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he is green , he has to be white in order to be a strong being

https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/268474/screenshots/4738458/clapping-inclusive.gif

https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/bow-gif-16.gif

Thunder clap, gamma blast, ability to overcome bfr. Speed that gets augmented when angry. Preventative for matter manipulation, transmutation. Adapting abilities. Etc, etc, etc..

Originally posted by carver9
Thunder clap, gamma blast, ability to overcome bfr. Speed that gets augmented when angry. Preventative for matter manipulation, transmutation. Adapting abilities. Etc, etc, etc..

How can Hulk overcome bfr?

Where in comics does it say that Hulk's speed is augmented further when more angry?

Most top tiers have defenses against that. But thats not versatility (not offense).

You take one adapting feat in Hulk's whole career (breathing underwater) and think its going to fly on the forum? Especially when Hulk has not adapted anytime in battle.

Originally posted by h1a8
How can Hulk overcome bfr?

Where in comics does it say that Hulk's speed is augmented further when more angry?

Most top tiers have defenses against that. But thats not versatility (not offense).

You take one adapting feat in Hulk's whole career (breathing underwater) and think its going to fly on the forum? Especially when Hulk has not adapted anytime in battle.

His body adapts to extremes in temperature, his lungs adapt to environment, his strength increases are an adaptation, his eyes adapt to detect invisible beings, his body has adapted in order to touch, grab, or hit intangible and energy based opponents. This has happened on panel. It is your choice to ignore these showings, or to acknowledge them.

hulk is so versatile he can create black hole in superman's brain

How did I forget about Hulk absorption abilities and yes, he's even absorbed cosmic energy before.

but you haven't put together a plan that shows he can take mags out carv. this is your chance to showcase hulk's exotic abilities. let the scans roll, man...

the biggest thing to overcome is the blood control. how does he avoid being made a mags puppet ala the avengers and she-hulk?

Aaahhhh, this is Hulk vs Magneto... like, the Magneto that was said on panel (backed by a team) that he isn't in Hulk league?

https://ibb.co/s3pdqb6

Question, I'm just curious... what is messing with Hulks blood suppose to do?

Originally posted by carver9
Aaahhhh, this is Hulk vs Magneto... like, the Magneto that was said on panel (backed by a team) that he isn't in Hulk league?

https://ibb.co/s3pdqb6



? How is this Hulk vs Magneto, when Mags isn't even talking in your scan.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
? How is this Hulk vs Magneto, when Mags isn't even talking in your scan.

🤣🤣🤣... he doesn't need to talk. Lol... what were you expecting, all of them to mind link and say the same statement at the same time. The writer made it clear they were no match for him.

Error... the BFR problem still persists...

Remove BFR and it's a different story.

Originally posted by carver9
🤣🤣🤣... he doesn't need to talk. Lol... what were you expecting, all of them to mind link and say the same statement at the same time. The writer made it clear they were no match for him.

facepalm first you say Hulk vs Mags, and this isn't even Hulk but Kluh, first mistake, then it's just a statement from another person that isn't Mags, someone who is afraid. Hence the statement of yours is beyond stu...

Clapping is not versatile. WTF.

I mean, there are some other good examples in the thread, but a damn toddler can clap.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Clapping is not versatile. WTF.

I mean, there are some other good examples in the thread, but a damn toddler can clap.

For some even clapping might be a challange...

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
facepalm first you say Hulk vs Mags, and this isn't even Hulk but Kluh, first mistake, then it's just a statement from another person that isn't Mags, someone who is afraid. Hence the statement of yours is beyond stu...

Kluh is Hulk, just a Hulk that doesn't care. Yes, it's a statement about a team Cable is HIGHLY familiar with from a character that knows the team potential. Mags doesn't need to say it. If Cap say Galactus is out of the Avenger league then he is out of their league since he knows the team potential. Cable knows Magneto, EVERYTHING about Magneto. I think you should move away from this topic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Clapping is not versatile. WTF.

I mean, there are some other good examples in the thread, but a damn toddler can clap.

When your clap can temporarily ko an Abstract being, it means something and should be mentioned.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
For some even clapping might be a challange...

it's all good bruh, you just gotta try to put your two hands together

there you go, you almost did it.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-17-2015/8e3bKw.gif

^at least you tried to be funny :/, maybe next time.
Originally posted by carver9
Kluh is Hulk, just a Hulk that doesn't care. Yes, it's a statement about a team Cable is HIGHLY familiar with from a character that knows the team potential. Mags doesn't need to say it. If Cap say Galactus is out of the Avenger league then he is out of their league since he knows the team potential. Cable knows Magneto, EVERYTHING about Magneto. I think you should move away from this topic.

dur If Cap Says that Silver Surfer is out of the Avengers league then he isn't because Thor would still beat SS sorry arse.

