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So, pre-2014, it was T-Canon. But then after Fantasy Flight published a sourcebook saying that there were tapes made by the Republic to help the war effort which were altered by the Empire, did it get downgraded to S-Canon?

I mean it makes sense; it seemed like they were going for a propaganda tape kind of feel, for whatever reason.

And why do you think Leland Chee didn't want to address its canonocity until after it was over? What do you think he would have said if TCW had ended while Legends was still canon, considering the numer of fans who hated the retcons?

so....anybody?

I'd say that like the OT and the PT, TCW exist in both continuities. Many of TCW characters, such as Savage, appear in many EU material, for example.

The way I view it is kind of like how time streams were described in Avengers: Endgame, where a fixed event can have different outcomes, streams of time branching off into different directions.

I'd describe the PT, the OT and TCW as all being one big fixed event with two different connecting time streams, one that stays course, which is canon, and then one that branches off into another direction, which is Legends.

Hopefully that answers your question, because TBH, I'm not too sure I understand it. (probably my bad)

Originally posted by Zentrex
So, pre-2014, it was T-Canon. But then after Fantasy Flight published a sourcebook saying that there were tapes made by the Republic to help the war effort which were altered by the Empire, did it get downgraded to S-Canon?

Pretty sure that is referring to the Genndy Series rather than Filoni's.

Anyway, C-canon can't overwrite T-canon.

Oh, and wasn't the concept of "T-Canon" removed by the Force and Destiny Rulebook or Sourcebook or whatever it was?

I mean, Leland Chee did only use T-Canon as a temporary solution and said that he would sort it out properly after the series finished. Problem is, it never got a chance to. So now, what do we at KMC want to consider TCW?

Originally posted by Dominis
I'd say that like the OT and the PT, TCW exist in both continuities. Many of TCW characters, such as Savage, appear in many EU material, for example.

The way I view it is kind of like how time streams were described in Avengers: Endgame, where a fixed event can have different outcomes, streams of time branching off into different directions.

I'd describe the PT, the OT and TCW as all being one big fixed event with two different connecting time streams, one that stays course, which is canon, and then one that branches off into another direction, which is Legends.

Hopefully that answers your question, because TBH, I'm not too sure I understand it. (probably my bad)

Well, yes, there are materials which are both Legends and Canon, like the original 6 movies, the first 6 seasons of the Clone Wars, and the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic. But I want to know whether TCW is T-Canon (if there is one anymore), C-Canon, or S-Canon in Legends.

I know Disney or any official source doesn't care enough about Legends to really give us an answer, but I just want to have one as a community. What do we all think?

Originally posted by Zentrex
Well, yes, there are materials which are both Legends and Canon, like the original 6 movies, the first 6 seasons of the Clone Wars, and the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic. But I want to know whether TCW is T-Canon (if there is one anymore), C-Canon, or S-Canon in Legends.



Well its certainly not S-Canon.

Its pretty much on par with the movies. Like ares said the old C-Canon stuff cant override it. Like Dominis stated, too much of Legends was based around it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well its certainly not S-Canon. Its pretty much on par with the movies.

Is there a reason you're so certain?
I know that that's how it was in the old canon, but even then it was meant to be a temporary solution. Is there any official source that makes it still part of Legends?

The only thing I can think of is the "COMPNOR editing" sentence in Force and Destiny Sourcebook 1, which pretty much stated that the TCW episodes were just tapes made by the republic to portray what actually took place.

If there is a source or statement by Leland Chee I don't know about, could you direct me to it?



Wasn't there a lot more that wasn't based around it? Unless I'm mistaken, it was sparsely referenced outside of its own supplemental books and comics, which could also be considered about as accurate as the show itself.

And if it is demoted to the status of S-Canon, then references to it in other material shouldn't be a problem, since you could say that those specific things were the way they were mentioned in those other C-Canon installments.

Any particular reason to not make it S-Canon instead?



C-Canon, but only TO something that's T-Canon? I don't understand.



So the material that referenced a T-Canon source has be S-Canon? I'm very confused? Do you see C-Canon as being a different continuity than T/G-Canon? Because I've been thinking of it as one continuity with certain installments being able to override what's seen in other installments of lower canonicity in the case of a contradiction.

Originally posted by Zentrex


Is there a reason you're so certain?
I know that that's how it was in the old canon, but even then it was meant to be a temporary solution. Is there any official source that makes it still part of Legends?

The only thing I can think of is the "COMPNOR editing" sentence in Force and Destiny Sourcebook 1, which pretty much stated that the TCW episodes were just tapes made by the republic to portray what actually took place.

If there is a source or statement by Leland Chee I don't know about, could you direct me to it?




What is Legends? Its the old continuity which included TCW seasons 1-5.

Plenty of Legends material based around those 5 seasons as well.

Really not sure what there is to dispute here. Just because theres contradictions. Lucas work always contradicted the EU. But the EU always chose to follow what was set out by Lucas regardless.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Any particular reason to not make it S-Canon instead?



