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Even a few years ago it felt like you could make the case that Steve's physical feats (strength, endurance, durability, reactions etc) were a cut above Bruce's.

I'm not sure that's the case anymore. If anything the opposite may be true.

Where do they stand in a feat war iyo now?

I know you hate Bats, but stop.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I know you hate Bats, but stop.

Who are you and what have you done with Stilt?

In my opinion, Batman on average can rise to Captain America's level, but Captain America can rise to a level above Batman's average if that makes sense. Writers that work on Captain America can always one up Batman because Batman on average has always been written as peak human, while Captain America is a Super Soldier, which gives them more leeway to score a bit higher in terms of pulling off power stunts.

I don't think writers take that into account, at all.

Peak humans aren't taking sucker hits from bloodlusted WW without any body armour and when injured.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I know you hate Bats, but stop.

I did nothing to express hatred in this thread.

Genuinely curious if Cap can still stack up, because I don't think he can. Marvel doesn't seem to emphasize him as much anymore.

Oh it's not even that.

Batman has dodged HV AFTER it was fired by a bloodlusted Superman.

Has managed to sneak up on the Spectre.

Those are just two feats off the top of my head that Cap can't match, Serum or no.

Yeah, I guess I haven't seen a speed feat from Cap that rivals this:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

Bloodlusted Superman, and the HV was fired before Batman moved.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't think writers take that into account, at all.

Peak humans aren't taking sucker hits from bloodlusted WW without any body armour and when injured.

I did say on average, unless his foes can also weather having their faces pushed through concrete.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, I guess I haven't seen a speed feat from Cap that rivals this:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

Bloodlusted Superman, and the HV was fired before Batman moved.

What if Batman saw his eyes glow, just before he shot off the HV?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, I guess I haven't seen a speed feat from Cap that rivals this:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4YE61fVjlYE/WIqkfxxEMVI/AAAAAAABqdo/J-ejOY55c1g5k27LXSI5XDJCFUbRq1aSACLcB/s1600/33_009.jpg

Bloodlusted Superman, and the HV was fired before Batman moved.

Yeah...the way they drew that definitely makes it seem like batman waited for the HV to be fired BEFORE he decided to react to it.

Originally posted by Stoic
What if Batman saw his eyes glow, just before he shot off the HV?

Except we see the beams halfway towards Batman.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I did nothing to express hatred in this thread.

Genuinely curious if Cap can still stack up, because I don't think he can. Marvel doesn't seem to emphasize him as much anymore.

He can.

Bats may seem good only when you use the composite version.

Puny Brucie had to cheat in order to beat unprepared KGBeast without his gear and without his robot arm.

If one-armed D-lister can assrape Wayne, then Steve can shitstomp the entire Batfamily and half of the JLA.

And don't get me started how Old Man Batman (Thomas Wayne) has beaten like 3/4 of the Batfamily AFTER allowing them to land their cheapshots...


And Rebirth Thomas wasn't even confirmed to use Miraclo and has - relatively to his age and when compared to others - little fighting experience...


Cap would probably steamroll all of DC's streets in a single comic, tbh.

Stilt is mad salty Cap can't win a feat war with Batman lol

Cap was dodging lasers in zero gravity, back when Batman was getting raped by clowns, penguins, mad hatters and pickpocketers.

slade is superior to them both, but even slade can't outfeats bruce

Pfft everyone has dodged lasers.

What else do you have

Originally posted by MrMind
slade is superior to them both, but even slade can't outfeats bruce

You know, there was a time when I would've agreed with you.


But now? After Bats sodomized Slade several times already and it has almost become a new DC tradition?


Slade may not even be Robin level these days.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pfft everyone has dodged lasers.

What else do you have

Steve never lost to a one-armed D-lister

depends, loses to batman is his middle name but other times he has insane feats

plus ikon suit is standard equipment nowadays isn't it?

idk...he was really impressive in his n52 solos run, you'd think with all his showing against high level metas he would never have trouble with batman but here we are

maybe batman has really gotten that good

I always thought n52 slade is more impressive than p52 slade despite having less feats. p52 slade was just walking PIS, on a good day he can take down heralds (see identity crisis), on a bad day he gets stalemated by streets

I mean he didnt even outperform dick in batman's suit that one time in titan book

Ahhh not the thread, sorry . It's high feats only.

Originally posted by MrMind
plus ikon suit is standard equipment nowadays isn't it?

Not really, no.

