

Why does Thor need to Tclap against humans anyway, lmao. The fact that you feel he needs to resort to this is very interesting.

Edit: reported.

carver9
Second thread where I see a post from Dark RIGHT after my post. Dont think he knows I have him blocked.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Second thread where I see a post from Dark RIGHT after my post. Dont think he knows I have him blocked.

Of course I do. Means that you're not reading the stips of the thread.

Iow, you ARE trolling. My title SPECIFICALLY says to read the stips before posting.....but you don't (because you can't).

Ergo, any posts from you are to troll, as you have ZERO idea on these stips.

Thanks for admitting it.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
Unless Thor isnt bright, he ends this fight as soon as it starts. Thunderclap that would drop both, then walk over to each and finish the job. Easy win for him.

https://tinyurl.com/y6pt4hg4

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No groundquakes or shockwaves or t claps. He's fighting with honour, attempting to slash them before they slash him.

DarkSaint85
I actually think the team have a very good chance of winning round 3.

StiltmanFTW
Round 3 should be a stomp for them.

Thor has some sword feats, that's it. Like beating Lady Sif in a sparring, when they were kids.

Punisher massacred a whole squad of Hood's enhanced goons... after he surrendered to them (mistaking them for cops), when they were about to execute him with gunfire... no expression

carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://tinyurl.com/y6pt4hg4


Hhhhmmmm, didnt see that in the OP. Did the mods add it?

DarkSaint85
They didn't have to. Forum rules mean I can add them within the first two pages, or two days, whichever comes first. Moreover, it had been quoted by others (see Pr).

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Weird petulance?

I'm surprised at that assessment. I genuinely think a case can be made for 3, and yes, for 1 and 2. Not petulance - Batman and Frank have the showings. Thor has the showings.

It's not about lifting or punching strength here. Nor is it about durability (adamantium and pressure points negate that in comics). The duo have the skills and the speed, I think, to win 3, and is debatable (as all good matchups should be) for rounds 1&2.

Batman is severely nerfed by having no gadgets, Thor cannot use long range or storm/electrical powers, and has no Mjolnir. Punisher has no weapons sans knife in 2&3.

No one arguing for Thor 'stomping' has shown any scans proving he can 100% be immune to pressure point attacks. Nor have they shown any scans proving 100% that he can slash 20x before they each slash 5x.

Instead we are seeing 'ground pounds', 'thunderclap spams', AoE attacks.... essentially, everything to ensure Thor isn't going up close and personal with these guys.

When up close and personal is how he usually fights, he just doesn't get his energy attacks.

Put it this way. If I made a Thor vs Batman/Punisher thread, and stipulated strength and durability were equalised.....this wouldn't be an issue.

My point is that strength and durability are negated by my original stips anyway.

I completely disagree, and I genuinely think you're singling out Thor because you just don't like him. Or because you want to get a rise out of certain people.

The only reason I haven't closed it yet is because I'm wanting to be proven wrong and to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Badabing
Originally posted by carver9
Hhhhmmmm, didnt see that in the OP. Did the mods add it? Read the bottom of the OP. It was last edited by DS October 4th.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
I completely disagree, and I genuinely think you're singling out Thor because you just don't like him. Or because you want to get a rise out of certain people.

The only reason I haven't closed it yet is because I'm wanting to be proven wrong and to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Nope, your assessment is incorrect in that I dislike Thor - I'm not a guy who dislikes a character (they're fictional). To get a rise out of certain posters may be a more accurate assessment, relatively, but still incorrect. In my BZ ruling, I gave the win to Thor, for example.

If anything, I WANT Thor supporters to make a good, balanced case for him - not this 'Thor stomps' two word posts.

Thor has one of the best energy manipulators in comics. No question. His strength and durability have been argued over and over again (in fact, search my post history - I am one of the few to argue he is as strong as Superman , if we want to bring THAT guy in. I've also argued FOR his durability. Here, in this thread, I completely agree his strength and durability is way WAY above Bruce and Frank's.

In my thread, I am trying to get people to debate his OTHER attributes. His speed, his fighting skills, his experience. I didn't want another thread where if attributes like strength were equalised, some smart aleck comes in and says well Thor has less experience fighting at human levels, so loses - or some technicality like that.

