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SS before the black story arc, no bfr, who wins?

Namor, easily.

Namor would kill him. Completely different level.

SS>>Hulk>1/5 of the Phoenix five

Originally posted by 8swords
SS>>Hulk>1/5 of the Phoenix five I'm pretty sure Namor twisted Rulk arm during their encounter and while Rulk is no Hulk, it wasn't close match.

1/5 PF > SS > regular Hulk > Rulk

Originally posted by 8swords
SS>>Hulk>1/5 of the Phoenix five
Uh, what?Originally posted by vansonbee
I'm pretty sure Namor twisted Rulk arm during their encounter and while Rulk is no Hulk, it wasn't close match.

1/5 PF > SS > regular Hulk > Rulk
He damn near tore his arm off casually.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113691/5654524-capture.png%204.png

Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh, what?
He damn near tore his arm off casually.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113691/5654524-capture.png%204.png

Originally posted by vansonbee
I'm pretty sure Namor twisted Rulk arm during their encounter and while Rulk is no Hulk, it wasn't close match.

1/5 PF > SS > regular Hulk > Rulk

He also took a charged Mjolnir cheapshot to the head, if memory serves.

And shrugged it off with no problem.

Rulk is no Hulk, Lol.............

Didn't know that he and Glads fought, have any scans?

Gladiator "fought" Colosuss and Namor. It wasn't really a fight though, as he was bloody and unconscious with Colossus's first shown strike. Namor and Colossus pummeled on him some more before Cyclops called them off, as he didn't consider the Shi'ar to be enemies. Needless to say, Namor would have done it alone too.

https://postimg.cc/NLNLRrLb
https://postimg.cc/YhZ9sK6W
https://postimg.cc/qzzqwM3r
https://postimg.cc/zyhBmt7P
https://postimg.cc/bGjvqxFY

Glads should have taken the peace offer from Cyke, instead of coming in with that paternalistic nonsense. It's no wonder Cyclops let the beating go on for a bit.



And Stilt is right. Namor completely no sold a blindside from Thor.

https://postimg.cc/XZwt0FTb
https://postimg.cc/2brMjyDB

I imagine Surfer wouldn't fare very well against P5 Namor. At all.

Just wanted to add that the Surfer is also Hulk's weakness. He can dupe the Hulk's power, or remove it altogether. Other class 100 bricks like Hercules can hurt the Surfer with punches. The Surfer has power over energy enriched opponents, which is why he has an easy time with most versions of the Hulk.

Namor is definitely physically stronger than Surfer but isn't as fast or as versatile. I usually have a problem with picking the stronger character while ignoring other important things.

Surfer has the tools to win but it depends heavily on how a person sees him fighting.
Does he uses his speed and reflexes?
Does he go exotic when he sees his blasts not doing much?
Does he fight like a moron and go fisticuffs with Namor?

Wtf P5 Namor was a lot more powerful than I remember.

Originally posted by h1a8
Namor is definitely physically stronger than Surfer but isn't as fast or as versatile. I usually have a problem with picking the stronger character while ignoring other important things.

Surfer has the tools to win but it depends heavily on how a person sees him fighting.
Does he uses his speed and reflexes?
Does he go exotic when he sees his blasts not doing much?
Does he fight like a moron and go fisticuffs with Namor?

P5 Namor has the Surfer outclassed on evey level that counts. This is the Surfer we're talking about, not Thanos.

Originally posted by h1a8
Namor is definitely physically stronger than Surfer but isn't as fast or as versatile. I usually have a problem with picking the stronger character while ignoring other important things.

Surfer has the tools to win but it depends heavily on how a person sees him fighting.
Does he uses his speed and reflexes?
Does he go exotic when he sees his blasts not doing much?
Does he fight like a moron and go fisticuffs with Namor?

Would the Surfer get to do anything before he gets his face punched in?

Namor is durable enough to no-sell attacks like Thor. By the time Surfer gets to use his most powerful attacks, Namor would have just punched him really hard.

Namor also had global telepathy, TK, and energy blasts. Not to mention casually disarming Thor of his weapon:
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3748782-phoenix%201.png

Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh, what?
He damn near tore his arm off casually.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/113691/5654524-capture.png%204.png

obvious joke post, cant believe you would've reacted to this.. although the scan you posted did remind me of that stupid moment in that arc where they somehow think they needed hulk in fighting the phoenix five..

Originally posted by Stoic
P5 Namor has the Surfer outclassed on evey level that counts. This is the Surfer we're talking about, not Thanos. Only in physical strength.
Not speed or versatility.

Originally posted by h1a8
Only in physical strength.
Not speed or versatility.

Btw notice how in the top panel Namor is holding Rulk's left arm.
In the second panel it's his right....

