ROTJ Sidious vs Vader, Yoda and Windu.

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Darthadi
All members of the team are in their primes. (Canon).

Forschbewithu
Team. Definitely.

Chosen_Sith
Before the last comic I would say team. After the last comic? Sidious. Canon Vader is a monster. Possibly on the level of Yoda. Casually Sidious took away his lightsaber, gripped him with the force choking him, and broke each limb in the force as he was helpless. ESB Sidious being able ti make Vader that much of a joke.. yeah I don't see the team winning. Since ROTJ Sidious is likely even more powerful.

Total Warrior
Vader is a non factor. Not sure if Yoda can carry his team

Darthadi
After the last comic Palps wins easly. Vader is in the same tier as Yoda and he got stomped

Darthadi
Now granted, this version of Vader has wallowed in grief as per Palpatine himself, but it's hard to belive that he would be that far weaker than prime Vader.

Lord Stark
The team takes it, I never was convinced Vader was on Yoda & Windu's tier. I also don't really think Sidious grows that much in power from ROTS to the OT.

Darthadi
Why not? He had 20+ years of power growth and time to study the force without the jedi interfering.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Darthadi
Why not? He had 20+ years of power growth and time to study the force without the jedi interfering.

Because I don't see that as being more of a boost than the boost he'd get from the eradication of the Jedi and the tilting of the galactic force to the DS.

Darthadi
Let's put it this way. Do you think that ROTS Sidious can do to Anskin what ESB Sidious did to Vader?
Keep in mind thst in canon Vader>Anakin

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Darthadi
Let's put it this way. Do you think that ROTS Sidious can do to Anskin what ESB Sidious did to Vader?
Keep in mind thst in canon Vader>Anakin


Yeah, I imagine that fight going very similarly to TCWs vision. 1:52
ctN5s8z3E8E&ab

Darthadi
Well, i disagree. I think Anakin is somehow close to ROTS Sidious based on his fight with Dooku and Vader>Anakin yet ESB Sidious stomped Vader

Galan007
Palpatine wins.

Chosen_Sith
Originally posted by Lord Stark
The team takes it, I never was convinced Vader was on Yoda & Windu's tier. I also don't really think Sidious grows that much in power from ROTS to the OT.

I don't see anything Windu has or does that puts him on the level of Vader's best feats in Canon. Vader has so many feats that puts Windu's telekinetic and combat feats to shame.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Darthadi
Well, i disagree. I think Anakin is somehow close to ROTS Sidious based on his fight with Dooku and Vader>Anakin yet ESB Sidious stomped Vader

The same Dooku Sidious telekinetically throttled from across the galaxy? I think it's pretty consistent with Sidious' feats.

Darthadi
Originally posted by Lord Stark
The same Dooku Sidious telekinetically throttled from across the galaxy? I think it's pretty consistent with Sidious' feats.
Dooku was kneeling. Why you assume he defended himself

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Darthadi
Dooku was kneeling. Why you assume he defended himself

Because Dooku isn't a fool and is one of the most powerful force users in the mythos.

Galan007
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because Dooku isn't a fool I agree.

This is also why I don't think Dooku would have tried to actively defend against/counter Palpatine's choke, and risk incurring his full wrath.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Galan007
I agree.

This is also why I don't think Dooku would have tried to actively defend against/counter Palpatine's choke, and risk incurring his full wrath.

What exactly would Palpatine do if Dooku defended himself? Dooku was still an essential pawn in his game at that point.

qwertyuiop1998
Team
If Vader could throw Palpatine to the main reaction by sacrificing himself. Then Vader should be able to temporarily restrain Palpatine and Windu and Yoda kill Palpatine while he being restrained by Vader
Though Vader probably wouldn't survive

Galan007
Originally posted by Lord Stark
What exactly would Palpatine do if Dooku defended himself? Dooku was still an essential pawn in his game at that point. Torture the hell out of him for 'challenging' his power?

*I'm not saying that Palpatine couldn't have still owned Dooku even if he was actively defending himself, btw. Just saying that I don't think Dooku was doing so in that moment.

Chosen_Sith
Originally posted by Lord Stark
What exactly would Palpatine do if Dooku defended himself? Dooku was still an essential pawn in his game at that point.

To be fair in regards to this discussion Dooku didn't know he was essential. Palpatine always made sure his pawns knew or at least felt they could easily be replaced.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Galan007
Torture the hell out of him for 'challenging' his power?

