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Honestly, it feels like people don't care. And if you say anything, it's "Hamas this and that". Doesn't excuse innocent people being forced them their homes for the crime of simply being Palestinian. It doesn't excuse children being beaten in the streets. It doesn't excuse gas/smoke grenades being used on religious gatherings.

But no, Israel are the good guys. Totally.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, it feels like people don't care. And if you say anything, it's "Hamas this and that". Doesn't excuse innocent people being forced them their homes for the crime of simply being Palestinian. It doesn't excuse children being beaten in the streets. It doesn't excuse gas/smoke grenades being used on religious gatherings.

But no, Israel are the good guys. Totally. My thoughts exactly, it's almost like groups, tribes, nations learn nothing from their own historical mistreatment and like abused children become programmed to pass mistreatment on.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
My thoughts exactly, it's almost like groups, tribes, nations learn nothing from their own historical mistreatment and like abused children become programmed to pass mistreatment on.

Yeah. They're already drawing comparisons with you know who, and the irony seems to be a bit lost on far too many people.

I feel like if this continues though, a country with a far bigger stick than the one Palestine has is going to get involved, and that can't or won't end well for Israel or anyone else in the region.

Well I know in the U.S.A. we are almost pre-programmed to think of Israel as a default good guy instead of a complex nation with a complex history. All I remember being taught is that Israel was a small nation built for the Jews to have a home after the Holocaust and that they have had to fight for survival surrounded by wolves.

And that was about it. Schools today might do a better job of teaching that history but I know conservatives still very much want to cling to their obsession that Israel is a poor little country that's just defending it's borders.

And I can say for certain this has everything to do with religion and the conservative Christians of the country.

Anyone criticizing Israel is clearly an anti-semite, obviously driven to their madness by george soros, and his evil conspiracy to take over the world with fake news and jewish space lasers. shams on you!

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, it feels like people don't care. And if you say anything, it's "Hamas this and that". Doesn't excuse innocent people being forced them their homes for the crime of simply being Palestinian. It doesn't excuse children being beaten in the streets. It doesn't excuse gas/smoke grenades being used on religious gatherings.

But no, Israel are the good guys. Totally.


Israel has a right to exist, but they're also the the bully here once again.

I don't think anyone is saying they don't. They just can't use that as an excuse to be giant, raging assholes.

Iran does. But it's kinda the go-to thing/excuse when Israel bulldozes homes and bombs areas that end up killing noncombatants.


The "Two-State solution" really needs to be implemented, where there's clear borders accepted by all and if one side crosses the other, then they're the aggressor. But it won't happen.

Originally posted by Robtard
Iran does. But it's kinda the go-to thing/excuse when Israel bulldozes homes and bombs areas that end up killing noncombatants.


The "Two-State solution" really needs to be implemented, where there's clear borders accepted by all and if one side crosses the other, then they're the aggressor. But it won't happen.

Sure, but I don't see many people pretending Iran are the good guys.

See, if you suggest that, you're somehow an anti-semite, or something.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sure, but I don't see many people pretending Iran are the good guys.

See, if you suggest that, you're somehow an anti-semite, or something. This is spot on, and further to that, whilst Israel has a right to exist. Like Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, it was created for a UK/US advantage.

Just make the entire middle east an irradiated wasteland and be done with it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, it feels like people don't care. And if you say anything, it's "Hamas this and that". Doesn't excuse innocent people being forced them their homes for the crime of simply being Palestinian. It doesn't excuse children being beaten in the streets. It doesn't excuse gas/smoke grenades being used on religious gatherings.

But no, Israel are the good guys. Totally.


I think a lot more people are seeing it as it is and speaking out against Israel now than like 10 years ago.

Probably mostly due to social media. Palestinians can just film shit Thats happening and upload it.

Its mostly media bias and politicians and celebrities who refuse to say anything anti-Israel which gives the impression that no one gives a shit.

Hopefully one day the whole world stands up and says enough is enough, just like they did with the South African apartheid.

