Invincible

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Dreampanther
Invincible coming to Amazon Prime.


JuMiq7eg91M

riv6672
I thought the trailer was fun, and the animation evokes the comic, which is kind of rare and nice to see.

Though I never noticed how much Omni Man looks like J Jonah Jameson in the book.

Surtur
Looks good, can't wait.

BruceSkywalker
this looks freaking f 'ing good

Galan007
Figured I'd repost this here...

Originally posted by Galan007
-bfAVpuko5o

Honestly looks really good... Especially around the 1:30 mark. thumb up

Surtur
Do we have a release date?

cdtm
Originally posted by riv6672
I thought the trailer was fun, and the animation evokes the comic, which is kind of rare and nice to see.

Though I never noticed how much Omni Man looks like J Jonah Jameson in the book.

He kind of does. laughing out loud

cdtm
I can't see Invincible without thinking about The Ray.

Christopher Priest run. Convinced a lot of influences came out of that, like an ******* father who's only slightly less sociopathic then early Omni-Man, but never has a character arc where he becomes a better man.

There's a meta justification in it where Ray goes back in time before his father got his powers and was an honest scientist, goes ape shit on him accusing him of dickery he hadn't done yet, and nearly kills him. Essentially breaks his father's mind before he's even born.

Galan007
Originally posted by Surtur
Do we have a release date? March 26th.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Surtur
Do we have a release date?


same day as Snydercut evil face evil face evil face evil face evil face evil face



but I definitely will be watching

Surtur
Originally posted by cdtm
I can't see Invincible without thinking about The Ray.

Christopher Priest run. Convinced a lot of influences came out of that, like an ******* father who's only slightly less sociopathic then early Omni-Man, but never has a character arc where he becomes a better man.

There's a meta justification in it where Ray goes back in time before his father got his powers and was an honest scientist, goes ape shit on him accusing him of dickery he hadn't done yet, and nearly kills him. Essentially breaks his father's mind before he's even born.

I just remember discovering Invincible way back in like 2006 when it was relatively unknown still even though it first came out in 2003. So I caught up with all the issues and it was awesome. It really pulled me in more than any of the DC or Marvel comics at the time.

I confess though I still haven't finished the comic series. I was around like 120 issues in. I have to finish it.

cdtm
The finale is pretty good. thumb up

Battle Beast vs Thragg is must read.

ares834
The animation is a bit rough. They probably should have used less budget on the voice cast and put more of it in the animation... But otherwise looks pretty good.

Galan007
First 3 episodes are out, and they're definitely worth a watch. thumb up

Adam Grimes
Watched ep1 last night and it was really good.

KingD19
Good lord the end of episode 1. I forgot about that scene in the comics it's been so long.

BruceSkywalker
like the 1st episode.. watching 2nd one now

tkitna
Good stuff for sure

Dreampanther
Loved it. I discovered Invincible ages ago and wanted to read it, but never got around to it. Now I am so glad! Both my brother and I sat stunned at the end of Ep 1, wondering what the %$#@! just happened.

Haven't been that surprised by a twist in ages.

So please, when discussing, use spoilers!

cdtm
Originally posted by KingD19
Good lord the end of episode 1. I forgot about that scene in the comics it's been so long.


I remembered. smile


Think they're doing things out of order. Allen comes before the massacre, I believe.

Probably did it this way to bring in Demon Detective, he's new to the show.

Old Man Whirly!
Superb, better than the comic so far.

cdtm
I don't know about that.


It certainly does Kirkman proud on the brutality front. But its early yet, can't really compare it to a finished series.


I'd imagine a lot of material from the comic will be unsuitable for TV. Like the rape of Invincible by someone who not only wasn't demonized in the least, but became sympathetic and died a heroic death. That ain't happening on TV.

I predict it will become its own thing, the same way Walking Dead did. Maybe Invincible won't even Marry Eve this run, and end up with Amber.

BruceSkywalker
should i read the comics

cdtm
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
should i read the comics

I wouldn't at this point. If you liked the big twist, the comics might spoil other things.

You can always catch up later to compare them to the show.

Adam Grimes
I don't like how they're handling Nolan, though. He wasn't such a blatant ******* in the comics at this point.

