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Endgame Doctor Strange
All feats for WandaVision are applicable/Endgame Wanda

Who wins

Well, if we take her WandaVision feats at face value for the sake of this match then her powers have evolved into straight up reality warping, being able to transform/transmute objects, conjure things from nothing, shunt people out of her universe etc. So, probably her under those stips, especially if she's in Endgame rage mode. Because she seems able to do things with just thoughts as opposed to Strange who generally needs to perform different hand gestures etc. to achieve his feats.

I'll wait till Wandavision is over before including feats from the show, just to make sure we have proper context. So I'll use Endgame Wanda instead.

With that said, I'm leaning more towards Wanda. Or at least, unless Strange just banishes her to the mirror dimension.

But if we take BFR off the table then I just consider Wanda's skillset better for a straight-up fight. Remember that Dr. Strange did lose to Ebony Maw. And while Wanda doesn't quite have the same fine control as Maw, she does seem to have more raw power plus shields to boot.

Strange shields/ mirror dimension can handle Endgame Wanda's offense, It took a blast from the power stone easily, but I can't say the same for Wanda's shields.
If Strange throws the Mirror dimension at her , what's she gonna do?
Or pulls Wanda into the ground like he did those goons in Endgame.

Wanda takes this

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Strange shields/ mirror dimension can handle Endgame Wanda's offense, It took a blast from the power stone easily, but I can't say the same for Wanda's shields.
If Strange throws the Mirror dimension at her , what's she gonna do?
Or pulls Wanda into the ground like he did those goons in Endgame.

I think the issue is that Wanda's offense is not exactly direct attacks, and I'm unsure how Strange can use his shields against them. Like, if Wanda tries to crush Strange like she did Thanos, how exactly are Strange's shields going to block that?

That said, Wanda's shields will also have trouble taking Strange's attacks, just that majority of Strange's attacks seem more geared towards restraining and containing an enemy instead of outright destroying them.

Unless we see more in WandaVision, Wanda doesn't have a way to counteract the mirror dimension but outside of BFR, I'm having trouble seeing Strange winning a direct fight.

Wanda's shields aren't actually that bad as of Endgame. The one she threw up against Thanos' ship blast was done at the last moment, as she'd been focused on him at that point. And while the blast did send her flying, we later see during the Girl Power pose that she is pretty much physically unharmed, and those blasts were even taking out Leviathans. The sorcerers also mostly had to overlap their shields to take the hits:

https://i.imgur.com/u60fl3G.mp4

Also, OP says all feats from WandaVision are applicable (even though I personally think it's too soon), so those feats can be included in the debate, as per the stips.

Thinking about it though, Wanda missed a great opportunity in Endgame. Instead of dropping Thanos to throw up a shield she should have just used his body as a meat-shield instead. Not exactly heroic, but fair under the circumstances IMO. But then people rarely fight intelligently while consumed by anger.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, if we take her WandaVision feats at face value


Off topic Im curious if Vision could run at super speeds in the real world.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Off topic Im curious if Vision could run at super speeds in the real world.

Theoretically, his computer brain (powered by an infinity stone) should be able to process information at a far faster rate than the human brain. He should be able to see, hear and think about things even if they're happening at super speed. The question is whether his mechanical body can also react at the same speeds.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The question is whether his mechanical body can also react at the same speeds.


And if his body can move at those speeds like the show has shown.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Off topic Im curious if Vision could run at super speeds in the real world.

This is why I feel kind of sketchy about using the WandaVision feats yet. The OP specifically included them here, but there's still so much we don't know regarding the wider context. I mean is that version of Vision even real to begin with, or something Wanda conjured up, or something someone else created to help trap her in the weird reality limbo they appear stuck in at the moment?

But it would be super weird if he could move and react that fast but they've never shown it until now. On the flip side, it could be a case of him pushing/testing the limits of his body and getting better at extracting the best performance from his physiology. But I think we need more information before we can say anything for sure.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This is why I feel kind of sketchy about using the WandaVision feats yet. The OP specifically included them here, but there's still so much we don't know regarding the wider context. I mean is that version of Vision even real to begin with, or something Wanda conjured up, or something someone else created to help trap her in the weird reality limbo they appear stuck in at the moment?

But it would be super weird if he could move and react that fast but they've never shown it until now. On the flip side, it could be a case of him pushing/testing the limits of his body and getting better at extracting the best performance from his physiology. But I think we need more information before we can say anything for sure.