Lol at comparing Hulk to G. That is a new low.

lol

anyway, the fight is in a standard ring, no bfr is available unless you consider mag's opening a black hole a means to bfr....

as for what can blood control do:

https://imgur.com/a/Gsromkq

she-hulk couldn't break free until mags let her. i have my own feelings how the blood thing would go, but i wonder if in the hulk's arsenal anyone can think of something that would directly counter that attack. in theory, i'm not sure the blood thing would actually ko hulk, but it would likely incapacitate him long enough to count for a forum win. mags could literally pull all the blood out of the hulk which might briefly ko him before the healing factor kicked in i guess.

let's see some real versatility scans of hulk that might convince someone he could win a forum match against mags.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^at least you tried to be funny :/, maybe next time.


dur If Cap Says that Silver Surfer is out of the Avengers league then he isn't because Thor would still beat SS sorry arse.

Lol at comparing Hulk to G. That is a new low.

why do you clap so charismatically

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/8/39/787025761-full-retard.gif

In that case, I don't believe that Magneto has the power to restrain the Hulk for long. The Hulk pushed the Inbetweener who was at half power. I can't imagine Magneto being even close to being as powerful as even half of the Inbetweener.

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case, I don't believe that Magneto has the power to restrain the Hulk for long. The Hulk pushed the Inbetweener who was at half power. I can't imagine Magneto being even close to being as powerful as even half of the Inbetweener.

Depends on the version of Mags. I see classic Mags doing it.

Originally posted by MrMind
why do you clap so charismatically

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/8/39/787025761-full-retard.gif

This guy gets off on making fun of the mentally challenged or people born with handicaps. Pure douche bag.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Depends on the version of Mags. I see classic Mags doing it.

The only way that I can see Magneto beating the Hulk is through BFR, or depowering the Hulk. Trying to restrain him just won't work, and I'm considering pre Uncanny X-Men issue 199. The Hulk has feats of strength that made the Shaper of Worlds have fits. He tore open dimensional barriers that were set to imprison a powerful race of demonic creatures during his time on the Crossroads. His upper level strength feats are ridiculous.

Originally posted by Stoic
The only way that I can see Magneto beating the Hulk is through BFR, or depowering the Hulk. Trying to restrain him just won't work, and I'm considering pre Uncanny X-Men issue 199. The Hulk has feats of strength that made the Shaper of Worlds have fits. He tore open dimensional barriers that were set to imprison a powerful race of demonic creatures during his time on the Crossroads. His upper level strength feats are ridiculous.

Isn't restraining Hulk a prerequisite to bfr him? Sure, he won't hold him forever, there we agree but he should be able get rid of him.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Isn't restraining Hulk a prerequisite to bfr him? Sure, he won't hold him forever, there we agree but he should be able get rid of him.

Leo turned BRF off. This is why I said that. I just can't see Magneto restraining the Hulk, and we're about to get a taste of that in the next Hulk comic where he likely flattens the U-Foes. I could see him messing with his connection to the Gamma Force and turning him back into Joe Fixit as is his current personality, but straight up restraining him wouldn't work for long.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
^at least you tried to be funny :/, maybe next time.


dur If Cap Says that Silver Surfer is out of the Avengers league then he isn't because Thor would still beat SS sorry arse.

Lol at comparing Hulk to G. That is a new low.

Cap wouldn't say that because he knows people on his team is powerful enough to fight Surfer. Cable knows no one on the team is powerful enough to fight Hulk. There's a difference here.

Okay, but Magneto was severely depowered at the time.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

anyway, the fight is in a standard ring, no bfr is available unless you consider mag's opening a black hole a means to bfr....

as for what can blood control do:

https://imgur.com/a/Gsromkq

she-hulk couldn't break free until mags let her. i have my own feelings how the blood thing would go, but i wonder if in the hulk's arsenal anyone can think of something that would directly counter that attack. in theory, i'm not sure the blood thing would actually ko hulk, but it would likely incapacitate him long enough to count for a forum win. mags could literally pull all the blood out of the hulk which might briefly ko him before the healing factor kicked in i guess.

let's see some real versatility scans of hulk that might convince someone he could win a forum match against mags.

Survives a gun that rewrites molecules on a subatomic level...

https://m.imgur.com/DU4bdSH

His powers allow him to withstand zero atmosphere environment...

https://m.imgur.com/PuLa1Bc

His body counter a weapon that paralyzes the internal motor response...

https://m.imgur.com/wteQyuf

This...

https://m.imgur.com/6XhtsPu

Toxin built to specifically kill him and his body resist it...

https://m.imgur.com/WwrJSyw
https://m.imgur.com/pIBgyno
https://m.imgur.com/qRjMIXj
https://m.imgur.com/0YntfUK


His body resist being turned into stone...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213429/5566535-4908462377-47981.jpg

Turned to glass and resisted...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11134/111345264/6307461-6306691-3156622-6631681194-savag.jpg

He was even warped into the size of a mouse and his body countered it and he was back to his normal size in a couple of panels.

