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Alright, what about the Egyptians? Germans? Romans? Chinese? Africans? Or literally every power that the world has had in history with them using slaves as labor? Why is it always pointing the finger at the US for this sort of thing, as if the US is the big bad with creating slavery or whatever? In fact China I believe still has slaves, from what I've heard soo....

Oh is it because of time? Is that it? So when is the cut off period to when people stop caring then and throwing fits over it and asking for stuff because of it? Is it what, 1,000 years before it's just "oh that's how things were" and that's where it stops?

I swear this just annoying.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Alright, what about the Egyptians? Germans? Romans? Chinese? Africans? Or literally every power that the world has had in history with them using slaves as labor? Why is it always pointing the finger at the US for this sort of thing, as if the US is the big bad with creating slavery or whatever? In fact China I believe still has slaves, from what I've heard soo....

Oh is it because of time? Is that it? So when is the cut off period to when people stop caring then and throwing fits over it and asking for stuff because of it? Is it what, 1,000 years before it's just "oh that's how things were" and that's where it stops?

I swear this just annoying.

I agree with this sentiment.

I think that if a party can provide evidence that they had labor or property expropriated by another party, then that party should have to compensate the first party.
But the burden of proof would be on the plaintiff, and good luck with that.

Aside from the legitimate reparations conversation, there is also the fact that America is racially/ethnically diverse.
This diversity is an attack vector for commie agitation propaganda.
This is what I believe you're referring to in your post and the part I agree with.

So after they're done giving money to Blacks, what about Natives?

They've been treated just as badly too right?

Some sort of investment in black communities or even directly to black people makes sense, since especially wealthy white people have benefited from generational mistreatment and exploitation of black people. I would go further though and just advocate for more redistribution of wealth from the top to the lower classes, that will just by the nature of the racism in the system disproportionally benefit minorities and especially black people.

Originally posted by Artol
Some sort of investment in black communities or even directly to black people makes sense, since especially wealthy white people have benefited from generational mistreatment and exploitation of black people. I would go further though and just advocate for more redistribution of wealth from the top to the lower classes, that will just by the nature of the racism in the system disproportionally benefit minorities and especially black people.

Problem: making policy based race is racist. If you could create a legal structure with uniformity and equal applicability to everyone, that could still appropriate wealth to victims on the condition there is proof.

So you think a legal structure, that is asymmetrical based on race, is moral ?

Originally posted by ilikecomics
So you think a legal structure, that is asymmetrical based on race, is moral ?

Not intrinsically, but it can be, depending on the real world circumstances, yes.

According to QI, charlemagne was most likely to be related to everyone. Therefore, he's everyone's daddy.

Better listen to him.

Originally posted by Blakemore
According to QI, charlemagne was most likely to be related to everyone. Therefore, he's everyone's daddy.

Better listen to him. misleading, because yes everyone is descended in numbers from the same ancestors in the 9th century, you may not have any DNA left from any individual ancestor from this time.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
misleading, because yes everyone is descended in numbers from the same ancestors in the 9th century, you may not have any DNA left from any individual ancestor from this time. char le mane has the mane.

Originally posted by Blakemore
char le mane has the mane. tbh your grandparents and parents confer the most to you in terms of genes entering your own genome Blake. That said, no specific characteristic is specific to a single region.

Honestly, universal Basic income is the best way to make everyone happy here. It means the people who have been wronged by the u.s. government ( and they absolutely have) will have the same floor as those with every advantage. You can't give back what we stole, but we can make sure the victims of the theft don't live in poverty because of us.

Tell me this, if your parents or grandparents died when you were a child due to a mining accident, or a because they were hit by a drunk driver-- do you think those responsible would owe you anything? Or would it be okay for them to say "well, they weren't the ones wronged, what's the reason they need reparations? Time?"

Last summer taught me so much about how much time HASN'T passed since the government was openly discriminatory. Rosa Parks died in 2005.
ERA was passed in the sixties. This isn't ancient history. If that drunk driver-- owes you something, reparations aren't absurd.

I think you make a lot of good points, but just one correction, Rosa Parks died in 2005. Still not that long ago.

