Force Ghosts??

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Eli Vanto
So does every Jedi who has learned this ability have to go through the same trials and training that Yoda did with the Priestesses?

Galan007
Not the same trials, no.

The trials that the Priestesses put Yoda through were done solely to make sure that he was worthy of learning how to preserve his essence after death, and effectively become immortal. Once Yoda successfully passed their trials, the Priestesses taught him the actual ability.

Yoda then taught Kenobi the ability, then it was passed to Luke, who passed it to Leia and Ben. Not sure who taught Anakin/Vader how to do it, but whatevs. /shrug


It's also worth mentioning that the Priestesses stated that Yoda: "Will teach one that will save the universe from a great imbalance. For this, the great gift will be his." That is the main reason they agreed to teach him in the first place.

Eli Vanto
Do you think that quote refers to Luke or Anakin?

Also I do wonder WHEN Anakin would have possibly learned that ability in canon??

Galan007
Could be either of them, I guess. Technically, both were essential in bringing balance to the Force during RotJ(short-lived as that "balance" was.)

No clue when Vader would have learned the ability. Logically, it would've had to be sometime between him throwing Palpatine down the reactor shaft, and him 'dying' in Luke's arms... How in the f*ck he was able to master such an advanced Jedi ability in a matter of minutes is another story...

Eli Vanto
thumb up

I'm also curious why Qui-Gon was never allowed to retain his full body and identity after death?? Did the Priestesses just not deem him worthy or?? confused

Galan007
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
thumb up

I'm also curious why Qui-Gon was never allowed to retain his full body and identity after death?? Did the Priestesses just not deem him worthy or?? confused Qui-Gon did learn how to fully manifest his body in canon:

Eli Vanto
That's really cool actually. I definitely like how the process of becoming a force ghost is described there. big grin

Makes it sound like they can almost become real people. confused

Galan007
I mean, not exactly 'real' in the 100% physical sense, but certainly real enough that they can directly interact with their physical surroundings.

In the scene above, for example, Qui-Gon's spirit became so corporeal that he could actually smell the things in his vicinity.


Then of course there's this:

https://i.imgur.com/KCEzr7c.jpg



...And you also have Yoda's spirit summoning lightning, and smacking Luke on the head with his staff.

Zenwolf
I really just do not like that..

Eli Vanto
What don't you like?

That a force ghost can apparently have a lightsaber battle if they wanted to? stick out tongue

Zentrex
It's stupid because now death doesn't mean anything for Jedi.

Psychotron
It also raises the question why the Jedi spirits didn't deal with Vader/Palpatine/Snoke/Kylo instead of making Luke and Rey do it.

Galan007
There must be some sort of rule that spirits must abide by.

They can train/motivate the living, and help guide their courses, but they cannot directly interfere.

srug

Psychotron
Who knows? Not Disney, that's for sure.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
There must be some sort of rule that spirits must abide by.

They can train/motivate the living, and help guide their courses, but they cannot directly interfere.

srug

I mean isn't that directly interfering with holding the lightsaber out to give it to someone?

Should been like

"Oh you forgot your lightsaber? You need another lightsaber? TOO BAD YOUR **** IS GRASS NOW!"

Galan007
Lol, yeah. I mean, technically a spirit just giving some friendly advice to a Jedi would constitute "direct interference"... From a certain point of view.

Seems like a spirit's ability to directly interfere stops just short of them picking up a damn lightsaber and striking down the Jedi's opponent for them.

Zentrex
Maybe they chose not to interfere? It's possible they were more concerned about the futures of the force users than the political future of the galaxy.

ares834
"If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere."

Zentrex
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, but...

maybe that's only true from a certain point of view?

I'm not okay with it, I hate it, I'm just trying to find a better justification than "they can't interfere directly."

Galan007
I mean, if a spirit *could* directly interfere and actually help the Jedi fight their opponent or w/e, they certainly *would*(especially given what has been at stake in the past.)

Thanks to the ST, we now know that spirits can interact with the physical world on a level that none of us likely ever imagined(or wanted to see.) Logically speaking, it is entirely in the realm of possibility for them to: pick up a saber and have a full-scale duel with a Sith. OR TK throw ships at them. OR zap them with actual lightning.

So there must be some sort of cosmic 'rules' in place that they HAVE to abide by. One of which being that they cannot directly interfere to such an extent where they are actually fighting a Jedi's battles for them. Otherwise the immortal spirits of Yoda, Kenobi, Qui-Gon, Anakin, and Luke would have simply teamed up against Palpatine and destroyed him without Rey ever having to lift a finger. /shrug

Eli Vanto
On this same topic;

Why didn't the Daughter disappear into the force when she was killed? Seems like a ability most Jedi are capable of these days. Even Leia did it and she only had like a year of training.

And there were obviously none greater in the light side then the Daughter.

Galan007
I mean, the Force Spirit ability isn't about how powerful you are with the light side -- it's about completely and utterly knowing yourself on a fundamental level, and fully embracing the Living Force... It's also an ability that even the Jedi believed was impossible, until Qui-Gon's spirit came to Yoda and told him about the Priestesses.

Perhaps it also has to do with The Ones solely embodying the Cosmic Force... Granted, the Living Force feeds/powers the greater Cosmic Force, but they are still treated as two different aspects.

The only issue with that is The Father, as he disappeared/sublimated into the Force after his death... So he clearly knew the ability, but evidently just never saw fit to teach The Daughter how to do so, despite the untold thousands of years they spent in isolation together.

That being said, I suppose you could argue that The Daughter may have achieved a resurrection of sorts, in the form of Morai. /shrug

Eli Vanto
Makes sense. It just seems like a God of the force should have known that ability.

Sheev
Daughter should have known the ability IMO. Force god and all that.

But her being tied to the cosmic force and not the living force does make sense for why she didn't know how to preserve her identity after death.

Eli Vanto
Originally posted by Galan007
No clue when Vader would have learned the ability. Logically, it would've had to be sometime between him throwing Palpatine down the reactor shaft, and him 'dying' in Luke's arms... How in the f*ck he was able to master such an advanced Jedi ability in a matter of minutes is another story... so ive been looking for an answer but can't find one.

I take it that is was never explained how or when Anakin learned to become a ghost?

Galan007
How or when? No.

All we know is that Yoda taught him the ability:
https://i.imgur.com/WnJHmh8.jpg

Scizard
Yoda. What the, how does that work then.

Galan007
I would assume that he taught Vader after he died(similarly to how Qui-Gon learned)... Except Vader evidently mastered the ability very quickly, given that he was already appearing as a full-fledged spirit at the end of RotJ. ermm

Scizard
erm

Sheev
A bit random, but how did the Priestesses know that Yoda would teach this ability to one who would save the universe from a great imbalance? I presume they can accurately see the future?

Galan007
Spirits are non-linear entities, and seem to perceive all of time simultaneously... Kind of like Dr. Manhattan.

Sheev
Ah okay. Guessing that was mentioned in FACPOV?

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