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Fight takes place on Mortis.

How goes it?

The Son stomps

Depends if Rey was capable of tapping into Anakin's power/potential.

I don't think Rey's amp was literrally the power of all the jedi.
The ones could tear apart the very fabric of the universe acording to the Father. Rey and Palpatine were not even close to that, even with all the jedi/sith amps.

Originally posted by Darthadi
I don't think Rey's amp was literrally the power of all the jedi. It was certainly implied to have been:

https://i.imgur.com/dp1TOO6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wfJKtqB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ShtPbB6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bAkwsEL.jpg



And given that Palpatine was channeling the power of all the Sith:

https://i.imgur.com/VW3qG2K.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NPG3CTN.jpg


...It makes sense that it would require the power of all the Jedi to negate the power of all the Sith.

Originally posted by Darthadi
The ones could tear apart the very fabric of the universe acording to the Father. Rey and Palpatine were not even close to that, even with all the jedi/sith amps. Not disagreeing.

Just saying that the only chance they'd have against The Son would be if Rey was capable of tapping into Anakin's power/potential(as that was sufficient to own the Daughter and Son simultaneously while on Mortis)... But that's a big "IF".

^ Does it make sense though? Given the Jedi must massively outnumber the Sith given how long the RO2 was in place, plus the Jedi have like 3 Skywalkers on side.

The RoT was established by Bane ~1,000 years before the PT. We don't really know what the Sith numbers were prior to that in canon. However, the RoS junior novel does imply that their numbers were just as great as the Jedi's in the thousands of years prior to the RoT being created.

It's also possible that the Sith were simply a good deal more powerful than the Jedi in general, which could balance the scales if they had fewer numbers overall.

Either way, the clear intent is that Palpatine was controlling the power of all the Sith before him, thus Rey had to harness the power of all the Jedi before her to counter him.

Yeah I mean there were 10,000 Jedi just at the time of the ROTS. Honestly I just dont think Abrams thought about it much. Harnessing the entire dark side of the Force vs the entire Light side would make much more sense in terms of them being equally matched. Like the Daughter vs Brother sort of thing.

I really never thought about Rey having the combined power of Luke and Anakin. That by itself would have made her unbelievably powerful. Never mind the added power of 1000 generations of Jedi. JFC.

And to think it took all that just to match Sidious.

Sid also had all the Sith Eli

Bump.

Don't see why the embodiment of the Dark Side doesn't squash these two. Despite the supposed amps, all we saw from anything of that was Sidious and that was just one showing of what was basically an EMP attack.

Feats > Implications of amps.

Yeah, supposed power that threatens to destroy the universe and...all that comes of it is some Lighting struggle. Sure...ok...sounds to me like whatever outside sources, doesn't apply to the movies because none of that makes any sense. I bet Abrams didn't even really put much thought into it.

Originally posted by Zenwolf


Feats > Implications of amps.




That would apply to The Son as well in that case.

Son gets anally raped.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That would apply to The Son as well in that case.

Not really he has better feats, fighting with the embodiment of the Light is the highest one he has which would put him over the other 2.

Think it just depends how you think post-dyad Palpatine, acting as a vessel for all the Sith, compares to the Son.

When Rey crossed her sabers, it created an "impenetrable shield" that cast Palpatine's lightning back onto him, destroying him "body and soul." So *maybe* the same kind of thing might work against the Son's lighting(assuming he didn't just...you know... stop generating the lightning when it began feeding back)? Dunno.

That said, I'm also not sure why the Son couldn't just shut off Rey's sabers(like he did to Kenobi and Ahsoka), and proceed to brutalize her in other ways..? /shrug

Sith Allfather>Son>Valkorion>RoS Sidious/DE Sidious

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not really he has better feats, fighting with the embodiment of the Light is the highest one he has which would put him over the other 2.


Lol but embodiment of Light is also not a feat.

Palpatine has also been described as the embodiment of the dark side. I think the lightning feat is described as Palpatine's 'full power' although TPM Maul is also described as the full power of the dark side so... all these statements are kinda iffy.

The Son could be overpowered by a being with Anakin's potential.

I'd say Rey and Sidious were certainly in control of power that far surpassed Anakin's potential.

Still The Son

Why?

Legit question.

Because he is an universal threat. I slso think that full potential Anakin is more powerful than all Jedi Rey.

The Son is only a universal threat if he fights the Daughter in the mortal realm. A conflict between them is what had the potential to tear the fabric of the universe.

Personally I don't think Anakin's full potential is superior to an unprecedented force prodigy who was channeling the power of all the Jedi. Nor superior to a guy who was channeling the power of all the Sith.

