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Battle in Daily Planet.

Arthur has his beard. Oh, and his sea fork.

Superman is in a coma again, courtesy of Doomsday. So he can't intervene.

Is he going to spritz water at Orion like a cat on the counter?

I really don't see Orion hissing at him and running away. He one-shots Aquaman easily.

Orion has ginger hair and freckles; he looks like he should be a sidekick to the Fonz FFS. He truly is the shittiest New God, and they are all pretty shit.

His trident do nything special?

Aquaman with his trident kills him tbh.

Originally posted by carver9
Aquaman with his trident kills him tbh. 2😄😄😄😄😄

Does Orion have his Astro Force?

Orion easily.

Even if you multiplied spider-man's stats by Logan's and then by Sabertooth's and you removed the inherent passiveness of those characters this new being still wouldn't reach even the tip of Superfriends Aquaman's dick, let alone Comic Aquaman's.

Good thread.

Wonder woman performing at Orion level is a serious outlier, and any version of Diana that Arthur has done well against isn't on that level.

TP isn't doing Jack to Orion without first taking out the mother box that protects him from mental attacks. Taking out said MB makes Orion dog of war mode and then Arthur is utterly screwed

The physical differences are massive Orion is only a step off Superman physically, Diana is a tier or two at leas below, Arthur might be able to give her a decent fight but he is also a tier below her. Orion only needs one good hit to end it.

To simplify
A super welterweight (Aquaman) can give a decent fight to a super middle Weight (WW) who might from time to time stand up to a heavyweight for a while. Said Supersiper welterweight isn't doing shit to the heavy weight.

That feeling when people treat a bait thread seriously...

I'm not going to get too in to it, just gonna mention this:

Aquaman has been portrayed as a physical peer (strength and durability wise) of the likes of Diana and J'onn for years now. The last decade or so is just the most consistent it's been.

Orion is still superior imo, as I would consider him the closest physical peer to Superman among his fellow heroes.

The only question is whether Arthur's other abilities can help him out. I'm sure he has another wanky trident that does all sorts of weird shit nowadays. Not sure that would counter the astro-force though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I agree for the most part. I wasn't replying to you specifically, so don't think I was picking holes in anything you said; I was just addressing the thread in general.


I agree with everything you said and overall nothing in this thread offended me. Differing opinions on characters and how fights could go on fictional characters cant really offend me. Overall your good 🤙🏿

I'm only addressing this part of your post because it's all I have issue with. I never said Orion was above Superman, I said he's one step off (as in below him). If Supes was the world heavyweight champ, Orion si someone trying to get to contender level.

Yes Arthur has faired ok vs Diana but his strength and speed showings outside of slugfest simply aren't quite the same.

We often see threads asking if x was 100 what would these people be. I don't reply in these because I think think its that simple. Instead I'd break it down more so for example

If in strength Supes was 100 I'd put Orionbat 95 Diana at 76 and Arthur at say 73

If Supes durability is 100 Orion is 89, Diana is 79 and Arthur is 65.

If Supes Speed is 100 Orion is 85, Diana is 82 and Arthur is 48.

Someone with Orion speed and strength throwing an all out punch that connects shoul KO Diana in no more than two blows if they connect. She has more of a chance of dodging dunno being close in speed but would still not last past 3 blows. Arthur should be able to dodge and shouldn't be capable of taking that level of force.

It's the combined stats that make it own shot victory. If Orion didn't have light speed combat speed it wouldn't, but he does. If Arthur's blunt force durability was a little higher (say 55) he wouldn't but its not.

Orion oneshots him, how's this a discussion. He oneshots the likes of Hal Jordan, what's Aquaman going to do here?

O_o

Seriously

Aquaman's best strength feat post crisis is the bubble Diego city living feat. At best its 500 tonnes maybe 600 at a stretch.

Diana has been 1/3 of pulling the earth, has pushed the moon, has pulled MMH out of a black hole.

No there's no difference at all. Quite frankly that's a very generous difference in strength

Bloody auto correct

Sub Diego not double

Originally posted by -Pr-
That feeling when people treat a bait thread seriously...

Stilt needs something else to live for since he can't have Carter's babies.

Not once did I say moving, I said pulling. They did pull against the earth to keep it in its orbit.

