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They fight in Snokes throne room.

Kylo might just win via force tbh.

IF he actually uses the Force.

Originally posted by Galan007
IF he actually uses the Force.


She can always dress up as a Knight of Ren. Thats automatic protection against him Force pushing her.

Originally posted by Galan007
IF he actually uses the Force.
Maybe a dozen knights of ren are more powerful collectively than one ahsoka?

Didn't ren have some scaling to ROTJ Vader(a version who'd be more powerful than the one ahsoka faced)

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Didn't ren have some scaling to ROTJ Vader(a version who'd be more powerful than the one ahsoka faced) Which line are you referring to?

Originally posted by Galan007
Which line are you referring to?
Not sure what it's based on, but i recall you being involved in a discussion regarding something snoke said about ren.

Kylo would win in a tough fight

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Not sure what it's based on, but i recall you being involved in a discussion regarding something snoke said about ren. Hm. Don't remember off hand.

If Vader can't defeat Ahsoka through the force then Kylo can't either. Ahsoka gave Rebels Vader a tough fight.

Ahsoka wins.

Originally posted by Scizard
If Vader can't defeat Ahsoka through the force then Kylo can't either. Ahsoka gave Rebels Vader a tough fight.

Ahsoka wins.


Vader did win Round 1 against her with a force push.

Originally posted by Scizard
If Vader can't defeat Ahsoka through the force then Kylo can't either. Ahsoka gave Rebels Vader a tough fight.

Ahsoka wins.
Rebels vader can't. Later versions of vader are another story.



Via BFR, which was dependent on them being near the edge of a cliff :/

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Via BFR, which was dependent on them being near the edge of a cliff :/


If only he drove her backwards towards the edge then maybe he could take more credit for that... oh wait...

In any case she was flung into the air against her will. If there was a wall behind her it likely also would have KOd her. So wasnt really dependant on there being an edge.

Definitely Ahsoka.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If only he drove her backwards towards the edge then maybe he could take more credit for that... oh wait...

In any case she was flung into the air against her will. If there was a wall behind her it likely also would have KOd her. So wasnt really dependant on there being an edge.

Still don't see Kylo > Rebels Vader, and Kylo has no feats putting him at Ahsoka level so... Ahsoka definitely takes it I would say.

Really depends which Ahsoka this is, imo.

I might put Kylo above S07 Ahsoka, but Rebels Ahsoka is a different story.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If only he drove her backwards towards the edge then maybe he could take more credit for that... oh wait...

Credit for what?

It didn't kill or incapacitate her. :/

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Credit for what?

It didn't kill or incapacitate her. :/


She was clearly KOd for a short time.

What are you on?

I assumed this was prime Ahsoka that we know of since nothing was specified

Originally posted by Scizard
If Vader can't defeat Ahsoka through the force then Kylo can't either. Ahsoka gave Rebels Vader a tough fight.

Ahsoka wins.
TBF, that's probably a vastly pre-prime vader. And frankly, Kylo's padawan feats stack up to any of vader's. Even when we scale vader off of anakin, kylo's padawan showings put him miles above anyone vader scales over.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
TBF, that's probably a vastly pre-prime vader. And frankly, Kylo's padawan feats stack up to any of vader's. Even when we scale vader off of anakin, kylo's padawan showings put him miles above anyone vader scales over.

Which feats of padawan Kylo are you referring to? I can think only of his feat of colapsing the statues and that wouldn't put him miles above anyone Vader scales over.

Originally posted by Darthadi
Which feats of padawan Kylo are you referring to? I can think only of his feat of colapsing the statues and that wouldn't put him miles above anyone Vader scales over.
Kylo being a padawan when he does it puts him miles above.

Kylo has some really impressive Force feats to be sure. The problem is that he pretty much never uses his overwhelming Force power in battles... Even when he should.

Look at his fights with the PG and KoR, for example. They damn near killed him, yet he barely even used the Force for whatever reason...

