Thor vs. Aquaman in the arm-wrestling competition.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's actually from a future reality and non canon.

Make makes you think it was from future?

While it was told in a very casual manner and separated from the main arc, I don't think it's any less canon than... Galactus owning IG Thanos recently... shifty

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Think he jumped into Iron Man (classic Mark 1 armour) lol.

Come on, it's Stilt.

Anyway, all feats count. Momoaman lifts an eyebrow, goes 'Waahhhooooo!!!' and wins.

My man!!!!!

Model I Mark III, actually.

https://i.ibb.co/hH8hKYW/gold.jpg

DarkSaint85

All he added was gold plating and a radio lmao.

TONY STARK BUILT IT FROM SCRAPS!!!!! IN A CAVE!!!!!!

StiltmanFTW

And still matched Thor's godly strength thumb up

abhilegend

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Make makes you think it was from future?

While it was told in a very casual manner and separated from the main arc, I don't think it's any less canon than... Galactus owning IG Thanos recently... shifty

Model I Mark III, actually.

https://i.ibb.co/hH8hKYW/gold.jpg
It was outright stated to occur in future.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qgjGoAIYJO0/VnqDqwtxaCI/AAAAAAAAbGk/hD7Nnegoapg/s1600-Ic42/RCO051.jpg

Official index of marvel comics states that all Thor and Hercules did was shatter a plateau.

https://i.imgur.com/ResabgC.jpg

carver9

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was outright stated to occur in future.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qgjGoAIYJO0/VnqDqwtxaCI/AAAAAAAAbGk/hD7Nnegoapg/s1600-Ic42/RCO051.jpg

Official index of marvel comics states that all Thor and Hercules did was shatter a plateau.

https://i.imgur.com/ResabgC.jpg

Not what it is saying.

DarkSaint85

It's exactly what it says. Good spot

StiltmanFTW

A day that will come. Ages and ages hence.

Yeah.

DarkSaint85

Also the planet doesn't seem to have been destroyed 😂

StiltmanFTW

Even if one wanted to assume it's a canon future event...

... we know nothing about Thor's and Herc's power levels at the time (they change a lot) and we're given little info about the planet.

StiltmanFTW

Thanks, abhi.

And while Marvel index is only a supplementary source, it 100% agrees with what was stated in the comic itself.

abhilegend

Originally posted by carver9
Not what it is saying.
laughing out loud

abhilegend

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also the planet doesn't seem to have been destroyed 😂

It was an alien planet.

DarkSaint85

Maybe it was hollow.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Maybe it was hollow.

You're guessing and joking.

But.

We know it was deserted.

And... "battle-scarred".

What author meant by that?

He could have meant anything.

Including the planet already being busted up and being fragile from, let's say, numerous spaceships attacks.

Which caused the planet to be... well... DESERTED, as the comic says.

Hey, just saying.

DarkSaint85

https://media.tenor.com/images/2bf3f4a74520aa19839badf723eb76a3/tenor.gif

CosmicComet

Thor wins but his own forearm bursts as he slams aquaman's down.

Philosophía

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
A day that will come. Ages and ages hence. When Thor will actually have a canon, non-debunked, non-amped feat.

Yeah. Fixed.

celeyhyga17

Gud feat.

DarkSaint85

In the far future ,as the scan states.

StiltmanFTW

Yes.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Even if one wanted to assume it's a canon future event...

... we know nothing about Thor's and Herc's power levels at the time (they change a lot) and we're given little info about the planet.

Ravaged planet of uknown size.

Narrators breaking the fourth wall and not taking it seriously.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In the far future ,as the scan states.
technically ages ages hence it says, but yeah 616 Thor & Herc and not alts.

Also no proof if they are different or changed in some way. No indication in their depiction and all. So i dont think we should make all kinds of assumptions. Pretty sure the writer would have let the reader know.

It was literally a sandbox location just to showcase their strength, and without the ramifications of damaging earth or any other inhabited planet... A writer's playground.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
technically ages ages hence it says, but yeah 616 Thor & Herc and not alts.

Also no proof if they are different or changed in some way. No indication in their depiction and all. So i dont think we should make all kinds of assumptions. Pretty sure the writer would have let the reader know.

It was literally a sandbox location just to showcase their strength, and without the ramifications of damaging earth or any other inhabited planet... A writer's playground.

So yeah,in the farfuture. So future versions aren't used here, am sure we can ask Stilt for clarification.

celeyhyga17

No we dont use alts

DarkSaint85

Ah.

So ina thread with Superman,Golden Superman is allowed? Nice.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ah.

So ina thread with Superman,Golden Superman is allowed? Nice.
Clarify

DarkSaint85

Yes Stilt, please clarify.

Are you allowing future versions? Thanks.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes Stilt, please clarify.

Are you allowing future versions? Thanks.
?

Wut did u mean by this?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ah.

So ina thread with Superman,Golden Superman is allowed? Nice.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes Stilt, please clarify.

Are you allowing future versions? Thanks.

No future versions or alternate Earths.

Aquaman has less strength feats than Thor, that's why I'm giving him the access to all of his feats from Pre-Crisis to current era, but he still needs to stick to his mainstream version, no Elsewords or any dubious stuff.

Thor's feat - even if it indeed is 616 - is VERY dubious.

Marvel introduced plenty of future Thor versions to us... and Marvel 2099 is supposed to be the one real future...

And Thor arm-wrestled Hercules before and it was nothing like this.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No future versions or alternate Earths.

Thor's feat - even if it indeed is 616 - is VERY dubious.

Marvel introduced plenty of future Thor versions to us... and Marvel 2099 is supposed to be the one real future...