It doesn't matter if Diana was only providing 1/4, 1/5, or 1/1000 of the force in that feat or in the pushing of the moon. The Sub Diego feat was several decimal points below.

New York city is 321 square miles. The area of the surfacebof the earth is 57.3 million square miles not counting the ocean which makes it 162.9 million square miles. Arthur lifted what a meter or twos depth of the surface ? By contrast the earth is 12742km diameter.

So even if Diana was only 1 millionth of the strength in both those feats its still significantly (an order of magnitude or two) above Arthur's best strength showing. She has three (and there are many more) feats massively above his best strength feat showing and your quibbling over me grading him only 3 points lower. Your right, you've made me rethink my rankings in strength, after considering the differences in these feats if she's a 76 in strength he's only a 60.

I guess post Crisis Batman wins against post Crisis Aquaman. Direct fight between both.

https://i.imgur.com/9UxZC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yzDiP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qyMtI.jpg

That gorilla slam

Shared feat or not the for Diana to even factor she is many many times above Arthut.

They "were" lossing it but earth never flew off its orbit. Ergo they did affect the movement.

Dead kings sceptre feat still isn't on the level of much lower feats of Diana like pushing against the force that created a world wide tidal wave.

Gravity has no baring on mass and change of velocity. Never mind that in the shared feat of pushing the moon Diana mentions that she moved the moon once herself (alone).

Out of curiosity what baring does Maxima's psy bolts have in this thread? Arthur doesn't have an energy attack of this nature so it's irrelevant. Or are you trying to infer its some proof of TP working??? Psy bolts aren't a mental attack in that way. They are an attack of turning mental energy into an energy blast. Please by all means show a single instance of Arthur performing such an attack.

Bottom line no strengrh feat of Arthur comes close to the high end ones of Diana, yet you claim they are even. The idea that breaking free from a hold implies your the same strengrh is ludicrous. Self defence courses teach women and young people to do this against larger stronger attackers. Things like positioning, leverage, switching positions to reduce their stability, controlling grips , changing your guard to alter the distance can affect how ffective an opponent hold is, these and other things come into play, yes there is a lot of skill involved in breaking a hold, strengrh doesn't play much of a part at all.

This is exactly why I personally don't (ever) judge strength from HTH fights. I use it in tourneys but not debate forums.

The other thing is this is a forum fight not a comic fight. In a comic Arthur would fair better than in a forum fight. In a forum fight vs Diana both at their best I'd expect it to go heavily in Diana's favor due to combat speed she clearly doesn't use in their on panel fights

As much as I love you guys going off topic (but not really), I'm going to ask y'all to stop and get back on topic.

People like Diana and Maxima have no real bearing on this thread... as dumb as it is.

But that's just it, it's not a telepathic attach. It's forming mental energy into an energy bolt. Maxima has used PSY bolts to blast objects, that don't have any brain to be affected by telepathy.

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj364/galanphotobook/maxima_superman6.jpg

Is that a telepathic attack? Because that is a psy bolt. It's a power Arthur has never demonstrated. There are multiple instances of her psy bolts damaging inanimate objects or taking out machines. These things aren't affected by TP.

Psylock have used her psi blades (a similar type of thing- energy formed from mental energy) to cut things, interrupted electronics.

http://imgur.com/GAYFCgi

Just because a person has TP doesn't make every attack they make telepathic. Maxima also has TK.

X=/=Y

For any other new God there are heaps of feats for a mother box, for Orion there aren't because his MB is literally devoted to keeping his rational mind in control. OT contains his dog of war rage. It doesn't do anything else but maintain his mental state. We're talking about a device capable of SS level matter and energy manip but for Orion its that devoted to maintaining his mental control.

Additionally the use of METRON also doesn't work. When he was a New God to the best of.my knowledge he never had a MB, he made his mobious chair instead which has a lot of functions an MB doesnt

These comparisons just don't work

Your reading comprehension is really poor it seems.

Aquaman has the physical to compete with (though obviously not to match) Orion and his Trident should definitely be able to hurt him. The real question is whether or not he can use it to take him down before Orion takes that trident and shoves it where the sun doesn't shine. My money's on Orion for a solid 7/10 that's hard won every time

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you suggesting Aquaman would win against Superman underwater?