With that said, Magneto blood crap will work in the beginning but Hulk will resist it in no time and knock him clean out.

Compared to Thor, Hulk IS a one dimensional brick.


What could he do is Thor dropped him into the Dark Dimension, or just knocked him in to space?

Good thing Thor is much dumber than Hulk at his worst.

Anyway, he would come back even stronger.

Then you have him seeing astral forms/ghosts, resisting matter manipulation and so on...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Then you have him seeing astral forms/ghosts, resisting matter manipulation and so on...

👍👍. Telepathic resistance/immunity.

Growing gills or surviving in the vacuum of outer space...

https://i.stack.imgur.com/OMsJt.png

I tried clapping at Magneto and he literally reversed it at Hulk.

There's no way I could think of to incapacitate Magneto with his shields, before Hulk gets lifted into the air by his blood and shredded to bits. 🤷‍♂️

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Growing gills or surviving in the vacuum of outer space...

Clearing a small army and flattening a section in a forest with his super breath.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I tried clapping at Magneto and he literally reversed it at Hulk.

There's no way I could think of to incapacitate Magneto with his shields, before Hulk gets lifted into the air by his blood and shredded to bits. 🤷‍♂️

Fast and brutal enough to keep Hulk from healing and shrugging it off, huh? Based on what, exactly?

We forget you are so knowledgeable about Magneto... you, who thought that Fatal Attractions was non-canon vin

You're going to be banished to the Rage Zone, Dambo. The kmcouncil has decided.

Surrounded by Somalians, never allowed to leave!

Because he wouldn't be able to do anything when he's in the air 🤷‍♂️ his blood is getting pulled, not his muscles, nothing to fight against.

That would be GG.

It's the same reason no Hulk fan will ever take a battlezone against Thor. Because Thor would beat every incarnation of the Hulk combined if he's allowed to use his powers.

ENOUGH OF YOU.


GUARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



https://i.ibb.co/rHh1wZP/somalia.png



Take Mister Dambo to his new home. And don't forget to have some fun on your way there.

that's a very formidable squad right there

Originally posted by Damborgson
I tried clapping at Magneto and he literally reversed it at Hulk.

There's no way I could think of to incapacitate Magneto with his shields, before Hulk gets lifted into the air by his blood and shredded to bits. 🤷‍♂️

I think this is more complicated than controlling blood and I feel confident Magneto isn't overpowering Hulk control over his own body...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378504/6828547-hulk%202.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378504/6828549-hulk%203.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378504/6828550-hulk%204.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378504/6828551-hulk%205.jpg

Also, I can't think of a single person who have ripped through more shields than the Hulk.

Originally posted by Damborgson




It's the same reason no Hulk fan will ever take a battlezone against Thor. Because Thor would beat every incarnation of the Hulk combined if he's allowed to use his powers.



Well damn.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
ENOUGH OF YOU.


GUARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



https://i.ibb.co/rHh1wZP/somalia.png



Take Mister Dambo to his new home. And don't forget to have some fun on your way there.

You fool.

Do you know who these men are ?

They'll be my horsemen when I take over this site. An elite squadron of disabled individuals.

So from the 'arguments' posted, it's basically of the same intellectual level as 'Batman/Reed find a way'.

Good debating glad we found the time machine back to 2005 KMC, guys.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You fool.

Do you know who these men are ?

They'll be my horsemen when I take over this site. An elite squadron of disabled individuals.

They're not going to take orders from you.

Because they know your favorite hero is nothing more than Jane's dog:

https://i.ibb.co/SrgcQwp/dog.png

I have transferred all my savings to Aaron's account.

He will never stop hurting you.

Unfortunately, my savings weren't enough... I had to sacrifice Lord Wolverine to Black T'Charlie

Originally posted by carver9
When your clap can temporarily ko an Abstract being, it means something and should be mentioned.

That's not versatility, which is the point of the thread.

Superman is a flying brick who always gets speedblitzed by Grundy who always loses to powerless humans in melee.

Let that sink in.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So from the 'arguments' posted, it's basically of the same intellectual level as 'Batman/Reed find a way'.

Good debating glad we found the time machine back to 2005 KMC, guys.

i think the general idea is that the hulk has performed several impossible and even 'illogical' feats. overcoming mag's control could just be one more. the other thing i've garnered is that even if he did control him for a time, hulk might be able to overcome that control as his power grew. without bfr what would mags do with him once he's airborne? hulk is immortal. he'd win via attrition. mags could try to...pull him apart? hulk would heal. sooo.... i dunno.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Superman is a flying brick who always gets speedblitzed by Grundy who always loses to powerless humans in melee.