*I'm not saying that Palpatine couldn't have still owned Dooku even if he was actively defending himself, btw. Just saying that I don't think Dooku was doing so in that moment.

Which still implies he could do so from across the galaxy no? Unless you think Sidious would go on a vacation to Serenno just to whoop Dooku's ass.

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
To be fair in regards to this discussion Dooku didn't know he was essential. Palpatine always made sure his pawns knew or at least felt they could easily be replaced.

True, but Dooku for the most part thought the plan was still for him to be a huge part of the new order.

Galan007
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which still implies he could do so from across the galaxy no? Unless you think Sidious would go on a vacation to Serenno just to whoop Dooku's ass. I mean, Palpatine went on a vacation to Mandalore just to personally handle Maul/Savage when he believed they were rivals(and Dooku > either of them.) So I don't think it would be completely ooc for him to travel to Serenno if Dooku had been purposefully trying to undermine his power during that 'lesson'. /shrug

As mentioned, we obviously know that RotS Palpatine >> RotS Dooku. I just don't think Dooku was actively trying to fight against/resist his Master in that particular instance.

Just my opinion.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, Palpatine went on a vacation to Mandalore just to personally handle Maul/Savage when he believed they were rivals(and Dooku > either of them.) So I don't think it would be completely ooc for him to travel to Serenno if Dooku had been purposefully trying to undermine his power during that 'lesson'. /shrug

As mentioned, we obviously know that RotS Palpatine >> RotS Dooku. I just don't think Dooku was actively trying to fight against/resist his Master in that particular instance.

Just my opinion.

I think it can be argued. I honestly just think Palpatine could likey do that to Dooku in person, but it'd open him up to severe punishment if he's dueling someone else. I also think TCW vision reflects pretty well what would happen if ROTS Sidious fought with ROTS Anakin. It has Anakin defeating Dooku in ~30 seconds (which I think is realistic if Rex just got killed in front of his eyes), then getting totally trounced by Sidious.

Inedian
Vader didn't even want to put up a fight or defend against Palpatine in Darth Vader #6.

Galan007
Vader was trying to defend against Palpatine's lightning initially(Palpatine even commented on it):
https://i.ibb.co/Dt83hy3/Star-Wars-Darth-Vader-2020-006-002.jpg
It's just that Palpatine's lightning has evidently evolved to the point where it can no longer be blocked with a lightsaber.

But after Vader's saber was stripped from him, there was really nothing he could do but get raped.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Galan007
Vader was trying to defend against Palpatine's lightning initially(Palpatine even commented on it):
https://i.ibb.co/Dt83hy3/Star-Wars-Darth-Vader-2020-006-002.jpg
It's just that Palpatine's lightning has evidently evolved to the point where it can no longer be blocked with a lightsaber.

But after Vader's saber was stripped from him, there was really nothing he could do but get raped.

But it does seem Palpatine is attacking the hilt not the blade. The top portion of the saber isn't deflecting lightning.

Galan007
The art leaves it somewhat ambiguous, but imo, Palpatine's lightning was initially striking Vader's saber, then just started bypassing it entirely...

First panel- the lightning hits Vader's saber and starts crawling into his hands:
https://i.ibb.co/hmsdGCs/1.jpg
*Palpatine even comments on Vader actively defending himself.


Second Panel- the lightning starts crawling up Vader's arms:
https://i.ibb.co/nQkNWX7/2.jpg


Third panel- the lightning is up to Vader's shoulders:
https://i.ibb.co/x7fJNbH/3.jpg


Fourth panel- Palpatine stops the barrage and Vader's entire body is smoking:
https://i.ibb.co/wSj11PV/4.jpg

Inedian
Originally posted by Galan007
Vader was trying to defend against Palpatine's lightning initially(Palpatine even commented on it):
https://i.ibb.co/Dt83hy3/Star-Wars-Darth-Vader-2020-006-002.jpg
It's just that Palpatine's lightning has evidently evolved to the point where it can no longer be blocked with a lightsaber.

But after Vader's saber was stripped from him, there was really nothing he could do but get raped.

He did defend instinctly of course, but still Vader just didn't try or had intention of fighting back. He just didn't. Palpatine should win in any case, but what happened in this issue just wasn't that relevant. Vader just wasn't trying.

And it seems Vader suits just makes him vulnerable to lighting, that is still the case with his suit.

When Vader comes with full intention and determination to put Palpatine down, that will be serious. Problem with Vader was that he never found a real reason to rebel, it was like he never cared... when Luke came he was also constantly fighting within himself.

