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No bfr, who wins?

Hulk.

Is Mangog eating him considered bfr since he won't be on the battlefield any longer?

Originally posted by carver9
Is Mangog eating him considered bfr since he won't be on the battlefield any longer? ????????

Originally posted by deft
Hulk. No answer eh?

Is the heat vision allowed? Superman would wins by his heat vision and his speed.

Originally posted by deft
Is the heat vision allowed? Superman would wins by his heat vision and his speed. Everything is allowed in this one.

Originally posted by deft
Is the heat vision allowed? Superman would wins by his heat vision and his speed.

You do realize that heat isn't Mangog's weakeness right? This is exactly why people shouldn't use one showing to make a case.

Im sure our equipment can't calculate a god blast either.

Also, there are people below Mangog in power that withstood heat vision. Squall need to stop. Hell, the showing that he is talking about, the character Superman used his heat vision on endured it. He submitted but it didn't kill him.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Im sure our equipment can't calculate a god blast either. Thats assuming God blast is 100% heat energy.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, there are people below Mangog in power that withstood heat vision. Squall need to stop. Hell, the showing that he is talking about, the character Superman used his heat vision on endured it. He submitted but it didn't kill him.

The hv (like punching power) varies from scene to scene in comics. Remember that you judge an attack by its highest showing?
Also Superman can vary the intensity of his hv.

Finally, you are assuming things without proof. Just because Mangog is superior in some areas than those who withstood the hv doesn't mean hes superior at taking heat than them.

Originally posted by Stoic
And my point was that the sun showing for Mangog was a low showing.

Wouldn't call it a low showing. I would just say that heat vision ain't doing a thing to Mangog.

Originally posted by Stoic
And my point was that the sun showing for Mangog was a low showing.

Why?
Why couldn't it just be an average showing?
What heat did Mangog take that is superior to the core of the sun?

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Im sure our equipment can't calculate a god blast either.

it has equivalent force to superman's fart

Originally posted by h1a8
Why?
Why couldn't it just be an average showing?
What heat did Mangog take that is superior to the core of the sun?

In that case we could just assume that Firelord or the Human Torch would beat Mangog right? Where was it ever stated that Mangog was weak to heat? The sun showing was a low showing for him.

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case we could just assume that Firelord or the Human Torch would beat Mangog right? Where was it ever stated that Mangog was weak to heat? The sun showing was a low showing for him.

They are really trying to hard with this sun and heat crap.

Are gas station explosions quantifiable? How about John Deer Lawnmowers? Lemme guess, that lawnmower was made with DC tech therefore its superior?

I love how low showings apply to every single character except for Superman, and then its nothing but his highs every single time. Everything else is consistently brushed aside or ignored.

It was a low showing for Mangog and yall know it was.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
They are really trying to hard with this sun and heat crap.

Are gas station explosions quantifiable? How about John Deer Lawnmowers? Lemme guess, that lawnmower was made with DC tech therefore its superior?

I love how low showings apply to every single character except for Superman, and then its nothing but his highs every single time. Everything else is consistently brushed aside or ignored.

It was a low showing for Mangog and yall know it was.

That's why I stated that making a case based on a low showing is pretty much pointless. It's like the Thing's apparent KO over the Immortal Hulk somehow outweighs the fact that the Challenger/Grandmaster Prime failed to KO this same Hulk after crushing his face with a punch. This same Hulk laughed that punch off.

Is it a low showing considering they had to hog tie him in unbreakable chains and sacrifice mjolnir just to bfr him in the sun?

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case we could just assume that Firelord or the Human Torch would beat Mangog right? Where was it ever stated that Mangog was weak to heat? The sun showing was a low showing for him.
He has no feats against heat temperatures above the core of the sun.
Also suns temperature just doesn't melt Mangog instantly. It might have took a while.

Lastly, your Firelord and Torch examples are faulty.
If those guys can reach temperatures far hotter than the core of the sun ANd for as long as it took it to destroy Mangog then yes they can beat him.

But the problem is that you have to prove they can reach those temperatures and also prove they maintain them before Mangog stomps the living hell out of them. The last bit is pretty hard to prove.