Let that sink in.

1 - That's not even true.
2 - Superman isn't in this thread.

isn't superman more of a state of mind at this point? in that sense, he's in every thread....

Originally posted by leonidas
i think the general idea is that the hulk has performed several impossible and even 'illogical' feats. overcoming mag's control could just be one more. the other thing i've garnered is that even if he did control him for a time, hulk might be able to overcome that control as his power grew. without bfr what would mags do with him once he's airborne? hulk is immortal. he'd win via attrition. mags could try to...pull him apart? hulk would heal. sooo.... i dunno.

But what control is he overriding? Hulk has never shown control of his blood cells, for example.

It just boils down to 'Yeah well, Reed has done impossible intelligence feats, so he wins'.

Immortality is a copout. Mr Immortal doesn't win every match, nor does Deadpool in a street level match etc....

Originally posted by leonidas
isn't superman more of a state of mind at this point? in that sense, he's in every thread....

Originally posted by -Pr-
1 - That's not even true.
2 - Superman isn't in this thread.

1 - it is.

2 - never stopped me.

Originally posted by leonidas
isn't superman more of a state of mind at this point? in that sense, he's in every thread....



Thank you, Leo.

Even when he isn't mentioned, you can feel his and his fanboys' presence.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Superman is a flying brick who always gets speedblitzed by Grundy who always loses to powerless humans in melee.

Let that sink in.

superman wishes he can be versatile like hulk

Originally posted by MrMind
superman wishes he can be versatile like hulk

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
1 - it is.

2 - never stopped me.





Thank you, Leo.

Even when he isn't mentioned, you can feel his and his fanboys' presence.

Hyperbole is bad.

Oh, I know. I know...

https://media.giphy.com/media/31UJn87m2S7r6Nnec8/giphy.gif

Hey anyone know how long someone needs to be incapacitated for it to count as a forum win?

Originally posted by leonidas
Hey anyone know how long someone needs to be incapacitated for it to count as a forum win?

Good question. As far as I know, that part was never clear.


From google:

In most cases, a knockout lasts less than 10 seconds, after which the person regains consciousness. However, a bad knockout can last longer than a minute and even several minutes. The length of the knockout depends on the severity of the concussion and whether or not the brainstem was damaged.


Of course, we need to factor in that comics can be weird about it, too.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Good question. As far as I know, that part was never clear.


From google:

In most cases, a knockout lasts less than 10 seconds, after which the person regains consciousness. However, a bad knockout can last longer than a minute and even several minutes. The length of the knockout depends on the severity of the concussion and whether or not the brainstem was damaged.


Of course, we need to factor in that comics can be weird about it, too.

Or fiction in general. In reality you don't get KOed and are out for hours and wake up with just a headache before being fine. I think it was being unconscious for even a few minutes could be a sign of serious brain damage or worse.

Correct. Jinzin, decade or two ago, was always reminding everyone on the basics of how a knockout works irl

In comics, it can last anywhere from fraction of a second (flash-ko) to even hours, as you said. Or longer

Which is fine, I guess, when the ko'd character has superhuman physicals, alien physiology, healing factor or some other power related to physical attributes.

But those extreme knockouts happen to everyone, even completely powerless heroes/villains.

Originally posted by leonidas
Hey anyone know how long someone needs to be incapacitated for it to count as a forum win?

I always thought it was for a 10 count like a boxing match

So Kirkman style fights aren't very realistic?

You know, kicking ass with your intestines dangling out?

Originally posted by leonidas
Hey anyone know how long someone needs to be incapacitated for it to count as a forum win?

I've no hard rule on it, but my idea was always like a boxing ten count. But I mean, if you can choke someone out and they're unconscious, then i don't know.

Lmao at using Shaw as an example.

Originally posted by beatboks
I always thought it was for a 10 count like a boxing match

Originally posted by -Pr-
I've no hard rule on it, but my idea was always like a boxing ten count. But I mean, if you can choke someone out and they're unconscious, then i don't know.

What about incap'ing someone via other method?

Restraining, immobilizing, etc.?

Parker can spam webs so much, for example, that even characters who can tear it like paper will spend some time getting out of it, simply because it's so sticky and gets everywhere...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao at using Shaw as an example.

Yeah, Shaw's not the best example, not just because of the nature of his abilities, but because he lost, iirc.

Magneto can be clobbered, sure, but he does have many options to avoid that or prevent the opponent from doing that.

Even when writers reduce him to being the magnet-guy, he can still be incredibly creative with just his metal control.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lmao at using Shaw as an example.