If we take Wandavision feats at face value, then Wanda is a flat-out reality warper and can even rewind time. That would make her pretty OP in these matches.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If we take Wandavision feats at face value, then Wanda is a flat-out reality warper and can even rewind time. That would make her pretty OP in these matches.

To be fair, her comic counterpart can also be extremely OP at times. And the interviews with Feige in the past have suggested that she has a lot more going for her than what was shown in the films, but she lacked both the experience and confidence to further explore her powers.

But, as mentioned previously, I don't really feel too comfortable using those feats. The "Who is doing this to you?" line we've gotten a few times implies that there are other external forces also at work, though it could also just be a case of someone else manipulating her into using her powers in new ways. We just don't know yet. Only reason I brought them up in the first place is because the OP made a specific point to include them.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, it might be the case that it's a Vision from an alternate universe/reality where Thanos never ripped the Mind Stone from his head, so it could be real.


I suppose. Story wise I feel they need to permanently close off access to the multiverse at some point (maybe in Dr. Strange), otherwise its just too easy a plot device to bring anyone (or anything) back.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I suppose. Story wise I feel they need to permanently close off access to the multiverse at some point (maybe in Dr. Strange), otherwise its just too easy a plot device to bring anyone (or anything) back.

I'm not too sure about them closing it off any time soon when they're only just starting to explore it in the new MCU phase. However, they could attach some kind of narrative high stakes/risk to it to prevent it from being overused. Like traveling in between universes could create some kind of cosmic imbalance or attract the wrath of evil multidimensional creatures or something.

So, based on the latest episode, it does appear that Wanda is using her powers to cause everything, which means they decided to give her a big upgrade after Endgame. Mirror Dimension BFR should still be on the table for Strange though as the town still appears to be on MCU Earth. Wanda just put some kind of weird hex bubble around it.

Wanda unless Strange can activate the time stone in time.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So, based on the latest episode, it does appear that Wanda is using her powers to cause everything, which means they decided to give her a big upgrade after Endgame. Mirror Dimension BFR should still be on the table for Strange though as the town still appears to be on MCU Earth. Wanda just put some kind of weird hex bubble around it.
Interesting. Need to catch up w. this.

Originally posted by riv6672
Interesting. Need to catch up w. this.

I am still partially speculating though. The last episode did very strongly imply that it's all Wanda's doing, but I still think she's being manipulated by another external influence. And while the town does still appear to be on MCU Earth, it's impossible to see what's going on in the town past the barrier around it without using specific equipment. So, it could also be sitting on an alternate plane of existence, in which case, if Wanda can move things between different planes or dimensions, Mirror Dimension BFR also might not work. So, who knows?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am still partially speculating though. The last episode did very strongly imply that it's all Wanda's doing, but I still think she's being manipulated by another external influence. And while the town does still appear to be on MCU Earth, it's impossible to see what's going on in the town past the barrier around it without using specific equipment. So, it could also be sitting on an alternate plane of existence, in which case, if Wanda can move things between different planes or dimensions, Mirror Dimension BFR also might not work. So, who knows?

She also has telepathic control like she had with Hulk. Except now she fan manipulate everyone in town to believe whatever she wants. The residents even think they're in a different town in a differentiation from where they actually are.

Well, she'd already displayed psychic mass-manipulation with the Sokovian people in AoU during the evacuation, but nothing this elaborate or complex.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, she'd already displayed psychic mass-manipulation with the Sokovian people in AoU during the evacuation, but nothing this elaborate or complex.

Yeah she was just compelling them to go in one direction. This is her directly altering multiple memories and thought processes of separate individuals all at the same time.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah she was just compelling them to go in one direction. This is her directly altering multiple memories and thought processes of separate individuals all at the same time.

