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Mongul
Darksied
Doomsday
Captain Marvel
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Aquaman

Aquaman 9001

Also pre new 52 version of those chars?

Yes pre new 52 and its the doomsday that killed superman

DoS, then. Okay.

And Mongul Junior, I assume.

Yes

I'll let others chime in because I'm curious where they see Mongul. And also DoS Doomsday compared to Darkseid.

Also, are we assuming that Superman = 100 when's he's bloodlusted and going all-out(like he did during DoS and OWAW)..?

Or is this just your standard/baseline Superman? If so, then a few of these characters would be above 100.

Originally posted by HumbleServant
Mongul
Darksied
Doomsday
Captain Marvel
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Aquaman Mongul 100
Darkseid 100
Doomsday 150
Captain Marvel 90
Martian Manhunter 70
Wonder Woman 85
Aquaman 40

Originally posted by lawest9
Mongul 100
Darkseid 100
Doomsday 150
Captain Marvel 90
Martian Manhunter 70
Wonder Woman 85
Aquaman 40

This. I would put Martian Mahunter and Wonder Woman at 90 though.

Originally posted by carver9
This. I would put Martian Mahunter and Wonder Woman at 90 though. You can make a case for WW, but MM???.....
.give me a good sale pitch.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Aquaman 9001
Is this your version of "I love DBZ now"?

ha-som

Mongul 75
Darksied 150
Doomsday 120
Captain Marvel 85
Martian Manhunter 80
Wonder Woman 86
Aquaman 30-40

Look at you lot, all asking questions like you know comics....

Mongul (Sr) 100
Mongul (Jr) 95
Darkseid 175
Doomsday (DOS) 150
Doomsday (H/P) 300
Captain Marvel 90
Martian Manhunter 80
Wonder Woman 85
Aquaman 40

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mongul (Sr) 100
Mongul (Jr) 95
Darkseid 175
Doomsday (DOS) 150
Doomsday (H/P) 300
Captain Marvel 90
Martian Manhunter 80
Wonder Woman 85
Aquaman 40

Mongul Jr isn't 95.

Yes he is. He has slapped Diana away casually and normal Superman couldn't even hurt him with his punches until he received training from Mongul himself.

Mongul Sr above Mongul Jr?

Eh..

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mongul (Sr) 100
Mongul (Jr) 95
Darkseid 175
Doomsday (DOS) 150
Doomsday (H/P) 300
Captain Marvel 90
Martian Manhunter 80
Wonder Woman 85
Aquaman 40

Based on the dream sequence of Billy just after Warnof the Gods he was pretty sure Dianna was just above him. He should know where she is at compared to himslef and he dreamed she bested him with a concerted effort (which I assume meant the very slightest of edges)

Cant say I really disagree with much else, though I am surprised you put Mongul so high. He has more lower showings that bring down his average IMHO.

Originally posted by beatboks
Based on the dream sequence of Billy just after Warnof the Gods he was pretty sure Dianna was just above him. He should know where she is at compared to himslef and he dreamed she bested him with a concerted effort (which I assume meant the very slightest of edges)

Cant say I really disagree with much else, though I am surprised you put Mongul so high. He has more lower showings that bring down his average IMHO.
Billy was generally shown above power girl who was more or less equal than Diana.

Mongul has had his average boosted by fighting Superman and Kyle together and it was later stated that both were needed to beat him.

Same Mongul got beaten by a drained Superman and was absolutely humiliated by Cyborg Superman.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure on where to rank the Mongul(s) in general relative to the rest.

If I had to do it right now, assuming it's:
Originally posted by Galan007
Also, are we assuming that Superman = 100 when's he's bloodlusted and going all-out(like he did during DoS and OWAW)..?

Or is this just your standard/baseline Superman? If so, then a few of these characters would be above 100.
...the standard one, and not just the DoS (Byrne)/Version but pre-Flashpoint, I'd say something like:

Mongul Sr. - 80
Mongul Jr. - 85
Darksied - 130
Doomsday - 95
Doomsday - 150
Captain Marvel - 80
Martian Manhunter - 70
Wonder Woman - 75
Aquaman - 40

I changed my mind regarding Captain Marvel & Black Adam in comparison to Wonder Woman from my previous stance.

As always, these are not actual multiplier, but just relative gaps.

Yeah he jobbed pretty hard initially.

I'll probably update the Superman respect thread and add feats from "For the Man who has Everything" since it was recently referenced -- speaking of Mongul getting respect.

That has always been confusing and frustrating, haven't it?

It really is.

But overall he may have higher end feats.

That's the thing -- Captain Marvel is not limited to Hercules' strength.

That would explain much then.

ha-som

Yeah you have to remember he has the power of Zeus and the stamina of Atlas to go with that strength. The power ups the strength and it's Atlas' "stamina" that allows him to carry a planet thru the heavens.