Shaw would never be able to take one of the Hulk's better punches my guy, so it's actually a legitimate point that I made. This isn't back in the day 75 ton She Hulk that we're talking about.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I see it as an incapacitation win. Just like Spidey burying Juggy in concrete - he's still sentient, conscious, alive and digging his way out, but he's not harming Spidey.

If I fight a young boy, and hold him down - doesn't matter if he's still fighting back, or healing, I'm still controlling his limbs.

But yeah,all the responses for Hulk seem to boil down to 'he finds a way'.

No it isn't if there's a power struggle. Incapacitated means there would be no struggle. We know that there would be, and we also know that Magneto doesn't have to power to hold the Hulk. If he does, that would mean that Magneto would outshine the Inbetweener at half power, and that doesnt really make much sense.

Good post. I can agree with that

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If I fight a young boy, and hold him down

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/styles/kmc/kmcforumslogo2.gif

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/styles/kmc/kmcforumslogo2.gif

I am glad you spotted that. You would never fail me.

Originally posted by Stoic
No it isn't if there's a power struggle. Incapacitated means there would be no struggle. We know that there would be, and we also know that Magneto doesn't have to power to hold the Hulk. If he does, that would mean that Magneto would outshine the Inbetweener at half power, and that doesnt really make much sense.

Magneto can just lift Hulk and hold him there casually.
Hulk cant struggle against that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Good post. I can agree with that

I point out Iron Fist outshines Spider-Man against a common enemy, Black Tarantula, and this proves Danny should be able to defeat Shang Chi rather easily, and get countered that BT was "jobbing".

Yet Hulk outshines In Betweener, and people just accept it as a "feat". No possibility In Betweener, even at half power, was jobbing for Hulk.

No double standards there.

Has Graviton faced Hulk? He should be able to casually restrain him

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Has Graviton faced Hulk? He should be able to casually restrain him

Are you sure about that?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Has Graviton faced Hulk? He should be able to casually restrain him

Yes and Hulk one shot koed him.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes and Hulk one shot koed him.

Are you sure about that?

Originally posted by cdtm
Are you sure about that?

Yes

What?

When Hulk fought Graviton?

Carver Comics Volume 1 Issue 1?

how does he overcome bfr? Maybe I missed where someone explained it

no bfr.

Originally posted by Delta1938
For me the problem is how long does it need to be to count as a win? If they're immobilized you're winning. But winning isn't the same as having won. Should it be the same amount of time as how long it takes someone to get back for it to count as BFR?

no idea. but i think the case with the hulk here is different from ds's juggernaut example. jugg's powers don't continually escalate like hulk's do. i don't think it would be too long before hulk's strength simply exceeded mag's power. or maybe his blood adapts. i also don't know how it can be called an incapacitation when we don't even know how long someone needs to be incapacitated FOR to earn a win...? i don't see mags holding him for long--a minute? less? he can go full wb and just overwhelm mags with energy. i don't think anyone would say mags could contain wbh or deal easily with the energy hulk puts off. i think it's much more likely hulk would go full wb than there is of his losing via incapacitation. and unlike a bz where hulk was limited, there's no reason to prevent his going wb.

even staying short of that though, there is reason to think hulk might be able to overcome that type of control if he has time.

to me, an incapacitation means the enemy is prone, done, in a position where he/she/it can be killed. ww incapacitates with the lasso. the webbing would incapacitate SOME, but only delay others. i can't believe in all the time the forum's been around the rule has never been fleshed out clearly. not blaming anyone, it's just weird is all. shrug

I just don't get why people tend to lowball Hulk. Magneto stands no chance. Even Reed compared Hulk to the Phoenix Force and called him an Omega level threat...

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/10/104431/3849925-asm692_0016.jpg

Ironman compared him to a Celestial destroying Robot (that actually fought against the entire Celestial race).

Good thing Mags easily handled Phoenix twice, then

Do people really lowball him though Carver? Even in a comics forum we have to be somewhat realistic.

When two people both have planetary level strength and durability (just an example) but one of them flies, can move and react at 187,000 mph and oh yeah, shoots lasers right out of they're ****ing face or control electromagnetism, storms wtf ever. Its kind of a no brainer who wins.

Now obviously, if he clearly outclassed them so much they can't hurt him is a different story.

Originally posted by cdtm
Are you sure about that?

I'm thinking power set. By negating the gravity in a localized area he could make hulk helpless

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Do people really lowball him though Carver? Even in a comics forum we have to be somewhat realistic.

When two people both have planetary level strength and durability (just an example) but one of them flies, can move and react at 187,000 mph and oh yeah, shoots lasers right out of they're ****ing face or control electromagnetism, storms wtf ever. Its kind of a no brainer who wins.

Now obviously, if he clearly outclassed them so much they can't hurt him is a different story.

