Ivory Kings vs Strange Visitor Superman

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deft
The entire race of Ivory Kings vs Strange Visitor Superman and his avatars

Who wins?

BrolyBlack
SVS

TheHulkster
IKs

Glorificus
Ivory Kings.

Diesldude
Superman.

SquallX
Great concept of the Kings, but shitty execution.

Superman takes this casually.

TheHulkster
What feats does SVSM have? Does he do anything multiversal?

MrMind
Superman

DantasKEdc
Originally posted by TheHulkster
What feats does SVSM have? Does he do anything multiversal? svs is more powerful than mr mxy, old Gods and new gods

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DantasKEdc
svs is more powerful than mr mxy, old Gods and new gods

Scans?

Implied power doesn't count here right? Feats only. What multiversal feat does this Supes have?

BrolyBlack
^shut up already

Diesldude

Diesldude

Diesldude
Happy new year!!

Astner
Originally posted by SquallX
Great concept of the Kings, but shitty execution.
Why do people insist on calling the Beyonders "Ivory Kings?" it's like calling Dr. Doom "Rabum Alal."

SquallX

LordGod
SVS stomps the overrated Beyonders and it's not even close.

carver9
Originally posted by Glorificus
Ivory Kings.

TheHulkster

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by LordGod
SVS stomps the overrated Beyonders and it's not even close.

This

LordGod

TheHulkster
Originally posted by LordGod
What multiversal feat did the Beyonders preform?

https://imgur.com/a/4sR00Ds

LordGod
Where's the multiversal feat lol?

Classic NES
Originally posted by LordGod
Where's the multiversal feat lol?

"They built whole universes"

TheHulkster
Originally posted by LordGod
Where's the multiversal feat lol?

Building universes LOL.

Also creating an infinite number of Molecule Men, one for each universe and each destroying that universe when dying. The plan was to kill all at once to destroy the multiverse as an experiment.

xJLxKing

TheHulkster

qwertyuiop1998
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Can you provide a scan or quote stating what Mxy cannot do? Superman literally tearing a state apart that Far more volatile than fifth dimension and mxy couldn't do anything about it when he showed it to Superman as birthday gift ,
BTW, Before that he already became a fifth dimensional being or it's equal

MrMind
people scale beyonders to the marvel cosmic abstracts they beaten

SV Superman scales to Mxy, who's more powerful than the combine of all marvel abstracts

pretty simple

LordGod
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Building universes LOL.

Also creating an infinite number of Molecule Men, one for each universe and each destroying that universe when dying. The plan was to kill all at once to destroy the multiverse as an experiment. LOL indeed.

First off, that is a statement. Not a feat.

Second, "building universes" hardly qualifies as multiversal. Franklin Richards can also build universes- so is he multiversal also? laughing out loud

Galan007
Originally posted by LordGod
What multiversal feat did the Beyonders preform? The *only* feat they have that can be argued as multiversal is when they killed the multiversal iteration of LT.

...But then Starbrand destroyed one, the Ex Nihilii destroyed one, a weakened Thor+Hyperion steamrolled through droves of them, and the Owen Bomb --which only destroyed a few hundred-thousand universes(meaning its yield was infinitely below multiversal)-- wiped out the entire damn race of Beyonders.


You'll find that anyone who still tries to act like the Beyonders are irrefutably multiversal powers, typically has a very hard time accepting(or will flat-out ignore) all of their definitively sub-multiversal showings. smile

TheHulkster
Is that not PIS?

TheHulkster
Originally posted by LordGod
LOL indeed.

First off, that is a statement. Not a feat.

Second, "building universes" hardly qualifies as multiversal. Franklin Richards can also build universes- so is he multiversal also? laughing out loud

Feats are confirmed through dialogue. It such a statement was made about a DC character, you would embrace it.

And then there is providing the power to infinite MMs.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Is that not PIS?

You tell us.

There is *one* POTENTIALLY multiversal showing (killing LT), weighed against the FOUR that Galan mentioned.

So you tell us which is the outlier, the odd one out.

TheHulkster
Ivory Kings would crush this Supes.

MrMind
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Is that not PIS?

beyonders' appearances are extremely limited

so all their feats should take into consideration, not emphasizing one and ignoring the other

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You tell us.

There is *one* POTENTIALLY multiversal showing (killing LT), weighed against the FOUR that Galan mentioned.

So you tell us which is the outlier, the odd one out.

