The Rise of Skywalker (novelization)

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Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/oTGUdhCl.jpg

Galan007
Excerpt from the opening scene:


So it is essentially canonizing this scene/creature that was revealed in the concept art:
http://i.imgur.com/SO8mL76l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/r7eovBVl.jpg



I'm just hoping that all of the extra content this novel is supposed to have will flesh out the story a lot more and make it more cohesive.

Eli Vanto
"the book features expanded scenes and content not seen in theaters, as well as a few surprises -- all culled from deleted scenes, never-before-seen material, and input from the filmmakers."

Awesome! Once again supplementary material will help salvage the movies. big grin

xPRIMEx
So stupid they have to wait til the book comes out to tell the complete story

Galan007
It's sad, but that's what I've come to expect with the ST.

Zentrex
It's not like the PT was any different.

I do wonder what keeps going wrong, though. It's not like they don't have talent behind the movies, but it's always the books that are good and the movies that are bad (original trilogy notwithstanding). It might be the vision being spread thin by too many people. That was definitely the reason the ST failed. If they'd had one vision, the ideas could have worked out. Instead, they pop out of nowhere and create a retconned mess.

xPRIMEx
Originally posted by Zentrex
It's not like the PT was any different.

I do wonder what keeps going wrong, though. It's not like they don't have talent behind the movies, but it's always the books that are good and the movies that are bad (original trilogy notwithstanding). It might be the vision being spread thin by too many people. That was definitely the reason the ST failed. If they'd had one vision, the ideas could have worked out. Instead, they pop out of nowhere and create a retconned mess.
The PT did a much better job in terms of telling the complete story.

Zentrex
Eh. They sort of had gutter bumpers. They knew they had to get Anakin from being a Jedi to joining the dark side. The Sequel Trilogy had no idea what it wanted to accomplish.

Galan007
For all its flaws, the PT still accomplished telling the story GL wanted to tell. The supplementary material surrounding it, while nice to have, wasn't needed in order for the story to be cohesive and at least make sense.

The ST, however, is just a jumbled clusterf*ck across the board, with no clear direction other than #TheForceIsFemale. It literally *needs* this added content just to make the story somewhat palatable.

Galan007
Even the comic book adaption will include extra content, lol:

http://i.imgur.com/RXISjmpl.jpg



They're going full damage-control mode here...

Total Warrior

xPRIMEx
Originally posted by Galan007
Even the comic book adaption will include extra content, lol:

http://i.imgur.com/RXISjmpl.jpg



They're going full damage-control mode here...
Nice lol. When does that come out?

Galan007
Sometime in June. The exact day hasn't been listed yet.

Galan007
Leaked page from the novel seems to confirm that Palpatine's spirit was inhabiting a clone body, and was literally breaking down due to his immense power(more or less identical to DE):
https://i.imgur.com/mAMha43.jpg

Zenwolf
I just....I really was joking around that RoS was a watered down DE, but now...guess it's not a joke anymore. I mean, they took a storyline that only fit within the context of the OT, but made it worse and yet they still acknowledged the PT which doesn't fit with DE.

Then again this whole trilogy doesn't add up so I guess it's par the course.

Galan007
Yeah, the concept is literally plucked straight from DE. Can't say it really bothers me, because at least we have a definitive answer now(assuming that excerpt is legit, of course, and I'm 99.9% sure it is.)

Sheev
Originally posted by Galan007
Leaked page from the novel seems to confirm that Palpatine's spirit was inhabiting a clone body, and was literally breaking down due to his immense power(more or less identical to DE):
https://i.imgur.com/mAMha43.jpg Looks like the novel is going to add more context to the story in the first few chapters then the entire movie did laughing out loud

Zentrex
Originally posted by Zenwolf
I just....I really was joking around that RoS was a watered down DE, but now...guess it's not a joke anymore. I mean, they took a storyline that only fit within the context of the OT, but made it worse and yet they still acknowledged the PT which doesn't fit with DE.

Then again this whole trilogy doesn't add up so I guess it's par the course.
Why do you say that the PT doesn't fit with DE?

xPRIMEx
The novel confirms that Palpatine was a clone
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/03/01/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-novel-reveals-palpatine-was-a-clone-raising-serious-questions/amp/

Eli Vanto
Originally posted by Galan007
Leaked page from the novel seems to confirm that Palpatine's spirit was inhabiting a clone body, and was literally breaking down due to his immense power(more or less identical to DE):
https://i.imgur.com/mAMha43.jpg Originally posted by xPRIMEx
The novel confirms that Palpatine was a clone
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/03/01/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-novel-reveals-palpatine-was-a-clone-raising-serious-questions/amp/ Well at least it's not ambiguous anymore.

Now I'm just wondering if it will mention anything else about his cloned bodies or if that blurb is it?

And also, I wonder if it will have a blurb about Rey eradicating his spirit with her final oneness lightning block? If not, then Sidious can for sure come back at some point in the future.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, the concept is literally plucked straight from DE. Can't say it really bothers me, because at least we have a definitive answer now(assuming that excerpt is legit, of course, and I'm 99.9% sure it is.)


Yeah but isnt this retconning what the VD claimed just a couple of months back, about retrieving his body (which is a good retcon, because that was retarded).


Originally posted by Eli Vanto

And also, I wonder if it will have a blurb about Rey eradicating his spirit with her final oneness lightning block? If not, then Sidious can for sure come back at some point in the future.


Well he wont, because this was the end of the Skywalker saga.

But youre right they still have to address how is death was any different this time.

xPRIMEx

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
Leaked page from the novel seems to confirm that Palpatine's spirit was inhabiting a clone body, and was literally breaking down due to his immense power(more or less identical to DE):
https://i.imgur.com/mAMha43.jpg

laughing out loud

How original. Why even bother retconning everything if you are just going to tell the same stories but significantly worse?

**** Disney.

Galan007
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but isnt this retconning what the VD claimed just a couple of months back, about retrieving his body (which is a good retcon, because that was retarded). The VD was intentionally vague. It confirms that Palpatine(as we knew him) did in fact 'die' during RotJ, and implies that he was resurrected by the Sith loyalists through "a mixture of technology and the occult."

And in the film itself, Palpatine states to Kylo: "I have died before... The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

And later on in the film, Beaumont Kin(who is recognized as an expert in the field of Sith occult) states: "Dark science...Cloning...Secrets only the Sith knew", upon learning of Palpatine's return.