Originally posted by Sheev
The Son is only a universal threat if he fights the Daughter in the mortal realm. A conflict between them is what had the potential to tear the fabric of the universe.

Personally I don't think Anakin's full potential is superior to an unprecedented force prodigy who was channeling the power of all the Jedi. Nor superior to a guy who was channeling the power of all the Sith.

If the Son and Daughter fighting would destroy the universe as a side effect he is universal. The Father also just says that his children can tear the fabric of the universe. Nothing about that being necessarly only a byproduct of their fight.
Even after the Daughter died The Father was still worried that the Son escaping will ruin the universe.

If you refer to Rey's quote from the insider, that is very likely not canon. Martin (and yes, he should be reliable for "it is canon?" type of question) said that the indider is like the blog section of starwars.com, so not canon. So, no, she is not an unprecedented prodigy. It wouldn't even make sense for a Palpatine to have more potential than the Chosen One.
ROS Sidious is clearly the most powerful non enthity in canon, but against an universal threat he dies.

Originally posted by Sheev
The Son could be overpowered by a being with Anakin's potential.

I'd say Rey and Sidious were certainly in control of power that far surpassed Anakin's potential.

Not even close. Anakin is literally a deity... his consciousness, power level is a deity level, actually even above The Son. He doesn't need to evolve, he is already there, that level... it's just that he didn't succeed in bringing that power on the surface...which would be pointless right, because no one would stand a chance... Anakin did his job, full power or not.

Sidious is just a powerful force user, a Sith, even with combined power of Siths, they are just mortals, nothing else, nothing compared to the real deity. Anakin is a higher level being, his consciousness, vibration is a deity level, actually the highest in SW universe. All Jedi Rey and all Sith Palpatine combined don't stand a chance against FP Anakin.

Son wins. ONly mortal who could beat him is anakin with his full potential unlocked

Originally posted by Total Warrior
Son wins. ONly mortal who could beat him is anakin with his full potential unlocked


But wasnt Anakin also lending his power to Rey ?

Uh... Sidious and Rey in a Godstomp.

This is ridiculous, the most powerful force users ever aren't > Every mortal force user ever combined, not even close to being close.

Rey has all of the old Legends Jedi in her and creates a wall of light around Sids and co. GG.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Rey has all of the old Legends Jedi in her and creates a wall of light around Sids and co. GG. They made a new SW Versus forum if you wanna join:
https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/

I don't go there much because much the SW versus people are literally certifiably insane and toxic these days.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I don't go there much because much the SW versus people are literally certifiably insane and toxic these days.


Nothing new then.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Uh... Sidious and Rey in a Godstomp.

This is ridiculous, the most powerful force users ever aren't > Every mortal force user ever combined, not even close to being close.

Be serious. Paplatine at the end of RoS would stand a chance against The Son? The Son stomps them both. He is the dark side incarnate, avatar of the dark side, they are just mortals who went to the dark side and jedi who are just powerful force users (nothing compared to The Son). What can insects do to him.

It's not even close.

Only if Rey can tap to the full power of Anakin can defeat The Son, but then Palpatine and others aren't even needed, without Anakin they are useless anyway.

And she can't tap into Anakin potential. It's upon Anakin how much he would want to empower her in certain monents, it completely depends on him. Like in RoS, she didn't tap into anything, she was empowered by Jedis enough to take Sheev down.

Originally posted by Inedian
Be serious. Paplatine at the end of RoS would stand a chance against The Son? The Son stomps them both. He is the dark side incarnate, avatar of the dark side, they are just mortals who went to the dark side and jedi who are just powerful force users (nothing compared to The Son). What can insects do to him.

It's not even close.

Only if Rey can tap to the full power of Anakin can defeat The Son, but then Palpatine and others aren't even needed, without Anakin they are useless anyway. Anakin was only stated to be 200% of Palpatine's power at full potential.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Anakin was only stated to be 200% of Palpatine's power at full potential. Wasnt that quote legends?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Wasnt that quote legends? Oh shit, you right.

I think it was a Lucas quote.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I think it was a Lucas quote. Yes, It was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGeZ6rrjLAw

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Oh shit, you right.

So then it goes to 'Unverifiably high' instead of 200%.

Anakin's never been an epic level/cosmic Force user on average, so tapping his potential has always been a slippery slope argument. This is a guy who at his maddest couldn't out-TK Obi-Wan, the same Obi-Wan that Dooku ragdolled without a second thought, but in Insert X he can fight avatars of the Force itself.

GL was dumb to make Anakin the Chosen One. It provided a lot of fandumb and didn't enhance the storytelling. He should have focused on other issues, like the rampant child murder that retroactively makes his redemption in ROTJ seem hollow.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
They made a new SW Versus forum if you wanna join:
https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/

I don't go there much because much the SW versus people are literally certifiably insane and toxic these days.

