Yamcha vs. Nail

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Mendax
Yamcha from Android saga
Nail from Frieza saga

Galan007
This recently came up in another thread, but #19/#20 originally confused Yamcha's energy signature with Goku's. And given that Gero had analyzed Goku's fight during the Saiyan saga(wherein he used KKx4), it means Yamcha's PL could have been as high as 32,000:
https://i.imgur.com/HtOCIfC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FoGyJd2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Yx5CXV2.jpg
*The fact that Yamcha was also stated to be "a good source of power" for the Androids also supports his PL being in that realm.


Flip side, Nail's PL was 42,000... So unless Yamcha was capable of boosting his PL by at least an additional 10k, he doesn't have a chance here.

NotAllThatEvil
2 things, gero also planned for gradual growth on goku's part jus not spikes. So yamcha scanned at >32,000. And humans/earthlings fighting style means that their power level makes significant jumps when fighting and using their special moves. Geri scanned yamcha's resting powerlevel.

Galan007
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
2 things, gero also planned for gradual growth on goku's part jus not spikes. So yamcha scanned at >32,000. Possibly, but there's no way to prove how much higher his PL may have been. Hence 32k has to be the benchmark -- anything else is just headcanon.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Geri scanned yamcha's resting powerlevel. Right. That's why I said that Yamcha would have to increase his PL by at least 10,000 to have a chance against Nail.

And for a human, a PL increase of 10k would have still been tremendous at that point.

NotAllThatEvil
That depends if the special move power boost is based on a percent of their total power level, no? When powered up in thecsaiyan saga, earth fighters sometimes doubled their power level

Galan007
I mean, Yamcha also knew the Androids were somewhere in the city, which is why he was actively trying to find them.

And given that he was aware of how powerful they were thanks to Trunks' warning, it wouldn't make sense for him to have been massively suppressing his ki, imo... But then again, dumber things have happened, I suppose. /shrug

NotAllThatEvil
Trunks did tell them not to show up unless they could at least help against a frieza level opponent and he still showed up. If he was only 32,000, he would have stayed home with chaotzu

Galan007
None of the Android saga humans were even remotely close to Freeza's PL... But at least Krillin and Tien actually have specialized attacks that could injure/kill a Freeza-level opponent if they connected.

Yamcha's only special ability is being cucked by Vegeta. thumb up

Mendax
Could Yamcha even suppress his chi? Is there a case of him ever doing so before the android arc?

Galan007
Hmm. Now that you mention it, I don't recall him doing so off hand.

I know some of the other humans could, but I'm not sure about Yamcha specifically.

NotAllThatEvil
Vegeta mentions all the earthlings were suppressing their power in the saiyan saga

Galan007
Vegeta said that about Krillin/Piccolo/Gohan, before Yamcha(and Tien) arrived on the field.

Mendax
Yep and when Yamcha arrived, he started fighting a Saibaman almost immediately without visibly powering up. Then he was killed.

So my point is - Yamcha might not have been suppressing his chi at all in the android arc, because I don't even know if he can.

Kento
That's a sad thought, that Yamcha can't do what everyone else he has trained with can. Cause, Yamcha was trained by everyone Krillin was, and King Kai.

Galan007
I would like to think Yamcha can suppress his ki down to the indistinguishable lower digits, but I just don't recall him ever doing so.

The other heroes didn't start doing that until the Namek saga, but that was more out of necessity to prevent them from being detected by scouters. Yamcha never really had the need to suppress his power prior to the Saiyan saga, and he wasn't resurrected until after the Namek saga.

Maybe he learned to do it while training with King Kai, or maybe he picked it up between the Namek and Android sagas. Dunno for sure.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Galan007
This recently came up in another thread, but #19/#20 originally confused Yamcha's energy signature with Goku's. And given that Gero had analyzed Goku's fight during the Saiyan saga(wherein he used KKx4), it means Yamcha's PL could have been as high as 32,000:
https://i.imgur.com/HtOCIfC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FoGyJd2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Yx5CXV2.jpg
*The fact that Yamcha was also stated to be "a good source of power" for the Androids also supports his PL being in that realm.


Flip side, Nail's PL was 42,000... So unless Yamcha was capable of boosting his PL by at least an additional 10k, he doesn't have a chance here. I mean, Krillin had to have been stronger then Nail by that point (was stated to be 100,000 in the Android Saga) and still got destroyed by Gero.

