What is standard equipment???

Trackz

Originally posted by Stoic
The underpants that Daredevil wears into battle every time we see him would be an example of standard equipment. However, if that standard equipment could operate autonomously at times, why wouldn't or couldn't it still be considered standard equipment?

in addition, we also dictate standard equipment differently for those characters whose equipment varies (e.g. deadpool, punisher, winter soldier, etc.). with those characters we set it based on equipment they've been shown to have at least semi-regularly or at the very least seem to carry on them with no deliberate planning or preparation. it's why characters like punisher and deadpool get explosives even though there can several story arcs in which they aren't shown or used. we also know that there have been several arcs over a few years where they have used them. setting a standard equipment for characters with varying arsenals as if all equipment should be like the captain america shield wouldn't make sense for them, and it's why people implicitly allow for those characters to take advantage of their varied arsenals.

DarkSaint85

Parmaniac

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then Robin suddenly becomes Batman's.

But my point is how do we deal with equipment that ISN'T seen in MOST battles? As a Batman fan that question strikes you now?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Parmaniac
As a Batman fan that question strikes you now?

Difference is (and this is how it started), Batman has a belt that is practically bottomless, lol.

Boy Thing doesn't always appear on Blade's shoulder when Blade goes to fight. Hell, most of the time he doesn't even appear on his shoulder when Blade goes into a fight.

Philosophía

In case of equipment, something that you can whip out without any prep being specifically done beforehand.

In case of semi-sentient or sentient tools, likes Thor's Mjolnir or Surfer's board, something that you have at you at all times except very particular storylines .

In case of actual characters, something that is intrinsically the character and used to fight at all times , and not something that you only use once in a while, or is a completely separate being .

Stoic

Originally posted by Trackz
in addition, we also dictate standard equipment differently for those characters whose equipment varies (e.g. deadpool, punisher, winter soldier, etc.). with those characters we set it based on equipment they've been shown to have at least semi-regularly or at the very least seem to carry on them with no deliberate planning or preparation. it's why characters like punisher and deadpool get explosives even though there can several story arcs in which they aren't shown or used. we also know that there have been several arcs over a few years where they have used them. setting a standard equipment for characters with varying arsenals as if all equipment should be like the captain america shield wouldn't make sense for them, and it's why people implicitly allow for those characters to take advantage of their varied arsenals.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then Robin suddenly becomes Batman's.

But my point is how do we deal with equipment that ISN'T seen in MOST battles?

Just a suggestion to hopefully put you two at ease, but why not wait for a few more issues to come out to see whether or not Blade even still interacts with BT? I mean imagine if Groot somehow appears, and BT bonds with him to form Devastator (It could happen). I mean that anything could happen. As for now, Blade and BT seem to have a bond that resembles Eddie and the Symbiote, so I'd see nothing wrong with saying that it was his standard equipment, albeit that they're partnering isn't as frequent as Deadpool's katana.

But yeah, it's probably best to wait and see if BT is still with him in 6 months from now.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Stoic
Just a suggestion to hopefully put you two ar ease, but why not wait for a few more issues to come out to see whether or not Blade even still interacts with BT? I mean imagine if Groot somehow appear, and BT bond with him to form Devastor (It could happen). I mean that anything could happen. As for now, Blade and BT seem to have a bond that resembles Eddie and the Symbiote, so I'd see nothing wrong with saying that it was his standard equipment, albeit that they're partnering isn't as frequent as Deadpool's katana.

But yeah, it's probably best to wait and see if BT is still with him in 6 months from now.

Except....he doesn't have a bond like Eddie and the symbiote. This is the lie that some are trying to peddle.

There are many, MANY times where Blade goes into battle with no BT. The War of the Realms, for example.

The Khonshu war.

Even in the current Phoenix storyline, BT is left behind to babysit the Starbrand. BT is his own person.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Did he just compare robin to BT? complete clown laughing out loud

🤦🏼‍♂️

Trackz

Originally posted by Stoic
Just a suggestion to hopefully put you two at ease, but why not wait for a few more issues to come out to see whether or not Blade even still interacts with BT? I mean imagine if Groot somehow appears, and BT bonds with him to form Devastator (It could happen). I mean that anything could happen. As for now, Blade and BT seem to have a bond that resembles Eddie and the Symbiote, so I'd see nothing wrong with saying that it was his standard equipment, albeit that they're partnering isn't as frequent as Deadpool's katana.

But yeah, it's probably best to wait and see if BT is still with him in 6 months from now. my general point is that it's been two years at the time of this thread. i'm fully comfortable from moving on because it's entirely possible there's a future storyline that shifts the nature of boy-thing and he becomes fully independent, in which case that would shift. At the point of this thread though, it's been 2 years.

MrMind

well...my standard equipment would be the dick in my hand

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then Robin suddenly becomes Batman's.

But my point is how do we deal with equipment that ISN'T seen in MOST battles?

Robin isn't a being that can merge with you, he's not like a symbiote like BT is.

MrMind

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Robin isn't a being that can merge with you,

that's not what batman thinks

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except....he doesn't have a bond like Eddie and the symbiote. This is the lie that some are trying to peddle.

There are many, MANY times where Blade goes into battle with no BT. The War of the Realms, for example.

The Khonshu war.

Even in the current Phoenix storyline, BT is left behind to babysit the Starbrand. BT is his own person.

The Klyntar aka the symbiote are also their own personal but uses hosts to have stronger forms, Blade has a good bond with BT, It's WHY It has chosen to stay with Eric and also saved his life. Obviously.

Trackz

And the argument is that consistent possession (especially relative to other equipment) over a period of 2 years would meet the criteria of standard.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Does Batman use everything in his utility belt whenever he fights?

https://i.postimg.cc/rd71JBnq/tenor.gif

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up

Same reason BRB doesn't come equipped with Skuttlebutt in standard versus threads, for example.

Do you think Boy Thing is standard equipment for Blade?

I.e. if someone like say Damborg created a thread and said standard equipment for Blade, do we assume he has Boy Thing?

leonidas

oh ho! sneaky way to try and slip in a mod ruling.... lol

Bentley

Originally posted by Galan007
Examples of Standard Equipment: Boy Thing

Examples of non-Standard Equipment: Anything Batman has used from his belt outside of vanilla Batarangs and his hook-shot

This was the mod ruling DS was expecting

Galan007

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Do you think Boy Thing is standard equipment for Blade?

I.e. if someone like say Damborg created a thread and said standard equipment for Blade, do we assume he has Boy Thing? I don't know enough about Blade to say for sure. /shrug

TheHulkster

Is the Ultimate Nullifier standard for Galactus?

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't know enough about Blade to say for sure. /shrug

Blade boys have been ridiculed on KMC for 20 years, that's all you need to know.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't know enough about Blade to say for sure. /shrug

Lmao fair enough.

So based on Phildo's post:

As Boy Thing is an actual character, I guess Trackz or marcssands or whoever would have to prove that BT is intrinsically a part of Blade and used to fight at all times, not just once in a while.

Or is a completely separate being.

Interesting.

Trackz, can you do so?

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao fair enough.

So based on Phildo's post:

As Boy Thing is an actual character, I guess Trackz or marcssands or whoever would have to prove that BT is intrinsically a part of Blade and used to fight at all times, not just once in a while.

Or is a completely separate being.

Interesting.

Trackz, can you do so?

it's already been done.

majority of his arcs over 2 years since getting him beats the standard of "only once in a while". this is what people have been repeatedly telling you.

boy-thing is bonded to Blade, and that's been shown for the majority of Boy-things appearances.

arguing that boy-thing is a completely separate being when he has been used for symbiotic combat enhancement since his introduction as a character is disingenuous. Your dishonest arguments are exhausting.

DarkSaint85

Nice. So we can get a mod ruling stick out tongue

For Galan and others:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And here is every appearance of Blade in the War of the Realms book proper:

https://i.postimg.cc/tYMpGBfL/09-10.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/18VPmp14/11-16.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/LnX2Wcyt/13-11.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/KKXbRRmf/19-11.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hJ9BxcjB/24-6.jpg

No BT.

That was the War of the Realms itself.

War of the Realms Strikeforce: The Dark Elf Realm:
https://i.postimg.cc/MX3RjLZP/RCO008-1583630224.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/pp9jQBp2/RCO031-1583630224.jpg

No BT.

In Avengers itself, when he fought MAlekith's forces:
https://i.postimg.cc/cgxGFZ3G/RCO003-w-1558531659.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/wtcd537k/RCO018-1561566979.jpg

In King in Black:
https://i.postimg.cc/Y9tyJR9d/RCO005-w-1611167287.jpg
Didn't bring him when he went to deal with Drac, either:
https://i.postimg.cc/VLJHQdfP/RCO015-w-1608739227.jpg

Against Khonshu (so back to the Avengers book):
https://i.postimg.cc/5YV21ZFs/11-14.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/d7dVbqD7/13-8.jpg

In the current Phoenix storyline:
https://i.postimg.cc/nVW8wJHw/15-11.jpg

When going into Hell against the Ghost Rider:
https://i.postimg.cc/L8hjMmvr/RCO005-1571861888.jpg

Now, let us return to what the original post said:

Emphasis mine. Decision, yours. You have all read Trackz's posts. He said:

I've just posted....15-16 issues of Blade, fighting, WITHOUT Boy Thing. Out of ~30-40 issues of comics, of which Blade only appears ~20 times (he doesn't appear in every single issue of Avengers, some are flashbacks to the past etc), and out of which Blade doesn't FIGHT every single issue (him chilling around in the base doesn't count as a fight, lmao).

