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PC Darkseid was never that impressive, he got taken out by a Jean Grey DP in a crossover, WF easily.

Originally posted by lawest9
PC Darkseid was never that impressive, he got taken out by a Jean Grey DP in a crossover, WF easily.

when the hell did that happen?

if you are talking about the titans x-men crossover that's post crisis

Originally posted by MrMind
when the hell did that happen?

if you are talking about the titans x-men crossover that's post crisis I'm pretty sure that was pre crisis, and it did happen.

Thought it was post Crisis as well.

The crossover was from 1982 and the COIE series was from 1985 to 1986.

Okay well cool. I guess that just shows how powerful Dark Phoenix was written to be in those days, which shouldn't actually mean that Darkseid was weak.

in the same crossover, it was stated raven was equal to phoenix

Originally posted by Stoic
Okay well cool. I guess that just shows how powerful Dark Phoenix was written to be in those days, which shouldn't actually mean that Darkseid was weak. Nope........not saying he was weak but not nearly as impressive as current versions.

Originally posted by MrMind
in the same crossover, it was stated raven was equal to phoenix Perhaps potentially but she wasn't there at that point.

Originally posted by MrMind
in the same crossover, it was stated raven was equal to phoenix

Raven's full potential has always been crazy high. She's a minor Abstract.

WF easily stomps, yes.

pc ds was considered well above pc superman--at least at times. this isn't a stomp by any stretch.

World Forger is magnitudes more powerful than PC Superman though. Like infinitely above or near about.

Originally posted by abhilegend
World Forger is magnitudes more powerful than PC Superman though. Like infinitely above or near about.

Originally posted by abhilegend
World Forger is magnitudes more powerful than PC Superman though. Like infinitely above or near about.

'station' isn't the same thing as personal power--or rather, personal power that can be called upon in a battle.

what do you think wf would do in a battle with a full-on pc superman? after all, if superboy prime can tackle darkest knight, what makes you think pc superman can't handle wf? i also think back to superman vs the anti-monitor scene in coie. obviously AM had been weakened, but he was still hugely powerful but again, superman did just fine. we've already seen superman possesses enough power to destroy his anvil. i'd think he could also destroy his hammer if he really went all out. wf is powerful, but superman is as powerful as he needs to be.

and lol at you saying superman LOSES and me defending him. fukcin strange time we live in...

Originally posted by leonidas
'station' isn't the same thing as personal power--or rather, personal power that can be called upon in a battle.

what do you think wf would do in a battle with a full-on pc superman? after all, if superboy prime can tackle darkest knight, what makes you think pc superman can't handle wf? i also think back to superman vs the anti-monitor scene in coie. obviously AM had been weakened, but he was still hugely powerful but again, superman did just fine. we've already seen superman possesses enough power to destroy his anvil. i'd think he could also destroy his hammer if he really went all out. wf is powerful, but superman is as powerful as he needs to be.

and lol at you saying superman LOSES and me defending him. fukcin strange time we live in... I remember 15 years ago when I used to tell people Supes is a walking plot device and as powerful as the story requires and they'd shout back "troooolling". I'm not trolling I am Boxey... I mean Whirly.

lol

and the new stuff about superman and dr manhattan only further support that notion. even the whole thought robot arc helps confirms it. you've always been ahead of your time whirly.

Darkseid

in comicvine, pre crisis darkseid cant even beat silver surfer

good times

World Forger is several orders of magnitude more powerful than Darkseid. He'd one shot him.

SBP>DK>Perpetua>>>>>WF

Unless we have a Dr. Manhattan situation, in which case that type of interpretation can kill Living Tribunal with a punch.

In which case there is no point having him in any thread.

Originally posted by leonidas
'station' isn't the same thing as personal power--or rather, personal power that can be called upon in a battle.

what do you think wf would do in a battle with a full-on pc superman? after all, if superboy prime can tackle darkest knight, what makes you think pc superman can't handle wf? i also think back to superman vs the anti-monitor scene in coie. obviously AM had been weakened, but he was still hugely powerful but again, superman did just fine. we've already seen superman possesses enough power to destroy his anvil. i'd think he could also destroy his hammer if he really went all out. wf is powerful, but superman is as powerful as he needs to be.

and lol at you saying superman LOSES and me defending him. fukcin strange time we live in... I agree an all out Superman is more powerful than WF. Heck Dr. Manhattan knows he can’t beat Superman. He casually one shot barbatos to sleep. Serious Superman is on a whole different level. But with that said, WF is more powerful than Darkseid at least the version in this thread.

i'm talking about just superboy prime. but the 'man' superboy prime turns into--at least in theory--IS pc superman. i think art and story have come so far that comparing these eras is very difficult, but the idea is that prime was simply a pc kryptonian and not even at the peak of his power. but i think in general pc darkseid was STILL beyond him. scaling is a TERRIBLE way to debate, but it's done here ALL the time. i could literally see pc superman punching the hammer to pieces like he did the anvil. i could see prime doing the same thing. hell, prime himself has already taking a universal level event.

if we assume the intent was to make prime a pc-level kryptonian, and pc superMAN is what prime was destined to become.... things get silly.

as far as your second post-- i came to that EXACT conclusion while i was typing my earlier response. great minds.... i mean he's already banished from the tier thread. the forum itself is the next logical step. lol

Originally posted by Diesldude
I agree an all out Superman is more powerful than WF. Heck Dr. Manhattan knows he can’t beat Superman. He casually one shot barbatos to sleep. Serious Superman is on a whole different level. But with that said, WF is more powerful than Darkseid at least the version in this thread.

an all out superman is a plot device, so hard to debate against that. pc superman was traditionally as powerful (or limited) as was needed, but in that era darkseid was still more powerful.

the problem is in the inherent way stories are told, and the focus on continuity and 'logic' that exists now that didn't back then. drop wf back into pc days and he'd be nothing special--just another powerful villain who'd get taken out. now, with all the backstory and layers that have been added to the cosmology, he's...what he is. but in relative terms, he'd just be the next big villain to go down in the pc world. at least imo.

be interesting to see what the omega effect would do to his hammer or to him directly.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

and the new stuff about superman and dr manhattan only further support that notion. even the whole thought robot arc helps confirms it. you've always been ahead of your time whirly. Thank you old pal.

