Originally posted by Darthadi
Well, i disagree that Palpatine's potential is even close to Anakin's. Rey's stupid growth was caused by the Dyad (she downloaded everything from Kylo). Anakin had Father level potential which is massively above Sheev's or any other character. The Dyad(ie. downloading Kylo's knowledge) helped account for Rey's growth in the days between TFA and TLJ, but I'm talking about her continued growth in the year between TLJ and RoS. Stupid as it is, the girl had massive potential because of her Palpatine heritage -- that potential is what made her such a mary sue(#TheForceIsFemale BS notwithstanding.)
Anakin would have been equal to the Father while on Mortis(ie. THE most powerful Force nexus in canon.) We have no clue how powerful he would have become within the mortal realm and away from a nexus that powerful. Even the Father himself, while undoubtedly powerful within the mortal realm, explicitly took his children to Mortis because it was the *only* place where he could control them. So clearly even his power while on Mortis was FAR beyond what it was in the mortal realm... But that's neither here nor there.
At the end of the day, all we really know about Anakin's potential is that he could have surpassed Palpatine/Yoda at *some* point, given the opportunity... Though you could argue that Vader may have still surpassed the level of RotS Palpatine and RotS Yoda by Rebels/ANH, but I digress. /shrug
Anyway, my only point is that based on what has been stated/implied in canon, the potential of the Palpatines seems to be in the same ballpark as the potential of the Skywalkers. Of course Skywalker potential is still greater, but not insurmountably so, imo.
Originally posted by Darthadi
My point is that Anakin before Mustafar had even less knowledge than after, yet his growth was massive enough for Palpatine to admit he would be surpassed while after Mustafar that was no longer possible as we saw in the recent comic. Anakin always had the potential to surpass Palpatine IF he could have ever reached his potential(not denying that)... But again, Palpatine would have logically never allowed Anakin/Vader to surpass him.
Even Lord Momin mused that Palpatine was keeping knowledge hidden from Vader, and hoarding it for himself(which we now know was true.) Hence why Palpatine's power continued growing exponentially in the time between RotS and RotJ, while Vader's growth was much more neutered.
Originally posted by Darthadi
Anakin grew more in 3 years (while having kess knowledge) than he did in the next 20. Dunno about that. Clearly Vader's power/skill grew tremendously after the events of RotS.
Even recent guidebooks have Yoda and Mace as the top two duelists in the Jedi Order as of RotS, while other guidebooks have Vader above Palpatine as a duelist. So based on that we can say that as a swordsman: Vader > Palpatine ~/> Yoda > Mace > Anakin.
Then you have other, far more esoteric showings, like Vader imprisoning GI's spirit in a temple, and using it as his personal guard/plaything. And of course, Vader's displays of more basic abilities(like TK) absolutely blow Anakin's out of the water.
tl;dr
Vader's power increased significantly after RotS... But Palpatine's power simply increased more, for reasons mentioned above.
Originally posted by Darthadi
It's not clear if Sidious never wanting to be surpassed was a thing as early as ROTS. Or maybe he planned to take over Anakin's body somehow so he wasn't worried about being surpassed.
Even in legends Sheev's endgame was the same yet he tried to take both Anakin and Luke as apprentices.
Sidious's motives were never very clear, but he still searched for someone more powerful than him. The RoS novel implies that Palpatine tried(and failed) to form a Dyad with Anakin, and planned to transfer his essence into Luke. That could very well be the reason why he wanted them as apprentices.
As mentioned, canon indicates that Palpatine never really planned on being surpassed/replaced by an apprentice at all.
Originally posted by Darthadi
That being said we obviously have different opinions here so maybe it's beter if we agree to disagree for now Didn't see this until after.
Fair enough.