And Thor arm-wrestled Hercules before and it was nothing like this.
Future as in alternate. This was designated as 616.

This was a higher end feat. Other times they had arm wrestled has no bearing on this one. Faulty reasoning...

The depiction was pretty straight forward. No overt change in character or extra information given that would make them from different universes.

The only hang up "ages hence" and then coupled with other poetic descriptions, obviously to differentiate this planet from earth.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No future versions or alternate Earths.

Aquaman has less strength feats than Thor, that's why I'm giving him the access to all of his feats from Pre-Crisis to current era, but he still needs to stick to his mainstream version, no Elsewords or any dubious stuff.

Thor's feat - even if it indeed is 616 - is VERY dubious.

Marvel introduced plenty of future Thor versions to us... and Marvel 2099 is supposed to be the one real future...

And Thor arm-wrestled Hercules before and it was nothing like this.

Thanks, Stilt.

Philosophía

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No future versions or alternate Earths. lol at having to specify this.

Anyhow, Aquaman makes it competitive for a while, same as with Wonder Woman, but he gets edged out.

abhilegend

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Future as in alternate. This was designated as 616.

This was a higher end feat. Other times they had arm wrestled has no bearing on this one. Faulty reasoning...

The depiction was pretty straight forward. No overt change in character or extra information given that would make them from different universes.

The only hang up "ages hence" and then coupled with other poetic descriptions, obviously to differentiate this planet from earth.
laughing out loud

Nope

StiltmanFTW

Wolverine worked for Landau, Luckman, and Lake company.

They had some pretty awesome interdimensional teleportation tech.

Which means we could theorize that every crossover ever involving Wolverine was canon.

See, celey? Two can play this game.

You believe it's 616, fine. But we know that Thor and Herc fluctuate in power a lot (even when mere decades in real time pass, let alone "ages and ages" in comics) and we have no idea how big the planet was, other than it being in a terrible state and deserted.

And the other times we saw Thor arm-wrestling, it had no such repercussions.

DarkSaint85

Well it's just that....it's Thor. And it's Aquaman.

Jokes aside, Thor fans should have zero problems finding clear cut feats to support their stance, without needing to waste time on arguments about 'ages and ages' and 'battle scarred planets'.

If it was a punching power thread, Hulk fans would have zero problems.

If it was a running thread, Flash fans have zero problems.

So yeah, let's ignore the Thor/Herc scan and just put another from his nearly 60 years of comics.....

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine worked for Landau, Luckman, and Lake company.

They had some pretty awesome interdimensional teleportation tech.

Which means we could theorize that every crossover ever involving Wolverine was canon.

See, celey? Two can play this game.

You believe it's 616, fine. But we know that Thor and Herc fluctuate in power a lot (even when mere decades in real time pass, let alone "ages and ages" in comics) and we have no idea how big the planet was, other than it being in a terrible state and deserted.

And the other times we saw Thor arm-wrestling, it had no such repercussions.
You are coming up with some silly scenarios that arent even needed... As if we dont know depictions of regular Thor/Herc
Lol ure making things more complicated than they should be. I mean come on really?
It was designated 616 as per official handbook. We dont use alternate unis. They werent alternate unis. U say we dont use futures. But this wasnt divergent. The burden of proof is on u to show they werent. Saying dubious is not enuff.
Your only hang up is on "ages ages hence" along with other poetic descriptions (battle scarred, deserted planet, etc.).
And as i said before, the setting was to differentiate this planet from earth because the writer is going to wreck this planet for laughs... Literally.
Now you go off into other silly tangents like size of planet. Bro.... Thats like trollerskates level. U smarter than that.
And then u talk of previous arm wrestling matches that have no bearing on this story. Thats faulty reasoning 101. Do u know how easily that can be turned around on you?

abhilegend

It's from "ages and ages hence". Its in future, it's an alternate reality. End of discussion.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
You are coming up with some silly scenarios that arent even needed... As if we dont know depictions of regular Thor/Herc
Lol ure making things more complicated than they should be. I mean come on really?
It was designated 616 as per official handbook. We dont use alternate unis. They werent alternate unis. U say we dont use futures. But this wasnt divergent. The burden of proof is on u to show they werent. Saying dubious is not enuff.
Your only hang up is on "ages ages hence" along with other poetic descriptions (battle scarred, deserted planet, etc.).
And as i said before, the setting was to differentiate this planet from earth because the writer is going to wreck this planet for laughs... Literally.
Now you go off into other silly tangents like size of planet. Bro.... Thats like trollerskates level. U smarter than that.
And then u talk of previous arm wrestling matches that have no bearing on this story. Thats faulty reasoning 101. Do u know how easily that can be turned around on you?

OP thread, OP stips. If you don't like it, make your own with your own stips.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP thread, OP stips. If you don't like it, make your own with your own stips.
What stips, futures?

His future stip is based on alt uni futures..... Which is based on no alt unis as per kmc thread standards. Just pointing out that this was not alt unis.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
What stips, futures?

His future stip is based on alt uni futures..... Which is based on no alt unis as per kmc thread standards. Just pointing out that this was not alt unis.

Well he clarifies on this page that he doesn't want future versions OR alt. Earths *shrug* I don't like it any more than you do but hey, Stilt does as Stilt pleases.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well he clarifies on this page that he doesn't want future versions OR alt. Earths *shrug* I don't like it any more than you do but hey, Stilt does as Stilt pleases.
Yes. If he doesnt want to use this thats fine.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Yes. If he doesnt want to use this thats fine.

And his thread means he decides.