C-Canon, but only TO something that's T-Canon? I don't understand.



So the material that referenced a T-Canon source has be S-Canon? I'm very confused? Do you see C-Canon as being a different continuity than T/G-Canon? Because I've been thinking of it as one continuity with certain installments being able to override what's seen in other installments of lower canonicity in the case of a contradiction.

Yes because those works are directly going off from TCW so those comics could be looked at similar to the novels and comics etc found in C-Canon.

I do because TCW cannot fit into the C-Canon timeline prior to 08, hence why I see it as separate because it makes it easier to understandstand. Continuity Canon, the comics expand on the show, much like C-Canon did with the movies.

Example the Clone Wars campaign guide references Clone Assassins from the ROTS game and Commando novels. Yet the book also has TCW references to it, so you go S-Canon take what is needed and dismiss the rest.

I mean if you wanna see it as one more power to you. I don’t for the sake of the timeline and not wanting to dismiss all that hard work authors and devs did for all those comics/games/books that came out prior to 08.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Well, yes, there are materials which are both Legends and Canon, like the original 6 movies, the first 6 seasons of the Clone Wars, and the Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic. But I want to know whether TCW is T-Canon (if there is one anymore), C-Canon, or S-Canon in Legends.

I know Disney or any official source doesn't care enough about Legends to really give us an answer, but I just want to have one as a community. What do we all think?


If we treat legends as if it still has a canon hierarchy then TCW will be higher than any other source except the 6 movies, which means any source suggesting that it isn't canon is wrong. I mean, that's the way it would be if Disney never purchased SW. And for the sake of legends forums, I don't see why we should change that. If we do, then people are going to try to pick and choose what they view as fitting in legends and what doesn't, and everyone won't agree, and it will create a mess. So the best bet is to stick to the way it was, IMO. (For instance, in a legends debate, I may want to use Maul's feats from TCW, and then what? You're going to tell me I can't because you decide to not acknowledge the events in TCW as being apart of legends continuity? Can you really argue that with so much TCW legends tie-ins?)

Otherwise, you're right, Lucasfilm doesn't care about any canon hierarchy we place on legends. Legends is just legends to them, all equally non-canon now.

^ Exactly right

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yes because those works are directly going off from TCW so those comics could be looked at similar to the novels and comics etc found in C-Canon.

I mean if you wanna see it as one more power to you. I don't for the sake of the timeline and not wanting to dismiss all that hard work authors and devs did for all those comics/games/books that came out prior to 08.

Makes sense.



Actually, I totally would argue that. Legends makes much more sense with Maul never having returned. And it's not like changing something like that would destroy all continuity, especially if you go by the whole "COMPNOR" theory.



Fair enough, though.

I guess it is what it is. I'd rather use the continuity retconned by TCW, but we'll just cross that bridge when we get to it.

The old EU was being continuously retconned. First by the Prequels (even up to ROTS), and later by TCW. That was nothing new, and was the whole reason for having Levels of Canonicity at that time.

Why do you take TCW to be Lucas canon?

I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm just curious as to why, because I have so many reasons not to believe that it is:

Lucas' involvement alone can't bring an installment into the same level of canon as the movies. Lucas was also involved with the Holiday Special, the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, and the "Battle for Endor" movies.

If you go by the "T-Canon" concept that Leland Chee introduced, I'm pretty sure he said that that was only true until the series ended. Which sounds to me like he was going to demote it afterwards.

In my mind, the EU outgrew Lucas wherever it could. Authors tried to make it all fit since that's what the fans liked, so whenever they had the opportunity they would find and build around any contradictions. TCW was reaching for an audience that didn't care so much for that, so it could afford to defy that rule.
I don't think that makes it the same as the Prequels contradicting Boba Fett's backstory.

@Zentrex, do you have a quote about that's what Chee said what was gonna happen?

But on a note, while I don't really debate much around the CW era or rather Force Users so either way this doesn't really affect me but.

Why do we need TCW in both Continuities anyway? If anything, it's just making 3 separate Continuities like so.

The Movies + TCW

The Movies + C-Canon

The Movies + Disney Canon which includes TCW.

I know what some might say and it probably mostly pertains to debating in battles...but I'm not really talking about that.

Which something else I thought of, if Lucas himself didn't pay much mind to C-canon content apart from a few things he picked from it. Then why wouldn't TCW be within it's own continuity in Legends anyway and why would we try to mesh C-canon with it, when it clearly doesn't work?

I mean TCW is already in the current Canon, so what exactly is being lost here?

Originally posted by Zentrex
Why do you take TCW to be Lucas canon?

I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm just curious as to why, because I have so many reasons not to believe that it is:

Lucas' involvement alone can't bring an installment into the same level of canon as the movies. Lucas was also involved with the Holiday Special, the Droids and Ewoks cartoons, and the "Battle for Endor" movies.

