Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

*cant be multiversal

Flash can use full capacity but no bfr

no pis or cis is allowed

https://i.postimg.cc/VJZqm4pG/walop.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/CZZQgRP8/esl.jpg

To beat a speedblitz, one either needs:

1. High end passive durability (so no shields, but pure 'always on' durability - this can also be something like intangibility) or

2. Extreme speed of your own.

Maybe even a combo of the two, so having intangibility, for example, plus extreme superspeed which allows you to 'activate' it before Flash lands a punch/speedsteals.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
To beat a speedblitz, one either needs:

1. High end passive durability (so no shields, but pure 'always on' durability - this can also be something like intangibility) or

2. Extreme speed of your own.

Maybe even a combo of the two, so having intangibility, for example, plus extreme superspeed which allows you to 'activate' it before Flash lands a punch/speedsteals.

heres the mutants i had in mind i THINk that could possibly win lol (ik its not 5 but still)

Franklin,Legion,Nate,Iceman,Magneto,Apocalypse,Vul
can,Sebastion Shaw,New Sun,Marquise of Death,Jim Jaspers,Mr M,Cable

Shaman Nate, Franklin

That's it.

Legion is multiversal so doesn't count

And how do they do against speedsteal?

Originally posted by MrMind
Shaman Nate, Franklin

That's it.

Legion is multiversal so doesn't count

lmao what you mean "thats it"

Darwin, Colossus, Elixir,
Jean Grey, Magneto, Iceman etc

Shaw and Bishop can absorb kinetic energy btw

Flash isn't Immune to Tp or TK..his 2-3 feats of resistance doesn't trump 20 feats of it working..especially in a Random

Shaw and Bishop both have limits.

Still not sure how that counters speed steal, however. Especially if he takes all their energy, so they aren't even able to think....

This goes for TP/TK people too.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lmao what you mean "thats it"

Darwin, Colossus, Elixir,
Jean Grey, Magneto, Iceman etc

They'd get one shotted

Mutants are garbage

Flash solos entire xmen rosters on comicvine, the holiest of holy battle board according to you, if you are interested I'll send you links lmao

Thats BS

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaw and Bishop both have limits.

Still not sure how that counters speed steal, however. Especially if he takes all their energy, so they aren't even able to think....

This goes for TP/TK people too.

Hmmmmm tp... how fast is flash mind is

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Shaw and Bishop both have limits.

Still not sure how that counters speed steal, however. Especially if he takes all their energy, so they aren't even able to think....

This goes for TP/TK people too.

They don't counter, they'd die

The people Alberto listed would be dead before even moving a finger

How r any of mutants gonna tp when they are dead, speed of thoughts is infinity slower than speed of light

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Hmmmmm tp... how fast is flash mind is

Attosecond

Thats actually not true lmao

https://i.postimg.cc/Wt02yF6F/6830999-jez0sin.jpg

What are we supposed to take away from this other than that writer is absolutely retarded

Not to mention absolutely moot point as flash can travel millions times faster than light

A complete list of MU mutants that can beat Flash without PIS:
- Forgetmenot

Thus the problem in the OP has no answer.

Flash vs an 'average man':

https://i.postimg.cc/cL2WbyVj/RCO010-1556095175.jpg
....

https://i.postimg.cc/xdmQrpQd/RCO011-1556095175.jpg

So yeah, even if your mutant is 1,000 times faster than an average man....Flash would still whup them.

And here he is against a lightspeed attack. Note how he searches the entire crowd of ~500,000 people (iirc), finds the culprits, picks them up and throws them into GL's lightbeam:
https://i.postimg.cc/cJ2VjNwv/11.jpg
...
https://i.postimg.cc/q7SL0Jmd/12.jpg

He can create entire strategies in nanoseconds:
https://i.postimg.cc/bYCBTHXV/4159557-strategize-in-nanoseconds.jpg

And most importantly - is faster than thought:
https://i.postimg.cc/QMzvKrMX/10.jpg

Light travels 0.03 centimeters in a picosecond. If the Lantern's blast was about to hit WW in a picosecond the blast must have been significantly FTL.

Originally posted by Magnon
Light travels 0.03 centimeters in a picosecond. If the Lantern's blast was about to hit WW in a picosecond the blast must have been significantly FTL.

It didn't LOOK like it was about to hit her when Flash threw the Martians in - maybe he was erring on the side of caution by giving himself 'only' a picosecond.

Or he was so fast, he didn't even need that picosecond to find the guys.

Flash isn't unhittable TBH, he gets saved from PIS

https://i.postimg.cc/754mSjh5/pis.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It didn't LOOK like it was about to hit her when Flash threw the Martians in - maybe he was erring on the side of caution by giving himself 'only' a picosecond.

Or he was so fast, he didn't even need that picosecond to find the guys.
Yeah, maybe the blast had indeed only advanced 0.03 cm while Flash was looking for the martians. Which raises the question why he chose to do it in a picosecond when a nanosecond would've been fine. Bloody showoff.