They're making Wanda OP as fuk lol. She casually mindraped a couple dozen trained SWORD agents like nothing after stopping a drone strike. And it's confirmed she is indeed warping reality, as shown with the altered clothing, and not just casting illusions. And it's also now confirmed in-universe, not just per word of Feige, that she would have killed Thanos' ass if not for his desperation move in EG. I do still wonder if there's someone else involved though. She seemed genuinely surprised to see Evan Peters Quicksilver at the end, though it could just be that her power is operating partly subconsciously. At this point, you'd basically need someone like him, a powerful speedster, to take her out via speedblitz before she can use her powers. Or an even more powerful reality warper.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
They're making Wanda OP as fuk lol. She casually mindraped a couple dozen trained SWORD agents like nothing after stopping a drone strike. And it's confirmed she is indeed warping reality, as shown with the altered clothing, and not just casting illusions. And it's also now confirmed in-universe, not just per word of Feige, that she would have killed Thanos' ass if not for his desperation move in EG. I do still wonder if there's someone else involved though. She seemed genuinely surprised to see Evan Peters Quicksilver at the end, though it could just be that her power is operating partly subconsciously. At this point, you'd basically need someone like him, a powerful speedster, to take her out via speedblitz before she can use her powers. Or an even more powerful reality warper.

Just watched it. Apparently the plan was for Wanda and for Wanda only to be anywhere near her comic counterpart. Nobody else in the MCU aside from maybe Spidey after FFH are even remotely close to just how awesome they can get in the comics.

Originally posted by KingD19
Just watched it. Apparently the plan was for Wanda and for Wanda only to be anywhere near her comic counterpart. Nobody else in the MCU aside from maybe Spidey after FFH are even remotely close to just how awesome they can get in the comics.

Also, I wonder if they will show how she managed to "resurrect" Vision without the Mind Stone. And on a more general note, I liked the little nods they gave to things like Lagos, for example, where she accidentally contributed to the death of several civilians in CA:CW, with the "For when you make a mess you didn't mean to" comment.

But yeah, seems they're hammering in that the two current top dogs among the Avengers are Wanda and Captain Marvel, given she was also brought up in the context of potentially beating Thanos and both being Infinity Stone-powered.

The Lagos thing always bothered me. Aside from being more powerful, or knowing beforehand just how much explosive that guy had on him, there was nothing she could've done different. The explosion was simply more powerful than her ability to contain it. But nobody ever asks "what would've happened if she didn't trap him in a bubble and tried to move him to a safe distance before he blew up?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
They're making Wanda OP as fuk lol. She casually mindraped a couple dozen trained SWORD agents like nothing after stopping a drone strike. And it's confirmed she is indeed warping reality, as shown with the altered clothing, and not just casting illusions. And it's also now confirmed in-universe, not just per word of Feige, that she would have killed Thanos' ass if not for his desperation move in EG. I do still wonder if there's someone else involved though. She seemed genuinely surprised to see Evan Peters Quicksilver at the end, though it could just be that her power is operating partly subconsciously. At this point, you'd basically need someone like him, a powerful speedster, to take her out via speedblitz before she can use her powers. Or an even more powerful reality warper.

I remember reading a rumor about a year or so back that the MCU had originally planned to make Captain Marvel the flagship character of the MCU which is why they overpowered her, but due to the poor reception of audiences they decided to switch to Wanda instead.

I have no idea if that rumor is true or not, but seeing what they did to Wanda in this series it kinda fits. All I know is that after last night's episode, Wanda just jumped to the top of MCU food chain. You'd almost need a complete IG to beat her at this point.

Originally posted by KingD19
The Lagos thing always bothered me. Aside from being more powerful, or knowing beforehand just how much explosive that guy had on him, there was nothing she could've done different. The explosion was simply more powerful than her ability to contain it. But nobody ever asks "what would've happened if she didn't trap him in a bubble and tried to move him to a safe distance before he blew up?

Agreed. It's the same with the events of NY. They blame the Avengers for the destruction without ever thinking about what would have happened if they weren't there.

Ultron and Sokovia was on them though. But Lagos was definitely not Wanda's fault.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I remember reading a rumor about a year or so back that the MCU had originally planned to make Captain Marvel the flagship character of the MCU which is why they overpowered her, but due to the poor reception of audiences they decided to switch to Wanda instead.

I have no idea if that rumor is true or not, but seeing what they did to Wanda in this series it kinda fits. All I know is that after last night's episode, Wanda just jumped to the top of MCU food chain. You'd almost need a complete IG to beat her at this point.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this is true. You just have to look at how fans respond to the two characters to see that people have a lot more love for Wanda than they do for Carol. I've seen very few people who genuinely like Captain Marvel. There definitely are some, but it's mostly mixed to negative reactions. In comparison, Wanda actually has a rather sizable fan base. But I suppose that's partly due to the fact that Wanda actually had proper development and has gone through a lot. We've seen her learn, grow, make mistakes, get hurt etc. along the way. And even now, she's hardly some perfect Mary Sue who always does the right thing. And that makes her more likable and relatable to a lot of people.