Originally posted by h1a8
Only in physical strength.
Not speed or versatility.

You may not know this, but beings possessed of the Phoenix force are able to travel at those same speeds. They have far more versatility than a Herald of Galactus as well. He is outclassed and going up against a being at least 3 tiers above him. This is like pitting Pee Wee Herman against Deathstroke and hoping he'd do well.

How do they have far more versatility than a herald of Galactus?
You can literally do anything with the power cosmic.

Phoenix avatars use cosmic power as well. The first time that the Surfer felt the presence of Jean with the PF he makes a comment about it. Also, look at what Cyclops had done with the power while off planet. You might also want to read PF users bio to get an idea of the scope of their powers in terms of versatility. There's likely no character in comics that make the Surfer look like a one trick pony, but Norrin is outclassed here.

What kind of abilities do they get access to that power cosmic users don't?

Norrin can do anything. Being stronger doesn't make you more versatile.

Originally posted by Stoic
You may not know this, but beings possessed of the Phoenix force are able to travel at those same speeds. They have far more versatility than a Herald of Galactus as well. He is outclassed and going up against a being at least 3 tiers above him. This is like pitting Pee Wee Herman against Deathstroke and hoping he'd do well.

Surfer can do a Zillion things. Prove that Namor can do half the things Surfer can. Prove that Namor can travel instantly as fast as Surfer and has Surfer level reactions.

Prove these things. No speculation. Show us.

Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer can do a Zillion things. Prove that Namor can do half the things Surfer can. Prove that Namor can travel instantly as fast as Surfer and has Surfer level reactions.

Prove these things. No speculation. Show us. show me surfer doing a zillion things. I want a actual proof not the made up bullshit you try to push.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
show me surfer doing a zillion things. I want a actual proof not the made up bullshit you try to push.


You don't understand English?
Clearly 'zillion' means a hell of a lot. You should know that right?

What are we arguing here?

I think we all agree that P5 Namor is more powerful.

However, how can anyone claim that any character is MUCH more versatile than SS? No character in comics is MUCH MORE versatile than him. SS alone has more feats than X-teams by his lonesome.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What are we arguing here?

I think we all agree that P5 Namor is more powerful.

However, how can anyone claim that any character is MUCH more versatile than SS? No character in comics is MUCH MORE versatile than him. SS alone has more feats than X-teams by his lonesome. The problem is retardh1 thinks surfer uses ever ability in every fight constantly like spamming black holes in people when in fact all he every really does in blast and punch in most of his fights.

Originally posted by krisblaze
What are we arguing here?

I think we all agree that P5 Namor is more powerful.

However, how can anyone claim that any character is MUCH more versatile than SS? No character in comics is MUCH MORE versatile than him. SS alone has more feats than X-teams by his lonesome.

youre gonna have to prove those claims

Originally posted by Insane Titan
The problem is retardh1 thinks surfer uses ever ability in every fight constantly like spamming black holes in people when in fact all he every really does in blast and punch in most of his fights.
You are the retard for lying and saying things I never stated. I stated Surfer is more versatile than Namor. If you disagree then you are a troll and I pray to God the mods warn you.

Surfer WILL resort to exotic means if his blasts are not working. There is no PIS here. Surfer is not stupid.
Surfer is versatile because he has done many different things on different occasions.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
youre gonna have to prove those claims
Not really, Surfer's versatility is well established.
P5 Namor's is not.

I also didn't make the initial claim here.
And Surfer's respect thread only has dead links now

Silver Surfer's in-character go-to tactics:
Blast
Punch
"By Shalla-Bal, I'm being beaten to death!"

P5 Namor wins. He's just way more powerful. Look at the team P5 Namor took on. They would have buried Surfer (hell Thor alone could take out Surfer for the majority).

And of course there's more proof of Surfer's versatility in comparison to P5 Namor. Surfer has 50+ years of showings to draw from, P5 Namor has like 3 months.

Get ready to be owned in front of everyone.

This is what I stated.
Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer "can" do a Zillion things.
Which clearly means "a lot".

You stated this afterwards
Originally posted by Insane Titan
The problem is retardh1 thinks surfer uses ever ability in every fight constantly like spamming black holes in people when in fact all he every really does in blast and punch in most of his fights.


Therefore either your English sucks or you are just trolling again.
"can" means has the ability or capacity and "will" means inevitable event.

No one stated or implied that Surfer "will" do a zillion things in a single fight. I stated that he CAN do (has the ability) a zillion different possible things in a fight.

Then you went full retard and state this.
Originally posted by Stoic
They have far more versatility than a Herald of Galactus as well.