StiltmanFTW
Aside from his power level and regen, we don't know much about Nail and his techniques.

Galan007
Originally posted by Jmanghan
I mean, Krillin had to have been stronger then Nail by that point (was stated to be 100,000 in the Android Saga) and still got destroyed by Gero. Okay?

StiltmanFTW
You can't win against Super Jmango, Base Galan.

He's got like half a hundred fans on KMC and several discord channels devoted just to him.

Just give it up, already.

brohoes5
yamcha by android arc should be a little above 3 form frieza. so he stomp this fight

NotAllThatEvil2
Originally posted by brohoes5
yamcha by android arc should be a little above 3 form frieza. so he stomp this fight
Based on?

NemeBro
Well, Yamcha is a cuck, but Nail is a virgin eunuch. Hard call.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
This recently came up in another thread, but #19/#20 originally confused Yamcha's energy signature with Goku's. And given that Gero had analyzed Goku's fight during the Saiyan saga(wherein he used KKx4), it means Yamcha's PL could have been as high as 32,000:
https://i.imgur.com/HtOCIfC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FoGyJd2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Yx5CXV2.jpg
*The fact that Yamcha was also stated to be "a good source of power" for the Androids also supports his PL being in that realm.


Flip side, Nail's PL was 42,000... So unless Yamcha was capable of boosting his PL by at least an additional 10k, he doesn't have a chance here.

I don't know about all that. Your analysis is obviously accurate, but Gero also had a lot more info than that. I think 32,000/Saiyan saga Goku level is a HUGE lowball for Yamcha, at this point.

I mean, Gero wasn't stupid- he(and by extension, #19) had to have known Goku would be a lot stronger, by this point.

Even that is to assume that his info didn't take SSJ1 Goku/Frieza into account. I think it's probably more accurate to assume Yamcha was base Goku level, around the time he showed back up on Earth to fight Frieza, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, he DID include Frieza's DNA in Cell's biology, so I think that should put Yamcha probably closer to 1/50th of SSJ1 Goku, by that point(which is muuuch higher than 32,000). He was probably closer to 3 MILLION, than 32,000.

SSJGGogeta
FTR, I'm not saying Yamcha would BE actually on the level of base Goku, just that I think maybe he'd be roughly close to the level of base Goku when he showed back up on Earth after beating Frieza the first time.

I think assuming his power level at this point is less than the one million range would be a big lowball.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I don't know about all that. Your analysis is obviously accurate, but Gero also had a lot more info than that. I think 32,000/Saiyan saga Goku level is a HUGE lowball for Yamcha, at this point.

I mean, Gero wasn't stupid- he(and by extension, #19) had to have known Goku would be a lot stronger, by this point.

Even that is to assume that his info didn't take SSJ1 Goku/Frieza into account. I think it's probably more accurate to assume Yamcha was base Goku level, around the time he showed back up on Earth to fight Frieza, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, he DID include Frieza's DNA in Cell's biology, so I think that should put Yamcha probably closer to 1/50th of SSJ1 Goku, by that point(which is muuuch higher than 32,000). He was probably closer to 3 MILLION, than 32,000. Sure, but Gero still didn't have any info on Goku's power after the Saiyan saga, which was explicitly noted in the arc itself. Therefore the last recorded PL he would've had for Goku would have been when he peaked at 32k. Granted Gero may have accounted for *some* kind of power growth for Goku between sagas, but we don't know to what degree.

Nah, none of the humans would have even approached base Goku back then, tbh. Even Krillin(the strongest earthling, per numerous sources) "only" had a PL of 75k by the end of the Namek saga -- and that was after his power had been unlocked by Guru. Frankly, I think even first form Freeza would have still effortlessly stomped Krillin by the Android saga... And Yamcha was logically tiers below Krillin by virtue of his latent power never being unlocked.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Galan007
Sure, but Gero still didn't have any info on Goku's power after the Saiyan saga, which was explicitly noted in the arc itself. Therefore the last recorded PL he would've had for Goku would have been when he peaked at 32k. Granted Gero may have accounted for *some* kind of power growth for Goku between sagas, but we don't know to what degree.
Honestly, if Gero based his expectations only on Goku's rate of growth during the Saiyan saga, that would already be pretty close to the truth.