This. I mean, there's a reason people don't draft him in BZs. Even Carver doesn't - I think to date I'm the only one who has willingly chosen WBH in a tourney.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Do people really lowball him though Carver? Even in a comics forum we have to be somewhat realistic.

When two people both have planetary level strength and durability (just an example) but one of them flies, can move and react at 187,000 mph and oh yeah, shoots lasers right out of they're ****ing face or control electromagnetism, storms wtf ever. Its kind of a no brainer who wins.

Now obviously, if he clearly outclassed them so much they can't hurt him is a different story.

I always see flight and reflexes as something different. Example, Surfer can easily fly billions of times the speed of light but I would still give Diana the edge overall reflexes. Gladiator can fly millions of times the speed of light and can basically do everything you've mentioned but I would give JLA Darkseid the edge over him, even though he doesn't have a single speed ft during that Era (hell, even now) that come close to what Gladiator have performed. Now we can easily say as soon as the bell ring, Darkseid is a statue to Gladiator and Gladiator punch him in the face with a hundred planetary level punches in less than a nano second but we both know this isn't true. I feel like this, if you're going to argue something, then be consistent. Yes, some beings might have showings of tagging faster beings or being too fast for someone to see, probably ONCE but if you're going to argue speed, it needs to be across the board. Is Surfer, Gladiator, Wonder Woman, Northstar, Quick Silver, Monica, to fast for Darkseid to react to which leads to them having a life time to kill him or can he slap them to sleep because on panel showings prove he can. I'm just using him as an example.

I can use World Forger as well. I can use Monarch, Orion, etc... lol, make an Orion vs Monica/Spectrum thread and let's see the results. There's a reason I'm using DC characters as well.

Originally posted by carver9
I always see flight and reflexes as something different. Example, Surfer can easily fly billions of times the speed of light but I would still give Diana the edge overall reflexes. Gladiator can fly millions of times the speed of light and can basically do everything you've mentioned but I would give JLA Darkseid the edge over him, even though he doesn't have a single speed ft during that Era (hell, even now) that come close to what Gladiator have performed. Now we can easily say as soon as the bell ring, Darkseid is a statue to Gladiator and Gladiator punch him in the face with a hundred planetary level punches in less than a nano second but we both know this isn't true. I feel like this, if you're going to argue something, then be consistent. Yes, some beings might have showings of tagging faster beings or being too fast for someone to see, probably ONCE but if you're going to argue speed, it needs to be across the board. Is Surfer, Gladiator, Wonder Woman, Northstar, Quick Silver, Monica, to fast for Darkseid to react to which leads to them having a life time to kill him or can he slap them to sleep because on panel showings prove he can. I'm just using him as an example.

I can use World Forger as well. I can use Monarch, Orion, etc... lol, make an Orion vs Monica/Spectrum thread and let's see the results. There's a reason I'm using DC characters as well.

Jesus.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Jesus.

Hey, if you're ok with debating primarily off of powerset, please let me know.

Lmao we are STILL on this powerset argument....Carver, I am beginning to think you are actually legally retarded.

Wait, that was in response to what I wrote? Ok, I'm just saying if two people have 3 powers that are comparable, but one has 3 more powers than the other...

Originally posted by carver9
Hey, if you're ok with debating primarily off of powerset, please let me know.

No, because that's not what we do. That post was just horrendous.

I sometimes think that debating off of powerset is more realistic than what they do in comics. Thats mainly due to shitty writing.

I mean, I personally think someone like Philo would run circles around what these writers do with someone like Thor or Magnetos powerset.

I sometimes think that debating off of powerset is more realistic than what they do in comics. Thats mainly due to shitty writing.

I mean, I personally think someone like Philo would run circles around what these writers do with someone like Thor or Magnetos powerset.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I sometimes think that debating off of powerset is more realistic than what they do in comics. Thats mainly due to shitty writing.

I mean, I personally think someone like Philo would run circles around what these writers do with someone like Thor or Magnetos powerset.

You're not wrong.

Most of the people on this board have at least one or two characters that they know far better than some random writer that came onboard in the last month. And you will have people say "well you're not a writer, how can you know better than a writer?". This is the internet age. If I wanted to read Amazing Spider-Man 1-700, I can do that.

But will random writer 47 take the time to do that? I don't think so.

But if you hand someone that has done the reading, and knows the character that well, then they're obviously going to write a version of the character that's far more efficient/effective in a fight than other writers have.

We also have posters who actually know a bit about science etc. And conversely, comic writers who admit they make mistakes with science.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We also have posters who actually know a bit about science etc. And conversely, comic writers who admit they make mistakes with science.

Yup.

I mean, I know all my science from Star Trek, and I'd still be more convincing than some of those guys.

Is the writer even thinking about those things though when writing stories? Some probably do but its rare.

Originally posted by carver9
Is the writer even thinking about those things though when writing stories? Some probably do but its rare.