Unless you want to argue that the Ikon suit doesn't do a single thing to protect him from getting stabbed in the face.

Be my guest and say so, I'll gladly bump all the threads with Ikon Slade vs. guys with swords, spears or claws

i wouldn't know, i learn my slade from golgo, that's what he says so i follow

#golgo bless

Originally posted by MrMind
depends, loses to batman is his middle name but other times he has insane feats

He's had lots of exposure in recent years and got some feats, yes.

But... back in the day... Post-Crisis Slade beat the living shit out of Bruce in their first encounter. Now that was impressive, some even argued that Slade wasn't at 100% at the time.

Originally posted by MrMind
idk...he was really impressive in his n52 solos run, you'd think with all his showing against high level metas he would never have trouble with batman but here we are

I don't know. Batman performs admirably against high lv metas, too.

Originally posted by MrMind
maybe batman has really gotten that good

He always has been.

I doubt he's gotten much better, since a loser like one-armed KGBeast raped him (before Bruce cheated and used the batgrapple).

As good as Bats is, DC always tried to remind us that he can't handle combatants who are both very skilled and have sufficiently enhanced physicals in melee combat without resorting to equipment or tricks.

Originally posted by MrMind
I always thought n52 slade is more impressive than p52 slade despite having less feats. p52 slade was just walking PIS, on a good day he can take down heralds (see identity crisis), on a bad day he gets stalemated by streets

I mean he didnt even outperform dick in batman's suit that one time in titan book

N52 Slade seemed to be far more reliable on exotic one-arc-only equipment, though?

80s-90s slade was fighting the entire teen titans, there was a reason comic fandom calling slade walking PIS 10 years ago

things def changed after n52, I'd say he's written consistently to the level where he's supposed to be, not doing things out of his capabilities

but yeah I agree DS stocks has def dropped over the years, another example is Cassie

batman def has gotten way better after n52 though, or else you wouldn't see those dozens scans darksaint constantly posting around lol

the other dc street that has gotten considerably better is Jason

idk, I'm not familiar with street levelers

Good post.

Disagreed on the Batman getting better part, at least not skill-wise (though having his whole body healed/rejuvenated def made him better physically, even if it messes up the muscle memory at first, same with the Punisher), but you seem right about the rest.

It was easy for Jason to get better, as he didn't have too many appearances to begin with and he got more training.

Less said about Cassie, the better.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except we see the beams halfway towards Batman.

But, what if Batman saw his eyes glow before the shot was fired giving him a chance to dodge? Or what are you trying to say? Batman is FTL? If so, why does he need a car? I mean are you saying that he's as fast as Jay, or maybe Barry? What was the point of the laser showing?

reaction speed is not travel speed

basic 101 stuff

I was asking DS what about his perspective. But now that you mentioned this, and fully acknowledge that reaction speeds, and travel speeds are different, I'm hoping that in the future when someone states that when a particular green brute was able to nail a speedster square on the jaw to disrupt an attempted speed blitz, that your position doesn't suddenly change.

DS' perspective is that Batman moved after Supes fired the HV blast, when it was already on its way to frying Batman.

Basically, he focuses on what the panels show us.

And since there is no extra commentary, statements or narrator boxes, we can't blame him for doing that.

what speedster has slower reaction speed than the green brute?

Sentry flew right into his punch, and he lives several seconds ahead.

I thought you were referring to someone like the flash

Sentry is extremely fast. Able to cross light years in moments. Well gotta go play my DCUO dailies. 8 sp shy of 500 lol. C'ya MM.

Sentry wasn't trying to dodge anything in his fight against WWH.

He even wanted to get hit, so he could lose control and go all out.

It's still a good feat that Hulk was able to react, but not any different from Superman getting anally raped by random bricks every week or so.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Sentry wasn't trying to dodge anything in his fight against WWH.

He even wanted to get hit, so he could lose control and go all out.

It's still a good feat that Hulk was able to react, but not any different from Superman getting anally raped by random bricks every week or so.



https://imgur.com/a/RUrI6dE

Originally posted by Stoic
But, what if Batman saw his eyes glow before the shot was fired giving him a chance to dodge? Or what are you trying to say? Batman is FTL? If so, why does he need a car? I mean are you saying that he's as fast as Jay, or maybe Barry? What was the point of the laser showing?

Yeah, pretty much what Stilt said. But to elaborate:

If Batman saw the eyes glow, then dodged, we are basically saying Superman saw Batman dodge, and then went "ah, phuck it, I'm committed now", and continued firing at the spot where Batman had jumped from.