He was using to force against the KoR. Just not well...

Dude is a worse jobber than Maul.

Yeah, he did use TK against the KoR twice(once to knock one of them down, and later to push another one off the cliff), but he was still pretty much helpless against them without a saber, and was getting beaten to a pulp... Despite having more than enough power to own them all with the Force.

His fight with the PG was even worse. He was literally getting strangled to death, and never once attempted to use the Force offensively against them.

Originally posted by Galan007
Kylo has some really impressive Force feats to be sure. The problem is that he pretty much never uses his overwhelming Force power in battles... Even when he should.

Look at his fights with the PG and KoR, for example. They damn near killed him, yet he didn't even attempt to use the Force for whatever reason...
I mean do we have some sort of gauge for how powerful they are? It's possible collectively they're just too powerful for that.


I mean, he wins a 6 v 1 while jobbing. You can do worse.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I mean do we have some sort of gauge for how powerful they are? It's possible collectively they're just too powerful for that.

The KoR aren't that powerful with the force. They are described as untrained and that they would have made decent inquisitor stock (aka they would be Inquisitor level if trained).

The PG aren't force sensitive.

The KoR have implied Inquisitor-level potential, but no training in the Force. So from that perspective, they would be considerably below the level of Inquisitors.

And the PG aren't even Force-sensitive... Or at least, they were never stated/implied to be. Force-raping them shouldn't have been an issue by any stretch.


{edit}
ares ninja'd me. sly

And plus they dont even have Sabers. Like wth?! They are basically fodder to a proper Jedi/Sith.

Tbf, their weaponry in RoS did seem to be holding up pretty well against Kylo's saber... But he still owned the lot of them easily(after Rey passed the saber to him, obv.)

Before that, they were beating the shit out of him.

The KOR were still force sensitive, so I guess I can see why Kylo couldn't just own them with the Force. But if he's getting scaled up to Vaders level he should have still been able to IMO.

His fight with the Guards is just bad though. No excuses for that one.

Hows he scaled up to Vaders level?

That's what xPrime was saying above.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
The KOR were still force sensitive, so I guess I can see why Kylo couldn't just own them with the Force. But if he's getting scaled up to Vaders level he should have still been able to IMO.

His fight with the Guards is just bad though. No excuses for that one. Even a pre-prime Vader was capable of raping multiple Inquisitors with the Force:
https://i.ibb.co/mR3mVfb/force52.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/YkGj1P4/force53.jpg

And I'd put those two no-name Inquisitors above any two members of the KoR, given that they were all former Jedi, AND had undergone training from Vader himself. So if Kylo's power scales anywhere near Vader's, he should have still been able to ragdoll at least a few of the KoR without an issue. But again, he rarely uses the Force in battle... Even when he should.

Yeah not much evidence of that.

Originally posted by ares834
The KoR aren't that powerful with the force. They are described as untrained and that they would have made decent inquisitor stock (aka they would be Inquisitor level if trained).

The PG aren't force sensitive.
1. Well, two inquisitors were able to lift a jedi temple in sw rebels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT_eLtODF5A&feature=emb_title

2. If the PG's aren't force sensitive....
Well I can't really defend that, lmao.


Wasn't that just at the infancy of the inquistor program though?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Well, two inquisitors were able to lift a jedi temple in sw rebels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT_eLtODF5A&feature=emb_title The KoR =/= proper Inquisitors.

As mentioned, the implication was just that the KoR's raw potential was Inquisitor-level. However, they were untrained, and as such their abilities were undeveloped. IOW, they never realized their potential.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Wasn't that just at the infancy of the inquistor program though? Yes, but all of the Inquisitors were still former Jedi, and had been further trained by Vader.

That alone should put their abilities well beyond those of the KoR.

2 Inquisitors also grabbed the Phantom with its engines pulling in the other direction. And the best one (presumably GI) is just a little beneath Ventress.

So yeah they are pretty powerful.

Originally posted by Galan007
The KoR =/= proper Inquisitors.