A lot of comics border on, if not completely become science fiction. Good science fiction, even if it's not the hard kind, has to, imo, have at least a basic scientific foundation. And it has to be consistent.

Using vague words that sound impressive isn't good enough when this is what they're being paid to do for a living.

This is an interesting thread. At what point does versatility outweigh raw power?

For example : If you were forming a team and needed a brick/tank, who would you choose : Gladiator or Hulk, Captain Marvel (Shazam) or Hulk, Wonderman or Hulk, Blue Marvel or Hulk, Hickman's Hyperion or Hulk? IMHO, Hulk would be any of these guys for the majority in a straight up fight but flight + their other powers makes it so they can do things he can never do.

problem with that is in a forum he is often limited to below wbh level. you think anyone you named can beat wbh? i certainly don't. in a no bfr environment i think hulk would throttle all the people you named... if ALL of his showings are considered valid, his powerset is actually pretty ridiculous. i mean hulk can adapt to breathing underwater, doesn't need to breathe in space (he doesn't really HAVE to hold his breath...immortal hulk has made it even more redundant), his healing factor is ridiculous, he's performed legit impossible feats --i mean LEGIT impossible feats like punching time, holding energy. his 'strength' is as much a deux ex machina as thor's hammer in some cases--and those feats were well BEFORE he was even wwh let alone wbh. his ability to adapt to things is often overlooked because it's not often used. but he's adapted to things about as often as thor has used the godblast, or lobo has used clones. yet it is NEVER a factor in his matches. it is a little puzzling. marvel itself seems to consider hulk one of if not its MOST powerful hero, but that doesn't translate at all to the forum.....

Originally posted by leonidas
problem with that is in a forum he is often limited to below wbh level. you think anyone you named can beat wbh? i certainly don't. in a no bfr environment i think hulk would throttle all the people you named... if ALL of his showings are considered valid, his powerset is actually pretty ridiculous. i mean hulk can adapt to breathing underwater, doesn't need to breathe in space (he doesn't really HAVE to hold his breath...immortal hulk has made it even more redundant), his healing factor is ridiculous, he's performed legit impossible feats --i mean LEGIT impossible feats like punching time, holding energy. his 'strength' is as much a deux ex machina as thor's hammer in some cases--and those feats were well BEFORE he was even wwh let alone wbh. his ability to adapt to things is often overlooked because it's not often used. but he's adapted to things about as often as thor has used the godblast, or lobo has used clones. yet it is NEVER a factor in his matches. it is a little puzzling. marvel itself seems to consider hulk one of if not its MOST powerful hero, but that doesn't translate at all to the forum.....

Well, what has he adapted to? And I don't mean just becoming stronger, ect, or doing weird things via strength. What feats are there to work with? I wouldn't say he's completely restricted to this in a topic but there's only so far you can go beyond what he's actually done before it's No Limits Fallacy.

They considered Doomsday growing bones over his ears as adapting, lol, but discredit Hulk adapting showings that far exceeds that and let's not pretend Doomsday adapted to physical Damage because this was never shown.

Originally posted by carver9
They considered Doomsday growing bones over his ears as adapting, lol, but discredit Hulk adapting showings that far exceeds that and let's not pretend Doomsday adapted to physical Damage because this was never shown.

Uh, yes it was. And Doomsday did far more advanced than physically adapting his durability.

dd definitely showed more focus in regards to being able to adapt, but we know weaker hulks can adapt to breathing underwater and fury has said hulk can evolve to the point where he doesn't need oxygen if he were put in orbit. his varying degrees of healing are types of adaptation, as is his ability to perform the impossible feats i mentioned above. more recently he's been shown to both both absorb and emit energy, and of course his now immortal nature. his rage enables him to do things that...don't make sense like resist mind control, grow new glands in his body, his blood makes f'n flowers grow ffs none of these abilities are strength related. but he's been pigeon holed as this one dimensional brick. if his full range of abilities were taken into account, i think he's more than just a brick. quite a bit more.

I just feel like hulk isn’t given the same....consideration as other characters are. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
dd definitely showed more focus in regards to being able to adapt, but we know weaker hulks can adapt to breathing underwater and fury has said hulk can evolve to the point where he doesn't need oxygen if he were put in orbit. his varying degrees of healing are types of adaptation, as is his ability to perform the impossible feats i mentioned above. more recently he's been shown to both both absorb and emit energy, and of course his now immortal nature. his rage enables him to do things that...don't make sense like resist mind control, grow new glands in his body, his blood makes f'n flowers grow ffs none of these abilities are strength related. but he's been pigeon holed as this one dimensional brick. if his full range of abilities were taken into account, i think he's more than just a brick. quite a bit more.