Anytime he gets hit or is affected by people slower than him, it's PIS.

Thats every comic though

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
To beat a speedblitz, one either needs:

1. High end passive durability (so no shields, but pure 'always on' durability - this can also be something like intangibility) or

2. Extreme speed of your own.

Maybe even a combo of the two, so having intangibility, for example, plus extreme superspeed which allows you to 'activate' it before Flash lands a punch/speedsteals.

This is the only answer required.

He is simply too fast. Dude evacuated a whole city of 532,000 people as a nuclear bomb was exploding, transported them in groups of twos and threes (meaning tens of thousands of trips BACK AND FORTH), transported them to a place 35 MILES away (in twos and threes - 532,000 people) ....and did this in 0.00001 of a MICROsecond.

Note that KMC fights start with someone half a kilometer away. 500 feet. Against a person who did the above in 0.00001 microseconds.

This is why in my opinion Flash should not be used for MOST fights. Without PIS/CIS he is simply TOO fast.

He is not invincible - but there are very few non-cosmic characters who can beat him without PIS/CIS.

So, even though many mutants can kill Flash if he is just standing doing nothing, if he decides to fight back there are very few non Uber characters that can match him.

Originally posted by spetznaz
This is the only answer required.

He is simply too fast. Dude evacuated a whole city of 532,000 people as a nuclear bomb was exploding, transported them in groups of twos and threes (meaning tens of thousands of trips BACK AND FORTH), transported them to a place 35 MILES away (in twos and threes - 532,000 people) ....and did this in 0.00001 of a MICROsecond.

Note that KMC fights start with someone half a kilometer away. 500 feet. Against a person who did the above in 0.00001 microseconds.

This is why in my opinion Flash should not be used for MOST fights. Without PIS/CIS he is simply TOO fast.

He is not invincible - but there are very few non-cosmic characters who can beat him without PIS/CIS.

So, even though many mutants can kill Flash if he is just standing doing nothing, if he decides to fight back there are very few non Uber characters that can match him.

Not sure if you know about these mutants:

Jubilee.
Wraith
Skin
Cypher
Stacy X
Maggot
Wing

^All these guys will kill Flash without breaking a sweat.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Thats every comic though

Doesn't matter - not that it's true.

Aren't you the one who says that if a comic doesn't give an explanation, it should be ignored no matter how many times it happens?

Anyway, I literally showed multiple comics where he's definitely faster than a human. And I showed a comic where he is EXPLICITLY faster than thought. So no, it's not EVERY comic.

If a slower character affects a faster character without any context - that's PIS.

Moreover, Flash has shown multiple times that he's faster than thought. It's literally what he says:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11131/111310129/6053000-flash%20vs%20though%20speed.jpg

Originally posted by spetznaz
This is the only answer required.

He is simply too fast. Dude evacuated a whole city of 532,000 people as a nuclear bomb was exploding, transported them in groups of twos and threes (meaning tens of thousands of trips BACK AND FORTH), transported them to a place 35 MILES away (in twos and threes - 532,000 people) ....and did this in 0.00001 of a MICROsecond.

Note that KMC fights start with someone half a kilometer away. 500 feet. Against a person who did the above in 0.00001 microseconds.

This is why in my opinion Flash should not be used for MOST fights. Without PIS/CIS he is simply TOO fast.

He is not invincible - but there are very few non-cosmic characters who can beat him without PIS/CIS.

So, even though many mutants can kill Flash if he is just standing doing nothing, if he decides to fight back there are very few non Uber characters that can match him.

there are only four kinds of characters that can beat CIS off full capacity Flash/Zoom

1. reality warpers (franklin, mjj, legion etc)
2. characters that can instantly reform themselves (doctor manhattan etc)
3. toon force (mxy, the mask, bugs bunny etc)
4. faster than the flash/zoom (there are none)

Wally is literally "faster than speed"
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11138/111385609/7213210-1aa85263-c849-4318-93aa-ad9dc124857c.jpeg

current/past marvel mutants that can beat Barry/Wally

1. Legion
2. Shaman Nate
3. Franklin
4. Mister M
5. MJJ

I'm missing a few but it's a very short list

even someone powerful like Wanda, would get one shotted as she does not have the durability to tank the imp or the reaction to dodge the punch

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
*cant be multiversal

Flash can use full capacity but no bfr

no pis or cis is allowed

https://i.postimg.cc/VJZqm4pG/walop.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/CZZQgRP8/esl.jpg

So are you saying that PIS and CIS rules are off?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
So are you saying that PIS and CIS rules are off?

Yeah

Saint, when we use people at their best, does consistency not matter too? I wanna know Because For every High feat its 20 Low ones to match, So what exactly do we go by

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
To beat a speedblitz, one either needs:

1. High end passive durability (so no shields, but pure 'always on' durability - this can also be something like intangibility) or

2. Extreme speed of your own.

Maybe even a combo of the two, so having intangibility, for example, plus extreme superspeed which allows you to 'activate' it before Flash lands a punch/speedsteals.


