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pure h2h
Raw skill

Can be anybody from comics

and why

https://i.postimg.cc/v1m56N5T/Iron-Fist-Vol-5-1-Textless.jpg

Captain America

Elektra, Wolverine.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
pure h2h
Raw skill

Can be anybody from comics

and why

https://i.postimg.cc/v1m56N5T/Iron-Fist-Vol-5-1-Textless.jpg


Pure skill wise, he's borderline even with Shang Chi.


Proven by a stalemate fight way back in the 80's, and the fact he traded wins with The Cat, who has three draws with Shang Chi.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Elektra, Wolverine.


Wolverine.


Logan took lessons from Shang, who's about even with Danny. At least going by their direct fight, and indirect showings against common enemies.


Elektra is a maybe. Yeah, he used a hodouken, but he was still pretty even with her up to that point. And Matt never had a real advantage over him in all their fights, except that one time Danny was mimmicking his skills and thus holding himself to a handicap. Even then it was close.

Do you think she'd take Shang Chi?

Personally, I'd say Few ppl in Marvel..Gamora,Mantis,Cap,Maybe BP,Shang Chi,Maybe Stick and Ogun...Possibly Wolverine,Gorgon,Mr X and X23 if we Talking just Pure Skills,No Added Amps/Powers...In DC Cass,Lady Shiva,Maybe Batman and Dragon

Originally posted by cdtm
Wolverine.

Yes, Wolverine.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11133/111334141/6723323-6717739-bonus%2B3.jpg

Originally posted by cdtm
Logan took lessons from Shang, who's about even with Danny. At least going by their direct fight, and indirect showings against common enemies.

Try reading the story:

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And the "training" was about accepting himself, his true nature and stopping allowing Creed to play mind games with him.

Also, Wolverine was trained by great many people in many ways.

That's why he's one of the most skilled martial artists in Marvel, for your information. Far surpassing Danny Rand, who is an amateur.

Not to mention that we know how Danny is jealous of Shang-Chi's skill:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111294954/5427879-1085534315-SC-BP.jpg


Originally posted by cdtm
Elektra is a maybe. Yeah, he used a hodouken, but he was still pretty even with her up to that point. And Matt never had a real advantage over him in all their fights, except that one time Danny was mimmicking his skills and thus holding himself to a handicap. Even then it was close.

He was getting ****ed up and admitted it to Matt.

He wouldn't have resorted to that cheap blast, if he hadn't been getting his ass handed to him.

Originally posted by cdtm
Do you think she'd take Shang Chi?

Why not?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/0/9055/1267080-elektra_shangchi3.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
pure h2h
Raw skill

Can be anybody from comics

and why

https://i.postimg.cc/v1m56N5T/Iron-Fist-Vol-5-1-Textless.jpg

You shouldn't say can, because anything can happen and fighters get lucky. You should ask who is more likely to beat him or who would win a majority of matches against him.

I consider Matt, Elektra, Shang, and Danny pretty close in h2h. Just depending on the writer or the story to determine the winner.

Originally posted by Supermutant
You shouldn't say can, because anything can happen and fighters get lucky. You should ask who is more likely to beat him or who would win a majority of matches against him.

I consider Matt, Elektra, Shang, and Danny pretty close in h2h. Just depending on the writer or the story to determine the winner.

who do you have taking a slight majority (on a good day)

DD probably that radar gives him an edge in h2h

out of all the characters YOU mentioned..... MATT

Not Shiva, Cass, Mantis, Gamora, etc

MATT

How limited is your knowledge on streets just curious

Originally posted by Supermutant
DD probably that radar gives him an edge in h2h



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/69/a5/4c69a53a4fe68ff07d51cf55b2d693db.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
out of all the characters YOU mentioned..... MATT

Not Shiva, Cass, Mantis, Gamora, etc

MATT

How limited is your knowledge on streets just curious

I wasn't naming every character ever. You should be thankful I even posted in your thread. Go pee

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/69/a5/4c69a53a4fe68ff07d51cf55b2d693db.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes, Wolverine.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11133/111334141/6723323-6717739-bonus%2B3.jpg



Try reading the story:



Also, Wolverine was trained by great many people in many ways.

That's why he's one of the most skilled martial artists in Marvel, for your information. Far surpassing Danny Rand, who is an amateur.

Not to mention that we know how Danny is jealous of Shang-Chi's skill:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11129/111294954/5427879-1085534315-SC-BP.jpg




He was getting ****ed up and admitted it to Matt.

He wouldn't have resorted to that cheap blast, if he hadn't been getting his ass handed to him.



Why not?

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/0/9055/1267080-elektra_shangchi3.jpg

He was at a 3.

T'challa's just salty because of the epic beat down and terminal brain damage.

