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Seeing as we finally got a full trailer and this is dropping next month, I thought I'd make a thread about it:

IWBsDaFWyTE

Looks like Zemo is back. Wonder how he's walking around free again.

I'm quite interested in this one as I like both these characters.

Someone broke him out or he used his sizeable intelligence to break himself out.

Looks like fun. Will watch.

looks pretty good

didnt see the trailer, did read an article it undoes the endgame ending

does it?

Originally posted by Surtur
didnt see the trailer, did read an article it undoes the endgame ending

does it?


huh

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/falcon-winter-soldier-trailer-breakdown-shield-sam-bucky

That article doesn't mean much. It's just a journalist making a huge speculative leap because of Bucky catching the shield during one shot in the trailer. For all we know, it's just a callback to CA:TWS where Bucky caught Cap's shield the first time Steve threw it at him.

I honestly hope to see a "throwing the shield is hard" training montage. That'd be sweet.

Originally posted by Robtard
Someone broke him out or he used his sizeable intelligence to break himself out.

IOW, he put on a leather jacket and baseball cap and walked out.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That article doesn't mean much. It's just a journalist making a huge speculative leap because of Bucky catching the shield during one shot in the trailer. For all we know, it's just a callback to CA:TWS where Bucky caught Cap's shield the first time Steve threw it at him.

And Civil War where both Cap and Bucky used the shield to take down Tony.


Though in this show, I can see them having a 'who is really worthy of being the next Captain America' angle, at least for a bit. With Sam ultimately getting it as a means to push that you don't need super-powers to be Cap, just have your heart in the right place.

Originally posted by Robtard
And Civil War where both Cap and Bucky used the shield to take down Tony.


Though in this show, I can see them having a 'who is really worthy of being the next Captain America' angle, at least for a bit. With Sam ultimately getting it as a means to push that you don't need super-powers to be Cap, just have your heart in the right place.

Yeah, plus Sam seems to actually be using the shield in combat at the 1:17-1:18 mark in the trailer.

I wonder if US Agent will be stronger than Cap like in comics? Cap is pretty beastly and to make him even stronger would put him at like Luke Cage level or thereabouts.

Originally posted by KingD19
I wonder if US Agent will be stronger than Cap like in comics? Cap is pretty beastly and to make him even stronger would put him at like Luke Cage level or thereabouts.


that might be possible but so far viewing the trailer it seems he might not do any strength feats

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
and this is dropping next month


Sweet.

Cant wait.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
That article doesn't mean much. It's just a journalist making a huge speculative leap because of Bucky catching the shield during one shot in the trailer. For all we know, it's just a callback to CA:TWS where Bucky caught Cap's shield the first time Steve threw it at him.

clip of bucky looks modern tho not old

Originally posted by Surtur
clip of bucky looks modern tho not old

Okay. And? I didn't say flashback. I said callback. As in they are referencing something that happened previously by having it (or something similar) happen again. And as I pointed out, Sam is the one who appears to actually be using the shield in combat at 1:17-1:18 in the trailer.

Though it should be noted that Anthony Mackie, the guy who plays Falcon, said that while Steve chose Sam to be the new Cap in EG, Sam never actually agreed to it in the film. So, maybe Sam is the one struggling with the idea of stepping into Cap's shoes. It is a pretty big legacy to live up to.

Falcon probably throws the Shield to WS when he needs it (remember Cap and WS both throwing it to each other to use against IM), and WS may need to pick it up now and then after Falcon drops it (remember BW picking it up for Cap in AOU).

And lets face it, WS will be far better at throwing and catching the Shield.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Falcon probably throws the Shield to WS when he needs it (remember Cap and WS both throwing it to each other to use against IM), and WS may need to pick it up now and then after Falcon drops it (remember BW picking it up for Cap in AOU).

And lets face it, WS will be far better at throwing and catching the Shield.

Well, yeah, from a purely physical standpoint Bucky is the more logical choice as a replacement, also being a super soldier. But the idea seems to be more focused around the spirit and character of the individual rather than physical capability.

Admittedly, a vibranium shield bash/throw from Bucky using his vibranium arm would probably be pretty devastating to whatever it hits.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Falcon probably throws the Shield to WS when he needs it (remember Cap and WS both throwing it to each other to use against IM), and WS may need to pick it up now and then after Falcon drops it (remember BW picking it up for Cap in AOU).

And lets face it, WS will be far better at throwing and catching the Shield.

They should have a scene where they're at the beach passing the shield back and forth like a frisbee

They should create new characters, like the Autumn Soldier and Spring Soldier.

A couple more TV spots for this:

8crdPDdb7b0

JyrlYjSPlhk

I quite enjoy the chemistry between these two.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I quite enjoy the chemistry between these two.


Yeah will be cool to get a superhero version of a buddy cop movie. Like a Super Lethal Weapon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah will be cool to get a superhero version of a buddy cop movie. Like a Super Lethal Weapon.

Yeah, and there are supposed to be a few other characters and cameos as well. I saw War Machine in some of the other footage, and we know Sharon Carter is going to play a role too.

On a side note, that look on Bucky's face when Sam makes the hat comment is priceless.

They're dropping a lot of short teasers now though. I really wonder WTF is the story around what's shown from 0:08 onward.

fqPsZlOBQok

Final Trailer

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Thought the 1st episode was excellent.

Love that they introduced Johnny Walker.

pretty decent start...


i feel the thunderbolts will be introduced and formed

Decent start IMO. It was a bit slow in parts, but I understand why. They wanted to give us a firm idea of where both characters are at in their lives after Endgame before jumping into the main story.

I really enjoyed it, good combo of action and building.

This also felt like it had more money thrown into it than WandaVision.

You're very agreeable

New episode was f*cking amazing. We get to see Isaiah Bradley the black man who replaced Steve after he got frozen. He was the only survivor of horrible Super Soldier experiments done on black men, and after serving his country was hidden away and imprisoned because they couldn't handle publicly proclaiming a Black Cap. And as Captain America he was strong enough to rip Bucky's arm in half. Even in his old age, he still has incredible strength and would probably wipe the floor with anyone like M'Baku level and down. We also get confirmation that Power Broker can give people at least Super Soldier(Bucky, Steve, T'Challa) level powers and that probably means Walker's gonna get a few doses to get to US Agent levels.