Galan007
Oh yeah, it's fully possible that Gero may have accounted for Goku attaining huge gains that vastly surpassed where he was at during the Saiyan saga. Just saying that we don't know for sure.

But on that note, Yamcha's PL during the Saiyan saga was 1,480. So even if he 'only' boosted his PL to the point where it was on par with Saiyan saga peak Goku, that would still be a ~22x increase in power... Which is absolutely absurd for a human. Granted he trained under King Kai for a bit, but he never learned the more exotic abilities(like KaioKen) or anything like that.

NotAllThatEvil2

Galan007
It really just depends on Gero's estimations, which we do not know.

Gero said that Yamcha's power exceeded all known human parameters, so he never even planned on a human amassing the level of power that Yamcha(and the others) had, based on his analysis of their powers during the Saiyan saga. So likewise, he may have severely underestimated the type of growth the Saiyans could make in that timespan as well(even without the SS multipliers and off-world training.) I don't think Gero knew about Saiyan zenkais either.

IOW, Gero certainly knew that Goku's PL peaked at 32k during the Saiyan saga, but he may not have planned on him becoming much more powerful than that -- which would keep Yamcha around that mark as well. OR he may have planned on him becoming several times more powerful, like you're saying. I suppose both options are possible, because again, we simply don't know the type of growth that Gero accounted for.

Marikina
Gero didn't anticipate Goku getting that much stronger after the Saiyan arc.

NotAllThatEvil2
And yet still made his robots super saiyan +

Blakemore
Are you guys forgetting that Yamcha fought Recoome on King Kai's planet and won?

Recoome is stronger than Nail.

Marikina
Originally posted by Blakemore
Are you guys forgetting that Yamcha fought Recoome on King Kai's planet and won?

Recoome is stronger than Nail.

Filler. And I don't think Recoom's stronger than Nail, at most he's as strong as him.

Ridley_Prime
Looking up the numbers, Recoome was 71000, while Nail was 42000.

If we include filler then Yamcha easily wins, yeah, but without filler it is much more subjective.

Marikina
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Looking up the numbers, Recoome was 71000, while Nail was 42000.

If we include filler then Yamcha easily wins, yeah, but without filler it is much more subjective.

The 71k figure isn't official afaik, in the story Ginyu said that Goku didn't need to be anything more than 60k to clap the rest of the Ginyu force. Considering that Goku literally one shot Recoome and Recoome didn't completely tank Vegeta (who was 30k) I'd say Recoome was closer to Nail's 42k.

Galan007
Yeah, Vegeta's PL against Recoome was somewhere between 24k-30k, yet he was still able to deliver some minimal damage to Recoome initially. If Recoome actually had more than 2x the power of Vegeta, all of his attacks would have been casually no-sold(as we saw time and time again in DBZ.) Additionally, this was at a time where relatively small differences in PL still equated to massively one-sided stomps -- look at Vegeta(PL=24k) vs. Dodoria(PL=22k) for example.

Point being, Recoome could've had a PL of like 35k and still dominated Vegeta just as easily. I have my doubts that he was stronger than Nail.

Blakemore
https://dbpl.fandom.com/wiki/Power_levels_by_saga#Namek_Saga

This source states Recoome was 45,000.

But if you were to dismiss that as filler, then idk. Yamcha sucks, anyway.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Sure, but Gero still didn't have any info on Goku's power after the Saiyan saga, which was explicitly noted in the arc itself. Therefore the last recorded PL he would've had for Goku would have been when he peaked at 32k. Granted Gero may have accounted for *some* kind of power growth for Goku between sagas, but we don't know to what degree.

Nah, none of the humans would have even approached base Goku back then, tbh. Even Krillin(the strongest earthling, per numerous sources) "only" had a PL of 75k by the end of the Namek saga -- and that was after his power had been unlocked by Guru. Frankly, I think even first form Freeza would have still effortlessly stomped Krillin by the Android saga... And Yamcha was logically tiers below Krillin by virtue of his latent power never being unlocked.

But wait, this Gero had already created Cell- with Frieza's cells. Which he only could've obtained while Frieza was on Earth. Meaning he HAD to have seen Trunks and Goku go SSJ, and have at least something of a handle on their powers.