Just like forum rules say only canon sources - but I am free to make a thread with alt. Universe characters (KC Superman, Worthy Surfer, Maestro etc) . My thread, my stips,

Stilts thread, Stilts stips. Besides, like I said, despite all the jokes, Thor should still have plenty of feats in his 60 year history to use.

DarkSaint85

Mjolnir is a separate character doe.

Also,it's Stilt. Hardly the biggest Superman supporter, you know. I know you've been away for a bit ,but you must remember Stilt isn't a Supes boy.....

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mjolnir is a separate character doe.

Also,it's Stilt. Hardly the biggest Superman supporter, you know. I know you've been away for a bit ,but you must remember Stilt isn't a Supes boy..... See this is exactly what I mean. You've decided any feat featuring Mljonir can't count because it is it's own character. Writer's intent to show Thor's power doesn't matter. You've taken your meta knowledge of the character and constructed an argument to undermine any feats that allow you to apply that meta knowledge ignoring context and writer's intent. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Philosophía

Well now, let's not use hyperbole.

Newjak

We get it Philo you don't think I'm smart :yawn:

You got anything else to add because in all honesty I just find this attack on me pathetic.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Newjak
See this is exactly what I mean. You've decided any feat featuring Mljonir can't count because it is it's own character. Writer's intent to show Thor's power doesn't matter. You've taken your meta knowledge of the character and constructed an argument to undermine any feats that allow you to apply that meta knowledge ignoring context and writer's intent. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Once again though the same logic could be used for Superman and his strength feats really just being flying feats.

Also just because Stilt isn't "the biggest Superman supporter" doesn't mean he isn't applying the same one-sided logic to other characters.

Hence the 'doe' ,being semi tongue in cheek.

But yeah, meta knowledge or not, it IS a separate character. Robin doesn't get feats from Batman, Laura X-23 doesn't get Logan's feats, Kilowog doesn't get Kyle's feats, Bart doesn't get Wally's feats.

And sure, if you want we can switch all of Superman's strength into flying. I am the one on this forum who asked if Wally could replicate Superman's feats, as his 'engine thrust' , as it were ,was equal to Superman's (as they both hit the same-ish top speeds). Again, I know you've not been around for a while, but yeah, I've floated that view before.

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hence the 'doe' ,being semi tongue in cheek.

But yeah, meta knowledge or not, it IS a separate character. Robin doesn't get feats from Batman, Laura X-23 doesn't get Logan's feats, Kilowog doesn't get Kyle's feats, Bart doesn't get Wally's feats.

And sure, if you want we can switch all of Superman's strength into flying. I am the one on this forum who asked if Wally could replicate Superman's feats, as his 'engine thrust' , as it were ,was equal to Superman's (as they both hit the same-ish top speeds). Again, I know you've not been around for a while, but yeah, I've floated that view before. Except we literally have feats where it was the writer's intent to show Thor's strength by hitting something with his hammer.

You're right we wouldn't switch out Robin's feats with Batman's but if Robin picked up Batman and knocked out a badguy with Bruce's body we wouldn't be saying it was a feat for Batman lol.

Also the way Mjolnir gets written is changed from time to time.

I think the point is that this type of nitpicking generally never gets applied evenly on these forums. Whether that is the case with you or not is irrelevant to the overall point being made. You very well could be the exception to the rule.

Based on what I've seen here I'm not certain of that though.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Newjak
Except we literally have feats where it was the writer's intent to show Thor's strength by hitting something with his hammer.

You're right we wouldn't switch out Robin's feats with Batman's but if Robin picked up Batman and knocked out a badguy with Bruce's body we wouldn't be saying it was a feat for Batman lol.

Also the way Mjolnir gets written is changed from time to time.

I think the point is that this type of nitpicking generally never gets applied evenly on these forums. Whether that is the case with you or not is irrelevant to the overall point being made. You very well could be the exception to the rule.

Based on what I've seen here I'm not certain of that though.

*Shrug* fair enough.

But with regards to the analogy with Robin/Batman, Batman is a sentient character with a mind of his own. And can fight in different ways for different people, depending on how much he likes them. Mjolnir AS WE KNOW IT NOW is sentient and can play favourites.

But yeah. If you aren't convinced, it is what it is. You haven't seen the whole 'hollow planet' arguments we had which lasted months, or World Forger, or dynamic strength (which goes on to this day). Where every single word and panel and piece of art was scrutinized.

But then, like I said, you weren't around.

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*Shrug* fair enough.

But with regards to the analogy with Robin/Batman, Batman is a sentient character with a mind of his own. And can fight in different ways for different people, depending on how much he likes them. Mjolnir AS WE KNOW IT NOW is sentient and can play favourites.

But yeah. If you aren't convinced, it is what it is. You haven't seen the whole 'hollow planet' arguments we had which lasted months, or World Forger, or dynamic strength (which goes on to this day). Where every single word and panel and piece of art was scrutinized.

But then, like I said, you weren't around. To be fair those types of arguments existed well before I left. They were as silly then as I see them now. This includes some of the arguments you mentioned.

This forum is nothing if not consistent in that regards lol.

DarkSaint85

Yeah that's what I'm trying to get at. Right now it sounds like it's quite one sided.....but a couple months ago it was swinging the other way. And two months from now, it'll be back again.

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah that's what I'm trying to get at. Right now it sounds like it's quite one sided.....but a couple months ago it was swinging the other way. And two months from now, it'll be back again. I'm not entirely convinced of that. I've known a certain crowd on here that will never change their mind or how they apply their rational in a very one-sided manner.

I will say you seem more rational then most of them.

DarkSaint85

Yeah, it's quite tribal on here. But for every abhi, there's an Alberto(who was baziemarc and marcbazie before. Carver, Stoic, JBL.