PING PING PING PING PING PING PING

NO I wouldn't because psychic, psionic etc refers to a larger spectrum. It encompasses telepathy but isn't limited to it. Psionic refers to of the mind or the SOUL and can even refer to just the paranormal. Even saying a mental assault doesn't make it telepathy. As there are other forms of mental attacks. Many characters with mental powers have psionic attacks that aren't telepathic in nature.

Arthur has never shown an attack of this nature at all. The closest he has shown was inducing seizures in white Martians. Now THAT might actually be a viable attack for him to use vs Orion as it isnt trying to telepathically control Orion so wouldnt be something his MB has been dedicated to fighting. That attack may give Arthur the occasional win out of 10. That however isn't what your arguing for. Given its an attack that Arthur has used once in almost 4000 appearances its far from a go to move.

A psychic can sense and talk to dead spirits can Arthur? But that's psychic so it must mean TP right?! OH I guess not.

Orion's mother box has literally dedicated all its source energy to maintain Orion's rational self control.



What protects new gods from Tp is a mother box. I never said protects from mental attacks because they can be different than TP, your making an unsupportable linkbetween the two. I've also already explained that Metron has NEVER possessed a mother box. He has the mobius chair.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Mobius_Chair
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Mother_Box

They don't have the same capabilities, an MB has TP, emotion control and healing that the mobius chair doesn't.

The denizens of Apokalips don't have MB's and they cab be tp dominated by Darksied, yet he hasn't been able to do so to New Genisis. DS could TP dominate all of Daxam but has never done so to his enemy state.

In any case since apparently you can't see the very real differences between to two I think I'll leave the topic as PR has asked we stop going off topic

I realise this is going to make me sound a tad pedantic, but...

Aquaman has at least one other psionic attack that isn't just "simple" telepathy: When he devolved King Shark. Then there's all The Clear bullshit, as I don't know how you'd rate that.

Strength wise, his best one right now is the submarine throwing feat, the math of which would give someone an anyeurism. It's a heavy outlier, sure, but it does drag his average up a bit at the same time, I would argue.

High enough to beat Orion in a punch-up? Probably not. But enough to make him at least take a few shots before going down.

If only DC would bite the bullet and make him a proper sorcerer, as opposed to just hinting at it, he'd be more formidable in fights like this as I don't think he can stand up to the Astro Force for very long.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Do you... do you not know what a literary device is?



I haven't watched it yet. Might do tonight actually as I'm not working tomorrow. I didn't even know he was in it tbh. No spoilers please.



Stones. Glass houses.
???

What's with the snide comments out of nowhere?

Originally posted by abhilegend
???

What's with the snide comments out of nowhere?

It isn't snide. It was straightforward. There's a difference.

And it wasn't out of nowhere. You're making an issue out of something that isn't there.

this thread is turning into a classic....

making aquaman a full on magic user would be a great move. he seems to be getting more love the last couple years than he ever has. i think they've officially taken him out of the 'he's the guy that talks to fish' role people used to lump him in. he's a very good character with lots of potential left. not all the 'old school' characters can say that i don't think.

Originally posted by leonidas
this thread is turning into a classic....

making aquaman a full on magic user would be a great move. he seems to be getting more love the last couple years than he ever has. i think they've officially taken him out of the 'he's the guy that talks to fish' role people used to lump him in. he's a very good character with lots of potential left. not all the 'old school' characters can say that i don't think. I dont think DC has ever put him in the role of 'the guy who talks to fish' tbh. They seem trying to make him as cool/badass as possible in the past few years. At least thats what I felt when I read his post-crisis comics

https://media.giphy.com/media/qBvHZHgiUmWBi/giphy.gif



sorry pr.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It isn't snide. It was straightforward. There's a difference.

And it wasn't out of nowhere. You're making an issue out of something that isn't there.
Of course it was snide but whatever. You are doing it for years now.

It suits you TBH.

Tbf, what Arthur did to the White Martians may not even work,unless we can prove New Gods evolved from fish.

Originally posted by -Pr-


Aquaman has at least one other psionic attack that isn't just "simple" telepathy: When he devolved King Shark. Then there's all The Clear bullshit, as I don't know how you'd rate that.

Do you have an issue number for that? I haven't heard about that one, as an Aquaman fan I'd like to read it

Originally posted by -Pr-

If only DC would bite the bullet and make him a proper sorcerer, as opposed to just hinting at it, he'd be more formidable in fights like this as I don't think he can stand up to the Astro Force for very long.