And even if it is a low showing and Mangog can survive million degree temperatures for an indefinite amount of time then that does not mean that he can withstand temperatures magnitudes above that.

This fight would never boil down to something as retarded as heat vision. It would be more about hope versus hate or something.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Is it a low showing considering they had to hog tie him in unbreakable chains and sacrifice mjolnir just to bfr him in the sun?
Plus the entirety of Asgard's arsenal was useless against him.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Is it a low showing considering they had to hog tie him in unbreakable chains and sacrifice mjolnir just to bfr him in the sun?

Plot device. So yes it was.

Originally posted by meep-meep
This fight would never boil down to something as retarded as heat vision. It would be more about hope versus hate or something.

I know. Pretty ridiculous idea to continue clinging to. I wonder how many pages it will take for this retarded notion to wear off? I mean how many comics portray Superman floating there eye beaming his opponent?

Originally posted by h1a8
He has no feats against heat temperatures above the core of the sun.
Also suns temperature just doesn't melt Mangog instantly. It might have took a while.

Lastly, your Firelord and Torch examples are faulty.
If those guys can reach temperatures far hotter than the core of the sun ANd for as long as it took it to destroy Mangog then yes they can beat him.

But the problem is that you have to prove they can reach those temperatures and also prove they maintain them before Mangog stomps the living hell out of them. The last bit is pretty hard to prove.

See? Tunnel vision.

Originally posted by Stoic
Plot device. So yes it was.



I know. Pretty ridiculous idea to continue clinging to. I wonder how many pages it will take for this retarded notion to wear off? I mean how many comics portray Superman floating there eye beaming his opponent?



See? Tunnel vision.

How does saying "Tunnel Vision" prove anything? That is a terrible way to debate.

Originally posted by Stoic
Plot device. So yes it was.





No it's not and that's not a example of a plot device. You're reaching

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No it's not and that's not a example of a plot device. You're reaching

Mangog is several times tougher than Thor used to be. It was a low showing. Consider that Thor was diving into the sun for prolonged periods of time and the worst that he felt was that his eyes were burning. Again, it was a low showing, and the sun was the plot device. Think before posting.

How do you know it was prolonged periods of time?

because he fought inside of one in the very same series under the same writer.

And because he has been shown hanging out in it like stoic said, chatting and thinking about it.

He has thrown Mjolnkr into and around the sun a few times.

Yall just love lowballing anything Asgard related and we all know it. Its ok, but don't pretend like thats not what yall are doing.

Im probably one of the few Marvel fans who knows that Superman is at least a couple tiers above Thor. Thats set in stone for me, and it honestly should be for everyone because its plain as day to see so I dont understand why people even resort to lowballing Thor or Asgard stuff in these matches because Clark has the feats to win 80% of the time if we just use averages like we are SUPPOSED to do.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
because he fought inside of one in the very same series under the same writer.

And because he has been shown hanging out in it like stoic said, chatting and thinking about it.

He has thrown Mjolnkr into and around the sun a few times.

Yall just love lowballing anything Asgard related and we all know it. Its ok, but don't pretend like thats not what yall are doing.

Im probably one of the few Marvel fans who knows that Superman is at least a couple tiers above Thor. Thats set in stone for me, and it honestly should be for everyone because its plain as day to see so I dont understand why people even resort to lowballing Thor or Asgard stuff in these matches because Clark has the feats to win 80% of the time if we just use averages like we are SUPPOSED to do.

Not my question. But thanks.

Originally posted by Stoic
Mangog is several times tougher than Thor used to be. It was a low showing. Consider that Thor was diving into the sun for prolonged periods of time and the worst that he felt was that his eyes were burning. Again, it was a low showing, and the sun was the plot device. Think before posting.