So Palpatine being confirmed as a clone here is in-line with the info we already had. I suspected this would be the case from the start.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well he wont, because this was the end of the Skywalker saga. Yes, but Palpatine isn't a Skywalker.

https://i.imgur.com/44YpG7Y.gif

Eli Vanto
I really hope he never returns again though. He was the central villain across 9 different movies and god knows how much secondary material. Time to move on.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Galan007
The VD was intentionally vague. It confirms that Palpatine(as we knew him) did in fact 'die' during RotJ, and implies that he was resurrected by the Sith loyalists through "a mixture of technology and the occult."

And in the film itself, Palpatine states to Kylo: "I have died before... The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

And later on in the film, Beaumont Kin(who is recognized as an expert in the field of Sith occult) states: "Dark science...Cloning...Secrets only the Sith knew", upon learning of Palpatine's return.

So Palpatine being confirmed as a clone here is in-line with the info we already had. I suspected this would be the case from the start.

Yes, but Palpatine isn't a Skywalker.

https://i.imgur.com/44YpG7Y.gif



Oh okay, the articles I read misrepresented the VD then, saying it implies they actually retrieved his body.


Well actually after the sequels they made it the Skywalker & Palpatine saga. So... Hes done along with them.

Galan007
I don't think that was implied.

But Rey is both a Palpatine AND a Skywalker now... So I'm sure the saga will still continue at some point.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think that was implied.

But Rey is both a Palpatine AND a Skywalker now... So I'm sure the saga will still continue at some point.

She's a Palpatine and a what? I think you did a typo Galan.

Galan007
Talking about her taking the Skywalker name. stick out tongue

Galan007
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
I really hope he never returns again though. He was the central villain across 9 different movies and god knows how much secondary material. Time to move on. Oh, I agree.

I'm hoping the novelization definitively kills him by introducing some sort of metaphysical aspect into the lightning-deflect scene, which erases his spirit or somesuch.

ares834
I hope they bring him back. Just to shit on the ST even more.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by ares834
I hope they bring him back. Just to shit on the ST even more.

I'm reminded of this RC sketch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJJY_1jtO4U

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
I hope they bring him back. Just to shit on the ST even more. Star Wars - Episode X: The Re-Rise of Palpatine

Galan007
Another leaked excerpt confirms how Palpatine survived the fall, and details the cloning process a bit:

"She will take her revenge", Palpatine boomed.

Rey continued to approach. His power was intoxicating. She found herself raising her weapon, almost against her will. If not for the other presence in her mind, bright and shining with light, she would not have been able to resist him.

"And with the stroke of her saber, the Sith are reborn! The Jedi are dead!"

Wave after wave of triumph emanated from him, and along with it came knowledge, memories. Maybe it was their shared blood that enabled her to see his thoughts, but somehow she could, and Rey saw it then, how he'd done it, what he was about to do again:

Falling...Falling...Falling... down a massive shaft, the betrayal sharp and stinging, a figure high above, black clad and helmeted and shrinking fast. His very own apprentice had turned against him, the way he himself had turned against Plagueis...whose secret to immortality he had stolen.

Plagueis had not acted fast enough in his own moment of death. But Sidious, sensing the flickering light in his apprentice, had been ready for years. So the falling, dying Emperor called on all the dark power of the Force to thrust his consciousness far, far away to a secret place he had been preparing. His body was dead, an empty vessel, long before it found the bottom of the reactor shaft, and his mind jolted to new awareness in a new body--a painful one, a temporary one.

It was too soon. The secret place had not completed its preparations. The transfer was imperfect, and the cloned body wasn't enough. Perhaps Plagueis was having the last laugh after all. Maybe his secret remained secret. Because Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form.

The heretics of the Sith Eternal toiled, splicing genes, bolstering tissue, creating unnatural abominations in the hope that one of these strandcasts would succeed and become a worthy receptacle. The heretics would do anything, risk anything, sacrifice anything, to create a cradle for their god-consciousness. Nothing worked, but their efforts were not entirely in vain.

Rey's vision shifted. It was Luke, sitting cross-legged on the island of Ahch-To, trembling with effort as he projected himself onto the battlefield of Crait... And yet another flash. This time of Leia in her jungle corridors, giving everything she had to send a final thought to Ben... They were all manifestations of the same power, and now Rey would use it her own way. She lifted her saber as if to strike...

Sheev
Wow.

So Plagueis DID know the secret to immortality and taught it to Sidious.

And is the bit that says "creating unnatural abominations in the hope that one of these strandcasts would succeed and become a worthy receptacle" referring to Snoke?

Galan007
I would assume so, yes. That would explain the vats of Snoke clones in the film -- they were the "unnatural abominations" created by the Sith Eternal, in an effort to make a proper receptacle for their "god-consciousness"(ie. Palpatine)... But then the question becomes: if Snoke was just a f*cked up clone, then how did he become so powerful? mmm

The excerpt also seems to imply that Luke's Projection ability is a variation of Palpatine's essence/consciousness/spirit transfer... Which would be more proof that it was FAR more than just a simple illusion that he manifested on Crait.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Galan007
But then the question becomes: if Snoke was just a f*cked up clone, then how did he become so powerful? mmm



Maybe hes just not that powerful stick out tongue

Seriously though if hes a messed up clone of Palpatine, that would actually justify him being as powerful (in the Force) as Palps, especially after a couple of decades of practising his powers, and presumably with some of Palps memories as well.

Galan007
But it seems like the aim was for the Loyalists to create a suitable clone vessel for Palpatine to hop into.

So if Snoke is one of those failed clones, it just seems odd that he'd not only be fully sentient/independent without actually containing Palpatine's essence, but also so powerful on his own(Luke implied that he was ~ RotJ Palpatine.)

Zenwolf
Oh what fun this is, trying to make everything cohesive and it's not going to work as we already have contradictions, retcons and so on..

Sheev
All this added content might be lackluster, but at least the novel is actually giving us definite answers. Thats at least a good thing because it stops the rampant speculation and head canon.

xPRIMEx

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
But it seems like the aim was for the Loyalists to create a suitable clone vessel for Palpatine to hop into.

So if Snoke is one of those failed clones, it just seems odd that he'd not only be fully sentient/independent without actually containing Palpatine's essence, but also so powerful on his own(Luke implied that he was ~ RotJ Palpatine.)

Or maybe that interpretation of the quote is wrong.

ares834

Psychotron
Originally posted by Galan007
Leaked page from the novel seems to confirm that Palpatine's spirit was inhabiting a clone body, and was literally breaking down due to his immense power(more or less identical to DE):
https://i.imgur.com/mAMha43.jpg

If his power was destroying the clone body why did draining Rey and Kylo heal him? Shouldn't it have overloaded his clone body instead?

Scizard
special dyad powers btw

Galan007
Yet another leaked excerpt from the novel details Palpatine's "son"/Rey's "father" -- it's actually a continuation of the text I posted earlier...