In other words, Namor is more versatile than Surfer which is pure trolling since either
1. you mean that Namor "will" do a zillion different powers in a fight (since I used the same wording as you used)
or

2. that Namor "can" do more different things than Surfer (which is blatantly false).

Phoenix said she knows the truth. Namor would be able to create things from knowing that Surfer never imagined.
I stopped reading with the start of P5.

Namor takes this

this is a close one

Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer can do a Zillion things. Prove that Namor can do half the things Surfer can. Prove that Namor can travel instantly as fast as Surfer and has Surfer level reactions.

Prove these things. No speculation. Show us.
I think you're overthinking this. Look at what it took to take down P5 Namor. Multiple teams of Avengers couldn't do it. They had to use weakness exploit, Wanda's Chas Magic, to beat him.

If Thor and crew couldn't do it, what makes you think Surfer can? Keep in mind how Thor has given Surfer hell the many times they fought and even beat him once or twice.

P5 Namor wins and it's not even close.

Originally posted by zopzop
I think you're overthinking this. Look at what it took to take down P5 Namor. Multiple teams of Avengers couldn't do it. They had to use weakness exploit, Wanda's Chas Magic, to beat him.

If Thor and crew couldn't do it, what makes you think Surfer can? Keep in mind how Thor has given Surfer hell the many times they fought and even beat him once or twice.

P5 Namor wins and it's not even close.

I never stated nor implied that Surfer wins. But I will declare who I think wins later in this post.

My position was that Namor only is physically stronger than Surfer. Surfer has all the other advantages.

Surfer can easily make this a stalemate by simplying avoiding getting hit (he has the speed and perceptions to do so).

Your logic is wrong. ABC logic doesn't work and this isn't a comic fight. Does Surfer have the tools to put Namor down? Surfer has several exotic means to put Namor down. Will Surfer use these means? Well if his generic blasts aren't doing anything then why not?

with that said, Surfer wins. His speed and perceptions alone will prevent Namor from even tagging him once.

One time Silver Surfer expanded the function of the Power Cosmic when all the eyeballs were threading the children.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Gladiator "fought" Colosuss and Namor. It wasn't really a fight though, as he was bloody and unconscious with Colossus's first shown strike. Namor and Colossus pummeled on him some more before Cyclops called them off, as he didn't consider the Shi'ar to be enemies. Needless to say, Namor would have done it alone too.

https://postimg.cc/NLNLRrLb
https://postimg.cc/YhZ9sK6W
https://postimg.cc/qzzqwM3r
https://postimg.cc/zyhBmt7P
https://postimg.cc/bGjvqxFY

Glads should have taken the peace offer from Cyke, instead of coming in with that paternalistic nonsense. It's no wonder Cyclops let the beating go on for a bit.



And Stilt is right. Namor completely no sold a blindside from Thor.

https://postimg.cc/XZwt0FTb
https://postimg.cc/2brMjyDB

I imagine Surfer wouldn't fare very well against P5 Namor. At all.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
One time Silver Surfer expanded the function of the Power Cosmic when all the eyeballs were threading the children. 😜😜😜😜😜😜

P5 Namor absolutely slaughters the Surfer. This is a huge mismatch.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
One time Silver Surfer expanded the function of the Power Cosmic when all the eyeballs were threading the children. 😜😜😜😜😜😜

Originally posted by MrMind
this is a close one Hmmmm.......

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Namor wouldn't land a blow on Surfer if Surfer uses his speed and perceptions.
2. Namor has no defense (by feats) against singularities or getting hit with the board from behind.

Phoenix Namor grabs the board and beats ss head in.

Originally posted by Booya_69
Phoenix Namor grabs the board and beats ss head in.

The board will be coming from behind Namor at superspeed.

Cosmic Awareness h1. Phoenix Avatars are every bit as fast as a Herald of Galactus.

Originally posted by Booya_69
Phoenix Namor grabs the board and beats ss head in.

Yep.

Originally posted by Stoic
Cosmic Awareness h1. Phoenix Avatars are every bit as fast as a Herald of Galactus.



Yep.

Without feats they are not. Get to posting speed feats for Namor. Because all I've seen is him get tagged by slow attacks and nothing to contradict it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't say the board will take out Namor. It will hurt him though.

Give me feats by Namor showing how much greater his durability than Brb's.

I guess the way they deal with Thor's hits....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess the way they deal with Thor's hits....

On average yes, but not using top feats.
BRB best feats are beyond typical strikes from Thor.
If you go by average then of course taking Thor hits has meaning.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I guess the way they deal with Thor's hits....

Originally posted by h1a8
Without feats they are not. Get to posting speed feats for Namor. Because all I've seen is him get tagged by slow attacks and nothing to contradict it.

The Surfer gets tagged by slow opponents all of the time. What's with the double standard?