Just Superboy Prime I'd wager would get one-shotted. But I think the 'man' Prime in Snyder's arc is too powerful, far above what I think even Pre-Crisis kryptonians are. I don't consider him just a pre crisis kryptonian run amok, he is simply portrayed as too powerful. His showing against TDK, even as an adult, honestly makes zero sense. I guess the "S"-shield literally gives him the power to go up against anyone which, to the latter point, is what DC's going for with Superman but still -- jesus christ.

the gratuitous jc blast made actually made me lol

As you can see -- I rarely make a serious Superman post on the forum anymore.

Well, this is the reason. I don't need to be a fanboy anymore -- it's as if he's written by me on mushrooms.

I'd rather he be kept banned. At least we'll start talking about the likes of Cyborg Superman and his likes again.

Agreed.

I still remember the Cyborg Superman vs SS thread from way back with Avlon.

We don't have that anymore here.

So many assumptions here.

Like?

PC Kryptonians aren't really written to be vastly above anyway. A lot of the big feats are just from a complete lack of understanding of well... anything. Most of the time they're just normal superheroes with nothing out of the ordinary. Then they have those feats that make no sense because they were written like Carver9 wrote them. A crash course in astrology with Derrick Carvington.

Superboy Prime took that PC whackiness serious and beyond. His level is more akin to what Digi used to pretend He Man was in where he can just scale up to anything with no proof. He Man just gets stronger, here's a quote about me talking about him moving a moon guys. Only that sort of sillyness apparently has stuck with Prime. He'll do just as good against a normal team as he would against a multiverse eliminator. His power isn't static and any sort of baseline you can get out of him is still ways beyond Superman's baseline.

Prime is apparently above all of the Brother Monitors together by a lot but below COIE Anti-Monitor alone. Great character to judge.

PC Darkseid was a huge pussy compared to Anti-Monitor too who World Forger is equal to. What that means with all the retcons however is anyone's guess. Start of COIE, end of, middle? Haven't looked into it too much but I doubt there's much care with how they just raised Anti-Monitor's base form to seemingly above his end form in COIE instead.

I disagree with most of that.

Same here.

Originally posted by Galan007
Like Manhattan, WF believed that it was fully possible for Superman to kill him(as he mentioned during his convo with Batman.)

So yeah... Ban all Superman threads again, Galan. In 1 month, this place will become peaceful again!

You know the forum will be better for it. Use your power for good!

His upper end really isn't fair. Most people are comparing their favorite characters all time feats and most powerful incarnations in the last 50 years to shit Superman does every few issues while consciously operating at a fraction of his strength.

Guys like Hulk range from losing to Captain America in a few punches to world ending, give or take.

Superman ranges from World ending from a jump while nearly dead, to multiversal cosmic beater.

Most people's all time peak is his 'meh'.

You bring up Hulk losing to Cap but Superman got knocked TF by a tractor being thrown on his head and struggled to stop a teenage mutant ninja wannabe turtle the size of of car from falling from cloud height. Almost got killed by Red Cloud, someone who fts are trash, choking him to death. Deathstroke RECENTLY even hurt him. When using low showings, you need to think about his as well because in 15 years, his lows FAR exceeds Hulks and its much worse.

Let's not forget Batman drawing blood from him with a punch.

Originally posted by carver9
You bring up Hulk losing to Cap but Superman got knocked TF by a tractor being thrown on his head and struggled to stop a teenage mutant ninja wannabe turtle the size of of car from falling from cloud height. Almost got killed by Red Cloud, someone who fts are trash, choking him to death. Deathstroke RECENTLY even hurt him. When using low showings, you need to think about his as well because in 15 years, his lows FAR exceeds Hulks and its much worse.

Let's not forget Batman drawing blood from him with a punch. You misrepresent all of those, but no one is surprised.

Tractor didn't stop Superman, and it was a sucker shot. Superman made the point he was holding back during the first exchange, and then was just standing trying to talk to him when he shot him in the face and hit him with the tractor. He got back up and was still fighting after that.

Deathstroke didnt stop Superman. He was disoriented from the gravity sheath of the Ikon suit and Deathstroke ran away, knowing he cant stop Superman. In their next encounter, Superman casually punches him through a building and destroys the suit.

Red Cloud didnt stop Superman, surprised him momentarily and he blew her away and took off. Next encounter, defeated her by spinning and blowing, even said he could just blow her into space if he wanted.

0 of those encounters involved Superman being stopped.

Big difference between that and getting punched out by the likes of Cap, Wolverine and Spiderman in a heads up fight.

Originally posted by Juntai
You misrepresent all of those, but no one is surprised.

Tractor didn't stop Superman, and it was a sucker shot. Superman made the point he was holding back during the first exchange, and then was just standing trying to talk to him when he shot him in the face and hit him with the tractor. He got back up and was still fighting after that.

Deathstroke didnt stop Superman. He was disoriented from the gravity sheath of the Ikon suit and Deathstroke ran away, knowing he cant stop Superman. In their next encounter, Superman casually punches him through a building and destroys the suit.

Red Cloud didnt stop Superman, surprised him momentarily and he blew her away and took off. Next encounter, defeated her by spinning and blowing, even said he could just blow her into space if he wanted.

0 of those encounters involved Superman being stopped.

Big difference between that and getting punched out by the likes of Cap, Wolverine and Spiderman.

Carter lying. What a shock.

Originally posted by Juntai
You misrepresent all of those, but no one is surprised.