I wouldn't want to see Arthur become a full on mystic. Even though I love magic characters. I was however mad over both the water hand version with the control of water, and some minor magical abilities like dimensional travel, immune to magic. I also like the trident of Neptune. Just enough magic and utility to make him more relevant.

The Astro force shouldn't be an issue in this. I would think grounded means without the astro harness (which he uses to fly). I say this because doesn't he need the harness to access the Astro force

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course it was snide but whatever. You are doing it for years now.

It suits you TBH.

Snide implies indirectness. I was being very direct.

Remember, you started this by talking shit about someone else's reading comprehension. You're not some bullied victim.

Originally posted by beatboks
Do you have an issue number for that? I haven't heard about that one, as an Aquaman fan I'd like to read it



I wouldn't want to see Arthur become a full on mystic. Even though I love magic characters. I was however mad over both the water hand version with the control of water, and some minor magical abilities like dimensional travel, immune to magic. I also like the trident of Neptune. Just enough magic and utility to make him more relevant.

The Astro force shouldn't be an issue in this. I would think grounded means without the astro harness (which he uses to fly). I say this because doesn't he need the harness to access the Astro force

Sure. Though quick correction before I do, it was The Shark, not King Shark. I'm always getting those two mixed up. It was V5 (the 1994 series) issue 31. It's called "Shark Bait".

I feel like there's a middle ground. I don't want him to be Gandalf. I just hate all the gimmicks. Just make them exotic powers he can bust out every so often.

they should have given aquaman garth's powers.... his power set is very cool and really varied. garth should be able to beat arthur most of the time imo.

Originally posted by beatboks

I say this because doesn't he need the harness to access the Astro force He creates the harness out of astro force like Surfer with his board and power cosmic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your reading comprehension is really poor it seems.

Irony. You couldn’t even follow pictures and somehow came to the conclusion without the comic helping you to do so that Orion had oneshotted Hal. I’ll take reading comprehension issues over whatever that issue is... anyday.

yeah that's be cool too. what i meant was garth has powers i wish aquaman had FIRST. his telepathy never really made much sense to me. i think the nature of it could be explored more fully for sure, not sure i want him being prof x though. a cool king's weapon would be nice though.

Gotta love how Batman is a common opponent for both lol.

And Deathstroke....

I could add Hercules there too but it's a bit more complicated.

DS at least has superhuman stats on paper....

No I didn't. I said it protects him from telepathy. There is a vast range of mental attacks that aren't telepathy. To be more specific it protects him from mental control or influence.

https://i.imgur.com/I4TUWdc.jpg

You even posted an image of what I said in your last post. You need to stop tying menral/psionic/telepathy together. They simply are not the same thing.

I couldn't see anything on your link, but I went back to page 1 and your right. That was a miss wording on my part. I thought I had only said TP won't affect him. Apologies.

MMH didn't have any uncertainty. He has been shown unable to TP read Orion before that so he knew his MB protected him fromhis TP. It was also shown once that when his dog of war anger was surging MMH couldn't help because the MB was already doing it. I couldn't be bothered trying to find those scans as I don't care that much. There are other instances too. For example an Arion story where Arion controlled some young new gods with TP who didn't have MBs but couldn't affect Orion or Lightray who did.

I honestly don't know what issue that's from, I just went to his respect thread on reddit expecting to find one of the feats I knew of, and that was the one on it.

The swamp thing and Kordax incident I would class under mental influence. I would also class his battle on the astral plane with that dimensional entity influence. The white Martian seizures I wouldn't (as I've already said) and I haven't seen the devolving shark feat PR referenced. Depending on the context behind that thisebtwo are a viable mental attack while Arthur's standard use of TP isn't IMHO.

Originally posted by Juntai
He creates the harness out of astro force like Surfer with his board and power cosmic.

Thanks, my bad.
For some reason I thought the harness was a new God piece of technology that was made to facilitate control of the Astro force.

Don't ask me why, I haven't a clue.

I just remembered another instance of Orion's mother box and TP, that I've seen the scans of in a debate (haven't read the issue myself but have seen 5 pages). Hector Hammond managed to put his consciousness in Superman's subconscious. Orion worked it out. After WW used her lasso to confirm by controlling Hammond inside Supes Orion removed him with the MB and then used it to create safe guards and fortifications against it recurring in Superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Snide implies indirectness. I was being very direct.