If you're thinking Juggernaut, that invulnerability wouldn't stop a speed force dump.


Possibly not even a 100% kinetic energy steal. Depends on how his enchantment to always move forward interacts with the Speed Force.

@Albert: Full Capacity. Honestly, have a read of forum rules, It would really solve a lot of issues people have.

On the forum we have three things in play in generic matches.

1. Full Capacity on
2. PIS off
3. CIS/CIP on.

So what does this mean? Let's take Spiderman as an example.

1. Full Capacity on means he will use his speed to its full capacity
2. PIS off means he's not getting tagged by slower characters
3. CIS/CIP on means that Spidey isn't going to start the match emptying his webshooters and choking his opponents to death, or using his hands to rip faces off (even though there are 1 or 2 scans out there showing he can).

We still argue about their characters. It's not 'here's what I would do with their powers'.

However, you have taken CIS/CIP off now. And PIS is off as default. So now, it's basically what Carver would call 'forum Flash'. He does whatever he can, whenever he can.

Full Capacity:


and:

Originally posted by cdtm
If you're thinking Juggernaut, that invulnerability wouldn't stop a speed force dump.


Possibly not even a 100% kinetic energy steal. Depends on how his enchantment to always move forward interacts with the Speed Force.

I guess I should've clarified, within the parameters of this thread.

BFR is off.

Saint, question

Is it pis when flash gets tagged by non speedsters

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Saint, question

Is it pis when flash gets tagged by non speedsters

Depends on the context. Is he fully at 100% (so not mindcontrolled, or poisoned or whatever), and knows he's in a fight? Are there examples you are thinking of?

https://i.postimg.cc/phTyfsbN/wdr.jpg


Saved..by...P....I....S

https://i.postimg.cc/QBFRc744/ybh.jpg

it's a comic book ffs. the battles would get boring if flash just blitzed every opponent he faced in the first attosecond of every battle.

but in a forum setting his powers arent gimped by the plot.

Originally posted by MrMind
Shaman Nate, Franklin

That's it.

Legion is multiversal so doesn't count what did legion do?

Saint in that exact panel you posted

https://i.postimg.cc/JsncpCw0/Screenshot-130.png

"I can move faster than you think", proceeds to get his head frozen

Also Thing is comics that a good tend to tell the truth about their characters like in flash's case they need to consume a shit ton of calories to keep up with the speeds they move or the fact that they still need to stop and think before making a move which completely kills the faster than though argument etc.

forgot to add, with no bfr there's another list of people
5. beings that are completely invulnerable to physical attacks (Juggernaut)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess I should've clarified, within the parameters of this thread.

BFR is off.


Whoops, my mistake! Missed the "No bfr" stip.


Options like messing with brain waves may work, or may not. That's the problem with magic.


Did I mention Iron Fist's magic Iron Fist went right through Speedballs kinetic shield and KO'd him? I'll be honest, I may be a fan but that kind of schtick annoys me.

flash can also time travel, so go back in time (if it doesn't count as self bfr), and kill someone before they got their power or kill their parents

using CIS off Flash is just like using Professor Zoom lol

Mrmind, just curious. why Nate and Franklin?
How are they beating Flash IYO

Nate can enter Planck time and Franklin can work in yoctoseconds.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nate can enter Planck time and Franklin can work in yoctoseconds.

Not sure if That faster than the fastest Flash has ever moved

This is interesting though.
If DC ever says he is faster, they are using a made up term to describe it.

https://www.chemistryviews.org/details/education/5102621/What_is_a_Yoctosecond.html

Originally posted by MrMind
speed of thoughts is infinity slower than speed of light

https://i.ibb.co/Y7W4Hnx/xavier.jpg

https://media3.giphy.com/media/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu/200.gif

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
https://i.ibb.co/Y7W4Hnx/xavier.jpg

https://media3.giphy.com/media/1AIeYgwnqeBUxh6juu/200.gif

what does that prove other than some writers are retarded? the speed of thought is how fast impulses go from your brain to your body. it's measurable.

here's really how fast speed of thought is
https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml

and even if we entertain the dumb idea that telepath has speed of thoughts rival the speed of light

Flash has feats suggesting he can run millions times faster than light

Ah wel.

Flash > Light = or > or < Thought

https://i.postimg.cc/QMzvKrMX/10.jpg

AND:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/2/27470/2267507-block_psi_attacks.jpg

AND:

https://i.postimg.cc/zXbCKTFr/RCO015-1579086504.jpg

Everyone moves Faster then Thought..🙄

https://i.postimg.cc/TyVBF3Tf/lso.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Everyone moves Faster then Thought..🙄

https://i.postimg.cc/TyVBF3Tf/lso.jpg

Hehe. Is that canon?

