Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

PR beyonder vs thought robot

cosmic armor easily.

beyonder is one of the most overhyped characters on this board.

Superman.

Superman stomps.

Beyonder is a small figure in a small story

Barley anyone knows who he is

Story of Superman rivals even the story of Santa Claus

Originally posted by DantasKEdc
PR beyonder vs thought robot Hey Mr Master.

What about a divine character like Lucifer Morningstar or Michael against Cosmic Superman?

Superman

Mr. Master sock?

Beyonder. People confuse iconlogy with power.

Originally posted by deft
Mr. Master sock?

Aren't you a sock?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Beyonder. People confuse iconlogy with power.

You dont understand CA superman then

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Aren't you a sock? I am a sock.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Beyonder. People confuse iconlogy with power.

lol

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
You dont understand CA superman then

Educate me then.

j3l7L_3ynzc

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
j3l7L_3ynzc

Seriously? You can't formulate thoughts so you post a video? Pass. My statement still stands.

Clearly you are unable to comprehend a video broken down barney style for small iq people.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Beyonder. People confuse iconlogy with power.
Iconicity＝Power in CAS's case.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Story of Superman rivals even the story of Santa Claus

So... even Deadpool could punk Supes then, iyo?

https://66.media.tumblr.com/f0c6e016c0a05c4561214792ea28e19f/tumblr_pj0xl5yA5j1sajkn0o6_1280.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/J7k7bhS/santa.jpg

I have shitloads of socks. I don't see what the big deal is.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I have shitloads of socks. I don't see what the big deal is.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/399de31a92b48fcde2f3e217b81e30a6/tenor.gif

Originally posted by deft
Mr. Master sock?

Few other posters are interested in nigh omnipotent characters such as Beyonder, so yeah, it might be him.

Originally posted by CatL18
Iconicity＝Power in CAS's case.

Implied power. We go by feats on this message board

We do, to an extent.

Originally posted by MrMind
We do, to an extent.

True. Narration wasn't written to be ignored, but SIN has a valid point. The Beyonder wasn't a scrub character by any stretch.

Beyonder in a Stomp. CAS is featless.

CAS is featless?? You really are a fcking idiot.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Superman stomps.

Beyonder is a small figure in a small story

Barley anyone knows who he is

Story of Superman rivals even the story of Santa Claus Superman is far better known and despite Santa's impressive speed feat once a year. Supes is way faster than him.

https://i.imgur.com/CnDvlLg.png

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
CAS is featless?? You really are a fcking idiot. What feats does he have idiot?

Read the scan above, brain trust

Astner actually posted CAS lowest feat

A statement is now a feat? LMAO.

Since when are statements not feats you little cockroach

Little hillbilly from Texas who's into WWE, a joke of human

Originally posted by MrMind
Since when are statements not feats you little cockroach Since it's NOT an actual SHOWN feat Maggot.

I guess Gladiator can do anything he sets his mind to huh? That's a statement. The guy can do anything now right? Tear a blackhole apart with his bare hands, even though he's never did it on panel. The length you Superman fans go to to try to make him shine. He doesn't need help from idiotic fans.

Originally posted by JBL
Since it's NOT an actual SHOWN feat Maggot.

Just because you didn't see yo mama getting tag team by 3 homeless people

Doesn't mean it didn't happen

Originally posted by MrMind
Just because you didn't see yo mama getting tag team by 3 homeless people

Doesn't mean it didn't happen Classis response from a loser on the internet. My mother is Dead by the way.

Originally posted by JBL
Since it's NOT an actual SHOWN feat Maggot.

It actually is loser.

Originally posted by JBL
I guess Gladiator can do anything he sets his mind to huh? That's a statement. The guy can do anything now right? Tear a blackhole apart with his bare hands, even though he's never did it on panel. The length you Superman fans go to to try to make him shine. He doesn't need help from idiotic fans.

Why cant you ever get Gladiator's cock out of your mouth?

Originally posted by MrMind
Just because you didn't see yo mama getting tag team by 3 homeless people

Doesn't mean it didn't happen

The things superman fans are allowed to do here is disgusting to say the least. if you vote against Superman you get bashed by many. Some place this is to try and relax and debate sensible posters.smh

Originally posted by JBL
The things superman fans are allowed to do here is disgusting to say the least. if you vote against Superman you get bashed by many. Some place this is to try and relax and debate sensible posters.smh

But you are straight up lying and trolling and ignoring on panel scans.

