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Silver Surfer vs Orion

Orion oneshots him

I was afraid to say orion in fear of getting torn to shreds, now I got abhi for cover

orion wins

he's a good body to stick in front to take the shrapnel. i'll take surfer. i would be very happy to bz this match up.

I wonder if Orion can even hit the Surfer these days?

Byrne ruined Orion for me in that crossover match up, Surfer easily.

Originally posted by leonidas


he's a good body to stick in front to take the shrapnel. i'll take surfer. i would be very happy to bz this match up.

fight fight fight

abhi vs leo

who you gonna bet on folks, it's the fight of the century

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion oneshots him

What planetary fts does Orion have?

Orion actually destroyed a solar system carter

Not a planetary feat technically.

Carver wins again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion actually destroyed a solar system carter

Gotcha. Surfer tanked a big bang. He stomps here.

...

No he didn't

Originally posted by MrMind
...

No he didn't

I agree with you. Orion didn't destroy a solar system.

...do you not understand how conversations work, Carv?

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha. Surfer tanked a big bang. He stomps here.

I agree with carver on the big bang although it's outlier given his black hole fiasco

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I agree with carver on the big bang although it's outlier given his black hole fiasco

Or lots of other examples if carter applied the same standards to Surfer that he does Superman. But that would mean not being a hypocrite.

Surfer

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha. Surfer tanked a big bang. He stomps here. Originally posted by abhilegend

Originally posted by abhilegend


The solar system was actually destroyed. Just because you think it's unquantifiable doesn't mean it was.

The solar system was destroyed, but Orion wasn't the one that destroyed it. You don't actually ever see him launch a solar system destroying attack, and considering what stopped him in the past, which was canon, it's a pretty far fetched claim to believe that he'd be capable of destroying a large state alone, nevermind an entire solar system. Great durability feat is all he gets.

Still clinging to low showings eh, Stoic?

Originally posted by Stoic
The solar system was destroyed, but Orion wasn't the one that destroyed it. You don't actually ever see him launch a solar system destroying attack, and considering what stopped him in the past, which was canon, it's a pretty far fetched claim to believe that he'd be capable of destroying a large state alone, nevermind an entire solar system. Great durability feat is all he gets.

Oblivion Bomb says hi.

Originally posted by Stoic
The solar system was destroyed, but Orion wasn't the one that destroyed it. You don't actually ever see him launch a solar system destroying attack, and considering what stopped him in the past, which was canon, it's a pretty far fetched claim to believe that he'd be capable of destroying a large state alone, nevermind an entire solar system. Great durability feat is all he gets.
It doesn't matter what you think.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
...do you not understand how conversations work, Carv?



and carv's respone to mrmind was equally awesome.

Originally posted by Stoic
The solar system was destroyed, but Orion wasn't the one that destroyed it. You don't actually ever see him launch a solar system destroying attack, and considering what stopped him in the past, which was canon, it's a pretty far fetched claim to believe that he'd be capable of destroying a large state alone, nevermind an entire solar system. Great durability feat is all he gets.

Even if it was only a durability feat he can harm things on his durability level, so he still gets solar system level attack potency at least even if he doesn't get the destructive capability

Originally posted by leonidas


and carv's respone to mrmind was equally awesome.

what response? he's on ignore so you gotta screenshot that shit

Originally posted by leonidas


and carv's respone to mrmind was equally awesome.

Originally posted by MrMind
what response? he's on ignore so you gotta screenshot that shit

Originally posted by carver9
What planetary fts does Orion have?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Orion actually destroyed a solar system carter

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Not a planetary feat technically.

Carver wins again.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha. Surfer tanked a big bang. He stomps here.

Originally posted by MrMind
...

No he didn't


Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you. Orion didn't destroy a solar system.

I applaud your dedication delta

now pm me carver's nudes

i was thinking the same thing. about the dedication--not the nudes. perv. sneer

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Even if it was only a durability feat he can harm things on his durability level, so he still gets solar system level attack potency at least even if he doesn't get the destructive capability

We don't clearly see him doing anything that resembles solar system destruction, which is a very far cry to him being trapped in a titanium box, or pinned by a block of lead the size of a house. I could just as easily claim that it was the Nth Metal Golem that destroyed the solar system, and base my stance on the solid fact that this creature was pursuing Orion. This creature was clearly pushing him back. This creature was also clearly far more powerful than Orion.

For all we know, an argument can be made that it wasn't even a pure durability feat, but that Orion was being actively protected by the Mother Box. Giving full credit to off panel showings is what Orion was given. That's not how it's supposed to work. It's a non feat, as it is wholly unquantifiable.

Originally posted by Stoic
We don't clearly see him doing anything that resembles solar system destruction, which is a very far cry to him being trapped in a titanium box, or pinned by a block of lead the size of a house. I could just as easily claim that it was the Nth Metal Golem that destroyed the solar system, and base my stance on the solid fact that this creature was pursuing Orion. This creature was clearly pushing him back. This creature was also clearly far more powerful than Orion.

