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Amalgamated Phoenix Jean Grey from both the older and newer X-Men movies vs. Wanda Maximoff. Wanda gets all her feats from Wandavision.

Showdown in an abandoned Sokovia. Who wins?

Jean is a super high end psychic. But Wanda just plays with reality itself. Its her fight to lose.

Originally posted by KingD19
Jean is a super high end psychic. But Wanda just plays with reality itself. Its her fight to lose.
QFT

I actually think it comes down to reflexes and who can attack first. Jean might not have Wanda's versatility, but she still has the power to do things like disintegrate opponents. And, for all her power, I don't think Wanda has showcased outright superhuman durability yet. I mean she has feats that would make her tougher than a real-life human, like this, for example:

https://i.imgur.com/amfmi26.mp4

But that's pretty standard for comic book characters. Characters like Black Widow have gotten blasted into the door of an armored vehicle hard enough to smash it off its hinges and got up unscathed.

And, as the last episode showed, Wanda is open to being mentally manipulated. But I suppose you could argue that magical compulsion and regular telepathy are different to each other.

Wanda seems pretty fast now though. IIRC, she was able to react to Tommy blitzing around at super speed in episode 6. Though, thinking about it, Jean reacted to Storm's lightning and Fox Quicksilver in Dark Phoenix IIRC.

Jean rarely even used her telepathy from what I remember. Especially to actually control or manipulate people.

I'm leaning towards Jean here, Wanda has a proverbial shit ton of horsepower and hax but so does Jean and have others have said Super High End Telepathy(The absolute highest in both continuity(s)).

Fox has done an extremely good job showcasing just how terrifying and helpless most are against telepathy unless your it yourself or have special equipment(i.e. Mags helmet) and MCUs closest is indeed Wanda however it's not as instantaneous(Mass suggestion of goons took a couple seconds and Super High Powered people required point blank range).

What I also thinks clinches it is that because of Amalgamation Jean gets the Fox Quicksilver speed feat which means time would be standing still even we we could scale Wanda to MCU Quicksilver.

Originally posted by McNasty996
I'm leaning towards Jean here, Wanda has a proverbial shit ton of horsepower and hax but so does Jean and have others have said Super High End Telepathy(The absolute highest in both continuity(s)).

Fox has done an extremely good job showcasing just how terrifying and helpless most are against telepathy unless your it yourself or have special equipment(i.e. Mags helmet) and MCUs closest is indeed Wanda however it's not as instantaneous(Mass suggestion of goons took a couple seconds and Super High Powered people required point blank range).

What I also thinks clinches it is that because of Amalgamation Jean gets the Fox Quicksilver speed feat which means time would be standing still even we we could scale Wanda to MCU Quicksilver.

In Wandavision, Wanda pretty much took mind control of dozens of armed soldiers seemingly instantaneously.

Wanda has better mind control feats than Jean, as Jean doesn't really have any.

Wanda has controlled the entirety of Sokovia all at once.
Manipulated the Hulk.
And all of her feats in WandaVision as well.

If we're honest, FOX Jean is more of a super powerful telekinetic who also has telepathy sometimes to read minds and talk to people.

Like the only actual telepathic feat I can clearly remember is her locating Nightcrawler through his thoughts when she and Storm chased him down.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In Wandavision, Wanda pretty much took mind control of dozens of armed soldiers seemingly instantaneously.

Thats why I said it was negligible from what I can recall but it wasn't an instantaneous thing. I think in the end it'll come down to a Quickdraw as others have said and Jean has the better speed/reaction feet

Originally posted by KingD19
Wanda has better mind control feats than Jean, as Jean doesn't really have any.

Wanda has controlled the entirety of Sokovia all at once.
Manipulated the Hulk.
And all of her feats in WandaVision as well.

If we're honest, FOX Jean is more of a super powerful telekinetic who also has telepathy sometimes to read minds and talk to people.

Like the only actual telepathic feat I can clearly remember is her locating Nightcrawler through his thoughts when she and Storm chased him down.

I cant find many feats of control so I concede on that however she has plenty resisting attempted control(Xavier both times and Apocalypse) which would be all thats needed here(both having better Mass manipulation and memory manipulation feats).

Her control of Slovakia also took time and wasn't instantaneous(it spread through the city as people fell under it). She also did get Thor and Hulk but Thor was ambushed and Hulk was implied to be snatched up as Banner.

Wanda has better versatility and Hax and will agree on that but I don't think she gets the shot of before Jean Can do hers.