Also, you're misunderstanding what point I'm talking about- it was like 3 years between the android attack, and Trunks killing Frieza. I'm saying the way I interpreted Gero, was that he knew how strong Goku was right when he returned to Earth, as per him using Frieza's DNA in Cell's construction. Goku obviously got a lot stronger in the 3 years, but I took it as "Yamcha was mistaken for Goku, because he was around Goku's power level from when he had returned to Earth."

Because Gero DID say that even #19 alone could handle Goku as a SSJ. And that fortunately for them, Goku at SSJ DID fall within their calculations.

Meaning that for them to have mistaken Yamcha for Goku, he would've had to be within at least the realm of base Goku, by the time he came back from Namek.

Marikina
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
But wait, this Gero had already created Cell- with Frieza's cells. Which he only could've obtained while Frieza was on Earth. Meaning he HAD to have seen Trunks and Goku go SSJ, and have at least something of a handle on their powers.

Also, you're misunderstanding what point I'm talking about- it was like 3 years between the android attack, and Trunks killing Frieza. I'm saying the way I interpreted Gero, was that he knew how strong Goku was right when he returned to Earth, as per him using Frieza's DNA in Cell's construction. Goku obviously got a lot stronger in the 3 years, but I took it as "Yamcha was mistaken for Goku, because he was around Goku's power level from when he had returned to Earth."

Because Gero DID say that even #19 alone could handle Goku as a SSJ. And that fortunately for them, Goku at SSJ DID fall within their calculations.

Meaning that for them to have mistaken Yamcha for Goku, he would've had to be within at least the realm of base Goku, by the time he came back from Namek.

But Gero was completely unaware of Super Saiyan which meant he probably didn't have access to the same data that the spy robots for the Cell program did. And he did say that Goku's power exceeded their calculations, he just built himself and 19 so unreasonably high that Goku's power ended up falling within those parameters anyway.

Galan007
Goku also didn't get back to earth until well after Freeza had been killed by Trunks -- iirc, there was like a 3 hour gap between Freeza's death and Goku's arrival.

So presumably Gero's bots had already harvested Freeza's genetic material and left the field before Goku came back and displayed his new power. Any way you slice it, Gero had absolutely no clue what Goku was capable of at the time.

Blakemore
Originally posted by Galan007
Goku also didn't get back to earth until well after Freeza had been killed by Trunks -- iirc, there was like a 3 hour gap between Freeza's death and Goku's arrival.

So presumably Gero's bots had already harvested Freeza's genetic material and left the field before Goku came back and displayed his new power. Any way you slice it, Gero had absolutely no clue what Goku was capable of at the time. Trunks knew where Goku was going to land. Trunks told Goku the androids would arrive in 3 years. When Gero saw super saijan he said "seriously what the **** is Namek!"

I guess Gero had no idea what super saijan was despite Cell knowing what it was.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Goku also didn't get back to earth until well after Freeza had been killed by Trunks -- iirc, there was like a 3 hour gap between Freeza's death and Goku's arrival.

So presumably Gero's bots had already harvested Freeza's genetic material and left the field before Goku came back and displayed his new power. Any way you slice it, Gero had absolutely no clue what Goku was capable of at the time.

So after re-reading it, yes he was unaware of the Super Saiyan. He DID however say that Goku's power in SSJ1 was "within our calculations", and that even 19 could beat him 1 v 1. So that means he had prepared for Goku to be within that range of power.

Any way you slice it, he had a good idea of how strong Goku would be, and he still mistook Yamcha for him. Meaning Yamcha was probably around Goku's level, in base form at that point. Probably still a good bit weaker, sure, but not enough to say he was only Nail/Recoome level.