That is even more disgusting that its allowed.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
But you are straight up lying and trolling and ignoring on panel scans.

That is even more disgusting that its allowed. You Superman fans are the biggest liars on KMC. That's been proven plenty of times.

Originally posted by Astner
https://i.imgur.com/CnDvlLg.png
Originally posted by JBL
A statement is now a feat? LMAO.


This is a lie

Originally posted by JBL
You Superman fans are the biggest liars on KMC. That's been proven plenty of times.

I think it was proven Mr Master lied more than anyone here, ever.

Mr Master is in a league of his own, that's for damn sure...

Because JBL said he has no feats and even that one is not actually a feat.

Considering that almost everything in DC come from the story of Superman,Cosmic Armor Superman aka embodiment of the story of SUperman is the unstoppable force in DC omniverse.

Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, the attack didn't slow Thought-Robot down or cause it any lasting damage whatsoever, so I'm not sure what this is suppose to prove..? You act as though making Thought-Robot exclaim "Arrrrhh" is some sort of quantifiable feat, when it clearly isn't. I might make the same sound effect when I step on a Lego, because that hurts like a b*tch... Doesn't mean it actually harmed me to any noteworthy degree, however.
If something hurts then it's likely causing damage, if not being just a few steps removed from causing damage.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm also not sure why we'd focus on that, and not...you know...Thought-Robot matching, and ultimately defeating, a metafictional, trans-multiversal entity(created by the Overvoid itself), who had been feeding on 5D energy/imagination/story for untold eons..?
Primarily because it's something that's quantifiable, unlike the metafictional parallells of the events that took place in the Monitor Sphere.

I'm definitely open to stronger interpretations of Monitor-Armor Superman, but his gallery of feats is lackluster to say the least. And I need something more than "Morrison intended for this to be the strongest character ever."

lots of characters are used as plot devices, that doesn't inherently make them more powerful than another cosmic being. Neither does "controlling the story". That's just another way of expressing reality warping.

Thought Robot has a measily 2 issue's of publication history. He fought 1 character with an ambiguous power level and virtually no concrete feats.

Originally posted by Astner
If something hurts then it's likely causing damage, if not being just a few steps removed from causing damage. You can throw all the calcs you want at it, but the expression "Arrrrhh" still isn't an accurate means of quantifying damage... Especially when said attack caused no visible injuries whatsoever, and barely gave Thought-Robot any pause at all:
https://i.ibb.co/C9mZLMC/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond-002-017.jpg https://i.ibb.co/swY4x5R/Final-Crisis-Superman-Beyond-002-018.jpg

Originally posted by Astner
Primarily because it's something that's quantifiable, unlike the metafictional parallells of the events that took place in the Monitor Sphere.

I'm definitely open to stronger interpretations of Monitor-Armor Superman, but his gallery of feats is lackluster to say the least. And I need something more than "Morrison intended for this to be the strongest character ever." The amount of energy in that one attack is somewhat quantifiable, sure. The amount of damage it caused(if any), is not. Therefore, it is a moot argument and doesn't prove anything... Lego meet foot. /shrug

I don't think you really have to dive head-first into the metafictional realm of power in order to understand the threat Mandrakk posed to the whole of creation, nor do you have to go too far down the rabbit hole to understand what it ultimately took to defeat him. That being said, Thought-Robot and Mandrakk ARE metafictional beings(that is quite literally the fundamental part of their powersets), so that aspect of things *has* to weigh-in to some extent when discussing them. No way around that.

It would be like ignoring/disallowing metafictional discussions in a thread involving Ultra Comics. Doesn't work.

Astner has a point though. Exposition that's not backed by evidence is less than actual feats.

The point he was trying to make about "the heat of 10 billion suns" is moot, though, because the only real effect it had was making Thought-Robot say "ouch" for a second. You can't quantify damage/vulnerability based solely on that. Again: Lego meet foot.


The assertion that Thought-Robot is 'featless' is just flat-out hysterical to me, because it entirely ignores the threat of Mandrakk across the board, and shows a gross lack of basic reading comprehension skills. But I also get that people are just trolling/lowballing for the most part... because that's what you have to do in a Superman thread these days...so it's not a discussion I'm going to entertain beyond this. Just amusing, is all.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Astner has a point though. Exposition that's not backed by evidence is less than actual feats.

He has no point.

Originally posted by MrMind
that was the limbo, not the multiverse You could certainly argue that the Limbo realm scales far above the 3D multiverse, given that it transcends even the God Sphere.

