No tiering for Star Wars characters?

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carthage

MrMind
the list would get too long and messy, after star wars, then people want other fictions


kmc is an extremely old website, we can't make characters profile here. so tiering is just long written lists. we are not big sites like vsbattles or comicvine

even though our tiering is infinitely more accurate than vsbattles due to superior knowledge

Galan007
Pretty much.

As much as I would personally like to try and rank SW characters, it opens things up to the cross-genre side of the spectrum a bit too much.

Stoic
I've always seen Jedis/Sith to range between low meta to high meta. Possibly low herald but that's a push.

Smurph

NemeBro

DarkSaint85
All I know is, I am the champion of the low meta tier with Obi.

-Pr-
The biggest problem I have with Star Wars tiering is that, while comics are very strict about "no, you have to use the 616 version of Spider-Man" which is only ever printed in one medium, with Star Wars, you have to include comics, movies and books.

I'm not saying you can't reconcile an average from three different sources. I just don't think it's particularly easy. Plus, there are things like how much PIS benefits someone like Ahsoka.

DarkSaint85
Yeah. I mean, when it came to the BZ as an example (honestly not tooting my own horn here), I was using sources like the books with little screen grabs of the text. That would really mess things up, especially as there's no real way to verify if I'm just posting shit.

For example:

https://i.postimg.cc/65Mhd5p2/IMG-20200529-100522.jpg
Omg Obi has nanosecond reactions! Who would check?

-Pr-
Yeah, pretty much. thumb up

CosmicComet
Jedi in movies: Nearly dies by lava.

Also Jedi in other canon mediums written by fanboy writers: Black Hole [email protected]

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
The biggest problem I have with Star Wars tiering is that, while comics are very strict about "no, you have to use the 616 version of Spider-Man" which is only ever printed in one medium, with Star Wars, you have to include comics, movies and books.

I'm not saying you can't reconcile an average from three different sources. I just don't think it's particularly easy. Plus, there are things like how much PIS benefits someone like Ahsoka. Yeah, SW is so much different than comics in terms of 'what counts'.

In comic debates, we use what happened on panel only. Handbooks can only be used to corroborate what's on panel, but that's about the only time they matter... And obviously TV shows and writer comments are worthless.

It's the complete opposite in SW. As long as the info doesn't directly contradict the movies, everything is canon. So the movies, novels, comics, YouTube shorts, TV shows, guidebook entries, and even Twitter comments(from members of the Lucasfilm Storygroup) are all canon, and all have to be considered when discussing the characters.

That would make a lot of heads explode here, me thinks.

StiltmanFTW
The new canon is pretty easy to understand, though.

Unlike the pre-Disney one.

Galan007
It's way easy to understand: all material is on equal footing in terms of canonicity. Everything published is just as canon as the movies.

The 'levels of canon' BS they had in Legends was always so damn stupid to me.

Stoic
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Jedi in movies: Nearly dies by lava.

Also Jedi in other canon mediums written by fanboy writers: Black Hole [email protected]

All of the comic companies have glass cannons though. Physical toughness has never been an issue for placing them within a tier. Just saying.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, SW is so much different than comics in terms of 'what counts'.

In comic debates, we use what happened on panel only. Handbooks can only be used to corroborate what's on panel, but that's about the only time they matter... And obviously TV shows and writer comments are worthless.

It's the complete opposite in SW. As long as the info doesn't directly contradict the movies, everything is canon. So the movies, novels, comics, YouTube shorts, TV shows, guidebook entries, and even Twitter comments(from members of the Lucasfilm Storygroup) are all canon, and all have to be considered when discussing the characters.

That would make a lot of heads explode here, me thinks.

That's crazy. I didn't know they were doing that now. I mean, Star Trek did something similar too with its novels and comics, so it's not a new concept to me, but still.

StiltmanFTW
It's been working rather well so far.

cdtm
Originally posted by NemeBro
Yes, anyone who can resist telepathy or telekinesis can resist/block the Force manipulations that manifest as telepathy or telekinesis and I have no idea why anyone would think otherwise.

The manifestation of a power should only be treated as differently due to its source if there are other examples of the manifestation in-universe and the ones from that source are in fact treated differently.

Because manifesting as TP doesn't make it TP.

Like with Max Lords power in classic JLI. He nudged minds with some effort and a nosebleed, so must be tp right?


Only he affected Martian Manhunter without any awareness of being manipulated. Max was far from super powerful at the time, he simply went through J'onn's defenses like they didn't exist. Suggesting it is something other then TP.


And for the record, Star Wars legends canon did have non force tp. Spice gave people that ability, which is why smugglers ran it.

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's been working rather well so far.