SSJGGogeta
Not sure why I used the same verbiage as you, of "any way you slice it", lol. But it fits.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So after re-reading it, yes he was unaware of the Super Saiyan. He DID however say that Goku's power in SSJ1 was "within our calculations", and that even 19 could beat him 1 v 1. So that means he had prepared for Goku to be within that range of power. That isn't accurate. When Goku powered up to SS, Gero explicitly stated that his power "far surpasses the calculated limits":
https://ibb.co/gPJKXcC

Gero then goes on to state that he and #19 could still defeat Goku (because Gero had overbuilt the shit out of all the Androids):
https://ibb.co/P1CNsyD

But also keep in mind that Goku had the heart disease at this time, and as such, his power was massively weakened -- as noted by Piccolo, it was "nothing"(in comparison to what it was when Goku was healthy, obviously):
https://ibb.co/xL2PRqL
...Yet it still vastly exceeded anything that Gero accounted for. But that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Any way you slice it, he had a good idea of how strong Goku would be, and he still mistook Yamcha for him. Meaning Yamcha was probably around Goku's level, in base form at that point. Probably still a good bit weaker, sure, but not enough to say he was only Nail/Recoome level. As I mentioned on the last page, Gero's sensors simply picked up a level of power that he deemed was beyond any known human parameters that he had accounted for:
https://ibb.co/jgn8cPj
Thus he wrongly assumed that it must be Goku by default.

And remember, the last time Gero's bots had seen any of the Z Fighters in action was during the Saiyan saga -- when the strongest earthling was Tien, with a PL of 1,830, and the strongest overall fighter was Goku, with a PL of 32k. So even assuming Yamcha's PL had "just" increased to 32k by the Android saga, that would still equate to an increase of around 1,700%... Which, again, is still an astronomical boost in power for a human. Especially since Yamcha's potential was never unlocked(like Krillin's was), and he spent those 3 years basically training by himself.

tl;dr
I personally don't think that Gero really anticipated Goku(and especially the humans) becoming much more powerful between the Saiyan and Android sagas... And from my perspective, I certainly don't think that even Krillin(the strongest earthling) remotely approached the base Saiyans in power back then... Never mind Yamcha. But again, the argument all hinges on Gero's power calculations/estimations, which we simply do not know. As mentioned, the notion that Yamcha's PL could have far exceeded 32k is possible... I just disagree. /shrug

NotAllThatEvil2

NotAllThatEvil2
Or at the very least, expected him to get to that level to make the training worth it for the others

Galan007
I think you're reading too far into it, tbh. Piccolo, Krillin, and Yamcha are Goku's friends, so he did the friendly/polite thing and extended an offer for them to train with he and Gohan. Piccolo agreed, while Krillin and Yamcha refused(Yamcha explicitly refused because he didn't think he could keep up):
https://ibb.co/Y8yFz4s

But at least Krillin(who was already the strongest human by a large margin) went to train with Roshi, so it's reasonable to assume that his power would have increased substantially under the tutelage of someone like that.

Yamcha, on the other hand, evidently just did his own thing for those 3 years... So it's even harder for me to believe he would've gained some gargantuan boost in power like that by training solo. He's not Vegeta. /shrug

DeadpoolXXX
ive never been sure why so many people believe that the humans ever got their powers up to the millions range in dbz??

krillin and tien are the strongest humans by far, but i'd honestly be surprised if either of their powers had even surpassed 2nd form frieza by the buu arc.

NotAllThatEvil2
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
ive never been sure why so many people believe that the humans ever got their powers up to the millions range in dbz??

krillin and tien are the strongest humans by far, but i'd honestly be surprised if either of their powers had even surpassed 2nd form frieza by the buu arc.
Filler is a big art of it. Yamcha destroys recoome and olibu, the latter being a pier of super saiyan goku and piccon. Krillin fought off cell in an airport. In canon, tien stalls stage 2 cell and blocks a blast from buu.

Galan007
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
ive never been sure why so many people believe that the humans ever got their powers up to the millions range in dbz??

krillin and tien are the strongest humans by far, but i'd honestly be surprised if either of their powers had even surpassed 2nd form frieza by the buu arc. If you just look at the manga at its associated canon material, then yeah, it's hard to believe the humans' PLs ever reached the millions-tier in DBZ. You *might* be able to make a case for Krillin(and to a lesser extent Tien), but even that's a bit ass-pulley tbh.

Most of the shit you see online about the humans having PLs that high are based on filler scenes, or headcanon, or both.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil2
In canon, tien stalls stage 2 cell and blocks a blast from buu. Shows you how stupidly haxx that Kikoho is.

Tien starts off absolutely awestruck...damn near shitting his pants...at the power of a massively weakened/heart-disease-stricken SS Goku. Then shortly afterward in the same arc, he proceeds to momentarily push down/stall a being who was several times more powerful than Goku... cuz Kikoho. Good thing the villains don't know that technique or the Z Fighters would have been f*cked a long time ago, lol.