Tl;Dr: the team have weapons, techniques and stips that bypass his durability.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Round 3 You could argue Thor losing seeing as Batman's great in cqc, and with his experience at fighting dozen of gods like Darkseid, etc over the years

and then the Adamanatium gear which should be effective against Thor

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Round 3 You could argue Thor losing seeing as Batman's great in cqc, and with his experience at fighting dozen of gods like Darkseid, etc over the years

and then the Adamanatium gear which should be effective against Thor

Plus Frank, who's handy himself with a knife.

It's actually a good balanced thread, you lot.

Rd 1: Thor stomps if points don't work, Team.,....wins if they do?
Rd2: 50/50
Rd3: Team wins.

carver9
Originally posted by Badabing
Read the bottom of the OP. It was last edited by DS October 4th.

Have him blocked. I see it now.

DarkSaint85
So you had me blocked (and couldn't read the stips)....

But posted in a thread which told you to read the stips (titles aren't blocked)......

Troll.

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope, your assessment is incorrect in that I dislike Thor - I'm not a guy who dislikes a character (they're fictional). To get a rise out of certain posters may be a more accurate assessment, relatively, but still incorrect. In my BZ ruling, I gave the win to Thor, for example.

If anything, I WANT Thor supporters to make a good, balanced case for him - not this 'Thor stomps' two word posts.

Thor has one of the best energy manipulators in comics. No question. His strength and durability have been argued over and over again (in fact, search my post history - I am one of the few to argue he is as strong as Superman , if we want to bring THAT guy in. I've also argued FOR his durability. Here, in this thread, I completely agree his strength and durability is way WAY above Bruce and Frank's.

In my thread, I am trying to get people to debate his OTHER attributes. His speed, his fighting skills, his experience. I didn't want another thread where if attributes like strength were equalised, some smart aleck comes in and says well Thor has less experience fighting at human levels, so loses - or some technicality like that.

Tl;Dr: the team have weapons, techniques and stips that bypass his durability.

I honestly just can't wrap my head around it, tbh. What exactly is supposed to bypass his durability? A couple of adamantium sticks? Pressure point attacks that are more outliers than average attacks?

It really, REALLY comes across as a spite thread, which wouldn't make sense if you like Thor as much as you say you do. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to understand.

We've seen Batman hurt Wonder Woman, but if anyone tried to argue that Batman could take her, they'd get laughed off the ****ing forum.

celeyhyga17
Thor actually has elite blade skills. Not sure about knife skills however.

As for Batman hanging with "heralds" is good an all... His usual baddies r well below(streets). If urr gonna hang ure hat on Bats hannging woth heralds, its fair to say Thor hangs with abstracts/cosmics/trans/skyfaths.. Even though his regular badies are around high meta/heralds...

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
A couple of adamantium sticks?

You've seen what Castle has done with "normal" knives...?

Adamantium is overkill.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly just can't wrap my head around it, tbh. What exactly is supposed to bypass his durability? A couple of adamantium sticks? Pressure point attacks that are more outliers than average attacks?

It really, REALLY comes across as a spite thread, which wouldn't make sense if you like Thor as much as you say you do. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to understand.

We've seen Batman hurt Wonder Woman, but if anyone tried to argue that Batman could take her, they'd get laughed off the ****ing forum.

Outliers? I have shown Thor clearly being affected by them. Celey has shown him clearly not being affected (I still think he was, but let's agree to disagree for now).

That's 1 for, 1 against. You can't say pressure points working on Thor is a outlier......

Adamantium sticks? Round 3 is merely slashing. They don't need to KO him, which has been my ENTIRE point. They just need to land 10 slashes on him - could be five from Bruce, and five from Frank, or 9 from Bruce, 1 from Frank, whatever...as long as it adds up to 10.

To defeat them, Thor isn't allowed to ground pound or thunderclap, or punch them or whatever. He HAS TO SLASH EACH OF THEM 10 TIMES EACH WITH HIS KNIFE .

Then I read posts like Thor is going to THUNDERCLAPS or whatever...I mean, come on.

Edit: this is like playing tag...and people come in and start KOing their victims, then tagging them. SMH. Just play tag, lol.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thor actually has elite blade skills.

Because he beat Sif when they were both in a kindergarten?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Because he beat Sif when they were both in a kindergarten?
No because he beat Odin who had made himeself 4x stronger than him....







































Bladeless.
sad

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Bladeless.
sad

thumb up

durthor

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
thumb up

durthor
Thor still loves u.

Tonite, he'll answer ure prayers.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thor still loves u.