Originally posted by truejedi
Honestly, universal Basic income is the best way to make everyone happy here. It means the people who have been wronged by the u.s. government ( and they absolutely have) will have the same floor as those with every advantage. You can't give back what we stole, but we can make sure the victims of the theft don't live in poverty because of us.

Tell me this, if your parents or grandparents died when you were a child due to a mining accident, or a because they were hit by a drunk driver-- do you think those responsible would owe you anything? Or would it be okay for them to say "well, they weren't the ones wronged, what's the reason they need reparations? Time?"

Last summer taught me so much about how much time HASN'T passed since the government was openly discriminatory. Rosa Parks is still alive.
ERA was passed in the sixties. This isn't ancient history. If that drunk driver-- owes you something, reparations aren't absurd.

I think your analogy is faulty.

The drunk driver owes you since they're directly responsible.

White people today are not guilty of slavery.

They don't have to pay.

Originally posted by Artol
I think you make a lot of good points, but just one correction, Rosa Parks died in 2005. Still not that long ago.

Thanks, edited for accuracy.

Certain white people today still are benefiting from the slavery, and from segregation, and they should pay. Not all white people by any means, most do not meaningfully benefit from racism either. The Civil Rights leaders, especially MLK, were right not to frame this solely as a black and white issue, but one of rich and poor.

Originally posted by Artol
Certain white people today still are benefiting from the slavery, and from segregation, and they should pay. Not all white people by any means, most do not meaningfully benefit from racism either. The Civil Rights leaders, especially MLK, were right not to frame this solely as a black and white issue, but one of rich and poor.

Even if that was true, so what?

That doesn't mean they have to pay for a crime they did not commit.

To do that, is immoral.

Originally posted by Klaw
I think your analogy is faulty.

The drunk driver owes you since they're directly responsible.

White people today are not guilty of slavery.

They don't have to pay.

This is why UBI is a good compromise. Irish people are white, but they were definitely discriminated against as well. It wouldn't be based entirely on race. It would simply level a playing field that has long been tilted against some more than others.


If my father is a burglar, steals your stuff, gets shot escaping, brings it home and gives it to me before he died, should you get your stuff back when the police come, or is it mine now, since I didn't take it?

Originally posted by Artol
Certain white people today still are benefiting from the slavery, and from segregation, and they should pay. Not all white people by any means, most do not meaningfully benefit from racism either. The Civil Rights leaders, especially MLK, were right not to frame this solely as a black and white issue, but one of rich and poor.

Pretty sure there have already been reparations. Several phases of them.


What you're proposing is effectively impossible. Possibly not even legal, for the government to try and single out one person to pay for the crimes of their descendants.

Originally posted by cdtm
Pretty sure there have already been reparations. Several phases of them.


What you're proposing is effectively impossible. Possibly not even legal, for the government to try and single out one person to pay for the crimes of their descendants.

I would argue the opposite, there have been several phases to continue disadvantaging black people even after slavery, which are in essence reverse reparations.

What do you think I am proposing?

Originally posted by truejedi
This is why UBI is a good compromise. Irish people are white, but they were definitely discriminated against as well. It wouldn't be based entirely on race. It would simply level a playing field that has long been tilted against some more than others.


If my father is a burglar, steals your stuff, gets shot escaping, brings it home and gives it to me before he died, should you get your stuff back when the police come, or is it mine now, since I didn't take it?

You're in possession of stolen property.

So it rightfully belongs to me.

No real way to do this.

Originally posted by Klaw
You're in possession of stolen property.

So it rightfully belongs to me.

I think that's exactly the point people who want reparations are making

Originally posted by truejedi
I think that's exactly the point people who want reparations are making

I don't see it being that cut and dry.

It really isn't. A much messier issue for sure. (Thus the UBI suggestion)

But to try to understand the other side, it is helpful to understand how they see it. They do see it as that cut and dry. There needs to be a compromise. Just saying they are wrong gets us terrible useless partisanship and eventually violence.

It's like conservatives see abortion as cut and dry murder, and until liberals understand the mindset they are facing, it will always be this horrible issue with no compromise.