So it all evens out.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
To be fair those types of arguments existed well before I left. They were as silly then as I see them now. This includes some of the arguments you mentioned.

This forum is nothing if not consistent in that regards lol. Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not entirely convinced of that. I've known a certain crowd on here that will never change their mind or how they apply their rational in a very one-sided manner.

I will say you seem more rational then most of them.
Well you and your fellow marvel fans did it for Superman for years. Maybe it's karma.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by Newjak

Even though that would be as legitimate an argument as trying to say Thor's striking feats don't count as strength feats because of Mjolnir.

Thor using Mjolnir for striking and not counting as strength feat is apretty ignorant stance.

abhilegend

Mjolnir increases his striking power. Without mjolnir Thor doesn't even has a country level striking feat, forget about planetary.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thor using Mjolnir for striking and not counting as strength feat is apretty ignorant stance.

Well tbf ,even ignoring the whole sentient Motherstorm argument, one can strike a LOT harder with a hammer than ones fists....

And that's ignoring that it's a magical uru hammer

With a galaxy sized mother storm inside it.

With an enchantment not even the premier Skyfather can break.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well tbf ,even ignoring the whole sentient Motherstorm argument, one can strike a LOT harder with a hammer than ones fists....

And that's ignoring that it's a magical uru hammer

With a galaxy sized mother storm inside it.

With an enchantment not even the premier Skyfather can break.
No shiet one hits harder with a weapon. I mean really?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No shiet one hits harder with a weapon. I mean really?

Indeed! So how can it all be strength?

If I smash something with a hammer, it's not a pure strength feat. Glad we agree smile

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Indeed! So how can it all be strength?

If I smash something with a hammer, it's not a pure strength feat. Glad we agree smile

Yes but strength plays a major roll. I'm not picking up a hammer and shattering world's with it after all smile

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
Yes but strength plays a major roll. I'm not picking up a hammer and shattering world's with it after all smile

Mjolnir is on itself has been stated to be able to shatter planets like a pebble.

If Thor is really that strong, perhaps he should show it without mjolnir. But he was without mjolnir for years and was never shown planetary level.

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well you and your fellow marvel fans did it for Superman for years. Maybe it's karma. I don't think I've ever seen people nitpick Superman the way his fans have nitpicked Thor

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Newjak
Yes but strength plays a major roll. I'm not picking up a hammer and shattering world's with it after all smile

Well not with any ordinary hammer,no. But Mjolnir is no ordinary hammer, yes?

Can Thor do it with Logan's body, for example?

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't think I've ever seen people nitpick Superman the way his fans have nitpicked Thor
Is that so? Wanna bet?

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mjolnir is on itself has been stated to be able to shatter planets like a pebble.

If Thor is really that strong, perhaps he should show it without mjolnir. But he was without mjolnir for years and was never shown planetary level. That's a silly argument to make and the primary reason I talked about writer's intent.

Like seriously asking for that is like asking for a high end lifting feat where Superman had his flight power turned off...

It is such a weird request given the nature of the characters :/

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't think I've ever seen people nitpick Superman the way his fans have nitpicked Thor

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661369&pagenumber=1

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is that so? Wanna bet? I'm sure you can find examples but my personal experience doesn't match it.

For instance I don't find threads of Superman vs Ironman in an arm-wrestling match where people take it seriously like this one.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm sure you can find examples but my personal experience doesn't match it.

For instance I don't find threads of Superman vs Ironman in an arm-wrestling match where people take it seriously like this one.

Your personal experience, whilst is personal to you (obvs!) is a bit iffy because as you say, you haven't been here for a while.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't think I've ever seen people nitpick Superman the way his fans have nitpicked Thor

I'm the most unbias dude you'll ever see arguing against Superman

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=661369&pagenumber=1 I would argue the specifications of that thread itself is a nitpick considering it's specifically asking for jumping feats in an attempt to itpick other characters feats that would be similar :/

Newjak

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I'm the most unbias dude you'll ever see arguing against Superman Not even close to what I've seen.

At best I could see you as trying to be ironic by giving the same arguments most Superman arguments against other characters go but I don't find you as an unbiased person

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Indeed! So how can it all be strength?

If I smash something with a hammer, it's not a pure strength feat. Glad we agree smile

Lol who said "all strength"?

Let me make it simple then.

Thor throughout godbutcher wad hammering gorr and celestial bodies werent cracking. Im talkin bout multiple issues here.

In issue #9 he went WST(world shatterer thor). What was dynamic? What changed?

When Thor was hammering Kurse, it wasnt enuff. He put on his belt because he felt he needed to change what?

Mjolnir hits harder than without obvs. But u get out of it what u put in.

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your personal experience, whilst is personal to you (obvs!) is a bit iffy because as you say, you haven't been here for a while. This is a fair statement.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
That's a silly argument to make and the primary reason I talked about writer's intent.

Like seriously asking for that is like asking for a high end lifting feat where Superman had his flight power turned off...

It is such a weird request given the nature of the characters :/
Sure, I'll show Superman lifting infinite pages book alongside Captain Marvel without flying, lifting Earth's weight without flying or dozens of such feats where he doesn't flies.

Can you show me anything like that from Thor without mjolnir? Originally posted by Newjak
I'm sure you can find examples but my personal experience doesn't match it.

For instance I don't find threads of Superman vs Ironman in an arm-wrestling match where people take it seriously like this one.
Sure, Superman is just mid herald in your opinion.

Originally posted by Newjak
You should know I am the last one who wants to wank Superman. I still believe he is Mid Herald stick out tongue

And nobody but stilt is taking this thread seriously.