Anyway, am happy to draw a line under this if people wish to give a ruling or not.

But under the terms of Phildo's post, which Galan agrees with, Blade clearly does NOT use BT to fight at all times. The reasons may vary, or it may not even be explained - but the indisputable fact is, Blade does not carry BT into every single battle.

I'm not even talking about USING BT - I am talking about Blade even taking it onto the field. Which he clearly doesn't, as you can clearly see no BT on his shoulder.

AlbertoJohnAvil

You do know that standard equipment is changed or upgraded based on current arcs and current showings....

DarkSaint85

Cool. Not my point.

-Pr-

This... the Blade thing is that much of a sore point?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by -Pr-
This... the Blade thing is that much of a sore point?

Well I am wondering if A: I am being blind to other arguments, and B: have I misunderstood forum rules this entire time.

If standard equipment can include items/characters that aren't seen that often in comics (and I'm not talking about USING, but even just carrying into combat), then that's very different to how I've been seeing things.

My point being Blade, in the past two years since he met Boy Thing, has multiple instances of not even bringing BT to the battlefield - yet it's standard equipment according to Trackz. My interpretation is closer to Phildo's.

So what IS standard equipment?

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well I am wondering if A: I am being blind to other arguments, and B: have I misunderstood forum rules this entire time.

If standard equipment can include items/characters that aren't seen that often in comics (and I'm not talking about USING, but even just carrying into combat), then that's very different to how I've been seeing things.

My point being Blade, in the past two years since he met Boy Thing, has multiple instances of not even bringing BT to the battlefield - yet it's standard equipment according to Trackz. My interpretation is closer to Phildo's.

So what IS standard equipment?

Batman is RARELY show using all the equipment that is standard, He's also rarely bringing them into combat (He literally switches things around). Atleast try to be fair to both sides, you can't have one.

DarkSaint85

But like I said many times, we don't KNOW what Batman brings in his belt. If you can, with 100% certainty, tell me EXACTLY what he has in his belt, then sure, I concede.

On the other hand, I can with 100% certainty post examples of Blade NOT even bringing BT into battle. L

leonidas

Originally posted by -Pr-
This... the Blade thing is that much of a sore point?

.........

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well I am wondering if A: I am being blind to other arguments, and B: have I misunderstood forum rules this entire time.

If standard equipment can include items/characters that aren't seen that often in comics (and I'm not talking about USING, but even just carrying into combat), then that's very different to how I've been seeing things.

My point being Blade, in the past two years since he met Boy Thing, has multiple instances of not even bringing BT to the battlefield - yet it's standard equipment according to Trackz. My interpretation is closer to Phildo's.

So what IS standard equipment?

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Batman is RARELY show using all the equipment that is standard, He's also rarely bringing them into combat (He literally switches things around). Atleast try to be fair to both sides, you can't have one.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But like I said many times, we don't KNOW what Batman brings in his belt. If you can, with 100% certainty, tell me EXACTLY what he has in his belt, then sure, I concede.

On the other hand, I can with 100% certainty post examples of Blade NOT even bringing BT into battle. L

so....yes. laughing out loud

AlbertoJohnAvil

SO you admit there isn't 100% certainty that Batman always cares what you kept showing about his standard gear as you said you don't know.

DarkSaint85

I know for certain Blade doesn't bring BT around all of the time, so he's not standard. I can prove this easily.

OTOH, it's on you (or anyone else) to prove Batman doesn't bring X around all the time with him.

See how this fairness works?

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know for certain Blade doesn't bring BT around all of the time, so he's not standard. I can prove this easily.

OTOH, it's on you (or anyone else) to prove Batman doesn't bring X around all the time with him.

See how this fairness works?

OK, Do you have 100% certainty that Batman ALWAYS has what he has or do you have doubts, Yes or no?

CosmicComet

Standard for Blade: Everything he has ever used even once

Standard for Batman: Exactly 5 batarangs (dulled so they dont take off human limbs) and his grappling hook. Anything else has to be specified as a prep related thread.

Please make this ruling happen.

StiltmanFTW

Standard for Punisher:

- Rulkbuster armor

- Ultimate Nullifier

- Grand Nixon Island nuke

- Powers of Angels, Frankenstein, Dr. Strange and Venom

- steamroller

Trackz

The answer is yes, you are being blind to arguments. And like I've repeatedly said you've been willfully ignorant to said arguments. As has been noted Blade has been depicted with boy-thing the majority of his arca for the last 2 years. When he's not depicted with it, it has been syayed or shown why with the exception of the Khonshu arc. You brought back King in Black point, so now you're lying once again to try and get a favorable moderator ruling when they clearly are not interested in this.

To anyone that cares the point is simply Blade has been shown with boy-thing more consistently than any of his other equipment over the last 2 years save his swords. For characters with variable equipment, we use their most consistent showings. DS purely for the sake of protecting his ego I guess has shifted it to standard use and is showing arcs in which its shown why Blade isn't using boy-thing for combat but is shown using him for other things (e.g. War of Realms, doesn't use him to fight, is shown using him to travel between missions) or is attempting an absence of evidence argument (e.g. Blade hasn't been shown with BT in King in Black therefore he doesn't have him inexplicably, even though the event is on-goijg and we have advertisements for the event in the future showing that Blade uses BT).

Its been fairly clear for everyone else who has read through the arguments that BT is standard for Blade, and as multiple users began making that point DS panics and make this thread.

Its been 2 years since Blade got BT, and has made use of him in every major arc, save for the Khonshu arc and the current arc so far where he decides that BT should look after a baby while he guards the outside of the base, with clear evidence he will be using him in the next major arc. If 2 years of consistent possession isn't standard for a character with varied arsenal, then to the point there's no reason to assume batman has everything in his belt. Especially since we've seen Blade can have BT do other things. The only counter argument is the exact absence of evidence argument that DS is arguing is insufficient for the belt.

Like I said in BOTH threads though. Its been fairly clear to everyone else involved and I'd be happy to engage in the other threads with people who are interested in having honest debates about it. Not people who continue to make dishonest arguments and lie. This isn't that serious and makes the whole thing worse for everyone involved.

StiltmanFTW

You only love Blade because he is black.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Trackz
The answer is yes, you are being blind to arguments. And like I've repeatedly said you've been willfully ignorant to said arguments. As has been noted Blade has been depicted with boy-thing the majority of his arca for the last 2 years. When he's not depicted with it, it has been syayed or shown why with the exception of the Khonshu arc. You brought back King in Black point, so now you're lying once again to try and get a favorable moderator ruling when they clearly are not interested in this.

To anyone that cares the point is simply Blade has been shown with boy-thing more consistently than any of his other equipment over the last 2 years save his swords. For characters with variable equipment, we use their most consistent showings. DS purely for the sake of protecting his ego I guess has shifted it to standard use and is showing arcs in which its shown why Blade isn't using boy-thing for combat but is shown using him for other things (e.g. War of Realms, doesn't use him to fight, is shown using him to travel between missions) or is attempting an absence of evidence argument (e.g. Blade hasn't been shown with BT in King in Black therefore he doesn't have him inexplicably, even though the event is on-goijg and we have advertisements for the event in the future showing that Blade uses BT).

Its been fairly clear for everyone else who has read through the arguments that BT is standard for Blade, and as multiple users began making that point DS panics and make this thread.

Its been 2 years since Blade got BT, and has made use of him in every major arc, save for the Khonshu arc and the current arc so far where he decides that BT should look after a baby while he guards the outside of the base, with clear evidence he will be using him in the next major arc. If 2 years of consistent possession isn't standard for a character with varied arsenal, then to the point there's no reason to assume batman has everything in his belt. Especially since we've seen Blade can have BT do other things. The only counter argument is the exact absence of evidence argument that DS is arguing is insufficient for the belt.

Like I said in BOTH threads though. Its been fairly clear to everyone else involved and I'd be happy to engage in the other threads with people who are interested in having honest debates about it. Not people who continue to make dishonest arguments and lie. This isn't that serious and makes the whole thing worse for everyone involved.

Also, Symbiotes are living beings too that merge.

Trackz

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You only love Blade because he is black. facts

StyleTime

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But like I said many times, we don't KNOW what Batman brings in his belt. If you can, with 100% certainty, tell me EXACTLY what he has in his belt, then sure, I concede.

On the other hand, I can with 100% certainty post examples of Blade NOT even bringing BT into battle. L
Hmm, I'd actually push back against that a little. I understand what you mean, and it's totally fine if we're just nerding out and trying to establish canon. In a VS discussion though, it's too close to asking everyone to prove a negative. We can't show you what's not in the belt, but we can paint a pretty reasonable picture of his standard options.

I thought about making this thread myself, as it's a point of contention for certain characters/matchups. Not singling out Bats here either. Over the years, I've seen folks try to sneak in some off the wall items for their favorite characters. Was wondering if maybe my idea of standard equipment was different from others.

StiltmanFTW

Batman holds X-23 in one of his bat-pockets.

StyleTime

Good point Stilt. The Muramasa Armor is standard for X-23. The mods agree. thumb up

StiltmanFTW

Enigma Force is standard for her, too.

While Wolverine has the full access to the Phoenix Force, Time Bat and Crystal of Ultimate Vision.

StyleTime

We're the only ones who understand the rules.

DarkSaint85

I'd go further than that, and as we always take most recent versions, the Phoenix Force is standard for Logan thumb up

-Pr-

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well I am wondering if A: I am being blind to other arguments, and B: have I misunderstood forum rules this entire time.

If standard equipment can include items/characters that aren't seen that often in comics (and I'm not talking about USING, but even just carrying into combat), then that's very different to how I've been seeing things.