Tractor didn't stop Superman, and it was a sucker shot. Superman made the point he was holding back during the first exchange, and then was just standing trying to talk to him when he shot him in the face and hit him with the tractor. He got back up and was still fighting after that.

Deathstroke didnt stop Superman. He was disoriented from the gravity sheath of the Ikon suit and Deathstroke ran away, knowing he cant stop Superman. In their next encounter, Superman casually punches him through a building and destroys the suit.

Red Cloud didnt stop Superman, surprised him momentarily and he blew her away and took off. Next encounter, defeated her by spinning and blowing, even said he could just blow her into space if he wanted.

0 of those encounters involved Superman being stopped.

Big difference between that and getting punched out by the likes of Cap, Wolverine and Spiderman in a heads up fight.

You're funny. Superman was knocked out and didn't show up until a page later. That's considered a ko.

Wtf...it was outright said she could've killed him and their last encounter, he was defenseless and it was said yet again she could kill him. It's funny you THINK you know everything about Superman...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e970fa2ad5ecb0cbf0855f90a7566481
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5f3470fb3d8024279d0547958c3ee1b7

She let him go there. He was dead until she decided to let him get up and she helped him afterwards.

Which fight are you talking about with Deathstroke? I'm trying not to embarrass you here.

The showings I mentioned are TERRIBLE because in the past FIFTEEN years, Hulk doesn't have anything close to this. Especially being overpowered and outright unable to do anything recently. This is embarrassing and obviously, yet again, you don't know what you're talking about. I can mention more showings, but whats the point. You probably haven't read it.

Originally posted by leonidas
'station' isn't the same thing as personal power--or rather, personal power that can be called upon in a battle.

what do you think wf would do in a battle with a full-on pc superman? after all, if superboy prime can tackle darkest knight, what makes you think pc superman can't handle wf? i also think back to superman vs the anti-monitor scene in coie. obviously AM had been weakened, but he was still hugely powerful but again, superman did just fine. we've already seen superman possesses enough power to destroy his anvil. i'd think he could also destroy his hammer if he really went all out. wf is powerful, but superman is as powerful as he needs to be.

and lol at you saying superman LOSES and me defending him. fukcin strange time we live in...
Prime tackling Darkest Knight doesn't transfers to PC Superman though. Anti Monitor has been retconned to always be weaker in 3rd dimension.

This is just circular reasoning.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Prime tackling Darkest Knight doesn't transfers to PC Superman though. Anti Monitor has been retconned to always be weaker in 3rd dimension.

This is just circular reasoning.

I miss you, stop ignoring me

Originally posted by Juntai
His upper end really isn't fair. Most people are comparing their favorite characters all time feats and most powerful incarnations in the last 50 years to shit Superman does every few issues while consciously operating at a fraction of his strength.

Guys like Hulk range from losing to Captain America in a few punches to world ending, give or take.

Superman ranges from World ending from a jump while nearly dead, to multiversal cosmic beater.

Most people's all time peak is his 'meh'.



That is why he is the GOAT of comics. Every newcommer wants to compare his favorite character to him.

Originally posted by Juntai
His upper end really isn't fair. Most people are comparing their favorite characters all time feats and most powerful incarnations in the last 50 years to shit Superman does every few issues while consciously operating at a fraction of his strength.

Guys like Hulk range from losing to Captain America in a few punches to world ending, give or take.

Superman ranges from World ending from a jump while nearly dead, to multiversal cosmic beater.

Most people's all time peak is his 'meh'.

I understand you and your super scout gang live in this illusion that Supes is a high herald or above, but he isn't. That's the sad REALITY of it all.

Ko'ed by Giant Gorilla who lost to lexcorp lasers pages later
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ 5KWNlVAm3NSG08hcvj4ie3j9RcoMgQpfLORpd1LTm3i0HltTZH
z4ezsDHjKw6sMl9cscXdMRnxsOLJ9_AFTORo2d764lTBHRzD0r
0nV4yBTkmGMqE_c7opz7BkA4tK8m5sbnfZeQ0A=s1600

strains with one megaton
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ CF1PCTMTO5EcuBate8KR_cd_Fr7r4BeU1cf6qH5oJbS6f7LNq9
2AMWASX2EZvFnRWGnPChopPmLuwUtbah21X1btrqBgLegEBCGq
z8SfwtVyzft5LkpHOJEXzFMHZ9pSpRpeveUpTg=s1600

needs Diana help to stop the JL watchtower and still struggles in the proccess
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ luBg4LhtQYz3uK8oROlWMhQzspwVwf67mcv3C_kMo1ed2Qk9jH
aJsuRVKlybHOR_iajYiuIcmKCnNQe2OPVhacsKUWxsa6t7Iq3o
v6ibllH-FbvBfZDr2I2rOdkN8KyRSde7nveRMg=s1600

Toymaster Robot stomps him
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ T9JKoPfrXiIVYFwKo1IGyNVmYMw8OAy6tFVEUlwz7hisxihP5c
p1c4H-jxwA5DTm457CFyF8wys7g9UvxuELf1giPO6RB0nN08AwXCl-obhoSRSHW-v8WcJSyGv5BrvIYsCtdtUWmA=s1600

Ko'ed by a gas pipe explosion at half power
https://imgur.com/a/J2kjWfl

struggled with an elephant
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ifXAZR6Ct4NnE-yewdjaEHSwgZvLX- OjzrFXW7VMFcuzfLSiOAe1hVCWF28gbHbvTq38yqLR4R2Z2FX5
GFsFx7Qf3LN62sHhZWMD8MbunsegyLoR7FSBSAPio4F64oaL6Z
_hPtKQBw=s1600