We also see just how much race plays into the world even today.

great episode... wyatt russell is gonna be awesome as he progresses thru the series

Originally posted by KingD19
New episode was f*cking amazing. We get to see Isaiah Bradley the black man who replaced Steve after he got frozen. He was the only survivor of horrible Super Soldier experiments done on black men, and after serving his country was hidden away and imprisoned because they couldn't handle publicly proclaiming a Black Cap. And as Captain America he was strong enough to rip Bucky's arm in half. Even in his old age, he still has incredible strength and would probably wipe the floor with anyone like M'Baku level and down. We also get confirmation that Power Broker can give people at least Super Soldier(Bucky, Steve, T'Challa) level powers and that probably means Walker's gonna get a few doses to get to US Agent levels.

We also see just how much race plays into the world even today.

Walker might not need multiple doses. They've made it clear he's already pretty much the pinnacle of what an unenhanced human can be, so I imagine that with the Super Soldier Serum he'd probably end up above any of the Super Soldiers that have come before him, having a stronger base to work from.

I just hope Bucky's going to stop basically being useless at some point. So far, all he's basically done is mope, gotten his ass kicked, been shown up tactically, been outperformed during the truck fight by a physically inferior noob to the superhero game (Walker, who did better in that fight than Bucky did), needed rescuing by Sam and has gotten arrested. Even his cooler feats have been undermined, like jumping from the plane where it was played for laughs or outpacing the trucks by immediately getting whooped by Karli. At this point Sam would probably be better off actually teaming up with Walker.

I just hope Bucky's going to stop basically being useless at some point. So far, all he's basically done is mope, gotten his ass kicked, been shown up tactically, been outperformed during the truck fight by a physically inferior noob to the superhero game (Walker, who did better in that fight than Bucky did), needed rescuing by Sam and has gotten arrested. Even his cooler feats have been undermined, like jumping from the plane where it was played for laughs or outpacing the trucks by immediately getting whooped by Karli. At this point Sam would probably be better off actually teaming up with Walker.

Agree with all that.

I think you're all missing the point of his broken psychology at this point. Its only been a brief point since he came back from the Blip, and there's also the fact he was used as a ****ing HYDRA agent multiple times. He even says in the first episode that's he only had a brief time to breathe and find himself. He's not operating 100% and Sam being a little ***** and rejecting the shield probably does create a rift between them. And yeah he got caught off guard twice, I wouldnt've written the fight that way but it is what it is. Personally, I would've given the shield to Bucky as he's the closest to Cap in physicals and skill. Sam's storyline is completely uninteresting to me

No, I get that he's damaged and working through stuff. But that doesn't change the fact that we're 1/3 of the way through the show and he has yet to make any meaningful positive contribution. And some stuff is just stupid. Like him wanting to just rush into the fight with the Flagsmashers because "I have a vibranium arm", without doing any proper recon. Even in CA:CW, when he was arguably even worse mentally, he still had the foresight to prep and have an escape plan in place if his apartment got found and raided. He's supposed to be a war veteran and elite assassin, yet he acted like an amateur in the scene from the last episode.

episode was okay, but the whole "white man oppressing the black man" plotline just isnt needed IMO. less of that, and more of bucky actually becoming a decent character again. please.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
episode was okay, but the whole "white man oppressing the black man" plotline just isnt needed IMO. less of that, and more of bucky actually becoming a decent character again. please.

It's absolutely needed because that's what happened. Isaiah was weaponized against his will, then betrayed by his country when his usefulness had run its course. The world didn't know about a Black Cap because the people in charge kept him under wraps. And Falcon was passed up as Steve's replacement for Walker despite that being what he wanted because the government once again thought a black man wasn't good enough for the shield.

Those are both huge story arcs that are intrinsic to Captain America, Falcon, Walker and Bucky.

Bucky is well on his way to getting better but his personal journey to redemption shouldn't overshadow everything else the story is telling and setting up. Nor should an uncomfortable but very real issue be dumbed down because you think it takes away from Bucky's therapy time when it's just as important as everything else in the setting if not moreso.

Originally posted by KingD19
And Falcon was passed up as Steve's replacement for Walker despite that being what he wanted because the government once again thought a black man wasn't good enough for the shield.

Race might have played a part there, but there are also other factors that could have been the cause for this. For starters, Sam himself rejected the shield, publicly to boot. What's more, he's just come back from the Blip (whereas, based on the dialogue about him running ops months earlier, Walker wasn't Blipped), and Sam's rebelled against the government and was an outlaw for two years after the events of CA:CW. It could be that their main motivation for picking Walker, beyond his physical capabilities (which were "off the charts", is because they thought he'd be more likely to stay in line and just do what he's told, whereas Sam is more likely to give them the finger if he thinks they're making the wrong call.

Anyone think Walker might go crazy after taking the SSS

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Anyone think Walker might go crazy after taking the SSS

I'm praying they have the Watchdog storyline in there somewhere. Walker went unhinged. One of my favorite comics ever.

(Captain America #345)

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Anyone think Walker might go crazy after taking the SSS

His parents will probably get killed like in the comic and that could push him over the breaking point after the pressure of being Cap and several failures to his name.

Originally posted by tkitna
I'm praying they have the Watchdog storyline in there somewhere. Walker went unhinged. One of my favorite comics ever.

(Captain America #345)

i still have that issue.. t'was really good...


Originally posted by KingD19
His parents will probably get killed like in the comic and that could push him over the breaking point after the pressure of being Cap and several failures to his name.


i can see that happening

OFF TOPIC, YET TANGENTIALLY

Whoo will be butthurt if Marvel decides to have Luke Cage take the SSS

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
OFF TOPIC, YET TANGENTIALLY

Whoo will be butthurt if Marvel decides to have Luke Cage take the SSS Why would he do that?

Originally posted by KingD19
His parents will probably get killed like in the comic and that could push him over the breaking point after the pressure of being Cap and several failures to his name.

Well, Disney does love killing off parents, so it's probably right up their alley to adapt that.

https://fandomwire.com/all-times-disney-has-killed-movie-parents/

And IIRC, almost all the main characters in Raya and the Dragon are orphans. Seriously, wtf, Disney?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, Disney does love killing off parents, so it's probably right up their alley to adapt that.

https://fandomwire.com/all-times-disney-has-killed-movie-parents/

And IIRC, almost all the main characters in Raya and the Dragon are orphans. Seriously, wtf, Disney?

It's funny how Raya becomes an orphan part way through herself.

Well Cage can't get the normal SSS. It's far too weak in comparison to him for him to still be considered Luke Cage. You don't get bulletproof and "I can throw cars" level of strength with the standard serum.

I rather enjoy how they picked a man with one of the most punchable faces to be the new Captain America. Well done, Disney.

Just like his dad in GotG 2.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
OFF TOPIC, YET TANGENTIALLY

Whoo will be butthurt if Marvel decides to have Luke Cage take the SSS

I don't know about butthurt, but a lot of people might find it perplexing and unnecessary. Cage has his own unique backstory, as well as the symbolism of being the "bulletproof Black man in America" and the political and social elements attached to it (which are highlighted quite effectively in the Netflix show) and which would be lost by that kind of change.