So the alleged 4 showings can only be compared to multiversal showings and nothing in-between? If those are fully powered Beyonders, that would definitely fit PIS. And that is ignoring that they are referred to as "only manifestations".

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So the alleged 4 showings can only be compared to multiversal showings and nothing in-between? If those are fully powered Beyonders, that would definitely fit PIS. And that is ignoring that they are referred to as "only manifestations".

Alleged? Did they not happen?

Well, you were the one saying that the multiple instances were all PIS.

Galan007
Originally posted by Galan007
You'll find that anyone who still tries to act like the Beyonders are irrefutably multiversal powers, typically has a very hard time accepting(or will flat-out ignore) all of their definitively sub-multiversal showings. smile

smile

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Alleged? Did they not happen?

Well, you were the one saying that the multiple instances were all PIS.

If those are fully powered Beyonders. They are referred to as only manifestations.

The difference between LT and Thor is enough for PIS. One Beyonders kill a race of Celestials. The destruction of cosmic level beings is in line with what is established with Beyonders. Difficulty with herald level beings is definitely PIS.

And SVS has no multiversal feats and barely has a feat that could even be considered universal.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
If those are fully powered Beyonders. They are referred to as only manifestations.

The difference between LT and Thor is enough for PIS. One Beyonders kill a race of Celestials. The destruction of cosmic level beings is in line with what is established with Beyonders. Difficulty with herald level beings is definitely PIS.

And SVS has no multiversal feats and barely has a feat that could even be considered universal.

So you're ignoring Starbrand and Ex Nihilo? Cool. Seems difficulty with herald level beings is definitely standard for then....

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're ignoring Starbrand and Ex Nihilo? Cool. Seems difficulty with herald level beings is definitely standard for then....

Then success against abstract level beings is standard. Which level is he closer to being pitted against here?

Genii96
Entire race? This is a stomp

celeyhyga17
IK

SquallX

Galan007
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Then success against abstract level beings is standard. Which level is he closer to being pitted against here? Killing the Celestials, Eternity/Infinity, and the rest of the cosmic hierarchy does not make the Beyonders multiversal, though. Killing LT is the *only* showing they have that potentially qualifies as such.

...But then you have the entire race of them getting killed by the Owen Bomb(and as mentioned, the Bomb's cumulative output/yield was FAAAAAR below multiversal), getting destroyed by Starbrand and the Ex Nihilii, and several of them getting streamrolled by Thor+Hyperion.

The Beyonders have high-highs, painfully low-lows, and almost nothing in between to help balance the scales.

TheHulkster
Those are all high end comics. All dominated. This, their record against high end comics is perfect. If they have some vulnerability to herald level characters, that would have no bearing on fights against abstract levels.

Is SVS below or above Celestial levelon your opinion?

Isn't the creation of the originals Owen bomb multiversal?

TheHulkster
That should be "cosmics". Is there a reason I can't edit?

SquallX

celeyhyga17
Beyonders and their ilk seem to play with lesser beings for almost no reason at all. All the shiet they put the multiverse through is all a game.

They sit outside of evrything and literally just play.

TheHulkster

TheHulkster
Question. Is the Eternity that the Beyonder's defeat the multiversal Eternity?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Can you read the post you are responding to? Your response isn't even related to it.

If your hero is celestial level or above, then how Beyonders do against herald levelers has nothing to do with how they do against him since they do better against high ends. That's the point.

This aside from your conjecture.

Batman does well in physical combat against Wonder Woman, Mongul, Lobo, Damage, Grundy. Takes punches from bloodlusted Martian Manhunter, survives amped Shazam lightning, etc. Yet struggles against Two-Face, Penguin, Joker, Red Hood etc.

According to your post's logic, if I put him up against Colossus, or Thing, or Abomination, or even Hulk - him struggling with random street hoodlums and/or Penguin should be ignored, because the Marvel opponents are closer to his high ends.

I mean, it's a brave tactic. I would support it thumb up

Sin I AM
I think eternity is multiversal currently but has not always been so. Iirc at one point each universe had an individual eternity.

TheHulkster

TheHulkster
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think eternity is multiversal currently but has not always been so. Iirc at one point each universe had an individual eternity.

I think that the existence of both is what's established now:

https://i.imgur.com/QJBK9aR.jpg

I also think that this applies to LT

SquallX
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Can you read the post you are responding to? Your response isn't even related to it.

If your hero is celestial level or above, then how Beyonders do against herald levelers has nothing to do with how they do against him since they do better against high ends. That's the point.