Lost to Rogol Zaar who needed a device to destroy a planet in the next issue
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6riR- OD9hnMyhdFWkiFxxoe4uBn9y_9yz1N0KWe_UDQ8AS1UXOqFJEd
CisDkAsUwkszB_HOHn9V-YjW93NseLRElfMjUaodEM2w-t7XrAGr1j2JnkIH8-w__laakVBE3tv4ZRSLETg=s1600
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ka0o8W4462YrZDhafYzv_GAgf6iOcMIx-uY-UxsV5Nfx4GyD- 5vcAVQrHXfsKmXPZXMq6hvo0eLFyR5p7OXEqMgRLm4dtYHlsQj
XjDrS-T4py6N2Yejbg2ZxlrgRIlY9sh5keWwvBA=s1600

It takes ALL of his strength to move an venus sized planet 13 meters
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6L8YWjKycbjGyhIl_Wi- T_s_Y8qAYxxzZL2J5s9lNf3fepUb0IfXH6EdyewT9kZcTqx13C
mttKVNC0S1vJ_5_aEphLf_gNNKzQL_KFGu_mYg_klCFoky_PuJ
0GN9AYUOU-_Y8CV0Mg=s1600

Every Marvel herald including Hyperion, Gladiator, shits all over Superman. Stay butthurt.

1 link working, good post

Bringing up hulk losing a fight to Cap really triggered a couple of guys here.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
1 link working, good post

Would it matter?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Would it matter? It would change everything.

Lol

Originally posted by Parmaniac
1 link working, good post

Genius at work. We can't comprehend his intentions.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
1 link working, good post

He always steals post of others without quoting them properly, that is why.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He always steals post of others without quoting them properly, that is why.

Karkus on Comicvine, in this case.
Although HE got called out on copy/pasting arguments, lmao, so probably the same person.

Originally posted by carver9
You're funny. Superman was knocked out and didn't show up until a page later. That's considered a ko.

Wtf...it was outright said she could've killed him and their last encounter, he was defenseless and it was said yet again she could kill him. It's funny you THINK you know everything about Superman...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e970fa2ad5ecb0cbf0855f90a7566481
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5f3470fb3d8024279d0547958c3ee1b7

She let him go there. He was dead until she decided to let him get up and she helped him afterwards.

Which fight are you talking about with Deathstroke? I'm trying not to embarrass you here.

The showings I mentioned are TERRIBLE because in the past FIFTEEN years, Hulk doesn't have anything close to this. Especially being overpowered and outright unable to do anything recently. This is embarrassing and obviously, yet again, you don't know what you're talking about. I can mention more showings, but whats the point. You probably haven't read it.
Superman was still fighting after the tractor sucker punch. Post him being unconcious?


If you read more, you'd understand that proved about a dozen times he can beat Red Cloud by spinning fast and/or super-breath.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/cf813d49ad8b376c7fb5e330d9334979/505107cae5809cf8-81/s2048x3072/ae7db6af1924124abd1248e3a613593d1bbe025b.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8016f3ea15adbfb5f7173b5c0167af7b/505107cae5809cf8-bd/s2048x3072/be909372745aaaf8cdc0c2f12a730a2925a7fec9.jpg
https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Action-Comics-1006-Superman-spoilers-A.jpg


And she's made out of 'something' that can suffocate anyone, including a kryptonioan who can go through space, stars, etc.


But Superman wasn't stopped in any of these showings.

Stopped is when Hulk runs into meta dudes and gets knocked out heads up.

Originally posted by carver9
because in the past FIFTEEN years, Hulk doesn't have anything close to this. Especially being overpowered and outright unable to do anything recently. Oh he hasn't?


https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-66cc33a3947089dd37f6b0f9b59991ad


What's Hulks track record against skyfather and up?

Juntai:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She's not poison gas.

https://i.postimg.cc/8kw0NVmF/05-2.jpg

She's interdimensional energy.

I know poor Carver is bereft of me educating him, so anyone can feel free to quote me, so he can once more be schooled on comics.

That's how humans can survive her attacks. She isn't 'just' poison gas, she can control her energy output, after being bonded with another dimension that nobody knows the properties of, not even if it is matter or antimatter.

https://i.postimg.cc/d0m968W7/10.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Prime tackling Darkest Knight doesn't transfers to PC Superman though. Anti Monitor has been retconned to always be weaker in 3rd dimension.

This is just circular reasoning.



Abhi speaking facts lately

Originally posted by Juntai
Oh he hasn't?


https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-66cc33a3947089dd37f6b0f9b59991ad


What's Hulks track record against skyfather and up?

https://i.postimg.cc/LhwDhZHs/giphy-downsized-medium.gif

WTF why are you using Zeus out of all people? Superman wouldve gotten far worse beating from zeus ffs. I swear to god i really hate superman fans with a deep passion. I ALWAYS thought abhi leaving the earth would be great for all of us but seeing you post just makes that virtually impossible

Let's ask Karkus.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought SBP was a completely different character from Silver-Age-Superboy-who-grew-up-to-become-Silver-Age-Superman. Yeah, different char but a counterpart to him. I can see Leo's point even if I disagree with him.

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman was still fighting after the tractor sucker punch. Post him being unconcious?


If you read more, you'd understand that proved about a dozen times he can beat Red Cloud by spinning fast and/or super-breath.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/cf813d49ad8b376c7fb5e330d9334979/505107cae5809cf8-81/s2048x3072/ae7db6af1924124abd1248e3a613593d1bbe025b.jpg
https://64.media.tumblr.com/8016f3ea15adbfb5f7173b5c0167af7b/505107cae5809cf8-bd/s2048x3072/be909372745aaaf8cdc0c2f12a730a2925a7fec9.jpg
https://insidepulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Action-Comics-1006-Superman-spoilers-A.jpg


And she's made out of 'something' that can suffocate anyone, including a kryptonioan who can go through space, stars, etc.


But Superman wasn't stopped in any of these showings.

Stopped is when Hulk runs into meta dudes and gets knocked out heads up.