KingD19
Kirkman said that since the comic ran for 16 years at 144 issues, the cartoon would be paced differently since you can't do a frame for frame adaptation from comic to screen. It also took Mark way longer than 20 minutes to get used to his powers and get his suit. And for him to reveal Viltrum and all that stuff.

cdtm
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I don't like how they're handling Nolan, though. He wasn't such a blatant ******* in the comics at this point.

I don't remember him talking down to his wife at all in the comics. Ever.


The whole point of his reform is that he went native, and she was the reason.

KingD19
Originally posted by cdtm
I don't remember him talking down to his wife at all in the comics. Ever.


The whole point of his reform is that he went native, and she was the reason.

I'm pretty sure their were a few moments he snapped at her and went overboard like any normal couple, but I remember clearly when he dropped the bomb and told her he never loved her. He saw her as a pet and only used her to have Mark.

They're showing him in a more negative light though because this isn't a comic so they can't just give him thought bubbles to explain his motivations. We the audience have to see that he's not truly what he seems and they can only show us that through his actions.

The show will not be a page by page adaptation of the comic, so people should just stop griping about that now or else you'll be complaining about every single episode, but no cartoon adaptation has ever and will ever be 100% the same as the comic it's based on.


Also Nolan hasn't reformed yet. There's a lot that happens between the end of episode 1 with what he did and him becoming a better guy.

cdtm
Originally posted by KingD19
I'm pretty sure their were a few moments he snapped at her and went overboard like any normal couple, but I remember clearly when he dropped the bomb and told her he never loved her. He saw her as a pet and only used her to have Mark.

They're showing him in a more negative light though because this isn't a comic so they can't just give him thought bubbles to explain his motivations. We the audience have to see that he's not truly what he seems and they can only show us that through his actions.

The show will not be a page by page adaptation of the comic, so people should just stop griping about that now or else you'll be complaining about every single episode, but no cartoon adaptation has ever and will ever be 100% the same as the comic it's based on.


Also Nolan hasn't reformed yet. There's a lot that happens between the end of episode 1 with what he did and him becoming a better guy.

Wow.

Amazing they worked it out after that.

Doubly ironic Mark was used himself, in a different way. I'm 99% certain if we get to that point in the series, it ain't going down like that. Getting raped, keeping quiet about it, and his rapist being portrayed as a loving mother who dies a sympathetic death? Uh-uh.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by KingD19
I'm pretty sure their were a few moments he snapped at her and went overboard like any normal couple, but I remember clearly when he dropped the bomb and told her he never loved her. He saw her as a pet and only used her to have Mark.

They're showing him in a more negative light though because this isn't a comic so they can't just give him thought bubbles to explain his motivations. We the audience have to see that he's not truly what he seems and they can only show us that through his actions.

The show will not be a page by page adaptation of the comic, so people should just stop griping about that now or else you'll be complaining about every single episode, but no cartoon adaptation has ever and will ever be 100% the same as the comic it's based on.


Also Nolan hasn't reformed yet. There's a lot that happens between the end of episode 1 with what he did and him becoming a better guy. Ok. I still don't like how much on the nose it is.

cdtm
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Ok. I still don't like how much on the nose it is.

He's kind of coming off full on villian at this point.

Sitting back while a monster razes the city calming telling his wife "I'm on vacation".

KingD19
The point is basically that we the audience know he's a villain. The in universe general public don't however. Nolan doesn't have to hide who and what he is from us the viewers because we don't exist for him. He can be as much of a dick as he wants in another dimension or away from the cameras because as far as everyone on Earth is concerned he's their greatest hero.

I dont like it as much as the comic but I understand why. Kirkman can't draw it out for a super long time. The show might not make it long enough so he has to streamline it as much as possible. He can't use multiple episodes for a super slow reveal like he did in the comics because what if it gets canceled in season 2 and he spent most of season 1 dropping breadcrumbs? Now the pacing of the show is out of whack.

cdtm
They wasted a lot of time with the dating game though. Could have cut out a bunch of scenes there. Actually, the Demon Detective was a bit of a waste too, the reveal that Cecil knows and is sitting on it didn't really require all the screen time Demon Detective got, who is now out of the show.