My point being Blade, in the past two years since he met Boy Thing, has multiple instances of not even bringing BT to the battlefield - yet it's standard equipment according to Trackz. My interpretation is closer to Phildo's.

So what IS standard equipment?

Honestly, my general idea has always been to look at the last arc they were in, so around 6 issues or so. I see if they were using said item, or if they at least had it on them during the issues. If they did, I think it's fair game as that's the most recent version.

I mean, if it's not, then all people have to do when making threads is specified in the OP that the character has the item with them.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, my general idea has always been to look at the last arc they were in, so around 6 issues or so. I see if they were using said item, or if they at least had it on them during the issues. If they did, I think it's fair game as that's the most recent version.

I mean, if it's not, then all people have to do when making threads is specified in the OP that the character has the item with them.

That's the thing - based on this, Blade doesn't have BT. So your idea chimes with mine.

Thanks.

Bentley

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Standard for Blade: Everything he has ever used even once

Standard for Batman: Exactly 5 batarangs (dulled so they dont take off human limbs) and his grappling hook. Anything else has to be specified as a prep related thread.

Please make this ruling happen.

This dude gets it

h1a8

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This can be a versus thread if people want it to be.

So, am sure a lot of you have seen the Blade threads.

Do we consider Boy-Thing a part of his standard arsenal? By this I mean, is it what he brings INTO battle?

Doesn't have to actually USE it, but just so we know he carries it.

Per forum rules:

And how many instances does it have to be? Boy-Thing appeared in Avengers #17, we are now on Avengers #42 - and in addition, Blade has appeared in War of the Realms (6 issues, plus any tie-ins), and the King in Black storyline (twice, I think). So that is a good ~30-40 issues of appearances.

I'm not talking about scenes of Blade chilling in Avengers Mountain with BT on his shoulder - that's just chilling. I am talking about in BATTLE.

Trackz and I obviously don't see eye to eye on this, but what do others think?

If there is a question about particular equipment then the OP can easily clarify.

It would be the same thing as creating a thread with particular stips.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by h1a8
If there is a question about particular equipment then the OP can easily clarify.

It would be the same thing as creating a thread with particular stips.

thumb up

am asking for threads where it's too late for clarifications.

DarkSaint85

Agreed. That doesn't change the initial question though, which iswhat is considered standard equipment...I mean, even in this thread, we have several posters (i.e. Phildo, Galan, Pr) agreeing with my reading and understanding of the rules, and some (i.e. Albert and Trackz) disagreeing.

That would easily derail a thread (see Batman/Blade lol).

DarkSaint85

Edit: should've said #33, Khonshu.. Blade doesn't even have BT on him, lol. The last time we saw him with Blade(#32), Blade was leaving the Avengers Mountain with ALL of his worldly possessions.

I mean, if you move house, am I suddenly going to count EVERYTHING you have with you as 'standard Leo'? Come on now lol.

But this discussion is proving my point that it should be hashed out. As per Pr's reasoning, using the past six issues would have no BT as standard.

Using your reasoning of longer term...is where Trackz and I differ. As I outline in my list above (which anyone can check), there are MANY issues where Blade doesn't bring BT with him. The further back you go, the more issues show up with Blade fighting without BT.

And that doesn't include tie in issues, side issues etc. For example, in the War of the Realms books, Blade is NOT shown fighting Malekith's forces with BT. In the KiB book, Blade is NOT shown Knull's forces, or the vampires in Ukraine with BT.

Philosophía

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
sad

Now I KNOW you didn't read my posts.

Last major arc was Khonshu, issues #32-37. No BT. Trackz acknowledges this point, at least, and we agree on THAT.

The last time Blade fought with BT, it w as issue #30. The last time we even SAW Blade with BT, it was issue #32. Hm. How does it count at standard equipment if he doesn't standardly have it help him at all times?

Wouldn't that defeat the point of standard?

I don't think think we have "occasional equipment".

h1a8

I agree. If Blade doesn't always have BT all the time, especially that last few issues, then it wouldn't be standard equipment.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Edit: should've said #33, Khonshu.. Blade doesn't even have BT on him, lol. The last time we saw him with Blade(#32), Blade was leaving the Avengers Mountain with ALL of his worldly possessions.

I mean, if you move house, am I suddenly going to count EVERYTHING you have with you as 'standard Leo'? Come on now lol.

But this discussion is proving my point that it should be hashed out. As per Pr's reasoning, using the past six issues would have no BT as standard.

Using your reasoning of longer term...is where Trackz and I differ. As I outline in my list above (which anyone can check), there are MANY issues where Blade doesn't bring BT with him. The further back you go, the more issues show up with Blade fighting without BT.

And that doesn't include tie in issues, side issues etc. For example, in the War of the Realms books, Blade is NOT shown fighting Malekith's forces with BT. In the KiB book, Blade is NOT shown Knull's forces, or the vampires in Ukraine with BT.

Batman doesn't standerly have ALOT of his stuff rithrt but is it not standard? 🤔

Trackz

re: philosophia's point it's pretty simple:

1. for the past 2 years, Blade has used boy-thing in every major arc, save for the Khonshu arc. what boy-thing has been used for has differed. We see him kill the Shadow Colonel with BT when he first bonds with him. He has him all of the Ghost Rider arc, until BT is injured by cosmic ghost rider. He has BT with him for their entire space mission. DS made the point that BT was missing during war of the realms, but we see at the end of that arc that BT was being used by Blade to travel to missions. In the most recent arc, he's asked BT to protect the starbrand while he guards the outside of the avengers base. The Khonshu is the only arc where he's inexplicably missing, but for every other arc for the past 2 years, Blade is either shown with BT or shown what he was using BT for if not combat.

2. Characters like Blade have variable equipment, and most often, to your original point, we use what they bring with them on missions the most consistently. Blade has used BT more than he has used his guns, stakes, or any other weaponry save his swords the past 2 years. If you were to count Blade's equipment use, it beats out virtually everything else that we count as standard in his threads.

AlbertoJohnAvil

What happens if you can do a list of comics where half of batman's gear you don't see or he uses?
Is it still standard for Batman?

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by h1a8
I agree. If Blade doesn't always have BT all the time, especially that last few issues, then it wouldn't be standard equipment.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
What happens if you can do a list of comics where half of batman's gear you don't see or he uses?
Is it still standard for Batman?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Trackz
re: philosophia's point it's pretty simple:

1. for the past 2 years, Blade has used boy-thing in every major arc, save for the Khonshu arc. what boy-thing has been used for has differed. We see him kill the Shadow Colonel with BT when he first bonds with him. He has him all of the Ghost Rider arc, until BT is injured by cosmic ghost rider. He has BT with him for their entire space mission. DS made the point that BT was missing during war of the realms, but we see at the end of that arc that BT was being used by Blade to travel to missions. In the most recent arc, he's asked BT to protect the starbrand while he guards the outside of the avengers base. The Khonshu is the only arc where he's inexplicably missing, but for every other arc for the past 2 years, Blade is either shown with BT or shown what he was using BT for if not combat.

2. Characters like Blade have variable equipment, and most often, to your original point, we use what they bring with them on missions the most consistently. Blade has used BT more than he has used his guns, stakes, or any other weaponry save his swords the past 2 years. If you were to count Blade's equipment use, it beats out virtually everything else that we count as standard in his threads.

But your post basically says "Blade's standard equipment (as per DS' weird criteria) is a pair of swords".

AlbertoJohnAvil

a good example would be an dragonzord for the green ranger.
It's standard just gets summoned.

Your definition of standard is someone using something regularly which batman doesn't use things that are standard (kryptonite, Gas pellets etc) regularly.

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But your post basically says "Blade's standard equipment (as per DS' weird criteria) is a pair of swords". Exactly. and I'm saying that precisely because of that, your position is ridiculous. I'm saying, implicitly, we all acknowledge in threads with characters such as Blade with varying arsenals, it makes no sense to apply that standard and we have NEVER applied that standard. My argument is based on precedent and the fact that no one would have had an issue if I had brought up Blade's guns, which he has used intermittently throughout the past couple of years, and is sometimes depicted without them, with his stakes, which he has used intermittently throughout the past couple of years, and is sometimes depicted without them, or with any random piece of equipment that he showed himself to be carrying without prior prep (tazers, glaives, bolas, explosives, etc.) , even if only used a couple of times in the last few years because precedent for characters with variable equipment is typically and simply: they're often shown to use this without prior prep. You follow that precedent and implicit understanding with Batman. People follow it with Deadpool and people FOLLOWED it with Blade, until his equipment became the type of thing that could shift a match. This is why I have repeatedly called the argument dishonest. Because it's not actually about the precedent of standard equipment or how we have implicitly used it or what is deliberately stated, it's about creating an arbitrary standard simply to win an argument. You said it yourself in the Batman vs. Blade thread, when you referenced years of Blade being shown with guns as a reason you were comfortable acknowledging him having them, even they weren't shown consistently as of recent. However, when this applies to BT, who Blade has had for years at this point, it is a major sticking point.

Philosophía

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But your post basically says "Blade's standard equipment (as per DS' weird criteria) is a pair of swords". And a wodden stake that he keeps in his trousers, if you catch my drift.

StiltmanFTW

Fake fangs and cheap sunglasses are Blade's standard equipment.

h1a8

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Batman doesn't standerly have ALOT of his stuff rithrt but is it not standard? 🤔

False premise. You have to prove that Batman doesnt have a lot of his stuff in order for your conclusion to be valid. Not pulled out =/= doesn't have.

DarkSaint85

Omg Pr women aren't equipment.

