Tier of the most powerful people in Canon (see details)

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



ozz81
Besides the Mortiff family who are the most powerful beings ranked (ie top 10 etc ?

I get confused was it Sidious then Rey , Kylo Ren, then snoke etc ?

Was Sidious and amped Rey( with all the jedi etc) equal ( because they seemed even as they both died at the same time then Rey revived by Kylo etc?

Scizard
There are multiple threads like this check some of them out, I'm sure most peoples opinions won't have changed yet.

Galan007
Yeah, there are quite a few threads like this.

But excluding the Mortis Gods, and characters with one-off/"moment of need" amps(like 'omni-Jedi' Rey), I think a current list would look something like this:

1.) RoS Palpatine: Kylo stated that he was more powerful than anyone he had ever encountered(which automatically scales him above Luke/Snoke)... And that was when Palpatine was still in his rotting clone body. Yes, Palpatine was amped with the the power of all the Sith, but unlike Rey's amp, Palpatine's didn't seem to be temporary -- he had evidentially been in possession of that power for some time, and had made it his own.

2.) Post-RotJ/ST-era Luke: Was already Vader's equal in RotJ. He then spent yearS scouring the galaxy for any Jedi-related material he could get his hands on -- including Jocasta Nu's cache, as well as the High Republic vault. He also studied the ancient texts, and communed with the spirits of Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin. Moreover, he was implied to be > Snoke.

3.) Snoke: Luke implied that his "dark side mastery" was equal to Palpatine's. But his placement on the list could vary, depending on how you think that would translate to a battle scenario.

4.) Peak Vader: Nothing in canon suggests that his power did anything but increase in the years following RotS.

5.) Yoda: Nearly equal to RotS Palpatine, and generally regarded as the most powerful Jedi in history up to that point.

6.) Mace: Dubious as it may be, his saber battle with Palpatine still warrants him being on the list.

7.) Rebels Ahsoka: she was already in Maul's tier when she was 17 years old. She then spent the next 15 years furthering her power/skill, and was able to preform well against Vader(who is "light years" above the likes of Dooku and Maul.)

8.) DD Vos: He was ~/> Dooku.

9.) Dooku: Obvious reasons.

10.) Kenobi: Obvious reasons.


If we were to rank Kylo and Rey based on some of their feats and implied power, then they'd probably be around Vader-level, give or take.

You could also throw Bendu on the list, but his placement would depend how literally you take Vader's statement that Palpatine was still far more powerful.

Darthadi
Excluding entities and temporary amps:

1. ROS Sidious: by far the best feats in canon. Kylo thinks Sidious>Luke
2. Prime Luke: scaling from Vader, implied superiority over Snoke
3. Vader: some of the best TK feats in canon, strong evidence that he increased in power after ROTS and surpassed Anakin. Also, more powerfull than Dooku and Maul by "light years".
4. Yoda: In the same tier as ROTS Sidious. The most powerful jedi who ever lived up until his time acording to "Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi - The Power of the Force"
5. Snoke: Implied to have ROTJ Palpatine level mastery over the dark side. He could be 3rd if not for the fact is is a cripple
6. Windu: Mostly because of his fight with Sidious and holistic portayal.
7/8/9. Dooku: He gave Yoda a decent fight. Impressive performance against TCW Anakin and Kenobi on Oba Diah.
7/8/9. Rebels Ahsoka: She gave a decent fight to Vader. Even factoring "Filoni force" this is still impressive. Also can compete with TCW Maul before growing vastly in skill.
7/8/9. Kenobi: His performance against Mustafar Anakin was very impressive, even if he had some circumstances.
10. Kylo: He is clearly meant to be powerful. Also nice tk feats. In his case there is a lot of eyeballing involved as he has no direct link with characters from other eras aside of stomping the KOR who are vaguely comparable with the inquisitors.
11. Vos: Defeated Dooku but he had a style advantage iirc. Also, superiority over Ventress.
12. TCW Maul: Good TK feats, parity with late TCW Kenobi. Not sure where i rank Rebels Maul
13. Rey: Can compete with Kylo. Huge raw power.

Honorable mentions: Ventress, Grievous, Karbin, Savage, Koth, Momin
Characters like Plagueis, Bane or Revan are probably very powerfull but we don't know anything about them in canon.
Talzin (when not on Dathomir) and Bendu are too hard to rank.
Pre suit Vader/Anakin would be around Windu's level.