Gonna be pretty hard to walk back Nolan as an irredeemable villian for a TV audience. I'm not sure Nolan is getting a redemption arc at the end of this.

I mean, he COULD.. But I have a feeling there may be a lot of changes from the comic, like they did with Walking Dead. Not even all that sure Mark and Eve will be more then friends.

KingD19
Mark and Eve definitely will end up together. Their relationship struggles and triumphs are one of the main focuses of the series. There's even a moment after Mark and Amber break up and he starts dating Eve where he beats the dog shit out of her new bf because he's abusing her. And even though they broke up, he still cares about her and they're still really good friends. And Mark and Eve have a long conversation about that.

And Nolan will be the same as Neegan. He does a lot of messed up stuff but eventually gets back on the good guys side with heavy restrictions and ends up being necessary despite all he's done. People don't really like having him around but they realize he is a damn good bulwark against everyone else that wants to take Earth.

Darth Thor
Never read the comics, but the show is great so far.

KingD19
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Never read the comics, but the show is great so far.

You definitely should. You get way more detail and involved storytelling. I'm gonna tell you now though, the hits come hard and they keep on coming. This series makes you feel hurt and sorrow and anger like all the time. Its way more emotionally taxing than reading a Marvel or DC run. Because it deals with real issues that are compounded by super powers and that entire world.

BruceSkywalker
watched all 4 episodes and this freaking fracking awesome


gonna read the comics after the 8 episodes are done

cdtm
How do you think Anissa will happen?

Same as the comic? Completely different?

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by KingD19
You definitely should. You get way more detail and involved storytelling. I'm gonna tell you now though, the hits come hard and they keep on coming. This series makes you feel hurt and sorrow and anger like all the time. Its way more emotionally taxing than reading a Marvel or DC run. Because it deals with real issues that are compounded by super powers and that entire world. I agree with this. 👍🏻

KingD19
Originally posted by cdtm
How do you think Anissa will happen?

Same as the comic? Completely different?

Amazon gave us "The Boys" and Kirkman made Walking Dead. They knew what they were getting into with him. If it's not exactly the same, it'll be pretty similar. They might have him fight a bit harder. But it's gonna happen.

Galan007
Battle Beast. droolio

Adam Grimes
Isn't this moving a little too fast?

Then again, I smoked the whole comic series in a month. Lol

Mindset
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Isn't this moving a little too fast?

Then again, I smoked the whole comic series in a month. Lol Wdym?

KingD19
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Isn't this moving a little too fast?

Then again, I smoked the whole comic series in a month. Lol

The comic series took 15 years(2003-2018) to finish. Anything shorter will look super fast in comparison.

Mindset
Originally posted by KingD19
The comic series took 15 years(2003-2018) to finish. Anything shorter will look super fast in comparison. I didn't even know it was done lol

cdtm
Wish they could stick this in:


https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11117/111172491/3976591-1152450-rhino.jpg


Especially if it happened between massacring the Guardians of the Globe.


"You're killing that woman Supreme! Only I get to do that!"

KingD19
Originally posted by cdtm
I remembered. smile


Think they're doing things out of order. Allen comes before the massacre, I believe.

Probably did it this way to bring in Demon Detective, he's new to the show.

I forgot about it because a lot was different. Some gender swaps, etc... But primarily, Nolan had absolutely no trouble whatsoever taking out the Guardians in the comic. He didn't get beat so bad he passed out at the scene of the crime.

BruceSkywalker
man this show is violently good

Galan007
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Isn't this moving a little too fast?

Then again, I smoked the whole comic series in a month. Lol Pacing is definitely faster in the show, but that's a good thing right now... Kirkman shouldn't bog down this series with filler, imo.

Robtard
Watched all five eps over the weekend. Was kinda bored with the first ep, wasn't awful, but was overall generic superhero stuff, which we have a lot now. Then the last 10 mins or so, holy shit, that made a sharp turn.

Looking forward to season 2.

Robtard
So I've read up on the comic/characters some. To the comic readers:

It seem like the Immortal shouldn't be dead from his injuries and they should have been able to revive him?

cdtm
Originally posted by Robtard
So I've read up on the comic/characters some. To the comic readers:

It seem like the Immortal shouldn't be dead from his injuries and they should have been able to revive him?