"One genetic strandcast lived. Thrived, even. A not-quite-identical clone. His "son". But he was a useless, powerless failure. Palpatine could not bear to look upon such disappointing ordinariness. The boy's only worth would lay in continuing the bloodline through more natural methods.

And it was through that eventual union, unexpected as it was, that Rey was born. The perfect vessel. Strong enough to contain all the power of the Sith. His granddaughter."

So yeah... It seems like Palpatine actually WANTED his clone vessel to be both sentient AND strong with the Force.

Sheev

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Galan007
Yet another leaked excerpt from the novel details Palpatine's "son"/Rey's "father" -- it's actually a continuation of the text I posted earlier...

"One genetic strandcast lived. Thrived, even. A not-quite-identical clone. His "son". But he was a useless, powerless failure. Palpatine could not bear to look upon such disappointing ordinariness. The boy's only worth would lay in continuing the bloodline through more natural methods.

And it was through that eventual union, unexpected as it was, that Rey was born. The perfect vessel. Strong enough to contain all the power of the Sith. His granddaughter."

So yeah... It seems like Palpatine actually WANTED his clone vessel to be both sentient AND strong with the Force.


Wait... Reys Father was another clone of Palpatine?

That means Palpatine isnt Reys actual grandfather.

This is just giving me headache.

Eli Vanto
So I guess that means the guy we saw in the movie flashback is the Sidious clone.

https://i.postimg.cc/RFXvWc56/father.jpg

Interesting.


And does this mean that Sidious really didn't have the power of every Sith before him?

Total Warrior
^SO that's how young Sheev Palpatine looked like?

Galan007
The novel also confirms that after Palpatine sent Ben hurling off the cliff, he didn't survive by stopping his fall with the Force. He landed on an outcropping, and climbed back up from there.

...Which makes this flashback training sequence from the comics:
https://i.imgur.com/x0gVE2V.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CcWGOIY.jpg
Completely f*cking irrelevant. ermm



It also states that Ben briefly spoke with Rey after he died:

"Ben Solo had no regrets as he collapsed to the ground. The Force reached for him in welcome. His final awareness was Rey, clasping his hand with her own.

Rey stood over the place Ben had fallen, staring down at his empty tunic. Tears streaming down her face. He had sacrificed everything for her. She did not mourn Kylo Ren. She would never mourn Kylo Ren. But she dearly would have loved a chance to get to know Ben Solo. It felt like half of her was missing, and she supposed it was.

The girl who had felt alone for all those years on Jakku had been part of a Dyad the whole time. And just as she'd discovered that precious connection, that incredible oneness, it was ripped away.

A voice came to her through the Force, clear and strong. "I will always be with you," Ben said. Rey smiled. Let the truth of it wash over her. "No one's ever really gone," she whispered."

Zenwolf
Tch and people said that Disney SW was gonna be consistent and do away with all the nonsense that the old EU had..well that horse was shot in the face.

ares834

ares834
Apparently Matt Martin wasn't even aware of this.

https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1235430023491768320

So much for the "story" group...

laughing out loud

xPRIMEx

Darth Thor
Originally posted by ares834
Apparently Matt Martin wasn't even aware of this.

https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1235430023491768320

So much for the "story" group...

laughing out loud


lol what a tool: google before responding, so you can at least pretend to know whats going on.



Originally posted by Galan007
The novel also confirms that after Palpatine sent Ben hurling off the cliff, he didn't survive by stopping his fall with the Force. He landed on an outcropping, and climbed back up from there.

...Which makes this flashback training sequence from the comics:

Completely f*cking irrelevant. ermm



Its almost as if youre actually surprised at this point...

Galan007
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Tch and people said that Disney SW was gonna be consistent and do away with all the nonsense that the old EU had..well that horse was shot in the face. The novel hasn't really contradicted anything yet, but the added content just keeps muddying the waters more and more. ermm

Originally posted by ares834
Apparently Matt Martin wasn't even aware of this.

https://twitter.com/missingwords/status/1235430023491768320

So much for the "story" group...

laughing out loud There's no way he couldn't have known. Even if he wasn't part of the storygroup, this info has been exploding the internet the past few days.

Sheev
Originally posted by Galan007
The novel also confirms that after Palpatine sent Ben hurling off the cliff, he didn't survive by stopping his fall with the Force. He landed on an outcropping, and climbed back up from there.

...Which makes this flashback training sequence from the comics:
https://i.imgur.com/x0gVE2V.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CcWGOIY.jpg
Completely f*cking irrelevant. ermm



It also states that Ben briefly spoke with Rey after he died:

"Ben Solo had no regrets as he collapsed to the ground. The Force reached for him in welcome. His final awareness was Rey, clasping his hand with her own.

Rey stood over the place Ben had fallen, staring down at his empty tunic. Tears streaming down her face. He had sacrificed everything for her. She did not mourn Kylo Ren. She would never mourn Kylo Ren. But she dearly would have loved a chance to get to know Ben Solo. It felt like half of her was missing, and she supposed it was.

The girl who had felt alone for all those years on Jakku had been part of a Dyad the whole time. And just as she'd discovered that precious connection, that incredible oneness, it was ripped away.

A voice came to her through the Force, clear and strong. "I will always be with you," Ben said. Rey smiled. Let the truth of it wash over her. "No one's ever really gone," she whispered." I still wonder when Ben learned how to become a spirit??

Zentrex
I'm once again impressed with their mistreatment of this goldmine of a franchise.

How difficult is it to just organize? Communicate your ideas before putting them in your book, comic, movie, whatever, so people know not to contradict them? Have a planned story that everyone's aware of so that one bad decision doesn't make the entire trilogy fall apart?

Why are they being so careless?

Galan007
Originally posted by Sheev
I still wonder when Ben learned how to become a spirit?? Tbf, Vader/Anakin doing so is even more "wtf".

At least Ben had trained under Luke for a number of years before the events of the ST... Vader somehow managed to become a Force Spirit on the fly, without ever receiving any training/guidance in that area beforehand.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
Tbf, Vader/Anakin doing so is even more "wtf".

At least Ben had trained under Luke for a number of years before the events of the ST... Vader somehow managed to become a Force Spirit on the fly, without ever receiving any training/guidance in that area.

Didn't Obi-Wan/Yoda teach him when he died?

Galan007
Canon hasn't said anything definitive, but yeah, they must have taught him the ability postmortem(akin to how Qui-Gon learned), because his physical body didn't sublimate into the Force when he died.

...But Anakin learning how to fully manifest himself as an actual spirit(and not just a disembodied voice) a few hours after he died is pretty crazy. I get that he's the Chosen One and a prodigy, but damn...