For all we know, an argument can be made that it wasn't even a pure durability feat, but that Orion was being actively protected by the Mother Box. Giving full credit to off panel showings is what Orion was given. That's not how it's supposed to work. It's a non feat, as it is wholly unquantifiable.

You're contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by Stoic
We don't clearly see him doing anything that resembles solar system destruction, which is a very far cry to him being trapped in a titanium box, or pinned by a block of lead the size of a house. I could just as easily claim that it was the Nth Metal Golem that destroyed the solar system, and base my stance on the solid fact that this creature was pursuing Orion. This creature was clearly pushing him back. This creature was also clearly far more powerful than Orion.

For all we know, an argument can be made that it wasn't even a pure durability feat, but that Orion was being actively protected by the Mother Box. Giving full credit to off panel showings is what Orion was given. That's not how it's supposed to work. It's a non feat, as it is wholly unquantifiable. People act like this one random firestorm issue 15 years ago is somehow the whole representation of Orion. Like its all they want to cling to.

a) it's not. b) he wasnt beaten nor stopped by that lead or that titanium box in any sense. He broke out of it and helped beat up the Furies.

Originally posted by Stoic
it's a pretty far fetched claim to believe that he'd be capable of destroying a large state alone, nevermind an entire solar system. Back when he was in the JLA Orion was on the verge of destroying Earth with shockwaves from a blast he shot at a ship while on the moon. There is nothing to suggest this was his upper limit either.

We're also frequently told that he has to keep the Astro Force under fine control because if he doesn't, he'll destroy worlds.

State? Gtfo. lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
Back when he was in the JLA Orion was on the verge of destroying Earth with shockwaves from a blast he shot at a ship while on the moon. There is nothing to suggest this was his upper limit either.

We're also frequently told that he has to keep the Astro Force under fine control because if he doesn't, he'll destroy worlds.

State? Gtfo. lol.

Did he destroy the planet? Was it hyperbole that had narration upsell it? What books did this happen in?

JLA/Titans. Not that you'll read it.

Lol... I've read it though and no planet was destroyed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
JLA/Titans. Not that you'll read it.

I read Hal Jordan and the GL's. The same one that you're claiming Orion destroyed a solar system. I also gave an account of it being off panel, which means that it didn't hold the weight of your claim. If we were to replace Orion with Thor and Thor made a timely escape, while Rage, Celey, and Damborg claimed that Thor destroyed a solar system, you can be damned sure that you would scour the comic to disapprove of the off panel showing. I've seen you do it.

Your interpretation also clashed with a mod's, so.....

Originally posted by Stoic
Did he destroy the planet? Was it hyperbole that had narration upsell it? What books did this happen in?

Earth was being effected as a side effect of his attack on the enemy, hence why J'onn amd Barda stopped him. It wasn't narrative hyperbole, they had instruments and we see the effects around the world and whatnot.

Nobody actually said a planet was destroyed so carter, shut the **** up.

I've actually posted the scans for Stoic before.

Originally posted by Stoic
I read Hal Jordan and the GL's. The same one that you're claiming Orion destroyed a solar system. I also gave an account of it being off panel, which means that it didn't hold the weight of your claim. If we were to replace Orion with Thor and Thor made a timely escape, while Rage, Celey, and Damborg claimed that Thor destroyed a solar system, you can be damned sure that you would scour the comic to disapprove of the off panel showing. I've seen you do it.
Shut up. A character actually said it was Orion. Get butthurt on someone else

abhi, eloquent as always.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Shut up. A character actually said it was Orion. Get butthurt on someone else

That's exactly what you do though. You've always done it. You'll go as far as referencing a book that has nothing to do with the context being debated. Rune King Thor is an example as you went back decades to cite a completely different writer. I know how you move. We all do.

I read JLA/Titans and I retract my low opinion of Orion. He is most definitely a High Herald with moments that surpass that tier. The same however can be said for many in that tier.

Originally posted by Stoic
That's exactly what you do though. You've always done it. You'll go as far as referencing a book that has nothing to do with the context being debated. Rune King Thor is an example as you went back decades to cite a completely different writer. I know how you move. We all do.

I read JLA/Titans and I retract my low opinion of Orion. He is most definitely a High Herald with moments that surpass that tier. The same however can be said for many in that tier. Where do you put Darkseid? Orion is built to fight Darkseid. Darkseid as a teenager at a fraction of his power is stronger than gods.

That said, Orion's average is below that a little. But when he gets angry and his face cracks like Darkseid and channels the astro force, that's where he jumps to.

The Astro Force is stronger than the Alpha and Omega Forces, its limit is Orion.

Originally posted by Stoic


I read JLA/Titans and I retract my low opinion of Orion. He is most definitely a High Herald with moments that surpass that tier. The same however can be said for many in that tier.

Orion also contained the Oblivion Bomb, which would have destroyed the universe by implosion had he not contained it.

Based off showings, Surfer takes this.