Tonite, he'll answer ure prayers.

ur* durthor durthor durthor

StiltmanFTW
Celey looking for Thor's feats like:

https://tinyurl.com/y3zxhqy4

celeyhyga17
laughing out loud


Actually very true.
stick out tongue

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thor actually has elite blade skills. Not sure about knife skills however.

As for Batman hanging with "heralds" is good an all... His usual baddies r well below(streets). If urr gonna hang ure hat on Bats hannging woth heralds, its fair to say Thor hangs with abstracts/cosmics/trans/skyfaths.. Even though his regular badies are around high meta/heralds...

Apples to oranges, and you know it.

Thor hangs with the abstracts etc thanks to Mjolnir (which he doesn't have), his storm powers (which he can't use), his strength, and his durability.

Batman and Frank hang due to their agility, speed, skills, and durability. Sometimes, yes, their weaponry (which they are severely limited to in this thread).

In THIS thread, without Mjolnir and his storm powers, rounds 1 and 2 are debatable. As I've said before, I think the duo can win round 3, as all he has in an advantage is his strength.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Apples to oranges, and you know it.

Thor hangs with the abstracts etc thanks to Mjolnir (which he doesn't have), his storm powers (which he can't use), his strength, and his durability.

Batman and Frank hang due to their agility, speed, skills, and durability. Sometimes, yes, their weaponry (which they are severely limited to in this thread).

In THIS thread, without Mjolnir and his storm powers, rounds 1 and 2 are debatable. As I've said before, I think the duo can win round 3, as all he has in an advantage is his strength.
Why would u say apples to oranges when u know it's strength and durabilty im talking about?
*shrug*

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Why would u say apples to oranges when u know it's strength and durabilty im talking about?
*shrug*

Because this thread isn't comparing their strength or durability?

Unless when you made the comparison:

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
If urr gonna hang ure hat on Bats hannging woth heralds, its fair to say Thor hangs with abstracts/cosmics/trans/skyfaths.

You were saying Batman hangs with heralds due to his strength and durability? OK.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because this thread isn't comparing their strength or durability?
Uh..
So..
Stength and durability are not required in a fight where one cannot use his esoteric abilities.

K.....
At least i c where u want this thread headed to.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Uh..
So..
Stength and durability are not required in a fight where one cannot use his esoteric abilities.

K.....
At least i c where u want this thread headed to.

I am saying it doesn't matter.

Durability? Adamantium cuts all combatants. Pressure points work on all combatants. I have levelled the field here.

Strength? Thor has an INCREDIBLE strength advantage here. My point is that it is not enough to surmount the speed and skill advantage of the duo.

Unless you have scans that Thor has the speed/skill edge - which I get the feeling you don't.

Like you YOURSELF said - they are his ESOTERIC abilities which he cannot use. So surely, he has PLENTY of non-esoteric abilities - by their definition, its common, lol.

celeyhyga17
Wait so at 1 and 2.. U think they will significantly hurt Thor to the point they can take a good majority?

Should i even take this seriously?

StiltmanFTW
Frank dismantled a WM suit with nothing but a knife.

He'd dismember Thor with adamantium (which OP originally hasn't included, as it's not really needed to bypass Thor's durability).

Castle also impressed Wolverine with his speed... same Wolverine who handled Crusader in 2-3 panels... and Man-Beast in a single page.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wait so at 1 and 2.. U think they will significantly hurt Thor to the point they can take a good majority?

Should i even take this seriously?

With 2, they can take a majority. 1 is debatable.

Like I said, IMO, it's not a spite thread. It's not a lifting/striking power thread - Thor wins that at 1% of his strength, arms tied behind his back, with his teeth.

I have shown Mantis, with her 'fragile' wrist, KOing Thor. It's happened in a comic - you may not like it, but it happened. You have shown pressure points not working on him.

Hence, 1 is debatable. I have just as much proof on my side that the duo would take him out as you do of their only avenue of attack being useless.

darthgoober
Thor should win without much issue. In a forum fight he'll actually use his speed to dodge attacks and he doesn't need to land anywhere near as many to win. Mantis isn't good indicator because she's a cosmic martial artist type, her pulling something off is no more indicative of someone like Bats or Cap being able to do it than it would be if Karate Kid had accomplished the feat.