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I'm the most unbias dude you'll ever see arguing against Superman
laughing out loud

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Lol who said "all strength"?

Let me make it simple then.

Thor throughout godbutcher wad hammering gorr and celestial bodies werent cracking. Im talkin bout multiple issues here.

In issue #9 he went WST(world shatterer thor). What was dynamic? What changed?

When Thor was hammering Kurse, it wasnt enuff. He put on his belt because he felt he needed to change what?

Mjolnir hits harder than without obvs. But u get out of it what u put in.

Ok so let's make it simple then. We both agree Mjolnir adds to his striking feats.

Can Thor replicate all his showings with an adamantium hammer?

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well not with any ordinary hammer,no. But Mjolnir is no ordinary hammer, yes?

Can Thor do it with Logan's body, for example? Possibly. That's the point of writer's intent. We know Thor is strong and powerful.

What are the odds of you seeing that happen though in a comic? You're handicapping Thor's feat inherently by tying something that is iconic to him as a substitute for him.

The same thing could be said of Superman's strength vs his flight power.

Yet I would never make a thread asking for Superman's best feat with his flying turned off because I understand the context of these feats and what they're supposed to mean.

We know Superman is supposed to be strong and powerful. Just like we know Thor is.

So unless the writer specifically mentions that the striking feats were accomplished only because of Mjolnir I don't understand why the same wouldn't apply to Thor.

abhilegend

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure, I'll show Superman lifting infinite pages book alongside Captain Marvel without flying, lifting Earth's weight without flying or dozens of such feats where he doesn't flies.

Can you show me anything like that from Thor without mjolnir?
Sure, Superman is just mid herald in your opinion.

And nobody but stilt is taking this thread seriously. The problem with your examples Abhi is he still had access to his ability to fly in those instances. So if you want to nitpick you could argue all of those were only accomplished because we know he can fly. So how much of it was Superman's strength versus his flight?

This is why nitpicking feats while ignoring writer's intention is silly.

I don't believe Superman is Mid-Herald. He is clearly meant to be the cream of the crop. Sometimes annoyingly so. On the other hands so is Thor just not always to the same degree as DC's flagship character.

AlbertoJohnAvil

You think that infinite feat is legit?

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
The problem with your examples Abhi is he still had access to his ability to fly in those instances. So if you want to nitpick you could argue all of those were only accomplished because we know he can fly. So how much of it was Superman's strength versus his flight?

This is why nitpicking feats while ignoring writer's intention is silly.

I don't believe Superman is Mid-Herald. He is clearly meant to be the cream of the crop. Sometimes annoyingly so. On the other hands so is Thor just not always to the same degree as DC's flagship character.
What does ability to fly means when he isn't flying? He is standing and flying?

How's standing still makes you doubt that it was his strength? Wouldn't it be Superman flying to have his flight do anything?

But you did at one point. And Superman was considered no challenge to Thor or Silver Surfer at all.

It has come full circle.

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
laughing out loud

You think that infinite feat is legit?
Go away idiot.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
What does ability to fly means when he isn't flying? He is standing and flying?

How's standing still makes you doubt that it was his strength? Wouldn't it be Superman flying to have his flight do anything?

But you did at one point. And Superman was considered no challenge to Thor or Silver Surfer at all.

It has come full circle. Technically he doesn't have to be in the air to have his flying turned on. So you could argue even standing he was using his flight powers to offset his strength limitations to help him lift those items.

Which is why ignoring writer's intent is stupid in these cases.

I've always given Thor the narrowest edge in these fights. Often citing magic as the thing I thought put Thor over the slight edge.

Even when I did one of those hypothetical versus battle stories I wrote Superman vs Thor as a tough battle that could have gone either way confused

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok so let's make it simple then. We both agree Mjolnir adds to his striking feats.

Can Thor replicate all his showings with an adamantium hammer?
We're talking about a charcter who has a hammer as part of his overall powerset and uses it like 99% of the time. I k ow where ure goin with this.

He closed a portal with Herc and narration stated that they had strength to destroy worlds.

Generated planet moving force from arm wrasslin. stick out tongue

He has replicated comet impact from throwing a small rock.

He has punched off massive amounts of metal while under the effects neutron star gravity.

He has punched an ancient hulk straight through a planet.

He has overpowered the will of a trans universal structure(Yggdrassil).

And on and on... Blah blah etc...

But lets get back to world shatterer thor. What changed? Was it explicitly shown that the hammer received a massive amp? What was dynamic there? Could it be his strength maybe? God forbid thor went dynamic in a comic. Oh boo hiss.. He doesnt have dynamic strength. He's not that strong...

-Pr-

I imagine Thor would win, but this thread lasting six pages is worrying on so many levels.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Newjak
Technically he doesn't have to be in the air to have his flying turned on. So you could argue even standing he was using his flight powers to offset his strength limitations to help him lift those items.

Which is why ignoring writer's intent is stupid in these cases.

I've always given Thor the narrowest edge in these fights. Often citing magic as the thing I thought put Thor over the slight edge.

Even when I did one of those hypothetical versus battle stories I wrote Superman vs Thor as a tough battle that could have gone either way confused

We have the latest Superman issue, Superman #24, saying Clark is as weak/vulnerable to magic as he is to kryptonite.

https://i.postimg.cc/wyqC92vy/ug.jpg

Newjak

Originally posted by -Pr-
I imagine Thor would win, but this thread lasting six pages is worrying on so many levels. I agree.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
Technically he doesn't have to be in the air to have his flying turned on.

This is probably the stupidest thing I've heard all day.

Also its been argued that the strength feat of Superman don't count already.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The planet was being destroyed because Supes and Zod were spiritually tied to it...
http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermansucks27gu4.jpg

Myth busted.