Originally posted by Robtard
The "Two-State solution" really needs to be implemented, where there's clear borders accepted by all and if one side crosses the other, then they're the aggressor. But it won't happen.

Two states at this point is BS. Theres nothing left for the Palestinians, and whatever state they get would no doubt still be under Israeli control.

Has to be a one state democracy with both Palestinians and Jews all getting equal votes, rights and opportunities. Sure still wouldnt be perfect for Palestinians just like its not always been perfect for African Americans in the US, but its the only reasonable solution.

Back to celebrities, Gal Gadot calling for peace on both sides (shes come a long way since her pre-Wonder Woman days). And Mark Ruffalo outright condemning Israel.

Natalie Portman (also Israeli) has also become more and more critical over Israel the past several years.

Just mentioning because the celebrities wiling to speak up for the Palestinians are a rare breed.

yeah, but even if it's just done for good PR, at least they bring something good to the table

^ Theres very few of them*

an alterior motive there*

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
This is spot on, and further to that, whilst Israel has a right to exist. Like Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, it was created for a UK/US advantage.

What isn't?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I think a lot more people are seeing it as it is and speaking out against Israel now than like 10 years ago.

Probably mostly due to social media. Palestinians can just film shit Thats happening and upload it.

Its mostly media bias and politicians and celebrities who refuse to say anything anti-Israel which gives the impression that no one gives a shit.

Hopefully one day the whole world stands up and says enough is enough, just like they did with the South African apartheid.

I was really surprised to see people coming out against it, tbh. And yeah, social media is definitely part of it. Nice to see it being used for something good.

People just have to be careful. If anything is done to stop Israel doing what they're doing, that it doesn't leave them vulnerable to other countries around them that might seek to capitalize on the situation.

Originally posted by -Pr-
What isn't?



I was really surprised to see people coming out against it, tbh. And yeah, social media is definitely part of it. Nice to see it being used for something good.

People just have to be careful. If anything is done to stop Israel doing what they're doing, that it doesn't leave them vulnerable to other countries around them that might seek to capitalize on the situation. funny thing is, since 1066, England has never been ruled by another nation. The closest was William and Mary of Orange, but it was more of a peaceful transition than an actual rule or conflict. They became rulers of England, not the Dutch crown ruling England.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
Just make the entire middle east an irradiated wasteland and be done with it.

Saying boundless glass skating rink is more poetic.

Originally posted by Blakemore
funny thing is, since 1066, England has never been ruled by another nation. The closest was William and Mary of Orange, but it was more of a peaceful transition than an actual rule or conflict. They became rulers of England, not the Dutch crown ruling England.

Oh, trust me, I'm Irish. I know more than I'd like to about English history lol

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I think a lot more people are seeing it as it is and speaking out against Israel now than like 10 years ago.

Probably mostly due to social media. Palestinians can just film shit Thats happening and upload it.

Its mostly media bias and politicians and celebrities who refuse to say anything anti-Israel which gives the impression that no one gives a shit.

Hopefully one day the whole world stands up and says enough is enough, just like they did with the South African apartheid.

Film can be deceptive though.


Its easy to edit so one side looks like the aggressor. For example, you could film someone hitting another man in the nose, and omit the fact the person he hit clapped his girl on the rear.

Originally posted by cdtm
Film can be deceptive though.


Its easy to edit so one side looks like the aggressor. For example, you could film someone hitting another man in the nose, and omit the fact the person he hit clapped his girl on the rear. Oh, behave! Why all this conspiracy, gaslighting clap trap.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Oh, behave! Why all this conspiracy, gaslighting clap trap.

I'm simply pointing out video evidence isn't necessarily as damning as he thinks. We should be skeptical of video coming from one side.

That guy I was "gaslighting" got caught red handed, remember, so it does happen.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh, trust me, I'm Irish. I know more than I'd like to about English history lol The Betrayal of Clannabuidhe

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
The Betrayal of Clannabuidhe

One of many incidents. And I am not going through that list lol

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm simply pointing out video evidence isn't necessarily as damning as he thinks. We should be skeptical of video coming from one side.

That guy I was "gaslighting" got caught red handed, remember, so it does happen.