StiltmanFTW
https://i.ibb.co/Cm5L9SC/punygod1.png

https://i.ibb.co/y6Rr5rp/punygod2.png

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by darthgoober
Thor should win without much issue. In a forum fight he'll actually use his speed to dodge attacks and he doesn't need to land anywhere near as many to win. Mantis isn't good indicator because she's a cosmic martial artist type, her pulling something off is no more indicative of someone like Bats or Cap being able to do it than it would be if Karate Kid had accomplished the feat.

As will Batman. Who wouldn't have to hold back

darthgoober
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
As will Batman. Who wouldn't have to hold back
Yeah but Thor's got better feats. He's got feats of sustained multi action superspeed, Bat's and Punisher don't.

MrMind
either team 1 solos, good thread thumb up

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Outliers? I have shown Thor clearly being affected by them. Celey has shown him clearly not being affected (I still think he was, but let's agree to disagree for now).

That's 1 for, 1 against. You can't say pressure points working on Thor is a outlier......

Adamantium sticks? Round 3 is merely slashing. They don't need to KO him, which has been my ENTIRE point. They just need to land 10 slashes on him - could be five from Bruce, and five from Frank, or 9 from Bruce, 1 from Frank, whatever...as long as it adds up to 10.

To defeat them, Thor isn't allowed to ground pound or thunderclap, or punch them or whatever. He HAS TO SLASH EACH OF THEM 10 TIMES EACH WITH HIS KNIFE .

Then I read posts like Thor is going to THUNDERCLAPS or whatever...I mean, come on.

Edit: this is like playing tag...and people come in and start KOing their victims, then tagging them. SMH. Just play tag, lol.

To me, the only one that's even remotely debatable is #3. That doesn't somehow make up for the lunacy that is the other two. Nor is it enough to justify the thread.

shrug

StiltmanFTW
It is a lunacy to give Bruce and Frank the OHK weapons and force Thor to engage them in a melee combat... without his hammer.

As for the pressure points "magic". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Even Luke Cage got taken out with just two strikes from T'Challa... and Panther was powerless and missing his fancy tech and Vibranium then.

abhilegend
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://i.ibb.co/Cm5L9SC/punygod1.png

https://i.ibb.co/y6Rr5rp/punygod2.png
laughing out loud

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
To me, the only one that's even remotely debatable is #3. That doesn't somehow make up for the lunacy that is the other two. Nor is it enough to justify the thread.

shrug

You don't think it's remotely debatable for round 1?

Batman and Frank know pressure point attacks, and use them quige frequently (Batman more so, obv...Frank just shoots the pressure points).

Streets have been shown to dance around Thor. THESE streets have been shown to dance around heralds.

Pressure point attacks have OHKOd Thor before. It's not an outlier when I have just as many as the Thor supporters showing they work - IOW, 50/50.

Rd 2, they can attack those same pressure points with weapons that essentially bypass durability (I'm not giving them blunt knives, lol- they're sharp as hell. Imagine they're Wolverine claw sharp).

I honestly don't see how the first two AREN'T debatable...

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but Thor's got better feats. He's got feats of sustained multi action superspeed, Bat's and Punisher don't.
Doesn't need to be sustained.

Bentley
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You don't think it's remotely debatable for round 1?

Batman and Frank know pressure point attacks, and use them quige frequently (Batman more so, obv...Frank just shoots the pressure points).

Streets have been shown to dance around Thor. THESE streets have been shown to dance around heralds.

Pressure point attacks have OHKOd Thor before. It's not an outlier when I have just as many as the Thor supporters showing they work - IOW, 50/50.

Rd 2, they can attack those same pressure points with weapons that essentially bypass durability (I'm not giving them blunt knives, lol- they're sharp as hell. Imagine they're Wolverine claw sharp).

I honestly don't see how the first two AREN'T debatable...

I also don't see how Thor is going to fail at beating these two. Pressure points might hurt but they won't ko him, Mantis's cosmic martial arts are plot devicey and I actually wouldn't give her good odds against Thor in similar conditions.

If Thor is fighting anywhere remotely seriously Frank would be b^tchslapped in one panel. Bruce would actually last a whole page of rolling his punches and gritting his teeth through building busting punches but once he's broken a bone or two he'll eventually run out of endurance.

These guys aren't speedsters, they can't run away from Thor forever.

DarkSaint85
Like I said, it's debatable. As all good threads are.

As for plot devicey.....this is Batman after all...

How does it go in rounds 2 and3?