Originally posted by Stoic
The Surfer gets tagged by slow opponents all of the time. What's with the double standard?

Your reading comprehension is terrible.
Namor needs speed feats to contradict him getting hit with slow attacks.
Surfer has them.

Remember we pick high feats over low ones. Duh.
Show me some feats that contradict Namor getting hit with slow attacks. I'll side with the highest you got and ignore all lower ones.

Namor slaughters.

H1's ego just won't allow him to back down. It's actually pretty sad. The Surfer is crazy fast until it's a DC character, because when it is, he becomes a statue.

P5 Namor one shots.

Originally posted by Stoic
H1's ego just won't allow him to back down. It's actually pretty sad. The Surfer is crazy fast until it's a DC character, because when it is, he becomes a statue.

P5 Namor one shots.

There are infinite different levels of speed. Any object can be statued provided they are moving significantly slower than another object.

With that said nanosecond reactions statues microsecond reactions and femtosecond reactions statues nanosecond reactions. It's simple.

I'm not even sure Namor has even microsecond reactions though.

Surfer would win by eventually going exotic after a long battle of blasting and not getting anywhere.

Originally posted by h1a8
There are infinite different levels of speed. Any object can be statued provided they are moving significantly slower than another object.

With that said nanosecond reactions statues microsecond reactions and femtosecond reactions statues nanosecond reactions. It's simple.

I'm not even sure Namor has even microsecond reactions though.

Surfer would win by eventually going exotic after a long battle of blasting and not getting anywhere.

You have no idea do you? You'd better beef up on what Phoenix Avatars are capable of. Thor can and has stalemated the Surfer. Arguing with an egotistical moron is a fruitless venture, because even when they know that they're wrong, they'll insist that they are right. Kind of like you h1.

Namor could improve time to himself personally leavening Silver Surfer 🏄‍♂️ hanging and enabling Namor to effect things for his personal reasons.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/K9kpRJo4L9QAxFd78

An example of Namor's speed grabbing the Surfer.

Originally posted by Stoic
You have no idea do you? You'd better beef up on what Phoenix Avatars are capable of. Thor can and has stalemated the Surfer. Arguing with an egotistical moron is a fruitless venture, because even when they know that they're wrong, they'll insist that they are right. Kind of like you h1.

Anyone can stalemate someone when they aren't using their top speed and reactions. It's called PIS. Happens to Spidey and Flash too.

Surfer wins.

Originally posted by lawest9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/K9kpRJo4L9QAxFd78

An example of Namor's speed grabbing the Surfer.

Good find

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good find Thank you.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Namor could improve time to himself personally leavening Silver Surfer 🏄‍♂️ hanging and enabling Namor to effect things for his personal reasons. Hmmmmm........

Originally posted by lawest9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/K9kpRJo4L9QAxFd78

An example of Namor's speed grabbing the Surfer. Meaningless scan. Holds no water in a forum fight. Surfer can travel at FtL speeds and has nanosecond reactions. Namor would be a statue IF Surfer was fighting to the best of his ability as shown before (FULL CAPACITY).

Originally posted by h1a8
Meaningless scan. Holds no water in a forum fight. Surfer can travel at FtL speeds and has nanosecond reactions. Namor would be a statue IF Surfer was fighting to the best of his ability as shown before (FULL CAPACITY). Not against the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by lawest9
Not against the Phoenix Force. So the PF stops Surfer from using his speed and reactions?

Another other for Surfer is Bfr.

The Phoenix Force can literally drain the life force out of the Surfer. Even the least impressive Phoenix Avy can damage Galactus significantly. H1 just learn more about the characters that you argue against. Speed will not be an issue here. The Surfer is so far below this weight class that even comic book PIS wouldn't allow for much more than 2-3 exchanges before Norrin would be brutally defeated and burned alive by Phoenix fire.

Next you'll argue that the Surfer would perform well against Odin.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Phoenix Force can literally drain the life force out of the Surfer. Even the least impressive Phoenix Avy can damage Galactus significantly. H1 just learn more about the characters that you argue against. Speed will not be an issue here. The Surfer is so far below this weight class that even comic book PIS wouldn't allow for much more than 2-3 exchanges before Norrin would be brutally defeated and burned alive by Phoenix fire.

Next you'll argue that the Surfer would perform well against Odin.

Phoenix host can't do anything in a forum it wasn't shown to do in comics. You can argue potential (with feats) but you must also must argue propensity.

Surfer can put Namor in a black hole or bfr him.

The Surfer would be too busy fighting off the mind rape that all PF hosts can do. You have no idea what they can do. The Surfer is a light weight against them.