But that's a good point with Batman's mechanical suits. We can treat them the same as Boy Thing, which is that it needs to be specified. Otherwise it's not standard - because there are many times Blade has gone into a fight with no BT. They are OBVIOUSLY not THAT symbiotically linked, because....Blade fights just fine without BT.

StiltmanFTW

Pr is the greatest misogynist on KMC thumb up

I'm proud of him.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Omg Pr women aren't equipment.

But that's a good point with Batman's mechanical suits. We can treat them the same as Boy Thing, which is that it needs to be specified. Otherwise it's not standard - because there are many times Blade has gone into a fight with no BT. They are OBVIOUSLY not THAT symbiotically linked, because....Blade fights just fine without BT.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Okay, first of all, Batman doesn't count in this discussion. His utility belt is treated by writers as, essentially, a Bag of Holding that 99% of the time has exactly what he needs for a situation.

It's only when we get in to things like Mechanical armour etc that we have to take a second.

==

Truthfully, I only look back that far (usually) because by and large, characters generally don't change that much. If the current writer is say, Hickman, and he's been working on a book for eight or nine months, then sure, I'll look at those too, because that's the current version of the character.

The only time standard equipment had repeatedly come up for me in the threads I've read has been with Aquaman. Every new writer wants to reinvent the ****ing wheel, so they change his trident. Give him new magic powers. Take away his magic powers. Take away his trident. Get rid of Mera. Bring Mera back. Have Mera love him. Have Mera hate him. Have Mera be the star of the book.

It gets annoying.

Boy thing can be used as gear/equipment due to it becoming armor, a glider, and weapons
Similar to Symbiotes like conan and his Symbiote sword, Knull and the all black and so on.

Philosophía

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Pr is the greatest misogynist on KMC thumb up

I'm proud of him. Pr has at least 3 women ready to fight for him at all times.

Bentley

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Omg Pr women aren't equipment.

Batman equips Robin. Unequips Robin. Equips Robin. Unequips Robin.

Trackz

leonidas

Originally posted by -Pr-
Okay, first of all, Batman doesn't count in this discussion. His utility belt is treated by writers as, essentially, a Bag of Holding that 99% of the time has exactly what he needs for a situation.

It's only when we get in to things like Mechanical armour etc that we have to take a second.

==

Truthfully, I only look back that far (usually) because by and large, characters generally don't change that much. If the current writer is say, Hickman, and he's been working on a book for eight or nine months, then sure, I'll look at those too, because that's the current version of the character.

The only time standard equipment had repeatedly come up for me in the threads I've read has been with Aquaman. Every new writer wants to reinvent the ****ing wheel, so they change his trident. Give him new magic powers. Take away his magic powers. Take away his trident. Get rid of Mera. Bring Mera back. Have Mera love him. Have Mera hate him. Have Mera be the star of the book.

It gets annoying.

laughing out loud

i feel like that has been building up for a while, but i think i get what you're saying here--aquaman sucks. and so do women. thumb up

but to the other point--it's pretty easily solved--put the stip in the OP. put BT in the OP in a blade match. that doesn't really address the overall point though about what IS standard--ie, what needs a stip and what doesn't.

trackz showed BT has appeared in a certain high percentage of blade-related material over the last couple years. ds has argued that it isn't enough. the question is easy--how frequently does something need to appear to be standard? i don't consider herc's mace standard, though it could be seen that way. namor's water suit if he'll be away from water for a long while. standard? what about HIS trident? i'm not trying to get you to make a backhanded mod ruling, i'm genuinely curious because it seems people really do have differing opinions. let's say over the last couple years BT has been in 8/10 arcs (not sure if that's right, but just an example). is that sufficient do you think to be considered standard? 7/10?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

i feel like that has been building up for a while, but i think i get what you're saying here--aquaman sucks. and so do women. thumb up

leonidas

but using trackz argument (that i long ago stopped attending):

so my question to pr is IF this is true and taken at face value, would you consider it enough to be standard equipment?

again, i could not care less about this specific example--if this is true, based on how i understood pr's explanation, this WOULD be enough.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by leonidas
but using trackz argument (that i long ago stopped attending):

so my question to pr is IF this is true and taken at face value, would you consider it enough to be standard equipment?

again, i could not care less about this specific example--if this is true, based on how i understood pr's explanation, this WOULD be enough.

Thing is, If this were true, it would be enough.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
BT appears in Avengers #17.
#18, War of the Realms. No BT
#19 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#20 - Blade is shown fighting, no BT
#21 - The scans above-Blade is shown with BT going off to fight vamps. War of the Realms is EXPLICITLY over. Blade fights using BT
#22 - Blade is with BT as they stand around talking
#23 - Cosmic GR attacks, Blade sends BT away when fighting starts No BT fighting with Blade.
#24 - Blade fights with the breathing gun (first time); no BT
#25 - Blade is fighting in Hell, no BT
#26 - flashback, no Blade
#27 - Blade walking around and talking, no BT(except when he gives a rose to Black Widow). Fast forward to a few weeks later, then they are in GR's car.
#28 - they're in GR's car, Blade is dying
#29 - The surfer feat (BT's idea, not Blade's) Blade fights using BT
#30 - Gladiator feat Blade fights using BT
#31 - No Blade, only Stark
#32 - Blade is about to leave with BT, gets talked back by Widow
#32 - no BT
#33 -no BT
#34 -noBT
#35 -noBT
#36 -no BT
#37- ; no BT these past issues are the Khonshu arc
#38 - Blade is shown, no BT
#39 - Flashback
#40 - Blade fights when Namor attacks; no BT
#41 - no Blade
#42 - It's shown BT is babysitting. no BT fighting with Blade.
.

However, it is not true.

leonidas

coolio. like i said, i lost track(z) of the arguments a long time ago--my trolling of you periodically notwithstanding. thumb up

StiltmanFTW

I'm not sure on whose side leo is here.

shifty

qwertyuiop1998

For straights, You dudes have too much concern about a man's boy thing shifty

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
For straights, You dudes have too much concern about a man's boy thing shifty

Welcome to KMC.

We're all gay here, but only zopzop was brave enough to admit it.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by leonidas
coolio. like i said, i lost track(z) of the arguments a long time ago--my trolling of you periodically notwithstanding. thumb up

you addressed my point though--if it was true that would be enough. how the two of you can literally look at the same arcs and come up with different numbers is quite literally beyond me.

in the last 20 issues of blade-related books, how many times has bt appeared? it's a number. the semantics are blurring the argument--the way you guys are tackling it is like trying to decide what's a catch in the nfl nowadays--making something very simple, really complicated.

But that's the point.

BT HASN'T appeared that often in the past 20 issues of Blade-related books.

That is literally my point. You really misunderstood my argument, lol. It's a pure and simple number.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Welcome to KMC.

We're all gay here, but only zopzop was brave enough to admit it.

And Bentley.....
wink

cdtm

Not like Blade needs whatever we're talking about (I assume a force field suit)

According to cinemablend, Blade is more powerful then Morbius.

cdtm

DarkSaint85

As I said, don't buy what he was peddling. Really, I was only looking out for you, lol.

LordGod

my question is- how many times in the last 2 years has Blade used BT in combat scenarios?

Weigh that against all of the combat scenarios he's had over the same period of time and you'll get your answer.

StiltmanFTW

According to DS' post, it happened... twice?

Against some ultra-tough powerhouses, so it makes sense he would need all help he could get...

Trackz

Yea, so we're just going to lie our way through this one I guess.

Originally posted by Trackz
#17 - Blade has BT
#19 - Blade does not have BT
#20 - Blade does not have BT
#21 - Blade has BT - shown that Blade has been using BT for travel for independent missions
#22 - Blade has BT
#23 - Blade has BT
#24 - Blade has BT - rescues BT, who is injured in the fight
#25 - Blade does not have BT
#27 - Blade has BT
#28 - Blade has BT
#29 - Blade has BT
#30 - Blade has BT

#32 - Blade has BT
#33 - Blade does not have BT
#34 - Blade does not have BT
#35 - Blade does not have BT
#36 - Blade does not have BT
#38 - Blade does not have BT
#40 - Blade fights when Namor attacks; no BT
#42 - It is stated why Blade did not have BT in the previous issue

In Blade's appearances, he has BT in over half. Times when he does not have BT, it is stated why. DS has re-defined "Blade has BT" such that in an issue in which BT hops off Blade to protect him and is subsequently injured, it no longer counts as "has BT". He's redefined as BT getting injured and thus removed from battle as an issue in which Blade "doesn't have BT".

Like I've stated there is a single exception, the Khonshu arc, in which it isn't explicable why Blade doesn't have BT. Other than that?

https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/blade-boy-thing.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=381

https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Avengers-32-spoilers-4-e1583985282181-300x190.jpg

https://i.redd.it/ryv7cbsz1yd41.png

https://i.imgur.com/3HFi1TD.png

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a99faf1639140af51c7335074281bf01/tumblr_puf5qgF0yB1w2tgilo5_1280.jpg

https://64.media.tumblr.com/24cb740783bbdb60fa3ba58b5a4958d5/tumblr_pwxz0pEz8E1sqep2mo2_500.png

https://i.redd.it/ryv7cbsz1yd41.png

Trackz

Boy-thing bios:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/boy-thing/4005-154836/

"Boy-Thing defected and bonded with Blade, serving the same purpose for him as Shadow Colonel."

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Boy-Thing_(Earth-616)

"partner of Blade"

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix8/boythingav.htm

basically every description mentions Blade...I'm curious where you found a bio that didn't mention him

StiltmanFTW

Sexual partner thumb up

Trackz

And again, if I haven't made it clear, the reason why the numbers are so wildly different is because one of us is lying to prove an argument.