Originally posted by KingD19
The Lagos thing always bothered me. Aside from being more powerful, or knowing beforehand just how much explosive that guy had on him, there was nothing she could've done different. The explosion was simply more powerful than her ability to contain it. But nobody ever asks "what would've happened if she didn't trap him in a bubble and tried to move him to a safe distance before he blew up?

Well, for a start, Cap would probably be dead. He was right in front of Rumlow when that went off and there's a reason he blocks explosions with his shield, even smaller ones than that. Which means Bucky would probably have been killed in CA:CW, Steve wouldn't have been there to help Vision and Wanda in IW, fight in Wakanda or go in the Time Heist on EG, wield Mjolnir etc. So, yeah, just Steve's absence would have had major negative ripple effects throughout the MCU and probably resulted in way more death than what occurred in Lagos.

Wanda, we've seen so little of Strange without the Time Stone.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Wanda, we've seen so little of Strange without the Time Stone.

Well, good news is that if this really is all purely Wanda's doing in WandaVision, and there isn't some kind of external influence, then Strange is due for a power up himself in the next Doctor Strange film if he has to deal with her, seeing as she's apparently going to play a big part in there as well. I kind of wonder if the end of WandaVision will tie into or set anything up in that regard.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, good news is that if this really is all purely Wanda's doing in WandaVision, and there isn't some kind of external influence, then Strange is due for a power up himself in the next Doctor Strange film if he has to deal with her, seeing as she's apparently going to play a big part in there as well. I kind of wonder if the end of WandaVision will tie into or set anything up in that regard.

Is it confirmed that Wanda will be up against Strange in a Multiverse of Madness? I certainly agree Strange has the potential to face Wanda, but he will need a serious buff in the sequel.

Seeing Fox's Quicksilver in the MCU is an omen of the upcoming insanity

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, good news is that if this really is all purely Wanda's doing in WandaVision, and there isn't some kind of external influence, then Strange is due for a power up himself in the next Doctor Strange film if he has to deal with her, seeing as she's apparently going to play a big part in there as well. I kind of wonder if the end of WandaVision will tie into or set anything up in that regard. Wasn't it already confirmed that WV would directly lead to Multiverse of Madness?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Wasn't it already confirmed that WV would directly lead to Multiverse of Madness?

Maybe. But I try to avoid those articles because of potential spoilers. There's apparently already some Doctor Strange 2 leak floating around that reveals an important spoiler for WandaVision, so I have made a point not to look so as to keep things mostly a surprise. Speculating is fine but it takes the fun out of it if you already know beforehand.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Is it confirmed that Wanda will be up against Strange in a Multiverse of Madness? I certainly agree Strange has the potential to face Wanda, but he will need a serious buff in the sequel.

Seeing Fox's Quicksilver in the MCU is an omen of the upcoming insanity

Guess I should have chosen my words better. I meant more for him not being overshadowed by her in the same film he'd need to get a power up. But it could also be that he ends up fighting her. As shown in the last episode, she's rather hostile towards people who want to upset her plans at the moment and willing to essentially keep thousands of people hostage to get what she wants.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, if we take her WandaVision feats at face value for the sake of this match then her powers have evolved into straight up reality warping, being able to transform/transmute objects, conjure things from nothing, shunt people out of her universe etc. So, probably her under those stips, especially if she's in Endgame rage mode. Because she seems able to do things with just thoughts as opposed to Strange who generally needs to perform different hand gestures etc. to achieve his feats.

^Pretty much this.

They also noted that she was the one Avenger who could have taken Thanos down. She's the most powerful we've ever seen her now.

Originally posted by Robtard
^Pretty much this.

They also noted that she was the one Avenger who could have taken Thanos down. She's the most powerful we've ever seen her now.

Yeah, it was interesting how they framed the dialogue there as well. Despite bringing up Captain Marvel, the way they chose to word it still implied that Wanda did the best out of everyone. At least that's how it came across to me.

Honestly, as of the last episode, unless Dr Strange gets some onscreen telepathy-type feats in his next film, Wanda could beat him (and most MCU characters for that matter) with just a wave of the hand at this point. Because she was already able to influence people like Cap, Thor, Hulk and Black Widow as a noob in AoU and, as we see, her powers and range have just increased since then.