Even if he did so, the art does not support this. The beams are mid page, flying towards Batman. Superman is explicitly bloodlusted, and trying to burn Bats.

The point of the showing is that it is a high-end feat, that I am using to prove that writers don't give two hoots about Batman being 'peak human'. Batman does what Batman does.

Batman bench presses more than Cap, explicitly on panel.

Eat it, Stilt.

Originally posted by Stoic
I was asking DS what about his perspective. But now that you mentioned this, and fully acknowledge that reaction speeds, and travel speeds are different, I'm hoping that in the future when someone states that when a particular green brute was able to nail a speedster square on the jaw to disrupt an attempted speed blitz, that your position doesn't suddenly change.

Batman not only reacted, but leapt from point A to point B (a short distance, but still) faster than those HV beams. In a thread that asks for high-end feats, that is surely a good contender.

Especially as he is only 'peak human'.

The only people who care about the designations and not feats are the ones trying to discredit Batman and ignore his feats while accepting Cap's.

The comics/writers don't.

Well ok. We can do this.

Strength (lifting/striking)
Speed (reflex/travel)
Durability
Stamina

Let's stack them against each other. Gadgets and stealth are OBVIOUSLY Batman's, so I haven't included them.

In Philadelphia.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Seriously? Where? Batman's routine is bench-pressing 2500+ lbs :
https://i.ibb.co/zPPm1JG/xJYwyry.jpg

Cap's is lower:
https://i.ibb.co/88bTdTg/QBDi5Jv.jpg

And Cap's curls are about 500 lbs:
https://i.ibb.co/1JKBP6F/2606293-curl500tu1.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
In Philadelphia.
ha-som

I don't think Gruenwald's series has any relevance today. He was adamant on Cap not being a superhuman. Starting from Brubaker, Cap is a legit superhuman and three times stronger than Bucky who is himself a peak human.

https://qphs.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-177dc8e2042b85f31cde99db0cbe1d87

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't think Gruenwald's series has any relevance today. He was adamant on Cap not being a superhuman.

It's worth noting that Gruenwald's Cap - without SSS - was still pretty much peak human.

Much like BP w/o HSH, but I digress.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Starting from Brubaker, Cap is a legit superhuman and three times stronger than Bucky who is himself a peak human.

https://qphs.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-177dc8e2042b85f31cde99db0cbe1d87



Cable gave him similar props:

https://i.ibb.co/TYSgy0s/cable.png

And Cable is no slouch at physical attributes, despite his age.

So what I'm seeing is a lot of nice statements,but no actual feats for this feat war.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't think Gruenwald's series has any relevance today. He was adamant on Cap not being a superhuman. Starting from Brubaker, Cap is a legit superhuman and three times stronger than Bucky who is himself a peak human.

https://qphs.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-177dc8e2042b85f31cde99db0cbe1d87 It's the same character, he hasn't gotten "double super hero soldier serum" power-ups. Designations of "peak human" or "super-soldier" don't matter it's just masturbatory nonsense. What matters is raw direct comparisons and in doesn't get more explicit than these hard numbers -- which, in this case, Batman is shown as superior.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's worth noting that Gruenwald's Cap - without SSS - was still pretty much peak human.

Much like BP w/o HSH, but I digress.





Cable gave him similar props:

https://i.ibb.co/TYSgy0s/cable.png

And Cable is no slouch at physical attributes, despite his age. Batman gets props from the Justice League, as he beats them mercilessly with Bat-kicks.

Wasn't Bravo (who had "double human strength and speed" also inferior to Cap?

Same with Steve and Avengers.

Poor Thor is written like Cap's chihuahua dog these days...

Thor doesn't even need Steve to humiliate him, his son can do the same.

Pretty sure there isn't a notable street leveler that wouldn't do the same (all of them being "Peak Human â„¢" of course, because that's what matters)

edit: those ruined characters are supposed to be "trademark symbol"

Grue's Cap was a teetotaller, much like Abhi here.

Modern Steve drinks with f*cking Wolverine in shady bars

Batman crushes Daredevil in strength and in striking power. But that's another thread.

That is the best raw numbers comparison with them doing the exact same thing that we have between Bruce and Cap. It's hard to ignore -- no matter your opinion of the writer (which is another discussion entirely). Using this same line of thinking, we can simply ignore any writer we don't like -- and trust me, I'd like to do so to many.

We agree on the opinion overall -- I think they're roughly even physically so... eh.