Was Thor ever shown to be in the core of the sun for a long period? Like I said it's not a low showing considering the build up. Plus writers intent that the only way to defeat him was to bfr and tie him up and sacrifice a plot weapon. Plus you're misinterpreting the scene with Thor. Sure he was in the sun searching for mjolnir but it's obvious he's in pain. It's not like he could've stayed there forever

Originally posted by Stoic
Mangog is several times tougher than Thor used to be. It was a low showing. Consider that Thor was diving into the sun for prolonged periods of time and the worst that he felt was that his eyes were burning. Again, it was a low showing, and the sun was the plot device. Think before posting. Mangog doesn't have to necessarily be tougher when it comes withstanding heat. He can be tougher when it comes to physical strikes and what not.

Like i said. Thor burning in the sun doesn't mean that Mangog coukd survive forever in the sun.

He most likely won't die right away though.

I could be mistaken but Mangog and the whole Sun thing was because in the sun there is no hate so he is weakened. he is still there but without the hate to feed his rage he is just binge watching tv shows and stuff.
well until AllBlack the necrosword is thrown into the sun in the future.

No, it's because Sun is really hot

Originally posted by h1a8
How does saying "Tunnel Vision" prove anything? That is a terrible way to debate.

When in character does Superman float there and use HV for the entire fight? You're arguing power set. Look in the mirror.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Was Thor ever shown to be in the core of the sun for a long period? Like I said it's not a low showing considering the build up. Plus writers intent that the only way to defeat him was to bfr and tie him up and sacrifice a plot weapon. Plus you're misinterpreting the scene with Thor. Sure he was in the sun searching for mjolnir but it's obvious he's in pain. It's not like he could've stayed there forever

Several people aren't convinced that the core is actually the hottest part of the sun. Some believe that the corona is. We'd need the writers opinion. The point is that Thor repeatedly dove into the sun looking for Mjolnir. Other writers had classic Thor basking in the sun with no issue, which again goes to show you that you can't make a solid case based on one showing. Mangog is, and has always been far tougher than Thor.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How do you know it was prolonged periods of time?

The Mjolnir replicas took time to be destroyed by the heat. The writer was an ass. Imagine Thor being able to survive, while Mangog and Mjolnir could not. Using that story to solidify a case against Mjolnir, or Mangog is faulty logic unless we dismiss their previous showings. If that be the case, let's go back to Orion in the box, Hulk and the anaconda, Superman and the tractor, Wonder Woman and the bullets, etc.

Yes, but my question was, how do you know Thor was in there for prolonged periods of time? How do you know it took time for the hammerst o be destroyed?

Because they were meant to last long enough to help him find Mjolnir, and get him out of the sun. Was there a citation of an actual stopwatch logging the time that he was in the sun? Of course not, but he continued his search and went through several of those replicas. There were quite a few of them, so we know that he could take the heat for a while.

Do you really want to continue onward with this one showing? So many characters have poor showings that it is easy to grab one in any given debate and pretend as if they didn't have better showings under different writers. Let's see how many pages it takes to change direction. This could become comical.

Originally posted by Stoic
Because they were meant to last long enough to help him find Mjolnir, and get him out of the sun. Was there a citation of an actual stopwatch logging the time that he was in the sun? Of course not, but he continued his search and went through several of those replicas. There were quite a few of them, so we know that he could take the heat for a while.

Do you really want to continue onward with this one showing? So many characters have poor showings that it is easy to grab one in any given debate and pretend as if they didn't have better showings under different writers. Let's see how many pages it takes to change direction. This could become comical.

He only went in with one hammer at a time. Then had to leave after it melted.

What is comical, is your initial point which I asked about:

Originally posted by Stoic
Consider that Thor was diving into the sun for prolonged periods of time and the worst that he felt was that his eyes were burning.

If there is a lake filled with strong acid, and I dived in every day until my clothes melted and my eyes began to burn.....I mean, sure, that's a great feat for my HF/medical care if I came back the next day to do the same thing, but it says nothing about how long I was in there for.

I agree, it IS a low showing. NEVER said it wasn't (this goes to you too, Shadowfyre, even though you jumped in willy-nilly lmao). I am merely addressing the 'logic' being used, that staying in there until his hammer (singular) melts and his eyes roast means that he's there for a prolonged period of time.

When it could have been a minute, 10 seconds, 5 seconds, hell, even 2 seconds or so.