Originally posted by Robtard
^Pretty much this.

They also noted that she was the one Avenger who could have taken Thanos down. She's the most powerful we've ever seen her now.

Well technically both Captain Marvel and Thor could have taken Thanos down as well, just saying. Probably even Antman if he just stepped on Thanos.

Not that they can compare to Wanda at her current powerlevel anyway.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Guess I should have chosen my words better. I meant more for him not being overshadowed by her in the same film he'd need to get a power up. But it could also be that he ends up fighting her. As shown in the last episode, she's rather hostile towards people who want to upset her plans at the moment and willing to essentially keep thousands of people hostage to get what she wants.

I see. I agree.

WandaVision will set the tone for that movie. I don't think Wanda will be the antagonist, but more of the nexus with the Dr. Strange 2's villain. I'm guessing some surt of multiversal inbalance caused by her actions, which will need undoing by Dr. Strange.

Maybe even the invasion of other dimensions, with potential new villains like the Shuma Gorath.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I see. I agree.

WandaVision will set the tone for that movie. I don't think Wanda will be the antagonist, but more of the nexus with the Dr. Strange 2's villain. I'm guessing some surt of multiversal inbalance caused by her actions, which will need undoing by Dr. Strange.

Maybe even the invasion of other dimensions, with potential new villains like the Shuma Gorath.

Yeah, there are a number of options with Strange in terms of villains that could be brought in due to inter-dimensional/multiversal weirdness. Mordo might also feature somewhere, as they still need to resolve the fact that he was going around draining the magic from others during the post-credits scene of the first film.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, there are a number of options with Strange in terms of villains that could be brought in due to inter-dimensional/multiversal weirdness. Mordo might also feature somewhere, as they still need to resolve the fact that he was going around draining the magic from others during the post-credits scene of the first film.

I feel like they actually messed up with the villain in the first Dr. Strange film. Mordo should have been the main villain there with Dormammu just the one pulling strings. Save Dormammu for a later film. He could have been the next big bad after Thanos and could easily have been the villain behind WandaVision as well.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, it was interesting how they framed the dialogue there as well. Despite bringing up Captain Marvel, the way they chose to word it still implied that Wanda did the best out of everyone. At least that's how it came across to me.

Honestly, as of the last episode, unless Dr Strange gets some onscreen telepathy-type feats in his next film, Wanda could beat him (and most MCU characters for that matter) with just a wave of the hand at this point. Because she was already able to influence people like Cap, Thor, Hulk and Black Widow as a noob in AoU and, as we see, her powers and range have just increased since then.

That's how I took it too, that Wanda > Captain Marvel now.

But it was just people talking their opinions and it's probably situational since this is Wanda's show, so it makes sense she got a powerboost here.

Come Captain Marvel 2, they're going to amp her.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well technically both Captain Marvel and Thor could have taken Thanos down as well, just saying. Probably even Antman if he just stepped on Thanos.

Not that they can compare to Wanda at her current powerlevel anyway.

Fair enough. As I said above, it's the opinion of humans and it makes sense that Wanda is being hyped in a show centered around her.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, there are a number of options with Strange in terms of villains that could be brought in due to inter-dimensional/multiversal weirdness. Mordo might also feature somewhere, as they still need to resolve the fact that he was going around draining the magic from others during the post-credits scene of the first film.

Right! Mordo is still out there. We'll see how Marvel unfold his narrative in the sequel.

It's very unlikely Mordo will be the main villain.

i believe wandavision is setting her up to be the villain in multiverse of madness

I can't see her turning heel, at least not for long.

Originally posted by Robtard
It's very unlikely Mordo will be the main villain.

I doubt Marvel will leave him as a loose end, unless they eliminate him somehow.

He'll likely be a minor villain in DS2 and he will probably either die or go to mystical prison early in the film.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, for a start, Cap would probably be dead. He was right in front of Rumlow when that went off and there's a reason he blocks explosions with his shield, even smaller ones than that. Which means Bucky would probably have been killed in CA:CW, Steve wouldn't have been there to help Vision and Wanda in IW, fight in Wakanda or go in the Time Heist on EG, wield Mjolnir etc. So, yeah, just Steve's absence would have had major negative ripple effects throughout the MCU and probably resulted in way more death than what occurred in Lagos.