But that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by MrMind
that was the limbo, not the multiverse
Not only that, but the Monitors, who are about half the height of Cosmic Armored Superman, were about the same size as the superheroes when they entered Earth-1, and Mandrakk wasn't particularly large either.

So I'd argue that the Orrey of Worlds and Limbo are down-scaled in the Monitor Sphere.

That's how it works in DC.

The higher up in the dimensional structure you go, the more infinitesimal the lower dimensions become. From the perspective of the Monitor Sphere, for example, the multiverse is literally microbial. That's why they call it the "germ world."

When these beings opt to travel to the lower dimensions, their size is adjusted/scaled accordingly.

Originally posted by Galan007
You could certainly argue that the Limbo realm scales far above the 3D multiverse, given that it transcends even the God Sphere.

But that's neither here nor there.

oh yeah certainly, Limbo infinitely > than Sphere of Gods infinitely > than orrery of worlds

Oh shit. It's on like donkey Kong

battle of the maths incoming.......

Magnon is who H1 wishes he'd be

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
battle of the maths incoming.......
Actually, it's not so much about maths as it's about interpretation of what was said on that panel. Astner assumed that "heat" meant temperature whereas I assumed that "heat" meant... heat.

Beyonder

let's not fixated on the heat of ten billion suns, that's more like metaphor than anything. mandrakk and thot robot were not fighting in the the physical realm of the dc multiverse

people still fixated on power of energy beam or how many multiverses did it destroy, should not comment on thot robot thread, period. trying to apply scientific concepts like matter, energy, space, time etc to meta fictional beings is futile.

Thot Robot is superior because of DC's superior cosmology, Nil is infinitely above the 3rd dimensional multiverse, the closest marvel has that resembles dc's higher dimensions is the neutral zone, but the scaling isn't there as far as size and power concerned. The beyond realm certainly has no place in the new marvel cosmology, it is retconned. So it's relative size to marvel's multiverse during the 80s is well...not very relevant.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's how it works in DC.

The higher up in the dimensional structure you go, the more infinitesimal the lower dimensions become. From the perspective of the Monitor Sphere, for example, the multiverse is literally microbial. That's why they call it the "germ world."

When these beings opt to travel to the lower dimensions, their size is adjusted/scaled accordingly.

Doesn't this apply to the Beyonder as well?

Originally posted by Magnon
Heat (energy) should be distinguished from temperature. The energy emitted by a star over its lifetime is ca. 10^44 Joules, therefore the heat of "ten billion suns" equals 10^54 Joules.

If we assume the heat capacity of CAS is 5*10^6 J/K (a rough order-of-magnitude estimate) then the heat of "ten billion suns" would increase his temperature by 2*10^47 K. That's way more than the Planck temperature.

The energy from a star....is this Joule figure you have quoted just the heat energy, or have you accounted for sound and light etc as well (stars are actually really loud, as you would expect from a giant furnace).

Originally posted by Stoic
Doesn't this apply to the Beyonder as well? Yes.

From the Beyond Realm, the Marvel multiverse was literally microbial/germ-esque to Beyonder... Which makes the 'pre-retcon' Beyond Realm about equal to DC's Monitor Sphere, in terms of scale.

You guys must be great at parties.

I have posted on kmc when I was in bars before, very sad state of affairs

Math should be banned on KMC.

Oh BTW, how do you type superscripts (for exponents)?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The energy from a star....is this Joule figure you have quoted just the heat energy, or have you accounted for sound and light etc as well (stars are actually really loud, as you would expect from a giant furnace).
The number I gave is the energy of thermal radiation emitted by the Sun over its lifetime (thermal radiation is one form of heat transfer; the others are conduction and convection). It may be calculated from solar luminosity multiplied by solar lifetime, as I've shown above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_luminosity

Originally posted by Magnon
Ps. Stilt, not everything has to be about d**ks or b**bs. :-O

https://tinyurl.com/u6qamgx

Originally posted by Magnon

Ps. Stilt, not everything has to be about d**ks or b**bs. :-O

true, there's also butthole

butthole is the universe

Why does this thread become math thread?
That attack is metaphorical and taking it as face value is idiotic.

Originally posted by CatL18
Why does this thread become math thread?

You don't know?

We have this awful h1 virus on KMC.

1,000,000 times deadlier than the coronavirus.

femto*

Because this is not a Flash thread

I bet CAS can move as fast as flash

Femto is a character from Berserk, Stilt-CD.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Math should be banned on KMC.