Galan007
So evidently "The Doctrine of the Dyad" predates even the Sith Rule of Two...

"The Emperor gasped. Stared at his hands, which hand begun knitting themselves back together, bones regrowing, pale flesh closing over them. "The life-force of your bond," he said, his voice tingled with wonder. "A Dyad in the Force!"

His gleeful triumphant thoughts washed over Rey, as she struggled against his grip, unable to move. He had won. At last. All those years, all that searching. He'd tried to create a Dyad with Anakin, as his Master had tried to create one with him. The Rule of Two, a Master always in search of a yet more powerful apprentice, was a pale imitation, an unworthy but necessary successor to the older, purer Doctrine of the Dyad.

"Unseen for generations," he crowed. "And now the power of two restores the one true Emperor!"

He raised his perfect, healed hands, and called on all the dark power of the Force and the Sith who had come before him, and pulled their life from their very bodies. It poured from them like a river of light, leaving them weaker and weaker.

The Emperor laughed as his body strengthened, became whole. The milky film faded from his eyes, revealing golden irises around obsidian pupils."

ares834

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
So they've retcon the Rule of Two now with the Dyad nonsense...

laughing out loud

**** Disney. The Rule of Two is now the second-string("unworthy"wink variation of The Doctrine of the Dyad. So essentially, when the Sith realized how hard it was to create a Dyad in the Force, they adopted the RoT out of necessity.

...Because god forbid they just keep the Dyad BS between Rey and Ben. ermm

Originally posted by ares834
And yet he didn't. He even dismissed it initially as click bait nonsense. That's really f*cking bad. sick

Sheev
Oh boy.....

Well hey, at least we know for sure that Sidious was definitely harnessing the power of ALL the Sith before him.

herbhappy

Zenwolf
...I can't with this Dyad nonsense. Ok sure for Rey and Ben....fine I guess. But I feel it complicates things.

In fact, you know what this sounds like to me with the whole "amplifying one another and all that nonsense?"

Sounds to me like...Force Bond.

NewGuy01
but less cool than force bonds

Galan007
thumb up

Seems like the main difference is that Force bonds can be initiated at will, whereas these Dyads just sort of happen naturally and can't really be learned. Does that seem about right?

Eli Vanto
Originally posted by Galan007
So evidently "The Doctrine of the Dyad" predates even the Sith Rule of Two...

"The Emperor gasped. Stared at his hands, which hand begun knitting themselves back together, bones regrowing, pale flesh closing over them. "The life-force of your bond," he said, his voice tingled with wonder. "A Dyad in the Force!"

His gleeful triumphant thoughts washed over Rey, as she struggled against his grip, unable to move. He had won. At last. All those years, all that searching. He'd tried to create a Dyad with Anakin, as his Master had tried to create one with him. The Rule of Two, a Master always in search of a yet more powerful apprentice, was a pale imitation, an unworthy but necessary successor to the older, purer Doctrine of the Dyad.

"Unseen for generations," he crowed. "And now the power of two restores the one true Emperor!"

He raised his perfect, healed hands, and called on all the dark power of the Force and the Sith who had come before him, and pulled their life from their very bodies. It poured from them like a river of light, leaving them weaker and weaker.

The Emperor laughed as his body strengthened, became whole. The milky film faded from his eyes, revealing golden irises around obsidian pupils." So creating a dyad is always a Sith's main goal with their apprentices?

Plaguies tried creating one with Sidious, and Sidious tried creating one with Anakin. When they couldn't create a dyad, they just went with the Rule of Two.

Quite a revelation. confused

Zenwolf

Galan007

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
Yep.

But because Dyads are evidently nigh-impossible for Sith to create, they use the less-preferable Rule of Two.

thumb up

Yeah from what I've read on the Wookiee(I know, not too reliable, but the basis I mean)...Canon has Force bond separate from Dyad, the Bond in Canon can only have the pair connected and communicate across distances. The Dyad seems to be that amplifying aspect or whatever.

....So Canon essentially took Force Bond from Legends and split it in two because....reasons?

Galan007
Yeah, Luke explained bonds a bit in Secrets of the Jedi. Funnily enough, he lists it under "Dark Force Abilities":
https://i.imgur.com/qdEOaXi.jpg

The bond itself is relatively benign, and essentially just allows the users to communicate across vast distances, sense each other's feelings, etc., but they are also very exploitable -- like when Palpatine used the bond between Yoda and Dooku to project the illusion into Yoda's mind to try and break him in TCW S06.

Dyad connections, however, not only amp the users' powers/abilities, but they can also inextricably teleport/materialize the users across galactic distances and have them occupy the same space, pass matter back and forth, etc. Based on what we saw with Rey and Ben(who had barely even scratched the surface of the ability), I imagine that a perfected Dyad connection would allow for absolutely ridiculous shenanigans to take place... Which is likely why the Sith always tried to create Dyads with their apprentices first.

Darth Thor
Oh jeez instead of explaining the Dyad better, they just keep digging a bigger hole for themselves.

Just give up justifying this trilogy Disney, and move on.

Sheev
One of the other leaked quotes implies that Plagueis also knew how to preform essence transfer, but wasn't able to when Sidious killed him because he didn't have any vessels ready.

So I wonder how far back that ability goes, and how many Sith knew it? I also have to wonder HOW Sidious was able to gather the power of every Sith before him?

Zentrex
Well, it sort of makes sense if you think about it. The only reason is doesn't work is because it comes out of nowhere and they have to have these breaks in the text just to explain what's going on.

The same can be said for a bunch of stupid things about this movie: Palpatine coming back, the way he looks, being "all the sith," etc. I'm open to the ideas, had they executed them properly.

Sheev
Originally posted by Zentrex
Well, it sort of makes sense if you think about it. The only reason is doesn't work is because it comes out of nowhere and they have to have these breaks in the text just to explain what's going on.

The same can be said for a bunch of stupid things about this movie: Palpatine coming back, the way he looks, being "all the sith," etc. I'm open to the ideas, had they executed them properly. As much as I love Sidious wank, they should not have brought him back.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Sheev
As much as I love Sidious wank, they should not have brought him back.

I still can't get over the fact....Abrams could have literally undone Snoke's death with the cloning thing and yet...he didn't. ...He had the means to continue off of TFA, the movie he made....but didn't...just...uughh...

Sheev
He should have definitely stuck with Snoke.

New character with an unknown backstory that he could have spun any number of interesting ways. But instead he tried cramming fan service down our throats and it just didn't work at all. There was zero need for Sidious to be a part of this.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Sheev
As much as I love Sidious wank, they should not have brought him back.