Originally posted by Stoic
The Surfer would be too busy fighting off the mind rape that all PF hosts can do. You have no idea what they can do. The Surfer is a light weight against them. Surfer has tp feats and tp resistant feats greater than Namor.

Although you haven't proven Namor has the propensity to even use TP assault (assuming he can and knows how).

If Namor shows something one time only then it counts as propensity and he can think of it and possibly choose to do it in a forum fight.

Originally posted by lawest9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/K9kpRJo4L9QAxFd78

An example of Namor's speed grabbing the Surfer. Should've posted the whole sequence:

https://i.ibb.co/Nj5pYv2/07-Cnel-IRg-V3mj-Crhj-Efx-Tg-ANi-Jlfs-Xm-Wm-Scbwsy-Rbl-Eg1qpf-M8-X4q9-COy-P1kz-FSCNEhpc-Ll-Vr-QYQ-s1.jpg https://i.ibb.co/VJL4JR8/gh-Gjvy4prsv-Te-MWul-Kyy-Fq-e4-UUKQ1-EGCGa6-Tkgalkx-Ul-FDAi8ud-OUriqlxfg-ARFHw-S6q-DK-j-Wg4-s1600.jpg https://i.ibb.co/CPGnqpx/ot-Vyy-UTup8s-OLcc-ULid-ACnn-ZKc-PPFl-J3-ILIp1-IXk9w11jk-Kyh-Dqhl6-Ew-YZc3-Be1lkyrf-DWRs-Ob-C-s1600.jpg

Bonus!

https://i.ibb.co/jGXmKKv/n-Ta02-Fe23d-CXEr-Ziv-Ulc-MIB1r-T8-No-Fz-CYO-Cd7tn-Cbuy-Mdx-KWMn-Hw-ICjo-TL7-EBYc-JWfal-Gh-Kx-X8-s16.jpg https://i.ibb.co/YZrN90f/ys9-BNxco-NJrq-L6-Cof-Jnv43c-Xt-ANTc-Oc-ARXs9q-Ud-FKb-Sq-Kyix-Aj-D4-NCAR0y-Bo-OZn64sar-ENYWk9y-N-s16.jpg

I thought that was enough to make my point about Namor's speed and reflexes.

How has this spite thread gone on 5 pages?! Surfer has no chance.

Originally posted by zopzop
How has this spite thread gone on 5 pages?! Surfer has no chance. H1 ego, stubbornness and retarded nature.

Spite match. Surfer loses badky

Originally posted by Insane Titan
H1 ego, stubbornness and retarded nature.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Spite match. Surfer loses badky

This is a forum fight where there is no PIS and where we have Full capacity.

Surfer can win in various ways. It would be very hard for Namor to land a blow.

Where does it say this is a forum fight? So like a BZ?

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Where does it say this is a forum fight? So like a BZ?

Forum fights have specific rules. Comics don't.

Bro... Are you being serious right now? Unless this is a BZ or stated, we debate... You know what? **** it. It's amazing how the rules and ways of debating flip flop and spaz the **** out whenever your in a thread.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Bro... Are you being serious right now? Unless this is a BZ or stated, we debate... You know what? **** it. It's amazing how the rules and ways of debating flip flop and spaz the **** out whenever your in a thread. I have no idea of what you are talking about.

I'm the only one debating here. You guys are saying Namor wins because he is stronger. That's a dumb argument. It shows lack of decent intelligence. Do you know how fast light moves? Circle the Earth 7 times in a second. Just imagine how fast someone would be on a battlefield traveling that fast? Namor would not be able to hit someone with that level of speed and perceptions.

All Phoenix Force hosts can travel FTL, the all have vast TK and TP abilities, the Phoenix Force can emit cosmic fire capable of burning anything. They possess vast cosmic awareness, super strength,matter transmutation, and life force draining powers amongst other abilities. The levels of their abilities far outshine those of the Heralds of Galactus.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm the only one debating here. You guys are saying Namor wins because he is stronger. That's a dumb argument. It shows lack of decent intelligence. Do you know how fast light moves? Circle the Earth 7 times in a second. Just imagine how fast someone would be on a battlefield traveling that fast? Namor would not be able to hit someone with that level of speed and perceptions.

Magik is faster than that yet you don't bring that up in other debates.

Methinks you don't actually know what you're debating against, sometimes.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm the only one debating here. You guys are saying Namor wins because he is stronger. That's a dumb argument. It shows lack of decent intelligence. Do you know how fast light moves? Circle the Earth 7 times in a second. Just imagine how fast someone would be on a battlefield traveling that fast? Namor would not be able to hit someone with that level of speed and perceptions. Lmao , the only thing you say is surfer wins via exotic means the use examples that are shit.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have no idea of what you are talking about.

Bro, you said this is a forum fight... As opposed to?