Like it says on the tin. smile

Minor spoiler, He was Abe Lincoln.

KingD19
He does get revived later.

cdtm
Immortal.

Galan007
Originally posted by Robtard
So I've read up on the comic/characters some. To the comic readers:

It seem like the Immortal shouldn't be dead from his injuries and they should have been able to revive him? If the show follows the comics, then they'll reattach Immortal's head to his body, and *poof*, he'll be alive again.

Newjak
Finally caught up with this and I've been enjoying it. I never read the comics but know what happens in them.

This show is awesome though.

The animation is off at times but the voice acting and pacing seem right where it needs to be to keep my attention right now for the long haul.

I actually think this show is better than the Boys right now.

cdtm
Originally posted by Newjak
Finally caught up with this and I've been enjoying it. I never read the comics but know what happens in them.

This show is awesome though.

The animation is off at times but the voice acting and pacing seem right where it needs to be to keep my attention right now for the long haul.

I actually think this show is better than the Boys right now.

Amber is way less annoying on the show.

She was practically a Karen in the comics. Mark tells her everything, and she has this vacant stare the entire time, then finally says "Wow, my boyfriend is a superhero". Like that's all she got out of it, and didn't realize the tremendous commitment and trust he was placing in her. And then she gets annoyed if he misses dates because he's literally saving the world.

Newjak
Originally posted by cdtm
Amber is way less annoying on the show.

She was practically a Karen in the comics. Mark tells her everything, and she has this vacant stare the entire time, then finally says "Wow, my boyfriend is a superhero". Like that's all she got out of it, and didn't realize the tremendous commitment and trust he was placing in her. And then she gets annoyed if he misses dates because he's literally saving the world. Yeah I like Amber on the show.

I think she is portrayed in a cool fun manner and right now her being annoyed with Mark is definitely justified.

steverules_2

KingD19
There's a very good/bad reason for it.

Mindset

cdtm
Earth is a big rock in space.

The Stone Protectors?

Galan007
Nolan going beast mode never ceases to amuse. smile

cdtm
Nolan's the only thing they nailed. Don't much care for the changes they made on other characters, like Cecil acting disgusted at associating the his reformed asset, when comic cecil always treated him with respect. I guess they're trying to make Cecil more sympathetic, but he really isn't meant to be.

And they went the complete opposite direction on Mark, he's coming across as an straight up *******. Yet ironically, the William/Amber/Eve response to his dual identity dilemma and the reveal also seemed really unfair towards him, in spite of the fact he really is being a jerk.

Like "Ok, so you're saving city from a monster. But you were still late for a date!"

Priorities totally in order.

cdtm
Yeah, the more I think about it the less I care for the black and white morality.


I understand you need to make changes for adaptations, but the whole point of Cecil Stedman is his moral ambiguity. He's essentially Captain Ahab with an obsession, and his White Whale is protecting America (And the Earth, but he's a government dog at heart). To that end he'll do anything, even make a deal with the devil himself.

Essentially. he is to Invincible as Rorschach is to The Watchmen.

So imagine Rorschach saying "You know what, you're right. Lets hide the truth about Ozymandias... For the good of the world."

wakkawakkawakka
I've been enjoying the show so far even though I think some of the animation is a bit rough. Though I did get enough media exposure to this to know that Mark is supposed to have some uber fight with Conquest

Though a few questions for those that might know the comic a bit more. To start Is Cecil supposed to be morally ambiguous? In the show he seems more steadily aligned to "good" with a bit of edge. Also I've heard that Nolan is supposed to beat up Mark pretty bad after revealing who he is though I'm not sure how that's going to happen. Futhermore I not sure if Mark was supposed to be kind of a jerk early in the series though the reaction to his breakup was a bit overblown: though William is kind of justified being at ground zero of Mark's screw up IMO

cdtm
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I've been enjoying the show so far even though I think some of the animation is a bit rough. Though I did get enough media exposure to this to know that Mark is supposed to have some uber fight with Conquest

Though a few questions for those that might know the comic a bit more. To start Is Cecil supposed to be morally ambiguous? In the show he seems more steadily aligned to "good" with a bit of edge. Also I've heard that Nolan is supposed to beat up Mark pretty bad after revealing who he is though I'm not sure how that's going to happen. Futhermore I not sure if Mark was supposed to be kind of a jerk early in the series though the reaction to his breakup was a bit overblown: though William is kind of justified being at ground zero of Mark's screw up IMO

See my spoilers. smile

Mark was never this much of a jerk, no. I think Amber is passing the buck somewhat though, as she lied to him as much as he did to her, only he had the better excuse.