Remember, you started this by talking shit about someone else's reading comprehension. You're not some bullied victim.

Because he is quite consistently misrepresenting scans (Brainiac's TK attack became TP attack somehow). I simply said his reading comprehension seems very bad.

Bullied victim? You couldn't bully carver after a decade and a half of outright trolling.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Irony. You couldn’t even follow pictures and somehow came to the conclusion without the comic helping you to do so that Orion had oneshotted Hal. I’ll take reading comprehension issues over whatever that issue is... anyday.
Heh, Orion had Hal in a chokehold after one attack, maybe on comicvine they teach you otherwise but that's pretty much oneshot here.

I mean, using Brainiac's TK attack which trashes the entire room as a TP attack? Dude, you've to be blind not to see that.

Causing an effect on the body of someone that the mind of said person can do is influencing the mind. For the same reason trapping someone within the mind is also influencing. Swamp thing moves by walking and like anyone he can control himself to stop. A person can go deep inside their mind and day dream or contemplate. These are things their own mind can make them do so when Telepath causes this its simply influencingnthose factors. A siezure isn't something your mind has hand control over, in fact they occur in those that get them because they cant control that type of thing. Similarly we can't control our own evolvment (or devolve as in the case of the Shark feat PR mentioned).

When Psylocke uses her psi blade to short circuit a person's mind with an energy spike its not influencing that person's mind, its more like electrocution.

Honestly I don't know why this has to be explained. It seems to me to be pretty self explanatory.

Since its now been cleared up for me that the Astro force is something that might be in play in a grounded Orion (which I didn't beleive to be the case) I'd like to hear how you think Arthur can withstand an astro force attack. Orion's peak AF attack destroyed a solar system from the shock wave generated.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, Orion had Hal in a chokehold after one attack, maybe on comicvine they teach you otherwise but that's pretty much oneshot here.

I mean, using Brainiac's TK attack which trashes the entire room as a TP attack? Dude, you've to be blind not to see that.

Lmao the inability to just admit your wrong is the reason your just waste of time.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he is quite consistently misrepresenting scans (Brainiac's TK attack became TP attack somehow). I simply said his reading comprehension seems very bad.

Bullied victim? You couldn't bully carver after a decade and a half of outright trolling.

And I accused you of being a hypocrite for doing the exact same thing. Which you regularly do.

Giving people shit for their dumb posts isn't the same as bullying.

Originally posted by -Pr-
And I accused you of being a hypocrite for doing the exact same thing. Which you regularly do.

Giving people shit for their dumb posts isn't the same as bullying.
I guess it takes one to know one but you already knew that.

Good then, guess I never bullied you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I guess it takes one to know one but you already knew that.

Good then, guess I never bullied you.

lol, ok, sure. Keep thinking that.

Though, I realise all this is only to deflect away from the dumb post you made, so you know what? You do you. Even have the last word if it's that important to you. Go on. I won't even reply. I promise.

Aquaman is a Nazi sympathizer. That fishy scumbag loses. sneer

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, ok, sure. Keep thinking that.

Though, I realise all this is only to deflect away from the dumb post you made, so you know what? You do you. Even have the last word if it's that important to you. Go on. I won't even reply. I promise.
Did you say that to your prom date after he ****ed the cheerleader?

I meant to post this earlier, sorry guys. For anyone that doesn't want to hunt down the comic, here's the Shark feat:

https://i.ibb.co/tbYBC5Y/RCO020-1469004618.jpg https://i.ibb.co/XyDcbnk/RCO021-1469004618.jpg https://i.ibb.co/mX6wdLp/RCO022-1469004618.jpg

Again, from Aquaman (v5/1994) #31

Originally posted by -Pr-
I meant to post this earlier, sorry guys. For anyone that doesn't want to hunt down the comic, here's the Shark feat:

https://i.ibb.co/tbYBC5Y/RCO020-1469004618.jpg https://i.ibb.co/XyDcbnk/RCO021-1469004618.jpg https://i.ibb.co/mX6wdLp/RCO022-1469004618.jpg

Again, from Aquaman (v5/1994) #31

What in the world.

Originally posted by carver9
What in the world.