" Ike 60 people are all disagreeing with me, the only conclusion that I can come to, is that they are all wrong, and I am right"

Full Capacity does not exclude In Character, unless stated.

In fairness the Power Cosmic does seem to be more various than just molecular control. We see it more in the form of blasts and of talk of shaping so that we understand it to be subtle yet effective.

For example one thing both can do is tune into the frequency of the other

Still Phoenix is a creation of the Universe in answer the crying of those harmed.

Originally posted by Magnificent M
Full Capacity does not exclude In Character, unless stated.

And that's what I was getting at

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
And that's what I was getting at

In my last post I wrote

Originally posted by Magnificent M
Full Capacity does not exclude In Character, unless stated.

You just nailed the coffin shut. But, even if we removed CIS, the Surfer would be up against a power at least 2-3 tiers above him in direct comparison to P5 Namor. PIS is when you have the Surfer narrowly escape death while facing Knull.

H1 is trying to argue that PIS would be the only way that P5 Namor would win, even though P5 Namor is vastly more powerful. He would also like to mislead us into believing that by using full capacity for the Surfer that we can ignore the Surfer's style of combat due to his character.

The only versions of the Surfer that I know of that could likely defeat P5 Namor after a major struggle would be The Keeper, or The Fallen One. Base form Surfer would be brutally defeated.

An interesting assessment.

Originally posted by Stoic
You just nailed the coffin shut. But, even if we removed CIS, the Surfer would be up against a power at least 2-3 tiers above him in direct comparison to P5 Namor. PIS is when you have the Surfer narrowly escape death while facing Knull.

H1 is trying to argue that PIS would be the only way that P5 Namor would win, even though P5 Namor is vastly more powerful. He would also like to mislead us into believing that by using full capacity for the Surfer that we can ignore the Surfer's style of combat due to his character.

The only versions of the Surfer that I know of that could likely defeat P5 Namor after a major struggle would be The Keeper, or The Fallen One. Base form Surfer would be brutally defeated.

There was another Surfer in Secret Wars 2 that no sold Maestro and treated him like a child.

Originally posted by Stoic
You just nailed the coffin shut. But, even if we removed CIS, the Surfer would be up against a power at least 2-3 tiers above him in direct comparison to P5 Namor. PIS is when you have the Surfer narrowly escape death while facing Knull.

H1 is trying to argue that PIS would be the only way that P5 Namor would win, even though P5 Namor is vastly more powerful. He would also like to mislead us into believing that by using full capacity for the Surfer that we can ignore the Surfer's style of combat due to his character.

The only versions of the Surfer that I know of that could likely defeat P5 Namor after a major struggle would be The Keeper, or The Fallen One. Base form Surfer would be brutally defeated.

We don't go by power levels when determining a winner. That's like saying that character A wins because he's stronger. A can be a billion times more powerful than B and still lose to B.

We have to look at all the abilities a character will bring to the forum fight and analyze carefully.

Surfer has several ways to put Namor down (Black hole, removing the PF, Bfr, etc).

Surfer will not start the fight with those options. But those options will become viable if nothing else is working.

Originally posted by h1a8
We don't go by power levels when determining a winner. That's like saying that character A wins because he's stronger. A can be a billion times more powerful than B and still lose to B.

We have to look at all the abilities a character will bring to the forum fight and analyze carefully.

Surfer has several ways to put Namor down (Black hole, removing the PF, Bfr, etc).

Surfer will not start the fight with those options. But those options will become viable if nothing else is working.

Surfer will do nothing but be defeated by his superior in all ways. Removing the Phoenix Force? What? You're a clown.

All Phoenix Force avatars have Cosmic Awareness that is above the Heralds of Galactus. Phoenix Force avatars are powerful enough to fight Galactus. The Surfer isn't. All Phoenix Force avatars can move at FTL speeds. Power levels do matter when you pit a gnat up against an inferno. Learn about the characters that you argue against instead of typing out random bullshit that you believe will stick. No one on any forum would agree with you. Go back and read the responses.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
There was another Surfer in Secret Wars 2 that no sold Maestro and treated him like a child.

The Surfer has power over energy enriched characters like the Hulk. He uses power hijacking against them. It's the reason that weaker characters like Hercules can knock him on his can, while most Hulks are helpless before him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Surfer will do nothing but be defeated by his superior in all ways. Removing the Phoenix Force? What? You're a clown.

All Phoenix Force avatars have Cosmic Awareness that is above the Heralds of Galactus. Phoenix Force avatars are powerful enough to fight Galactus. The Surfer isn't. All Phoenix Force avatars can move at FTL speeds. Power levels do matter when you pit a gnat up against an inferno. Learn about the characters that you argue against instead of typing out random bullshit that you believe will stick. No one on any forum would agree with you. Go back and read the responses.