She was inexperienced in that fight, lol... their last fight, the scans I posted, she was killing him and she could've killed him as said on panel. She was physically over powering him, choking him out. Why are you making this so difficult.

You're still clinging on to Hulk and Cap showing that is over 20 years old. You can do better than this. Let me show you what I mean...

Deathstroke drops him to his knees with an elbow and then kicks him making him do the pain face...

https://ibb.co/0p0hzzC

Blasted and knocked out...

https://ibb.co/yWxJK8z
https://ibb.co/k60q1SR

One on one fight with Kalibak ending with him being knocked out...

https://ibb.co/VmprxJ4
https://ibb.co/1Z1WCMB

Titano knocks him out..

https://ibb.co/6XnYbtN
https://ibb.co/ph4rWf3

Supes has been knocked out more than any hero I can think of. Mongul knock him out, almost forgot...

https://ibb.co/yfmkxFd

All of this is recent. I didn't even post toy man knocking him out. Or Zod son, or Zod. Or a portion of Parallax power knocking him out. Is this what you really want me to do? Like, what's wrong with you. Keep clinging to Hulk vs Cap that happened over 20 years ago. Hopefully you get joy out of that..

Lol...the point of Deatbstroke scan is him hurting Superman.

The point of Mongul is he knocked him TF out. The point of Kalibak scan is him knocking Supes out as well. I never said Supes couldn't beat them. Why did Jun bring up Captain America when Hulk can beat him? Ask that question next time. IM not the one who started this. Jun brought this up to make Supes look good and Hulk look like trash because he's intimidated and he have every right to be.

Lol... I don't think that's how his Ikon suit work. Lol... it doesn't amp his punches and kicks.

I like how picks the panels right before Supes says he hasnt even been trying because he doesnt want to hurt him, then knocks him through a building and destroys the Ikon suit. lol.

@JL King... glad you're ok with Deathstrome hurting Supes. Imagine what Colossus would do.

Kalibak koing Superman IS a win. It doesn't matter what happens before or after that. The ko is a win for Kalibak, lol. Mongul koing Superman is a win. It doesn't matter what happened before or after that, he dropped Superman. A knock out is a knock out. A knock out is a win. Just because Kalibak and Mongul stopped pounding on him afterwards, doesn't take away their victory.

Originally posted by Juntai
Correct. Superman wasn't stopped against any of them.

Hulk gets punched to sleep by street level/metas.

He was knocked out, sleep, which means he was stopped. Do you know what a ko js?

Originally posted by carver9
@JL King... glad you're ok with Deathstrome hurting Supes. Imagine what Colossus would do.
Does Colossus have a way to store the energy Superman's attacks are using, amplify and use it back against him?

What is up with any time I try to quote someone or edit a post the shit is always blank? It used to only be when I tried to quote Philo, but now its like everyone.

Originally posted by Juntai
Does Colossus have a way to store the energy Superman's attacks are using, amplify and use it back against him?

Show me his Ikon suit doing that. Amplifying his punches.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought SBP was a completely different character from Silver-Age-Superboy-who-grew-up-to-become-Silver-Age-Superman. The one we call Silver Age Superman is current Superman. He was the one that was left after the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

SBP was a different character.

Originally posted by Juntai
The one we call Silver Age Superman is current Superman. He was the one that was left after the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

SBP was a different character.

Where does Kal-L fits in all this then?

Originally posted by carver9
Show me his Ikon suit doing that. Amplifying his punches. Show me Superman actually being harmed, rather than being disoriented by the gravity sheath, as described by narration and then Deathstroke knocking him off balance before being shoulder checked through a building.


This is the problem. You're pretending this is a win. It's not.


Deathstroke didn't punch Superman unconscious. Street level dudes do that to Hulk tho.

Originally posted by SquallX
Where does Kal-L fits in all this then? Golden age Superman was Earth 2 Superman, not sure what his current designation would be with the new multiverse alignment.

Pre-Crisis/Silver Age/Bronze Age/Earth 1 Superman is Current Superman.


But I believe in the new alignment they're actually saying Golden age was current Superman too somehow. But that's now how it's been for the last few decades.

@Squal, the Ikon suit store energy and it bounced it back at whomever is hitting it, lol, it doesn't amplify someone's punching power.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-157cb36d6d6d0ea5c4fb893d4c17cc3f
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a7171d3dc23cd64981ad16a2dd2a18fa

Like, why are you all making up stuff? It's like you're either making it up or you just haven't read the books. Choose one.

Originally posted by Juntai
Show me Superman actually being harmed, rather than being disoriented by the gravity sheath, as described by narration and then Deathstroke knocking him off balance before being shoulder checked through a building.


This is the problem. You're pretending this is a win. It's not.


Deathstroke didn't punch Superman unconscious. Street level dudes do that to Hulk tho.

He was harmed in the scans I posted. He is holding his side after DS hit and then his facial expression after the kick. Put Hulk in Superman spot and give him the same reactions Superman made when Deathstroke attacked him. That's the only way you'll see it.

Being knocked out is a win.

Like I've said, 20 years of showings and Superman looks far worse than Hulk. Superman gets wrecked by beings and knocked out by beings that Hulk would one hand. He almost got choked to death and killed and did not have the strength to do anything about it. This doesn't happen to Hulk. Abstracts have to use all of their power to hold him whereas Red Cloud was choking Superman to death and he couldn't break free.

Originally posted by carver9
@Squal, the Ikon suit store energy and it bounced it back at whomever is hitting it, lol, it doesn't amplify someone's punching power.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-157cb36d6d6d0ea5c4fb893d4c17cc3f
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a7171d3dc23cd64981ad16a2dd2a18fa

Like, why are you all making up stuff? It's like you're either making it up or you just haven't read the books. Choose one. Absorbs and redirects Superman's energy back at him. Exactly what I said. Something Colossus can't do - Make Superman punch himself.

He was being disoriented by the tidal effect and Deathstroke simply knocked him off balance, before being casually knocked away and the suit destroyed.