If they want to do a something along those lines, a prequel show about Isaiah Bradley or maybe a spin-off Patriot show would be a better idea IMO. Or a movie about either, obviously.

fairly decent episode... enjoyed seeing zemo


they are so bringing together the thunderbolts..

IMO, Zemo stole the show this episode.

I like Zemo, and I like the general attitude of the show, but I have two things that annoy me:

-I've always liked the idea that Cap was the only one the serum worked perfectly on. I feel like it cheapens him a bit if they start saying that some guy in a lab actually did a better job than Erskine, and now all these super soldiers are running around with a better serum than Steve's.

-Walker is too competent with the shield for me. Unless it comes out that he's also a super soldier later on, it's gonna continue to bother me.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
IMO, Zemo stole the show this episode.


wholeheartedly agree

Originally posted by -Pr-
I like Zemo, and I like the general attitude of the show, but I have two things that annoy me:

-I've always liked the idea that Cap was the only one the serum worked perfectly on. I feel like it cheapens him a bit if they start saying that some guy in a lab actually did a better job than Erskine, and now all these super soldiers are running around with a better serum than Steve's.

-Walker is too competent with the shield for me. Unless it comes out that he's also a super soldier later on, it's gonna continue to bother me.

Well, they did mention that the scientist in question was the only guy who was capable of doing so, despite there being numerous attempts over the decades. After 70+ years of attempts, it's not outside the realms of possibility that some uber genius geneticist would be able to figure it out. So, in that regard, it's not a stretch IMO. But yeah, the whole idea of it somehow actually being a better serum is kinda stupid.

As to Walker, I highly doubt he's a Super Soldier. Once he lost the shield during the truck fight, Karli overpowered him laughably easily. But they did mention that he's "off the charts" for a regular human, both physically and mentally. So, he's probably really good at calculating angles and things on the fly when it comes to using the shield. And based on some of the trailer footage, it doesn't take Sam that long to learn how to do multiple ricochet throws with the shield as well.

Not going to lie though. It does detract a bit from Steve's feats from the films, as it makes it seem like using the shield effectively isn't actually that difficult if two skilled but otherwise unenhanced humans can quickly learn to do so.

On an unrelated note, Zemo's club dance moves are already a meme online lol.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I like Zemo, and I like the general attitude of the show, but I have two things that annoy me:

-I've always liked the idea that Cap was the only one the serum worked perfectly on. I feel like it cheapens him a bit if they start saying that some guy in a lab actually did a better job than Erskine, and now all these super soldiers are running around with a better serum than Steve's.

-Walker is too competent with the shield for me. Unless it comes out that he's also a super soldier later on, it's gonna continue to bother me. I mean, there's already a better serum in the MCU with Extremis, which shits all over the SSS.

It was pointed out in the 2nd ep that Walker is an exceptionally gifted normal human, both physically and mentally.

They're kinda touching back on how Cap was originally written in the 40's, not superhuman, just peak human in every physical category.

The latest episode was pretty intense. That shot of Walker with the bloodied shield at the end. Damn. And he seems to be extra potent, even for a Super Soldier.

Also, the Dora Milaje are badass.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The latest episode was pretty intense. That shot of Walker with the bloodied shield at the end. Damn. And he seems to be extra potent, even for a Super Soldier.

Also, the Dora Milaje are badass. What makes you think he's extra potent?

Man Bucky has really ****ing fallen lmao

I think he did better in this episode. He clearly wasn't trying to hurt the Dora Milaje and he considers them friends, comrades in arms. They on the other hand will say "f*ck you* to anyone who stops them from what they want so they were going all out. And he didn't even know about his arm.

Against the Super Soldier, he took him out almost immediately. He's only ever really had trouble when he's fighting multiple opponents who are every bit as powerful as him, so that's not really a knock. It looks bad if you don't pay attention to the context.

Originally posted by Mindset
What makes you think he's extra potent?

I wouldn't say he's extra potent imo. I think that's the "Power Ranger" effect. It's his first showing with the juice so they make him look extra flashy. Also he's in pure rage mode so he'd be giving it more effort than anyone else in the room. The guy he took down was so scared he wasn't even trying to fight back.

Also yes, Walker with the shield made me actually pause and think back and I realized...we've never seen the shield bloody before. Like ever. And it really does defy physics since it can easily smash through concrete and slice through metal, but doesn't ever cut people.

Cap's shield is becoming the new Anakin's lightsaber.

Originally posted by KingD19
I wouldn't say he's extra potent imo. I think that's the "Power Ranger" effect. It's his first showing with the juice so they make him look extra flashy. Also he's in pure rage mode so he'd be giving it more effort than anyone else in the room. The guy he took down was so scared he wasn't even trying to fight back.

Also yes, Walker with the shield made me actually pause and think back and I realized...we've never seen the shield bloody before. Like ever. And it really does defy physics since it can easily smash through concrete and slice through metal, but doesn't ever cut people. Yea, but he didn't look better than Bucky.

Honestly, Bucky, Flacon, and him looked about the same.

He was fighting two for a bit, but the shield is a huge advantage.


I have noticed they've been playing down Bucky's arm advantage in the series.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, but he didn't look better than Bucky.

Honestly, Bucky, Flacon, and him looked about the same.

He was fighting two for a bit, but the shield is a huge advantage.


I have noticed they've been playing down Bucky's arm advantage in the series.

True, he didn't look better than Bucky. If anything Walker going unhinged shows that the Flag Smashers are all just scared kids with no real training so when they fight a soldier who is on their level and not just trying to put them down, but trying to hurt/kill them, they see what they're really getting into. So the fact that he's Spec Ops + Super Soldier and means business puts him on a slightly higher level than them.

I actually don't know precisely when he took the serum, because we didn't see the "veins on fire" reaction Karli talked about so I assume it was offscreen and he just pretended to be normal until Battlestar got crunched.

The shield is absolutely an advantage, and as much as I hate Walker, he knows how to use it.

I think Bucky's arm is seeing less use because we know just how much damage the inferior one did, so imagine if he punched anyone he fought full force with Wakanda model? An arm that can survive a 200 foot fall through trees without even a scratch? He'd kill someone in a heartbeat, and that's not how he rolls anymore. He's Bucky Barnes, not the Winter Soldier, so he holds back. He's not going for the kill shots. He's going easy on people if he can.