Originally posted by McNasty996
Thats why I said it was negligible from what I can recall but it wasn't an instantaneous thing. I think in the end it'll come down to a Quickdraw as others have said and Jean has the better speed/reaction feet



I cant find many feats of control so I concede on that however she has plenty resisting attempted control(Xavier both times and Apocalypse) which would be all thats needed here(both having better Mass manipulation and memory manipulation feats).

Her control of Slovakia also took time and wasn't instantaneous(it spread through the city as people fell under it). She also did get Thor and Hulk but Thor was ambushed and Hulk was implied to be snatched up as Banner.

Wanda has better versatility and Hax and will agree on that but I don't think she gets the shot of before Jean Can do hers.

I wasn't implying Wanda needed to try and control Phoenix. I was pointing out how Jean nor Phoenix have ever mentally controlled anyone, so it's not something she can use against Wanda.

She's shown on screen manipulating Hulk and causing him to rampage. And I mean, ambush but it's still her mentally manipulating a God.

And during Sokovia(Slovokia is near Budapest), she was actually sending out tendrils of energy to control people. She wasn't just using telepathy straight out, so yeah it took longer as it had to physically touch people.

Originally posted by McNasty996
and Super High Powered people required point blank range

To be fair, she was a noob in her first film when this was required, and her powers have developed significantly since then, going by overall feats. Chances are this is no longer the case.

But yeah, I am still leaning towards Jean myself mainly due to being able to react to lightning and Fox Quicksilver. In comparison, Wanda's best reaction feats are grabbing her speedster son (whose speed remains un-quantified at this point), reacting to the bomb in CA:CW and, though it was offscreen, seemingly stopping a drone missile after it was fired at her at pretty much pointblank range. And while those feats are certainly nothing to scoff at, it's not quite on the same level as what Jean has done.

Question: Has Phoenix ever disintegrated someone instantaneously? Like, blasted them apart in a split second?

A bit late replying here, but:

Jean's speed and reflexes:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11145/111454637/7825435-tumblr_ppnc61dpv11v6wfnyo1_500.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11145/111454637/7825434-6982880-ezgif.com-video-to-gif%281%29.gif

Jean instantly disintegrating someone:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11145/111454637/7825436-6966326-5351206523-69663.gif

Originally posted by KingD19
Wanda has better mind control feats than Jean, as Jean doesn't really have any.

Wanda has controlled the entirety of Sokovia all at once.
Manipulated the Hulk.
And all of her feats in WandaVision as well.

If we're honest, FOX Jean is more of a super powerful telekinetic who also has telepathy sometimes to read minds and talk to people.

Like the only actual telepathic feat I can clearly remember is her locating Nightcrawler through his thoughts when she and Storm chased him down.

Jean while holding back that tide of water mind controlled someone and spoke through them right? and prevented nightcrawler from using his power to save her.

Wanda has shown zero psychic defenses, especially since in WandaVision her emotional state is compromised.

I'm not saying Jean wins, but I think yeah she could control Wanda if she is quick enough.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
A bit late replying here, but:

Jean's speed and reflexes:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11145/111454637/7825435-tumblr_ppnc61dpv11v6wfnyo1_500.gif

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11145/111454637/7825434-6982880-ezgif.com-video-to-gif%281%29.gif

Jean instantly disintegrating someone:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11145/111454637/7825436-6966326-5351206523-69663.gif

Okay well yeah now Jean wins with those reflexes.

Jean turns Wanda to dust.

Let's not forget that Wanda does have shields that have a decent chance of defending against Jean's attacks. I don't believe Jean has any defense against Wanda's reality warping.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let's not forget that Wanda does have shields that have a decent chance of defending against Jean's attacks. I don't believe Jean has any defense against Wanda's reality warping.

I'm curious why you think Wanda's shields have a decent chance of blocking attacks that appear to directly target an opponent's body. It's not like Jean was shooting energy beams or something. She appeared to operate a lot like Fox Legion does in that regard (who often tends to directly disintegrate/transmute his opponents), at least while she was in Phoenix mode. I don't recall Wanda ever defending against that kind of attack.

I think MCU Wanda was done way better as a character than Fox Jean/Phoenix, but I just don't see how she manages to warp Jean before Jean beats her to the punch here.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I'm curious why you think Wanda's shields have a decent chance of blocking attacks that appear to directly target an opponent's body. It's not like Jean was shooting energy beams or something. She appeared to operate a lot like Fox Legion does in that regard (who often tends to directly disintegrate/transmute his opponents), at least while she was in Phoenix mode. I don't recall Wanda ever defending against that kind of attack.