Originally posted by Supermutant
I wasn't naming every character ever. You should be thankful I even posted in your thread. Go pee

somebodys in a good mood

Its usually "AlBeRtO CaNt ReAd Dur hURR AlBeRto U LiED!!! " something something or whatever you guys gossip BUT for the first time you gave a response like a NORMAL debater hahahahaha

props, props. lets keep up the good work

Originally posted by cdtm
He was at a 3.

T'challa's just salty because of the epic beat down and terminal brain damage.

T'Challa restored Danny back to normal while trying not to harm him

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
T'Challa restored Danny back to normal while trying not to harm him


I still can't get over the fact he just happened to have a gadget on him that cleans chi.


I mean, I love Priest on anything Iron Fist or Black Panther, but that was a "Bat Shark Repellant" moment.

Anyways, there's no taking The Cat from him.


Three match's with Shang, and three stalemates, proves he's on Shangs level.

Matt Murdock.

(He's Daredevil, so just you know Alberto)

Didnt Danny state that Shang could defeat him

I liked it best when Danny beat Sabertooth.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I liked it best when Danny beat Sabertooth.


Blinded, too.


People associate him with Wolverine, but he started out as an enemy of Iron Fist.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Didnt Danny state that Shang could defeat him


He did, just before he beat Shang.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
I liked it best when Danny beat Sabertooth.

To be fair, he was a mostly powerless goon during those days.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
To be fair, he was a mostly powerless goon during those days. True, a powerless goon who caught Wolverine regularly and often got the better of him.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Matt Murdock.

(He's Daredevil, so just you know Alberto)

What if there was a devil image present, which amps him?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
True, a powerless goon who caught Wolverine regularly and often got the better of him.

No, Whirly.

He appeared in Uncanny X-Men long after his "adventures" with Danny, Cage, Parker and Felicia.

Only then Claremont decided to make him a Wolverine villain... and to give him an actual powerset rivaling that of Logan.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What if there was a devil image present, which amps him?


Like The Beast?


Shadowland did it, he beat Ghost Rider. And then Danny exercised him with his Chi.


Impossible to know how a straight fight would go, because Iron Fist wasn't using his Chi to hurt him. However, we DO know he can harm otherworldly demons capable of reaping souls from New York, or capable of destroying the world.

Speaking of Shadowland didn't Moon Knight stalemate DD during that event?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Speaking of Shadowland didn't Moon Knight stalemate DD during that event?

There was something, yes.

Moon Knight was in his civies, iirc.


Shadowland DD was hiding his true power, though. He went all out later in the event.

Yeah, Danny only did good early. Matt later stomped Danny along with Peter, Frank etc

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Yeah, Danny only did good early. Matt later stomped Danny along with Peter, Frank etc


Until Danny got serious:


https://66.media.tumblr.com/4aafde17064405cdaaa6a66c735e0c42/tumblr_n82u64xRDH1rvm5qqo2_1280.jpg

Plot device.

That's pretty much what Danny is.


Like the bat belt, except Batman can't bring his belt past a metal detector on a plane.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No, Whirly.

He appeared in Uncanny X-Men long after his "adventures" with Danny, Cage, Parker and Felicia.

Only then Claremont decided to make him a Wolverine villain... and to give him an actual powerset rivaling that of Logan. yeah, I know he was in Iron Fist and Powerman and Iron Fist first, however, he was not portrayed as that much less powerful than when he fought Spidey or the X men, not that much later Stilt.

And he wasn't all that much more powerful in their most recent fight in a bar.

Wasn't Foggy talking some sense into Matt prior to that, weakening the beast's grip on him?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Wasn't Foggy talking some sense into Matt prior to that, weakening the beast's grip on him?


Not sure.


I'd re-read it, but it was just so awful to read once.


Wouldn't surprise me though. The Beast kept getting stronger, until Matt couldn't shake it off without a little positive chi injection.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
yeah, I know he was in Iron Fist and Powerman and Iron Fist first, however, he was not portrayed as that much less powerful than when he fought Spidey or the X men, not that much later Stilt.

Ten years, Whirly.

It took ten years for Creed to get actual super-powers.

Against Danny and Parker, he had no healing factor, which is his main power.

Sorry bro, but you're wrong here. Big time.

Originally posted by cdtm
Not sure.


I'd re-read it, but it was just so awful to read once. I don't know, for a street event it was entertaining as phuck.

https://tinyurl.com/vfhvgpn

Definitely not Shang the Wang Chi

Definitely Grayson though, faster, smarter etc

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://tinyurl.com/vfhvgpn

Shangs so polite.