This aside from your conjecture.

Do you know Mxy is? This version of Superman was above Mxy!

Let that sink in for just one second.

Also, your logic on the Beyonders lows is stupid.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by SquallX
Do you know Mxy is? This version of Superman was above Mxy!

Let that sink in for just one second.

Also, your logic on the Beyonders lows is stupid.

Where is he stated or shown above Mxy?

Stoic
Originally posted by Galan007
Killing the Celestials, Eternity/Infinity, and the rest of the cosmic hierarchy does not make the Beyonders multiversal, though. Killing LT is the *only* showing they have that potentially qualifies as such.

...But then you have the entire race of them getting killed by the Owen Bomb(and as mentioned, the Bomb's cumulative output/yield was FAAAAAR below multiversal), getting destroyed by Starbrand and the Ex Nihilii, and several of them getting streamrolled by Thor+Hyperion.

The Beyonders have high-highs, painfully low-lows, and almost nothing in between to help balance the scales.

Very true. However, Starbrand is well above Herald level. Just wanted to clear that up.

DarkSaint85

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yup, so I am happy that you too think Batman is herald level. You DO think that, right?

Next step: we examine Superman's record against trans and abstract level threats smile

That's a heck of a dodge.

DarkSaint85
Agreed, you posted a heck of a dodge lmao.

So again: based on your post's logic, is Batman herald level? And would you agree that when placing him in threads with herald characters, his showings against say Two Face and fat little Penguin should be discounted?

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed, you posted a heck of a dodge lmao.

So again: based on your post's logic, is Batman herald level? And would you agree that when placing him in threads with herald characters, his showings against say Two Face and fat little Penguin should be discounted?

You just gave one of those "I know you are but what am I" responses LOL.

Batman's performances against herald levelers only, absent prep, would not put him close to herald level. So continue to discard Penguin under such circumstances as you have been. It makes the most sense. Similar for Black Panther, Cap, etc.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
You just gave one of those "I know you are but what am I" responses LOL.

Batman's performances against herald levelers only, absent prep, would not put him close to herald level. So continue to discard Penguin under such circumstances as you have been. It makes the most sense. Similar for Black Panther, Cap, etc.

...that's precisely what you did. I asked a question, and you answered with, well, YOU say XYZ lol, instead of actually answering the question.

Batman took on Zoom (who hits harder than Superman) armed with only a piece of metal.

Took punches from a bloodlusted, amped WW without his suit on whilst injured. Then in another instance, was fighting a bloodlusted Eclipso WW.

Took punches from Mongul without prep (Mongul, who doesn't exactly hold back).

Took punches from a bloodlusted MMH without prep.

Took punches and was dancing around Damage WITHOUT prep.

Took an amped bloodlusted Shazams lightning without prep.

None of the instances I mentioned actually had prep lmao. So iyo, where does he sit tier wise?

Oh yeah, and forgot Lobo lol.

None of the characters I've named are street tier, right? So his survival record against heralds is perfect - none of them have killed him, even without prep.

So again, now that I have educated you on the lack of prep: where does he sit?

DarkSaint85
For your reading pleasure:

Zoom (the guy who blitzes Flashes for fun, ACTIVELY trying to KO Batman, who he caught COMPLETELY by surprise):
https://i.postimg.cc/vmxF4NV7/RCO013.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/KzXXBDP6/RCO021.jpg

WW (who had the GoW amp, was bloodlusted, and Bruce was severely injured, and without his suit - literally sucker punched):
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11123/111234294/4602976-8440152492-41490.jpg

Damage (who isn't exactly holding back, and only broke three ribs with his punches. despite being able to stalemate Superman and overload Parasite, and was the toughest opponent WW had ever faced - not to mention punches harder than Doomsday):
https://i.postimg.cc/505rvdNz/13.jpg

I can go on, but you get the gist. Batman had zero prep in these three instances for his opponents. Was sucker punched in two of them, and didn't even have his gear in one of them.

According to your logic, we should ignore all of his other showings, right? Because that is what you are doing with the Beyonders. Ignoring their less than stellar showings, in favour of their single showing.

Edit: one more:

Against King Shazam, who is bloodlusted and amped, WITHOUT even using his own gear (IOW, what he picked up - so ZERO prep):

https://i.postimg.cc/xdv5pGDD/10.jpg

And this is just in the last couple of years or so. I'm not even digging that deep.

DarkSaint85
Though tbf, he needed Kryp tech to heal from that lightning, and had his heart stopped.....I got way too excited lol.