Originally posted by truejedi
It really isn't. A much messier issue for sure. (Thus the UBI suggestion)

But to try to understand the other side, it is helpful to understand how they see it. They do see it as that cut and dry. There needs to be a compromise. Just saying they are wrong gets us terrible useless partisanship and eventually violence.

It's like conservatives see abortion as cut and dry murder, and until liberals understand the mindset they are facing, it will always be this horrible issue with no compromise.

Abortion is cut and dry though, pro-lifers are wrong.tongue

Originally posted by cdtm
No real way to do this.

You mean like find out specifically who, how and how much they benefited from slavery and make them pay that amount? Yeah, I agree that is not possible.

Originally posted by Artol
You mean like find out specifically who, how and how much they benefited from slavery and make them pay that amount? Yeah, I agree that is not possible.

Plus even if we could do all that, I don't think the government has the power to demand reparations from descendants of slave owners.

At most, they could be publicly shamed into it.

Originally posted by cdtm
Plus even if we could do all that, I don't think the government has the power to demand reparations from descendants of slave owners.

At most, they could be publicly shamed into it.

Whether it has the power really depends on the political will, if you could find a majority, or maybe even a majority for a constitutional amendment the government could do it, but it is a pretty silly idea. Like I said earlier, I think general redistribution of wealth from the top to the bottom is much better.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
tbh your grandparents and parents confer the most to you in terms of genes entering your own genome Blake. That said, no specific characteristic is specific to a single region. mate, I was only jesting, you didn't have to suck all the fun out of it

Originally posted by Blakemore
mate, I was only jesting, you didn't have to suck all the fun out of it Apologies pal, that wasn't my intended goal.

Evil whirly

I was thinking of Ruby Bridges. Ruby Bridges is still alive.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Alright, what about the Egyptians? Germans? Romans? Chinese? Africans? Or literally every power that the world has had in history with them using slaves as labor? Why is it always pointing the finger at the US for this sort of thing, as if the US is the big bad with creating slavery or whatever? In fact China I believe still has slaves, from what I've heard soo....

Oh is it because of time? Is that it? So when is the cut off period to when people stop caring then and throwing fits over it and asking for stuff because of it? Is it what, 1,000 years before it's just "oh that's how things were" and that's where it stops?

I swear this just annoying.


*gasp* How dare you critize China?! You must be a mean racist. Don't you know they are all little saints who only want good for the world? That's what our illegitimate president says. We need to be more worried about those pesky little Russians, right leftist snowflakes? Russia! Russia! Russia! Lmao.

So what if it's the Chinese, and not the Russians, who're putting people into concentration camps. The Chinese are our saviors! Don't you dare question them, racist! Russia! Russia! Russia! Lol.


But yeah, seriously.... you are 100% spot on with everything you said. Anyone who supports "reparations" for people living today who have never suffered under the yoke of slavery are friggin' retards.


I don't take people like that seriously. Of course, most of the idiots who support reparations for people who have never been a slave are also the same fools who support shit like socialism or even communism lol so it's not really surprising.


You just can't help people like that no matter how much you try so you shouldn't waste your time arguing with them.

I hate China and Russia. Interesting that. I think people should be very wary of both.

On the actual topic... No, I don't support reparations. But if they happen? Ireland and India will be looking very curiously at Britain I'm sure. Especially after the ever-present **** up that was/is Brexit.

Hating Russia is ok. In fact, that actually makes you a good person if you do according to the chinese-controlled mainstream leftist media.

If you hate China though then shame on you! The only reason you could possibly hate them is because of your white privilege! Lol. You need to check out my thread about learning to be less white, racist!

Get your whiteness under control! Don't you know whiteness is the cause of literally all the world's problems?! You are supposed to hate yourself for being white and if you don't then you're racist!

Listen to Lebron James he is a good, virtuous person! lmao. He says the Chinese are awesome and the saviors of the world!

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Hating Russia is ok. In fact, that actually makes you a good person if you do according to the chinese-controlled mainstream leftist media.

If you hate China though then shame on you! The only reason you could possibly hate them is because of your white privilege! Lol. You need to check out my thread about learning to be less white, racist!