Originally posted by MrMind
What are we supposed to take away from this other than that writer is absolutely retarded

Not to mention absolutely moot point as flash can travel millions times faster than light

It's not just that writer:

https://imgur.com/a/Suh31DW
https://imgur.com/a/QTncHUZ
https://imgur.com/a/YihGFiP

If we go by that, Magneto should be able to beat him.

https://i.imgur.com/VhB35Xs.jpg

Originally posted by TheHulkster
It's not just that writer:

https://imgur.com/a/Suh31DW
https://imgur.com/a/QTncHUZ
https://imgur.com/a/YihGFiP

If we go by that, Magneto should be able to beat him.

https://i.imgur.com/VhB35Xs.jpg

Which still relies on Magneto's reactions.

Do any of you think you normal humans think you can react to a bullets? To lightrays?

Even if you doubled, tripled, quadrupled your speeds, you still won't be able to react in time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Doesn't matter - not that it's true.

Aren't you the one who says that if a comic doesn't give an explanation, it should be ignored no matter how many times it happens?

Anyway, I literally showed multiple comics where he's definitely faster than a human. And I showed a comic where he is EXPLICITLY faster than thought. So no, it's not EVERY comic.

If a slower character affects a faster character without any context - that's PIS.

Moreover, Flash has shown multiple times that he's faster than thought. It's literally what he says:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11131/111310129/6053000-flash%20vs%20though%20speed.jpg

https://m.imgur.com/a/Suh31DW

Originally posted by TheHulkster
https://m.imgur.com/a/Suh31DW

Superceded by more recent comics. Yours is old. Mine are (plural) new

Originally posted by Galan007
Nate can enter Planck time and Franklin can work in yoctoseconds.


Key word "enter".


Scans or context for Franklin?


Flash works natively in quantum space, he can blitz before Nate even fires off the neurons to enter.

Originally posted by cdtm
Key word "enter".


Scans or context for Franklin?


Flash works natively in quantum space, he can blitz before Nate even fires off the neurons to enter.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140659/4325003-3963498-ff%2B%2316%2B%282014%29%2B-%2Bpage%2B15.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140659/4325003-3963498-ff%2B%2316%2B%282014%29%2B-%2Bpage%2B15.jpg


Thanks.


If those scans are all that exist, it's very vague on detail.


Does he perceive at quantum speeds all the time? Does he need to reality alter himself first?


Is he only talking about the speed his powers operate at, as if it's a gun?


Are there any examples of speedsters attempting to blitz him? Or if not that, reaction feats?

*shrug*

Originally posted by MrMind
what does that prove other than some writers are retarded? the speed of thought is how fast impulses go from your brain to your body. it's measurable.

here's really how fast speed of thought is
https://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidParizh.shtml

and even if we entertain the dumb idea that telepath has speed of thoughts rival the speed of light

Flash has feats suggesting he can run millions times faster than light

Flash also has a history of getting sodomized by telepathic apes.

I just want to know does the flash ever stop moving and have a conversation like regular people??? Who just starts a fight a mftl+++++ speeds?
Whats to stop the flash from ending up like this? Use your imagination and replace the staff with a TK field:

https://i.postimg.cc/GTn6MK3p/fls.jpg


Also:
https://i.postimg.cc/rdXV61wv/save.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/BtsCSkzv/rgb.jpg

Saved by....

https://i.postimg.cc/8sJrVHpC/sped.jpg


Everytime the speed blitz argument comes up I wonder why nobody understands that most speed blitz situations don't happen from story telling stand point is there too many way it could end like this.
https://i.postimg.cc/xXYw262D/ruys.jpg

Originally posted by TheHulkster
It's not just that writer:

https://imgur.com/a/Suh31DW
https://imgur.com/a/QTncHUZ
https://imgur.com/a/YihGFiP

If we go by that, Magneto should be able to beat him.

https://i.imgur.com/VhB35Xs.jpg

Lol...even Flash admitted he's slower than thought.

This is the main reason why you can not apply real world crap to comic books majority of the time. They do not follow the same principles.

Originally posted by MrMind
Shaman Nate, Franklin

That's it.

Legion is multiversal so doesn't count

This

Originally posted by TheHulkster
If we go by that, Magneto should be able to beat him.

https://i.imgur.com/VhB35Xs.jpg

Plus Magneto's reactions are 15x faster than everybody elses. His speed of thought is way too fast for Flash.

One of the silliest things about the forum rules is the attempt to specify a number for the "speed of thought", whatever that means. IMO the whole topic makes no sense.

If speed of thought is measured in terms of the speed of neuron impulses then it should be sub-C by definition, but obviously that changes in comics, where it varies wildly between characters. A character who has super-C reactions has to have super-C speed of thought, for instance. And telepaths/telekinetics are often treated as gaining incredibly fast speed of thought once they reach a certain tier (see God Cable somehow conducting fine atomic manipulation while fighting Surfer at super speed around the globe). I'm sure there are a ton of other examples of common scenarios affecting that sort of internal 'speed of thought'.