We know, for example, that his new hammers are nothing like Mjolnir. Nowhere near durable - he kept breaking them. So we don't really know how durable they are, certainly not against heat.

A reminder of the scene:

https://i.postimg.cc/mDrcGh43/RCO004-1553091544.jpg

All this talk about Mangog and the sun, didn't he tank a sun-powered weapon or somesuch, prior to this, under the same writer?

Originally posted by Stoic
When in character does Superman float there and use HV for the entire fight? You're arguing power set. Look in the mirror.



Several people aren't convinced that the core is actually the hottest part of the sun. Some believe that the corona is. We'd need the writers opinion. The point is that Thor repeatedly dove into the sun looking for Mjolnir. Other writers had classic Thor basking in the sun with no issue, which again goes to show you that you can't make a solid case based on one showing. Mangog is, and has always been far tougher than Thor.

I didn't once argue that Superman sits there and hv him. I didn't argue ANY strategy for either character.

Superman will reserve the right to sit there and hv Mangog IF he finds out that is the only way (he exhausted other means).

Superman will first attempt to ko Mangog with punches, etc. Maybe think about bfr or hv after that.

The core is hotter than the corona. The corona is about 2 million degrees. The core is about 15-27 million degrees. (up to 10x hotter). The surface is cold as hell though (6 thousand degrees).
Thor most likely flew through the corona (plunging into the surface) faster than it can affect him (like swinging your hand quickly through a flame.

Thor didn't reach the core. He was subjected to temperatures probably somewhere between 6k and 2 million degrees.

Classic characters kinda don't count anymore since current characters contradict them in several ways. Classic days are considered to be like pre-crisis days (writers had and used no actual science understanding and had characters do ridiculous inconsistent things).

Originally posted by Stoic
Because they were meant to last long enough to help him find Mjolnir, and get him out of the sun. Was there a citation of an actual stopwatch logging the time that he was in the sun? Of course not, but he continued his search and went through several of those replicas. There were quite a few of them, so we know that he could take the heat for a while.

Do you really want to continue onward with this one showing? So many characters have poor showings that it is easy to grab one in any given debate and pretend as if they didn't have better showings under different writers. Let's see how many pages it takes to change direction. This could become comical.

Thor was subjected to 6k and higher (unknown) for an unknown amount of time. Thor didn't reach the core.

Mangog was subjected to the core (15-27 million degrees) for a long ass time.
This is a huge difference. There is no inconsistency.

Thats even faulty assuming that toughness against blunt attacks scale equally to toughness against heat.

I also wanted to add "a sickly badger and an anorexic ant into that list but it wont let me edit my post.

My mom says I'm the handsomest boy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My mom says I'm the handsomest boy.

you really are

Mom?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
One writer doesn't necessarily dictate the status of a character across the Marvel world. Plus as a statement it's not really feasible against actual feats. If a character for whichever reason calls Spider-Man the strongest (say a relative etc as they look up to him) would you take that as literally as you are this?

When people are narrating in that sense he isn't gonna go "My beloved son, besides from the Hulk, Dracula with Dual Adamantium Katanas and Thanos you are the strongest being in all the 10 realms". That wouldn't be something that someone who appreciates a person would say. I had asked a question knowing how someone would have talked about it for weeks on end if this was said about the hulk.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mom?

it's dad

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't once argue that Superman sits there and hv him. I didn't argue ANY strategy for either character.

Superman will reserve the right to sit there and hv Mangog IF he finds out that is the only way (he exhausted other means).

Superman will first attempt to ko Mangog with punches, etc. Maybe think about bfr or hv after that.

The core is hotter than the corona. The corona is about 2 million degrees. The core is about 15-27 million degrees. (up to 10x hotter). The surface is cold as hell though (6 thousand degrees).
Thor most likely flew through the corona (plunging into the surface) faster than it can affect him (like swinging your hand quickly through a flame.

Thor didn't reach the core. He was subjected to temperatures probably somewhere between 6k and 2 million degrees.