Bentley
I don't really see this as debatable really, you'd need to be horrible biased against Thor and ride a pressure point feat for a character that's not even here to make it remotely a fight. Anything else always end in the humans death. Such prove is as flimsy as Thor being scared of dying by falling off a building.

Remember the time Thor got koed by a sniper-shot in Priest's Black Panther run? I guess any decent gunner can take a few wins against hammerless Thor too awesr

DarkSaint85
Then we get into the realms of handbook debating. I sit here with my Marvel book, Thor is a 7 in all categories, Punisher is a 4 in speed, therefore no debate needs to take place. Ignoring what's actually happened multiple times in canon comics.

Alberto brought up hammerless Thor stalemating an IM armor in strength.

Frank took one apart with his normal knife, by targeting, yes, the joints and vulnerable spots.

Grundy takes on Alan Scott. Yet Batman takes him out with pressure points.

Ah, I hear everyone cry, Grundy is inconsistent, and Batman is PIS.

But it's CONSISTENT for pressure points to work....if anything, them not working is the outlier.

People are basically ignoring comic showings where Thor is consistently tagged by streets, pressure points consistently work, and these two consistently use these attacks to win.

Bentley
Consistently work as in how often? Getting him legthly incapacitated repeatedly by weaker opponents? This is not kryptonite, we have showings of Thor having a huge advantage against top tier martial artists.

As far as I know when Thor has fought Captain America (who is more of a martial artist than Frank) he has always have a notable edge. Not because the hammer, but because of sheer physical status. So we have a good number of showings of a pressure-point capable martial artist that has made a living out of barely surviving the likes of Thor. He has failed to defeat Thor using them and the took the U-foes. In comics Thor actually has a lengthy experience of not being in danger vs top tier martial artists. And Cap is also stronger than this two..

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Bentley
Consistently work as in how often? Getting him legthly incapacitated repeatedly by weaker opponents? This is not kryptonite, we have showings of Thor having a huge advantage against top tier martial artists.

As far as I know when Thor has fought Captain America (who is more of a martial artist than Frank) he has always have a notable edge. Not because the hammer, but because of sheer physical status. So we have a good number of showings of a pressure-point capable martial artist that has made a living out of barely surviving the likes of Thor. He has failed to defeat Thor using them and the took the U-foes. In comics Thor actually has a lengthy experience of not being in danger vs top tier martial artists. And Cap is also stronger than this two..

In their very first meeting, Cap was able to dance around Mjolnir after Thor threw it at him.

So you admit, we have a single pressure point MA barely surviving Thor. We now have two (and no, no fodder stacking here). Batman and Frank also don't have the luxury of an indestructible shield to soak up the hits- they're more dependent on avoiding them in the first place. Consistently.

Strength is....I'm still unsure why it's such a fetish. This isn't a bench contest. Mantis has shown with her fragile wrists being able to KO Thor. I 1000% concede that Thor is stronger than these two combined and amped 100x....but that's not the issue

There's a whole thread of MAs outspeeding Thor. Daredevil, Captain America, Wolverine, Sabertooth...

And then.....you're ignoring a round where they both have knives (and Thor is barehanded), and a round where they just have to prove Thor isn't 4x their speed.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Punisher isn't that fast, nor is he a speedster

AlbertoJohnAvil
Mantis can affect virtually any physical fighter with her superhuman pressure strikes. People like Her and Gamora even affect Thanos. Idk why that feat keep getting brought up

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Punisher isn't that fast, nor is he a speedster

He's fast enough - no speedster, I agree.

Fast enough to dodge and tag Spidey:
http://i.imgur.com/iLTBFcc.jpg

Who is faster than Thor:
https://i.imgur.com/4wc1DBm.jpg

He's fast enough to draw and shoot Daredevil's clubs out of the air:
http://i.imgur.com/KoRauYi.png

Daredevil, who is faster than Thor:
https://i.imgur.com/mdds218.jpg

And yes, he was fast enough to parry Cap's shield throw:
http://i.imgur.com/UDjF2ba.png

Cap, who was able to tag Puma when Mjolnir couldn't....you get the picture:
https://imgur.com/a/Hufbj2L

And yes, Wolverine:
http://i.imgur.com/ZhB6bkx.jpg

Who is faster than Thor:
https://i.imgur.com/0qk0QXf.jpg

So yeah, he's not a speedster - but he doesn't need to be. He just needs to be faster than Thor. On TOP of that, he also has a pretty capable partner in Batman.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Mantis can affect virtually any physical fighter with her superhuman pressure strikes. People like Her and Gamora even affect Thanos. Idk why that feat keep getting brought up

Because Thor has faced pressure point attacks twice in his entire career, that I know of. One time it worked, the other, it didn't. So on balance, we can say that pressure points could indeed work.