Get your whiteness under control! Don't you know whiteness is the cause of literally all the world's problems?! You are supposed to hate yourself for being white and if you don't then you're racist!

Listen to Lebron James he is a good, virtuous person! lmao. He says the Chinese are awesome and the saviors of the world!

Irish people aren't technically white, though. Ask the Brits.

We're like... eggshell grey but somehow black at the same time.

Lebron can **** off, though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Irish people aren't technically white, though. Ask the Brits.

We're like... eggshell grey but somehow black at the same time.

Lebron can **** off, though. And as for Irish Travellers, even the Irish hate them.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Irish people aren't technically white, though. Ask the Brits.

We're like... eggshell grey but somehow black at the same time.

Lebron can **** off, though. we have "white british," "white Irish," "white Irish traveler," (gypsy) and "white other" (european or american).

Nah, you're the "white other", Blakey.

And the looney left doesn't give a shit what nationality of white you are. If you're white, then you're an abomination in their eyes.

That's just as true for an "Irish white" as it is for an "American white" or any other kind of white person.

LOL@ the idea that the race-baiting left actually ranks certain kinds of white people above others.


The only kind of division of white people they care about is whether the person is on the right or left, and even if he or she is on the left as they themselves are they still don't actually like the white person no matter how much they will pretend that they do.


They will only pretend to like them to the extent it takes for them to get their way politically. First chance they get to stab them in the back for their own benefit they will not hesitate to do so.

But yeah, Lebron James is a joke. He has sold out to China as so many other athletes and actors, actresses, and so-called "journalists" have.

To be honest, if you're gonna make demands, it should be a lot bigger then reparations.

I have great admiration for the legacy of Malcolm X and Doctor King (His more militant aspects). They understood you don't negotiate with the ruling elite. You dictate to them, from a position of strength.

The fat cats were terrified of real riots, from a truely pissed off underclass. Something we haven't seen since their assassinations.

Conveniently.

Originally posted by Klaw
Source.

I don't know who this "Charlamagne" person is, but reparations is a flawed idea if his idea is Black Americans getting a check or checks because of slavery 150+ years ago and beyond. This ultimately only further serves to divide society.

How much should be paid? To whom exactly should it be paid too, anyone with any slave descendants? Anyone of a certain percentage and higher? The list of questions and associated issues goes on and on.

A better idea (and maybe he meant this?) would be reparations in the form of America investing in downtrodden Black communities and Black education and job skills. Revitalize Black neighbors, push money schools Kindergarten to College and vocational programs.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
And as for Irish Travellers, even the Irish hate them.

It's the parents. When I was in school a long, long time ago, there were traveller kids there (which was a surprise in and of itself), but they never lasted long. They end up growing up in an atmosphere that turns them in to assholes. Sure, there are the good ones that don't harrass anyone, but so many bad ones drag their name through the mud. It's sad.

Originally posted by Blakemore
we have "white british," "white Irish," "white Irish traveler," (gypsy) and "white other" (european or american).



Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
And the looney left doesn't give a shit what nationality of white you are. If you're white, then you're an abomination in their eyes.

That's just as true for an "Irish white" as it is for an "American white" or any other kind of white person.

LOL@ the idea that the race-baiting left actually ranks certain kinds of white people above others.


The only kind of division of white people they care about is whether the person is on the right or left, and even if he or she is on the left as they themselves are they still don't actually like the white person no matter how much they will pretend that they do.


They will only pretend to like them to the extent it takes for them to get their way politically. First chance they get to stab them in the back for their own benefit they will not hesitate to do so.

America is weird.

Originally posted by -Pr-


America is weird.


Please don't let someone like eThneoLgrRna(Star428) ruin America for you.

I went to University and lived with a guy who was a total *******. He later revealed to me he was related to gypsies on his mother's side and then it all made sense.

I also lived with another person some years later who had all the same traits and he was related to gypsies.

I've come to the conclusion that gypsies don't understand doors or windows. They can't share they just take and if anything of theirs is misplaced, it's fighting time.

Originally posted by Robtard
Please don't let someone like eThneoLgrRna(Star428) ruin America for you.