He knows Danny. Anyone who knows him dossn't give a **** what he thinks.

https://i.ibb.co/rxw512k/chi01.png

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
out of all the characters YOU mentioned..... MATT

Not Shiva, Cass, Mantis, Gamora, etc

MATT

How limited is your knowledge on streets just curious
You're talking like Daredevil is some scrub.

Hes not beating anybody I mentioned

Maybe not Gamora but the others? A case could definitely be made.

Gamora is not a pure MA, anyway.

She has Wolverine-like powerset and Iron Man level strength.

And even factoring that, she's still overrated af.

Wolverine. his healing factor and claws can do the job. as for martial art skills alone, he is one of the best. many times people see wolverine getting bested at the pure skills department, but as was explained already, wolverine relies too much on his healing factor and therefor doesnt really care to get hit, stabbed, shot act act. however, at times when he lost his healing factor, you can see how much ass he kicks when he taps into his skills alone.

Originally posted by Dareangel
Wolverine. his healing factor and claws can do the job. as for martial art skills alone, he is one of the best. many times people see wolverine getting bested at the pure skills department, but as was explained already, wolverine relies too much on his healing factor and therefor doesnt really care to get hit, stabbed, shot act act. however, at times when he lost his healing factor, you can see how much ass he kicks when he taps into his skills alone.


Logans power set disqualifies him.


In skills alone he can keep up with Cap or Danny, but that isn't the same as "beating" them. He has absolutely no feats of besting a top tier MA with pure skills, without his claws or HF supporting him.


While Iron Fist DOES have feats of using pure skills to defeat the likes of Steel Serpent, or a Game of Death like tournament.

Originally posted by cdtm
Logans power set disqualifies him.


In skills alone he can keep up with Cap or Danny, but that isn't the same as "beating" them. He has absolutely no feats of besting a top tier MA with pure skills, without his claws or HF supporting him.


While Iron Fist DOES have feats of using pure skills to defeat the likes of Steel Serpent, or a Game of Death like tournament.

so you asume basically that this is a thread of who is a league above iron fist, rather than who simply can beat him. because if you ask who can beat him, anyone from the top tier can win some or lose some to him. but to put someone a league above him, nobody, because he is at the very top with other top fighters. IMO of course.
as for logan fighting feats and beating tough opponents with pure skills, did you read wolverine manifest destiny? its a nice read to see his skills. of course you already know about his feats such as besting shang chi, besting omega red and lady shiva at the same time without his claws, just h2h combat, i dont recall all his fights, kinda rusty with wolverine, i remember he has wins over daredevil and blade but i dont recall if it was with or without claws. but read manifest destiny its a good one.

Originally posted by Dareangel
so you asume basically that this is a thread of who is a league above iron fist, rather than who simply can beat him. because if you ask who can beat him, anyone from the top tier can win some or lose some to him. but to put someone a league above him, nobody, because he is at the very top with other top fighters. IMO of course.
as for logan fighting feats and beating tough opponents with pure skills, did you read wolverine manifest destiny? its a nice read to see his skills. of course you already know about his feats such as besting shang chi, besting omega red and lady shiva at the same time without his claws, just h2h combat, i dont recall all his fights, kinda rusty with wolverine, i remember he has wins over daredevil and blade but i dont recall if it was with or without claws. but read manifest destiny its a good one.


I'm saying I'd need proof Logan can beat a top tier without the claws or healing factor.

Far as I know, he's always had claws in some form, and the times he lost his HF, never featured him showing off his skills in a martial arts tournament.

Originally posted by cdtm
He has absolutely no feats of besting a top tier MA with pure skills, without his claws or HF supporting him.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3767676-nelson%202.jpg

https://media1.giphy.com/media/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu/200.gif

Originally posted by cdtm
In skills alone he can keep up with Cap or Danny, but that isn't the same as "beating" them. He has absolutely no feats of besting a top tier MA with pure skills, without his claws or HF supporting him.


https://imgur.com/a/15WKz

Also:
https://imgur.com/a/in1PY

We can do this all day.

Another example:

https://imgur.com/a/tuN2z

Dominated the fight, not using his claws till the very end.

None of those leave Logan powerless.



Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


We can do this all day.

Another example:

https://imgur.com/a/tuN2z

Dominated the fight, not using his claws till the very end.

Come on now, Wolverine even mentions his enhancements being something Shang didn't count on.


He still had his HF against Danny and Cap too. He can't swith it off like Danny can reduce his ki output.

In fact, Cap being unable to heal a blood clot like Logan can heal his injury was a specifically stated plot point.

Originally posted by cdtm
Come on now, Wolverine even mentions his enhancements being something Shang didn't count on.

Shang hasn't tagged Logan even once in that fight... aside from that kick which apparently was supposed to mean "thank you for killing my assailants"

Originally posted by cdtm
He still had his HF against Danny and Cap too. He can't swith it off like Danny can reduce his ki output.