Well I dont think anyone would seriously argue killing all those civilians was fine because she saved Cap, who later saved the Universe.

Logically, yes you probably wouldnt go back in time to change that event to Cap dying instead of them. But morally she has to take some heat for straight up throwing a bomb next to a building full of civilians.


Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, it was interesting how they framed the dialogue there as well. Despite bringing up Captain Marvel, the way they chose to word it still implied that Wanda did the best out of everyone. At least that's how it came across to me.




That was hilarious. Framed as if they all watched Endgame then discussed it on a KMC chat board.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well I dont think anyone would seriously argue killing all those civilians was fine because she saved Cap, who later saved the Universe.

Logically, yes you probably wouldnt go back in time to change that event to Cap dying instead of them. But morally she has to take some heat for straight up throwing a bomb next to a building full of civilians.





That was hilarious. Framed as if they all watched Endgame then discussed it on a KMC chat board.


Would you have preferred she kept the bomb next to the civilians on the ground? She had to do something with Rumlow and she had literally seconds to act in a high stress situation. She didn't exactly have time to aim.

Originally posted by KingD19
Would you have preferred she kept the bomb next to the civilians on the ground?


Youre saying that as if Im actively protesting against her.

Point is that bomb wouldnt have killed those specific people if she hadnt thrown him there. So Of course she has to take some heat for that.

Doesnt mean shes a murderer or that the whole thing was her fault. But she was definitely involved in those specific people dying, and will have to take some shit for that.

Whereas if she kept the bomb where it already was then any deaths would have been down solely to Crossbones. And all her contribution would have done is help save lives by limiting the damage by containing it as best she could.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Youre saying that as if Im actively protesting against her.

Point is that bomb wouldnt have killed those specific people if she hadnt thrown him there. So Of course she has to take some heat for that.

Doesnt mean shes a murderer or that the whole thing was her fault. But she was definitely involved in those specific people dying, and will have to take some shit for that.

Whereas if she kept the bomb where it already was then any deaths would have been down solely to Crossbones. And all her contribution would have done is help save lives by limiting the damage by containing it as best she could.

Nah, she shouldn't have taken any heat for it at all. She wasn't the one who detonated the bomb, wasn't even responsible for aggravating the bomber. She took action after the bomb was detonated and her actions limited the casualties to a far lesser number than it should have been. Nobody deserves to get heat for something like that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I feel like they actually messed up with the villain in the first Dr. Strange film. Mordo should have been the main villain there with Dormammu just the one pulling strings. Save Dormammu for a later film. He could have been the next big bad after Thanos and could easily have been the villain behind WandaVision as well.

Well, Marvel Studios usually have a method to their madness. So, hopefully there will be a good payoff for how they decided to handle Mordo. As for Dormammu, yeah, he could have been a big bad, but there are plenty of others in Strange's rogue gallery you could say the same about. Just hope they pick one of the good ones if they do decide to go that route.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nah, she shouldn't have taken any heat for it at all. She wasn't the one who detonated the bomb, wasn't even responsible for aggravating the bomber. She took action after the bomb was detonated and her actions limited the casualties to a far lesser number than it should have been. Nobody deserves to get heat for something like that.

Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel about it. Plus, it wasn't as if she just took some heat. They plastered her all over the news, essentially put her under house arrest and used the event to justify forcing the Sokovia Accords forward.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That was hilarious. Framed as if they all watched Endgame then discussed it on a KMC chat board.

Well, to be fair, most of those organisations probably had satellites and other surveillance tech monitoring the battle.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nah, she shouldn't have taken any heat for it at all. She wasn't the one who detonated the bomb, wasn't even responsible for aggravating the bomber. She took action after the bomb was detonated and her actions limited the casualties to a far lesser number than it should have been. Nobody deserves to get heat for something like that.


How did her actions limit the casualties? She basically threw it straight into a building full of people. So of course if you throw a bomb from one group of civilians to another, you got to answer for what you did.

And the fact that she was shocked and in horror by what she had done shows a lack of control and awareness of what she was doing. Her intentions were obviously right, but her action there was very questionable, hence she of course had to take some flack. As did Steve btw, the experienced soldier who lost control of the situation as soon as he heard the name Bucky.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
How did her actions limit the casualties? She basically threw it straight into a building full of people. So of course if you throw a bomb from one group of civilians to another, you got to answer for what you did.