Clear example. DS states Avengers #22 is Blade standing around talking. Not evidence for his criteria of him fighting while having BT.

Here is that issue:

https://i.imgur.com/R9NcZf1.png

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Trackz

Like I've stated there is a single exception, the Khonshu arc, in which it isn't explicable why Blade doesn't have BT. Other than that?

https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/blade-boy-thing.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=381

https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Avengers-32-spoilers-4-e1583985282181-300x190.jpg

https://i.redd.it/ryv7cbsz1yd41.png

https://i.imgur.com/3HFi1TD.png

https://64.media.tumblr.com/a99faf1639140af51c7335074281bf01/tumblr_puf5qgF0yB1w2tgilo5_1280.jpg

https://64.media.tumblr.com/24cb740783bbdb60fa3ba58b5a4958d5/tumblr_pwxz0pEz8E1sqep2mo2_500.png

https://i.redd.it/ryv7cbsz1yd41.png

Lol, are these ALL the examples you could find?

Looks impressive guys, it really does.

Let's ACTUALLY take a look at what he is peddling.

1. https://static0.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/blade-boy-thing.jpg?q=50&fit=crop&w=740&h=381
#17. OK.

2.https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Avengers-32-spoilers-4-e1583985282181-300x190.jpg
#32, where Blade is - AS I WAS SAYING just standing around with BT, chatting.

3. https://i.redd.it/ryv7cbsz1yd41.png
The famous issue where BT decides to fight with Blade Issue#30.

4. https://i.imgur.com/3HFi1TD.png
Wait, BT isn't fighting with Blade....

5. https://64.media.tumblr.com/a99faf1639140af51c7335074281bf01/tumblr_puf5qgF0yB1w2tgilo5_1280.jpg
Issue #21 - which I said.

6. https://64.media.tumblr.com/24cb740783bbdb60fa3ba58b5a4958d5/tumblr_pwxz0pEz8E1sqep2mo2_500.png
Wait, BT isn't - I thought you were posting examples of....

7. https://i.redd.it/ryv7cbsz1yd41.png
This looks familiar....issue #30?

So 7 apparently clear cut examples from Trackz, detailing EVERY TIME apparently, that Blade fights with BT.

Since Avengers #17-42, across War of the Realsm, King in Black, etc.

And of those 7, 2 are repeated scans, 1 is Blade standing around chatting, and 2 are from the same issue where Blade is NOT fighting symbiotically with Blade lmao

Great proof. HOWEVER, he does bring up ANOTHER scan:

8. https://i.imgur.com/R9NcZf1.png

Which I missed.

Guessd that is because in the very next issue, when it comes to fight:

https://i.postimg.cc/k4YhgmBV/RCO006-1566988328-1.jpg
Blade EXPLICITLY does not bring BT into battle, lol. And shown by Trackz' own scans - Blade sent him away, he came back of his own accord.

So, 8 scans from Trackz. Really, 7 because two are repeated. 1 is Blade standing around chatting, not even in battle (I wonder why the crop??)_So we are down to 6.

Of those 6, two scans are BT FIGHTING ON HIS OWN (I never said he couldn't, btw - just that he isn't symbiotically linked to Blade like Eddie/Venom). So we are down to 4 scans.

Nice. 4 scans, over 2 years, and....what, from 3 issues? 4?

I can post 3x the amount of scans where Blade doesn't bring BT on a mission. For a character that doesn't exactly have many appearances like Wolverine.

Trackz

Again, the fact that in your definition, boy-thing protecting Blade and then Blade protecting boy-thing doesn't qualify as them fighting together is warped. The fact that you ignore context to argue "look Blade doesn't bring boy-thing to hell" as if we don't see boy-thing injured by cosmic ghost rider and then not seen again for that arc is warped. If someone is disarmed during a fight and doesn't have said equipment next issue because of that, it doesn't mean the equipment is no longer standard. As I've repeatedly stated, the fact that it needs to be narratives stated or depicted why Blade doesn't have boy-thing is the opposite of evidence for your position.

And no, that isn't every example and I didnt state it as such. Its to demonstrate your consistent dishonesty because at this point that continues to be all there is to this argument. People have acknowledged that based on the number of appearances I've outlined that itd make sense if BT were standard equipment. Your ONLY argument has been to apply a bizarre, restrictive standard that apparently precludes literal fights that Blade has had with BT (e.g. Blade fighting Blaze possessing Robbie's car) or times in which Blade and BT have protected one another during a fight.

The fact that people are reading your posts and under the impression that BT has fought with Blade only twice is hilarious. You've consistently lied.

DarkSaint85

BT is defending ALL of them (in Avengers Mountain).

People are actually just trolling me (leo, who isn't even reading your posts lol).

Everyone else is actually on my side.

But sure. Post more instances. Like I said, I can post more instances of Blade not even bringing BT to a battlefield.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up

Same reason BRB doesn't come equipped with Skuttlebutt in standard versus threads, for example.

Nice.

Thanks Galan.

AlbertoJohnAvil

I guess I'll concede on this one, saint argument seems fair.

Boy thing does not meet loose definitions of "standard gear" in so far as there is more then ample evidence he is not readily available to blade in random situations the same manner blades swords or other vamp killing tools are, Blade actively excludes him from situations, and nor does he really fall under the same standards as the klyntar as far as a symbiotic pairing as he isn't bonded to blade in similar fashion and as such does not reside on, or in his person, except when traveling together of which again we've seen ample evidence of him not being brought to encounters. By any metric boy thing is either A) an extra person not unique to the character (i.e. megazord is unique summon for power rangers example) or b) special equipment blade specifically has to bring to an encounter or plot has to make readily available (i.e. items like specialized batsuits, the batwing, or the seismic gauntlets). As is blade and boything are a unique combo fusion similar to BM & Spectrum or Goku/Vegeta, not a symbiotic pairing like Venom/Brock. At the end of said task that required the fusion they revert back to their original states as separate entities where as those bonded to klyntar dont seperate unless forced apart

Boy thing isn't really standard equipment, it's a character.
Symbiotes wouldn't fall under equipment as they are living beings that through symbiosis create a geshalt character.
Batman is still Batman without his equipment. Equipment is the weapons and tools used consistently through the character life cycle.

Good discussion though lmao

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
BT is defending ALL of them (in Avengers Mountain).

People are actually just trolling me (leo, who isn't even reading your posts lol).

Everyone else is actually on my side.

But sure. Post more instances. Like I said, I can post more instances of Blade not even bringing BT to a battlefield. like I said, people making your argument are suddenly under the impression that Blade has only used BT to fight twice. Your entire position has been to consistently misrepresent the actual evidence

Trackz

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I guess I'll concede on this one, saint argument seems fair.

Boy thing does not meet loose definitions of "standard gear" in so far as there is more then ample evidence he is not readily available to blade in random situations the same manner blades swords or other vamp killing tools are, Blade actively excludes him from situations, and nor does he really fall under the same standards as the klyntar as far as a symbiotic pairing as he isn't bonded to blade in similar fashion and as such does not reside on, or in his person, except when traveling together of which again we've seen ample evidence of him not being brought to encounters. By any metric boy thing is either A) an extra person not unique to the character (i.e. megazord is unique summon for power rangers example) or b) special equipment blade specifically has to bring to an encounter or plot has to make readily available (i.e. items like specialized batsuits, the batwing, or the seismic gauntlets). As is blade and boything are a unique combo fusion similar to BM & Spectrum or Goku/Vegeta, not a symbiotic pairing like Venom/Brock. At the end of said task that required the fusion they revert back to their original states as separate entities where as those bonded to klyntar dont seperate unless forced apart

Boy thing isn't really standard equipment, it's a character.
Symbiotes wouldn't fall under equipment as they are living beings that through symbiosis create a geshalt character.
Batman is still Batman without his equipment. Equipment is the weapons and tools used consistently through the character life cycle.

Good discussion though lmao

Your point B is actually the inverse, which is what has been misrepresented. Blade tends to be depicted with BT unless explained by the plot why he's not, rather than the inverse (plot has to explain why he has him).

I'd honestly just recommend people read boy-things appearances. He has been consistently used as and debuted as equipment via symbiotic relationship. Blade has built a relationship with him because, unlike Shadow Colonel, he doesn't chain him.

Re:Blade's vampire hunting equipment, Blade has been demonstrated with BT more than the majority of his vampire hunting equipment over the past 2 years. This is the point.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Trackz
Your point B is actually the inverse, which is what has been misrepresented. Blade tends to be depicted with BT unless explained by the plot why he's not, rather than the inverse (plot has to explain why he has him).

The specific definition of standard is the norm. Boy-Thing isn't the norm for Blade. A good example would be Spidey when he had his Captain Universe powers. He used it multiple times but it wasn't standard for him. Reason being is because he only had those powers for a short time despite him using those powers multiple times. Using something multiple times doesn't automatically make something standard.

Trackz

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The specific definition of standard is the norm. Boy-Thing isn't the norm for Blade. A good example would be Spidey when he had his Captain Universe powers. He used it multiple times but it wasn't standard for him. Reason being is because he only had those powers for a short time despite him using those powers multiple times. Using something multiple times doesn't automatically make something standard.

I agree, and so my point is if that person has something for 2 years, at that point it becomes standard. If Spiderman had captain universe powers over 2 years, and only used them against tougher foes, itd still be standard.