On the other hand, comics also use "speed of thought" in a more metaphysical sense, to talk about the speed at which a thought races from a person's brain to the place that the person is targeting... like Xavier casting his mind across star systems or Magik being able to instantly create a portal to the moon. Depending on the scenario, this speed is either actually instantaneous or there is some sort of delay between thought and effect but the process is still much faster than C, because of comic book science.

Either category makes a very stupid metric to measure Flash's speed. The first is so subjective because we are more than aware that comic book characters vary wildly in their thinking speeds. The second category is so vague it almost isn't worth discussing, IMO, except that it gets brought up in confusing narration all the time.

In all likelihood:

If Flash were in position X when Invisible Woman completed a thought to wrap X in a forcefield, I think Flash would get wrapped in a forcefield (he's just vibrate through, but whatever). Pulling this off would require either attacking Flash unawares, incredible luck, or some almost PIS-level planning and anticipation (see Deathstroke stabbing Flash).

On the other hand, if Flash were in position X when Invisible Woman initially reacted and started forming the thought to create a forcefield, Flash should/would be long gone by the time the forcefield appeared.

Colossus... This guy lol.

LMFAO

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I just want to know does the flash ever stop moving and have a conversation like regular people??? Who just starts a fight a mftl+++++ speeds?
Whats to stop the flash from ending up like this? Use your imagination and replace the staff with a TK field:

https://i.postimg.cc/GTn6MK3p/fls.jpg


Also:
https://i.postimg.cc/rdXV61wv/save.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/BtsCSkzv/rgb.jpg

Saved by....

https://i.postimg.cc/8sJrVHpC/sped.jpg


Everytime the speed blitz argument comes up I wonder why nobody understands that most speed blitz situations don't happen from story telling stand point is there too many way it could end like this.
https://i.postimg.cc/xXYw262D/ruys.jpg


Flash literally got up and walked away from an explosion that went off as he was sleeping.



Batman's entire anti Flash strategy was based on the fact he can reflexively vibrate through a bullet fired while napping, as it hits his skin.

Originally posted by Smurph
Plus Magneto's reactions are 15x faster than everybody elses. His speed of thought is way too fast for Flash.

Is not the 15x his physical reaction which wouldn't represent the speed of application of magnetic power?

Wouldn't that which applies to Sue Richards apply to him?

Pretty much. Cassandra Nova healed from a broken neck in seconds, and was chopped in half by Cyclops.

it's CIS off forum flash lol

1.I fail to see why Flash can't phase through Nova 1 million times under a second, till only a pile of poo left

2. time travel back and kill professor x's parents, he does it so instantly it doesn't count as self bfr

same with wanda, can't will herself back into existence if she's dead instantly, like a couple hundred IMPs under nanosecond would do. there will be nothing left of wanda to warp herself back. her reality power has been retconned to global level, not the multiversal powerhouse you guys are still thinking of anymore

successful thread

You think too small.

What if Flash created an entire army of Flashes all from the future?

https://i.postimg.cc/qBXzKf5K/5EZvoLO.jpg

That's how I successfully thrashed Albert in our first BZ.

^the judge even confirmed as to how vague that scan was. Wally has never been able to do that ever

Originally posted by StyleTime


Generally, abstract or abstract level characters don't seem bound by laws governing regular folks. I'm not sure how much they care about speed or conventional damage.

Celeste Cuckoo w/ Phoenix did similar to Wanda when Wolverine basically sliced her head into thirds. Same thing when Phoenix Five Emma reformed after being shattered into pieces. Neither had the full Phoenix Force behind them.

Don't forget about 100% Phoenix Cyclops who got stabbed in the face.

But you're wasting your time here --- those DC bois think someone like Wildcat could solo the entire Marvel omniverse

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
heres the mutants i had in mind i THINk that could possibly win lol (ik its not 5 but still)

Franklin,Legion,Nate,Iceman,Magneto,Apocalypse,Vul
can,Sebastion Shaw,New Sun,Marquise of Death,Jim Jaspers,Mr M,Cable

How does any of those characters deal with the fact that they will be statues to Flash for billions of years?

Remember 1 second to an attosecond is like 37.71 billion years to a single second.
Speedsteal isn't necessary since the characters will always be frozen for billions of years in Flash's perspective.

wow he got stabbed in the face, that changes everything

Originally posted by MrMind
it's CIS off forum flash lol

1.I fail to see why Flash can't phase through Nova 1 million times under a second, till only a pile of poo left

2. time travel back and kill professor x's parents, he does it so instantly it doesn't count as self bfr

same with wanda, can't will herself back into existence if she's dead instantly, like a couple hundred IMPs under nanosecond would do. there will be nothing left of wanda to warp herself back. her reality power has been retconned to global level, not the multiversal powerhouse you guys are still thinking of anymore


You're on the right track.



Genis-Vell was immortal. You could shoot him, tear him into pieces, and he's eventually reform.


So how did Zemo beat him when hs threatened the entire universe?


By tearing him into itty bitty pieces, and shunting each of those pieces into a dimensional pocket in the Dark Dimension.