Fake president Biden and the rest of the democrats and the fake news media is ruining America just fine on their own. Hell, you leftist commies have been ruining it for many years.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Fake president Biden and the rest of the democrats and the fake news media is ruining America just fine on their own. Hell, you leftist commies have been ruining it for many years.

Good morning to you too, Ethn. A real good morning, not a fake one.

Originally posted by Robtard
Please don't let someone like eThneoLgrRna(Star428) ruin America for you.

Oh don't worry, I do plan to visit the states at some point.

On holiday. Not a ****ing chance I'd want to live there though. The medical bills alone would kill me.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh don't worry, I do plan to visit the states at some point.

On holiday. Not a ****ing chance I'd want to live there though. The medical bills alone would kill me. there's always Canada

Reparations for slavery is a ship that has sailed a long time ago. Now reparations for things like segregation and Jim Crow should still be viable as there are people still alive today that have been affected by these issues.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Reparations for slavery is a ship that has sailed a long time ago. Now reparations for things like segregation and Jim Crow should still be viable as there are people still alive today that have been affected by these issues. that's true

Originally posted by Klaw
So after they're done giving money to Blacks, what about Natives?

They've been treated just as badly too right?

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's the parents. When I was in school a long, long time ago, there were traveller kids there (which was a surprise in and of itself), but they never lasted long. They end up growing up in an atmosphere that turns them in to assholes. Sure, there are the good ones that don't harrass anyone, but so many bad ones drag their name through the mud. It's sad.







America is weird. You see, I grew up in South London, my grandfather was a settled traveller. I still have relations in Star Lane, between Orpington and Swanley, it was the largest Traveller site in Europe. Many Travellers are arseholes, Bromley and Lewisham have more Travellers than Ireland I think, but I enjoy many travellers. I would say the culture is the biggest problem. The old man at 14 doesn't have to go to school or listen to his ma'am shite. That said the speaking up stuff, is something I do respect and I've had a lot of fun under "fair play", I even pooker some shelter at the atcien tan.p

Bruni is correct for all the reasons he stated.

Shelta atchen tan spell check is mad.

bumped to point out virtue-signalling leftists' hypocrisy. They think forcing white people to pay reparations to blacks is perfectly fine but when it comes to making say... muslims, for example, pay reparations to white people for enslaving their ancestors during their conquests of Europe (see my other thread: "A short history of slavery" they get all offended and shit lol.

Charlamagne lives in the actual country that enslaved, and continues to marginalize the group he's a part of though.

Do you live in the Muslim country that enslaved your ancestors? Are you a systemic victim of policies or social power structures created by those countries as a result of slavery?

Do you really think these are the same thing?

That's right, spin and make excuses like usual.

I didn't expect people like you to see the hypocrisy.

People on your side never admit that they have double standards.

It's apparently ok to piss off white people by saying they owe reparations for something they've never engaged in but to apply those same rules to a protected group like dem poor little "misunderstood" muslims? Omg, how dare you?! You're just a racist bigot and you fully deserve the guillotine!!

And yeah, I know Muslims are not a "race" but the left sure likes to label people who criticize muslims in the slightest or their oh so "peaceful" religion (lol) as "racists."

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
It's apparently ok to piss off white people by saying they owe reparations for something they've never engaged in but to apply those same rules to a protected group like dem poor little "misunderstood" muslims? Omg, how dare you?! You're just a racist bigot and you fully deserve the guillotine!!

And yeah, I know Muslims are not a "race" but the left sure likes to label people who criticize muslims in the slightest or their oh so "peaceful" religion (lol) as "racists." dur

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
It's apparently ok to piss off white people by saying they owe reparations for something they've never engaged in but to apply those same rules to a protected group like dem poor little "misunderstood" muslims? Omg, how dare you?! You're just a racist bigot and you fully deserve the guillotine!!

And yeah, I know Muslims are not a "race" but the left sure likes to label people who criticize muslims in the slightest or their oh so "peaceful" religion (lol) as "racists."
Well, I didn't call you a racist anywhere in there. I didn't even say you had to agree with the idea of reparations.

I just asked if you sincerely believed these are the same situations.