The Surfer has power over energy enriched characters like the Hulk. He uses power hijacking against them. It's the reason that weaker characters like Hercules can knock him on his can, while most Hulks are helpless before him.

All you are doing is trolling at this point. You haven't addressed anything I said. The PF has been easily knocked out of Namor. Why ignore this?

Namor has no feats of nanosecond reactions. Namor has no feats of obtaining light speed within the first few seconds of travel.
Namor has no feats against Bfr or singularities.

Even if you want to give him other peoples feats then you still have to show the scans or give issue numbers.
Give any relevant speed feat from ANY PF user.
Give any relevant feat against Bfr from any PF user.

Give feats!

Originally posted by h1a8
All you are doing is trolling at this point. You haven't addressed anything I said. The PF has been easily knocked out of Namor. Why ignore this?

Namor has no feats of nanosecond reactions. Namor has no feats of obtaining light speed within the first few seconds of travel.
Namor has no feats against Bfr or singularities.

Even if you want to give him other peoples feats then you still have to show the scans or give issue numbers.
Give any relevant speed feat from ANY PF user.
Give any relevant feat against Bfr from any PF user.

Give feats!

It was knocked out....By Scarlet Witch, wielding Chaos Magic, which was his weakness iirc.

You can't give Surfer her feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was knocked out....By Scarlet Witch, wielding Chaos Magic, which was his weakness iirc.

You can't give Surfer her feats.

It looked like a collaboration between all the avengers (including Thing) knocking him out and that Wanda was shielding herself. I'll reread it.

Lmao..

Phoenix avatars were only defeated by themselves, or by Chaos Magic.

Cdtm will also bring Iron Fisty magic up,butw eignore that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. Lmao..

2. Phoenix avatars were only defeated by themselves, or by Chaos Magic.

Cdtm will also bring Iron Fisty magic up,butw eignore that. 1. What's funny?
2. What does that have to do with PF being knocked out of Namor?

1. It was a pretty important plot point But you would know that if you had read the actual AvX storyline

2. What does it have to do with Surfer? You literally said we don't share feats - then shared feats.

What gives the Surfer the power to drain a PF avator of the PF? don't see it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was knocked out....By Scarlet Witch, wielding Chaos Magic, which was his weakness iirc.


Wasn't Chaos Magic retconned. I remember Dr Strange in Avengers Disassembled saying there's no such thing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. It was a pretty important plot point But you would know that if you had read the actual AvX storyline

2. What does it have to do with Surfer? You literally said we don't share feats - then shared feats.

1. No it wasn't.
2. You can't answer a question with a question.

1. Erm.... yes it was.

https://i.postimg.cc/JzBxQrj7/RCO004-1475730126.jpg

Her Chaos Magic and Hope were the only ones capable of hurting the PF. Just her touch hurt Cyclops, who literally stopped an enraged Thor with a finger:
https://i.postimg.cc/rsPGS3mt/RCO035-1475743076.jpg

In short, what Scarlet Witch could do/did, does not translate to Surfer.

Edit: hell, it wasn't even her touch, lol. Just holding her arm hurt Cyclops.


2.....Except I did. I literally answered your question, had you bothered to read on.

Sliver Surfer did fight God-like Cable.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
1. Erm.... yes it was.

https://i.postimg.cc/JzBxQrj7/RCO004-1475730126.jpg

Her Chaos Magic and Hope were the only ones capable of hurting the PF. Just her touch hurt Cyclops, who literally stopped an enraged Thor with a finger:
https://i.postimg.cc/rsPGS3mt/RCO035-1475743076.jpg

In short, what Scarlet Witch could do/did, does not translate to Surfer.

Edit: hell, it wasn't even her touch, lol. Just holding her arm hurt Cyclops.


2.....Except I did. I literally answered your question, had you bothered to read on.

1. It wasn't an important plot point as to prove why the PF left Namor. Others were able to hurt Namor too. Wanda fought Namor earlier and his PF didn't leave him. It makes more sense that the other P4 removed Namor's portion when he was down and out rather than what Wanda did.

2. No you didn't answer the question. You originally stated nonsense about how only Phoenix avatars and Wanda can defeat other Phoenix avatars. No one mentioned DEFEAT. The argument was about knocking the PF out of Namor, not defeating him.

You should have said only Phoenix avatars and Wanda can knock the Phoenix Force out of other avatars (which isn't true).

Originally posted by h1a8
1. It wasn't an important plot point as to prove why the PF left Namor. Others were able to hurt Namor too. Wanda fought Namor earlier and his PF didn't leave him. It makes more sense that the other P4 removed Namor's portion when he was down and out rather than what Wanda did.