This is not a win, and he didn't hurt Superman.

It's nearly taking all of my power to hold him...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0cb042e75b7b2151954a3286bec98196

"She can choke him out? Why isn't she leading"...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e970fa2ad5ecb0cbf0855f90a7566481

I thought the mods asked you all to stop mentioning the Thing vs Hulk fight due to Hulk being compromised? The desperation.

Originally posted by carver9
It's nearly taking all of my power to hold him...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0cb042e75b7b2151954a3286bec98196

"She can choke him out? Why isn't she leading"...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e970fa2ad5ecb0cbf0855f90a7566481

I guess you miss the part where she gets her powers from another dimension no ones understand.

Originally posted by Juntai
Absorbs and redirects Superman's energy back at him. Exactly what I said. Something Colossus can't do - Make Superman punch himself.

He was being disoriented by the tidal effect and Deathstroke simply knocked him off balance, before being casually knocked away and the suit destroyed.

This is not a win, and he didn't hurt Superman with any strikes.

So we agree the shield didn't amp Deathstroke punches and kicks? That's all you have to say. Now let's move on. Also, Colossus strength>>>Deathstroke. Get off this topic.

Originally posted by SquallX
I guess you miss the part where she gets her powers from another dimension no ones understand.

Ok. So everyone that get their powers from different dimension can choke Superman out? Let me know so that I can gather a list. Also, she was PHYSICALLY choking him to death.

Originally posted by carver9
So we agree the shield didn't amp Deathstroke punches and kicks? That's all you have to say. Now let's move on. Also, Colossus strength>>>Deathstroke. Get off this topic. I never said it did.

What's your point?
Colossus can't cause a tidal effect and make Superman effectively hurt himself.

Colossus strength, like Deathstroke is also insufficient to stopping Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok. So everyone that get their powers from different dimension can choke Superman out? Let me know so that I can gather a list. Also, she was PHYSICALLY choking him to death. That is not how she was choking any of the characters. She was filling their bodies with her extradimensional energy/cloud.

Originally posted by Juntai
That is not how she was choking any of the characters. She was filling their bodies with her extradimensional energy.

She was strangling him. Had her hands around his neck. She didn't get inside of him in the scans I posted. If she did, show me.

Originally posted by carver9
She was strangling him. Had her hands around his neck. She didn't get inside of him in the scans I posted. If she did, show me. Fair enough, looking back in this one instance she didn't. I'll give you that one.


However, it's also after Luthor upgraded her and a few of the others, as he mentions in that very issue to Sinestro, he gave each of them 'the powers of a GOD"

Originally posted by Juntai
Fair enough, looking back in this one instance she didn't. I'll give you that one.


However, it's also after Luthor upgraded her and a few of the others, as he mentions in that very issue to Sinestro, 'the powers of a GOD"

She was made whole. No power increase. I also feel confident she won't be benching planets anytime soon. I didn't even want this debate. You started this by bringing up a character that isn't in this thread. The last time Cap fought Hulk, Hulk gave Thor a concussion with a single hit and also punched Cap Adamantium and Vibranium shield (vibranium absorbs energy) and gave him a nose bleed. Cap then ran...

https://ibb.co/fdBKvJm

Then we have Hulk again taking on the Avengers, including Cap, with Cap being irrelevant yet again.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/fUct8FH

Like I said, 20 years, you won't find a single showing of Cap holding his own against Hulk, OR, Hulk just being physically restrained by anyone and there have been plenty of encounters between the 2.

Originally posted by carver9
She was made whole. No power increase. I also feel confident she won't be benching planets anytime soon. I didn't even want this debate. You started this by bringing up a character that isn't in this thread. The last time Cap fought Hulk, Hulk gave Thor a concussion with a single hit and also punched Cap Adamantium and Vibranium shield (vibranium absorbs energy) and gave him a nose bleed. Cap then ran...

https://ibb.co/fdBKvJm

Then we have Hulk again taking on the Avengers, including Cap, with Cap being irrelevant yet again.

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/fUct8FH

Like I said, 20 years, you won't find a single showing of Cap holding his own against Hulk, OR, Hulk just being physically restrained by anyone and there have been plenty of encounters between the 2. You mean besides Cap punching him out in 2007?

Thanos eye blasted Hulk down in Infinity.
Thing punched Hulk out.
Zues punched out Hulk.
Cap punched Hulk out.
Red Hulk beat Hulk a few different times, even snapped his arm once.
Sentry while trying to lose still put Hulk down.
Can't recall his name, but in the mid-2000s a skrull punched Hulk out.

This isnt even trying to get in and nitpick random single panels and claim them as some weird type of having a victory like you try to do with Superman, and all in fairly recent history. And this is just random events from the top of my head. I'm probably forgetting at least a 100 more. This dude spent a few years ducking undead FBI agent dudes. lol.


Even in the movies the dudes a ****in punching bag. lol.




Superman's floor is where these guys are, and his ceiling is a whole level Hulk doesn't and can't fight at. A place where guys like Dr Manhattan are World Forger believe they would ultimately lose to Superman.

Savage lands gorillas lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos eye blasted Hulk down in Infinity.
Thing punched Hulk out.
Zues punched out Hulk.
Cap punched Hulk out.
Red Hulk beat Hulk a few different times, even snapped his arm once.
Sentry while trying to lose still put Hulk down.
Can't recall his name, but in the mid-2000s a skrull punched Hulk out.

This isnt even trying to get in and nitpick random single panels and claim them as some weird type of having a victory like you try to do with Superman, and all in fairly recent history. And this is just random events from the top of my head. I'm probably forgetting at least a 100 more. This dude spent a few years ducking undead FBI agent dudes. lol.


Even in the movies the dudes a ****in punching bag. lol.