Well, right, he shouldn't have come back in this trilogy because we'd hadn't started with that in mind. I mean, he shouldn't have come back at all, because there's no way to make a good story with Palpatine just returning after his death, but that's a different story. What I mean is that I'm open to this idea (just like I was open to and liked Dark Empire) if they'd planned for it to go this way from the beginning and had made it make sense.

Ooooooor maybe I'm grasping at the shreds of a good dream, because I got too excited seeing ol' Palpy.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I still can't get over the fact....Abrams could have literally undone Snoke's death with the cloning thing and yet...he didn't. ...He had the means to continue off of TFA, the movie he made....but didn't...just...uughh...
Imma blame Kathleen Kennedy for that, since I heard she's the one who wanted to bring Sheev back/wanted Anakin to stay out of this/may be responsible for the pointless retconns. And maybe Bob Iger for not planning the trilogy better. And maybe the story group too for not communicating. And y'know what, JJ's not off the hook either, since he's tried to please everyone by listening too closely to the fan critiques of TLJ.

Galan007
Not really a huge revelation, but the novel also confirms that Rey's new yellow saber is a single blade.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
Not really a huge revelation, but the novel also confirms that Rey's new yellow saber is a single blade.

...Ya know...the one thing that would have made sense. Just...the tiny thing...make it a saberstaff, it's what we saw her using before even getting a lightsaber.

But I guess we can't even have the small things.

Eli Vanto
Damn. Was hoping it would be a double blade. sad

My other question is where she found a new kyber crystal to begin with? Ilum isn't around anymore, and it's not like you can just find kyber crystals laying around on the ground. confused

Galan007
Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Damn. Was hoping it would be a double blade. sad

My other question is where she found a new kyber crystal to begin with? Ilum isn't around anymore, and it's not like you can just find kyber crystals laying around on the ground. confused At this point I wouldn't be surprised if she just made the kyber herself. ermm

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if she just made the kyber herself. ermm

It came out of her vagina.

Galan007
Another excerpt:

Palpatine's eyes widened with zeal. "With your anger, you will strike me down, and you will ascend. As I did, When I killed my Master, Darth Plagueis. Now, raise your saber and strike me down."

Rey frowned, Luke had warned her about this. "All you want is for me to hate. But I won't. Not even you."

As if reading her thoughts about Luke, the Emperor said, "I've made this very proposal before. But on that unfortunate day Luke Skywalker had his father to save him. You do not Strike me down. Take the throne as Empress. Reign over the new Empire and the fleet will be yours to do as you wish. Only you have the power to save them all. Refuse and your new family dies."


I guess it's open to interpretation, but this could imply that Palpatine wanted Luke to kill him during RotJ so that he could hop into his body(like he was going to do with Rey.) ermm

Zenwolf
What the hell is this dialogue...

Galan007
The sheer amount retcons'revelations' in the Palpatine/Rey scene alone is absurd.

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
Another excerpt:

Palpatine's eyes widened with zeal. "With your anger, you will strike me down, and you will ascend. As I did, When I killed my Master, Darth Plagueis. Now, raise your saber and strike me down."

Rey frowned, Luke had warned her about this. "All you want is for me to hate. But I won't. Not even you."

As if reading her thoughts about Luke, the Emperor said, "I've made this very proposal before. But on that unfortunate day Luke Skywalker had his father to save him. You do not Strike me down. Take the throne as Empress. Reign over the new Empire and the fleet will be yours to do as you wish. Only you have the power to save them all. Refuse and your new family dies."


I guess it's open to interpretation, but this could imply that Palpatine wanted Luke to kill him during RotJ so that he could hop into his body(like he was going to do with Rey.) ermm

laughing out loud

**** this shit. This stuff is straight up non-canon at this point.

Sheev
It's definitely canon but jfc it's hard to make sense out of all this. messed

The Merchant
Guessing I'm the only one who likes the idea that Palps wanted to possess Luke stick out tongue

Total Warrior
^Me too tbh

ares834
It makes absolutely no sense. Sorry, but it's factually shit. Which isn't a surprise considering it came from Rise of Skywalker.

Dominis
During that part of the novel, when the two proposals were compared, it seems that Palpatine was leading Rey to believe that his spirit passing into her was just a metaphor for her ascending. It wasn't until later, when she was able to peer his thoughts, that she realized he was literally wanting to possess her body.

The proposal was the same, but the intention was different. That's how I'm interpreting it, anyway.

Galan007
Novel also confirms that Rey learned the healing technique from the ancient Jedi texts, and preforming it requires transferring her own lifeforce into the being she is healing.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Galan007
Novel also confirms that Rey learned the healing technique from the ancient Jedi texts, and preforming it requires transferring her own lifeforce into the being she is healing.
What? But, then?...what about...the Child? Did he discover an ancient technique that requires manipulation of your very essense itself at the age of basically 5?

Galan007
Originally posted by Zentrex
What? But, then?...what about...the Child? Did he discover an ancient technique that requires manipulation of your very essense itself at the age of basically 5? Healing wounds and such requires varying levels of lifeforce transfer. When Rey healed the Vexis snake, its wounds weren't overly severe, so she was none the worse for wear afterward. When Rey healed Ben, however, it took a decent toll on her afterward, and she had to recover a bit once she got to Ahch-To(as the novel explains.) And resurrecting the dead, like Ben did, requires transferring all of one's lifeforce.

The Child has a natural(and extremely powerful) affinity with the Force... and given the longevity of the species, I'd imagine that it has more lifeforce than most to give. /shrug

Galan007
Oh and the novel also explains how Ben managed to get from the ocean moon of Endor to Exegol.

In short: he somehow managed to find a ship among the Death Star ruins that was in decent working order. After he tweaked it a bit, he flew to Exegol.

That's one hell of a durable ship, lol. facepalm

Zentrex
Originally posted by Galan007
Healing wounds and such requires varying levels of lifeforce transfer. When Rey healed the Vexis snake, its wounds weren't overly severe, so she was none the worse for wear afterward. When Rey healed Ben, however, it took a decent toll on her afterward, and she had to recover a bit once she got to Ahch-To(as the novel explains.) And resurrecting the dead, like Ben did, requires transferring all of one's lifeforce.

The Child has a natural(and extremely powerful) affinity with the Force... and given the longevity of the species, I'd imagine that it has more lifeforce than most to give. /shrug

Oh. For some reason I assumed that the ancient texts including it meant that prequel-era jedi didn't have the ability.

But then like, what is life force? Do you have a limited amount of it? Can you then heal small wounds only a number of times?