If you go by the "T-Canon" concept that Leland Chee introduced, I'm pretty sure he said that that was only true until the series ended. Which sounds to me like he was going to demote it afterwards.

In my mind, the EU outgrew Lucas wherever it could. Authors tried to make it all fit since that's what the fans liked, so whenever they had the opportunity they would find and build around any contradictions. TCW was reaching for an audience that didn't care so much for that, so it could afford to defy that rule.
I don't think that makes it the same as the Prequels contradicting Boba Fett's backstory.


I dont ever remember Leland Chee saying the T-level was temporary. And if it was going to change To anything it was hinted to be pretty much G-Canon.

The reason I call it Lucas canon, is because it was Canon to Lucas himself, and he spent mad hours overseeing that show. Why else do you think Disney didnt scrap it with the rest of Legends? They literally gave that reason in their initial canon announcement.

Lucas must have insisted to Disney that TCW is an essential part of Star Wars Canon.


Originally posted by Zenwolf

Why do we need TCW in both Continuities anyway? If anything, it's just making 3 separate Continuities like so.

1)The Movies + TCW

2)The Movies + C-Canon

3)The Movies + Disney Canon which includes TCW

Because IT IS part of both continuities. Just like the Original 6 films. End of. Theres no debating that.

But youre right there are 3 continuities.

1) Would be Lucas canon

2) Legends/Old EU

3) Disney canon

And like the Prequels, TCW are part of all 3 continuities. Because 1) would be the basis on which any legit SW continuity must be based around.

Originally posted by Zenwolf

I mean TCW is already in the current Canon, so what exactly is being lost here?

Thats like saying the Prequels are already part of current canon, so why not scrap them from Legends.

TCW was a big part of Legends. From Maul and Savage, to the Ones, it simply integrated itself into too much of Legends to just ignore.

Originally posted by Darth Thor


Thats like saying the Prequels are already part of current canon, so why not scrap them from Legends.

TCW was a big part of Legends. From Maul and Savage, to the Ones, it simply integrated itself into too much of Legends to just ignore.

But weren't The Ones already in the Canon before TCW? A bit they were known more as just The Celestials/Architechs and just mentioned, but even still.

Edit: Oh so we are in agreement, ok.

Though I'm not really sure what is lost for Maul if we take away his appearances in TCW. I never really saw him as much a difference, other than he used a one blade and had cybernetic legs.

But then with all the duels that went on in TCW, I felt like everyone was basically the same apart from the few moments where an advantage was gained. Or unless you knew that someone would logically be outclassed.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
@Zentrex, do you have a quote about that's what Chee said what was gonna happen?

I actually don't. I've been trying to find it for several days now, because I distinctly remember hearing something about how Chee was going to figure out how TCW fit into the EU after it was over. Maybe I dreamed it, it was a long time ago.



I just want one continuity to be consistent with itself as best as possible, and I think that's easier to do when you have that original clone wars continuity from before Filoni.
But then I also loved The Clone Wars and its additions to the lore.
I thought that the perfect way to get the best of both worlds was having TCW be S-Canon, so we could have all the lore that didn't contradict existing material, and exclude all the lore which did.



You could do that, but I want to have each continuity be as full of installments but still as self-consistent as possible. TCW could be molded to fit other Legends stories, and vice versa. That would satisfy my want.

I'm not a fight debater either, but there is important lore that TCW included, like Ahsoka, the Toydarians, the Zillo Beast, etc., which could be important in discussions about hypothetical scenarios that take place in Legends.



Well, see, I don't think of Legends as having "separate" continuities, as much as one continuity which gives certain installments more "authority" than others.
If either TCW was not molded to fit other Legends, or other Legends molded to fit TCW, we'd lose some important lore when we're discussing any hypothetical in Legends.
It's less about what is part of a continuity, more about how it fits in with and affects other things within the same continuity.
It's not what Lucas wanted, but if we took every idea that he wanted to be official, we'd be living with a very different franchise.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The reason I call it Lucas canon, is because it was Canon to Lucas himself, and he spent mad hours overseeing that show. Why else do you think Disney didnt scrap it with the rest of Legends? They literally gave that reason in their initial canon announcement.

Lucas must have insisted to Disney that TCW is an essential part of Star Wars Canon.

I see.

BTW, I agree with all the points you made about Zenwolf's post.

But @Trax, TCW wasn't molded to fit with what was previously established, they essentially started off with a clean slate, it's just the other material that came out that tried to work within C-canon. But then as you said, for those things it can be used as somewhat S-Canon.

The show itself could give less a care about what happened prior. I mean you could probably fit a few things and make it work, but some stuff just really can't fit into C-canon timeline.

Again though, it doesn't really affect me much. I'm more GCW era anyway, even then what CW era stuff I do know, TCW is largely irrelevant.

yes, yeah, you're right.

I'm probably still going to consider it S-canon in my personal headcanon, though. We'll see how this impacts my answers to future threads.