Also I really dig Falcon's fighting style. Not only is he good enough to fight people like Batroc and the Dora Milaje. His maneuverability and versatility with the wings and jetpack are insane. And he apparently still hasn't repaired Redwing, hopefully sans government trackers.

derek kolstad certainly did his research regarding john walker.. i liked this episode.. besides john is also a damn hot head, he should've let sam talk carli down. i can definitely see her join the thunderbolts.

Originally posted by Mindset
What makes you think he's extra potent?

His feats looked flashier compared to all the other Super Soldiers in the episode, which is why he seemed more potent. At least to me. Not saying he necessarily is. Just that he looked that way to me on his first outing. But then I suppose it could have just been a style choice by the directors and writers to highlight the jump between his pre-Serum abilities and his Super Soldier abilities.

Originally posted by KingD19
I think he did better in this episode. He clearly wasn't trying to hurt the Dora Milaje and he considers them friends, comrades in arms. They on the other hand will say "f*ck you* to anyone who stops them from what they want so they were going all out. And he didn't even know about his arm.

Against the Super Soldier, he took him out almost immediately. He's only ever really had trouble when he's fighting multiple opponents who are every bit as powerful as him, so that's not really a knock. It looks bad if you don't pay attention to the context.

Bucky was amusing in that last fight. Kicks a dude through a wall. "Stay there." And when he punches that guy attacking Falcon off the screen he's just like, "You're welcome."

And yeah, he clearly wasn't serious against the Dora Milaje. He was even like, "Can we talk about this?" And, as you mentioned, he didn't know that arm thing could happen.

It does show that the Flash Smashers are actually kind of weak though. I mean, yeah, physically they're super strong, tough and fast, but if they encounter anyone on their physical level who actually has skill and know what they're up against they get absolutely fodderised. Walker, Bucky and even Sam were beating them up pretty easily.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Bucky was amusing in that last fight. Kicks a dude through a wall. "Stay there." And when he punches that guy attacking Falcon off the screen he's just like, "You're welcome."

And yeah, he clearly wasn't serious against the Dora Milaje. He was even like, "Can we talk about this?" And, as you mentioned, he didn't know that arm thing could happen.

It does show that the Flash Smashers are actually kind of weak though. I mean, yeah, physically they're super strong, tough and fast, but if they encounter anyone on their physical level who actually has skill and know what they're up against they get absolutely fodderised. Walker, Bucky and even Sam were beating them up pretty easily.

Yeah, Bucky is a guy who's been through it all. He didn't have time for their amateur hour BS.

Indeed. He was talking to Ayo, and being 100% reactionary and defensive. He didn't attack a single Dora Milaje, only made sure he, Walker, and Sam didn't get stabbed up. And then, the arm. He was just like, "The hell is this? This is a thing that can happen?" Even Sam went, "Did you know they could do that?" And Bucky clearly didn't. I think he also might feel a bit hurt at that, that they didn't trust him enough to put a failsafe into the arm they gifted him . Even though they knew Winter Soldier wasn't him, and he didn't kill T'Chaka.

As for the Flag Smashers, that's true, and my reasoning is that they're all a bunch of orphans who aren't trained for this. They're not soldiers, they're not elite fighters. They're normal kids who got lucky enough to get the find of a lifetime. But just because you can lift up a truck, doesn't mean you figured out how to throw a punch.

I also like how Sam isn't enhanced himself but has become an expert at utilising the thrusters on his suit to augment his strikes and kicks to almost Super Soldier-like levels as well as enhance his agility even when he isn't in full flight mode. He's become really skilled at using that wing pack of his.

Also, who else thinks that Sharon might actually be the Power Broker?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, who else thinks that Sharon might actually be the Power Broker?

I've thought that several times.

And watching Sam jet kick someone or rocket boost their face into a wall is awesome.

Enjoying the series so far. Started slow but picking up fast.


Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, who else thinks that Sharon might actually be the Power Broker?

This is what I thought pretty quickly in the episode where she showed up. But still some things don't add up about that theory.

Originally posted by Inhuman
This is what I thought pretty quickly in the episode where she showed up. But still some things don't add up about that theory.

I feel like she wasn't necessarily the original, but took them out and assumed their mantle during the time she's been rogue. I mean considering how the Power Broker operates in the shadows, how many people who aren't in with them even know what they look like? The anonymity of being a shadow player is a bit of a double-edged sword.

Might also be a Red Herring though.

We already got tricked by Quicksilver. So I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, who else thinks that Sharon might actually be the Power Broker?



wouldn't make sense but i understand it...

Walker is by far the best part of this show. I love the angle they're taking with his version of Cap.

I saw someone else bring up the fact that Steve was a more ideal soldier made under better circumstance, in that the war he was fighting that was indisputably just (vs Nazis) whereas Walker is a soldier made in a war where even he questions the morality of the choices he had to make (not to mention the PTSD he suffers from it all). It makes for a more modern Cap and it's a very interesting dynamic. I truly hope he survives the season and sticks around in the MCU. Seeing him show up every time the government sticks their nose in other heroes business could be amusing.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
His feats looked flashier compared to all the other Super Soldiers in the episode, which is why he seemed more potent. At least to me. Not saying he necessarily is. Just that he looked that way to me on his first outing. But then I suppose it could have just been a style choice by the directors and writers to highlight the jump between his pre-Serum abilities and his Super Soldier abilities. Had literally 0 flashy moves lol.

Only flashy moves in that fight were from Sam and that one super soldier doing flips...watch the fight again.

Originally posted by Mindset
Had literally 0 flashy moves lol.

Only flashy moves in that fight were from Sam and that one super soldier doing flips...watch the fight again.

I said feats, not moves. Flashy feats don't just mean doing acrobatic moves. Other than Bucky's one kick and Karli's one punch, Walker got all the best-looking strength and durability feats during that scene, like casually bending that metal pipe, embedding his shield several inches into a concrete pillar, tossing around Flag Smashers like ragdolls, or crushing the van's roof by jumping from a couple floors up.

But as I already conceded, it could just be the guys behind the camera wanting to emphasize the boost in Walker's abilities whereas the others already had their super status established beforehand.

Warning, potential minor spoilers for the last two episodes.

iQSHrgjayz8

Looks like Sam and Bucky are going to gang up on Walker to take the shield. If he doesn't get stomped and actually makes a good fight of it that would be pretty impressive on his part. I don't see him winning though.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Warning, potential minor spoilers for the last two episodes.

iQSHrgjayz8

Looks like Sam and Bucky are going to gang up on Walker to take the shield. If he doesn't get stomped and actually makes a good fight of it that would be pretty impressive on his part. I don't see him winning though.


the final 2 episodes are gonna freaking f7cking awesome

IMO, The mystery person is Steve or Red Hulk

Wondering if they're going to tie in the upcoming She-Hulk series with a cameo before this season is over.