Galan007
Originally posted by Zentrex
Oh. For some reason I assumed that the ancient texts including it meant that prequel-era jedi didn't have the ability.

But then like, what is life force? Do you have a limited amount of it? Can you then heal small wounds only a number of times? The ancient texts are just where Rey learned the healing technique from -- but the ability is evidently quite rare in canon, considering that only Rey, Ben, and The Child have done it... And I doubt any other Jedi knew it during the PT, as it would have been an invaluable asset during TCW, for example.

I assume that one's lifeforce is the same thing as their Living Force. After all, Luke died after dumping all of his Living Force into the projection he created during TLJ, just like Ben died after dumping all of his lifeforce into Rey to resurrect her.

As mentioned, the greater the injury, the more lifeforce transfer is required. That's why Rey was drained after she healed Kylo -- his injury was life threatening, and required quite a bit a her lifeforce to heal. But once she recovers, it is something she can do repeatedly.

StiltmanFTW
https://tinyurl.com/vj79yxr

Total Warrior
^Obi wan would have died though

Zenwolf
I'm not sure how I feel about Force healing being a rare power in Canon, it just seems kinda...strange.

Galan007
Originally posted by Total Warrior
^Obi wan would have died though The injury that killed Qui-Gon wasn't immediately fatal. Good chance that Rey(or whoever) could have healed him without dying.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I'm not sure how I feel about Force healing being a rare power in Canon, it just seems kinda...strange. Yeah, it's evidently an old ability that was lost over the years for whatever reason.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, it's evidently an old ability that was lost over the years for whatever reason.

Do you mean because we haven't seen it much? What if other authors simply haven't included them in their stories yet? With the High Republic around the corner, it's possible we might find out that it's not so rare after all.

And yeah, healing would have been useful during TCW, but then telekinesis would have been useful in keeping Luke from escaping in ESB, being able to "watch" people from a different planet would have been useful in organizing a rebellion and stealing intel from the Empire, being a force ghost would have had countless uses...

Zentrex
Originally posted by Total Warrior
^Obi wan would have died though
Originally posted by Galan007
The injury that killed Qui-Gon wasn't immediately fatal. Good chance that Rey(or whoever) could have healed him without dying.

I wouldn't make assumptions. At this point, we've seen so little of this ability that authors could make up whatever new rules they wanted to explain all of this. Our conjecture really can't mean much.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Galan007
I assume that one's lifeforce is the same thing as their Living Force. After all, Luke died after dumping all of his Living Force into the projection he created during TLJ, just like Ben died after dumping all of his lifeforce into Rey to resurrect her.

As mentioned, the greater the injury, the more lifeforce transfer is required. That's why Rey was drained after she healed Kylo -- his injury was life threatening, and required quite a bit a her lifeforce to heal. But once she recovers, it is something she can do repeatedly.

Makes sense. Thanks! thumb up

Galan007
Originally posted by Zentrex
I wouldn't make assumptions. At this point, we've seen so little of this ability that authors could make up whatever new rules they wanted to explain all of this. Our conjecture really can't mean much. The novel mentions that resurrecting the dead requires the healer to transfer all of their lifeforce, which is why Ben died after bringing Rey back. Conversely, healing the living requires varying amounts of lifeforce transfer, depending on the severity of the injury.

Maul's strike was not immediately lethal -- Qui-Gon survived for ~5 minutes afterward. So according to the 'parameters' of this novel, Rey could have healed him without dying if she had reached him when Kenobi did. It would have taken a good deal of her lifeforce, but she could have done it.

Eli Vanto
Makes me wonder if ST Luke knew the healing ability?

Galan007
I would assume so.

He read the ancient texts as well, and could obviously control his own Living Force.

Sheev
Maybe it's just me but I actually think the life force transfer makes complete sense

xPRIMEx

Galan007
I like the explanation, tbh.

The transference of your own Living Force into the being you are healing seems fitting.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Zenwolf
I'm not sure how I feel about Force healing being a rare power in Canon, it just seems kinda...strange.

thumb up

I want to forget everything about ST stick out tongue

Galan007
Leia reflects on her past training with Luke while she trains Rey...

Zenwolf
So an hour and her body is exhausted? I mean I get that she was new with The Force and Jedi training. Buut....that seems really disappointing, given her time being a Rebel and fighting among her peers, she wasn't some desk pencil pusher.

Galan007
A bit more on Rey summoning Force Lightning...


"Rey tried to remember her training. "Let the Force guide your actions," Leia would say. But thinking of Leia, her training, even for the briefest of moments made her lose concentration, and the ship heaved again in Kylo's direction.

So Rey bore down with all the strength of her being. Blood screamed in her ears, and her heart was a massive drum in her chest. She drew on her rage at Kylo, at the First Order, even on Unkar Plutt. She drew on her terror for Chewie's life, remembered what it was like to watch Han Solo drop into the abyss on Starkiller Base. She drew on pain, too. The aching hollowness of an empty stomach, the bruised knuckles with no Bacta to soothe them, the feel of grit in her molars after a windy day, the dagger sharp silence of loneliness. Rey opened her mouth in a silent scream. Raw power burst from her fingertips, arched towards the freighter. It was blue lightning. Pure Force energy. Brighter than a lightsaber. Hotter than a sun. It wrapped its deadly, crooked fingers around the transport, which jerked sideways for the briefest instant and then exploded into a sickening fireball The transport, and everyone inside, reduced to nothingness.



From a distance, Kylo Ren watched the freighter rise into the sky, Rey inside it. She had beaten him again, and yet, he was filled with triumph. He'd been right to push her. She had just demonstrated unbelievable, mind-blowing power. Dark power. Sith power. The scavenger was almost ready to turn, and when she did they would both kill their light, embrace their darkness. Then the Star Destroyer fleet and the Sith throne would be theirs."

Total Warrior
That's a good feat

Scizard
Not a very hot sun then.

Galan007
A couple tidbits about Snoke...

Galan007
Some Palpatine wank...

Darthadi
Anything about Sheev lifting the star destroyer fleet or not? In the movie is left ambiguous.

Galan007
^ It was a vision that Palpatine put in Kylo's head.

"The creature raised his ruined hand; Kylo sensed him drawing on the Force, but before he could react, his surroundings disappeared as if into a fog, and a vision filled their place. Lightning flashed, revealing cracked ground. The barren landscape shook, then shattered. A mountain erupted onto the surface. Dirt and chunks of soil fell away, revealing a metal hull, striped with red. Around it, more mountains broke the surface, resolving in massive Star Destroyers, half again the size of the Destroyers from the days of the Empire. More ships rose--and more and more--until tens of thousands hovered in the atmosphere.