And while I'm thinking about Kryptonian Myths that have been floating around for a while...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Supes moving *insert large object* while flying is a major strength feat"

http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=advsupes43617yl7.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=advsupes43618cr4.jpg
First panel of the second scan...
"And as I discovered some time ago, when I lift an object while I'm flying, there's something other than strength at work."

Myth busted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Daxamite=Superman" ...
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6812/jsaowaw1415vo9.th.jpghttp://img253.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Nameless Daxamite<Powergirl

Myth busted.

So yeah.

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
laughing out loud

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
This is probably the stupidest thing I've heard all day.

Also its been argued that the strength feat of Superman don't count already.

So yeah. It is stupid but that's the point. It's a stupid argument to make while ignoring Writer's intent. Just like trying to make silly arguments about Thor's striking power not showing how strong he is to.

It's a nitpick that doesn't need to happen because we know what the intent is.

As to that other post. I wouldn't really use it to downplay Supes myself. We know Supes is supposed to be really strong even without flying. So it doesn't make sense to me to downplay his feats simply because we know he can also fly.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by abhilegend
Go away.

concession accepted

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
It is stupid but that's the point. It's a stupid argument to make while ignoring Writer's intent. Just like trying to make silly arguments about Thor's striking power not showing how strong he is to.

Except no writer except Byrne even acknowledged flying things makes them LIGHTER. Nearly every writer has shown that mjolnir enhances striking power.

But it was used to downplay Superman. Superman beating Darkseid was used to downplay Darkseid, Doomsday beating Darkseid was used to downplay Darkseid etc.

It was a rule that if Superman beats someone, the character was weak. Heck, marvel fans didn't even accept Superman beating Thor.

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
concession accepted
Yawn. The book was outright stated to contain the entire multiverse idiot.

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except no writer except Byrne even acknowledged flying things makes them LIGHTER. Nearly every writer has shown that mjolnir enhances striking power.

But it was used to downplay Superman. Superman beating Darkseid was used to downplay Darkseid, Doomsday beating Darkseid was used to downplay Darkseid etc.

It was a rule that if Superman beats someone, the character was weak. Heck, marvel fans didn't even accept Superman beating Thor. It's not about flight making things lighter it's about adding the lift of your flight to your own lifting strength to make things easier to move. :/

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Newjak
It's not about flight making things lighter it's about adding the lift of your flight to your own lifting strength to make things easier to move. :/

Has he ever done that?

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Has he ever done that? Probably. Technically it's the only way he could ever tow planets lol.

I think you guys are getting too caught in the specifics though and ignoring the main point. That being just because we know Superman's flight would allow him to augment his strength for lifting things we understand writer's intention to understand that isn't the case most of the time.

IE not downplaying Superman's strength just to try a win in a debate.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
It's not about flight making things lighter it's about adding the lift of your flight to your own lifting strength to make things easier to move. :/
That has never been done. This is like Surfer creating Kryptonite out of thin air because cosmic awareness.

Fanfiction.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
Probably. Technically it's the only way he could ever tow planets lol.

I think you guys are getting too caught in the specifics though and ignoring the main point. That being just because we know Superman's flight would allow him to augment his strength for lifting things we understand writer's intention to understand that isn't the case most of the time.
But how do you know that it augments his strength while he is standing?

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yawn. The book was outright stated to contain the entire multiverse idiot.

It didn't have every possible book that was ever in DC. That's a NLF. For example, it didn't have Jergal's Scroll of the Damned. It didn't have Elminster's various spell tomes. It DEFINITELY didn't have the Book of Magus.

the book Didn't have anything about any stories that took place AFTER that storyline. So it pokes holes in the "whole existence" claim.

That book Did NOT even contain the Astral Plane, the Demiplane of Shadow, the Demiplane of Fear, and DID NOT contain the Speedforce. Thus, it pokes even MORE holes in the claim that it contained all of existence of the DC Mainstream Multiverse at the time.

That's the 2nd time you gotta use hyperbolic feats to support Superman laughing out loud

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It didn't have every possible book that was ever in DC. That's a NLF. For example, it didn't have Jergal's Scroll of the Damned. It didn't have Elminster's various spell tomes. It DEFINITELY didn't have the Book of Magus.

the book Didn't have anything about any stories that took place AFTER that storyline. So it pokes holes in the "whole existence" claim.

That book Did NOT even contain the Astral Plane, the Demiplane of Shadow, the Demiplane of Fear, and DID NOT contain the Speedforce. Thus, it pokes even MORE holes in the claim that it contained all of existence of the DC Mainstream Multiverse at the time.

That's the 2nd time you gotta use hyperbolic feats to support Superman laughing out loud

It contained pretty much everything in existence.

https://s4d2.turboimg.net/sp/e1345a0a2f2413b6bbb3f03335475068/wholeexistanceinthebook.jpg

"Whole of existence in a single book . "

So yeah.

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
But how do you know that it augments his strength while he is standing? I think once again you're missing the point Abhi.

It's not about definitively saying he does this. It's just showing how nitpicking things can lead to silly arguments when we know what the writer's intention is.

For instance Superman's flight would allow him to augment his strength feats because it allows him to exert more force anywhere at anytime.

We know though that is generally never the writer's intention though.

Much like ignoring writer's intention to show how powerful Thor is when he strikes something with his hammer.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Newjak
I think once again you're missing the point Abhi.

It's not about definitively saying he does this. It's just showing how nitpicking things can lead to silly arguments when we know what the writer's intention is. but your example misses the point.

Which is that Thor's strikes are augmented by Mjolnir and it's characteristic/properties. As shown on panel,and agreed upon by even celey.

