Who's as great as Wolverine

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AlbertoJohnAvil
in terms of character development


https://i.postimg.cc/cKmfLKGZ/the-return-of-wolverine-cover-1103604.jpg

DarkSaint85
Superman

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman

https://64.media.tumblr.com/d6ebf93436518148c50e462f2ce3e1d4/tumblr_n7bxjkIoo91t0demio6_250.gif

-Pr-
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
in terms of character development


https://i.postimg.cc/cKmfLKGZ/the-return-of-wolverine-cover-1103604.jpg

A fair few characters have just as good if not better character development. Some even without the constant changes to their origin because of the creatively bankrupt people that get assigned his comics.

As far as appeal though, few can match it.

Wonder Man

lawest9
👍

carver9
No one

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by -Pr-
A fair few characters have just as good if not better character development. Some even without the constant changes to their origin because of the creatively bankrupt people that get assigned his comics.

As far as appeal though, few can match it.

What about Rogue? I can get behind her in that department imo

You have a young girl who starts bad due to manipulation. Her powers make her feel miserable and isolated. Girl meets guy and those feelings of inadequacy and fear of being manipulated rise again. As the years go by, she not only becomes more capable, but more independent. "She don't need no man" begins. She becomes a formidable X team leader and is lowkey one of the X-Men's better strategists. She becomes denmother and warrior to the new gen of mutants and continues to lead new and higher profile teams

From Dc I'd say Nightwing, Wildstorm I'd pick Grifter, Image, I'd say invincible, and Darkness from Top Cow

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by carver9
No one lol

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by carver9
No one

Prove it

AlbertoJohnAvil
Nightwing is undeniable if you've read Batman comics and watched his progression from little side kick to being Batman's equal and arguably superior.
Grifter was just a bargain basement Merc but then they progressed him to a coda warrior and showed him having that up and down period while he was powered.

-Pr-
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
What about Rogue? I can get behind her in that department imo

You have a young girl who starts bad due to manipulation. Her powers make her feel miserable and isolated. Girl meets guy and those feelings of inadequacy and fear of being manipulated rise again. As the years go by, she not only becomes more capable, but more independent. "She don't need no man" begins. She becomes a formidable X team leader and is lowkey one of the X-Men's better strategists. She becomes denmother and warrior to the new gen of mutants and continues to lead new and higher profile teams

From Dc I'd say Nightwing, Wildstorm I'd pick Grifter, Image, I'd say invincible, and Darkness from Top Cow

I might not agree with the part about Rogue being a great strategist, but otherwise, sure, those are good picks.

Diesldude
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superman

They developed his character from before he was even born, documented his infancy in the ship, childhood on the farm, high school and college years, first job, friends and love interests and Heroism until his death and after he came back. Has to be Superman, They developed him pretty thoroughly if you ask me.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by -Pr-
I might not agree with the part about Rogue being a great strategist, but otherwise, sure, those are good picks.

Really? I think after her first team she started showing out. Uncanny Avengers not so much, but I also don't think the writer understood her. But Utopia when the hunter wolf things returned? And X-Men Legacy had her consistently devising new strategies in unknown and alien situations.

I would definitely put get above Storm and Nightcrawler as far as team leader and strategist goes.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by Diesldude
They developed his character from before he was even born, documented his infancy in the ship, childhood on the farm, high school and college years, first job, friends and love interests and Heroism until his death and after he came back. Has to be Superman, They developed him pretty thoroughly if you ask me.

He doesn't really have character progression, DC is too comfortable in keeping him the straight up boy scout.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
He doesn't really have character progression, DC is too comfortable in keeping him the straight up boy scout. His is a flat character arc. His character is not meant to develop.

Wonder Man
Banshee and Darwin

-Pr-
Superman has some pretty great character development imo, it just all tends to take place before he becomes the established Superman that slaps around Darkseid and meets up with the Justice League for dinner on Tuesday. Look at Morrison's Action Comics run. Or Birthright.