And the fact that she was shocked and in horror by what she had done shows a lack of control and awareness of what she was doing. Her intentions were obviously right, but her action there was very questionable, hence she of course had to take some flack. As did Steve btw, the experienced soldier who lost control of the situation as soon as he heard the name Bucky.

She didn't throw it INTO a building. She lifted it up in the air where it exploded beside a building. And yes, there were people inside but they were somewhat protected by the concrete walls of the building. We also don't have an idea of how many people were inside that building but based on what we can piece together from the news, I don't believe it was completely jampacked with people.

Not like the way people were jampacked in that marketplace. Dozens and dozens of people were huddled very closely together in that marketplace and had zero protection against that bomb, not even concrete walls. And if that blast was powerful enough to to cause that much destruction through the exterior of a building, imagine what it would have done had it been allowed to explode in a completely open market place.

That's mitigation. Had Wanda done nothing, a lot more people would have died. Because she took action, less people died. She should not take any heat for an action like that. You can say that the Avengers should take some blame for chasing Crossbones and forcing a confrontation, but Wanda personally shouldn't get any blame specifically for the bomb going off.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
As did Steve btw, the experienced soldier who lost control of the situation as soon as he heard the name Bucky.

Just to point out, Steve didn't get anywhere near the heat for Lagos that Wanda did. While he did give himself flack for the incident, and while Lagos was used as the final straw, so to speak, to push the Sokovia Accords, it was hardly the only incident cited. In terms of Lagos, Wanda was the one who was getting singled out by name in the news and had to be sequestered away, with the implication from Tony being that she'd be at risk of getting attacked by civilians if she went out into the public after the news coverage. In comparison, Steve was still able to freely move between different countries and was even allowed to be in the building during Bucky's interrogation turned rampage. So, their experiences after the event were very different.

From the Steve/Wanda bedroom scene in CA:CW:
Wanda: "It's my fault."
Steve: "That's not true."
Wanda: "Turn the TV back on. They're being very specific."

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well technically both Captain Marvel and Thor could have taken Thanos down as well, just saying. Probably even Antman if he just stepped on Thanos.

Not that they can compare to Wanda at her current powerlevel anyway.
Thor could. Captain Marvel ? Not in a million years!
Captain Marvel lacks the firepower to harm Thanos. Her punches are super weak.
Are you guys telling me you didn't see her punch and blast Thanos?

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Thor could. Captain Marvel ? Not in a million years!
Captain Marvel lacks the firepower to harm Thanos. Her punches are super weak.
Are you guys telling me you didn't see her punch and blast Thanos?

I mean, I don't like Captain Marvel, but to be fair she seemed to have been beating up Thanos up until he used the power stone on her. Without the power stone it seems he would have lost.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I mean, I don't like Captain Marvel, but to be fair she seemed to have been beating up Thanos up until he used the power stone on her. Without the power stone it seems he would have lost.
I think you really need to rewatch that scene again. Her punches did absolutely nothing. How was she beating him up again ? By using her two hands against Thanos one hand? Or her thrusters?
I honestly need to know why some people think she was capable of beating Thanos.

Even her full blasts did nothing to a dying Thanos , it didn't even push him back,, until she slammed herself into him. The same dying Thanos was overpowering her leg with one arm.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
I think you really need to rewatch that scene again. Her punches did absolutely nothing. How was she beating him up again ? By using her two hands against Thanos one hand? Or her thrusters?
I honestly need to know why some people think she was capable of beating Thanos.

Even her full blasts did nothing to a dying Thanos , it didn't even push him back,, until she slammed herself into him. The same dying Thanos was overpowering her leg with one arm.

If you're getting rocked by punches, that's not "doing nothing". She was hitting him far more than he was hitting her and he wasn't able to just ignore those blows.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you're getting rocked by punches, that's not "doing nothing". She was hitting him far more than he was hitting her and he wasn't able to just ignore those blows.
Rocked? Where? He was never rocked by her punches.You need to check the scene again. Cap's hammer shots were far better.

The only thing she has is durability probably due to her shields.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Rocked? Where? He was never rocked by her punches.You need to check the scene again. Cap's hammer shots were far better.

The only thing she has is durability probably due to her shields.