Originally posted by Juntai
Where do you put Darkseid? Orion is built to fight Darkseid. Darkseid as a teenager at a fraction of his power is stronger than gods.

That said, Orion's average is below that a little. But when he gets angry and his face cracks like Darkseid and channels the astro force, that's where he jumps to.

The Astro Force is stronger than the Alpha and Omega Forces, its limit is Orion.

Darkseid has never been clearly defined. Scaling wise is tough because many will immediately compare him to Superman based on their battles. Until recently, he or an Avatar of his fought Wonder Woman, and she actually did better than I expected her to do. I have rated Darkseid from past showings as being between High Herald to Abstract level. He was actually meant to be a Galactus level entity, which would place him a notch above Elite Sky Father. Darkseid is and has been all over the place historically.

Thor had a feat that he also contained a bomb that would've destroyed a huge portion of space years ago before all of the changes that his character underwent. He challenged Celestials, hurt the Chaos King, etc.

The Surfer nearly lost his mind and made Galactus take note that he rivalled his power levels.

The Hulk is backed by the Gamma Force making him a dynamic power the likes that the Beyonder was unable to fully measure him, and thus said that he had no finite level.

Do these levels only apply to Orion?

Let's take a look at Cosmic King Thor. He took hits from a universe destroyer, but people still lowball him, or attempt to make it seem as if the Black Winter was weak. Even an amplified out the ass Galactus was scrutinized and claimed to be weak without scaling him to the Black Winter and Cosmic King Thor. It's as if people just brushed those hard facts off.

My point is that High Heralds can be written to do what Orion has done, and I don't feel as if I'm lowballing him by believing that he belongs in that tier.

Originally posted by Stoic


Thor had a feat that he also contained a bomb that would've destroyed a huge portion of space years ago before all of the changes that his character underwent.

If you're referring to what I think you are, and I'm remembering correctly, no, he did not. He contained an explosion that started a chain reaction that destroyed a large chunk of the universe. Not the same thing.

But even if we assume it on it's own destroyed it, it was, what? A fifth of the universe? And didn't Thor die doing it(with everyone brought back after 'cuz comics)? Yeah, Orion contained something more powerful without dying.

Originally posted by Stoic
That's exactly what you do though. You've always done it. You'll go as far as referencing a book that has nothing to do with the context being debated. Rune King Thor is an example as you went back decades to cite a completely different writer. I know how you move. We all do.

I read JLA/Titans and I retract my low opinion of Orion. He is most definitely a High Herald with moments that surpass that tier. The same however can be said for many in that tier.
facepalmOriginally posted by leonidas
abhi, eloquent as always.
Guilty as charged.

Surfer have better strength fts though.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer have better strength fts though.
Oddly enuff that might be true. Sort of weird for this type of character. He is still one of the most criminally underused characters imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer have better strength fts though.

Why are you laughing at the truth you sensitive human being you?

Laughing is being sensitive now?

Originally posted by Stoic
Darkseid has never been clearly defined. Scaling wise is tough because many will immediately compare him to Superman based on their battles. Until recently, he or an Avatar of his fought Wonder Woman, and she actually did better than I expected her to do. I have rated Darkseid from past showings as being between High Herald to Abstract level. He was actually meant to be a Galactus level entity, which would place him a notch above Elite Sky Father. Darkseid is and has been all over the place historically.
Wonder Woman sat and watched in horror as a depowered teenage Darkseid bodybagged Zues. She can't fight equally with Darkseid.
He was toying with her and slapping her around and she had to deux ex machina him with using to love to connect to and then drawing the spirits of gods he killed. lol.

Lol @ watch in horror when she blitzed him during their battle.

https://comicnewbies.com/2017/12/30/darkseid-kills-zeus-rebirth/amp/

Now that's some funny sh**. They used a diversion to keep her out of the battle. Lol... even after he amped off Zeus power, she went looking for Darkseid and had him on his knees after their confrontation.

Before this, she even rushed out there to help her dad...

https://comicnewbies.com/2017/12/30/zeus-vs-darkseid-rebirth/amp/

Originally posted by carver9
Lol @ watch in horror when she blitzed him during their battle.

https://comicnewbies.com/2017/12/30/darkseid-kills-zeus-rebirth/amp/

Now that's some funny sh**. They used a diversion to keep her out of the battle. Lol... even after he amped off Zeus power, she went looking for Darkseid and had him on his knees after their confrontation.

Originally posted by carver9
Before this, she even rushed out there to help her dad...

https://comicnewbies.com/2017/12/30/zeus-vs-darkseid-rebirth/amp/

Seriously carter. What the **** is your point in either of these links? It certainly seems like you're not even looking at the pretty pictures and are just hallucinating.

This thread explains why
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=674191&highlight=best+of+carver

So if we're going by this new retcon, what makes beating Seid so impressive since it wasn't the "Actual" one

I'll wait.

Make it a good response

Originally posted by carver9
Why are you laughing at the truth you sensitive human being you?
Because you're such an idiot