Bentley
I think round 2 and 3 need to be debated differently, to me at least I can see some other arguments brought in regarding durability and reflexes. But to me saying there is any shadow of doubt on whether Punisher can defeat Thor in hand to hand it's ludicrous if we go by comics. We can see Captain consistently surviving against Thor and that's the best these two could expect: last for a while before getting crushed.

If Captain was capable of handling Thor to an arguable capacity we would've seen that already in their lengthy careers together.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Thor holds back his speed on earth. This is what happens when he's serious, he literally hit an opponent to ANOTHER GALAXy

without Mjolnir

https://i.postimg.cc/McqPY8sW/p2o.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/MvYjQ2j0/su.jpg

DarkSaint85
....through a portal.

But that's neither here nor there. If you think he's going to unleash his full speed and strength on two humans, one of whom he's actually fought beside and who recently fought in the War of the Realms...

And that THAT'S what's needed to win, then so be it, lmao.

Thor has to release his mental blocks and stop holding back against 2 humans, confirmed lmao.

AlbertoJohnAvil
I thought they're "enhanced"

?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I thought they're "enhanced"

?

Frank isn't for sure. Batman is....iffy.

Unless I'm out of the loop and Frank is a meta.

celeyhyga17
The two can win.
If Thor lets them.

darthgoober
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Doesn't need to be sustained.
It doesn't NEED to be, but when it's sustained it's much more impressive because it shows both mental and physical speed.

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You don't think it's remotely debatable for round 1?

Batman and Frank know pressure point attacks, and use them quige frequently (Batman more so, obv...Frank just shoots the pressure points).

Streets have been shown to dance around Thor. THESE streets have been shown to dance around heralds.

Pressure point attacks have OHKOd Thor before. It's not an outlier when I have just as many as the Thor supporters showing they work - IOW, 50/50.

Rd 2, they can attack those same pressure points with weapons that essentially bypass durability (I'm not giving them blunt knives, lol- they're sharp as hell. Imagine they're Wolverine claw sharp).

I honestly don't see how the first two AREN'T debatable...

It just really, really comes across as cherry picking on your part, tbh. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how it looks to me. Like you wouldn't regard those same feats as being valid if they were used against another herald.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by -Pr-
It just really, really comes across as cherry picking on your part, tbh. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how it looks to me. Like you wouldn't regard those same feats as being valid if they were used against another herald.

He does it a lot, guy has favoritism for certain characters tbh

-Pr-
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
He does it a lot, guy has favoritism for certain characters tbh

Considering your rampant anti-Superman bias, I really would think twice about hopping in to discussions like this, if I were you.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
It just really, really comes across as cherry picking on your part, tbh. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how it looks to me. Like you wouldn't regard those same feats as being valid if they were used against another herald.

Fair enough. Fwiw, it'll be the same with Hal Jordan (no ring) evil face

But on a serious note, it's rare for a herald of this level to have so many street speed feats against him. Especially considering speed is not 'traditionally' part of his powerset.

All the feats I mentioned, have happened in a canon comic. Thor has superspeed, yes, but I'm beginning to think it's not THAT great, if two humans are not even 4x slower.

Not saying Alfred or Riddler or whatever would be able to slice and dice, btw. There's a reason I chose to elite streets here.


Edit: with regards to Alberto's accusation, I go by the canon comic showings. On handbooks, sure, Thor SHOULD annihilate.

But based on comics? Story is quite different.

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough. Fwiw, it'll be the same with Hal Jordan (no ring) evil face

But on a serious note, it's rare for a herald of this level to have so many street speed feats against him. Especially considering speed is not 'traditionally' part of his powerset.

All the feats I mentioned, have happened in a canon comic. Thor has superspeed, yes, but I'm beginning to think it's not THAT great, if two humans are not even 4x slower.

Not saying Alfred or Riddler or whatever would be able to slice and dice, btw. There's a reason I chose to elite streets here.


Edit: with regards to Alberto's accusation, I go by the canon comic showings. On handbooks, sure, Thor SHOULD annihilate.