Because Wanda's attacks and shields also function similarly. She directly attacks an opponent's body and when she blocks attacks, she has been shown to block the attacks directly at some points without needing to create a physical line to herself.

Now I'm not saying for sure they'll work against Phoenix's attacks, but it's still a factor and shouldn't be completely dismissed. On the other hand, I'm trying to remember if Jean ever showcased shielding abilities.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Because Wanda's attacks and shields also function similarly. She directly attacks an opponent's body and when she blocks attacks, she has been shown to block the attacks directly at some points without needing to create a physical line to herself.

Now I'm not saying for sure they'll work against Phoenix's attacks, but it's still a factor and shouldn't be completely dismissed. On the other hand, I'm trying to remember if Jean ever showcased shielding abilities.

In every instance she created shields for protection she was still making a physical energy barrier between herself and the attacks (at least that I can recall), such as with the shots from the drones in AoU, the gunfire from the Hydra mooks at the beginning of CA:CW, the blasts from Proxima's spear in IW, the cannon from Thanos' ship in Endgame etc. That's somewhat different to stopping someone directly pulling your molecules apart.

And Jean was making shields around the other X-Men during the train scene in Dark Phoenix to prevent them from getting ragdolled when she was manipulating the train, from 7:46 on.

4Q1B8gL_doY

Not that I think those will necessarily help against a Hex wave either. Just pointing out that she has made them before.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
In every instance she created shields for protection she was still making a physical energy barrier between herself and the attacks (at least that I can recall), such as with the shots from the drones in AoU, the gunfire from the Hydra mooks at the beginning of CA:CW, the blasts from Proxima's spear in IW, the cannon from Thanos' ship in Endgame etc. That's somewhat different to stopping someone directly pulling your molecules apart.

And Jean was making shields around the other X-Men during the train scene in Dark Phoenix to prevent them from getting ragdolled when she was manipulating the train, from 7:46 on.

4Q1B8gL_doY

Not that I think those will necessarily help against a Hex wave either. Just pointing out that she has made them before.
Yeah.
Also like to point out that Dark Phoenix Jean can reform herself.
Even if she hesitates to attack first as she's obviously the faster one, She could definitely take Wanda's blasts .
Not so sure Jean could handle the Reality Warp though.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Yeah.
Also like to point out that Dark Phoenix Jean can reform herself.
Even if she hesitates to attack first as she's obviously the faster one, She could definitely take Wanda's blasts .
Not so sure Jean could handle the Reality Warp though.

Yeah, for me, it's basically a quick draw, as I don't think either can actually withstand a full-powered onslaught from the other (as in full-powered disintegration blast or hex warp). And Jean has the better speed and reflex feats. That Quicksilver feat is actually really impressive considering you can see that her hand visually is moving not much slower than he is in that moment.

Jean destroying a planet or overpowering Magneto and Apocalypse both city and planetary level respectively are beyond anything Wands is capable of

She oneshots

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, for me, it's basically a quick draw, as I don't think either can actually withstand a full-powered onslaught from the other (as in full-powered disintegration blast or hex warp). And Jean has the better speed and reflex feats. That Quicksilver feat is actually really impressive considering you can see that her hand visually is moving not much slower than he is in that moment.
Although I'm thinking couldn't Jean simply reform from Wanda's full powered disintegration blasts as we know She can reform.
I'm not so sure but what about that explosion in space where Jean got the Phoenix. She took it pretty well and Healed up pretty good iirc.

Also do you have any instance how Wanda could use her Warp offensively on Jean ... Would She like transmute Jean or something? Is she capable of wiping someone completely out of existence.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Although I'm thinking couldn't Jean simply reform from Wanda's full powered disintegration blasts as we know She can reform.
I'm not so sure but what about that explosion in space where Jean got the Phoenix. She took it pretty well and Healed up pretty good iirc.

Also do you have any instance how Wanda could use her Warp offensively on Jean ... Would She like transmute Jean or something? Is she capable of wiping someone completely out of existence.

Honestly, it's hard to define the limits of what Wanda can do. The last episode finally confirmed that she not only created the hex bubble and her kids, but is depicted as having created the version of Vision that we see there as well. She's shown literally forming him out of magical energy she projects from her body. So, it depends on whether she can do something similar but in reverse. It's also confirmed that she does indeed use chaos magic (and that the Mind Stone simplify amplified her natural magical potential) and is actually called "the Scarlet Witch" for the first time in the MCU.

Not that any of it matters IMO. Jean is still way faster and Wanda, despite her immense power, still has base human durability as far as we know.