Classic characters kinda don't count anymore since current characters contradict them in several ways. Classic days are considered to be like pre-crisis days (writers had and used no actual science understanding and had characters do ridiculous inconsistent things).

Could've swore you were hellbent on the corona being hotter a couple of weeks back as I stated that it was the core that was hotter? You're an ass. Deal with it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor was subjected to 6k and higher (unknown) for an unknown amount of time. Thor didn't reach the core.

Mangog was subjected to the core (15-27 million degrees) for a long ass time.
This is a huge difference. There is no inconsistency.

Thats even faulty assuming that toughness against blunt attacks scale equally to toughness against heat.

You can tell all of that based on that one scan huh?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

If there is a lake filled with strong acid, and I dived in every day until my clothes melted and my eyes began to burn.....I mean, sure, that's a great feat for my HF/medical care if I came back the next day to do the same thing, but it says nothing about how long I was in there for.

I agree, it IS a low showing. NEVER said it wasn't (this goes to you too, Shadowfyre, even though you jumped in willy-nilly lmao). I am merely addressing the 'logic' being used, that staying in there until his hammer (singular) melts and his eyes roast means that he's there for a prolonged period of time.

When it could have been a minute, 10 seconds, 5 seconds, hell, even 2 seconds or so.

We know, for example, that his new hammers are nothing like Mjolnir. Nowhere near durable - he kept breaking them. So we don't really know how durable they are, certainly not against heat.

A reminder of the scene:

https://i.postimg.cc/mDrcGh43/RCO004-1553091544.jpg
Even if not for a prolonged period of time, 10 secs or less really sounds silly. The sun is humongous and he's literally looking for pieces of Mjolnir in a place whose volume is over a million times greater than earth's. It'd be basically useless to travel a few secs and then out.

He could also have been calling in hammers to him while still inside as soon as the one he is using became useless. We dont know for sure, but i'd lean more to prolonged than the abbreviated version u are proposing.
In one of the scans, we see some of the other hammers havent even completely melted from previous attempts, while he's back at it again searching. I'm sure a majority of them had decent staying power, enough for him to stay inside for a prolonged period of time.
https://i.ibb.co/0262nPz/RCO003-1553091544.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/z5MHmVW/RCO004-1553091544.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/Yh46TRh/RCO005-1553091544.jpg

The hammers were no Mjolnir, but Mjolnir getting destroyed really is a low showing based on its history with stars. Same goes for Thor. They have a long history of star swimming.
http://i.imgur.com/zvgzODum.jpg http://i.imgur.com/rBMBFJUm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/SK90tGOm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AOfjSkDm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wn2tbnVm.jpg

Ok...not my point though, but thanks

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
One writer doesn't necessarily dictate the status of a character across the Marvel world. Plus as a statement it's not really feasible against actual feats. If a character for whichever reason calls Spider-Man the strongest (say a relative etc as they look up to him) would you take that as literally as you are this?

When people are narrating in that sense he isn't gonna go "My beloved son, besides from the Hulk, Dracula with Dual Adamantium Katanas and Thanos you are the strongest being in all the 10 realms". That wouldn't be something that someone who appreciates a person would say. I mean it is Odin saying Thor is stronger than him though, and Thor is dying trying to dive into the sun. Seems a bit weird.
And even if the mightiest in 10 realms is hyperbole, the other part is still an admission seemingly.

Originally posted by Stoic
You can tell all of that based on that one scan huh?

Nope. On multiple scans.


Originally posted by Stoic
Could've swore you were hellbent on the corona being hotter a couple of weeks back as I stated that it was the core that was hotter? You're an ass. Deal with it. Has nothing to do with your mistake (thinking I argued a strategy). Nice deflection.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Even if not for a prolonged period of time, 10 secs or less really sounds silly. The sun is humongous and he's literally looking for pieces of Mjolnir in a place whose volume is over a million times greater than earth's. It'd be basically useless to travel a few secs and then out.