It's her right to walk away from the relationship, but not really up to her to expect Mark to choose between heroing and dating. That's simply unfair, as Marks work is frankly more important then keeping a date happy.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by cdtm
See my spoilers. smile

Mark was never this much of a jerk, no. I think Amber is passing the buck somewhat though, as she lied to him as much as he did to her, only he had the better excuse.

It's her right to walk away from the relationship, but not really up to her to expect Mark to choose between heroing and dating. That's simply unfair, as Marks work is frankly more important then keeping a date happy.

Well that's kind of a bummer. Though If Amber knew about Mark being Invincible I think she could have gave a better reason for being mad about the campus situation. After all she would have seen him fight the weird cyborg/corpse things.

-Pr-
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well that's kind of a bummer. Though If Amber knew about Mark being Invincible I think she could have gave a better reason for being mad about the campus situation. After all she would have seen him fight the weird cyborg/corpse things.

Yeah it was a tad inconsistent. It's strange that they're trying to justify Amber not being happy with him and the whole "he kept his secret identity from her" thing.

cdtm
Originally posted by -Pr-
Yeah it was a tad inconsistent. It's strange that they're trying to justify Amber not being happy with him and the whole "he kept his secret identity from her" thing.

The reaction in general to Marks reveal was kind of lame. Almost as bad as The Plutonians girlfriend reporter lashing out and trying to ruin him.

Even if she already knew, being so cavalier about a pretty big leap of faith just makes everyone look stupid.

-Pr-
Originally posted by cdtm
The reaction in general to Marks reveal was kind of lame. Almost as bad as The Plutonians girlfriend reporter lashing out and trying to ruin him.

Even if she already knew, being so cavalier about a pretty big leap of faith just makes everyone look stupid.

Yeah, it's the weakest part of the show by far.

I've really enjoyed everything with Nolan though.

Newjak
I enjoyed the newest episode. Finally got to watch it today.

Robtard
Originally posted by Galan007
If the show follows the comics, then they'll reattach Immortal's head to his body, and *poof*, he'll be alive again.


Basically what happened. Even if short lived :P

cdtm
So, you think the Bulletproof side story is happening?


You know, the accidentally murder of his parents, followed by covering it up and just pretending they died in a car wreck?


I forgot all about that, read it last night.

Robtard
Didn't think of this until someone else mentioned it, but is Amber supposed to be a legit crazy b!tch or just poorly written? She called Mark a coward for running away from her perspective, but then claims she always knew he was Invincible all along later on.

cdtm
Originally posted by Robtard
Didn't think of this until someone else mentioned it, but is Amber supposed to be a legit crazy b!tch or just poorly written? She called Mark a coward for running away from her perspective, but then claims she always knew he was Invincible all along later on.

I don't know how much of what we see is Kirkman, compared to other writers or executive meddling, but I will say he has always written characters as a little bit crazy.

Mark for example goes from soapboxing against killing, to just kind of shrugging his shoulders if an alien does it (Because culture man, who are we to judge?), to casually murdering a guy possessed by alien parasites that could have been saved, to breaking a dinosaur villian out of prison to be an eco-terrorist and indirectly cause the ice caps to melt and cause cities to fall into the ocean.


And these things have absolutely no long term consequences at all. smile

wakkawakkawakka
Well the big beat down that everyone saw coming finally happened. Though seeing Nolan beat Mark to a pulp was still grizzly. Also Conquest made a cameo.

Galan007
If the Mark/Nolan fight was that gore-filled, the Conquest fight should be truly epic... thumb up

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Didn't think of this until someone else mentioned it, but is Amber supposed to be a legit crazy b!tch or just poorly written? She called Mark a coward for running away from her perspective, but then claims she always knew he was Invincible all along later on. I just took it as angsty teenager trying to process her emotions. Plus she probably couldn't have just told him out in public why she was mad so had to play up the he ran away angle in the moment to not give away his identity.

cdtm
I like how after all the drama Amber barely question William and Eve knows. Just a quest and acceptance.