As mentioned, the implication was just that the KoR's raw potential was Inquisitor-level. However, they were untrained, and as such their abilities were undeveloped. IOW, they never realized their potential.

Yep. Their force powers are described as "stunted" and "muted" in the visual guide.

And the RoS Galaxy Guide follows that up by stating that they have "limited, untrained Force powers." Pretty sure Luke also said something similar in The Rise of Kylo Ren.

Originally posted by Galan007


And the RoS Galaxy Guide follows that up by stating that they have "limited, untrained Force powers." Pretty sure Luke also said something similar in The Rise of Kylo Ren.
Welp, Ren's a jobber I guess.

Originally posted by Galan007
Even a pre-prime Vader was capable of raping multiple Inquisitors with the Force:
https://i.ibb.co/mR3mVfb/force52.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/YkGj1P4/force53.jpg

And I'd put those two no-name Inquisitors above any two members of the KoR, given that they were all former Jedi, AND had undergone training from Vader himself. So if Kylo's power scales anywhere near Vader's, he should have still been able to ragdoll at least a few of the KoR without an issue. But again, he rarely uses the Force in battle... Even when he should.
The novelization states that Kylo could take out a few without a saber, but not all of them.

^^also in those panels you could see how those no-name inquisitors had at least been able to corner Vader and causing him some trouble

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
The novelization states that Kylo could take out a few without a saber, but not all of them. Right, but the point is: he didn't.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
^^also in those panels you could see how those no-name inquisitors had at least been able to corner Vader and causing him some trouble Nah, they spent the entire issue running from Vader. When he finally got to them at the end, he raped both of them with the Force.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Well, two inquisitors were able to lift a jedi temple in sw rebels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT_eLtODF5A&feature=emb_title

2. If the PG's aren't force sensitive....
Well I can't really defend that, lmao.


Wasn't that just at the infancy of the inquistor program though? That's pretty good. I saw a scene with these two holding back a ship running it's engines as well.

Originally posted by ares834
The PG aren't force sensitive.
Neither were these guards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8f3-QPBxUA

^ Took 6 of those guys to restrain Anakin. And by keeping a good distance as well.

But I see your point, in that we can easily find examples from TCW to lowball Anakin. Although its probably mostly down to Jedi restraint.

Also I dont think stuff like that happened to him close to ROTS. Towards the latter seasons of TCW Anakin is portrayed as pretty invincible methinks.

Glad you get my point. I was also going to bring up his fight against Hondo Ohnaka lol

@Prime, that quote me thinks is rather useless to bring up cause all we see the RG do in RoS is...die. If they were really more formidable than the Preatorian, than they should have been able to do more. Unless we get more on them, that could very well just be Rey's opinion.

By feats, the Preatorian Guard are better and they also have hype going for them too, so that's moreso putting them above.

There's something in the novel that she thought they were better than the PG right? Although does she ever confirm it afterwards?

She had a feeling these guards would prove more formidable. But Zens point is they didnt prove more formidable. At least not to her.

In any case, I believe the main issue with the PGs is that if Kylo is supposed to be some Force beast, then why doesnt he just own the PGs with the Force? Or the untrained KOR for that matter...

^ Thats still ridiculously powerful. So Youll have to justify any low showings.

^is that actually stated anywhere?

That's what the databank implies, imo:

"Maul challenged Vizsla to a duel -- Maul using his lightsaber, Vizsla wielding the ancient darksaber and his Mandalorian weapons. It was an intense battle, but ultimately, the Sith was too powerful. At the fight's finish, Maul beheaded Vizsla with one swift, merciless stroke."

It was always an assumption, but kinda confirmed after seeing what he did to Bo-Katan.

Edit- Unless he grew in power since then, which is certainly possible. But he just handled her so ridiculously casually, theres no reason to assume he couldnt have force owned Vizsla. But the point was to win over Death Watch.

But there is a probable explanation for Maul not using the Force against Vizsla.