Disagree on the rage making mind control resistence, but other than that(which I do see get brought up when he faces a telepath, at least previously) I have a feeling a lot of the more weird ones are rare to the point in a regular topic, they'd be pretty situational. Someone familiar could use them in a BZ, but it seems weird for them to be brought up in general unless it's a topic like this.

Easy answer, the Hulk. Nothing can hold him. Lol, Hulk punches a hole in a shield that even the Ebony Blade couldn't breach...

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk also breaks through the castles invulnerable walls when no-one else could:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16636619_Indestructible_Hulk_13_008.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16636620_Indestructible_Hulk_13_009.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16636621_Indestructible_Hulk_13_010.jpg

What if the scenario called for someone to lift classic Mjolnir?

Would you choose Hulk, Magneto or Graviton?

Hmmm so tough!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What if the scenario called for someone to lift classic Mjolnir?

Would you choose Hulk, Magneto or Graviton?

Hmmm so tough!

I see your point (One arbitrary impossible scenerio where Hulk is best pick for another)

But bet you Magneto actually does it.

If using the pure of heart, (social justice) warrior Magneto.

While adamantium does absorb some of the kinetic force used against it, it's not vibranium (far from it).

Hulk would kill anyone inside by trying to smash it apart.

And he would fail to do so, too --- Banner admitted on panel that genuine adamantium is unbreakable even by WWH's and Skaar's standards.

Originally posted by leonidas
if his full range of abilities were taken into account, i think he's more than just a brick. quite a bit more.

Of course he is. And back in the day, his mutations produced plenty of unexpected results:

https://i.imgur.com/gha21B6.png

But it's better to focus on the abilities that are a part of his standard powerset.

Such as the ones you mentioned.

Or his resistance against transmutation.

Interaction with ghosts, always finding his way to the gamma bomb site and so on.

Cdtm got it and he's at least as old as you sneer

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What if the scenario called for someone to lift classic Mjolnir?

Would you choose Hulk, Magneto or Graviton?

Hmmm so tough! has the hulk ever lifted mjolnir using his strength am not because one being worthy some how.

Originally posted by carver9
They considered Doomsday growing bones over his ears as adapting, lol, but discredit Hulk adapting showings that far exceeds that and let's not pretend Doomsday adapted to physical Damage because this was never shown. The only adapting feat Hulk has that I know of is breathing underwater. Is there anything else?

DD adapted to the sword, to the OE, to energy brings, etc. More importantly he was stated to be able to evolve on the fly and implied by the writer (through the mother box) that the only thing that could kill him is entropy.

Originally posted by h1a8
The only adapting feat Hulk has that I know of is breathing underwater. Is there anything else?

DD adapted to the sword, to the OE, to energy brings, etc. More importantly he was stated to be able to evolve on the fly and implied by the writer (through the mother box) that the only thing that could kill him is entropy.

If there is more, does it really matter to you? Tell me your first thought on that question.

He didn't adapt to the sword, he HEALED the damage. Show me him adapting to the Omegas.

It was said Hulk could evolve on the fly.

Is it just wording you're looking for?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cdtm got it and he's at least as old as you sneer

he is...? jawdrop

Yeah, but unlike you, his skull got cracked open a dozen times.

And he still got the point sneer

Originally posted by Diesldude
has the hulk ever lifted mjolnir using his strength am not because one being worthy some how.
No. Strength wouldn't do it at all.


Magneto could lift it with his powers, as could Graviton. Hence my usage.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No. Strength wouldn't do it at all.


Magneto could lift it with his powers, as could Graviton. Hence my usage.



Getting a dumb robot to do that job would work, too.

Or an elevator vin

Or the Enigma Force

crazy site doesn't allow edits now.... the hammer being lifted by only the worthy is one of the VERY few things marvel has actually somehow kept consistent through the years. i actually kind of like it. hulk would need to overcome a skyfather enchantment to lift it, and even at wbh levels i don't see that happening. there is no one below odin level who is not worthy that could left it, so i don't really count it against hulk.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No. Strength wouldn't do it at all.


Magneto could lift it with his powers, as could Graviton. Hence my usage.

Forgot about that.

Now I remember, inanimate objects like Vision could move it too.

So would armored up Tony Stark lift it? Does it know the difference between a remotely controlled shell and inhabited?

Originally posted by leonidas
crazy site doesn't allow edits now.... the hammer being lifted by only the worthy is one of the VERY few things marvel has actually somehow kept consistent through the years. i actually kind of like it. hulk would need to overcome a skyfather enchantment to lift it, and even at wbh levels i don't see that happening. there is no one below odin level who is not worthy that could left it, so i don't really count it against hulk.

Why can't Hulk just adapt to it and lift it hmm

apparently his ability to adapt falls short of skyfather level magic...?

Is Skyfather level versatility where he caps out then?

Or can we go further down the tiering to get his limit?