But based on comics? Story is quite different.

lol.

I agree for the most part with you on those points at least. His speed just isn't that far ahead of the elite streets, and he does have the aforementioned feats against him by streets that you mentioned.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by -Pr-
Considering your rampant anti-Superman bias, I really would think twice about hopping in to discussions like this, if I were you.

I think I'm pretty fair when it comes to judging superman power levels IMO, but I don't wanna go off topic. that's a discussion for another time

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough. Fwiw, it'll be the same with Hal Jordan (no ring) evil face

But on a serious note, it's rare for a herald of this level to have so many street speed feats against him. Especially considering speed is not 'traditionally' part of his powerset.
It only seems many because u guys r singling him out. If u take gladiator for example, he gets tagged all the time by streets or characters who do not have defined superspeed... And he's a character with a much more defined superspeed.

Superspeed was traditionally a part of his powerset. It was defined in his early days.
http://i.imgur.com/Hp8MWt3m.jpg
I think some writers just chose to ignore it or made so it is a bit more ambiguous for some reason or other. Most likely because apart from being incredibly strong and durable, he literally pulls so many powers(mostly via hammer) out of his @$$, that it would be almost impossible to tackle a story for him.
It is more evident when he is fighting streets or characters that are normally seen as having little to no threat to him. They literally have to dumb him down.
The only problem is every now and then, he performs a speed feat that perpetuates the idea that he does have remarkable superspeed. This usually when the danger gets kicked up a notch. Not inconceivable since he's performed a bunch of them in the past and that he's physically very powerful. Hence why i always say, though he's not your traditional speedster, he will perform a speed feat that can be considered far beyond what streets can normally do. He is as fast as the story needs him to be.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Frank isn't for sure. Batman is....iffy.

Unless I'm out of the loop and Frank is a meta.

Both are iffy, both are doing stuff they shouldn't be capable of, peak human or not.

Both have had their whole bodies rejuvenated and restored fairly recently, both have ridiculous feats vs. superhumans.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It only seems many because u guys r singling him out. If u take gladiator for example, he gets tagged all the time by streets or characters who do not have defined superspeed... And he's a character with a much more defined superspeed.

Superspeed was traditionally a part of his powerset. It was defined in his early days.
http://i.imgur.com/Hp8MWt3m.jpg
I think some writers just chose to ignore it or made so it is a bit more ambiguous for some reason or other. Most likely because apart from being incredibly strong and durable, he literally pulls so many powers(mostly via hammer) out of his @$$, that it would be almost impossible to tackle a story for him.
It is more evident when he is fighting streets or characters that are normally seen as having little to no threat to him. They literally have to dumb him down.
The only problem is every now and then, he performs a speed feat that perpetuates the idea that he does have remarkable superspeed. This usually when the danger gets kicked up a notch. Not inconceivable since he's performed a bunch of them in the past and that he's physically very powerful. Hence why i always say, though he's not your traditional speedster, he will perform a speed feat that can be considered far beyond what streets can normally do. He is as fast as the story needs him to be.

It still is, he just never has to use it. Also low key fandral is a speedster too but they only showed him using it a few times

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
lol.

I agree for the most part with you on those points at least. His speed just isn't that far ahead of the elite streets, and he does have the aforementioned feats against him by streets that you mentioned.

Can I count on this as being official?

Bentley
For me debating how a holding back Thor would fare with his speed vs elite streets (who can afford to go all out) it's honestly something you can argue about. As I said, the scenario 2 or 3 allow this discussion that I haven't really tackled.

But the scenario 1 begs the question of dropping someone who can hang a bit in the sun with pressure points. Thor has fought with Cap in the past in several scenarios without being defeated by straight physical damage, and Steve is stronger and is armed with a shield, you cannot come and tell me Captain America is written down so he doesn't stomp Thor. So I think there is extensive comic proof that supports that Batman and Punisher in scenario one are massively phucked.

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Can I count on this as being official?

I'm not making a ruling, if that's what you're saying.

But I don't for one second believe that Thor can fight on the same level speed-wise as someone like Superman or even Surfer.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not making a ruling, if that's what you're saying.

But I don't for one second believe that Thor can fight on the same level speed-wise as someone like Superman or even Surfer.

If not....why not?

I mean, we already have a ruling on the minimum speed of Thor (i.e he is at least faster than a human). From the responses here, its sounding like he's not 4x faster than a human....so that's a max speed right there.

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