There is absolutely no logical reason why Kylo didn't even attempt to use the Force against the PGs.

I guess you can say it was PIS.

Originally posted by Darthadi
I guess you can say it was PIS.
Pretty much

Being fair, TCW seemed more about storytelling than making Force Users really powerful. I mean apart from some very select scenes, I never got the impression that the Force Users were that far above Non-Force Users. So I don't think they are really bad showings.

Oh it is definitely PIS. The PGs aren't even Force-sensitive... Kylo should have been able to snap all of their necks with a casual gesture.

I haven't said anything about Kylo.

Ok my bad I misread

Kylo is definitely underrated because of that fight with the Praetorian's unfortunately. Could he beat Ahsoka? I don't know, it's difficult to gauge his exact power level but he's probably around that level.

^ FYI Mauls hardly perfect. We all know he can lose to padawans lol

Where would you rank ROS Kylo as an overall combatant?

^ Well im not sure ive seen much difference between TFA, TLJ and ROS Maul.

But I would guess overall around Maul/Ahsoka level. However he likely has more raw power at his disposal than either of those 2, but doubt that would give him the win.

Yeah typo.

Just saying I didnt SEE much difference. And its not like years passed between each film.

The thing with Kylo is that he has so few showings that all of them(even the ones people might think of as PIS) really need to be considered in order to determine how he typically fights.

He's not Vader, who has dozens of canon appearances that can be used to help gauge him.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah typo.

Just saying I didnt SEE much difference. And its not like years passed between each film. Yeah.

TFA, TLJ, and RoS all took place in the span of about 1 year. RoS Kylo was likely > TFA Kylo, but I don't see the difference between them as vast by any stretch.

Sure, but we don't know how the PGs compare to the KoR as combatants.

There's also the fact that he was fighting the PGs as Kylo, and the KoR as Ben. The change in mindset could have made a difference as well.

Not sure how Rey would have any clue how skilled the Royal Guards were, just by seeing them surround her... But that's neither here nor there.

The KoR were unfortunately not scaled in such a way. We still don't know how they'd compare to the PGs or the RGs.

I agree that they should be a super-elite team, but again, there's just no way to accurately scale them.

The PGs also seemed to have superior weapons to the KOR.

The Royal Guards were firing at Rey and she just redirected their fire back at them. And added the odd force attack on top. Kylo even took one out for her.

So we cant determine anything from that tbh.

The biggest indicator of a power boost was the shuttle grab Imo. But we have no clue how much their Dyad played into that.

The dyad only enhanced their powers when they worked together

I think Kylo was always conflicted, tbh.

In The Rise of Kylo Ren, he didn't even want to kill the 3 Jedi students -- they essentially forced his hand by bringing the fight to him multiple times. In TFA, the act of killing Han "split his spirit to the bone" and left him completely unbalanced. And in TLJ, Kylo still couldn't bring himself to kill his mother.

By RoS, he was definitely the least conflicted that we had seen him in any of the other films, which is why I think he was the most powerful version of Kylo... But he still had a soft spot for Leia, given that her final message/sacrifice(along with the random convo he had with Han) was enough to bring him back to the light.

But when he renounced the dark side and became "Ben Solo" again, he had no inner conflict or emotional turmoil weighing him down -- he was fully balanced. That's why I think end-of-film Ben was at his most powerful.

I agree

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
The dyad only enhanced their powers when they worked together


Well thats definitely not true, because the Dyad is the whole explanation for how Rey can do Force stuff in TFA.

How did she know how to do the Jedi mind trick, or use TK?

She had no training. The Dyad is the only explanation they ever gave for that.

Skywalker blood is still >> Palpatine blood. So the Dyad is the only possible way she could have been competing for the first two films.

Yeah, that happened when their minds first linked in TFA. His training became hers.

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Yeah, that happened when their minds first linked in TFA. His training became hers. Has that been made official somewhere?

Makes sense I guess.