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Ben is stronger right now than he has been before, in a strict slugfest with this weakest of Superman versions does he stand a chance? no other power to be used by Supes, h2h only.

this is the best kmc has to offer

Byrne Superman doing good against a PC Kryptonian >>>> anything Ben has ever done. And I love him.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Byrne Superman doing good against a PC Kryptonian >>>> anything Ben has ever done. And I love him.

superman>>>>ben>immortal hulk>the entire avengers

Superman.

Originally posted by MrMind
superman>>>>ben>immortal hulk>the entire avengers Of course my love

Byrne Superman loses to Ben.

Ben loses to a disabled Punisher.

Originally posted by carver9
Byrne Superman loses to Ben.

Why do people hate Byrne Superman so much? It's weird

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Why do people hate Byrne Superman so much? It's weird They either have Quan syndrome or Carver-itis.

Originally posted by Badabing
They either have Quan syndrome or Carver-itis.

No version of Thing is beating even the weakest version of Superman. Ever.

Byrne era Superman at his lowest may lose, as a 4 ton Mammoth KO'd him in adventures of Superman, but on average Ben has no chance.

Originally posted by Badabing
They either have Quan syndrome or Carver-itis.

Two failed posters from a bygone era
Their opinion means nothing

Originally posted by lawest9
Ben is stronger right now than he has been before, in a strict slugfest with this weakest of Superman versions does he stand a chance? no other power to be used by Supes, h2h only.

So, what exactly are the limitations? Only under Byrne(or at least while he wrote Superman since a second writer did one of the 3 titles at the time)? Up until (and may or may not include) DOS? Include feats that canon wise take place Pre-DOS but published after?

Originally posted by Delta1938
So, what exactly are the limitations? Only under Byrne(or at least while he wrote Superman since a second writer did one of the 3 titles at the time)? Up until (and may or may not include) DOS? Include feats that canon wise take place Pre-DOS but published after? This is Byrne era Superman before DOS.

Originally posted by Stoic
Byrne era Superman at his lowest may lose, as a 4 ton Mammoth KO'd him in adventures of Superman, but on average Ben has no chance.
Mammoth wasn't a 4 ton character and he had support, even then it was considered an outlier in the very comic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mammoth wasn't a 4 ton character and he had support, even then it was considered an outlier in the very comic.

It really doesn't matter. It was an extremely low showing. Well below his average. At that time, or around that time, Superman in my opinion was about Gladiator's level.

Could be.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mammoth wasn't a 4 ton character and he had support, even then it was considered an outlier in the very comic.

Yea Iirc he's not that weak.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea Iirc he's not that weak.

Mammoth was 60-70 tons under Byrne. I would assume he is around 80-90 now.

Originally posted by Stoic
Byrne era Superman at his lowest may lose, as a 4 ton Mammoth KO'd him in adventures of Superman, but on average Ben has no chance. Lol. What about ben at his lowest too?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Yea Iirc he's not that weak. Nope.

Originally posted by Stoic
Byrne era Superman at his lowest may lose, as a 4 ton Mammoth KO'd him in adventures of Superman, but on average Ben has no chance.

What makes you think Mammoth is that weak? I haven't seen a lot of him, but one of the few he was giving the Titans fits when something (maybe telepathy) had him in a daze and they noted it while fighting him.

Genuinely curious to see what JBL has to say.

Originally posted by Delta1938
What makes you think Mammoth is that weak? I haven't seen a lot of him, but one of the few he was giving the Titans fits when something (maybe telepathy) had him in a daze and they noted it while fighting him.

I may be in error, but at the time of that particular issue, Mammoth was a Class 4.

Originally posted by Stoic
I may be in error, but at the time of that particular issue, Mammoth was a Class 4.

But WHY do you think that?

I believe that there was a citing that had Mammoth struggling to lift 4 tons. I'll check it out because it's been a long time since I read it. Like I said, I could very well be in error.

Originally posted by Stoic
I believe that there was a citing that had Mammoth struggling to lift 4 tons. I'll check it out because it's been a long time since I read it. Like I said, I could very well be in error.

I think I found the example you referred to. Not really the way you remember.

First, at risk of the anti Superman squad who have to lowball, this was one of the examples of Superman's dynamic powers. His identity crisis(for lack of a better term) was actually making him weaker.

He didn't lose to Mammoth alone. He had struck Mammoth knocking him away, but then was attacked by the rest of the Fatal Five. Including a massive electric blast. Then Mammoth comes and attacks him from behind.

As for Mammoth not lifting 4 tons, it was a good deal more than that, because another member used a machine(his power was to turn machines into other machines) to increase the gravity so it was a lot heavier than it was. Even this though seems to be a low showing for Mammoth given what I've seen and heard of him against others(looking at his appearances, he's a frequent opponent of the Titans, and I know he was giving trouble to a team that included at least Cassie and Bart, him fighting Donna was mentioned).

But when Superman overcame his identity crisis, he wrecked them. This is how he treated Mammoth in that fight.

https://bit.ly/3gKX4GL

https://bit.ly/32FeTyx

So, not really an accurate showing unless he's going through the same problem against Ben, and assuming Ben is superior to Mammoth. Would you see him giving trouble to the Teen Titans while in a daze and slowed from it(or something like that) as they noted fighting Mammoth?

Plus, Adam asked what about Ben at his lowest?

Originally posted by Stoic
I believe that there was a citing that had Mammoth struggling to lift 4 tons. I'll check it out because it's been a long time since I read it. Like I said, I could very well be in error.
Mammoth was struggling to lift 65 tons IIRC. Not 4 tons.

67 tons

https://i.postimg.cc/BLmxx6Bv/image.jpg

Superman would still deck him lol

Originally posted by Damborgson
Superman would still deck him lol
He did. In the very same issue. That was treated as a freak chance for Fearsome Five.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He did. In the very same issue. That was treated as a freak chance for Fearsome Five.

I explained what happened you JERKFACE!!!!!