But when he hits "Superman status", any problems he has tend to either be exterior ones, or ones where he has to remind himself of the man he is. He can have self-doubt and worry, but he still comes back to being Superman.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Really? I think after her first team she started showing out. Uncanny Avengers not so much, but I also don't think the writer understood her. But Utopia when the hunter wolf things returned? And X-Men Legacy had her consistently devising new strategies in unknown and alien situations.

I would definitely put get above Storm and Nightcrawler as far as team leader and strategist goes.

She's all right. I just wouldn't use the word "great" is all.

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Prove it

Trying to get Carver to prove something?

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman has some pretty great character development imo, it just all tends to take place before he becomes the established Superman that slaps around Darkseid and meets up with the Justice League for dinner on Tuesday. Look at Morrison's Action Comics run. Or Birthright.

But when he hits "Superman status", any problems he has tend to either be exterior ones, or ones where he has to remind himself of the man he is. He can have self-doubt and worry, but he still comes back to being Superman.



She's all right. I just wouldn't use the word "great" is all.

thumb up

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman has some pretty great character development imo, it just all tends to take place before he becomes the established Superman that slaps around Darkseid and meets up with the Justice League for dinner on Tuesday. Look at Morrison's Action Comics run. Or Birthright.

But when he hits "Superman status", any problems he has tend to either be exterior ones, or ones where he has to remind himself of the man he is. He can have self-doubt and worry, but he still comes back to being Superman.



She's all right. I just wouldn't use the word "great" is all.

when you look at development especially in the context of wolverine for example Superman doesnt compare. Wolverine went from angry loner, to father figure/tough uncle, to X-Men leader/professor Xish.
Superman is always the same Superman no matter what they do with him. Even when they had a good idea going with new 52 being kind of dickish in a cool way they keep falling back to that boy scout idea.

-Pr-
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
when you look at development especially in the context of wolverine for example Superman doesnt compare. Wolverine went from angry loner, to father figure/tough uncle, to X-Men leader/professor Xish.
Superman is always the same Superman no matter what they do with him. Even when they had a good idea going with new 52 being kind of dickish in a cool way they keep falling back to that boy scout idea.

You keep saying Superman, like that was how he started. He had to become Superman, and that's where his development lies.

And no, New 52 was pretty different to the usual "classic Superman" personality wise.

And let's not forget, Wolverine has had a lot of shit too. His origin has been rejigged so many times it makes Superman's look set in stone.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by -Pr-
You keep saying Superman, like that was how he started. He had to become Superman, and that's where his development lies.

And no, New 52 was pretty different to the usual "classic Superman" personality wise.

And let's not forget, Wolverine has had a lot of shit too. His origin has been rejigged so many times it makes Superman's look set in stone.

Superman HAS always been Superman. The only thing development wise that changed was his power set. Beyond that he's always been truth justice and the American way. They've added periods of self doubt here and there but they've only served to bring the character back to where they always put him.

BrolyBlack

BrolyBlack
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Superman HAS always been Superman. The only thing development wise that changed was his power set. Beyond that he's always been truth justice and the American way. They've added periods of self doubt here and there but they've only served to bring the character back to where they always put him.

Superman has not always been Superman you mouth breathing retard.

Your second post only confirms how ignorant you are. Superman started off as a baby named Kal, that landed in a field and was named Clark.

AlbertoJohnAvil
laughing out loud Ok prove it. Enlighten me, I'LL wait

BrolyBlack
Proof?

Read all the Smallville comics

Suck it *****, point proventhumb up

Smallville Comics

AlbertoJohnAvil
laughing out loud laughing out loud Then he mentions Smallville like that wasn't a terrible show. I can give you 20 reasons why Smallville was one of the worst shows to ever be made on television but that's another topic for a different time, hit my pms if you wanna discuss it though

BrolyBlack
You are two stupid to realize I was insulting you by saying watch the show.



Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Proof?

Read all the Smallville comics

Suck it *****, point proventhumb up

Smallville Comics

cdtm
Lobo.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
You are two stupid to realize I was insulting you by saying watch the show.

you weren't introduced to Superman as a baby. Just like the rest of us that was the backstory.

BrolyBlack
Were you introduced to Logan as a baby?

-Pr-
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Superman HAS always been Superman.

No he hasn't. And that's a dumb ****ing comment to make. Seriously. You should be better than that.

Or are you one of those people that saw Kill Bill 2, thought that Superman speech was witty, and since then has always believed that Superman and the Clark Kent that grew up on Smallville are basically the same?

==

Also, Smallville is a mixed bag. Good early and late seasons. Shite in the middle.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Superman has not always been Superman you mouth breathing retard.

Your second post only confirms how ignorant you are. Superman started off as a baby named Kal, that landed in a field and was named Clark.

Don't call people retards.

BrolyBlack
laughing out loud

Juntai
Supes is probably the most fleshed out 3 dimensional comics character.
Bats.
Constantine.
Spiderman.
Magneto.
Daredevil.
Starman - Jack Knight.
Wonder Woman.

I'd say Wolvie is right in the mix. Probably even ahead of Daredevil on this quick list, who I personally prefer.

But that's just the Superheros, otherwise we have guys like Morpheus, Spider Jerusalem and Custer to think about too.


But Superman is the top of the pile.

Khazra Reborn
XO Manowar has had a pretty crazy character arc. Angry 5th century Visigoth to emperor of an alien planet.

AlbertoJohnAvil
Originally posted by -Pr-
No he hasn't. And that's a dumb ****ing comment to make. Seriously. You should be better than that.

Or are you one of those people that saw Kill Bill 2, thought that Superman speech was witty, and since then has always believed that Superman and the Clark Kent that grew up on Smallville are basically the same?

==

Also, Smallville is a mixed bag. Good early and late seasons. Shite in the middle.



Don't call people retards.

we are talking character development. What changes to Superman's character REALLY occurred throughout his storylines that actually changed the form and function of his character?

DarkSaint85
He doesn't need to be that great.

Op just asks for the named character to be as great as Wolvy, who is still largely the same gruff beer drinking loner feral warrior he was in the 70s.
Oh yeah am sure you can bring some isolated examples up, but his character hasn't developed much from in universe since the 70s.

Logan is a pretty low bar to set.

krisblaze
Captain Britain, Havok, Nightwing and Wally West.

-Pr-
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
we are talking character development. What changes to Superman's character REALLY occurred throughout his storylines that actually changed the form and function of his character?

We're supposed to be, yes.

His journey from "guy on farm" to "Superman" has been documented by most of the big writers that have written Superman over the years.

Byrne, Loeb, Morrison, Johns etc have all written pieces that either tell us about or show us Clark Kent growing up and becoming Superman, and his development along the way.

Diesldude
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
we are talking character development. What changes to Superman's character REALLY occurred throughout his storylines that actually changed the form and function of his character?

That signature laughing out loud

Parmaniac
Was that some kind of stipulation that the loser had to do this?

BrolyBlack
He expects people to take him serious with that siglaughing out loudlaughing out loud

cdtm
Originally posted by -Pr-
We're supposed to be, yes.

His journey from "guy on farm" to "Superman" has been documented by most of the big writers that have written Superman over the years.

Byrne, Loeb, Morrison, Johns etc have all written pieces that either tell us about or show us Clark Kent growing up and becoming Superman, and his development along the way.


And Brian Michael Bendis documented how Superman went from duel identity as a hero and reporter, to pediatric nurse.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Was that some kind of stipulation that the loser had to do this?

Yup..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t666365.html

BrolyBlack
Steamrolled

Stoic
Spiderman has great character.

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