He could also have been calling in hammers to him while still inside as soon as the one he is using became useless. We dont know for sure, but i'd lean more to prolonged than the abbreviated version u are proposing.
In one of the scans, we see some of the other hammers havent even completely melted from previous attempts, while he's back at it again searching. I'm sure a majority of them had decent staying power, enough for him to stay inside for a prolonged period of time.
https://i.ibb.co/0262nPz/RCO003-1553091544.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/z5MHmVW/RCO004-1553091544.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/Yh46TRh/RCO005-1553091544.jpg

The hammers were no Mjolnir, but Mjolnir getting destroyed really is a low showing based on its history with stars. Same goes for Thor. They have a long history of star swimming.
http://i.imgur.com/zvgzODum.jpg http://i.imgur.com/rBMBFJUm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/SK90tGOm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AOfjSkDm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wn2tbnVm.jpg

👍

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok...not my point though, but thanks
Just pointing out the 10 secs and below u mentioned. That idea really should be thrown out.

I guess it's up to how one perceives "prolonged periods of time".

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Just pointing out the 10 secs and below u mentioned. That idea really should be thrown out.

I guess it's up to how one perceives "prolonged periods of time".

Pretty much. Great posts Celey.

Oh, and by the way, as tough as Thor is, do you see him being able to place Ultimate Mjolnir into his mouth, fire off a Godblast and spit that Godblast back out without suffering any damage? As you know, Mangog was able to do that. Would you say that Mangog was always portrayed as being tougher than Thor?

Originally posted by Stoic
Pretty much. Great posts Celey.

Oh, and by the way, as tough as Thor is, do you see him being able to place Ultimate Mjolnir into his mouth, fire off a Godblast and spit that Godblast back out without suffering any damage? As you know, Mangog was able to do that. Would you say that Mangog was always portrayed as being tougher than Thor?

Wasn't Mango able to manipulate matter though

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Wasn't Mango able to manipulate matter though

He didn't appear to use anything other than brute strength and durability during that fight with War Thor. Are you saying that he used matter manipulation when he swallows the Godblast? If so, to what end? Sorry I'm not following your line of reasoning here.

Originally posted by Stoic
Pretty much. Great posts Celey.

Oh, and by the way, as tough as Thor is, do you see him being able to place Ultimate Mjolnir into his mouth, fire off a Godblast and spit that Godblast back out without suffering any damage? As you know, Mangog was able to do that. Would you say that Mangog was always portrayed as being tougher than Thor?
I dont recall a gb. War tor said it was powered by the rage of a dead universe or some such.. I do feel it was supposed to mirror thor's antiforce attack in the jurgens run. *shrugs*

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Just pointing out the 10 secs and below u mentioned. That idea really should be thrown out.

I guess it's up to how one perceives "prolonged periods of time".

Pretty much. Stoic was all 'he was in there for a prolonged period and all he got was roasted eyes', which was my point that I was challenging.

But as we all agreed, there's no time frame givenso saying prolonged is a bit of a reach.

Originally posted by Stoic
Pretty much. Great posts Celey.

Oh, and by the way, as tough as Thor is, do you see him being able to place Ultimate Mjolnir into his mouth, fire off a Godblast and spit that Godblast back out without suffering any damage? As you know, Mangog was able to do that. Would you say that Mangog was always portrayed as being tougher than Thor?

mangog has certainly always been portrayed as being well above thor. he's pretty consistently been portrayed as a threat to odin himself.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pretty much. Stoic was all 'he was in there for a prolonged period and all he got was roasted eyes', which was my point that I was challenging.

But as we all agreed, there's no time frame givenso saying prolonged is a bit of a reach.

The sun is pretty large right? Do you think Thor dove in for a second, and flew right back out if he was searching for fragments of Mjolnir? The scan on this page shows him travelling in the sun, with dialog. We don't know how long he submerged himself but he didn't fly in and immediately fly out.

I never said it was immediate, even though I would have just as much to support that as 'prolonged'.

I can do the exact same sequence as Thor's, except with a person diving into acid.

That doesn't mean anything.

Originally posted by leonidas
mangog has certainly always been portrayed as being well above thor. he's pretty consistently been portrayed as a threat to odin himself.

Exactly, which was the point that I was making.