Flash can do something like this. Tear up Nova, and scatter her to opposite ends of the galaxy.

not to mention, it's not physical powerhouse genis here we are talking about

it's a frail old woman, who can easily be ripped to shreds, limbs torn piece by piece, head off the body

scatter her like you said does work fine, imagine Flash throwing pieces of Nova across cosmo like pitching a baseball lmao

Originally posted by MrMind
wow he got stabbed in the face, that changes everything

And in the brain.

Killing moves don't work on Phoenix hosts, that's the point.

And Flash won't even use any killing moves, as it's against his very character.

CIS is off though

But Alberto never took his time on reading up on the extended CIP rules

He removed Flash's stupidity, not his entire personality.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Killing moves don't work on Phoenix hosts, that's the point.


https://imgur.com/a/Pz9wjam

She wants to die in this thread now?

Flash gets humiliated by talking apes and powerless Mysterio-level thugs.

Beak and Ugly John could take Flash, on his bad day.

Magik would wreck Flash js

ah the good ol "void wanted to die" argument, fun times

somehow in marvel wanting to die magically lower their durability

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Magik would wreck Flash js

your thread backfired like they always do

saying "x wrecks y" without a shred of evidence is always fun without any arguments to back it up, isn't it?

kinda like "Red Hood would wreck Magik js" you see this kind of verbal nonsense diarrhea alberto? that's what most of your posts look like

It's not about durability, it's more about their will to come back.

Originally posted by MrMind
your thread backfired like they always do

saying "x wrecks y" without a shred of evidence is always fun without any arguments to back it up, isn't it?

kinda like "Red Hood would wreck Magik js" you see this kind of verbal nonsense diarrhea alberto? that's what most of your posts look like

He's doing it to gain attention - he does it as a way to bump the thread and 'stimulate' debate because his ego is tied to it's success. The more people reply and engage, the bigger he feels.

Alberto is the last beacon of KMC activity, as sad as it is.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's doing it to gain attention - he does it as a way to bump the thread and 'stimulate' debate because his ego is tied to it's success. The more people reply and engage, the bigger he feels.

all of my threads gain activity because i am THE best debater on this site. FACT

people ENGAGE because ITS me.

Deny it all you want LMAO

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Alberto is the last beacon of KMC activity, as sad as it is.
Beggars can't really be choosers, I guess.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You think too small.

What if Flash created an entire army of Flashes all from the future?

https://i.postimg.cc/qBXzKf5K/5EZvoLO.jpg

That's how I successfully thrashed Albert in our first BZ.

Flash looks very different in those scans.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Flash looks very different in those scans.

Cool. You should read Heroes in Crisis. Wally sends a clone back from the future.

Where are you in Brainac consuming Imperiex?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool. You should read Heroes in Crisis. Wally sends a clone back from the future.

Where are you in Brainac consuming Imperiex?

Army of one?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Army of one?

Are you ignoring my Imperiex question?

Originally posted by MrMind

same with wanda, can't will herself back into existence if she's dead instantly, like a couple hundred IMPs under nanosecond would do. there will be nothing left of wanda to warp herself back. her reality power has been retconned to global level, not the multiversal powerhouse you guys are still thinking of anymore
Even after the global retcon, the effects were still described as trans-temporal. It's unclear, but this might explain why Wanda dropped dead before reviving herself. I think some levels of power don't fully obey natural principles(moreso than normal comic book logic), even time or death.

Originally posted by MrMind
https://imgur.com/a/Pz9wjam

That is a Phoenix-created clone body that it allowed to "die" here. It immediately went to merge with the real Jean afterwards. It winds up in Madelyne but it was never actually dead. Same way Magneto "killed" Jean/Phoenix but she really just ascended to go change the timeline.

context huh. not surprised. dc stans are used to googling

Originally posted by StyleTime
Even after the global retcon, the effects were still described as trans-temporal. It's unclear, but this might explain why Wanda dropped dead before reviving herself. I think some levels of power don't fully obey natural principles(moreso than normal comic book logic), even time or death.

That is a Phoenix-created clone body that it allowed to "die" here. It immediately went to merge with the real Jean afterwards. It winds up in Madelyne but it was never actually dead. Same way Magneto "killed" Jean/Phoenix but she really just ascended to go change the timeline.
Phoenix possessing Maddy despite it's apparent "death" on the moon, as Sinister notes.

STYLE THATS why I don't be wasting time. i just tell be telling these dudes to READ. always expect out of context scans from mr mind
hilarious lmao

Style really knows his shit.

Same as Alberto.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Same as Alberto.

https://media.tenor.com/images/83d3b6d69d66da8e4f9bb93c4ca17621/tenor.gif

Great Deadpool gif. I'm gonna post it over herochet!

it's nice to see alberto's cheerlead before taking 2 weeks off

Originally posted by StyleTime
Even after the global retcon, the effects were still described as trans-temporal. It's unclear, but this might explain why Wanda dropped dead before reviving herself. I think some levels of power don't fully obey natural principles(moreso than normal comic book logic), even time or death.