I'm talking about them naked, of course. In costume and with gadgets Batman pulls his dick out.

Didnt Cap casually toss Terrax or someone, who weighs over 2000 lbs?

Tripped him, I think.


Wolverine threw Dragon Man, who weighs 6000 lbs.

So he's stronger than both Cap and Bats together

Originally posted by abhilegend
I disagree with Batman crushing Daredevil.

I can also cite Batman unable to lift 630 lbs in Venom arc. Yes, in the 90s, and then he bench presses 600 lbs of dirt buried while dehydrated, suffocating and drugged in the 2000s. And the aforementioned 2500 lbs+ above. The advantage of being Batman is that he doesn't have a 'super-serum', so he can simply be argued to have gotten stronger - and if there's anything Batman does, it's to improve himself.

Don't mistake this for what it's not -- they both have feats above this -- but it's hard to have a literal exactly replica of a showing with numbers shown and one of them to come out superior.

*runs to abhi's rescue*


You used an old lifting scan, too

Batman's plates aren't really readable, but I don't want this thread turn into another discussion about this. It's been done to the death and nothing came out of it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
*runs to abhi's rescue*


You used an old lifting scan, too

Batman's plates aren't really readable, but I don't want this thread turn into another discussion about this. It's been done to the death and nothing came out of it. I know, but my point is that Batman has done the same feat, only with better numbers, recently. In the 90s he was mostly a lean martial artist, in the 2000s he's basically a hulkish brute. Cap hasn't -- and due to the nature of his 'strength-source' he is constant.

Actually, we're still learning new things about Cap's SSS.

Evidently, in a few years it will allow him to bench press Batman's weight

Cap is lucky Fisk is busy and doesn't come to show him again what "peak human" strength actually looks like.

He pulls choppers from the sky, he's already above Batman.

Fisk anally raped Tombstone; there's no shame in losing to him.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He pulls choppers from the sky, he's already above Batman.

Fisk anally raped Tombstone; there's no shame in losing to him. Batman would pull Cap pulling the chopper

Fisk will always be Cap fans kryptonite.Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh sure? Then again you're using scans from 80s for Cap.

Anyway, in my view Cap is stronger and Batman is more skilled. The age of the scan matters in Bats case because he has the exact same thing later in life and he surpasses it.

Anyway, I agree. I think strength is negligible.

No, Fisk is the Hulk among street levelers.

Sometimes even surpassing the Hulk himself, who got punked by what some argued to be a Doombot (though I believe it was Doom himself).

Spider-Man needed several upgrades to man-up and beat him.

Wonder how Fisk would handle Bane's Snyder gauntlet?

If street levels had their own God it be Fisk.

Kind of a shame we never got to see a Fisk/Iron Fist fight.

Fisk is a thicc boy, deal with it.

I think Superhuman and human is misunderstood a bit.

For example, a 160 lbs dude being able to lift two tons is superhuman.

A dude of fisk's size and muscle mass being able to lift 5 is not.

Fisk is stronger as a human compared to the 160 lbs superhuman.

That's why you see Fisk absolutely bodying noobs.

You secretly hate Danny.

Woo woo shit doesn't work on Fisk.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
You secretly hate Danny.

Woo woo shit doesn't work on Fisk.


Tbh, the one I really wanted to see go at it with Fisk was Elektra.

Originally posted by cdtm
Wonder how Fisk would handle Bane's Snyder gauntlet?

Bane fought nobody of importance there and feigned his defeat against the Bats.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bane fought never of importance there and feigned his defeat against the Bats.


Yeah, seen those scans. Pretty sure the rest of the gauntlet was legit, he just pretended to lose again the headbutt.

Glad for it, that bat headbutt was a pretty lame way to lose after everything he fought through.

at least the art was good, what happened to finch, which series is he drawing these days

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, seen those scans. Pretty sure the rest of the gauntlet was legit, he just pretended to lose again the headbutt.

Glad for it, that bat headbutt was a pretty lame way to lose after everything he fought through.

Yeah. "I'm Batman" headbutt was retarded.

Gauntlet (excluding Bats) was legit, but they were all weaklings.

Originally posted by MrMind
at least the art was good, what happened to finch, which series is he drawing these days

Finch got fired after he had Batman jobbing to Killer Croc, the weakest character in comics.

Wait, really?


I remember Croc beat down Bane with two broken arms.


And Azrael couldn't even hurt him with bludgeoning.

Cap's mom name was Martha. Bruce has no feats against that.