Scizard
I'm actually curious to where we are placing Vos compared to Dooku, I forget all the circumstances of their duels.

Darth Thor
I think yall placing Ahsoka way too high. Theres no reason to place her above Maul. And the official site still indicates he was stronger than her as of Rebels, hence him being the logical to partner with Ezra.

Also wheres this quote from about her having Vastly improved since S7?

In any case placing her above both Peak Vos and Peak Kenobi is completely unearned IMO.

Total Warrior
^^agreed. Aniway:

1)RoS Rey (she has the power of ALL Jedi)
2)RoS Palpatine (same as above but replace Jedi with Sith)
3)Luke Skywalker (Stronger than Snoke, who should be ~RotJ Sid)
4)Snoke (stated to be ~RotJ Sid by Luke)
5)Yodel (slightly weaker than RoTS Sid, had more midichlorians than any Jedi except Anakin)
6)Darth Vader (hype has him pretty high)
7)Windu (held his own against Sid)
8)Vos (defeated Dooku, stated to be stronger than Ventress by dooku, states to be stronger than Krell by Windu etc)
9)Dooku (held his own against AoTC dooku, stalemated DD Anakin, a few months before Rots)
10)Kenobi (defeated Maul and Anakin)
11)Maul (killed Qui Gon, occasionally bested TCW Obi Wan)
12)Ahhhsoka (outsmarted Maul, but Filoni stated she is weaker than him)
13)Kylo Ren (pretty strong, but he only ever fought Rey and weak ass clowns of Ren)
14)Assajj Ventress (defeated Grevious, fought equally against several powerful Jedi like Anakin or Obi wan)
15)Savage Oppress (Killed Adi Gallia after a short fight, Gallia held her own against Grevious)
16)General Grevious (killed hundreds of Jedi)
17)Lord Momin (defeated a weakened Vader)
18) Kit Fisto (defeated a pre-prime Grevious)
19) Bong Krell (mauled several clones)
20) Depa Bilabba(held her own against 19 BBY Grevious)

Not sure where to place off-Dathomir Talzin

ozz81
Originally posted by Total Warrior
^^agreed. Aniway:

1)RoS Rey (she has the power of ALL Jedi)
2)RoS Palpatine (same as above but replace Jedi with Sith)
3)Luke Skywalker (Stronger than Snoke, who should be ~RotJ Sid)
4)Snoke (stated to be ~RotJ Sid by Luke)
5)Yodel (slightly weaker than RoTS Sid, had more midichlorians than any Jedi except Anakin)
6)Darth Vader (hype has him pretty high)
7)Windu (held his own against Sid)
8)Vos (defeated Dooku, stated to be stronger than Ventress by dooku, states to be stronger than Krell by Windu etc)
9)Dooku (held his own against AoTC dooku, stalemated DD Anakin, a few months before Rots)
10)Kenobi (defeated Maul and Anakin)
11)Maul (killed Qui Gon, occasionally bested TCW Obi Wan)
12)Ahhhsoka (outsmarted Maul, but Filoni stated she is weaker than him)
13)Kylo Ren (pretty strong, but he only ever fought Rey and weak ass clowns of Ren)
14)Assajj Ventress (defeated Grevious, fought equally against several powerful Jedi like Anakin or Obi wan)
15)Savage Oppress (Killed Adi Gallia after a short fight, Gallia held her own against Grevious)
16)General Grevious (killed hundreds of Jedi)
17)Lord Momin (defeated a weakened Vader)
18) Kit Fisto (defeated a pre-prime Grevious)
19) Bong Krell (mauled several clones)
20) Depa Bilabba(held her own against 19 BBY Grevious)

Not sure where to place off-Dathomir Talzin

Cool how did Vos defeat dooku in canon exactly ?

xPRIMEx
In terms of force power:

1. Sidious
2. Luke
3. Snoke
4. Vader
5. Yoda
6. Kylo
7. Anakin
8. Dooku
9. Windu
10. Maul
11. Rey
12. Obi Wan
13. Ahsoka

I may have forgotten some.

xPRIMEx

xPRIMEx
Oh yeah I guess 14 and 15 would be Ventress and Savage, not sure what order

Total Warrior
Originally posted by ozz81
Cool how did Vos defeat dooku in canon exactly ?