As for Tien deflecting a blast from Bootenks: it was cool and all, but way too overhyped, imo. The blast Bootenks fired(the one Tien deflected) was just meant to kill Satan and Dende, so it likely wasn't very powerful at all.

Blakemore
The kikokoh is a haxx0rz move. It doesn't actually hurt the opponent, it's just a stun move.

Put it this way. Yamcha is the stupid one, Krillen is the funny one, and Tien is the one with weird powers.

NotAllThatEvil2
I thought yamcha was the pretty one

Blakemore
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil2
I thought yamcha was the pretty one That makes more sense.

Pretty one, stupid one, one with weird powers.

Estacado
Yamcha blows up in the begining of the fight cause he is Yamcha...

Mendax
Originally posted by Galan007
If you just look at the manga at its associated canon material, then yeah, it's hard to believe the humans' PLs ever reached the millions-tier in DBZ. You *might* be able to make a case for Krillin(and to a lesser extent Tien), but even that's a bit ass-pulley tbh.

Most of the shit you see online about the humans having PLs that high are based on filler scenes, or headcanon, or both. How could you even make a case for Krillin and Tien though? Krillins PL was only 13000 after Guru unlocked his power on Namek, and we have no idea where Tien was at (aside from being nothing to a weakened SSJ)

Blakemore
Originally posted by Estacado
Yamcha blows up in the begining of the fight cause he is Yamcha... Yamcha against the Saiyans: Killed by Saibaman in the first fight.

Yamcha against the Androids: Lost to Gero and takes Goku home before a fight even finishes.

Yamcha against Buu: Turned into Chocolate like the other losers.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mendax
How could you even make a case for Krillin and Tien though? Krillins PL was only 13000 after Guru unlocked his power on Namek, and we have no idea where Tien was at (aside from being nothing to a weakened SSJ) Yes, Krillin's PL was 13k after Guru unlocked him. Then a little later in the arc, without even powering up, Krillin contended just fine against Ginku(Ginyu in Goku's body), who had a PL of 23k -- and Vegeta stated that Krillin was holding back there, because he didn't want to hurt his friend(implying that his PL was already well above 23k at the time.) Then a little later in the arc, Vegeta stated that Krillin's power had been continuously rising the entire time, to the point where he could actually help beat 1st form Freeza. Then V-Jump credits Krillin with a PL of 75k "and still rising" by the end of the arc.

So if you take the 75k figured at face value(and I do, given the evidence at hand), then Krillin would 'only' have to increase his PL by ~13x to put him in the million-tier. That's obviously one hell of a jump, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility, imo, given that his potential was already unlocked and he spent years training with Roshi.


Tien is obviously much harder to gauge, because the last recorded PL we have for him was during the Saiyan saga. The only real 'proof' I have is his Kikoho showing against Semi-Perfect Cell -- I feel like he'd have to be in the million-tier to even have a shot at pulling something like that off, but I obviously can't say for sure. It's way more of an asspull, because you could just as easily chalk it up to PIS. /shrug

Inedian
I really forgot about Yamcha. What was his peak power? Blowing a planet, that is easy for Yamcha. What is his peak power?

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
That isn't accurate. When Goku powered up to SS, Gero explicitly stated that his power "far surpasses the calculated limits":
https://ibb.co/gPJKXcC

Gero then goes on to state that he and #19 could still defeat Goku (because Gero had overbuilt the shit out of all the Androids):
https://ibb.co/P1CNsyD

But also keep in mind that Goku had the heart disease at this time, and as such, his power was massively weakened -- as noted by Piccolo, it was "nothing"(in comparison to what it was when Goku was healthy, obviously):
https://ibb.co/xL2PRqL
...Yet it still vastly exceeded anything that Gero accounted for. But that's neither here nor there.

As I mentioned on the last page, Gero's sensors simply picked up a level of power that he deemed was beyond any known human parameters that he had accounted for:
https://ibb.co/jgn8cPj
Thus he wrongly assumed that it must be Goku by default.