In fact, Cap being unable to heal a blood clot like Logan can heal his injury was a specifically stated plot point.

Danny's entire being is infused with mystical chi and Dragon chi, lol.

Wolverine's injury only prevented him from using his claws, meanwhile the blood cot put Cap down for the count. Even though SSS does give him some accelerated healing.

But that's OTHER people not having it. That's a different point.

A clawless, HFless Wolverine gave him a hematoma using his skills and this defeated Cap, a master MA.

Perhaps Jason Todd

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But that's OTHER people not having it. That's a different point.

A clawless, HFless Wolverine gave him a hematoma using his skills and this defeated Cap, a master MA.


Didn't he use his claws to give him the hemotoma?



Yeah, it took skill to do it without Cap noticing, but it's not like he used his bare hands to do it.


I suppose he could have done as well with a knife, maybe.

I can tell you didn't even click the links lol

Never mind, I was misremembering. Read the story before.



Ok, I'll give you that one.

No healing factor, no claws:

1. https://i.imgur.com/DMkuhPV.jpg
2. https://i.imgur.com/pvgrIJ6.jpg
3. https://i.imgur.com/EFnDIg4.jpg

Meanwhile, in the world of Danny boys jerking each other off:

https://tinyurl.com/wok7n5f

That ones a low blow.


But I've seen worse. Some writers throughout the 80's and 90's actually thought the Iron Fist couldn't harm Luke Cage, and wrote as much.

Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't he use his claws to give him the hemotoma?

No.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/e9e384611c54e99bbc61b5d732dee714/tumblr_ny4w03ncmw1rvm5qqo5_1280.jpg

And Cap DEFINITELY noticed it

I was gonna say Val on the first page, but it would just end the thread too quickly.

Originally posted by MrMind
I was gonna say Val on the first page, but it would just end the thread too quickly.

Karate Shit has no showings against his fellow martial artists. And his many different incarnations do not share feats, btw.

He's featless on KMC, sorry to burst your bubble.

master of all known martial arts in 31st century, too skilled.

Originally posted by MrMind
I was gonna say Val on the first page, but it would just end the thread too quickly.



Val
Sa'ar
Midnighter

On the DC side.

midnighter is wildstorm, prep

dc midnighter is garbage

Originally posted by MrMind
midnighter is wildstorm, prep

dc midnighter is garbage


Even Wildstorm MN struggled against Zealot.


Proves the battle computer only does so much against higher stats and skils, which Danny has both of in abundance.

I love you cd, but midnighter is just too good. when did MN struggle with Zealot? zealot is top level and midnighter is above her ( out of context dreamwar batman scan posting in 3,2,1...)

Iron Fist has tremendous power but it's no use if he can't hit MN, with battle computer and all

https://66.media.tumblr.com/c768f8c6ae9b97da71e242f3262670d3/tumblr_inline_o4v9hi6WDD1r3j5ra_540.jpg

https://66.media.tumblr.com/cd573ccfc09f288bd5c11db1caa22c93/tumblr_inline_o4v9i3aDfA1r3j5ra_540.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No healing factor, no claws:

1. https://i.imgur.com/DMkuhPV.jpg
2. https://i.imgur.com/pvgrIJ6.jpg
3. https://i.imgur.com/EFnDIg4.jpg

Meanwhile, in the world of Danny boys jerking each other off:

https://tinyurl.com/wok7n5f Yeah, I went back and reread it, you're quite right.

Whirly is looking at that last IF panel and thinking WTF is with his bent wrists lol.

Originally posted by MrMind
master of all known martial arts in 31st century, too skilled.

Master of getting stalemated by Batman limiting himself to street fighting or not being familiar with anti-grav fighting style, you mean.

master of "control"

https://i.imgur.com/LOjzc66.jpg

That scan got reposted more times than entire KMC changed their underwear.

Karate Kid being like Karnak sure doesn't help your argument, knowing Karnak's track record against martial artists.

Oh.

At least Karnak has a track record.

https://i.imgur.com/9DNfpdh.png

Call me when he does something notable.

He's in the same category as Mandarin and Karnak. Good for circus, but afraid of fisticuffs.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Whirly is looking at that last IF panel and thinking WTF is with his bent wrists lol. haha

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11/114690/2183332-val3.jpg

Originally posted by MrMind
midnighter is wildstorm, prep

dc midnighter is garbage

DC Midnighter had an awesome series and one of the only WS characters that interacted well with DC.

Originally posted by MrMind
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11/114690/2183332-val3.jpg


https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Immortal-Weapons/Issue-5?id=95120#19

Originally posted by MrMind
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11/114690/2183332-val3.jpg

Val also got the better of Batman.