The vision was whisked away, replaced by hundreds of thousands of Stormtroopers, shining in crimson armor.

With tremendous effort, Kylo thrust the vision aside. Everything he'd seen would be his."

Zenwolf
Well guess that solves that.

xPRIMEx

Total Warrior
^Also, anything interesting about Palpatine frying the Rebel fleet without hitting his ships at the same time?

Galan007

Galan007
Originally posted by Total Warrior
^Also, anything interesting about Palpatine frying the Rebel fleet without hitting his ships at the same time? Nothing that we didn't see on screen.

Sheev
Most importantly, does it confirm that Sidious is for sure dead or do you think there's still wiggle room for him to return?

xPRIMEx
Why buy the book when we have Galan007 laughing out loud

Galan007
Originally posted by Sheev
Most importantly, does it confirm that Sidious is for sure dead or do you think there's still wiggle room for him to return? I don't think he survived, no. The novel makes it clear that Plagueis also knew how to transfer his essence, but he didn't have a proper vessel prepared to receive his essence when Palpatine killed him... So the same thing should be the case with Palpatine here. He had no adequate vessels to hop into.

The novel does clarify *how* Rey beat him, though... And it wasn't just because she had two sabers.

"Rey stepped forward, pushing back against his onslaught. It was taking everything the Jedi had given her. Everything she had.

The lightning began to feed back on the Emperor. It ravaged his face, and he tossed back in agony, and in denial of what was happening. Rey pursued mercilessly, one foot in front of the other, absorbing power from the Force. Finally, she was ready. She gathered her strength, her faith in the Jedi past, her love of her friends, and she thrust it all at the Emperor.

He staggered backward, his own power reflected against him. It devoured him completely, ripping away his newly healed fingers, searing away the skin of his face, his very bones, until he disintegrated.

And like collapsing stardust, what remained of him coalesced into a single point, which then exploded with a massive shockwave that threw Rey to the ground. The Sith throne shattered. The ceiling bouldered down around her, crushing thousands of disciples in the amphitheater. "

Galan007
A couple more notes...

-There are quite a few blurbs about Finn's Force-sensitivity in this.

-The Ghost(from Rebels) and The Fireball/Kaz(from Resistance) are also directly referenced among the ships that arrive with Lando at the end.

-When Rey was connecting to all of the Jedi at the end and started hearing their voices, she noted that some of them were still "anchored to the living in a strange way"... Which implies that it wasn't *just* dead Jedi who were speaking to her... Which means Ahsoka is almost certainly alive as of RoS(as Filoni keeps alluding to.)

Zenwolf
So seeing that, seems more like a Oneness thing for Rey. Which now that I think about that makes more sense.

Total Warrior

Zenwolf

xPRIMEx
She was amped by all the Jedi

xPRIMEx

ares834
Uh... Wasn't that obvious in the film itself.

Galan007
The Dyad between Rey and Ben was also in full effect while they were battling the guards on Exegol(as if passing the lightsaber wasn't enough evidence)...

"Rey drew on Ben's strength, and he drew on hers, and just like before, they were also separate but also together, Rey battling the guards, and Ben battling the Knights.

"Behind you," she warned, and he brought up his saber to block his back, whirled, impaled Trudgen, flipped over his falling body, spun, and did the same to Ushar."

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
The Dyad between Rey and Ben was also in full effect while they were battling the guards on Exegol(as if passing the lightsaber wasn't enough evidence)...

"Rey drew on Ben's strength, and he drew on hers, and just like before, they were also separate but also together, Rey battling the guards, and Ben battling the Knights.

"Behind you," she warned, and he brought up his saber to block his back, whirled, impaled Trudgen, flipped over his falling body, spun, and did the same to Ushar."

So would that include Ben fighting the KoR?

That said, it seems thus far we don't have much individually. Well...ok Ren we have a bit more, but Rey it seems like all her best feats are when she is around/in the vicinity of Ben.

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think he survived, no. The novel makes it clear that Plagueis also knew how to transfer his essence, but he didn't have a proper vessel prepared to receive his essence when Palpatine killed him... So the same thing should be the case with Palpatine here. He had no adequate vessels to hop into.

Why wouldn't Palpatine have a bunch of back-up vessels secreted throughout the galaxy? Seems like a very obvious and massive oversight on his part. Sure, they may not be exactly in top condition but it's certainly better than death. He certainly has the budget to afford to do so.

Also, why didn't Plagueis posses Palpatine when he died? The implication is that if Rey gave into the darkside and killed her grandpa he could posses her... But for some reason Plagueis couldn't do it to Palps? This shit is just so much nonsense. Also kinda sucks that this deconfirms the theory that the Palaptine in the movies isn't actually "Sheev" but some ancient Sith (Bane perhaps) who has slowly cultivated dark power over the centuries by possessing his apprentices and Palpatine is merely his newest body.

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
Why wouldn't Palpatine have a bunch of back-up vessels secreted throughout the galaxy? Seems like a very obvious and massive oversight on his part. Sure, they may not be exactly in top condition but it's certainly better than death. He certainly has the budget to afford to do so. The implication is that it was exceedingly difficult to create a suitable vessel to house Palpatine's essence:

"Palpatine was trapped in a broken, dying form. The heretics of the Sith Eternal toiled, splicing genes, bolstering tissue, creating unnatural abominations in the hope that one of these strandcasts would succeed and become a worthy receptacle. The heretics would do anything, risk anything, sacrifice anything, to create a cradle for their god-consciousness. Nothing worked, but their efforts were not entirely in vain.

One genetic strandcast lived. Thrived, even. A not-quite-identical clone. His "son". But he was a useless, powerless failure. Palpatine could not bear to look upon such disappointing ordinariness. The boy's only worth would lay in continuing the bloodline through more natural methods.

And it was through that eventual union, unexpected as it was, that Rey was born. The perfect vessel. Strong enough to contain all the power of the Sith. His granddaughter."


Evidently the rotting corpse of Palpatine we saw initially is as close as the Sith cultists could get to cloning/engineering "a cradle for their god-consciousness".

Originally posted by ares834
Also, why didn't Plagueis posses Palpatine when he died? The implication is that if Rey gave into the darkside and killed her grandpa he could posses her... But for some reason Plagueis couldn't do it to Palps? This shit is just so much nonsense. Also kinda sucks that this deconfirms the theory that the Palaptine in the movies isn't actually "Sheev" but some ancient Sith (Bane perhaps) who has slowly cultivated dark power over the centuries by possessing his apprentices and Palpatine is merely his newest body. Maybe it was a bloodline thing? After all, if Palpatine could have simply hopped into any dark side user, he would've had Vader kill him years ago... Or even have Kylo kill him at the beginning of the film.