And the whole point of issue is that Vader is somehow losing it and Palpatine wants to bring him back to embrace dark side fully and to return him to his form or even stronger. Vader head was confused to the core and Palpatine knew it.

It was always somehow in the air that Palpatine was stronger than Vader, but Vader had far greater depth in power and connection to the force, which was never fully embraced. That was always in the air.

So i think we won't see Vader threating Palpatine power wise.

Galan007
Originally posted by Inedian
And it seems Vader suits just makes him vulnerable to lighting, that is still the case with his suit. I honestly don't think lightning is akin to Vader Kryptonite at all.

Vader still managed to walk all the way up the stairwell towards Palpatine, despite getting raped by lightning the entire time -- and even after that, he continued fighting.

Originally posted by Inedian
So i think we won't see Vader threating Palpatine power wise. Of course not. Palpatine has always kept the power advantage over Vader.

Psychotron
Originally posted by Galan007
The art leaves it somewhat ambiguous, but imo, Palpatine's lightning was initially striking Vader's saber, then just started bypassing it entirely...

First panel- the lightning hits Vader's saber and starts crawling into his hands:
https://i.ibb.co/hmsdGCs/1.jpg
*Palpatine even comments on Vader actively defending himself.


Second Panel- the lightning starts crawling up Vader's arms:
https://i.ibb.co/nQkNWX7/2.jpg


Third panel- the lightning is up to Vader's shoulders:
https://i.ibb.co/x7fJNbH/3.jpg


Fourth panel- Palpatine stops the barrage and Vader's entire body is smoking:
https://i.ibb.co/wSj11PV/4.jpg

And then Rey casually blocked the lightning of an even stronger version of Sidious with her lightsaber lmao.

**** the sequels.

Darthadi
She was amped

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Psychotron
And then Rey casually blocked the lightning of an even stronger version of Sidious with her lightsaber lmao.

**** the sequels.

Of the many, many, many legitimate criticisms to make about the sequels, this isn't one of them honestly.

The movie, the movie's two novelizations, multiple entries in the StarWars.com databank, and finally the recently-released canon reference guide called the Star Wars Book all repeatedly reaffirm that Rey was (1) amped by the power of all past Jedi and (2) killed by the effort needed to deflect the Emperor's power, despite that amp.

NTJack0
Originally posted by Psychotron
And then Rey casually blocked the lightning of an even stronger version of Sidious with her lightsaber lmao.

**** the sequels. That was a once in a lifetime boost for Rey, normally she's trash tier as we all know.

Psychotron
Originally posted by Darthadi
She was amped

So was he.

Lord Stark
Originally posted by Psychotron
So was he.

But even in canon all the Jedi>all the Sith make sense. There were 1000 years where the Jedi outnumbered the Sith ~5,000 to 1.

Inedian
Originally posted by Psychotron
And then Rey casually blocked the lightning of an even stronger version of Sidious with her lightsaber lmao.

**** the sequels.

Did the Anakin lightsaber sword play any special role of her blocking Sidious lightning?

StiltmanFTW
To be fair, she had two sabers. Very lazily written "fight", still.

Inedian
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
To be fair, she had two sabers. Very lazily written "fight", still.

Yes, but it was still Anakin sword and expansion of Anakin sword because of duo in the force or something. It makes me sick even remembering Episode IX.

Galan007
Originally posted by Inedian
Did the Anakin lightsaber sword play any special role of her blocking Sidious lightning? Not the lightsaber itself, no.

Inedian
Originally posted by Galan007
Not the lightsaber itself, no.

Cool thumb up

Psychotron
Originally posted by Lord Stark
But even in canon all the Jedi>all the Sith make sense. There were 1000 years where the Jedi outnumbered the Sith ~5,000 to 1.

Okay, but the ancient Sith were basically an entire planet of dark force users. So at one point there were hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Sith.

Forschbewithu
Palpatine throttled Vader while he was fighting royal guards. It seemed like Palpatine caught Vader off guard, as that's how most tk attacks seem to happen (ex. Maul using a well-timed push on Obi-Wan, sending him down the shaft in TPM).

If Vader and Palp were to square off with each other both battle ready, I don't think Palp could immediately break through Vader's force shield. He may, however, be able to break through his lightsaber defense with lightening like he did in the comic. But again, I'd like to see Vader TRULY battle ready, not caught off guard or have it be Palpatine + red guards vs Vader.

Either way, Vader would be a good fight alone for Palpatine. Throw in Mace and Yoda it's straight up overkill.

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