That is a Phoenix-created clone body that it allowed to "die" here. It immediately went to merge with the real Jean afterwards. It winds up in Madelyne but it was never actually dead. Same way Magneto "killed" Jean/Phoenix but she really just ascended to go change the timeline.

1. why do you think wanda is instantly dead after a shot through the chest here? you don't instantly die if you are shot through the chest. this gives her time to warp and undo the injury.
she would however be disintegrate to nothingness if she gets IMP'd couple hundred times in this battle, with her next to nothing durability or subpar reaction time

2. nobody is discussing white phoenix here. of course she can resurrect herself. you gotta prove she or other phoenix avatars have the durability to take the punches or has the reaction to doge, and it's not just Jean, the goalpost was talking about Scott so we discuss other avatars as well.
avatars of phoenix force still can be affected and that count as a forum win. cough...shi'ar laser cannon...cough......xorn....cough

Apocalypse

Originally posted by carver9
Apocalypse

Flash throws a table at him

even Phil wouldn't argue poccy or magneto to beat flash, and he's their biggest fan

Originally posted by StyleTime
Even after the global retcon, the effects were still described as trans-temporal. It's unclear, but this might explain why Wanda dropped dead before reviving herself. I think some levels of power don't fully obey natural principles(moreso than normal comic book logic), even time or death.



That is a Phoenix-created clone body that it allowed to "die" here. It immediately went to merge with the real Jean afterwards. It winds up in Madelyne but it was never actually dead. Same way Magneto "killed" Jean/Phoenix but she really just ascended to go change the timeline.

You're talking about the PF living on after a host dies.

If Jean was killed, and the PF moved on, I'd consider that a forum win. Because Jean is the character, while PF is just a force of nature that empowers her.

Originally posted by MrMind

1. why do you think wanda is instantly dead after a shot through the chest here? you don't instantly die if you are shot through the chest. this gives her time to warp and undo the injury.
she would however be disintegrate to nothingness if she gets IMP'd couple hundred times in this battle, with her next to nothing durability or subpar reaction time

2. nobody is discussing white phoenix here. of course she can resurrect herself. you gotta prove she or other phoenix avatars have the durability to take the punches or has the reaction to doge, and it's not just Jean, the goalpost was talking about Scott so we discuss other avatars as well.
avatars of phoenix force still can be affected and that count as a forum win. cough...shi'ar laser cannon...cough......xorn....cough
The intent seemed to be to show Wanda died. Not only do the reactions match, but she totally slumped to the ground limp. I don't see other reasons for her to collapse like that. If her powers do function trans-temporally, it makes sense she could reach back and undo it. It's kinda like what Phoenix explained: you're already at a point in time but also waiting for yourself to arrive. No guarantees but it's what I lean towards. It's also why I avoid abstract threads because they make no sense.

I showed others. You're focused on durability, but I'm not sure it matters, especially considering Phoenix allowed those to happen. Emma didn't even have the full force and recovered from being shattered though. I don't foresee a forum win that way.
Originally posted by cdtm
You're talking about the PF living on after a host dies.

If Jean was killed, and the PF moved on, I'd consider that a forum win. Because Jean is the character, while PF is just a force of nature that empowers her.
I moreso meant Phoenix choosing to kill off a facsimile.

Jean didn't die and the Phoenix didn't leave. She created a creepy Twilight Zone suburb where she lived as a waitress and talks to dead people.

Without bfr I guess Flash can't beat Phoenix.


But the threat said no universal powers, which I assume Phoenix is.


Speed force dump should work on a Phoenix, since it was originally used by Jay Garrick to defeat Spectre munching King of Tears.

Originally posted by cdtm
Without bfr I guess Flash can't beat Phoenix.


But the threat said no universal powers, which I assume Phoenix is.


Speed force dump should work on a Phoenix, since it was originally used by Jay Garrick to defeat Spectre munching King of Tears.

It says no multiversal power.

Originally posted by cdtm
Speed force dump should work on a Phoenix, since it was originally used by Jay Garrick to defeat Spectre munching King of Tears.
Maybe. I feel like that was a corner case though. Judging by what Mr. Terrific and Dr. Midnite said, King of Tears needs someone to guide it or it's basically a Portuguese Man O' War: deadly but aimless. Midnite killed Johnny Sorrow so it had no guide when Flash did that.

King of Tears ****ed Jay up earlier. King of Tears, Spectre, Phoenix, whoever....Maybe there are fringe matchups but I'm just not sold on Flash being able to take out characters on this level. /shrug

Or I'm totally wrong and some hardcore Flash fan is about to slap me with scans of him taking Kismet's lunch money and punching Dr. Manhattan unconscious.

Absolon Mercator can beat him.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Maybe. I feel like that was a corner case though. Judging by what Mr. Terrific and Dr. Midnite said, King of Tears needs someone to guide it or it's basically a Portuguese Man O' War: deadly but aimless. Midnite killed Johnny Sorrow so it had no guide when Flash did that.