Superman's floor is where these guys are, and his ceiling is a whole level Hulk doesn't and can't fight at. A place where guys like Dr Manhattan are World Forger believe they would ultimately lose to Superman. Samson and Namor also punched out Hulk, he is not unbeatable.

Originally posted by Juntai
Thanos eye blasted Hulk down in Infinity.
Thing punched Hulk out.
Zues punched out Hulk.
Cap punched Hulk out.
Red Hulk beat Hulk a few different times, even snapped his arm once.
Sentry while trying to lose still put Hulk down.
Can't recall his name, but in the mid-2000s a skrull punched Hulk out.

This isnt even trying to get in and nitpick random single panels and claim them as some weird type of having a victory like you try to do with Superman, and all in fairly recent history. And this is just random events from the top of my head. I'm probably forgetting at least a 100 more. This dude spent a few years ducking undead FBI agent dudes. lol.


Even in the movies the dudes a ****in punching bag. lol.




Superman's floor is where these guys are, and his ceiling is a whole level Hulk doesn't and can't fight at. A place where guys like Dr Manhattan are World Forger believe they would ultimately lose to Superman.

Thanos eye Blasted him and he was still awake. You mentioning that is like me bringing up Orion blasting Supes. It happened, Superman fell but he was still active.

Thing punched out a mind controlled Hulk. Doesn't count.

Zeus did beat Hulk. I'll give you that.

Cap didn't beat Hulk. Post the scan and issue number.

Red Hulm absorbed his power and beat him. This is the same reason I didn't bring up Parasite raping Supes.

Show me Sentry koing Hulk.

Lol... keep believing Superman have a higher sealing. Like I said, he's been dropped more times than any Herald, ANY. People bash Thor but Superman has been knocked out FAR more times than Thor. Let's not even mention Hulk here. Mongul, Kalibak, Red Cloud (lol), no one mentioned there is physically ocerpowering Hulk.

Originally posted by lawest9
Samson and Namor also punched out Hulk, he is not unbeatable.

Show me

Originally posted by carver9
Show me Don't play games brother, you know when. and where it happened

Originally posted by carver9
Thanos eye Blasted him and he was still awake. You mentioning that is like me bringing up Orion blasting Supes. It happened, Superman fell but he was still active.

Thing punched out a mind controlled Hulk. Doesn't count.

Zeus did beat Hulk. I'll give you that.

Cap didn't beat Hulk. Post the scan and issue number.

Red Hulm absorbed his power and beat him. This is the same reason I didn't bring up Parasite raping Supes.

Show me Sentry koing Hulk.

Lol... keep believing Superman have a higher sealing. Like I said, he's been dropped more times than any Herald, ANY. People bash Thor but Superman has been knocked out FAR more times than Thor. Let's not even mention Hulk here. Mongul, Kalibak, Red Cloud (lol), no one mentioned there is physically ocerpowering Hulk.

He eye blasted him out of the fight. You want to bring up being sucker-hit by a tractor and popping back up and still fighting. Hulk was crawling around on the ground. lol.

Red Hulk breaking his arm, you say its using his own power, but want to point out the gravity sheath making Superman hit himself.

Sentry beat Hulk back into Banner while trying to lose. lol.

Hypocrisy is what this is called.

Everything you've argued through here is laughable.


And here's Cap beating the **** out of Hulk in a completely one sided stomp. I guess Spiderman punched him once too when he's going down.

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111195111/5779653-719867-000002.jpg
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111195111/5779654-4857574-3933402-spidey%2Band%2Bcap%2Bvs%2Brhino%2Band%2Bhulk%2B2.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/2/28811/719875-0000002.jpg


But hey, Red Cloud amped with the powers of a god by Luthor choked Superman and still didn't put him down. And deathstroke knocked him off balance while he was disoriented from the tidal effect. lolz, rite?

Superman does get roughed up occasionally. and he can be taken off guard if someone has more power than he's anticipating, but Kalibak is a New God. Mongol is a galactic threat.

And that's still Superman's floor. He's still holding back while playing Superhero. He's beat both of these characters by spinning a circle real fast. Hell, he beat Darkseid and an army of parademons and bfred them by spinning in a circle fast in the middle of a whole different fight.

Originally posted by lawest9
Don't play games brother, you know when. and where it happened


Show me.

https://ibb.co/kGHrhcq

Originally posted by Juntai
He eye blasted him out of the fight. You want to bring up being sucker-hit by a tractor and popping back up and still fighting. Hulk was crawling around on the ground. lol.

Red Hulk breaking his arm, you say its using his own power, but want to point out the gravity sheath making Superman hit himself.

Sentry beat Hulk back into Banner while trying to lose. lol.

Hypocrisy is what this is called.

Everything you've argued through here is laughable.


And here's Cap beating the **** out of Hulk in a completely one sided stomp. I guess Spiderman punched him once too when he's going down.

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111195111/5779653-719867-000002.jpg
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111195111/5779654-4857574-3933402-spidey%2Band%2Bcap%2Bvs%2Brhino%2Band%2Bhulk%2B2.jpg
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/2/28811/719875-0000002.jpg


But hey, Red Cloud amped with the powers of a god by Luthor choked Superman and still didn't put him down. And deathstroke knocked him off balance while he was disoriented from the tidal effect. lolz, rite?

Where is he eye blasted out of the fight here?

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11124/111246093/5178694-thanos---the-infinity-finale-%282016%29-%28digital-empire%29-015.jpg

Next panel, Hulk is right behind him with a punch until he was stopped. Are you OK? I already showed you what a knock out looks like with the Superman scans I posted.

Red Hulk was absorbing his power the entire time. Weakening him, he should be able to overpower him. This is the same guy that took out Odin Force amped Thor with ease and stomped Sentry. Why can't he beat a weakened Hulk? Lol... Deathstroke shields doesn't weaken the opponent, it just redirect the kinetic energy the target is throwing at it. It also didn't amplify Deathstroke punches or kicks either. Why are you not grasping this? Lol.