Until Mr. Master creates a new sock account calling himself "Math", I respectfully disagree.

I'm actually surprised there isn't a user named math. I'm sure there was one at some point.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
femto*

Because this is not a Flash thread It's a Reflash thread.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
It's a Reflash thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes.

From the Beyond Realm, the Marvel multiverse was literally microbial/germ-esque to Beyonder... Which makes the 'pre-retcon' Beyond Realm about equal to DC's Monitor Sphere, in terms of scale.

microbial? I thought that beyond realm only made the multiverse a drop in comparison. scans?

Originally posted by alekj019
microbial? I thought that beyond realm only made the multiverse a drop in comparison. scans?

you are weird bro

Originally posted by alekj019
microbial? I thought that beyond realm only made the multiverse a drop in comparison. scans? It's from an interview with Jim Shooter in Marvel Age #27:
https://i.imgur.com/gLSOOhF.jpg
*Pertinent text highlighted.

...Which is pretty much identical to how DC creation is perceived from the Monitor Sphere:
https://i.imgur.com/p8NECKP.jpg


So yeah, the 'pre-retcon' Beyond realm ~ the Monitor Sphere in terms of scale.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's from an interview with Jim Shooter in Marvel Age #27:
https://i.imgur.com/gLSOOhF.jpg
*Pertinent text highlighted.

...Which is pretty much identical to how DC creation is perceived from the Monitor Sphere:
https://i.imgur.com/p8NECKP.jpg


So yeah, the 'pre-retcon' Beyond realm ~ the Monitor Sphere in terms of scale.
Mortal multiverse is some sort of small bubble from the Sphere of gods too, isn't it?

Overvoid>>absolute infinity>>Nil>>Monitor sphere>>infinity>>Limbo>>infinity>>sphere of gods>>infinity>>DC creation

isn't it?

I don't understand what put beyond realm above the sphere of gods.

While I am really not into the 'my favt company has a bigger verse than yours' argument, as I've always said both companies are basically equal in size....I have to ask, the classic marvel cosmology, was it retconned away?

Originally posted by CatL18
I don't understand what put beyond realm above the sphere of gods. For me, it's the description. From the vantage point/scale of the Beyond realm, the mainstream Marvel multiverse was perceived as "paramecia swimming in a drop of water."

From the vantage point/scale of the Monitor Sphere, the mainstream DC multiverse was perceived as "germs."

...Though I agree that an argument could be made that the God Sphere scales close to the Beyond realm.

Originally posted by Genii96
as I've always said both companies are basically equal in size. They really aren't, though.

Where sheer size/scale is concerned, the classic Beyond realm is the vastest realm that Marvel has to offer -- nothing exceeds it(unless you know of a greater dimension in Marvel..?) And per description, the classic Beyond realm is about equal in size/scale to the Monitor Sphere in DC.

Difference is: DC has dimensions that that infinitely out-scale the Monitor Sphere... Which means they infinitely out-scale the Beyond realm as well.

Originally posted by Magnon
I used those same values. If we assume the average solar luminosity is L = 4*10^26 J/s and the lifetime of a (yellow) sun is T = 10^10 years = 3.2*10^17 s, then the total amount of radiative heat transfer (Q) equals

Q = 10^44 J (rounded to one significant figure)

This is the value I used. The panel mentioned "heat" (J), not "power" (J/s) or "flux" or anything else involving a rate of change. Thus the most literal interpretation for the expression "heat of a sun" is the TOTAL amount of radiative heat available from the sun.
You are implying a rate of change. In your case it's the lifespan of the Sun, with a complete energy transfer, no black body radiation, etc. To call this a generous assumption would be an understatement.

It doesn't matter whether or not you hold you hand over a flame for a second or ten seconds, in both cases the flame will have heated your and you would've felt it.

A more reasonable assumption would be that Superman experienced the heating of ten billion suns during the moment he was exposed to Mandrakk's blast.

Another issue is of course the degree exposure, because technically even we're heated by the sun during a winter morning when it peaks over the horizon. But given the context I'd think it's closer to the billion suns' solar luminosity even though it's the theoretical ceiling of what can be reasonably assumed.

The last issue is Cosmic Armor specific heat capacity, which you assumed to be around solid steal. The issue with this is that the specific heat capacity of an object varies with temperature, and particularly in the shift of aggregation states. For instance, stars have a negative heat capacity because of the fusion process.