Have you not seen the arguments over CW Maul? Well is not the word I'd use.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by cdtm
Because manifesting as TP doesn't make it TP.

Like with Max Lords power in classic JLI. He nudged minds with some effort and a nosebleed, so must be tp right?


Only he affected Martian Manhunter without any awareness of being manipulated. Max was far from super powerful at the time, he simply went through J'onn's defenses like they didn't exist. Suggesting it is something other then TP.


And for the record, Star Wars legends canon did have non force tp. Spice gave people that ability, which is why smugglers ran it.

Plus, the Force doesn't really work on others outside the SW galaxy. And that's not a "oh the Speed Force is DC only" type argument, but is a specific weakness to Jedi/Force sensitives.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
Have you not seen the arguments over CW Maul? Well is not the word I'd use.

What's the problem with Maul again?

Aside from him being Quan's favourite wink

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What's the problem with Maul again?

Aside from him being Quan's favourite wink

A lot of people got mad because he didn't roflstomp Ahsoka in the last season of Clone Wars, even though it was that classic case of him not wanting to fight as much as she did, and that usual Sith arrogance at play.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
A lot of people got mad because he didn't roflstomp Ahsoka in the last season of Clone Wars, even though it was that classic case of him not wanting to fight as much as she did, and that usual Sith arrogance at play.

Maul is overrated, simple as that.

"A lot of people" also got mad when Kenobi b!tched him in Rebels even easier than he did in the non-canon "Old Wounds" comic.

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Maul is overrated, simple as that.

"A lot of people" also got mad when Kenobi b!tched him in Rebels even easier than he did in the non-canon "Old Wounds" comic.

On that I don't disagree. People really don't understand how out of practice the guy is. Yeah, it's great going up against some Mandos with blasters, but trained Jedi who are actually good duelists too that are constantly honing their craft?

He's not on that level. Maybe he would be if he hadn't spent ten years in a pit, but still.

StiltmanFTW
Ahsoka is also Filoni's pet character. What did you expect?

She did well against Vader, too...

And he wants her to be still alive by the time of TRoS...

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Ahsoka is also Filoni's pet character. What did you expect?

She did well against Vader, too...

And he wants her to be still alive by the time of TRoS...

Hey, I like Ahsoka, but I do believe there's an argument for her being inconsistent.

If anyone is underrated, it's Kenobi imo. Man has a list of defeated opponents any Jedi would be proud of.

StiltmanFTW
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/49/fb/56/49fb56df6e5e40b40039a3b70d5382a7.jpg

She's very "likeable", yes... shifty

-Pr-
No wonder she left. All those demanding masters.

StiltmanFTW
Especially Master Windu with his bbc "shatterpoint" technique haermm

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Especially Master Windu with his bbc "shatterpoint" technique haermm

laughing out loud Jesus.

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's crazy. I didn't know they were doing that now. I mean, Star Trek did something similar too with its novels and comics, so it's not a new concept to me, but still. Yep. All published material is 100% canon now.

And I have to say that the Lucasfilm Storygroup has done a great job keeping everything cohesive at this point.

zopzop
Tiering Star Wars characters would be a sh|tshow. You have Dooku destroying Kenobi and Anakin, then holding his own vs Yoda. Later you have him owning Kenobi again but losing to Anakin (who later went on to get his ass kicked by Kenobi).

Galan007
There are canon explanations/reasons for that, but most 'normal'(ie. non-nerdy) SW fans wouldn't be aware of the underlying context. So yeah, shitshow indeed. thumb up

zopzop
Originally posted by Galan007
There are canon explanations/reasons for that, .....
What is the explanation for Dooku and Anakin losing? I'm genuinely curious.

Galan007
In canon, 'light side' Anakin was about equal to Dooku. But during their fight in the movie, Anakin briefly tapped into his rage(with complete clarity), which enabled him to stomp Dooku.

Kenobi was able to do so well against Anakin at the end of the movie for a few reasons:
a.) He had fought alongside Anakin for years, and had gained an intimate familiarity with Anakin's lightsaber style -- he essentially knew exactly what to expect during their fight.
b.) Anakin was an emotional trainwreck, and that sort of spiritual conflict has a massive impact on a character's overall abilities(look what happened to Kylo after he killed Han.)
c.) Anakin was overconfident, which can also be a significant hindrance(look at pretty much every Maul fight ever, lol.)

-Pr-
d) Kenobi is that ****ing good.

Galan007
Kenobi is criminally underrated by most. thumb up

StiltmanFTW
Then you need to consider their fighting styles.


Anyway, Star Wars characters are extras to this forum (same with Mortal Kombat), that's why no tiers were made.

DarkSaint85
Kenobi is the best

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