King of Tears ****ed Jay up earlier. King of Tears, Spectre, Phoenix, whoever....Maybe there are fringe matchups but I'm just not sold on Flash being able to take out characters on this level. /shrug

Or I'm totally wrong and some hardcore Flash fan is about to slap me with scans of him taking Kismet's lunch money and punching Dr. Manhattan unconscious.

Consider the characters who could do this to him.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ec99c07ccd9c3fc8f388243a00b44795.webp

Maybe Manifold.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Consider the characters who could do this to him.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ec99c07ccd9c3fc8f388243a00b44795.webp

Maybe Manifold. I'm curious... Who would be able to do that to current Wally?

Because you know that's not him, right? Lol

I love how he brought up manifold

when showing a DCNU captain atom scan, that's like saying he thinks some random highschool wrestler can beat DC, just because Jon Jones did so.

DCNU Cap can roflstomp hickman's avengers in his sleep let alone manifold

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I'm curious... Who would be able to do that to current Wally?

Because you know that's not him, right? Lol

Originally posted by MrMind
I love how he brought up manifold

when showing a DCNU captain atom scan, that's like saying he thinks some random highschool wrestler can beat DC, just because Jon Jones did so.

DCNU Cap can roflstomp hickman's avengers in his sleep let alone manifold Yeah, all of that post was just so wrong lol.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I'm curious... Who would be able to do that to current Wally?

Because you know that's not him, right? Lol

Are they not interchangeable characters?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Are they not interchangeable characters? No, Wally is faster than Barry

I *suppose* you could use Barry's feats for Wally but not the other way around.

Problem is that isn't even current Barry , Hulkster buddy.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lmao what you mean "thats it"

Darwin, Colossus, Elixir,
Jean Grey, Magneto, Iceman etc

And I haven't read the past few pages but what does it matter if it's Wally or Barry or (is it Jay)? Both are so much faster than 95% of Marvel characters it wouldn't even matter?

If one of them runs a billion lighters a second and the other one runs 999 million that's still 998 million light years faster than a mutant. Maybe I missed something tho


How TF is Colossus gonna beat Flash?

Originally posted by MrMind
I love how he brought up manifold

when showing a DCNU captain atom scan, that's like saying he thinks some random highschool wrestler can beat DC, just because Jon Jones did so.

DCNU Cap can roflstomp hickman's avengers in his sleep let alone manifold

Captain Atom can beat cap universe and all of the Avengers?

If Nate can do what that scan says he can do, yeah. Of course.

New 52 Cap Atom was uber as shit.

Post death God Darwin could win.

No CIS. That means the Flash isn't hindered by in character shenanigans. He'd wipe his butt with all but the most powerful Mutants.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Post death God Darwin could win.

His powers still work at a certain speed

Where are you with Brainiac and Imperiex?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Consider the characters who could do this to him.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ec99c07ccd9c3fc8f388243a00b44795.webp

Maybe Manifold.
It's a good illustration of the concept I meant, yeah. I can't show every cosmic character doing feats like that, but I suspect most of them interact in unconventional ways with time/space. I just don't think speed/strength/durability/etc have the same meaning to them.

That said, definitely not Manifold. Lol

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
His powers still work at a certain speed

Where are you with Brainiac and Imperiex?

Where has this certain speed been shown?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Where has this certain speed been shown?

In that he has human level reaction speeds. Unless you can prove he has superspeed?

Also:

https://i.postimg.cc/G3QN9QB7/rfuFYKP.jpg

Speed + not knowing where something is exactly gives him issues.

But nice to ignore my question about Brainiac and Imperiex. Are you genuinely not going to ever address that question?

Edit: showing he is not instantaneous:
https://i.postimg.cc/ZRY8QrTn/RCO022-1466221754.jpg

That's not Darwin.

Oooh sorry, I was still talking about Manifold (although, maybe I was sneakily trying to see if you would reply, and to WHICH parts of the post you would reply to :evil

Guess you really are going to just ignore Brainiac and Imperiex?

But yes. Speed of Darwin.

https://i.postimg.cc/RC6GKxZD/RCO004-1469135796.jpg
...
https://i.postimg.cc/FzLZ4364/RCO011-1469135796.jpg
...
https://i.postimg.cc/50G3Tnng/RCO016-1469135796.jpg
....
https://i.postimg.cc/CM374rZL/RCO017-1469135796.jpg

In summary:
Even after Hela, he still can't develop powers at will. The powers themselves take time to manifest. And when dealing with speedsters, he can't do crap.

Anyway, more scans of Darwin, who is really quite overrated as far as I can see:

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvck4036/RCO007-1469349069.jpg
...
https://i.postimg.cc/wvNBhQ4Z/RCO008-1469349069.jpg

And again: this is AFTER he got Death God powers

Batman.

Refer to #2 please if you have questions.