^^^possible

Originally posted by Robtard
Wondering if they're going to tie in the upcoming She-Hulk series with a cameo before this season is over.

Somebody said they talked to the director and he said the mystery person was female and a lawyer so its almost a certainty that its Jennifer.

Nice

Isaiah Bradley will be returning to the series it seems.

Do hope we get a flashback scene of a young Isaiah fighting Bucky during the Korean War.

Originally posted by Robtard
Isaiah Bradley will be returning to the series it seems.

Do hope we get a flashback scene of a young Isaiah fighting Bucky during the Korean War.

Yeeesss. I wanna see him rip that arm off.

Originally posted by Robtard
Isaiah Bradley will be returning to the series it seems.

Do hope we get a flashback scene of a young Isaiah fighting Bucky during the Korean War.


some folks believe Isaiah is the power broker

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
some folks believe Isaiah is the power broker

People will come up with anything.

Damn Bucky jobbed as shit he was Johns ***** throughout the fight

In Bucky's defense, they made John much closer to his comic levels than a single dose of SSS in the MCU should make him.

Even Cap couldn't send someone flying across the room riding the shield with their gut. And he hit him hard enough to send sparks out of his Vibranium arm.

I wish they hadn't made Bucky the punching bag to show off Psycho Cap, but it is what it is. They had to nerf him this entire series so Walker would look good as a villain when he finally snapped.

Originally posted by KingD19
People will come up with anything.


yea// now it seems sharon could be


this show has been written well and is so good..

Originally posted by KingD19
In Bucky's defense, they made John much closer to his comic levels than a single dose of SSS in the MCU should make him.

Even Cap couldn't send someone flying across the room riding the shield with their gut. And he hit him hard enough to send sparks out of his Vibranium arm.

I wish they hadn't made Bucky the punching bag to show off Psycho Cap, but it is what it is. They had to nerf him this entire series so Walker would look good as a villain when he finally snapped.

Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily Bucky being weak. More like my initial prediction that Walker, already being a peak human at base, is simply more powerful than a regular Super Soldier after taking the serum. I mean unless we assume that Bucky's vibranium arm is much weaker than his old one, Walker is simply way stronger than the others, considering we consistently saw Cap get overpowered by Bucky's old arm in the films whereas it took Bucky using both arms and Sam pulling with his thrusters to aid him to break Walker's hold on the shield.

I do hope Bucky redeems himself in the last episode though. I mean, yeah, Walker is uber powerful, but all Bucky has done is beat up fodder while looking bad in every other instance. Even him beating up the Flag Smashers isn't that impressive by his usual standards, considering he has way more training and experience than them. The only thing that can really be said in Bucky's defense so far is that he's making an active effort to hold back from killing, whereas pretty much everyone he's fought has fought with murderous intent.

And John seemed to heal up really quickly from the broken arm as well, based on him being fully healed while building himself a new shield during the post-credits sequence.

And Sharon enlisting Batroc and getting him out of jail further leans into the idea of her being the Power Broker.

Originally posted by carthage
Damn Bucky jobbed as shit he was Johns ***** throughout the fight Bucky in the show has been consistently inferior to Bucky in the movies.

Falcon has actually improved though.

Falcon will probably be even better in the finale, considering he has the shield, presumably new vibranium wings and even got a training montage at the end of the last episode, which is often used as plot tool for a power/ability creep.

Bucky's stuck in his own head IMO. I think he's so afraid of reverting to his old self and going haywire that he subconsciously nerfs himself from fighting at his best. He even says in episode 5 that the fact that he's still having nightmares means he's still "there" and that the Winter Soldier is still inside him, something that he is afraid of.

looking forward to this show rebranded as Captain America and the Winter Soldier

Originally posted by Mindset
Bucky in the show has been consistently inferior to Bucky in the movies.

Falcon has actually improved though.

I didn't like the arm drop of doom especially.

Just detaching like a lego toy.

Originally posted by Mindset
Bucky in the show has been consistently inferior to Bucky in the movies.

Falcon has actually improved though.

It's because he's depressed or something.

The finale was kind of a letdown for me. There were some good moments, but it was heavily overshadowed by the extremely inconsistent character portrayals in the fight sequences, especially when taking into account previous episodes and considering the series as a whole.

Sam can fight head to head with the Flag Smashers who, based on Sharon's comments when she was trying to lure Karli back, weren't as inexperienced as we'd initially been led to believe. But then he struggles heavily with fighting Batroc, who's simply a skilled human in street clothes.

Rage-mode Walker goes from being able to fight multiple Flag Smashers at once in episode 4 to struggling with similar numbers during the finale, and despite being able to out-muscle her gets floored by Karli, who then struggles to land a hit on Sam who's not even fighting back, who in turn got whooped and nearly beaten by Walker while having Bucky as a teammate. And the other Flag Smashers who were getting easily beaten in episode 4 by Bucky, Walker and Sam can now give Bucky and Walker problems in H2H.

Seriously, this is CW levels of inconsistency

It's like I said in Vscomic off topic.

Walkee is poorly written. His bigotry is way over the top, and he's a pathetic fighter. More of a punching bag against the alt-right then a real character.

I was ultimately let down. There's a lot I liked but a LOT more I hated.

I liked all the racial topics it tackled. It's relevant and I've seen those exact opinions about Falcon becoming Cap online. I also liked Walker and the modern Cap angle they took with him. I LOVED Isiah's story line and the conclusion to it. I enjoyed Cap and Winter Soldiers newfound partner dynamic and friendship. Zemo was fantastic and once again took the W.

Everything else, I wasn't a fan of. Sharon was a lame character this go around and it feels like they just didn't know what to do with her. Villain Sharon was just annoying and I personally hope she doesn't show up too much in the MCU now that Cap is gone. I don't know how she's related to GOAT Peggy.

The Flag Smashers were a pointless blip in the MCU's history, and already irrelevant.

Batroc being shot by Sharon is a waste of a better character. They should have played up him vs Falcon more. I also got the impression that he was a more seasoned/professional merc, so him threatening the powerbroker (a dangerous and well funded individual) for more pay (breaching contract and thus destroying his rep) while pointing his gun at someone she doesn't give that much of a shit about (point it at the powerbroker if you're going to try to blackmail) just felt like a stupid rookie move. And what happened to "I don't care about money, I just want Falcon!"?

As already outlined, the power levels were super inconsistent throughout, for everyone. After Walker took on WS and Falcon, I should be able to argue he can take on Cap. On the other hand, he got KOed pretty quick by that lead Flag Smasher and there is no way that would happen to Cap. Falcon was a beast for most of the series, and then he struggled hard with Batroc before overwhelming him.