Unbowed
Where was Luke's superiority over Snoke "implied"?

Total Warrior
Originally posted by Unbowed
Where was Luke's superiority over Snoke "implied"? You need to ask Galan about that. But i think it's implied Luke defeated Snoke at some point in time

Scizard
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I think yall placing Ahsoka way too high. Theres no reason to place her above Maul. And the official site still indicates he was stronger than her as of Rebels, hence him being the logical to partner with Ezra.

Also wheres this quote from about her having Vastly improved since S7?

In any case placing her above both Peak Vos and Peak Kenobi is completely unearned IMO.

https://prnt.sc/sl0qxh

Ahsoka's lightsaber skills. Also where does the official site say he was stronger. I feel like it's a bit weird for Maul's saber skills to have significantly improved, however force growth sounds quite reasonable to me.

Scizard
Also did not mean to attach that Vader image. erm

Galan007
Originally posted by Unbowed
Where was Luke's superiority over Snoke "implied"? Seemed to be the indication here, imo:
https://i.imgur.com/XLc1rFp.jpg
Kylo implies that Luke and Snoke had encountered one another at some point(years prior to TFA), and Luke was responsible for giving him those injuries. Yes, I know a vat of 'injured' Snoke clones were shown in RoS, but perhaps Palpatine created those after the fact in order to match Snoke's look at the time..?

Snoke also stated that he both respects and fears Luke:
https://i.imgur.com/4W8CuKQ.jpg
And you could argue that if Snoke were more powerful than Luke, he'd have nothing to fear from him.

Just my two cents. /shrug

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I think yall placing Ahsoka way too high. Theres no reason to place her above Maul. And the official site still indicates he was stronger than her as of Rebels, hence him being the logical to partner with Ezra.


The official site doesn't say maul is stronger than ahsoka. That's an interpretation. If you want Ahsoka to stop being "ranked way too high", you're going to need to back said interpretation up with the context offered by the quote, the source material the quote corresponds to, or information relevant to the source material in question. Note that the last thing I cited is probably the weakest possible evidence so if that's all you have, you shouldn't be surprised if people continue to disregard it.


Here's an example of how to support an interpretation with evidence:




USING CONTEXT OFFERED BY A QUOTE

Strength is equated to aggression. So even if we take logical choice to mean, "strong with the weak", both strong and weak aren't necessarily a matter of --power--. It's also possible weak refers to power and strong refers to aggression.

Both of these interpretations are valid and do not require maul to be more powerful than ahsoka.




USING CORRESPONDING SOURCE MATERIAL
https://youtu.be/Mbld0O1Dj_g?t=154
The linked scene has Maul 'protecting' Ezra by encouraging him to use his aggression(heeey, that's from the quote!!!!). This aggression allows ezra to drive the 7th sister back. This scene also has Maul 'protect ezra' by force choking the seventh sister when she's preoccupied with ezra, this is also an example of aggression(from the quote!!!)/


Do either indicate superiority to Ahsoka?

https://youtu.be/04V0nS8AP2g?t=81



No, not really. My interpretation seems to be backed up by both the quote itself and the relevant source material. Regardless lets finish this with...


using information related to the material

1. Ahsoka can "compete on maul's level" prior to becoming "vastly more skilled" in ROTS both per Filoni and on screen contention.

2. Ahsoka engaged Vader, someone who is "light years" ahead of maul and offered him no opportunity to kill her in 2 and a half minuites of fighting. Vader also is more powerful than anakin, someone who, according to ahsoka, maul was "Lucky" not to be facing. It's worth noting, Ahsoka last saw Anakin in season 5 before he grew "vastly more powerful." Is Maul outclassed by a vastly pre-prime anakin?

:O

3. Ahsoka was able to defend for a bit against one of palpatine's force attacks. Someone we know is more powerful than he was in ROTS back when he was stomping maul in a 1 v2 while toying with him. Palps is also more powerful than vader who is "light years" ahead of Maul.


If we accept your interpretation, one you have yet to provide any proof for, Maul is --superior-- to someone who holds her own against opponents he is utterly outclassed by and who was a near equal of his vastly before her prime.

That doesn't make much sense. Unless you can provide --at a minumum--stronger evidence for your interpretation than one could provide for plausible alternatives, we should dismiss it.