And remember, the last time Gero's bots had seen any of the Z Fighters in action was during the Saiyan saga -- when the strongest earthling was Tien, with a PL of 1,830, and the strongest overall fighter was Goku, with a PL of 32k. So even assuming Yamcha's PL had "just" increased to 32k by the Android saga, that would still equate to an increase of around 1,700%... Which, again, is still an astronomical boost in power for a human. Especially since Yamcha's potential was never unlocked(like Krillin's was), and he spent those 3 years basically training by himself.

tl;dr
I personally don't think that Gero really anticipated Goku(and especially the humans) becoming much more powerful between the Saiyan and Android sagas... And from my perspective, I certainly don't think that even Krillin(the strongest earthling) remotely approached the base Saiyans in power back then... Never mind Yamcha. But again, the argument all hinges on Gero's power calculations/estimations, which we simply do not know. As mentioned, the notion that Yamcha's PL could have far exceeded 32k is possible... I just disagree. /shrug

Hm, very interesting- I think I was misremembering what Gero had said, but I can see where you're coming from. I also do think you're misunderstanding me though, I'm not saying Yamcha was like on the level of Goku after those three years, I just think it's not much of a stretch to say that after those 3 years, he was at least close to the level of base Goku when he showed back up, after those 3 years.

I definitely agree with you, that his power COULD be as low as the 30-40k range, but it could ALSO be as high as the range of a million or more. It's a pretty big range for what it could be, so I just see it as a lowball to put it any lower than at least a few hundred thousand, but I definitely see your point.

I guess it's really just a matter of perspective, at that point.

SSJGGogeta
Originally posted by Galan007
Tien is obviously much harder to gauge, because the last recorded PL we have for him was during the Saiyan saga. The only real 'proof' I have is his Kikoho showing against Semi-Perfect Cell -- I feel like he'd have to be in the million-tier to even have a shot at pulling something like that off, but I obviously can't say for sure. It's way more of an asspull, because you could just as easily chalk it up to PIS. /shrug

Wasn't it stated back in Dragon Ball or something that Kikoho was like a 10x boost to your base power? I swear I remember something like that, but I'm not 100% sure. Either way, that would still mean Tien would have to be roughly at least 1/10th of Semi perfect Cell's power, which realistically would put him above base Vegeta- post ROSAT.

Which I agree, is kinda bs. laughing

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Inedian
I really forgot about Yamcha. What was his peak power? Blowing a planet, that is easy for Yamcha. What is his peak power?

In the filler, he has owned Olibu & Gorilla.

That's his greatest feat to date, afaik. That and briefly occupying Kid Buu with Krillin's help...

NotAllThatEvil2

Inedian
Thanks to both of you... well him being top 3 earthlings tells enough.

Galan007
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Wasn't it stated back in Dragon Ball or something that Kikoho was like a 10x boost to your base power? I swear I remember something like that, but I'm not 100% sure. Either way, that would still mean Tien would have to be roughly at least 1/10th of Semi perfect Cell's power, which realistically would put him above base Vegeta- post ROSAT.

Which I agree, is kinda bs. laughing Not sure... I'd have to go back and look. All I remember off hand is it being stated that the Kikoho vastly exceeded the Kamehameha in term of output, which makes sense given that the user is also pouring their own life force into the attack.

StiltmanFTW
When was that said, NotAllThatEvil2?

I thought Kamesennin surpassed Yamcha? At least one version of RoF events seemed to allude to it.

NotAllThatEvil2
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
When was that said, NotAllThatEvil2?

I thought Kamesennin surpassed Yamcha? At least one version of RoF events seemed to allude to it.
In the morro arc when he fights the three little alien dudes before moving on to fight the lizard man with tien.

Edit: found the scan https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-496587c6f3deaea071b6c6b81141eb72-lq


Biggest complaint of that arc was needing goku to save them from the lizard man

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil2
In the morro arc when he fights the three little alien dudes before moving on to fight the lizard man with tien.

Edit: found the scan https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-496587c6f3deaea071b6c6b81141eb72-lq

Thank you. Great moment, love this.

100% accurate statement, too... enough of this Roshi bs.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil2
Biggest complaint of that arc was needing goku to save them from the lizard man

Oh, well. Can't have everything, it's always Goku's Time to shine in db... laughing out loud

NotAllThatEvil2

StiltmanFTW
mmm

Perhaps you're right.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by Galan007
Okay? Idk wtf I was talking about, I think I was trying to say that if Yamcha was relative to Krillin then he should win against Nail.

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