Please read the AvX storyline. You don't even need to read the tie-ins. Just the actual main story, lol.



This was the original post you made:
I wasn't talking about hurting?

Your original post:

Originally posted by h1a8
All you are doing is trolling at this point. You haven't addressed anything I said. The PF has been easily knocked out of Namor. Why ignore this?

It was knocked out by Wanda. They even mention her specifically:

https://i.postimg.cc/VkSqQnBB/RCO002-1475730294-1.jpg

They were afraid of her:
https://i.postimg.cc/SszQmQ1P/RCO014-1475762661.jpg

And she was the only threat to them:
https://i.postimg.cc/D0kv0Vtw/RCO004-1475762661-1.jpg

So returning to your original post:
Originally posted by h1a8
All you are doing is trolling at this point. You haven't addressed anything I said. The PF has been easily knocked out of Namor. Why ignore this?
Wanda was present, and we don't share feats, remember? It was specifically her hex field that caused issues with the PF:
https://i.postimg.cc/0jsvxYw6/RCO021-1475762661-1.jpg

You can't have use the PF being knocked out by Wanda and apply it to Surfer. We don't share feats.

Although, it seems like you are now changing your stance. And now saying the P4 REMOVED his portion - which again, is VERY different ( ) to knocking it out of him - which you can't share feats with. What the P4 can or cannot do, doesn't mean Surfer can or cannot do.

Edit: even at the end:
https://i.postimg.cc/W1Wk5nDw/RCO005-1475730126.jpg
'Only thing that hurts it is Wanda and Hope'

Why?
https://i.postimg.cc/4N1t9ZsM/RCO018-1475730126.jpg

And this was FULL powered Cyclops.

So yeah. What Wanda did =/= what Surfer can do.

I only read a little of P5 but Phoenix is incarnate. Anything created is an ability of hers making Galactus little science show a 5th grade morsel.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
I only read a little of P5 but Phoenix is incarnate. Anything created is an ability of hers making Galactus little science show a 5th grade morsel. About equal to a well fed big G.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Please read the AvX storyline. You don't even need to read the tie-ins. Just the actual main story, lol.



This was the original post you made:
I wasn't talking about hurting?

Your original post:



It was knocked out by Wanda. They even mention her specifically:

https://i.postimg.cc/VkSqQnBB/RCO002-1475730294-1.jpg

They were afraid of her:
https://i.postimg.cc/SszQmQ1P/RCO014-1475762661.jpg

And she was the only threat to them:
https://i.postimg.cc/D0kv0Vtw/RCO004-1475762661-1.jpg

So returning to your original post:

Wanda was present, and we don't share feats, remember? It was specifically her hex field that caused issues with the PF:
https://i.postimg.cc/0jsvxYw6/RCO021-1475762661-1.jpg

You can't have use the PF being knocked out by Wanda and apply it to Surfer. We don't share feats.

Although, it seems like you are now changing your stance. And now saying the P4 REMOVED his portion - which again, is VERY different ( ) to knocking it out of him - which you can't share feats with. What the P4 can or cannot do, doesn't mean Surfer can or cannot do.

Edit: even at the end:
https://i.postimg.cc/W1Wk5nDw/RCO005-1475730126.jpg
'Only thing that hurts it is Wanda and Hope'

Why?
https://i.postimg.cc/4N1t9ZsM/RCO018-1475730126.jpg

And this was FULL powered Cyclops.

So yeah. What Wanda did =/= what Surfer can do.

1. You are begging the question. You are assuming what you are trying to prove. Clearly if Wanda knocked the PF out of Namor then Surfer doesn't get that feat automatically. But the problem is you haven't proved the initial claim but assumed it.

I read the issue. Why do you think I stated that they fought earlier and nothing happened then. The scan you posted even stated "with help of the Scarlet Witch" which means that it was a collaborative effort and she didn't do it alone. That means all it takes is someone to ko Namor in order for the PF to come out. The avengers did way mor than what Wanda did. This is confirmed watching the previous fight against Namor.

Wanda and Hope can take Jean in 5 pieces to form a new X-man. If mutants can be created by mutants 5 steps at a time like the carbon chain.

What does Scarlet Witch being able to beat Namor have to do with Surfer?

Too lazy to read all of this.

Original post from h1was that the PF was easily knocked out of Namor.

Well, to quote you:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You can't have use the PF being knocked out by Wanda and apply it to Surfer. We don't share feats.

What Wanda did =/= what Surfer can do.

How is this even an argument?

Oh, because it's H1.

He then shifted his position to 'its more logical that the Avengers beat part of it out, then the P4 took it from him'.

In short, he's trying to make it like Surfer will beat it out of Namor.