Palpatine's mind/power was definitely the dominate essence... He was just being bolstered by the power of all the Sith before him(like Rey was with the Jedi.) I do wish it explained *how* Palpatine obtained his 'Omni-Sith' power, though. Seems like a monumentally important plot-point to just ignore...

xPRIMEx
My understanding is that the old sith spirits live within him, but the one who kills the previous master still maintains control of their own body and consciousness, and just carries the spirits and powers of the previous sith from before. So when Palpatine killed Plagueis, he gained the power of plagueis and all the sith spirits he carried, without actually being “possessed”

xPRIMEx
The spirits might corrupt the individual a bit, but do not actually take control of their consciousness

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
The implication is that it was exceedingly difficult to create a suitable vessel to house Palpatine's essence

Evidently the rotting corpse of Palpatine we saw initially is as close as the Sith cultists could get to cloning/engineering "a cradle for their god-consciousness".

Sure. So why not have more? Like I said, it's not perfect but better than death and he has plenty of resources to fund it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Maybe it was a bloodline thing? After all, if Palpatine could have simply hopped into any dark side user, he would've had Vader kill him years ago... Or even have Kylo kill him at the beginning of the film.

Except, as you posted earlier, it's suggested that he wanted to posses Luke in RotJ. So bloodline doesn't seem to be a necessary component. As for Vader, he was crippled and Rey likely was a better option for a vessel than Kylo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Palpatine's mind/power was definitely the dominate essence...

That's made clear now. However, with only the movie, it leaves open the possibility that the Sidious we've seen in all the films is not actually Sheev but rather some other Sith who possessed him (prior to Ep 1).

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
Sure. So why not have more? Like I said, it's not perfect but better than death and he has plenty of resources to fund it.



Except, as you posted earlier, it's suggested that he wanted to posses Luke in RotJ. So bloodline doesn't seem to be a necessary component. As for Vader, he was crippled and Rey likely was a better option for a vessel than Kylo.



That's made clear now. However, with only the movie, it leaves open the possibility that the Sidious we've seen in all the films is not actually Sheev but rather some other Sith who possessed him (prior to Ep 1). Because the implication is that making any sort of suitable clone vessel to contain Palpatine's essence was nearly impossible -- the body he was in at the start of the film was evidently a one-off. In the quote above it is stated that the Sith cultists only managed to create one other "genetic strandcast" who lived, and that was Palpatine's son/Rey's father -- but he wasn't Force-sensitive, thus could not be used as a vessel. This part of the plot, at least, isn't like DE, where Palpatine could stockpile an endless number of clone bodies and hop into them at will... Now *why* the cultists were unable to create clone bodies that were at least identical to the original vessel, is something that was not addressed. It just seemed like the 'science' behind all this was still very much imperfect, unreliable, and random(which makes sense, given that Palpatine is the first Sith we know of in canon who has transcended death like this, so it's not like the cultists had other cases to go by.)

Tbf, that quote is open to interpretation. Logically speaking, if Palpatine were capable of body-hopping into any dark sider who struck him down, he wouldn't have been stuck in a rotting clone corpse for decades, waiting specifically for Rey... This is presumably the same reason why Plagueis didn't try to hop into Palpatine's body upon his death. It has to be the 'right' vessel, or the transfer doesn't work.

I didn't interpret it that way in the film(to me it seemed like Palpatine was just controlling the power of all the previous Sith), but it's cleared up now either way. Palpatine obtained the power of all the Sith before him(somehow), and Rey obtained the power of all the Jedi to counter him... Balance and all that.

ares834
Originally posted by Galan007
Because the implication is that making any sort of suitable clone vessel to contain Palpatine's essence was nearly impossible -- the body he was in at the start of the film was evidently a one-off. In the quote above it is stated that the Sith cultists only managed to create one other "genetic strandcast" who lived, and that was Palpatine's son/Rey's father -- but he wasn't Force-sensitive, thus could not be used as a vessel. This part of the plot, at least, isn't like DE, where Palpatine could stockpile an endless number of clone bodies and hop into them at will... Now *why* the cultists were unable to create clone bodies that were at least identical to the original vessel, is something that was not addressed. It just seemed like the 'science' behind all this was still very much imperfect, unreliable, and random(which makes sense, given that Palpatine is the first Sith we know of in canon who has transcended death like this, so it's not like the cultists had other cases to go by.)

So they, conveniently, were able to make one and only one clone that "worked".

confused

Originally posted by Galan007
Tbf, that quote is open to interpretation. Logically speaking, if Palpatine were capable of body-hopping into any dark sider who struck him down, he wouldn't have been stuck in a rotting clone corpse for decades, waiting specifically for Rey... This is presumably the same reason why Plagueis didn't try to hop into Palpatine's body upon his death. It has to be the 'right' vessel, or the transfer doesn't work.

Like I said, it's nonsense. As for the quote, re-reading it, that interpretation is quite clearly the correct one.

DE did this so much better so many years ago...

Originally posted by Galan007
I didn't interpret it that way in the film(to me it seemed like Palpatine was just controlling the power of all the previous Sith), but it's cleared up now either way. Palpatine obtained the power of all the Sith before him(somehow), and Rey obtained the power of all the Jedi to counter him... Balance and all that.

Sure, and that's what I thought as well. I simply liked that it left the possibility open.

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
So they, conveniently, were able to make one and only one clone that "worked".

confused


As for the quote, re-reading it, that interpretation is quite clearly the correct one.

DE did this so much better so many years ago... That seemed to be the case, yeah. Even though it was imperfect and required constant 'life support', the original clone vessel was still sufficient to contain Palpatine's essence for a number of years. Despite repeated attempts over the decades, the cultists only created one other vessel that lived -- and that was Rey's non-Force sensitive father.

Maybe, maybe not. But as mentioned, if you assume that Palpatine could have hopped into any random dark side user who killed him, then even MORE plot holes open up, and things become a LOT more illogical. After reading this novel, I got the impression that Palpatine's vessel had to be directly linked to Palpatine himself, otherwise the transfer wouldn't be successful. That's why the cultists kept trying to make clones of him to be the vessel, that's why he didn't just have Kylo kill him and transfer his essence into Kylo's body, that's why he specifically wanted Rey, etc.

I agree that DE did it better. I'm just trying to piece things together at this point, lol.

Zamp
can you give me a Y/N answer:

Was Sidious (& by extension all of the Rule of Two Sith) an unbroken gestalt consciousness originating with Bane & Zannah, perpetuated by generations of essence transfer?

That's basically my last remaining question about the star wars universe at this point

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