AlbertoJohnAvil

lol just see your edit, The symbiote is not standard equipment, venom is simply the combination of Eddie and the symbiote. Everyone knows it would be stupid to say venom without the symbiote knowing that's just Eddie Brock.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Trackz
I agree, and so my point is if that person has something for 2 years, at that point it becomes standard. If Spiderman had captain universe powers over 2 years, and only used them against tougher foes, itd still be standard.

for starters you have to actually be equipment......Boy thing is a whole ass character, nexus creature to be exact. Something being standard equipment is what you can say a character consistently uses as EQUIPMENT in a majority of storylines featured. Justice buster, Insider suit and hell bat are in case of break glass equipment not regular. Regular equipment for him would be his regular suit, batarangs, grappling hooks, and whatever shit that would get regular use like scanners, lock picks, code breakers, etc.
In blade's case his regular is his sword, his various throwing blade's his guns. Boy thing is a whole ass character, basically a side kick with a cool function.

Trackz

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
lol just see your edit, The symbiote is not standard equipment, venom is simply the combination of Eddie and the symbiote. Everyone knows it would be stupid to say venom without the symbiote knowing that's just Eddie Brock.

I dont understand this point, since its been stated that sentient/semi-sentient creatures do qualify as standard equipment.

But the point of my edit was characters like Blade have very variable equipment mission to mission. He doesn't have a captain America shield or Thor hammer. During any given story, youre liable to see Blade use two or three new weapons he hasn't shown consistently before. With characters like Blade we establish standard by what he has used the most consistently. The main point is that if we apply this standard, Blade doesn't have standard equipment at all.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Trackz
I agree, and so my point is if that person has something for 2 years, at that point it becomes standard. If Spiderman had captain universe powers over 2 years, and only used them against tougher foes, itd still be standard.

But that is NOT how the forum rules work.

Batman doesn't have the Batmobile, Batwing, Batcycle etc in a forum thread - even though he can easily summon them remotely, and has had them since, well, forever.
https://imgur.com/a/fq7zY
https://imgur.com/a/QHzZZ

Can drive autonomously:
https://imgur.com/a/qCDKD

And uses them against tougher foes:
https://imgur.com/a/PNX0N

I mean, Jeez, imagine if I tried saying the Hellbat armour was standard equipment - because Bruce had it for X years, and could summon it at any time (of course, it is broken now, but you get my point) it would be stupid of me:
https://imgur.com/a/tE3nafe

Now, onto BRB:
Skuttlebutt is a pretty sentient being:
https://i.imgur.com/GqGulSl.jpg

Yes, I can EASILY find multiple issues and comics where he fights alongside BRB - but forum rules state in a thread, unless noted, BRB DOESN'T have Skuttlebutt.

Forum rules state (which I quoted at the start of the thread):

Alberto, good points.

Trackz

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
for starters you have to actually be equipment......Boy thing is a whole ass character, nexus creature to be exact. Something being standard equipment is what you can say a character consistently uses as EQUIPMENT in a majority of storylines featured. Justice buster, Insider suit and hell bat are in case of break glass equipment not regular. Regular equipment for him would be his regular suit, batarangs, grappling hooks, and whatever shit that would get regular use like scanners, lock picks, code breakers, etc.
In blade's case his regular is his sword, his various throwing blade's his guns. Boy thing is a whole ass character, basically a side kick with a cool function. yea i agree, and BT has been used as equipment in the majority of his appearances. Honestly the ghost rider story is the only time where we see boy-thing actively protects the people he bonds to. Id say the argument here is whether BT should count as standard, not whether he would qualify as equipment. If we were to make a thread with the Shadow Colonel, he would meet everyone's definition as standard.

DarkSaint85

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But that is NOT how the forum rules work.

Batman doesn't have the Batmobile, Batwing, Batcycle etc in a forum thread - even though he can easily summon them remotely, and has had them since, well, forever.
https://imgur.com/a/fq7zY
https://imgur.com/a/QHzZZ

Can drive autonomously:
https://imgur.com/a/qCDKD

And uses them against tougher foes:
https://imgur.com/a/PNX0N

I mean, Jeez, imagine if I tried saying the Hellbat armour was standard equipment - because Bruce had it for X years, and could summon it at any time (of course, it is broken now, but you get my point) it would be stupid of me:
https://imgur.com/a/tE3nafe

Now, onto BRB:
Skuttlebutt is a pretty sentient being:
https://i.imgur.com/GqGulSl.jpg

Yes, I can EASILY find multiple issues and comics where he fights alongside BRB - but forum rules state in a thread, unless noted, BRB DOESN'T have Skuttlebutt.

Forum rules state (which I quoted at the start of the thread):

Alberto, good points.

Thats not what I said. Blade actively has BT more than the majority of his equipment. I didnt make any point about BT being accessible to summon, I made the point that Blade actively has BT unless there is a narrative reason shown with the exception of one arc.

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where was it stated that they qualify?

And sure Blade has standard equipment. The clue is in the name. by the philo post that you co-signed

Blade has his nickname because he used daggers and stakes for the majority of his appearances in the 70s. He hasn't used those for combat in years, because when the movies came out he started using guns and random tech, most of which vary with no real consistency.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Trackz
Thats not what I said. Blade actively has BT more than the majority of his equipment. I didnt make any point about BT being accessible to summon, I made the point that Blade actively has BT unless there is a narrative reason shown with the exception of one arc.

And Bats has the Batmobile. BRB almost always has Skuttlebutt.

Yet.....

leonidas

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Alberto, good points.

geezus.... i just grabbed my rosary and am heading down to my fallout shelter. talk to you all after the nuclear ash has settled, and the four horsemen have passed on....

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Trackz
I dont understand this point, since its been stated that sentient/semi-sentient creatures do qualify as standard equipment.

But the point of my edit was characters like Blade have very variable equipment mission to mission. He doesn't have a captain America shield or Thor hammer. During any given story, youre liable to see Blade use two or three new weapons he hasn't shown consistently before. With characters like Blade we establish standard by what he has used the most consistently. The main point is that if we apply this standard, Blade doesn't have standard equipment at all.

Originally posted by Trackz
yea i agree, and BT has been used as equipment in the majority of his appearances. Honestly the ghost rider story is the only time where we see boy-thing actively protects the people he bonds to. Id say the argument here is whether BT should count as standard, not whether he would qualify as equipment. If we were to make a thread with the Shadow Colonel, he would meet everyone's definition as standard.

I dont really see him fitting what we usually call standard equipment, nor even a symbiotic relationship. As I said before he's more a unique fusion derived from plot purposes to specific encounters. If there was an established "to me boything" like a set of iron man armor I could see an actual argument for.

As for blades armament, I mean it's generally the same as punisher in so much as you may not be able to whittle it to a specific SMG, shotgun, or rifle, but there is enough consistency in weapons to know which part of his arsenal he may have and which part (like goblin glider, klaws hand, etc) are specialty that he has to consciously decide "I'm taking this to this specific engagement for this specific reason" and for all intents and purposes that's how I view boything, even when the decision to show up is plot driving BT against blades desires. Man thing has all the powers to legit do the on call teleportation and long distance tp.. but I'm wary of calling him standard until I see something to that affect on page. Otherwise I treat him like any other fusion between two characters who travel together, they are still seperate entities.

Heck even with the venom example you still have to specifically state which host of the symbiote you are using and in this regard because of just how much a power boost boything brings I'd call it the same.. you have to state boything-blade otherwise even open debates are straight spite from blades current tier.

I'm reticent at going that route off what I've read so far. Multiple instances of intentionally being left back or not being used in that fashion unless necessary.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But that is NOT how the forum rules work.

Batman doesn't have the Batmobile, Batwing, Batcycle etc in a forum thread - even though he can easily summon them remotely, and has had them since, well, forever.
https://imgur.com/a/fq7zY
https://imgur.com/a/QHzZZ

Can drive autonomously:
https://imgur.com/a/qCDKD

And uses them against tougher foes:
https://imgur.com/a/PNX0N

I mean, Jeez, imagine if I tried saying the Hellbat armour was standard equipment - because Bruce had it for X years, and could summon it at any time (of course, it is broken now, but you get my point) it would be stupid of me:
https://imgur.com/a/tE3nafe

Now, onto BRB:
Skuttlebutt is a pretty sentient being:
https://i.imgur.com/GqGulSl.jpg

Yes, I can EASILY find multiple issues and comics where he fights alongside BRB - but forum rules state in a thread, unless noted, BRB DOESN'T have Skuttlebutt.

Forum rules state (which I quoted at the start of the thread):

Alberto, good points.

Pretty much. 👍

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ah.

So you agree with it?

Cool. Let's read it again:

"something that you have with you AT ALL TIMES" (emphasis mine)

Remind me about the Khonshu arc, again? You keep dancing around it and hand waving it away, but the fact that we both agree he had an entire arc without it being seen (let's ignore our disagreement over the War of the Realms lol), means....

Unless of course, you are cherry picking which parts of that post you agree with?

This isnt difficult and you are selectively paying attention. There's a fair disagreement here and the point im raising is one of nuance. Im not frustrated with you because I think youre stupid, im frustrated because you are consistently misrepresenting positions at every turn to score cheap points.

The point that I have consistently made that hasn't been engaged with is that the standard for what is considered standard obviously varies for characters that use different arsenals. I didnt make that point about Batman because it doesn't apply to him. His belt is magic in that way for narrative purposes. Im making the point about characters like Deadpool, Bucky, Punisher, Blade, etc. where on any given mission, you'll likely see them whip out new pieces of equipment for the sake of the story. In Avengers we've seen Blade bring no equipment to a fight, we've seen Blade bring machine guns to a fight, we've seen him bring a hell fire shotgun, we've seen him use nunchucks, explosives, c4, etc. AND we have seen him with BT. Most of the time we see these once or twice over the course of years. This is because the narrative part of what writers like to do with Blade is have him use something new or "cool" for a mission.