Here's the link. Watch it:

https://youtu.be/In8GuMOTe_Y

When someone hits you hard enough that you grunt out in pain or makes you take a step back, that's getting rocked. You wouldn't grunt out in pain if it didn't rock you.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Here's the link. Watch it:

https://youtu.be/In8GuMOTe_Y

When someone hits you hard enough that you grunt out in pain or makes you take a step back, that's getting rocked. You wouldn't grunt out in pain if it didn't rock you.
I think you should watch your own link. The grunt was as a result of Thanos punching Marvel not Marvel's punch lol. Check out Spidey's hits against Thanos. There he grunts.
He took a single step backwards! lol , that's not a promising attack that can lead to a defeat. Her blasts are even more useless.
Cap rocked Thanos with his shots, which even swept him off his feet and had him grunt in real pain.

So No Marvel did not come close to beating Thanos.
Beat? Try hurting.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
I think you should watch your own link. The grunt was as a result of Thanos punching Marvel not Marvel's punch lol. Check out Spidey's hits against Thanos. There he grunts.
He took a single step backwards! lol , that's not a promising attack that can lead to a defeat. Her blasts are even more useless.
Cap rocked Thanos with his shots, which even swept him off his feet and had him grunt in real pain.

So No Marvel did not come close to beating Thanos.
Beat? Try hurting.

Are you saying that Spiderman is somehow stronger than Captain Marvel?

lol.

Your bias is showing. Thanos was getting outpunched and those shots were keeping him off balance. In other words: he was getting rocked.

And yes, Captain Marvel was beating Thanos. Unless you're going to claim that Thanos was beating her?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Are you saying that Spiderman is somehow stronger than Captain Marvel?

lol.

Your bias is showing. Thanos was getting outpunched and those shots were keeping him off balance. In other words: he was getting rocked.

And yes, Captain Marvel was beating Thanos. Unless you're going to claim that Thanos was beating her?
I'm saying those punches were weak. about as effective as Spiderman's hits.

I'm being honest,No bias. Outpunched you say, when Thanos was fighting her with ONE hand. She punched Thanos , Thanos punched back, she punched twice, Thanos flinged her away.

Cap's hits were by far more effective,he still didn't beat Thanos.
One person got KO'd , Guess who it was?

Also Her blasts are no better.

.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
I'm saying those punches were weak. about as effective as Spiderman's hits.

I'm being honest,No bias. Outpunched you say, when Thanos was fighting her with ONE hand. She punched Thanos , Thanos punched back, she punched twice, Thanos flinged her away.

Cap's hits were by far more effective,he still didn't beat Thanos.
One person got KO'd , Guess who it was?

Also Her blasts are no better.

Yes, outpunched. You yourself admitted she landed more punches on Thanos (Thanos didn't land a single punch). That's what outpunched means. And each of those punches were enough to snap Thanos' head back and forth.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, outpunched. You yourself admitted she landed more punches on Thanos (Thanos didn't land a single punch). That's what outpunched means. And each of those punches were enough to snap Thanos' head back and forth.
Just like Spiderman
I like how you ignore all my posts and focus on what little scraps you can hold on to. It's just as if you're arguing just for the sake of argument.

You posted a link that you yourself didn't watch saying Thanos grunts, I showed you he didn't. You turned around to find something else. Carry on.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Just like Spiderman
I like how you ignore all my posts and focus on what little scraps you can hold on to. It's just as if you're arguing just for the sake of argument.

You posted a link that you yourself didn't watch saying Thanos grunts, I showed you he didn't. You turned around to find something else. Carry on.

In other words, you're resorting to insults because you realized Thanos actually was getting outpunched and was getting the worse of that fight. Gotcha.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In other words, you're resorting to insults because you realized Thanos actually was getting outpunched and was getting the worse of that fight. Gotcha.
Insults? Where?
Great, another diversion.

Haha What is worse than getting knocked out?
Admit it CM's punches are as effective as Spiderman's hits. Next time watch your links before posting them lol.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Insults? Where?
Great, another diversion.

Haha What is worse than getting knocked out?
Admit it CM's punches are as effective as Spiderman's hits. Next time watch your links before posting them lol.

Did Thanos knock out CM by outfighting her or by using an Infinity Stone?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Did Thanos knock out CM by outfighting her or by using an Infinity Stone?
And the funny thing is Thanos beat her with one hand. CM is all hype. With girly punches (No offense to the Ladies).