The story in general just kind of felt like it was just blundering from instance to instance. This was my biggest disappointment. I was hoping for this show to take the political thriller/intricate conspiracies with widespread consequences angle the Cap movies took, and that's what I expected. There was some of that with the Flag Smashers but they were just ultimately pointless, and they felt like the under dogs the entire time. I never once felt like Cap and WS were really taxed or dealing with something some normal law enforcement and military couldn't handle.

Also

Cap refusing to fight the Flag Smasher at the end right up until she almost executed him was stupid as hell. There is NO WAY Rogers would have done that. She almost succeeded in killing Cap, which was a pretty big goal of the Flag Smashers. Remember Rogers moving towards Iron Man with his shield up in the finale at the bunker in Civil War? And that was a friend. This was a random terrorist (and that's what she was regardless of his last speech; I did agree with the general message of using the label to avoid certain truths or color an argument a certain way though, that was a good point) trying to kill him. You don't almost sacrifice the mission just to prove a point about how much you're against using violence to solve problems.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Also

Cap refusing to fight the Flag Smasher at the end right up until she almost executed him was stupid as hell. There is NO WAY Rogers would have done that. She almost succeeded in killing Cap, which was a pretty big goal of the Flag Smashers. Remember Rogers moving towards Iron Man with his shield up in the finale at the bunker in Civil War? And that was a friend. This was a random terrorist (and that's what she was regardless of his last speech; I did agree with the general message of using the label to avoid certain truths or color an argument a certain way though, that was a good point) trying to kill him. You don't almost sacrifice the mission just to prove a point about how much you're against using violence to solve problems. Why are you expecting Falcon to act like Steve?

Falcon was a like a veteran counselor or something.

It seemed to me Karli wasn't going to shoot him. She was panicking, but Sam wasn't in danger of being shot anyway. His suit and wings are bulletproof. If it wasn't for Sharon "Power Broker" Carter killing Karli and using her moment of hesitation to make it seem like she was gonna shoot Sam, Karli would've been brought in, and would've confessed to knowing who Sharon was.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why are you expecting Falcon to act like Steve?

Falcon was a like a veteran counselor or something. That's a good point, but he's also a veteran himself who ran a thousand ops long before he met Steve. Counselor or not letting a literal terrorist execute you doesn't seem like a move a seasoned soldier would make. Especially since he was protecting Sharon there. Karli would have killed her right after. It wasn't the right move.

Originally posted by KingD19
It seemed to me Karli wasn't going to shoot him. She was panicking, but Sam wasn't in danger of being shot anyway. His suit and wings are bulletproof. If it wasn't for Sharon "Power Broker" Carter killing Karli and using her moment of hesitation to make it seem like she was gonna shoot Sam, Karli would've been brought in, and would've confessed to knowing who Sharon was.

She clearly was about to shoot him at the end. She took aim, braced, grimaced, and everything. Sure, she was conflicted, and hesitated, but she was going to follow through like she always does. She's killed tons of noncombatant civilians for her cause. She wouldn't stop just for Sam. Sharon saved his life there.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
That's a good point, but he's also a veteran himself who ran a thousand ops long before he met Steve. Counselor or not letting a literal terrorist execute you doesn't seem like a move a seasoned soldier would make. Especially since he was protecting Sharon there. Karli would have killed her right after. It wasn't the right move.



She clearly was about to shoot him at the end. She took aim, braced, grimaced, and everything. Sure, she was conflicted, and hesitated, but she was going to follow through like she always does. She's killed tons of noncombatant civilians for her cause. She wouldn't stop just for Sam. Sharon saved his life there. He clearly had a soft spot for her that was shown multiple times. He tried to talk her down multiple times. He didn't think she was going to kill him.

this was a well thought out series. i enjoyed it.. can't wait for more adventures

I wouldn't be surprised if Batroc isn't actually dead. He gets shot and goes down, but there isn't really any follow up there (unless I missed something), unlike Karli who it was made clear that she died. And based on his reaction before he drops, he gets hit in the torso, not in the head. So, he could definitely still be alive somewhere.

I also find it kind of funny that the person who was most efficient at handling the Flag Smashers was Zemo's butler.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I wouldn't be surprised if Batroc isn't actually dead. He gets shot and goes down, but there isn't really any follow up there (unless I missed something), unlike Karli who it was made clear that she died. And based on his reaction before he drops, he gets hit in the torso, not in the head. So, he could definitely still be alive somewhere.

I also find it kind of funny that the person who was most efficient at handling the Flag Smashers was Zemo's butler. https://uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/ezgif-com-crop-2.gif

Originally posted by Mindset
He clearly had a soft spot for her that was shown multiple times. He tried to talk her down multiple times. He didn't think she was going to kill him. The fact that she was going to kill him shows how dumb of a move it was. He would have been an even shorter lived Cap than Walker.

Hell, she even told him in an earlier episode that she doesn't want to kill him because he wasn't wearing the star so it would be pointless. It didn't align with her ideals. She only wanted to kill Cap and smash flags. Then he showed up wearing the star and holding the shield and he expects her to not kill him because they had a 5 minute conversation once a week prior? The same lady who blew up innocent civilians and is buffed by the SS serum? The ends justified the means with her, and Wilsons entire gift is being able to read people.

There is no way that wasn't a dumb move. Yes, he empathized with her cause (as he should, his argument was spot on), but it still doesn't make sense for him to not just take her down and proceed from there. At least in that scenario, she'd still be alive.

Kinda disappointed walker didnt pull up to the last fight and start blowing mfs away

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Kinda disappointed walker didnt pull up to the last fight and start blowing mfs away LMAO he had nothing to lose so he may as well have gone full anti-hero.

I like that he came off more redeemable in the finale though.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
LMAO he had nothing to lose so he may as well have gone full anti-hero.

I like that he came off more redeemable in the finale though.

Yeah, they showed that although he has some questionable tactics, deep down he still wants to do the right thing. They even have the bit where he has to choose between going after Karli again or grabbing the truck and he chooses the later.

He still seems slightly off though. When he got his new US Agent costume towards the end of the episode he did that weird neck twitch thing again at one point which he started doing after taking the serum.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, they showed that although he has some questionable tactics, deep down he still wants to do the right thing. They even have the bit where he has to choose between going after Karli again or grabbing the truck and he chooses the later.