The problem then becomes that all of these various pieces of equipment meet the loosely defined metric of standard because they're equipment that the character will have in a regular story with no prep time. The issue becomes in forum threads when the equipment in question becomes the thing that can swing a match. Stilt has made the same argument about Blade's swords and whether they were adamantium. The same argument being "they've only been described that way once and we have no evidence that they continued to be". This argument of applying the same standard specifications we have for Thor just makes characters like Blade, who has his equipment varied, nonviable on these forums.

People are casually saying "well of course his vampire hunting equipment would count" but haven't read the character and so aren't actually engaged with what that means. Blade has had no consistent vampire hunting equipment since the movies dropped. And so what we do with characters like these, is apply the standard of "well what do they have on them most consistently". Thats one or two swords for Blades, even though there are storylines and arcs where he has none. Thats various firearms, even though there are several storylines where he has none. Thats stakes, even though he has barely used them for years. And if that is the standard BT has been his among his most consistent equipment for the past 2 years.

This is the point I've consistently made. Yes you can show an arc where he doesn't have BT. Im not ignoring this point. I can show a storyline where he doesn't use swords, where he doesn't use stakes, where he doesn't use guns, etc.

DarkSaint85

So what you're saying is, for Blade, he has in fact NO standard equipment? Cool.

If people want to make threads with Punisher etc, then they should specify his armament, I 10,000% agree.

I don't, however automatically assume he's in an old Iron Man MK2 armour just because the last few issues I read him in, he was wearing it.

But good point on Blade not having standard equipment.

Trackz

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I dont really see him fitting what we usually call standard equipment, nor even a symbiotic relationship. As I said before he's more a unique fusion derived from plot purposes to specific encounters. If there was an established "to me boything" like a set of iron man armor I could see an actual argument for.

As for blades armament, I mean it's generally the same as punisher in so much as you may not be able to whittle it to a specific SMG, shotgun, or rifle, but there is enough consistency in weapons to know which part of his arsenal he may have and which part (like goblin glider, klaws hand, etc) are specialty that he has to consciously decide "I'm taking this to this specific engagement for this specific reason" and for all intents and purposes that's how I view boything, even when the decision to show up is plot driving BT against blades desires. Man thing has all the powers to legit do the on call teleportation and long distance tp.. but I'm wary of calling him standard until I see something to that affect on page. Otherwise I treat him like any other fusion between two characters who travel together, they are still seperate entities.

Heck even with the venom example you still have to specifically state which host of the symbiote you are using and in this regard because of just how much a power boost boything brings I'd call it the same.. you have to state boything-blade otherwise even open debates are straight spite from blades current tier.

I'm reticent at going that route off what I've read so far. Multiple instances of intentionally being left back or not being used in that fashion unless necessary.

Pretty much. 👍

Yea id recommend reading how BT was introduced as a character. Narratively he is described as a source of ammunition for a character. We have to acknowledge that BT has been equipment. If you're saying the specific Blade-Boything fusion we see during the starbrand arc is not standard yea, but that was never my argument. Blade doesn't start off covered in green armor, my point he starts off with BT on his shoulder.

Re: plot purposes, that's just not true. In the vampire arc, he acquires BT after freeing him. In the Ghost Rider arc he's walking around the Avengers mansion with BT and brings him to exorcise Ghost Riders car. There's no narrative "i need BT for this". In war of the realms he's going vampire hunting and has BT with him. There's no narrative "I need BT for these specific vampires". He brings BT to space, not knowing what they'll find or that he has any weakness to red sun light. The point is its usually the opposite. Blade doesn't have BT because they need something to look after the starbrand for instance.

DarkSaint85

Trackz, you forgot to mention he didn't bring BT to fight Malekith's armies.

And didn't bring him to the Ukraine in the King in Black. Or when they were fighting Knull's forces in NYC.

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what you're saying is, for Blade, he has in fact NO standard equipment? Cool.

If people want to make threads with Punisher etc, then they should specify his armament, I 10,000% agree.

I don't, however automatically assume he's in an old Iron Man MK2 armour just because the last few issues I read him in, he was wearing it.

But good point on Blade not having standard equipment. honestly this might be the point of agreement. Blade, punisher, etc. HAVE no standard equipment. My point consistently has been that we have an implicit understanding of what qualifies as standard for them, and that implicit understanding would qualify BT. If we want to make it a rule that equipment needs to be defined when these characters are used, thats fine. My main argument has been that BT qualifies based on the implicit understanding of BT for these characters and so would qualify when not stated based on that precedent, since it is not explicitly defined how to handle equipment for such characters.

And again though, let's stop the dishonesty. We're not talking about a "few issues" we're talking about years.

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Trackz, you forgot to mention he didn't bring BT to fight Malekith's armies.

And didn't bring him to the Ukraine in the King in Black. Or when they were fighting Knull's forces in NYC.

1. Missing the point

2. I've explained why the King in Black example is poor.

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And Bats has the Batmobile. BRB almost always has Skuttlebutt.

Yet..... and ghost rider almost always has his car/motor cycle. Lets stop pretending like these examples are things that are adhered to with any consistency. The truth is the rules are seeking to get to the narrative norm for what that character would have to fight. There isn't a set number of appearances that would shift that for Batman or Beta Ray Bill. Im not making the argument that Blade needs his motorcycle, even though thats consistently been his mode of travel.This is why the example of Aquamarine was brought up. He's someone that has his narrative norm shifted under different writers. Blade is the same. We have to be honest.

DarkSaint85

The point being, it was never explained why Blade didn't just travel around fighting Malekith's armies with BT. You were saying it was always explained within the plot why BT wasn't there.

And as for your prior post, it's always been there in forum rules. They are assumed to have what they consistently have, if not specified, or if the thread says standard equipment.

Your point that Blade et al don't have standard gear, means....well, it's just Blade with no weapons or tools, Vs Batman (as an example completely off the top of my head)with all of HIS standard gear.

We do that as a rule anyway already. Kingpin is specified as having his cane, without the stip, we assume no cane, for example.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Trackz
Yea id recommend reading how BT was introduced as a character. Narratively he is described as a source of ammunition for a character. We have to acknowledge that BT has been equipment. If you're saying the specific Blade-Boything fusion we see during the starbrand arc is not standard yea, but that was never my argument. Blade doesn't start off covered in green armor, my point he starts off with BT on his shoulder.

Re: plot purposes, that's just not true. In the vampire arc, he acquires BT after freeing him. In the Ghost Rider arc he's walking around the Avengers mansion with BT and brings him to exorcise Ghost Riders car. There's no narrative "i need BT for this". In war of the realms he's going vampire hunting and has BT with him. There's no narrative "I need BT for these specific vampires". He brings BT to space, not knowing what they'll find or that he has any weakness to red sun light. The point is its usually the opposite. Blade doesn't have BT because they need something to look after the starbrand for instance.

Originally posted by Trackz
This isnt difficult and you are selectively paying attention. There's a fair disagreement here and the point im raising is one of nuance. Im not frustrated with you because I think youre stupid, im frustrated because you are consistently misrepresenting positions at every turn to score cheap points.

The point that I have consistently made that hasn't been engaged with is that the standard for what is considered standard obviously varies for characters that use different arsenals. I didnt make that point about Batman because it doesn't apply to him. His belt is magic in that way for narrative purposes. Im making the point about characters like Deadpool, Bucky, Punisher, Blade, etc. where on any given mission, you'll likely see them whip out new pieces of equipment for the sake of the story. In Avengers we've seen Blade bring no equipment to a fight, we've seen Blade bring machine guns to a fight, we've seen him bring a hell fire shotgun, we've seen him use nunchucks, explosives, c4, etc. AND we have seen him with BT. Most of the time we see these once or twice over the course of years. This is because the narrative part of what writers like to do with Blade is have him use something new or "cool" for a mission.

The problem then becomes that all of these various pieces of equipment meet the loosely defined metric of standard because they're equipment that the character will have in a regular story with no prep time. The issue becomes in forum threads when the equipment in question becomes the thing that can swing a match. Stilt has made the same argument about Blade's swords and whether they were adamantium. The same argument being "they've only been described that way once and we have no evidence that they continued to be". This argument of applying the same standard specifications we have for Thor just makes characters like Blade, who has his equipment varied, nonviable on these forums.

People are casually saying "well of course his vampire hunting equipment would count" but haven't read the character and so aren't actually engaged with what that means. Blade has had no consistent vampire hunting equipment since the movies dropped. And so what we do with characters like these, is apply the standard of "well what do they have on them most consistently". Thats one or two swords for Blades, even though there are storylines and arcs where he has none. Thats various firearms, even though there are several storylines where he has none. Thats stakes, even though he has barely used them for years. And if that is the standard BT has been his among his most consistent equipment for the past 2 years.

This is the point I've consistently made. Yes you can show an arc where he doesn't have BT. Im not ignoring this point. I can show a storyline where he doesn't use swords, where he doesn't use stakes, where he doesn't use guns, etc.

I get what you mean, but if you go that route you now gotta treat blade as an S-tier which is my sticking point here as he no longer tiers where he should on his own but high enough to be an issue to surfer without enough feats to actually defend him in a discussion. It essentially sidelined the whole character from most discussions where as base blade is actually a pretty strong in tier character for most comic based debates. And while boything may have been around at various points he doesnt necessarily get involved unless the threat demanded it. Like the khonshu arc when blade was helping Cap rescue Danny and strange and did so with his base abilities.