We should be skeptical, yes. But to a point.

There's no context in which, say, tossing a smoke grenade in to a group of people praying, needs to be re-examined for context.

Originally posted by -Pr-
One of many incidents. And I am not going through that list
Yup, the blood on British history is obscene. You realise most English people know none of that, it's like Americans and world geography, the English and their own colonial history. Very sad tbh.

Originally posted by -Pr-

People just have to be careful. If anything is done to stop Israel doing what they're doing, that it doesn't leave them vulnerable to other countries around them that might seek to capitalize on the situation.


Well Israel is by far the biggest power in the region and backed by the USA, so im really not worried about that.

But like I said the only real long term solution is a One State solution. So the country is shared by Jews and Palestinians. Added to the recent alliances Israel has made with Saudi and the UAE, and if they continue to make/keep good relations with neighbouring countries Then there would be no real reason or motive for neighbouring countries to invade.

Originally posted by cdtm
Film can be deceptive though.


Its easy to edit so one side looks like the aggressor. For example, you could film someone hitting another man in the nose, and omit the fact the person he hit clapped his girl on the rear.


Its more about getting both sides of the story. I dont recall for instance anyone claiming the Mosque raid was fake footage or made to seem like something else.

And the shift towards the truth can be seen with even the mainstream media being a lot more critical towards Israeli officials than they were in the past, and giving Palestinians their say.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Yup, the blood on British history is obscene. You realise most English people know none of that, it's like Americans and world geography, the English and their own colonial history. Very sad tbh.

Sure, but what can you do? As long as they're not a dick about it, most English people are fine.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well Israel is by far the biggest power in the region and backed by the USA, so im really not worried about that.

But like I said the only real long term solution is a One State solution. So the country is shared by Jews and Palestinians. Added to the recent alliances Israel has made with Saudi and the UAE, and if they continue to make/keep good relations with neighbouring countries Then there would be no real reason or motive for neighbouring countries to invade.

I had thought that too, but I had also thought that people weren't going to turn against Israel in the way that they have. I feel like anything could happen at this point. It might not be likely, sure, but I'm not feeling confident of anything right now.

https://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/3/31/1374308/-Ayn-Rand-v-Murray-Rothbard-A-deep-dive-into-the-Libertarian-view-of-Israel-Palestine

This article discusses the difference in opinion between rand and rothbard.

Im a rothbardian so I take his line of thinking here, rand as ever in a statist in minarchist clothes.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I had thought that too, but I had also thought that people weren't going to turn against Israel in the way that they have. I feel like anything could happen at this point. It might not be likely, sure, but I'm not feeling confident of anything right now.


I get that, but they are against them because of how badly they are treating the Palestinians.

If they decided to implement international law, and just generally treat the Palestinians anywhere close to how well they treat their own, then I doubt anyone would be against them. Aside from those who actually just are anti-semetic. But then the world wouldn't tolerate those individuals either.

Main problem is Israel is just too arrogant, and they won't change the way they are doing things, and if people turn against them, they will use all of their wealth, influence and military power to fight them.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Its more about getting both sides of the story. I dont recall for instance anyone claiming the Mosque raid was fake footage or made to seem like something else.

And the shift towards the truth can be seen with even the mainstream media being a lot more critical towards Israeli officials than they were in the past, and giving Palestinians their say.

The MSM was always hyper critical of Israel though. For whatever reason, it's Republicans who support Zionism, while Democrats are anti-Zionist.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I get that, but they are against them because of how badly they are treating the Palestinians.

If they decided to implement international law, and just generally treat the Palestinians anywhere close to how well they treat their own, then I doubt anyone would be against them. Aside from those who actually just are anti-semetic. But then the world wouldn't tolerate those individuals either.

Main problem is Israel is just too arrogant, and they won't change the way they are doing things, and if people turn against them, they will use all of their wealth, influence and military power to fight them.

That's the thing that gets me though: this has been going on for years. It's just recently ramped up, and for some reason now people are taking notice? Like this hasn't been happening for over a decade, but now people care?