I just checked the top four threads in that place and it's basically "VADER SOLOS" or "KI ADI MUNDI ONE SHOTS".

That's KMC 2005 era.

Originally posted by Inedian
And she can't tap into Anakin potential. It's upon Anakin how much he would want to empower her in certain monents, it completely depends on him. Like in RoS, she didn't tap into anything, she was empowered by Jedis enough to take Sheev down. Given the stakes, would it have made sense for Anakin to have lent Rey anything less than his full power?

It's not like Rey received the power of alive full potential Anakin. She received power from force ghost Anakin who we have no ideea how powerful is.

Besides that, we don't even know how all the jedi stuff works.
We know she was empowered by the jedi of the past, but we don't know what that means exactly and how much of their power she got.

TROS was such a mess.

Yoda was casually summoning lightning as a force ghost and Luke TK'd an x-wing.

I don't think their power as a ghost diminishes. I'd think the opposite actually.

Neither of these feats tell us anything about their power compared compared to how power hey were alive.

Yoda never summoned lighting with a finger flick while he was alive.

That's a Bendu level ft.

It's a cool feat but not Bendu level. It's also unquantifiable

From what I can remember.There is no evidence force ghosts are less powerful than when they were living
And the movies seem suggesting/implying theyre still as powerful as before imo

We have seen natural lightning summoned 3 times in canon.

-By Bendu
-By Yoda
-By someone in the Rise of Kylo Ren (maybe Snoke, maybe Sidious, maybe Kylo himself).

It's a huge feat. Something that Yoda never did anything comparable to while he was alive.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
From what I can remember.There is no evidence force ghosts are less powerful than when they were living
And the movies seem suggesting/implying theyre still as powerful as before imo They are part of the cosmic force itself as ghosts.

If anything it would make more sense for them to be MORE powerful then they were while alive.

But that is just speculation. We have no ideea about how powerful they are.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
We have seen natural lightning summoned 3 times in canon.

-By Bendu
-By Yoda
-By someone in the Rise of Kylo Ren (maybe Snoke, maybe Sidious, maybe Kylo himself).

It's a huge feat. Something that Yoda never did anything comparable to while he was alive.

Yoda burned a tree. Not comparable with the other 2 or even super impressive at all. Lifting a mountain in the comics or matching ROTS Sidious are much better feats.

Originally posted by Darthadi
But that is just speculation. We have no ideea about how powerful they are.



Yes we do. Qui-Gon had Yoda completely paralysed when he first communes with him.

Ergo Qui-Gons force ghost is more powerful than a living Yoda.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes we do. Qui-Gon had Yoda completely paralysed when he first communes with him.

Ergo Qui-Gons force ghost is more powerful than a living Yoda.

When was that? I don't remember anything like that.
If you refer to the moment when Jinn lifted Yoda in the meditation room that doesn't prove anything. Yoda was not trying to opose him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Given the stakes, would it have made sense for Anakin to have lent Rey anything less than his full power?

It wouldn't make sense. Anakin never reached his real power, but did his job... Rey received enough power to do her job. If The Son would need to be taken down then The Son would go down. It's just others aren't even needed then and The Son looses and it would be Anakin Rey vs The Son.

When i was watching RoS in cinema, i wished Anakin to come and take Sheev down once and for all and to finally show Anakin in his glory. I also read that Abrams initially wanted to make The Son the main antagonist in new Star Wars but then changed to Sheev.

And it was such a mess anyway, but seeing such pathetic power level in RoS compared to the Ones, i don't think it has anything to do with full power Anakin or a level close to the Ones.

About force ghost... it doesn't diminish anything... it's just that they live in subtle body, but it's still them with their power. Maybe someone like Anakin or any force user could bring his all power in his subtle body, since they wouldn't be limited to material body and could release all their inner power. I would think being a force ghost would make you more free.

You can call The Ones "entities" all you want, but they were ultimately just very powerful Force users.

The Father = peak Anakin, and the Son and Daughter were somewhere lower down the totem pole.

I don't really see how Sidious with the power of all Sith, and Rey with the power of all Jedi wouldn't be beyond the Son.

Very powerful force users who can tear the very fabric of the universe*.

You could argue that Sidious was tearing the fabric of the universe when he was forcing his way into TWBW without a gateway.

Originally posted by Sheev
You could argue that Sidious was tearing the fabric of the universe when he was forcing his way into TWBW without a gateway.

I don't know what else you'd call it?

So given the recent implications that the Palpatine bloodline is on par with the Skywalker bloodline, have any opinions changed here?