To the bats example by saint, we put limitations on Tony Stark even though he can at any moment summon all his armors and they can function completely independent. Mostly cause you start pushing guys out of tier for the discussion if in a random encounter you let guys like Bruce or Tony remote summon gear, much of which still relies on a 3rd entity (like an advanced A.I. housed at stark enterprises or the watch tower/bat cave) that actually does the work. To me that kinda fits outside help since its beyond partitioned suit a.i. at that point.

I mean I get the reason why you would.. but to me it just sidelines the character and it's just not solidified in stories to such a degree yet that I'd go that route.

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The point being, it was never explained why Blade didn't just travel around fighting Malekith's armies with BT. You were saying it was always explained within the plot why BT wasn't there.

And as for your prior post, it's always been there in forum rules. They are assumed to have what they consistently have, if not specified, or if the thread says standard equipment.

Your point that Blade et al don't have standard gear, means....well, it's just Blade with no weapons or tools, Vs Batman (as an example completely off the top of my head)with all of HIS standard gear.

We do that as a rule anyway already. Kingpin is specified as having his cane, without the stip, we assume no cane, for example.

No we don't do that as a rule. Check the last few fights posted with the Punisher or Blade. This is not done with any regularity. Like I said, based on precedent, people implicitly assume standard is what they have most consistently. And yes, if you want to argue that based on the standard Blade has no equipment thats fine. I've agreed with that. We have to acknowledge that:

1. People haven't been operating with that standard in mind. People don't make Punisher and Blade threads with the belief they'll enter with nothing.

2. Thats not a good standard for characters with variable equipment.

My point in war of the realms is its suggested that Blade has been using BT for travel during war of realms off panel.

DarkSaint85

Agreed. I NEVER say Bats summons armours etc. Nor do I say he summons the Batmobile/Batwing etc, even though he could.

You seem to be reading all the appearances of Blade/BT, though,so let us know what you think lol.

Don't forget the Avengers adjacent books. War of the Realms, King in Black, etc.

Trackz

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
I get what you mean, but if you go that route you now gotta treat blade as an S-tier which is my sticking point here as he no longer tiers where he should on his own but high enough to be an issue to surfer without enough feats to actually defend him in a discussion. It essentially sidelined the whole character from most discussions where as base blade is actually a pretty strong in tier character for most comic based debates. And while boything may have been around at various points he doesnt necessarily get involved unless the threat demanded it. Like the khonshu arc when blade was helping Cap rescue Danny and strange and did so with his base abilities.

To the bats example by saint, we put limitations on Tony Stark even though he can at any moment summon all his armors and they can function completely independent. Mostly cause you start pushing guys out of tier for the discussion if in a random encounter you let guys like Bruce or Tony remote summon gear, much of which still relies on a 3rd entity (like an advanced A.I. housed at stark enterprises or the watch tower/bat cave) that actually does the work. To me that kinda fits outside help since its beyond partitioned suit a.i. at that point.

I mean I get the reason why you would.. but to me it just sidelines the character and it's just not solidified in stories to such a degree yet that I'd go that route.

Which was my initial point that I made in the thread, is that Blade has more or less been sidelined based on this. People can clarify what equipment he has in future threads in order to keep him in-tier. But narratively Aaron had to do that to include Blade in Avengers stories. Stilt joked about it, but its the truth. Aaron is leaning into the narrative element of Blade where he always seems to have something for the job, and using that to equip him to be consistently ready for Avengers level threats. Its not about how I want him to be treated, its just about applying logical consistency. Like I said, if people want to describe his equipment from here on out thats fine.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Trackz
No we don't do that as a rule. Check the last few fights posted with the Punisher or Blade. This is not done with any regularity. Like I said, based on precedent, people implicitly assume standard is what they have most consistently. And yes, if you want to argue that based on the standard Blade has no equipment thats fine. I've agreed with that. We have to acknowledge that:

1. People haven't been operating with that standard in mind. People don't make Punisher and Blade threads with the belief they'll enter with nothing.

2. Thats not a good standard for characters with variable equipment.

My point in war of the realms is its suggested that Blade has been using BT for travel during war of realms off panel.

Suggested(IYO), but not actually shown. Cool. So I hadn't missed issues then.

Trackz

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Suggested, but not actually shown. Cool. So I hadn't missed issues then. 1. You've already admitted to missing issues in this thread.

2. You had initially stated BT did not appear in the War of the Realms arc

3. Now we're implying anything done off panel suddenly doesn't matter in a story? If the question is "where has boy-thing been during war of the realms" that exchange explains.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Alberto, good points.

Who are you?

What have you done with DS85?

But yeah, I agree. Wanted to mention Skuttlebutt, too.

Another possible examples - Kitty and Lockheed, Thanos and Skreet.

AlbertoJohnAvil

Originally posted by Trackz
Which was my initial point that I made in the thread, is that Blade has more or less been sidelined based on this. People can clarify what equipment he has in future threads in order to keep him in-tier. But narratively Aaron had to do that to include Blade in Avengers stories. Stilt joked about it, but its the truth. Aaron is leaning into the narrative element of Blade where he always seems to have something for the job, and using that to equip him to be consistently ready for Avengers level threats. Its not about how I want him to be treated, its just about applying logical consistency. Like I said, if people want to describe his equipment from here on out thats fine.

in many of the instances in which the two are together, boything STILL generally acts independently to blade. You could push the pet angle to an extent but I dunno bout even going that route given it's a sentient creature beyond a devil dinosaur or something of that nature. For me.. they come off as traveling companions, or even blade as protector but it still acts far more like it's own entity then a klyntar does to call it a symbiotic relationship of that nature even if it has benefits when they act in tandem (which characters like blue marvel and spectrum have entire runs together and similar fusion benefits but you wouldnt call one or the other gear, or a pet).

Its.. murky. You can make a case for.. make one against and it doesnt quite fit solidly cause it's just similar enough but unique in it's own right to still be just different enough.

Parmaniac

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Another possible examples - Kitty and Lockheed, Thanos and Skreet. Me and you

-K-M-

Just catching up on this..

https://media0.giphy.com/media/UGxfEt5POsukg/200.gif

Heh! Moon Knight meets the definition of not having standard gear too; but I made it work within the rules

Trackz

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
in many of the instances in which the two are together, boything STILL generally acts independently to blade. You could push the pet angle to an extent but I dunno bout even going that route given it's a sentient creature beyond a devil dinosaur or something of that nature. For me.. they come off as traveling companions, or even blade as protector but it still acts far more like it's own entity then a klyntar does to call it a symbiotic relationship of that nature even if it has benefits when they act in tandem (which characters like blue marvel and spectrum have entire runs together and similar fusion benefits but you wouldnt call one or the other gear, or a pet).

Its.. murky. You can make a case for.. make one against and it doesnt quite fit solidly cause it's just similar enough but unique in it's own right to still be just different enough.

it was really only that one ghost rider story, which was to more reveal that boy-thing is emotionally bonded to Blade and vice-versa. Other than that, there really aren't too many times when boy-thing acts independently of Blade, especially in combat. I agree that he doesn't operate similar to venom, the venom point I made initially was that evidence of independence isn't sufficient to explain a lack of connection, not that the two were comparable.

To your point re: spectrum and blue marvel, I'd agree and I don't think you could ever make the argument that one of them is equipment. BT was very clearly introduced as such (equipment). That's the main difference. Like the point I made before, if we were to make a thread including the Shadow Colonel, BT would clearly be included as his equipment.

Trackz

Originally posted by -K-M-
Just catching up on this..

https://media0.giphy.com/media/UGxfEt5POsukg/200.gif

Heh! Moon Knight meets the definition of not having standard gear too; but I made it work within the rules Well that's the point right? It's that based on this discussion, you actually haven't. The core issue here is actually about narrative tier. I'm applying the same standard people use for the rest of Blade's equipment and Moon Knight's equipment. It's become a point of contention because he shifts Blades tier which is jarring for people and so we're applying scrutiny to what is actually standard, regardless of precedent for characters like this.

Trackz

I mean I just looked through these threads:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=669529& amp;highlight=title%3A%28moon+knight%29+forumid%3A
77

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=617432

Based on the point you're holding right now, these points you made about Moon Knight's equipment would be thrown out.

Like you directly argue there that his equipment from a previous run should count.

Even then, we are talking about Blade in his current run, not what he has left over from a previous run.

Trackz

Re: Philosophia's point

No it's not limited, it's virtually nonexistent based on that criteria. Like I'm noting, that is not the precedent for said characters with variable equipment.

Trackz

Re: Frenchie,

People are ignoring that BT was literally introduced as gear. grown to be used as a weapon.

https://i.imgur.com/X4p4FEJ.png

Trackz

I had meant to post this vs. Gambit:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=649493& amp;highlight=title%3A%28moon+knight%29+forumid%3A
77

Where you basically argue that Moon Knight's armor should retain the feats/gear that it has shown in a previous arc even though it has not been demonstrated to do so in the current arc, after someone argues his hi-tech gear shouldn't be standard. The argument is the same "Moon knight hasn't been shown to be using any of this" and you arguing that it is logically consistent with what he has shown previously even though he is choosing not to use his high-tech gear and hasn't done so for a number of issues. This isn't a criticism of you. The entire point is that, this type of argumentation is common place for such characters and rarely is it much of a sticking point.

The main difference is, based on our definition, Blade, a character who always has a varied arsenal on him would be depicted as having next to no arsenal in a vs. thread because he changes up his weaponry too much. That pushes us away from the spirit of what standard is supposed to entail.

Like I said, people are open to define what they mean for standard in the future.