He still seems slightly off though. When he got his new US Agent costume towards the end of the episode he did that weird neck twitch thing again at one point which he started doing after taking the serum. I didn't even notice that. Good catch! I actually do hope it's an ongoing problem. TBH I hope they do Dark Avengers, The Jury, or Thunderbolts (taking a few liberties, of course since he's never been on this team) with Walker. His most illuminating line was in the second episode when he talked about how conflicted he felt about all his medals in the military and what he did to earn them. I think Walker is at his most interesting when they rev up the inner turmoil, and the serum could turn that up to 11. Could you imagine him on some covert super team doing questionable ops and struggling with the morality of it of it all? They could take Walker some pretty dark places in the MCU.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
I didn't even notice that. Good catch! I actually do hope it's an ongoing problem. TBH I hope they do Dark Avengers, The Jury, or Thunderbolts (taking a few liberties, of course since he's never been on this team) with Walker. His most illuminating line was in the second episode when he talked about how conflicted he felt about all his medals in the military and what he did to earn them. I think Walker is at his most interesting when they rev up the inner turmoil, and the serum could turn that up to 11. Could you imagine him on some covert super team doing questionable ops and struggling with the morality of it of it all? They could take Walker some pretty dark places in the MCU.

At the 0:34 mark in the clip, he does the neck twitch again. And it seems like an involuntary action, so looks like there's still some instability. I'm just glad they didn't kill him off. The MCU has had a bad habit of doing that in the past and wasting a lot of potential in the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljdw4qUcIaQ

But yes, it would be interesting seeing him act in a more grey area within the MCU and see how his psyche copes with it.

Walker once again proved to be extremely strong though. From what I can recall, those types of armored trucks shown in the episode weigh like eight to ten tons, and it was full of people when he grabbed it. And he even briefly takes one of his hands off to smack away a charging Flag Smasher while holding it with his other one. And it eventually takes two of them piling onto him to break his grip.

Also, while I did like the bit honouring Isaiah Bradley at the end, I kind of wish we'd seen more of him during the show, maybe in a flashback or something. But maybe they can do a spinoff with him down the line.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Walker once again proved to be extremely strong though. From what I can recall, those types of armored trucks shown in the episode weigh like eight to ten tons, and it was full of people when he grabbed it. And he even briefly takes one of his hands off to smack away a charging Flag Smasher while holding it with his other one. And it eventually takes two of them piling onto him to break his grip.

Also, while I did like the bit honouring Isaiah Bradley at the end, I kind of wish we'd seen more of him during the show, maybe in a flashback or something. But maybe they can do a spinoff with him down the line. Super Soldiers are strong AF, look at Cap.Originally posted by Arachnid1
The fact that she was going to kill him shows how dumb of a move it was. He would have been an even shorter lived Cap than Walker.

Hell, she even told him in an earlier episode that she doesn't want to kill him because he wasn't wearing the star so it would be pointless. It didn't align with her ideals. She only wanted to kill Cap and smash flags. Then he showed up wearing the star and holding the shield and he expects her to not kill him because they had a 5 minute conversation once a week prior? The same lady who blew up innocent civilians and is buffed by the SS serum? The ends justified the means with her, and Wilsons entire gift is being able to read people.

There is no way that wasn't a dumb move. Yes, he empathized with her cause (as he should, his argument was spot on), but it still doesn't make sense for him to not just take her down and proceed from there. At least in that scenario, she'd still be alive. Like I said, he didn't think she was going to kill him.

Like Cap not fighting back against Bucky.

Originally posted by Mindset
Super Soldiers are strong AF, look at Cap. Like I said, he didn't think she was going to kill him.

Like Cap not fighting back against Bucky. I know he thought that. Like I said, it was a dumb conclusion for him to come to.

At least with Bucky, Cap saw the cracks prior (versus Karli holding to the Smashers plans and ideals 100% and flat out telling him she would kill him if he wore the symbol).

He had also already succeeded in completely shutting down Hydra's plan, and fought Bucky right up until the moment he took out the carriers (versus killing Cap still being on the menu for the Smashers and her freedom meaning the mission would continue).

He also knew Bucky basically his entire life (versus Falcon letting a literal stranger do the same).

Unlike Sam, Rogers was right. WS saved his life directly after (versus Karli trying to execute Sam). Those situations were polar opposites, contextually.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
At the 0:34 mark in the clip, he does the neck twitch again. And it seems like an involuntary action, so looks like there's still some instability. I'm just glad they didn't kill him off. The MCU has had a bad habit of doing that in the past and wasting a lot of potential in the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljdw4qUcIaQ

But yes, it would be interesting seeing him act in a more grey area within the MCU and see how his psyche copes with it. I thought for sure Wakanda was going to execute Zemo a few episodes too. Glad they didn't. WandaVision kept Agatha around too, thankfully. Keep villains alive!

Originally posted by Arachnid1
I know he thought that. Like I said, it was a dumb conclusion for him to come to.

At least with Bucky, Cap saw the cracks prior (versus Karli holding to the Smashers plans and ideals 100% and flat out telling him she would kill him if he wore the symbol).

He had also already succeeded in completely shutting down Hydra's plan, and fought Bucky right up until the moment he took out the carriers (versus killing Cap still being on the menu for the Smashers and her freedom meaning the mission would continue).

He also knew Bucky basically his entire life (versus Falcon letting a literal stranger do the same).

Unlike Sam, Rogers was right. WS saved his life directly after (versus Karli trying to execute Sam). Those situations were polar opposites, contextually.

I thought for sure Wakanda was going to execute Zemo a few episodes too. Glad they didn't. WandaVision kept Agatha around too, thankfully. Keep villains alive! Bucky could have killed Cap too, he had already tried to multiple times. Logically, it was stupid for Cap to stop fighting back.

I'm not really sure why you're arguing here though. Whether it was a dumb move or not isn't really relevant to what we were initially talking about. There's no reason to expect Falcon to act like Steve...anyway, it's possible Steve would have done the same thing if he empathized with her.

Captain Sam's new suit looks like he's wearing a pair of tighty whities on his head.

I was pretty underwhelmed with the whole show. I liked Walkers characterization. They nailed him. Sam upped his game and has become a pretty formidable fighter. Zemo was awesome.

The storyline itself was a bit meh. I wanted Bucky to be a bit more merciless. Thought Sharon was annoying. The reveal not being Jennifer Walters was a bummer

Originally posted by Galan007
Captain Sam's new suit looks like he's wearing a pair of tighty whities on his head.
Its trash period.

Falcon America's speech was cringe inducing.

Originally posted by cdtm
Falcon America's speech was cringe inducing.

and trumps speeches aren't hahahahaha

Must have missed that post blip speech Trump made.

Originally posted by cdtm
Must have missed that post blip speech Trump made.


nah trump was cringy AF and hopefully he'll go away or die


back to topic.. looking foward to the thuderbolts and armor wars

Was Sam wearing an armor?