So it's not really nitpicking to say he augments his striking power.

However, Superman has NOT shown that he uses his flight to augment his lifting power. So yes, it's nitpicking to say he does

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by abhilegend
It contained pretty much everything in existence.

https://s4d2.turboimg.net/sp/e1345a0a2f2413b6bbb3f03335475068/wholeexistanceinthebook.jpg

"Whole of existence in a single book . "

So yeah.

Except it didn't have the "whole of existence" since there were stories that had YET to be written. Thus, the book was being ADDED to.

DC once had the Scroll of the Damned that was in the possession of Jergal (aka the Scribe of the Damned). It contained the written EXACT moments and causes of deaths of mortals that haven't even been born yet. RARELY was that scroll ever edited. Usually, the ONLY being other than Jergal that can edit that scroll is the Overgod known as Ao. Not even Myrkul, Cyric, and or any other gods can even so much edit a single letter that's on that scroll. It could be that Jergal may have been an Aspect of Destiny (of the Endless) at the time when he was in DC.

SO, unlike the book that Ultra-Man lifted, Jergal's Scroll of the Damned is actually INFINITE.
Also, the Book of the Sorcerer Supremes has WRITTEN INFO on mages, magical items, spells, and events that have YET to even happen. Merlin even leaves a warning for Strange, warning him to NOT read his own (Strange's) entry because of the risk of it driving Strange mad. Thus, unlike the book that Ultraman lifted, the Book of the Sorcerer Supremes is INFINITE. Stay butthurt laughing out loud

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
I think once again you're missing the point Abhi.

And what is this point?

How's arguing Mjolnir can break planets on its own nitpick? It's outright stated.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128313/2887045-thor_hammer_lift.jpg

You're confusing your fanfiction with actual comic proof.

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Except it didn't have the "whole of existence" since there were stories that had YET to be written. Thus, the book was being ADDED to.

DC once had the Scroll of the Damned that was in the possession of Jergal (aka the Scribe of the Damned). It contained the written EXACT moments and causes of deaths of mortals that haven't even been born yet. RARELY was that scroll ever edited. Usually, the ONLY being other than Jergal that can edit that scroll is the Overgod known as Ao. Not even Myrkul, Cyric, and or any other gods can even so much edit a single letter that's on that scroll. It could be that Jergal may have been an Aspect of Destiny (of the Endless) at the time when he was in DC.

SO, unlike the book that Ultra-Man lifted, Jergal's Scroll of the Damned is actually INFINITE.
Also, the Book of the Sorcerer Supremes has WRITTEN INFO on mages, magical items, spells, and events that have YET to even happen. Merlin even leaves a warning for Strange, warning him to NOT read his own (Strange's) entry because of the risk of it driving Strange mad. Thus, unlike the book that Ultraman lifted, the Book of the Sorcerer Supremes is INFINITE. Stay butthurt laughing out loud

Yeah you're an idiot.

AlbertoJohnAvil

concession accepted, Like i said. keep resorting to ad hominem attacks laughing out loud

Don't bring that feat up again

Newjak

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
but your example misses the point.

Which is that Thor's strikes are augmented by Mjolnir and it's characteristic/properties. As shown on panel,and agreed upon by even celey.

So it's not really nitpicking to say he augments his striking power.

However, Superman has NOT shown that he uses his flight to augment his lifting power. So yes, it's nitpicking to say he does Yes but we also know often times it's writer's intent to show how powerful Thor is not how powerful Mjlonir is.

So the point of ignoring writer's intention for arguments sake still stands.

Also most Thor fans understand it's still Thor supplying the force of the strike. laughing

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
And what is this point?

How's arguing Mjolnir can break planets on its own nitpick? It's outright stated.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/128313/2887045-thor_hammer_lift.jpg

You're confusing your fanfiction with actual comic proof. It's also been written to be an extension of Thor's own power. :/

It's almost like this is comics and things change all the time. Which is why it's important to understand writer's intention.

Also Superman has used his flying to move objects before so it's not really that big of stretch to compare the two.

-Pr-

You guys wanna enlighten me as to why Superman is being brought up at all?

DarkSaint85

Because Aquaman is his equal thumb up

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
concession accepted, Like i said. keep resorting to ad hominem attacks laughing out loud

Don't bring that feat up again
Idiot, when they lifted the scan it actually showed the overvoid and entire multiverse growing in it.

https://i.postimg.cc/y3gKfdqw/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/s1v3fnBw/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/YjZMv1Yk/image.jpg

The overvoid itself was contained in the book. Shut up idiot.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
It's also been written to be an extension of Thor's own power. :/

Not since Aaron retconned it.

Its fanfiction. Mjolnir increasing Thor's striking power is a fact.

Newjak

Originally posted by -Pr-
You guys wanna enlighten me as to why Superman is being brought up at all? Because I was hoping to use an easy to understand example for a character other people like to show the fallacy of ignoring writer's intent with trying to downplay characters.

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not since Aaron retconned it.

Its fanfiction. Mjolnir increasing Thor's striking power is a fact. laughing

Yes but it doesn't negate Thor or the fact he still supplies a lot of the power in his swings.

This type of argument only serves as an easy attempt to win a debate and downplay other characters.

Once again you could make the same argument then that Superman uses his flight to more than his strength and therefore all of his strength feats are invalid.

Logically it meets the same criteria as what you described for Thor and Mjlonir.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
laughing

Yes but it doesn't negate Thor or the fact he still supplies a lot of the power in his swings.

This type of argument only serves as an easy attempt to win a debate and downplay other characters.