I agree, it is funny that Superman got koed by Titano, Kalibak, Mongul, Tolman and almost killed by Red Cloud. Do you want me to post scans of some no name aliens overpowering him as well? I can if you want.

What's the issue number of those scans you posted with Hulk vs Cap?

Lol at power of a God. Keep trying to make her look decent. She lost to a group of Superman who flew around her face suffocating her. Some God power.

I found the comic, let me read it right quick.

Fallen Son. Death of Captain America.


Again. Those are Superman's floor. Holding back. Running around playing with the other heros and villains.

But he reaches levels Hulk can't.


This is what happens when Hulk fights a god.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f94ac2914225a36eed18f9b1c350a8bb

This is what happens when Superman fights an even more powerful god.
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244676/5325493-0768573335-17622.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
Fallen Son. Death of Captain America.


Again. Those are Superman's floor. Holding back.


This is what happens when Hulk fights a god.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f94ac2914225a36eed18f9b1c350a8bb

This is what happens when Superman fights an even more powerful god.
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244676/5325493-0768573335-17622.jpg

Read it and it was a memory of an event that Spiderman was thinking about while getting his head caved in by Rhino.

So you're saying Superman allowed himself to get koed and almost killed? That make sense.

Zeus is more powerful than Darkseid and you forgot to post the scan of Superman flying Darkseid near the sun. That was an amped Superman and what's so impressive about beating Darkseid?

Edit

Originally posted by carver9
Read it and it was a memory of an event that Spiderman was thinking about while getting his head caved in by Rhino.

So you're saying Superman allowed himself to get koed and almost killed? That make sense.

Zeus is more powerful than Darkseid and you forgot to post the scan of Superman flying Darkseid near the sun. That was an amped Superman and what's so impressive about beating Darkseid? Zues is not powerful than Darkseid.

And Superman didn't fly Darkseid to the sun in that issue.

Originally posted by Juntai
Zues is not powerful than Darkseid.

And Superman didn't fly Darkseid to the sun in that issue.

Yep, he is more powerful...

And yes, you are correct, it wasn't that issue but he was amped.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep, he is more powerful...

And yes, you are correct, it wasn't that issue but he was amped.

No he isn't more powerful.


Prove he was amped.

Diesldude, stop replying. Your post isn't even worth reading. The logic behind it is gasp worthy. Leave this to Juntai.

Like Idk why Diesl think people take him serious

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Like Idk why Diesl think people take him serious here comes the illiterate dimwitted cheerleader.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Like Idk why Alberto think people take him serious
Fixed. And its official

Originally posted by Galan007
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DearestWillingBaiji-small.gif
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think it's any secret that Alberto is a troll.

I'm such a troll that your fellow buddy Delta asked to BZ me. at the end of the day all said and done you clowns are still going to respond to me whenever I speak facts about your boyscout.

Originally posted by Diesldude
here comes the illiterate dimwitted cheerleader.

Ima be 100% honest with you, its not even cheerleading, it's just outright telling it how it is, You, Qwerty, Abhi, Saint, and Delta are by far the most idiotic humans i've ever met in existence. when i hear the phone call that any of you are gone from this earth i'm gonna be laughing my ass off, and i genuinely mean it. take it how you wanna take it

Originally posted by Juntai
Zues is not powerful than Darkseid.

And Superman didn't fly Darkseid to the sun in that issue.

Yes, Yes he is. And it was an avatar, it wasn't even the real Darkseid. You're just as bad as Abhi holy shit

https://i.postimg.cc/DSM1V8ht/ryan-reynolds-facepalm-gif.gif

Go ahead and name his "high showings" so i can dismantle all of it again. On an Average, Hulk stomps Superman. Hyperion stopping 2 "planets" from colliding shits on anything Superman ever done.

Not sure why I was named, but just ignore him guys, and report him and as when necessary.

Like I just did. I wasn't even interacting with him, and he's being insulting as per usual.

Squall, just let him be. He can shout into the void by himself if he wants.

You know what's hilarious? It could be argued it was moon sized. The curvature was constantly in view.

https://i.postimg.cc/gLq6MbvJ/169258688-10221532564038211-8158811465185899594-n.jpg

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
You know what's hilarious? It could be argued it was moon sized. The curvature was constantly in view.

https://i.postimg.cc/gLq6MbvJ/169258688-10221532564038211-8158811465185899594-n.jpg Doesn't mean anything. You can see the curvature in the Hyperion trying to hold planets apart scans also. In fact, the Earths he held apart are maybe ten or fifteen Hyperions tall.


See how ****ing dumb you sound?

Originally posted by Juntai
Doesn't mean anything. You can see the curvature in the Hyperion trying to hold planets apart scans also. In fact, the Earths he held apart are maybe ten or fifteen Hyperions tall.


See how ****ing dumb you sound?

In most of the scans the curvature is clear shown as Superman walked along it and attempted to get off. We don't know the density of the planet Supes is on, nor how weakened he is by worldforgers trap or what the atmospheric pressure is we have no idea what was required for him to escape. All we can go on is the visual representation of the planet, and It was Moon sized and it had a big ass cavern filled with dead Supermen inside it.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
We'll get to the Apokilips collison after you' tell me the size of that planet. One by one. i'm a patient guy Apokolips and New Genesis are twin planets. Though some like to claim half a galaxy since they were formed of a galaxy pulled together and split, I don't think that's the greatest estimate. Nor do I like counting the higher dimensional sizing ratio for the comparison, because they see the lower dimensional worlds as marbled sized from the 4th world.

New Genesis is written to be large enough that Earth could barely displace the water in any of it's smallest lakes.


Ironically, I could show a lot of scans also showing the curvature of New Genesis or Apokolips in the backround, just to show how stupid using that as any metric in a comic is.

So it was left to the fans interpretation.
The writer contradicted himself more than once during that arc.