TheHulkster
LOL. I thought you were going to post him defeating upper tiers? You're posting scans of him surviving being brutalized and being to some degree effective. And he doesn't just pick up something. He uses his jet to propel him at Billy with a batarang while Billy is engaged with Superman who he is about to be stab with the other batarang. And it accomplishes nothing beyond saving Superman. You included a double team LOL.

Comics have established that Batman and his like will be effective against top tiers to an unrealistic degree and above his effectiveness with other streets. So it is reasonable to base his performance against top tiers of both companies on how he performs against just them in the books regardless of how he does against streets.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Though tbf, he needed Kryp tech to heal from that lightning, and had his heart stopped.....I got way too excited lol.

Saw that. Batman is still shown well below those guys and there is some level of consistency that is totally absent in the Beyonders example. Marvel has touched on the notion of cosmics having trouble with lower level beings due to not being prepared for their simplicity or something. An attempt to give reasoning for such inconsistency.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
LOL. I thought you were going to post him defeating upper tiers? You're posting scans of him surviving being brutalized and being to some degree effective. And he doesn't just pick up something. He uses his jet to propel him at Billy with a batarang while Billy is engaged with Superman who he is about to be stab with the other batarang. And it accomplishes nothing beyond saving Superman. You included a double team LOL.

Comics have established that Batman and his like will be effective against top tiers to an unrealistic degree and above his effectiveness with other streets. So it is reasonable to base his performance against top tiers of both companies on how he performs against just them in the books regardless of how he does against streets.

Its not his jet. He didn't even bring it. The jet belongs to the Batman who Laughs.

Iow, no prep. Double team or no, heralds who can move mountains would make humans a pink smear on the pavement.

So my point is, against heralds, he's got near or perfect survival.. But as you say, we should disregard his showings. I'm perfectly ok with that, as I have said before.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its not his jet. He didn't even bring it. The jet belongs to the Batman who Laughs.

Iow, no prep. Double team or no, heralds who can move mountains would make humans a pink smear on the pavement.

So my point is, against heralds, he's got near or perfect survival.. But as you say, we should disregard his showings. I'm perfectly ok with that, as I have said before.

So he uses someone else's gear right?

Cool. No more using Mongoose etc., against Thor when Thor is pitted against a top tier right?

DarkSaint85
Well am sure you have TONS of Thor's speed feats against heralds/abstracts etc - make a thread with all of his high showings.

Oh wait. That's what the Thor/street thread was all about. It used all of Thor's HIGH END feats lmao. You remember what the thread actually was about right?

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well am sure you have TONS of Thor's speed feats against heralds/abstracts etc - make a thread with all of his high showings.

Oh wait. That's what the Thor/street thread was all about. It used all of Thor's HIGH END feats lmao. You remember what the thread actually was about right?

Thor is practically never out speeded by heralds and cosmics.

I'll have to look. On the one vs Logan and Punisher, your entire argument was based on his fights with streets and their fights with heralds.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
So he uses someone else's gear right?

The point was that he had ZERO prep. You were saying he had prep.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Thor is practically never out speeded by heralds and cosmics.

I'll have to look. On the one vs Logan and Punisher, your entire argument was based on his fights with streets and their fights with heralds.

Which was a direct result of the Thor showing relative to streets.

And the next important step - Superman's showings against cosmics and abstracts.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
Comics have established that Batman and his like will be effective against top tiers to an unrealistic degree and above his effectiveness with other streets. So it is reasonable to base his performance against top tiers of both companies on how he performs against just them in the books regardless of how he does against streets.

OK. So we have herald level Batman (I mean, he still loses, so let's make him a Low Herald). I'm OK with this.

MrMind
Those Batman scans are Dorksaint's yugioh cards every now and then he will whip it up

celeyhyga17
lulz
Quite troo

DarkSaint85
My Blue Eyes White Dragon ownz all.

TheHulkster
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OK. So we have herald level Batman (I mean, he still loses, so let's make him a Low Herald). I'm OK with this.

And "herald level" Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Moon Knight, etc. ( can't let DC bias take over).

Diesldude

TheHulkster

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by TheHulkster
And "herald level" Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Moon Knight, etc. ( can't let DC bias take over).

If that is what you want, sure.

MrMind
Originally posted by TheHulkster
And "herald level" Captain America, Black Panther, Daredevil, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Moon Knight, etc. ( can't let DC bias take over).

what kind of knee jerk reaction is this

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