So mjolnir=Planetary, Thor+mjolnir=Still planetary.

What exactly is Thor providing there?

No, you can't argue that with the feats which Superman does while standing still.

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
So mjolnir=Planetary, Thor+mjolnir=Still planetary.

What exactly is Thor providing there?

No, you can't argue that with the feats which Superman does while standing still. Yet there are panels where Thor talks about swinging Mjolnir with his full might. Nothing being denoted about Mjolnir helping him at all. Writer's intention in these scenes is clearly to show Thor's power not Mjolnirs lol.

And yes you can actually argue that. It's not like we haven't seen Superman use his flight to move objects.

We know Supes can hover so it's not like he has to be moving to use his flight. Therefore even standing he can use his flight to augment his ability to move things. It's perfectly logical. We just understand what the writer's intention is so we understand not to downplay the feat in such a way.

Newjak

Clearly lol

abhilegend

Originally posted by Newjak
Yet there are panels where Thor talks about swinging Mjolnir with his full might. Nothing being denoted about Mjolnir helping him at all. Writer's intention in these scenes is clearly to show Thor's power not Mjolnirs lol.

Huh? What kind of logic is that?

Sure, let's see those things where he used solely flight to move something?

Its not logical to assume he is flying while standing. That's absurd.

Newjak

Originally posted by abhilegend
Huh? What kind of logic is that?

Sure, let's see those things where he used solely flight to move something?

Its not logical to assume he is flying while standing. That's absurd. Correction it is unlikely to be true that he would be flying while standing on the ground. That doesn't make it impossible or illogical for it to be the case.
It's a nitpick argument after all. Which is what I've been trying to tell you guys. Just because something can be made a logical argument to undermine a character doesn't mean it should be used.

And are you a Superman fan really saying you've never seen Superman fly around with heavy objects before lol.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by abhilegend
Idiot, when they lifted the scan it actually showed the overvoid and entire multiverse growing in it.

https://i.postimg.cc/y3gKfdqw/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/s1v3fnBw/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/YjZMv1Yk/image.jpg

The overvoid itself was contained in the book. Shut up idiot.

That in no way shape or form addressed anything I said

-Pr-

The Infinite Book feat, while a legitimate feat, is a) not quantifiable, and b) irrelevant to this discussion.

Kindly get back on the actual topic.

ShadowFyre

Originally posted by -Pr-
The Infinite Book feat, while a legitimate feat, is a) not quantifiable, and b) irrelevant to this discussion.

Kindly get back on the actual topic.

Thank you. Literally has zero relevance on this match.

abhilegend

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
That in no way shape or form addressed anything I said
laughing out loud

Delta1938

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, it's quite tribal on here. But for every abhi, there's an Alberto(who was baziemarc and marcbazie before. Carver, Stoic, JBL.

So it all evens out.

Honestly AJA doesn't seem to speak English as his primary language, Bazie did. Unless he hit his head and it did permanent damage, I don't think they're the same person. There's a few other smaller reasons too.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thor using Mjolnir for striking and not counting as strength feat is apretty ignorant stance.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No shiet one hits harder with a weapon. I mean really?

Um you don't see the contradiction?

Delta1938

Once again though the same logic could be used for Superman and his strength feats really just being flying feats.

I'm just going to address your posts in general off memory, so if there's anything specific I didn't address but you want me to, feel free to point me to it.

I understand the analogy you're trying to argue, but it's utterly flawed. You really think writers always intend it to be he hits no harder with Mjolnir so they're just as valid as a fist fight? You actually tried arguing because Superman can still possibly be using his flight even if we don't see it. You don't see that as an utterly ridiculous nitpick compared to wanting to see Thor striking without Mjolnir?

Let's even compare the flying when he strikes argument. While the flight itself is argued to add to the power, he would still have to be strong enough so his arms stay straight on impact. And unless you argue what only Byrne really went into, any lifting feat while flying would still require the strength to hold it, unless you're arguing he's just holding it on his back and physically is completely overwhelmed and his flight does it all.

Thor is hitting with a virtually indestructible hammer that's got various enchantments. What justification other than "writer's intent," which would have to be proven or at least supported, can you make to argue it's still valid to show him striking with Mjolnir as his normal striking power?

I think it says something in one topic a while back where it was asked for Thor winning hand-to-hand fights without Mjolnir, how most if not all included Mjolnir to some degree.

As for you've never seen Superman nitpicked to the degree you see Thor, how long have you been inactive?

Delta1938

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
laughing out loud

I guess Doctor Strange has "Infinite level STRENGTH!" too
Here he picks up the Book of Vishanti with 1 hand. Does it have an Infinite amount of pages? YES. Why? Because it is being nigh-constantly updated in regards to spells being written inside of it by the Vishanti and various mages.

https://i.postimg.cc/MMVB50xT/ehd.jpg

Where does it actually say it has infinite pages? It doesn't even include what you say it does adding pages, let alone has infinite pages.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
It didn't have every possible book that was ever in DC. That's a NLF. For example, it didn't have Jergal's Scroll of the Damned. It didn't have Elminster's various spell tomes. It DEFINITELY didn't have the Book of Magus.

the book Didn't have anything about any stories that took place AFTER that storyline. So it pokes holes in the "whole existence" claim.

That book Did NOT even contain the Astral Plane, the Demiplane of Shadow, the Demiplane of Fear, and DID NOT contain the Speedforce. Thus, it pokes even MORE holes in the claim that it contained all of existence of the DC Mainstream Multiverse at the time.

That's the 2nd time you gotta use hyperbolic feats to support Superman laughing out loud

It's not a NLF given Morrison went out of his way. "Every book possible" was the least of which used to describe it.