Claiming your opinion is "self-evident" isn't going to cut it.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Scizard
https://prnt.sc/sl0qxh

Ahsoka's lightsaber skills. Also where does the official site say he was stronger.
We discuss the quote here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=668559&pagenumber=1#post17172567

You might notice how Thor doesn't even bother addressing my rebuttal.

I wonder why....

juggernaut74
Originally posted by ozz81
Cool how did Vos defeat dooku in canon exactly ? He kicked Dookus @ss straight up. I think Vos was even injured from a crash landing if my memory serves correctly.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, there are quite a few threads like this.

But excluding the Mortis Gods, and characters with one-off/"moment of need" amps(like 'omni-Jedi' Rey), I think a current list would look something like this:

1.) RoS Palpatine: Kylo stated that he was more powerful than anyone he had ever encountered(which automatically scales him above Luke/Snoke)]
TBF, Kylo didn't actually encounter TLJ Luke. Given Luke's potential is higher than sidious's, it's possible he outgrew him in the interim years...

Scizard
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
We discuss the quote here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=668559&pagenumber=1#post17172567

You might notice how Thor doesn't even bother addressing my rebuttal.

I wonder why....

Didn't Filoni also say that only Vader or Palpatine could take her down by Rebels, or something along those lines?

Galan007
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
TBF, Kylo didn't actually encounter TLJ Luke. Given Luke's potential is higher than sidious's, it's possible he outgrew him in the interim years... Luke cut himself off from the Force after Kylo's betrayal, so I doubt his power would have grown much(if at all at all) during those interim years.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Scizard
Didn't Filoni also say that only Vader or Palpatine could take her down by Rebels, or something along those lines?
IRRC, it was disputed that, the context of the quote included maul. I ended up agreeing but I don't remember why.

Scizard
Ah I see

Sheev
Originally posted by Galan007
Luke cut himself off from the Force after Kylo's betrayal, so I doubt his power would have grown much(if at all at all) during those interim years. You reckon he became stronger than he was before after opening up to the force again?

Galan007
Originally posted by Sheev
You reckon he became stronger than he was before after opening up to the force again? Doubt it.

Luke cut himself off from the Force entirely after Kylo's betrayal(which took place about 6 years before TFA/TLJ), and in his own words, went to the most unfindable place in the galaxy to die.

And it's not like he was doing any real soul-searching to try and further his spiritual enlightenment or w/e(like Kenobi did when he went to Tatooine), because when Rey found Luke, he was still emotionally broken and very much 'anti-Jedi'.

Sheev
I see.

Just a thought- but isnt it possible that Luke might have chosen to cut himself off from the force well after Kylo's betrayal? So perhaps he wasnt cut off from it for the entire 6 years??

Maybe?

Galan007
I don't think so.

In Secrets of the Jedi, Luke implies that he cut himself off from the Force right after Kylo's betrayal, and remained that way for "years":
https://i.imgur.com/lEfGKI2.jpg

And in The Rise of Kylo Ren, Luke's students were no longer able to sense him either:
https://i.imgur.com/rd7Vkd5.jpg
"You didn't sense our teacher or anyone else. Neither did I. Normally the whole Force sings with Master Skywalker's presence..."

So yeah, I think Luke went into 'Force-hiding' pretty much immediately after Kylo turned on him, and stayed that way until TLJ.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think so.

In Secrets of the Jedi, Luke implies that he cut himself off from the Force right after Kylo's betrayal, and remained that way for "years":
https://i.imgur.com/lEfGKI2.jpg

And in The Rise of Kylo Ren, Luke's students were no longer able to sense him either:
https://i.imgur.com/rd7Vkd5.jpg
"You didn't sense our teacher or anyone else. Neither did I. Normally the whole Force sings with Master Skywalker's presence..."

So yeah, I think Luke went into 'Force-hiding' pretty much immediately after Kylo turned on him, and stayed that way until TLJ.
Why in the world would those two pursue kylo if they thought he killed luke. They realize they're hopefully outclassed right.

Galan007
Yeah, they fully believed Kylo had killed Luke(who was obviously WAAAY more powerful than them), and Kylo himself casually owned them in the same issue. Why in the f*ck they still thought they'd be able to defeat him is beyond me.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.