Because even if the jet pack was that powerful, an unenhanced person would be jellied.

Sam should have been goop a long time ago.

Originally posted by KingD19
Sam should have been goop a long time ago.

Haha, true.

Seeing that ridiculously large weight just makes it harder to gloss over, compared to the effects of a hypersonic 90 degree turn or getting slammed through cement and a row of cars.

Originally posted by Mindset
Bucky could have killed Cap too, he had already tried to multiple times. Logically, it was stupid for Cap to stop fighting back.

I'm not really sure why you're arguing here though. Whether it was a dumb move or not isn't really relevant to what we were initially talking about. There's no reason to expect Falcon to act like Steve...anyway, it's possible Steve would have done the same thing if he empathized with her. The point wasn't the comparison to Steve. That's why I agreed with you when you brought up the fact that he doesn't necessarily have to act like Steve after my initial post about that scene. I also didn't make any Cap comparisons after that initial post until you brought up Steve's situation with Bucky. You're the one making it about Rogers at this point by focusing your entire argument on him (as if that somehow makes NuCaps decision to let Karli execute him right).

Sure, purely logically Roger's should find a better way to break through to WS from a safer position, but it still wasn't the same. Sam's situation was exponentially more senseless since it had no base or history to it, he was doing with a complete stranger, and he had a lot more on the line there than just his own life (the whole mission and Sharons life). I don't think Steve would have done the same knowing what's on the line. The closest parallel I can think of was the fight with Iron Man (though Sam's situation is still worse than this since Rogers was at least friends with Stark). Bucky's life was on the line like Sharon's, and keeping him alive while clearing his name was Caps mission all movie. Roger's didn't passively let IM beat him and WS down while he tried to reason. He fought, reasoned, and took IM down non-lethally. The best case scenario for him since no one died, and he accomplished his own mission to keep Bucky alive.

Anyway, enough about Rogers. Let's just contextualize this exchange. My point is that he made the wrong move, and it was stupid (the very first sentence of that very first post about this subject). Every single post I've made since has repeated that and given multiple reasons as to why it was. Do you disagree with that main idea?

Originally posted by Arachnid1
The point wasn't the comparison to Steve. That's why I agreed with you when you brought up the fact that he doesn't necessarily have to act like Steve after my initial post about that scene. I also didn't make any Cap comparisons after that initial post until you brought up Steve's situation with Bucky. You're the one making it about Rogers at this point by focusing your entire argument on him (as if that somehow makes NuCaps decision to let Karli execute him right).

Sure, purely logically Roger's should find a better way to break through to WS from a safer position, but it still wasn't the same. Sam's situation was exponentially more senseless since it had no base or history to it, he was doing with a complete stranger, and he had a lot more on the line there than just his own life (the whole mission and Sharons life). I don't think Steve would have done the same knowing what's on the line. The closest parallel I can think of was the fight with Iron Man (though Sam's situation is still worse than this since Rogers was at least friends with Stark). Bucky's life was on the line like Sharon's, and keeping him alive while clearing his name was Caps mission all movie. Roger's didn't passively let IM beat him and WS down while he tried to reason. He fought, reasoned, and took IM down non-lethally. The best case scenario for him since no one died, and he accomplished his own mission to keep Bucky alive.

Anyway, enough about Rogers. Let's just contextualize this exchange. My point is that he made the wrong move, and it was stupid (the very first sentence of that very first post about this subject). Every single post I've made since has repeated that and given multiple reasons as to why it was. Do you disagree with that main idea? You write way too much.

Condense your posts.

Originally posted by Mindset
You write way too much.

Condense your posts. That is a small post explaining how you don't understand the argument being made. It's funny how you choose not to read posts right when you realize your point is wrong. That's twice now.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
That is a small post explaining how you don't understand the argument being made. It's funny how you choose not to read posts right when you realize your point is wrong. That's twice now. I'll read any post that's not long-winded, idc about being wrong or right.

There isn't even a wrong or right to this convo though, so not sure what you mean.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'll read any post that's not long-winded, idc about being wrong or right.

There isn't even a wrong or right to this convo though, so not sure what you mean. No, there's definitely a right or wrong here. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the argument. Sam was dumb and wrong in that scene.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
No, there's definitely a right or wrong here. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the argument. Sam was dumb and wrong in that scene. I mean, it's possible you were arguing alone, but this was never an argument between us.

I was explaining his actions; not whether or not they were smart.

Maybe we were talking past each other.

Originally posted by cdtm
Haha, true.

Seeing that ridiculously large weight just makes it harder to gloss over, compared to the effects of a hypersonic 90 degree turn or getting slammed through cement and a row of cars.

He's had flak cannon fire exploding inches away from him, flown through explosion fireballs, taken hits from super soldiers and other superhuman beings, smashed through all sorts of stuff with his face, and arms fully exposed, etc, etc, etc... Even having that falling helicopter bounce off his wings without him being affected in any way(probably from the Vibranium) shows he's super tough. Even catching a falling Cap, then flying up with him at full thrust should've ripped his arm out of the socket.

Does Falcon wear power armor? New outfit kind of reminds me of an Iron Patriot suit.

Originally posted by Mindset
I mean, it's possible you were arguing alone, but this was never an argument between us.

I was explaining his actions; not whether or not they were smart.

Maybe we were talking past each other. Yeah, we were talking past each other then. I brought up that possibility in the post you didn't bother to read, to make sure we were on the same wavelength. I agreed with your initial contradiction about how Sam doesn't necessarily have to imitate Steve and we diverged from there.

Originally posted by cdtm
Does Falcon wear power armor? New outfit kind of reminds me of an Iron Patriot suit. Nah, power comes from from thighs and quads, baby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_ZLGRAZM0A&t=1100s

Originally posted by KingD19
He's had flak cannon fire exploding inches away from him, flown through explosion fireballs, taken hits from super soldiers and other superhuman beings, smashed through all sorts of stuff with his face, and arms fully exposed, etc, etc, etc... Even having that falling helicopter bounce off his wings without him being affected in any way(probably from the Vibranium) shows he's super tough. Even catching a falling Cap, then flying up with him at full thrust should've ripped his arm out of the socket.

Or smashing at high speed into an enormous, armored alien creature hard enough to knock it over without even giving himself whiplash.

Yeah, Sam's always had a healthy dose of plot armour to perform like 90% of his feats from the films and show. Because a regular human would have been killed like a dozen times over by now under the same circumstances.

Originally posted by cdtm
Does Falcon wear power armor? New outfit kind of reminds me of an Iron Patriot suit.

No, but he should.