Like she figured out Mark sucks at secret identities.

Robtard
Is the Viltrumites going genocidal on themselves to cull the weaker bloodlines out of their society a part of the comic too?


Originally posted by Galan007
If the Mark/Nolan fight was that gore-filled, the Conquest fight should be truly epic... thumb up

That was the old ass Viltrumite, right?

Robtard
Originally posted by Newjak
I just took it as angsty teenager trying to process her emotions. Plus she probably couldn't have just told him out in public why she was mad so had to play up the he ran away angle in the moment to not give away his identity.

Eh, maybe. Seemed like lazy writing though.

cdtm
Originally posted by Robtard
Is the Viltrumites going genocidal on themselves to cull the weaker bloodlines out of their society a part of the comic too?




That was the old ass Viltrumite, right?

Yeah, with the cyborg arm.

Newjak
Originally posted by Robtard
Eh, maybe. Seemed like lazy writing though. I would agree it wasn't the strongest moment on the show.

Galan007
Originally posted by Robtard
Is the Viltrumites going genocidal on themselves to cull the weaker bloodlines out of their society a part of the comic too?

That was the old ass Viltrumite, right? Yeah. However, there's a little more to that side of the story, involving a virus that affects Viltrumites specifically. We should learn more about it in later seasons(which have already been greenlit btw.)

Yeah, this guy:
https://imagecomics.fandom.com/wiki/Conquest
(We actually caught a glimpse of him in the finale flashback.)

He's an older Viltrumite, but stupidly powerful and violent... second only to Thragg at this point.

Robtard
I read about the virus. I didn't see anything about the culling though.

Really looking forward to Season 2. That old dude looks badass.

How do the Viltrumites choose a planet to "assimilate"? Random, or is there some set of protocols, or something else?

Galan007
Oh yeah, the culling happened as described. The virus came later.

The battle between Mark and Conquest should legitimately make the 'fight' with Nolan look like two children rough housing. Should be an absolute gore fest. thumb up

Hm. I don't know if it was actually stated *how* they selected which worlds to assimilate into the Viltrumite empire. I always sort of assumed that any and all worlds with sentient life were on the table, as the Viltrumites essentially wanted to conquer ALL. Not sure if there were any strict prerequisites in place. mmm

Robtard
Can't wait.

Ah, thanks. Was just curious if there was some lore behind that.

cdtm
Originally posted by Robtard
I read about the virus. I didn't see anything about the culling though.

Really looking forward to Season 2. That old dude looks badass.

How do the Viltrumites choose a planet to "assimilate"? Random, or is there some set of protocols, or something else?




https://2.bp.blogspot.com/zWsfodL9FSTjnAsKzjn_wjZZgLxx-gqEVL-xJ4OPDYRDzKpPfG57cmeDAj-FzvXKPkBl-kEYLGap=s0


Pretty much any planet they can use, that isn't able to resist them.

Nolan also claimed they would pillage Earth of its natural resources and leave it for dead eventually, so not certain why their progress even matters. Not like they need weapons, or any sort of architects or even slave labor..


I don't think Kirkman really thought it through, to be honest.

Robtard
So it seems they choose planets that are at a certain level of advancement and defense capabilities.

I like how the "global watchtower" looks a lot like the Death Star.

cdtm
Re-watching.


If it wasn't for the mass murder attempts, would be hard seeing Doctor Seismic as a villian. laughing out loud

cdtm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/invincible-season-2-villain-cecil-theory-evidence/amp/

Cecil theorized as season 2 villian.


If it follows the comic, it could happen. The thing is, Cecil was essentially smart about how he did his morally gray schtick. He reformed villians while keeping them under his thumb, and ended up doing a lot of good. Mark eventually came around to his way of thinking, except he was really stupid about it. The end result was a lot of deaths and damage to cities.

A roundabout way of saying Mark himself might be a villain.

Epicurus
Great show

Will be enjoying season 2 when it releases.

Darth Thor
Just caught up. What a finale.

Think I will purposely stay ignorant of the comics for now as im enjoying all the twists and turns.

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