I mean its not like Zeus, Atlas and other sources of his power dont also have super strength.

Interesting how close the numbers are in mine and Phildo's list

Mine


Phil's


I differ re the main discrepancies ( Mongal, DS, WW - Doomsday is really a split the difference) given I'm a LOT less up to date on Superman to have the full scale to compare to (considering I stopped collecting all Supes mags as a regular monthly pull during the reign of the supermen fiasco, post DOS)

Mongul: 90
Darksied: 150
Dos doomsday: 110
Hp doomsday:250
Cap marvel 95
Wonder Woman 90
Aquman 40.

Originally posted by beatboks
Mongul 75
Darksied 150
Doomsday 120
Captain Marvel 85
Martian Manhunter 80
Wonder Woman 86
Aquaman 30-40

I'd change Darkseid to 95 (Superman more than matched him when he beat his eyes closed). Doomsday to 150, and Aquaman to 60 (His fight with Diana made him appear to be more than half her strength).

So much for "Aquaman is in Diana's league" ermm

Originally posted by -Pr-
So much for "Aquaman is in Diana's league" ermm

Where would you place him in relation to her?

Originally posted by -Pr-
So much for "Aquaman is in Diana's league" ermm Pre-Flashpoint

Current one I'd put at 65-70.

Mongul SR 100
Mongul JR 98
Darkseid 160
Doomsday DOS 125
Doomsday H/P 250
Cap Marvel 90
Martian Mamhunter 95
Wonder Woman 92
Aquaman 75

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Mongul SR 100
Mongul JR 98
Darkseid 160
Doomsday DOS 125
Doomsday H/P 250
Cap Marvel 90
Martian Mamhunter 95
Wonder Woman 92
Aquaman 75


J'onn stronger than Cap? Bwahaha.

Originally posted by abhilegend


J'onn stronger than Cap? Bwahaha. And Diana stronger than him as well.

Originally posted by abhilegend


J'onn stronger than Cap? Bwahaha.

Oh yeah

Cap beat the shit out of J'onn in both JLI and Underworld Unleashed. Black Adam beats the shit out of J'onn in WWIII.

MM: J'onn is stronger than Captain Marvel.

You know Abhi, I do like you. Well, respect, at least. You always have an agenda, but you never try and hide that fact, and while you often come across as a bit of a c*nt, you wear that badge without a trace of shame. I don't understand why these comics matter to you as much as they do, but you stick to your guns with astounding determination, and while your tactics win you no friends, you've made it abundantly clear that this means nothing to you.

These are admirable qualities, and I genuinely hope you never change. I wish you all the best dude, sincerely.

Originally posted by Martian_mind


You know Abhi, I do like you. Well, respect, at least. You always have an agenda, but you never try and hide that fact, and while you often come across as a bit of a c*nt, you wear that badge without a trace of shame. I don't understand why these comics matter to you as much as they do, but you stick to your guns with astounding determination, and while your tactics win you no friends, you've made it abundantly clear that this means nothing to you.

These are admirable qualities, and I genuinely hope you never change. I wish you all the best dude, sincerely.
Aww, I love you too bro.

But anyway, there's absolutely no precedence of J'onn looking stronger than Captain Marvel before Flashpoint. Heck he didn't look stronger than Diana since at least Greg Rucka's run on WW.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But anyway, there's absolutely no precedence of J'onn looking stronger than Captain Marvel before Flashpoint. Heck he didn't look stronger than Diana since at least Greg Rucka's run on WW.

I can honestly accept this as a position. I think the strength tier directly below Superman (in his average portrayal) is so subject to fluctuation that as long as you have these three within say, 5 points of each other, you're basically doing it right.

Agreed.

We should do this for current versions, too.

Mongul - 100, sometimes 110
Darksied - 150
Doomsday - 155
Captain Marvel - 100
Martian Manhunter - 95
Wonder Woman - 95
Aquaman - 40

Mongul: 10⁻0
Darksied: 10⁻0
Doomsday: 120
Captain Marvel: 95
Martian Manhunter: 90
Wonder Woman:90
Aquaman: 60

Darkseid = 105
Superman = 100
Doomsday = 99
Mongul = 95
Captain Marvel = 90
Martian Manhunter = 85
Wonder Woman = 80
Aquaman = 30

I'm giving Darkseid the benefit of the doubt. If this was HP Doomsday Darkseids numbers would look differently and he would be below Superman. But this was when DC didn't start pulling avatars out of their asses to excuse everything about Darkseid.

No idea why people are placing Doomsday over Superman with 25-50 points. If he was that much higher he would have easily beat Superman, but he didn't.
Right now I also view Supermans 100 as his absolute max... Like the "I just went to the sun to get the power I need to kill your sorry ass".

Mongul could be higher based on his showings against Superman, but again... I don't think that was the Engage-Kill-Mode-Superman.

Huh. A sundipped Superman fought Darkseid.