But, like I said, these are minor issues. Because my point is that substantiates the idea that Monitor Armor Superman is finite, and that natural forces can cause him harm.

I'm putting an emphasis on this because of a good point made in Star Trek, where Q claimed to have traveled back to the Big Bang and compared it to a fireworks show. It's clear from that, that hypernovae, gamma-ray bursts, or any naturally occurring phenomenon isn't enough to make a Q flinch.

I think downplaying CAS with metaphorical statement is futile.
Because both CAS and Mandrakk are not material but pure idea powerd by metafictional narrative.
They are not harmed by any material or conceptual attack because they operate on metafictional plane of existence where almost every cosmology in DC is mere fiction.

Even if some character can harm CAS with multiversal omnipotent attack, CAS can easily adapt and become Infinitely stronger because the story of Superman demands it.
It is the fact confirmed in actual story.

Originally posted by CatL18
I think downplaying CAS with metaphorical statement is futile. Because both CAS and Mandrakk are not material but pure idea powerd by metafictional narrative.
You're free to think that. But we still need something tangible in order to compare these characters to other cosmic characters. And while you can dismiss "the heat of ten billions suns" as metaphorical, you can also accept it as being literal.

Originally posted by CatL18
They are not harmed by any material or conceptual attack because they operate on metafictional plane of existence where almost every cosmology in DC is mere fiction.
The Monitor and the Anti-Monitor were harmed by physical attacks despite being from the Monitor Sphere.

And I think you're misunderstanding metafictional element of the story. Mandrakk was going to destroy the multiverse, by drinking the Bleed (the space in-between the 52 universes) because he's a vampire.

Originally posted by CatL18
Even if some character can harm CAS with multiversal omnipotent attack, CAS can easily adapt and become Infinitely stronger because the story of Superman demands it.
It is the fact confirmed in actual story.
You're referring to this quote.

https://i.imgur.com/eWWPF8R.jpg

To say that, because of that they endlessly adapt is a gross exaggeration. And let's not forget that the Monitor Armor broke down after the fight. Contradicting this idea.

https://i.imgur.com/ML0Rkwjm.jpg

And the idea that you need to be nigh-omnipotent to fight the Monitor Armor doesn't make sense either because Mandrakk wasn't even ultimately defeated by the Monitor Armor, but by the collective effort of the heroes of the Multiverse.

https://i.imgur.com/rGabAVhm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/4wEcXl9m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/20Va7kRm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/JHfg3i5m.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/y41Qdjum.jpg

There was two Mandrakks in that story.

Dax Novu had become powerful by eating the stories of the multiverse unchecked.

Ogama was powerful, but not even a fraction of the way to where Novu was and even then it took another monitor, heaven, hell, all the supermen of the multiverse and all the other characters they rescued from time/space to put him down. A team so powerful it could be assembled only once against the absolute enemy.


The cosmic armor story of Superman Beyond in the highest plane was a meta for the entire story overall, and all the stories overall. Wherein. hope, represented by Superman in these stories, will always prevail in the end.

Originally posted by Galan007


They really aren't, though.

Where sheer size/scale is concerned, the classic Beyond realm is the vastest realm that Marvel has to offer -- nothing exceeds it(unless you know of a greater dimension in Marvel..?) And per description, the classic Beyond realm is about equal in size/scale to the Monitor Sphere in DC.

Difference is: DC has dimensions that that infinitely out-scale the Monitor Sphere... Which means they infinitely out-scale the Beyond realm as well.

Except the problem is you see the marvel multiverses and structures contained within eternity as all 3-D, which makes you think the beyond realm, which I quite bigger, is not impressive, simply because the monitor sphere saw the 3D inhabitants as germs from the perspective of their realm. Marvel Introduced both a 4D and even a 5D realm space way back, and even dimensions above the concept of time as well, which would be Inbetween 4D and 5D if you were to fit them into a cosmology scale. Then the superflow is above all these, and the neutral zone above even that, with the far shore coming after that, with the next known realm being the beyond realm with the realms inbetwen the two 'unkown', From the perspective of one in the beyond realm, all of these are microbial

Marvel writers don't explore these other numbered dimensions nor do they structure their dimensions according to dimensional number as good as DC does, their cosmology structuring coming in old comics, I don't know if you guys still accept old comics here


And as for higher realms, yes, the house of ideas should be well above the beyond realm



But NVM, like I said, I believe both companies are equally Large

Superman still wins

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You guys must be great at parties.

lmao